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Why the Tories have LESS than a 90% chance of winning the Chesham and Amersham by-election – politic

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  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    All Greens are watermelons.
    Avocados are probably a more appropriate fruit
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,151

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    algarkirk said:

    isam said:

    In the Times Radio interview (Does anyone else follow them on twitter? Interesting stuff on there) John Curtice says Labour under Starmer have become too Conservative, and worried about upsetting voters, whilst Boris's Tories are radicals who are prepared to piss off their usual voters to get things done.

    Seems fair to me, but the biggest change in politics in my lifetime, one that I am no closer to understanding now that at any other time, is that the Labour Party, in allowing Freedom of Movement to the A8, put the low paid jobs of those the party was set up to look out for out to tender to millions of people who had a huge incentive to undercut them.

    Labour basically deregulated the Labour market in a way no right wing, free marketeer could have dreamed of getting away with, opening up gold mines for exploitative capitalists to the detriment of the working class, and their refusal to admit they made a mistake, or that it was any kind of big deal - let alone apologise - has led to Old Etonian, Bullingdon Boy Boris ripping through the northern heartlands like a bushfire.

    Curtice is right that pretending it never happened is not an option for Labour. How on earth they put the bloke in charge who was trying to stop the Leave vote being respected beggars belief

    Much truth in this. Assume for a moment that voters are sorts of spectrums, which can be described in a number of ways: from richest to poorest, from PhD to no qualifications; Remain and Rejoin to Ardent Hard Brexit and so on.

    To win general elections you need 40%+ of the spectrum to vote for you. More people cluster round the middle of the spectrum than anywhere else - that's a general law of maths and reality - we are mostly middling sorts.

    The best way of getting 40%+ to vote for you it to be around the middle, and you can shift your centre a fair way either side of the middle depending on circumstances.

    That's what Tories do. The hostility to them comes from some but not all of the ends of the spectrums: least and highest educated, most urban, richest and poorest, most remainy, the loony left the fascist right. None of it comes from the centre.

    IMHO they have shifted focus to move their spectrum so as to gain a lot of WWC and to lose Putney and Cambridge, but still occupy a central piece of the spectrum - from Henley to Hartlepool. All their opponents occupy smaller and detached chunks.

    One of the best examples is the West Midlands. For instance, Sutton Coldfield and Cannock Chase have totally different demographics but they're now both very safe Tory seats. Solihull and Newcastle-under-Lyme are another such pairing.
    Thanks. Yes. And I suggest that from Christchurch and South Holland to Hartlepool and Mansfield, while truly different, they are part of the same spectrum of middling sorts without passionately strong political convictions but all sorts of loyalties in common; that Labour has abandoned its huge spectrum, and the Tories have shifted along to fill it, losing Canterbury, Putney, Oxford, London, Bristol on the way. But middle England is colossal. Look at the political map!

    That's all well and good but the government must deliver and not take "middle England" for granted.
    Spot on. Labour took its quiet middle ground for granted. The Tories will be abandoned fast if either it fails to be serious about middle England (especially the north where I live!) or if Labour find a way, which they obviously could and should, of making a better and more convincing offer to the voters. The voter is never wrong (axiom) and is not a fool (fact).

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,465
    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    Yes, and - delightfully - kinabalu himself seems unaware that he comes across as a sneering, narcissistic pillock, as do so many Lefties. Their sense of moral superiority OOZES like Housman's "morbid excrescence".

    Which in turn makes people vote for Anyone but the Left.
    I only come across like that to those lacking intellect and perception.

    Everyone else loves me. :smile:
    Oh I know this story! You may have convinced yourself that, but we can see you're wearing no clothes.
    Not sure I'm comfortable with you mentally undressing me, Philip.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,226

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    Are they centre left
    Most Green parties are centre-left.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,014
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The Indian strain is "vaccine resistant"

    Are we being cued up for an eternal quasi-lockdown?

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/indian-covid-strain-declared-global-concern-data-show-its-vaccine-resistant

    No.
    The story is wrong but there ARE people pushing for an eternal quasi-lockdown. Masks on public transport, all through next winter.

    If they want masks why not a juicy dollop of social distancing? I can see that too. Oh let's close theatres in the winter. And cinemas. Too dangerous!

    We cannot let them normalise this shit
    Reposting this from earlier today to calm you down...

    Vaccination boosts naturally enhanced neutralizing breadth to SARS-CoV-2 one year after infection
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.07.443175v1
    Over one year after its inception, the coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19) pandemic caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) remains difficult to control despite the availability of several excellent vaccines. Progress in controlling the pandemic is slowed by the emergence of variants that appear to be more transmissible and more resistant to antibodies. Here we report on a cohort of 63 COVID-19-convalescent individuals assessed at 1.3, 6.2 and 12 months after infection, 41% of whom also received mRNA vaccines. In the absence of vaccination antibody reactivity to the receptor binding domain (RBD) of SARS-CoV-2, neutralizing activity and the number of RBD-specific memory B cells remain relatively stable from 6 to 12 months. Vaccination increases all components of the humoral response, and as expected, results in serum neutralizing activities against variants of concern that are comparable to or greater than neutralizing activity against the original Wuhan Hu-1 achieved by vaccination of naive individuals. The mechanism underlying these broad-based responses involves ongoing antibody somatic mutation, memory B cell clonal turnover, and development of monoclonal antibodies that are exceptionally resistant to SARS-CoV-2 RBD mutations, including those found in variants of concern. In addition, B cell clones expressing broad and potent antibodies are selectively retained in the repertoire over time and expand dramatically after vaccination. The data suggest that immunity in convalescent individuals will be very long lasting and that convalescent individuals who receive available mRNA vaccines will produce antibodies and memory B cells that should be protective against circulating SARS-CoV-2 variants. Should memory responses evolve in a similar manner in vaccinated individuals, additional appropriately timed boosting with available vaccines could cover most circulating variants of concern.

    Government might well encourage those over the age of (say) 50 to get booster shots this autumn with the second generation vaccines.
    it would certainly be sensible for the over 65s.

    I don't see that as any more of a big deal than the normal annual flu shot.
    Booster shots, fine. All good


    And I have no doubts Boris would like to get rid of every restriction tomorrow, if he could. We already know he was prepared to see "the bodies piled high" to avoid another lockdown

    What worries me is that he is surrounded and advised by nannying scientists, the sort of middlebrow pearl-clutchers who want to Prohibit alcohol - as any drink is a risk - and who love to lecture and police the silly public.
    Except he's the blooming Prime Minister. Whatever happened to "advisers advise, ministers decide"? Unless his confidence in this matter is shot by the previous failures.

