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After a disappointing set of results for LAB one figure appears to have bucked the trend – political

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    This is a complete shambles, it is making Starmer look incredibly weak.
    If seeking to throw your weight around make sure you stick the landing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847

    This might be a good moment to remind everyone of the identity of the true villain of the last decade of epic Labour mismanagement: Ed Miliband. Not content with ballsing up the job himself and gifting David Cameron an unlikely majority, he changed the leadership rules to allow the party to be taken over by entryist loons, and, oh yes, guided a certain retiring Director of Public Prosecutions into a safe Labour seat...

    You missed out lost Scotland, which also happened on his watch.

    The awe in which the Milibands (David or Ed) is held by some people is a complete mystery to me.
    I think it's because they're brothers.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
    Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
    I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working

    but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
    I support Angela Rayner here

    FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?

    On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it

    The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
    Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.

    It’s a petty criticism.
    Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless

    We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages

    We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?

    We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
    They are already in the top 1 or 2% of earners believe it or not. Is the salary the major downside? I suspect it is more the lifestyle and demands of being a politician that people don't want. Something we all ought to consider. How can we make it more appealing?
    More money, Is the only way. We can't stop harsh criticism and social media aggression in a democracy

    So pay them REALLY well. Insulate them with cash and attract the best talent around

    Giving every MP £150k a year would cost us £97m a year

    Not a small sum but compared to the £300bn we have just spent on Covid in 12 months, it is tiny little peanuts

    More importantly, it would attract working and lower middle class people to have a go. People with talent who also need to make really good money - and have the ability to do so
    3 times average salary isnt enough already to attract working and lower middle class people? Frankly most of our mps are thick as mince. Yes they may be well educated but that just means they know a lot about a narrow slice of knowledge, but they have less common sense than a dead herring. Sadly though they then go on to pontificate about stuff with absolutely no knowledge of the subject because their degree or phd gives them and over inflated sense of their own intelligence. For an extreme example I point at Macron and his I have trained my self in epidemiolgy schtick
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    This is a complete shambles, it is making Starmer look incredibly weak.
    Like no one could have predicted the backlash.

    Jeez.

    "The working class are turning against us and flocking to Johnson"

    "Right, here's the response. Let's find some genuine working class MPs and sack them."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,608

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud.
    2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
    I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.

    For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.

    Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
    The thrill. People who do it secretly feel they don't have the power they feel they should have; this gives them that feeling because they're pulling the wool over the eyes of their boss and others.

    We had to sack three contractors at Crossrail who were double-charging their timesheets, booking five days a week to us and five days a week to another client in Toronto at the same time.
    I'm sure we're all amazed to discover that people connected to multi billion infrastructure spending aren't honest in their billing.
    These were self-employed sole-traders, not big multi-nationals.

    Some people think they can lose their fraud in a big budget, yes, but they eventually get found out.
    What amuses me, is that if such people set up multiple layers of companies, each contracting working to the next and taking a profit. And then at least had the gumption to leave the ownership of a couple of levels to other people....

    Why, they would be captains of industry.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    This is a complete shambles, it is making Starmer look incredibly weak.
    Just when you thought Labour's fortunes couldn't go any lower.....Starmer bends down and opens up a trapdoor.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud.
    2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
    I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.

    For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.

    Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
    The thrill. People who do it secretly feel they don't have the power they feel they should have; this gives them that feeling because they're pulling the wool over the eyes of their boss and others.

    We had to sack three contractors at Crossrail who were double-charging their timesheets, booking five days a week to us and five days a week to another client in Toronto at the same time.
    I'm sure we're all amazed to discover that people connected to multi billion infrastructure spending aren't honest in their billing.
    These were self-employed sole-traders, not big multi-nationals.

    Some people think they can lose their fraud in a big budget, yes, but they eventually get found out.
    Some get found out.

    The ones that don't get found out you never hear about.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    How were they caught?
    In my first year after University, a few of my friends ended up working for Accenture, and were put on a big project in Newcastle. This meant they all got First Class Open Returns between Newcastle and London.

    Quite a lot of them would do as TSE recounts and buy the ticket, submit the receipt, and then get a refund. It probably doubled the disposable income of a 22 year old.

    But it was also fundamentally dishonest.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    This is a complete shambles, it is making Starmer look incredibly weak.
    But no longer boring.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Starmer is making May seem strong and stable ......
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,459

    I know it is late in the day but I think people ought to be a little careful in what they are saying. We all know how 'rumours' get spread about in politics for cynical reasons and without any substance.

    Fair point, but I think it is the tweeting journalists who need to be careful, not us. As far as I know there has been no announcement on reshuffles or any other matter from the Labour Party, so it is the journalists who are spreading gossip/hearsay.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,085

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    To be authentic Starmer needs to be conducting the reshuffle from the vestibule of a Grand Central service from London to Bradford.
    Which part of the journey? The London-Doncaster fast bit, or the Doncaster-Bradford bit where you can watch the snails whizz by?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,227
    edited May 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud.
    2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
    I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.

    For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.

    Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
    The thrill. People who do it secretly feel they don't have the power they feel they should have; this gives them that feeling because they're pulling the wool over the eyes of their boss and others.

    We had to sack three contractors at Crossrail who were double-charging their timesheets, booking five days a week to us and five days a week to another client in Toronto at the same time.
    I'm sure we're all amazed to discover that people connected to multi billion infrastructure spending aren't honest in their billing.
    These were self-employed sole-traders, not big multi-nationals.