    Which leads to a practical question. On numbers, France (say) is currently running about 8 weeks behind the UK on vaccinations. Let's say they speed up a bit and finish about 6 weeks behind the UK (early June and mid July f'rexample). I've seen here the suggestion that Pfizer gets to work noticeably faster than AZ. And the UK is delaying the Great Unlocking because of previous traumas.

    What do folks reckon will be the UK lead on returning to normality?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,455
    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    The population of California overall has fallen for the first time in history.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-drop/index.html
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    True Confessions - am a trifle burnt-out re: election. Enjoyed the fun across the DisUnited Kingdom over this weekend PLUS the Texas 6th CD special election last week.

    Think Leon could have written this song. Or was it Jack W?

    Daryle Singletary - Too Much Fun
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7GQRMwpbVk
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,151

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    All Greens are watermelons.
    Avocados are probably a more appropriate fruit
    Good luck with the exams.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,668

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    I thought that when you were backing Corbyn's Labour, not anymore.

    Indeed I hope that you could be a Tory voter in a few years time. 👍
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,226
    edited May 10

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    Are they centre left
    Ideology Green politics[2]
    . Pro-Europeanism[3]
    Political position Centre-left[4][5]
    European affiliation European Green Party
    International affiliation Global Greens
    European Parliament group Greens/EFA

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_90/The_Greens
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,660

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    The terminally stupid have on occasion labelled me 'far right' and a 'leftie'.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,787
    edited May 10
    Germany. Some interesting preferred Chancellor polling.
    Scholz (SDP) 46 Laschet (CDU) 43.
    Laschet 46 Baerbock (Green) 44.
    Scholz 45 Baerbock 43.

    Yet in 3 way polls it is Baerbock 28 Scholz 21 Laschet 21.
    Baerbock won all 12 such 3 way polls since candidates announced.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512

    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    The population of California overall has fallen for the first time in history.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-drop/index.html
    Aren't they all moving to Arizona and Utah?

    I swear loads of American "influencers" suddenly live in Salt Lake City.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    The terminally stupid have on occasion labelled me 'far right' and a 'leftie'.
    If the Corbyn years taught me anything it is that the left is full of right wingers, apparently. I think only half the time did they mean people were right wing 'for a leftie' rather than actually being right wing.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,193
    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,226
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    All Greens are watermelons.
    Don’t overlook the mangos.
    LibDems are banana yellow!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,047
    edited May 10

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    Aye, with policies like this:

    Police officers need better and more intensive training to protect all basic and human rights, such as freedom of the press, or in the fight against racism. That must become one of the main contents of police training. And it means: a social pluralism must be reflected in the composition of the police to a greater extent than before.

    All people have the exclusive right to define their own gender. Intersexual, transsexual and non-binary people have the right to have their self-defined gender officially recognized without bureaucratic or medical hurdles. Self-determination requires comprehensive protection from violence.

    Germany's colonial past has been dealt with far too little in the cultural sphere as well. Extensive research is needed on the origin of objects collected and intangible cultural assets from colonial contexts, their return to the societies of origin, and the decolonization of cultural institutions and the public domain. This can only be done in close cooperation with the descendants of the formerly colonized, domestically as well as internationally.

    Racism is an undeniable reality in our society and is more or less present in all structures. Racism - and every other form of group-related hostility towards people - means that many people in Germany are not safe.
    The whole draft manifesto is here:
    https://cms.gruene.de/uploads/documents/2021_Wahlprogrammentwurf.pdf

    Stuff like balanced govt budget, not leaving Nato, C02 targets which are getting a bit closer to catching up to ours etc.

    There are more UK Green like parties starting to emerge outboard from the Gruene.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493
    edited May 10
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    I don't think that actually. This is bespoke for @isam.

    Seems everybody bar him is answering.
    I believe it is exactly what you think hence the bafflement with @isam.
    An occasional "bafflement with isam" is something you and I have in common tbf. Just that it's not exactly the same thing which does the baffling.
    Oh god mate just relax. We're far too dumb for your intricate games. I mean if they give you comfort then by all means crack on but it's quite tiring for us and surely must be for you also.

    You even edited that four line pithy post.

    How about this: you win PB. Does that help?
    I really don't know what your problem is.

    I'm simply probing someone and something. Here we have a PB poster (isam) who is working class and used to vote Labour. He then got so livid about free movement and its impact on his main concern - the living standards of the low paid - that he voted Leave and then Tory to deliver Leave.

    Ok. So it's now done. We've left. Free movement is over. But he is STILL incredibly anti Labour. I'm curious as to why and have therefore asked him. If you and others don't find this interesting, fine, just babble on about some other shit.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    I don't think that actually. This is bespoke for @isam.

    Seems everybody bar him is answering.
    I kind of revel in it, because I have said for ages that Boris would swat Sir Keir away when it came to election time, and it seems to be the case. I used to vote Labour, I voted Tory last time, so I am not loyal to any party. Detatching myself from it I just think it would be funny if he pretended he'd wallpapered Downing St with opinion polls showing it didnt concern the public
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,787
    MattW said:

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    Aye, with policies like this:

    Police officers need better and more intensive training to protect all basic and human rights, such as freedom of the press, or in the fight against racism. That must become one of the main contents of police training. And it means: a social pluralism must be reflected in the composition of the police to a greater extent than before.

    All people have the exclusive right to define their own gender. Intersexual, transsexual and non-binary people have the right to have their self-defined gender officially recognized without bureaucratic or medical hurdles. Self-determination requires comprehensive protection from violence.

    Germany's colonial past has been dealt with far too little in the cultural sphere as well. Extensive research is needed on the origin of objects collected and intangible cultural assets from colonial contexts, their return to the societies of origin, and the decolonization of cultural institutions and the public domain. This can only be done in close cooperation with the descendants of the formerly colonized, domestically as well as internationally.

    Racism is an undeniable reality in our society and is more or less present in all structures. Racism - and every other form of group-related hostility towards people - means that many people in Germany are not safe.
    The whole draft manifesto is here:
    https://cms.gruene.de/uploads/documents/2021_Wahlprogrammentwurf.pdf

    Stuff like balanced govt budget, not leaving Nato, C02 targets which are getting a bit closer to catching up to ours etc.
    The combination of the policies you highlight, and the ones Gallowgate outlines probably puts them on the centre left...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,455

    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    The population of California overall has fallen for the first time in history.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-drop/index.html
    Aren't they all moving to Arizona and Utah?

    I swear loads of American "influencers" suddenly live in Salt Lake City.
    There's a large number of mid-sized affluent, safe cities dotted across the US. I can see why it's an attractive option for people to move out of the expensive coastal hubs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483

    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    The population of California overall has fallen for the first time in history.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-drop/index.html
    America's birthrate has cratered, as well


    "U.S. birth rates continue to decline, are now below replacement levels"

    https://www.salon.com/2021/05/07/us-birth-rates-continue-to-decline-are-now-below-replacement-levels/


    The pandemic has accelerated and created trends in all areas of life and sociopolitics, some of them are absolutely momentous, but we won't realise the scale of it, for years.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,296
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    I don't think that actually. This is bespoke for @isam.

    Seems everybody bar him is answering.
    I believe it is exactly what you think hence the bafflement with @isam.
    An occasional "bafflement with isam" is something you and I have in common tbf. Just that it's not exactly the same thing which does the baffling.
    Oh god mate just relax. We're far too dumb for your intricate games. I mean if they give you comfort then by all means crack on but it's quite tiring for us and surely must be for you also.

    You even edited that four line pithy post.

    How about this: you win PB. Does that help?
    I really don't know what your problem is.

    I'm simply probing someone and something. Here we have somebody (isam) who is working class and used to vote Labour. He then got so livid about free movement and its impact on his main concern - the living standards of the low paid - that he voted Leave and then Tory to deliver Leave.

    Ok. So it's now done. We've left. Free movement is over. But he is STILL incredibly anti Labour. I'm curious as to why and have therefore asked him. If you and others don't find this interesting, fine. Just babble on about some other shit.
    Yep that's it. What happened to your beers?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,120
    edited May 10
    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    He had 4 failed test in a 6 month period a couple of years ago. Seems American racing is weak on doping in a way I find rather surprising.

    Lots of slap on the wrist fines and n consequences.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 5,196
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    In the Times Radio interview (Does anyone else follow them on twitter? Interesting stuff on there) John Curtice says Labour under Starmer have become too Conservative, and worried about upsetting voters, whilst Boris's Tories are radicals who are prepared to piss off their usual voters to get things done.

    Seems fair to me, but the biggest change in politics in my lifetime, one that I am no closer to understanding now that at any other time, is that the Labour Party, in allowing Freedom of Movement to the A8, put the low paid jobs of those the party was set up to look out for out to tender to millions of people who had a huge incentive to undercut them.

    Labour basically deregulated the Labour market in a way no right wing, free marketeer could have dreamed of getting away with, opening up gold mines for exploitative capitalists to the detriment of the working class, and their refusal to admit they made a mistake, or that it was any kind of big deal - let alone apologise - has led to Old Etonian, Bullingdon Boy Boris ripping through the northern heartlands like a bushfire.

    Curtice is right that pretending it never happened is not an option for Labour. How on earth they put the bloke in charge who was trying to stop the Leave vote being respected beggars belief

    You don't scan for me.

    With your views on free movement I get completely why you'd vote Leave and then vote Tory to see it implemented. But what I don't understand, given your professed driver of concern for the material betterment of the low paid, is why you'd still now, with Brexit done, be pro-Tory and so incredibly anti-Labour.

    There is no way, no way on earth, the Tories can be considered better on this issue than Labour. Just look at their respective records and manifestos since year dot. Even the Blair government who you castigate for free movement. Ok, they allowed that, but they also (against Tory opposition) brought in the minimum wage. You really think the positive impact of this on the low paid didn't dwarf that of free movement? C'mon.

    It makes no sense, the way Starmer and Labour can do nothing right for you and Johnson's mob no wrong. There's something else going on. It's bugging me. So tell me please.
    IN a number of industries and skills, the minimum wage has simply become the norm. Previously quite a few such trades and jobs were quite well paid.

    If you'd talked to a few of the people who moved from trade to trade as their wages continuously fell, you know where alot of support for Brexit came from.
    Yes, I'm sure. But the minimum wage was an iconic policy to help the low paid and it came from Labour against Tory opposition. And free movement is gone. So why would somebody whose main voting driver is the material betterment of the low paid be so virulently against the Labour Party now? This is what I'm probing.
    The Tories introduced the Living Wage and have continued to increase it annually. The Living Wage under the Tories is in real terms much more than Labour's Minimum Wage.
    They've done ok-to-fine on the LW/MW. But look, I don't have the time for a torrid tumble with you right now and that's nothing but a literal fact. Cheers and beers.
    How are they on VHF?
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,053

    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    The population of California overall has fallen for the first time in history.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-drop/index.html
    Aren't they all moving to Arizona and Utah?

    I swear loads of American "influencers" suddenly live in Salt Lake City.
    Utah is very friendly to MLM schemes, which obviously aren’t pyramid schemes or Ponzi.

    https://www.kuer.org/business-labor/2019-12-30/why-is-utah-home-to-so-many-ponzi-schemes
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,668
    edited May 10
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    I don't think that actually. This is bespoke for @isam.

    Seems everybody bar him is answering.
    I believe it is exactly what you think hence the bafflement with @isam.
    An occasional "bafflement with isam" is something you and I have in common tbf. Just that it's not exactly the same thing which does the baffling.
    Oh god mate just relax. We're far too dumb for your intricate games. I mean if they give you comfort then by all means crack on but it's quite tiring for us and surely must be for you also.

    You even edited that four line pithy post.

    How about this: you win PB. Does that help?
    I really don't know what your problem is.

    I'm simply probing someone and something. Here we have a PB poster (isam) who is working class and used to vote Labour. He then got so livid about free movement and its impact on his main concern - the living standards of the low paid - that he voted Leave and then Tory to deliver Leave.

    Ok. So it's now done. We've left. Free movement is over. But he is STILL incredibly anti Labour. I'm curious as to why and have therefore asked him. If you and others don't find this interesting, fine, just babble on about some other shit.
    You know what else is done? The minimum wage. Its done, below minimum wages are over. But you think people should STILL vote Labour because of it 24 years later.

    If the most recent dividing line was on the Tories favour, why overturn that because of a different one that was over a quarter of a century ago?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,455
    This is the guy who's usually quoted to show that the US is backing the EU on Northern Ireland. He's an anti-British fanatic.

    "@RepKevinBoyle
    It’s known in US national security circles large segments of the Irish media & some politicians have been compromised by British intelligence. Long overdue that some of them are being exposed or soon will be."


    https://twitter.com/RepKevinBoyle/status/1391746352888025090
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 35,663

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    The terminally stupid have on occasion labelled me 'far right' and a 'leftie'.
    They’ve worked out you’re an extremist, but can’t fathom which way you swing?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,660
    edited May 10

    This is the guy who's usually quoted to show that the US is backing the EU on Northern Ireland. He's an anti-British fanatic.

    "@RepKevinBoyle
    It’s known in US national security circles large segments of the Irish media & some politicians have been compromised by British intelligence. Long overdue that some of them are being exposed or soon will be."


    https://twitter.com/RepKevinBoyle/status/1391746352888025090

    God, he's more deluded on that than Enoch Powell.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512
    MattW said:

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    Aye, with policies like this:

    Police officers need better and more intensive training to protect all basic and human rights, such as freedom of the press, or in the fight against racism. That must become one of the main contents of police training. And it means: a social pluralism must be reflected in the composition of the police to a greater extent than before.

    All people have the exclusive right to define their own gender. Intersexual, transsexual and non-binary people have the right to have their self-defined gender officially recognized without bureaucratic or medical hurdles. Self-determination requires comprehensive protection from violence.

    Germany's colonial past has been dealt with far too little in the cultural sphere as well. Extensive research is needed on the origin of objects collected and intangible cultural assets from colonial contexts, their return to the societies of origin, and the decolonization of cultural institutions and the public domain. This can only be done in close cooperation with the descendants of the formerly colonized, domestically as well as internationally.

    Racism is an undeniable reality in our society and is more or less present in all structures. Racism - and every other form of group-related hostility towards people - means that many people in Germany are not safe.
    The whole draft manifesto is here:
    https://cms.gruene.de/uploads/documents/2021_Wahlprogrammentwurf.pdf

    Stuff like balanced govt budget, not leaving Nato, C02 targets which are getting a bit closer to catching up to ours etc.

    There are more UK Green like parties starting to emerge outboard from the Gruene.
    Quite.

    We will expand research on discrimination and racism, in particular collect anti-discrimination and equality data, and conduct independent scientific studies on government institutions. We want to anchor anti-racism, anti-discrimination and post-colonialism in curricula.

    We will raise awareness of the continuities of colonialism through a central place of remembrance and learning and thus promote a broad social debate about our colonial heritage, which is not limited to the return of cultural goods, but enables an anti-racist perspective on history and society . At the same time, the German culture of remembrance must open up to the experiences and stories of the people who immigrated to Germany, and the memorial concept must be further developed accordingly.

    With a self-determination law we will ensure that the outdated transsexual law is finally repealed. We will make it possible to change the gender specification at the request of the person concerned and specify the prohibition of disclosure.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 8,650
    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    That sort of bad luck is spookily common. The usual story is the groom was taking the banned substance and had a pee in the stable.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,660
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    The terminally stupid have on occasion labelled me 'far right' and a 'leftie'.
    They’ve worked out you’re an extremist, but can’t fathom which way you swing?
    Absolutely, my favourites are those who think I'm an Islamophobe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,806
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    The Indian strain is "vaccine resistant"

    Are we being cued up for an eternal quasi-lockdown?

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/indian-covid-strain-declared-global-concern-data-show-its-vaccine-resistant

    Hmm, I have read the opposite elsewhere that it doesn't show major immune escape and a care home which had an outbreak of this variant saw no deaths and no major symptoms with 15 infections among the vaccinated.
    As the article,says good news for a Pfizer. They will be able to tweak the vaccine.

    Zero Hedge seems to be a little alarmist.
    Zerohedge is not a little alarmist

    Zerohedge is a contrarian shit stirrer funded by dodgy Russian money that delights in spreading fear and panic among credulous westerners like @Leon
    It's also founded and run by a convicted insider trader who is banned from working in the Securities Industry.

    Plus, the allegations that they receive money from hedge funds for running stories on stocks (to help send the price in one direction or the other) are pretty credible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915

    This is the guy who's usually quoted to show that the US is backing the EU on Northern Ireland. He's an anti-British fanatic.

    "@RepKevinBoyle
    It’s known in US national security circles large segments of the Irish media & some politicians have been compromised by British intelligence. Long overdue that some of them are being exposed or soon will be."


    https://twitter.com/RepKevinBoyle/status/1391746352888025090

    As is ever the case with these sorts of things, the replies to the tweet are a hoot.

    Frankly I think MI6 need to up their game, as the UK didn't eactly get an easy ride from Irish media or politicians in recent years.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,185
    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 14,787
    IshmaelZ said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    That sort of bad luck is spookily common. The usual story is the groom was taking the banned substance and had a pee in the stable.
    Given that you might think
    DO NOT PISS IN THE STABLES!!
    Would be prominent in the job description.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    I don't think that actually. This is bespoke for @isam.

    Seems everybody bar him is answering.
    I kind of revel in it, because I have said for ages that Boris would swat Sir Keir away when it came to election time, and it seems to be the case. I used to vote Labour, I voted Tory last time, so I am not loyal to any party. Detatching myself from it I just think it would be funny if he pretended he'd wallpapered Downing St with opinion polls showing it didnt concern the public
    Well that's always a thrill, being proved right. But this aside, now that Brexit is done and Free Movement is over, why are you - a person of the left and who used to vote Labour - still so anti-Labour?

    This is what I'm interested to hear.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,668
    edited May 10

    This is the guy who's usually quoted to show that the US is backing the EU on Northern Ireland. He's an anti-British fanatic.

    "@RepKevinBoyle
    It’s known in US national security circles large segments of the Irish media & some politicians have been compromised by British intelligence. Long overdue that some of them are being exposed or soon will be."


    https://twitter.com/RepKevinBoyle/status/1391746352888025090

    Scrolling through his Tweets the overwhelming majority of them seem to be about Britain/Ireland. Almost nothing on issues for his own constituents.

    Like the Labour extremists always banging on about Palestine.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,193
    Evening all :)

    No surprises from the Prime Minister this afternoon. The "roadmap" remains firmly on course and next week I'll be able to avoid hugging anyone in my cafe in the Barking Road as I enjoy a full English and the Racing Post in peace.

    To be an introvert in a summer where the frustrated extrovert is king !!

    Never mind.

    The dance between Sturgeon and Johnson continues - she demands a referendum she doesn't really want and relies on him refusing her every time. It works so well for them both.

    The Redfield-Wilton poll numbers this evening show for all the huffing and puffing, there's been no change since December 2019 (ok, LDs down four, Greens up two and Labour up one so not much change).

    In Germany, the latest INSA poll shows the Union two points in front of the Greens (25.5 to 23.5) but of perhaps lesser significance, the first Spanish poll since the Madrid regional election has the PP in front for the first time for quite a while. PP are on 30% (+7) with PSOE on 26% (-1) and VOX on 15% (-2). There's no big swing from any party - just a small move from each of them so it may be frothier than it looks but Casado will at least think he's back in with a real chance in 2023.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 35,663
    A woman in Tuscany is under observation after she was given six doses of the Pfizer vaccine by mistake....
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,512

    This is the guy who's usually quoted to show that the US is backing the EU on Northern Ireland. He's an anti-British fanatic.

    "@RepKevinBoyle
    It’s known in US national security circles large segments of the Irish media & some politicians have been compromised by British intelligence. Long overdue that some of them are being exposed or soon will be."


    https://twitter.com/RepKevinBoyle/status/1391746352888025090

    Scrolling through his Tweets the overwhelming majority of them seem to be about Britain/Ireland. Almost nothing on issues for his own constituents.

    Like the Labour extremists always banging on about Palestine.
    The German Greens do have a fairly moderate position on Palestine.

    Germany has a historical responsibility to Israel. The existence and security of Israel as the national home of the Jewish people with equal rights for all its citizens are non-negotiable. The continuation of close relations as well as peace and stability in the Middle East are central concerns of German foreign and security policy. We condemn the growing threat to Israel in its neighborhood. The security situation in the region is fragile and must not be escalated any further. Unilateral measures such as the annexation of occupied territories or the ongoing construction of settlements contrary to international law run counter to the goal of a peaceful and political solution to the conflict. For peace and security, a two-state regulation with two sovereign, viable and democratic states for Israelis and Palestinians is required. The announced elections in the Palestinian territories are a positive sign. We want to use the opportunity offered by Israel's political and economic agreements with Arab states to revive a multilateral peace process and to create long-term peace in the region. To this end, Europe should coordinate closely with the new US administration.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 8,650
    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    That sort of bad luck is spookily common. The usual story is the groom was taking the banned substance and had a pee in the stable.
    Given that you might think
    DO NOT PISS IN THE STABLES!!
    Would be prominent in the job description.
    Everybody pisses in stables

    And your rule would ruin the excuse
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,806

    Centre-left vote in Europe

    UK
    Lowest since 1935

    Austria
    Lowest since 1911

    Germany
    Lowest since 1932

    France
    Lowest ever

    Italy
    Lowest ever

    N'lands
    Lowest ever

    Sweden
    Lowest since 1908

    Finland
    2nd lowest

    Spain
    3rd lowest since democracy

    Maybe it's not Brexit or Starmer?
    5:15 PM · May 10, 2021·Twitter Web App

    And how does it look if you do Center Left + Green?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,186
    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    The terminally stupid have on occasion labelled me 'far right' and a 'leftie'.
    If the Corbyn years taught me anything it is that the left is full of right wingers, apparently. I think only half the time did they mean people were right wing 'for a leftie' rather than actually being right wing.
    Aaron Bastani only yesterday said the new shadow chancellor was more right wing than Sunak

    Oh and Nandy was a neocon.....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 14,989
    Our new Metro Mayor was interviewed on Look North.

    Wor Lass "She comes across as very genuine."

    Me "Remember she's an actor!"

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    The Indian strain is "vaccine resistant"

    Are we being cued up for an eternal quasi-lockdown?

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/indian-covid-strain-declared-global-concern-data-show-its-vaccine-resistant

    Hmm, I have read the opposite elsewhere that it doesn't show major immune escape and a care home which had an outbreak of this variant saw no deaths and no major symptoms with 15 infections among the vaccinated.
    As the article,says good news for a Pfizer. They will be able to tweak the vaccine.

    Zero Hedge seems to be a little alarmist.
    Zerohedge is not a little alarmist

    Zerohedge is a contrarian shit stirrer funded by dodgy Russian money that delights in spreading fear and panic among credulous westerners like @Leon
    It's also founded and run by a convicted insider trader who is banned from working in the Securities Industry.

    Plus, the allegations that they receive money from hedge funds for running stories on stocks (to help send the price in one direction or the other) are pretty credible.
    Didn't Horatio Bottomley MP do the same thing, a century ago?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,300

    Centre-left vote in Europe

    UK
    Lowest since 1935

    Austria
    Lowest since 1911

    Germany
    Lowest since 1932

    France
    Lowest ever

    Italy
    Lowest ever

    N'lands
    Lowest ever

    Sweden
    Lowest since 1908

    Finland
    2nd lowest

    Spain
    3rd lowest since democracy

    Maybe it's not Brexit or Starmer?
    5:15 PM · May 10, 2021·Twitter Web App

    That's one way of looking at it, Another is that we are all run by centre left parties now because all governments are centre left,

    A bit more spending on this priority here, a bit more regulation of this thing here, o and we will make that risky thing a bit harder. Doesn't matter what the policy area is, just a little more international co-operation and a bit more supervision of local/regional governments, then when things don't get better, a bit more spending on this priorate, a bit more regulation and so on. no big nationalisation and no big privatisations, no big sweeping reforms, just ever but slowly expanding regulations, and borrowing.

    Maybe i'm being cynical, but with a few rare exceptions (BREXIT, Pot Legalisation) the direction and speed of travel around the would IS that which centre left party's would be doing, Centre left parties may be doing badly but that's because all party's have become centre left.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,226
    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    German Greens are indeed Centre-left.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    I don't think that actually. This is bespoke for @isam.

    Seems everybody bar him is answering.
    I believe it is exactly what you think hence the bafflement with @isam.
    An occasional "bafflement with isam" is something you and I have in common tbf. Just that it's not exactly the same thing which does the baffling.
    Oh god mate just relax. We're far too dumb for your intricate games. I mean if they give you comfort then by all means crack on but it's quite tiring for us and surely must be for you also.

    You even edited that four line pithy post.

    How about this: you win PB. Does that help?
    I really don't know what your problem is.

    I'm simply probing someone and something. Here we have somebody (isam) who is working class and used to vote Labour. He then got so livid about free movement and its impact on his main concern - the living standards of the low paid - that he voted Leave and then Tory to deliver Leave.

    Ok. So it's now done. We've left. Free movement is over. But he is STILL incredibly anti Labour. I'm curious as to why and have therefore asked him. If you and others don't find this interesting, fine. Just babble on about some other shit.
    Yep that's it. What happened to your beers?
    "Yep that's it".

    Hmm. I think I'd better check.

    So you do now grasp how my question to isam does not imply that I think Conservatives by definition can't or don't care about the poor, yes?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,193
    I have to say Mrs Stodge is seething tonight.

    Not, I stress, because Count Binfa-ce didn't quite make it to the London Mayoralty.

    It seems Transport for London, in their infinite wisdom, has decided to celebrate our "freedom" by instigating six successive weekends of engineering works on our tube lines.

    Her view is they've had plenty of time to do all this work while no one has been travelling and such work should be suspended through the summer to allow people to get out and about.

    Speaking of "freedom", I saw some anti-lockdown graffiti on one of our local bus stops from an organisation calling itself the "White Rose". Now, I'm sure that isn't a reference to some English county but it's insulting to the real heroes and heroines of the White Rose in Munich during WW2.

    Fortunately, no one takes the British incarnation seriously.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,226
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    The terminally stupid have on occasion labelled me 'far right' and a 'leftie'.
    They’ve worked out you’re an extremist, but can’t fathom which way you swing?
    TSE = "Tory-Supporting Europhile".
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    dixiedean said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    And where does UK lowest since 1935 come from?
    I think he is mixing and matching vote shares in elections and opinions as well as actual seats.

    2019 was Labour's worst performance in seats since 1935.
    Though not in England - 1983 and 1987 were both weaker performances by Labour there.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,063

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    Londonpubman thinks everyone is hard left.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,455
    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,268
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    He reckons the groom pissed on the hay the horse ate and the cough medicine subsequently showed up in it.

    i) Hay is normally hung up
    ii) If you take a piss in a horse's stable it's generally onto the straw.
    iii) This is an animal worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, you aren't going to piss on it's hay.
    iv) The horse wouldn't eat the pissed on hay.
    v) Even if the horse did eat the pissed on hay with the groom's cough syrup the amount of steroid coming back through the horses' own piss would be infintesimal.
    Maybe it was a candidate for mare of London, and therefore drank piss ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,268

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    All Greens are watermelons.
    Avocados are probably a more appropriate fruit
    All heavily stoned ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493
    edited May 10

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    I don't think that actually. This is bespoke for @isam.

    Seems everybody bar him is answering.
    I believe it is exactly what you think hence the bafflement with @isam.
    An occasional "bafflement with isam" is something you and I have in common tbf. Just that it's not exactly the same thing which does the baffling.
    Oh god mate just relax. We're far too dumb for your intricate games. I mean if they give you comfort then by all means crack on but it's quite tiring for us and surely must be for you also.

    You even edited that four line pithy post.

    How about this: you win PB. Does that help?
    I really don't know what your problem is.

    I'm simply probing someone and something. Here we have a PB poster (isam) who is working class and used to vote Labour. He then got so livid about free movement and its impact on his main concern - the living standards of the low paid - that he voted Leave and then Tory to deliver Leave.

    Ok. So it's now done. We've left. Free movement is over. But he is STILL incredibly anti Labour. I'm curious as to why and have therefore asked him. If you and others don't find this interesting, fine, just babble on about some other shit.
    You know what else is done? The minimum wage. Its done, below minimum wages are over. But you think people should STILL vote Labour because of it 24 years later.

    If the most recent dividing line was on the Tories favour, why overturn that because of a different one that was over a quarter of a century ago?
    Philip, can I please just have this conversation that I'm trying to have with this working class ex Labour Leave voter who now really dislikes the party. We'll chat later, I promise.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,268

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    The terminally stupid have on occasion labelled me 'far right' and a 'leftie'.
    Were they just suggesting you’re deeply confused ?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,465
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    That sort of bad luck is spookily common. The usual story is the groom was taking the banned substance and had a pee in the stable.
    Given that you might think
    DO NOT PISS IN THE STABLES!!
    Would be prominent in the job description.
    Everybody pisses in stables

    And your rule would ruin the excuse
    Only in other peoples. I take a pee in the fields...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    The population of California overall has fallen for the first time in history.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-drop/index.html
    Aren't they all moving to Arizona and Utah?

    I swear loads of American "influencers" suddenly live in Salt Lake City.
    Utah is very friendly to MLM schemes, which obviously aren’t pyramid schemes or Ponzi.

    https://www.kuer.org/business-labor/2019-12-30/why-is-utah-home-to-so-many-ponzi-schemes
    One component of Utah's over-performance re: this indicator, is the affinity scam angle. That is, good Mormons getting hooked and reeling in family & fellow LDS (or whatever the Church wants you to call it & them). Not limited to one faith group, even in Utah.

    Note that recent report said Washington State was #1 target for romance scams. Plenty of pale, lonely, passive-aggressive geeks out here, feeling the infamous Seattle Chill.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    How have we ended up with a by-election in Scotland a week or so after a full slate of elections? That’s a waste of public money. Surely he’d already quit as an MP and therefore why could the elections not be on the same day? Can’t be the SNP’s fault (the incumbent usually decides right?) since they would have had every incentive to do it last Thursday and surf the tide.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 43,651
    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Greens here should prepare to be infiltrated by the Cult now that there's been a bit of surge.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,484
    IanB2 said:

    A woman in Tuscany is under observation after she was given six doses of the Pfizer vaccine by mistake....

    Does she look like this yet?

    https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2020/11/21/03/41/medusa-5763007_1280.jpg
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,493

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    In the Times Radio interview (Does anyone else follow them on twitter? Interesting stuff on there) John Curtice says Labour under Starmer have become too Conservative, and worried about upsetting voters, whilst Boris's Tories are radicals who are prepared to piss off their usual voters to get things done.

    Seems fair to me, but the biggest change in politics in my lifetime, one that I am no closer to understanding now that at any other time, is that the Labour Party, in allowing Freedom of Movement to the A8, put the low paid jobs of those the party was set up to look out for out to tender to millions of people who had a huge incentive to undercut them.

    Labour basically deregulated the Labour market in a way no right wing, free marketeer could have dreamed of getting away with, opening up gold mines for exploitative capitalists to the detriment of the working class, and their refusal to admit they made a mistake, or that it was any kind of big deal - let alone apologise - has led to Old Etonian, Bullingdon Boy Boris ripping through the northern heartlands like a bushfire.

    Curtice is right that pretending it never happened is not an option for Labour. How on earth they put the bloke in charge who was trying to stop the Leave vote being respected beggars belief

    You don't scan for me.

    With your views on free movement I get completely why you'd vote Leave and then vote Tory to see it implemented. But what I don't understand, given your professed driver of concern for the material betterment of the low paid, is why you'd still now, with Brexit done, be pro-Tory and so incredibly anti-Labour.

    There is no way, no way on earth, the Tories can be considered better on this issue than Labour. Just look at their respective records and manifestos since year dot. Even the Blair government who you castigate for free movement. Ok, they allowed that, but they also (against Tory opposition) brought in the minimum wage. You really think the positive impact of this on the low paid didn't dwarf that of free movement? C'mon.

    It makes no sense, the way Starmer and Labour can do nothing right for you and Johnson's mob no wrong. There's something else going on. It's bugging me. So tell me please.
    IN a number of industries and skills, the minimum wage has simply become the norm. Previously quite a few such trades and jobs were quite well paid.

    If you'd talked to a few of the people who moved from trade to trade as their wages continuously fell, you know where alot of support for Brexit came from.
    Yes, I'm sure. But the minimum wage was an iconic policy to help the low paid and it came from Labour against Tory opposition. And free movement is gone. So why would somebody whose main voting driver is the material betterment of the low paid be so virulently against the Labour Party now? This is what I'm probing.
    The Tories introduced the Living Wage and have continued to increase it annually. The Living Wage under the Tories is in real terms much more than Labour's Minimum Wage.
    They've done ok-to-fine on the LW/MW. But look, I don't have the time for a torrid tumble with you right now and that's nothing but a literal fact. Cheers and beers.
    How are they on VHF?
    :smile: - Very weak indeed. Can hardly hear a word about their concern for the low paid on there.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,606
    stodge said:

    I have to say Mrs Stodge is seething tonight.

    Not, I stress, because Count Binfa-ce didn't quite make it to the London Mayoralty.

    It seems Transport for London, in their infinite wisdom, has decided to celebrate our "freedom" by instigating six successive weekends of engineering works on our tube lines.

    Her view is they've had plenty of time to do all this work while no one has been travelling and such work should be suspended through the summer to allow people to get out and about.

    Speaking of "freedom", I saw some anti-lockdown graffiti on one of our local bus stops from an organisation calling itself the "White Rose". Now, I'm sure that isn't a reference to some English county but it's insulting to the real heroes and heroines of the White Rose in Munich during WW2.

    Fortunately, no one takes the British incarnation seriously.

    Jacobites?
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    It’s like a once skilled boxer seeking just one more fight when he keeps getting his head kicked in, isn’t it?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,668

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    After his Alliance for Unity success how will he replicate that?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,806
    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    To be fair, 45% in San Francisco only takes them to 2018 levels.

    I know a Google engineer paying $8,000/month for a 1.5 bedroom apartment in a not particularly nice part of town.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,660
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    You cannot assume everyone on PB who isn't left wing thinks the same way.. unless you are tim...
    It's all relative. @londonpubman and @HYUFD think I'm the "hard left". 🤷‍♂️
    The terminally stupid have on occasion labelled me 'far right' and a 'leftie'.
    Were they just suggesting you’re deeply confused ?
    Of my many flaws a lack self confidence in myself/my views isn't one of them.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,265

    How have we ended up with a by-election in Scotland a week or so after a full slate of elections? That’s a waste of public money. Surely he’d already quit as an MP and therefore why could the elections not be on the same day? Can’t be the SNP’s fault (the incumbent usually decides right?) since they would have had every incentive to do it last Thursday and surf the tide.

    Apparently it was deliberate to reduce Covid transmission risk.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/two-elections-one-week-airdrie-23800419

    Not sure I buy that, given voters will have to go out to polling places twice rather than once, but there we are.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    stodge said:

    I have to say Mrs Stodge is seething tonight.

    Not, I stress, because Count Binfa-ce didn't quite make it to the London Mayoralty.

    It seems Transport for London, in their infinite wisdom, has decided to celebrate our "freedom" by instigating six successive weekends of engineering works on our tube lines.

    Her view is they've had plenty of time to do all this work while no one has been travelling and such work should be suspended through the summer to allow people to get out and about.

    Speaking of "freedom", I saw some anti-lockdown graffiti on one of our local bus stops from an organisation calling itself the "White Rose". Now, I'm sure that isn't a reference to some English county but it's insulting to the real heroes and heroines of the White Rose in Munich during WW2.

    Fortunately, no one takes the British incarnation seriously.

    Until they start ripping masks off folks faces or otherwise harassing, in finest Blackshirt style.

    Like the bunch who invaded the Savoy or some other 5-star spike ferreting out asylum seekers.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,660

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,484

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    That sort of bad luck is spookily common. The usual story is the groom was taking the banned substance and had a pee in the stable.
    Given that you might think
    DO NOT PISS IN THE STABLES!!
    Would be prominent in the job description.
    Everybody pisses in stables

    And your rule would ruin the excuse
    Only in other peoples. I take a pee in the fields...
    Compromise, piss in the muck bucket after mucking the stall. In a busy barn, there's always at least one half full muck bucket.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,660

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    It’s like a once skilled boxer seeking just one more fight when he keeps getting his head kicked in, isn’t it?
    You have to salute his courage, his strength, his indefatigability.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,089
    edited May 10
    rcs1000 said:

    Centre-left vote in Europe

    UK
    Lowest since 1935

    Austria
    Lowest since 1911

    Germany
    Lowest since 1932

    France
    Lowest ever

    Italy
    Lowest ever

    N'lands
    Lowest ever

    Sweden
    Lowest since 1908

    Finland
    2nd lowest

    Spain
    3rd lowest since democracy

    Maybe it's not Brexit or Starmer?
    5:15 PM · May 10, 2021·Twitter Web App

    And how does it look if you do Center Left + Green?
    I have no idea and only posted this because I thought it was interesting but maybe I am just a bit naive and do not want to upset anyone

    I was just reflecting on the last few days and have to say I am content with the outcome but am not in any way triumphant.

    Boris is king of all he surveys at present and labour are in a shocking state that will take a long time to recover, if indeed it can, with the real threat from the greens and lib dems.

    Colleagues may be surprised that I am even content with the Welsh result, not least because it was the conservatives best ever performance for the Senedd and Mark Drakeford has managed to vanquish Plaid to a great extent, and Wales future in the UK looks far more certain as a result

    On Scotland indyref2 would be legitimate following the results for the SNP/Greens and it is wrong to suggest anything else, though I am disappointed and my family, who are Scots on my wife side, are also disappointed

    Boris and Nicola will dance around the question for quite sometime but if the polls and narrative continue to show a movement in favour of the union, as recently, it will be Nicola who will face the problems rather than Boris, who ultimately could just call her bluff by accepting the Sec30 request
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,606

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    It’s like a once skilled boxer seeking just one more fight when he keeps getting his head kicked in, isn’t it?
    You have to salute his courage, his strength, his indefatigability.
    Isn't that a bit, well, feline?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 14,989

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    All Greens are watermelons.
    Not my wife. Full-on eco-authoritarian.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,047
    edited May 10
    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    Aye, with policies like this:

    Police officers need better and more intensive training to protect all basic and human rights, such as freedom of the press, or in the fight against racism. That must become one of the main contents of police training. And it means: a social pluralism must be reflected in the composition of the police to a greater extent than before.

    All people have the exclusive right to define their own gender. Intersexual, transsexual and non-binary people have the right to have their self-defined gender officially recognized without bureaucratic or medical hurdles. Self-determination requires comprehensive protection from violence.

    Germany's colonial past has been dealt with far too little in the cultural sphere as well. Extensive research is needed on the origin of objects collected and intangible cultural assets from colonial contexts, their return to the societies of origin, and the decolonization of cultural institutions and the public domain. This can only be done in close cooperation with the descendants of the formerly colonized, domestically as well as internationally.

    Racism is an undeniable reality in our society and is more or less present in all structures. Racism - and every other form of group-related hostility towards people - means that many people in Germany are not safe.
    The whole draft manifesto is here:
    https://cms.gruene.de/uploads/documents/2021_Wahlprogrammentwurf.pdf

    Stuff like balanced govt budget, not leaving Nato, C02 targets which are getting a bit closer to catching up to ours etc.
    The combination of the policies you highlight, and the ones Gallowgate outlines probably puts them on the centre left...
    I'm watching for a translation - my German is not up to 130 pages :smile: .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    To be fair, 45% in San Francisco only takes them to 2018 levels.

    I know a Google engineer paying $8,000/month for a 1.5 bedroom apartment in a not particularly nice part of town.
    Large American cities, esp NYC, are facing a perfect storm

    They are very densely populated: people are packed into skyscrapers, which are probably the least popular housing today

    They have low population CBDs which are ALL skyscrapers, but the workers have gone, and it's the richer workers which have fled first, decimating the tax base

    They have big tourist, dining, recreation sectors: ouch

    At the same time the pandemic has led to an upsurge in violent crime, even as the cities are faced with (in some cases) race riots against the police AND campaigns to defund the police

    It is the cocktail that hurled NYC into steep decline in the 70s, multiplied by plague

    London faces some of the same problems, but, thankfully, not all

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 96,660

    Alistair said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales well, the German Greens are currently the highest polling party in Germany

    I think PB righties have convinced themselves the German Greens are a centre right party now.
    All Greens are watermelons.
    Not my wife. Full-on eco-authoritarian.

    The authoritarianism of the Greens is well known, and one of the many reasons why I could never vote for them.

    That and their opposition to nuclear power.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    It’s like a once skilled boxer seeking just one more fight when he keeps getting his head kicked in, isn’t it?
    You have to salute his courage, his strength, his indefatigability.
    Back in the day in West Viginia, we used to say that about one of our perennial candidates - Peter Beter

    Aka Peter D. Beter
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,047
    Yes, stats and data unrealiability.

    However.


  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,300

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    I could see George doing better in the 'Airdrie and Shotts' by-election where Unionist voters may find it easier to switch to him than to other unionist party's, but may be too late to get on the ballot.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    RobD said:

    How have we ended up with a by-election in Scotland a week or so after a full slate of elections? That’s a waste of public money. Surely he’d already quit as an MP and therefore why could the elections not be on the same day? Can’t be the SNP’s fault (the incumbent usually decides right?) since they would have had every incentive to do it last Thursday and surf the tide.

    Apparently it was deliberate to reduce Covid transmission risk.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/two-elections-one-week-airdrie-23800419

    Not sure I buy that, given voters will have to go out to polling places twice rather than once, but there we are.
    Thanks. Yeah it seems bonkers. I know it’s not mega bucks but if I lived locally it would annoy me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,238
    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,462
    edited May 10
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    The population of California overall has fallen for the first time in history.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-drop/index.html
    America's birthrate has cratered, as well


    "U.S. birth rates continue to decline, are now below replacement levels"

    https://www.salon.com/2021/05/07/us-birth-rates-continue-to-decline-are-now-below-replacement-levels/


    The pandemic has accelerated and created trends in all areas of life and sociopolitics, some of them are absolutely momentous, but we won't realise the scale of it, for years.
    Until last year there were confident forecasts that the US population would eventually reach 450 million. I knew something would happen to stop that because it just wasn't sustainable.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 62,668
    BigRich said:

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    I could see George doing better in the 'Airdrie and Shotts' by-election where Unionist voters may find it easier to switch to him than to other unionist party's, but may be too late to get on the ballot.
    Yeah back off the sweeping success of nearly getting less than 1% of the vote in Holyrood.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The hollowing of the American city

    Average one bed apartment rents in New York City have fallen by 27% in a year

    In San Francisco they have fallen by an incredible 45%

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/10/where-apartment-rents-are-falling-fastest-in-the-us-infographic/?sh=10b4657f1abf

    The population of California overall has fallen for the first time in history.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/california-population-drop/index.html
    America's birthrate has cratered, as well


    "U.S. birth rates continue to decline, are now below replacement levels"

    https://www.salon.com/2021/05/07/us-birth-rates-continue-to-decline-are-now-below-replacement-levels/


    The pandemic has accelerated and created trends in all areas of life and sociopolitics, some of them are absolutely momentous, but we won't realise the scale of it, for years.
    Until last year there were confident forecasts that the US population would eventually reach 450 million. I knew something would happen to stop that because it just wasn't sustainable.
    I believe it was Topping who predicted that the USA's population could exceed that of China in about 50 years or less. Or was it by 2050?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,484

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
    I know Laurel, MD very well, but had not known that there is also a Hardy in the US. Apparently, 15 Hardys in the US and 2 elsewhere. Strangely, 1 in France and one in Algeria. Not a name I'd take for being French.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,462

    How have we ended up with a by-election in Scotland a week or so after a full slate of elections? That’s a waste of public money. Surely he’d already quit as an MP and therefore why could the elections not be on the same day? Can’t be the SNP’s fault (the incumbent usually decides right?) since they would have had every incentive to do it last Thursday and surf the tide.

    Because he didn't officially resign until a couple of days after the time when a by-election could have been organised on the same day as the other elections.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited May 10

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    If the Green Party is thinking strategically (fill in your own joke here) it should be thinking about what it’s purpose is in ten years when it’s clear Global Warming is as under control as it’s going to be (through a mix of state and individual action, and technology). If I was then I’d be thinking of pushing conservation and NIMBYism and putting less emphasis on veganism and “woke” social issues (which I think Labour will take as it’s own).

    It feels to me like the Greens could use such a platform to build a local base. But then I’m not exactly a friend to them so what do I know?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,226
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    He reckons the groom pissed on the hay the horse ate and the cough medicine subsequently showed up in it.

    i) Hay is normally hung up
    ii) If you take a piss in a horse's stable it's generally onto the straw.
    iii) This is an animal worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, you aren't going to piss on it's hay.
    iv) The horse wouldn't eat the pissed on hay.
    v) Even if the horse did eat the pissed on hay with the groom's cough syrup the amount of steroid coming back through the horses' own piss would be infintesimal.

    I blame an overdose of Vitamin Hay.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 42,219

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    He reckons the groom pissed on the hay the horse ate and the cough medicine subsequently showed up in it.

    i) Hay is normally hung up
    ii) If you take a piss in a horse's stable it's generally onto the straw.
    iii) This is an animal worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, you aren't going to piss on it's hay.
    iv) The horse wouldn't eat the pissed on hay.
    v) Even if the horse did eat the pissed on hay with the groom's cough syrup the amount of steroid coming back through the horses' own piss would be infintesimal.

    I blame an overdose of Vitamin Hay.
    I C what you did there.
This discussion has been closed.