    Some people think they can lose their fraud in a big budget, yes, but they eventually get found out.
    Some get found out.

    The ones that don't get found out you never hear about.
    "Behind every great fortune there is a crime." - Balzac

    Edit - "Also behind many lesser fortunes." - SSI
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    edited May 2021
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    This is a complete shambles, it is making Starmer look incredibly weak.
    If seeking to throw your weight around make sure you stick the landing.
    Having a bit of weight might help too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    "Rachael Burford
    @RachaelBurford

    Reason for the delay here at the City & East - staff found three unopened boxes of votes after everything else had been counted"

    https://twitter.com/RachaelBurford/status/1391135003401142281
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    Scott_xP said:

    Pandemonium across the Shadow Cabinet tonight following Angela Rayner's sacking and the demotion briefings. "Cannot understand the logic of doing it on a Saturday night like this", one source within it says. Former supporters unclear what Keir Starmer's plan is, or if he has one.
    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1391137623385821185

    I fear he's going to try and do a Tony Blair whilst being a Keir Starmer.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    That pollster is an interesting appointment

    It's a rubbish appointment. As I've said many times, focus groups are useful for honing a message and finding good ways of pitching policy ideas, not for leading policy making. It's clear that Labour are conducting politics by focus group. A better leader would have come out strongly against all of the anti-democratic stuff in the virus bills rather than meekly go along becuase a few focus groups said that it would be bad to oppose the government on it.
  • HarryFreemanHarryFreeman Posts: 210
    This is like watching astroturf dry.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    BREAKING:

    The Labour Party.

    If only.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    But if Starmer were to be at it too, it would rather cut off at the knees those who use it to expose Boris' lack of ethics....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    How were they caught?
    See my post of 9.41pm.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Andy_JS said:

    "Rachael Burford
    @RachaelBurford

    Reason for the delay here at the City & East - staff found three unopened boxes of votes after everything else had been counted"

    https://twitter.com/RachaelBurford/status/1391135003401142281

    Presumably the “contingency” boxes if things were a little closer than they are.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    This is a complete shambles, it is making Starmer look incredibly weak.
    Just when you thought Labour's fortunes couldn't go any lower.....Starmer bends down and opens up a trapdoor.
    A few weeks back I said that I thought that at the next GE labour would on net lose a few seats. I grow ever more confident that I was right
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Oh God, we even have the speech of the elected Assembly Member now

    He will try to be brief, he promises.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    She clearly followed my tip.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2021
    "Chris is a voice of sanity.... He tries to keep calm. And something else. "
    "..difficult circumstances, the weather.."

    he is rumbling unconnected lines
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,213
    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    Fucking lots of women is intrinsically bad and immoral?

    lol

    It's a point of view I guess. But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    How were they caught?
    I suspect a meeting run late or early and a colleague found it strange they waited for their booked train rather than the one the first available one.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    To be authentic Starmer needs to be conducting the reshuffle from the vestibule of a Grand Central service from London to Bradford.
    Baggage hold
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    "the best part of London: City and East London!"
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,012

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    To be authentic Starmer needs to be conducting the reshuffle from the vestibule of a Grand Central service from London to Bradford.
    Which part of the journey? The London-Doncaster fast bit, or the Doncaster-Bradford bit where you can watch the snails whizz by?
    Nicola Murray and her aid bailed from the train at Brighouse, so the bit after Donny. Once they found out that Big Ben Swain was on manuevers.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080
    Floater said:

    Taz said:

    Just imagine the Tory delight on here if it were Starmer, rather than Boris, who was brought down by a sex scandal. It would be quite something.

    Don't be ridiculous. You'll be telling me John Major once had a affair next!
    I still wonder what would have happened if news of Major's affair had broken in the middle of back to basics.
    Bareback to basics.
    New keyboard please :smiley:
    Just you lot wait until the GP in Germany win the election.

    Leader Annalena Baerbock, former trampolinist. To the German Press - Bouncing Baerbock.


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    I don't think the City & East returning officer gave the second preferences for mayor.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    Fucking lots of women is intrinsically bad and immoral?

    lol

    It's a point of view I guess. But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
    Depends what they were dying of though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    MaxPB said:

    That pollster is an interesting appointment

    It's a rubbish appointment. As I've said many times, focus groups are useful for honing a message and finding good ways of pitching policy ideas, not for leading policy making. It's clear that Labour are conducting politics by focus group. A better leader would have come out strongly against all of the anti-democratic stuff in the virus bills rather than meekly go along becuase a few focus groups said that it would be bad to oppose the government on it.
    Did they run sacking Rayner through the focus group this morning?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,910
    edited May 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    To be authentic Starmer needs to be conducting the reshuffle from the vestibule of a Grand Central service from London to Bradford.
    Well, at least GC use Class 180s instead of 800s :lol:
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Why is he shouting now?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    The company wasn't losing out, as it was prepared to pay £360.

    The person sacked should have been in Accounts, for not buying £25 advance tickets.
    Unfair.

    In this profession, pre plague, you can go to the office at 8am and find out that you have meetings in London or Edinburgh in the afternoon, so it is easier for the person travelling to buy their tickets then reclaim the expense.

    Accounts were shown proof of purchase of the open ticket, usually an email and photocopy of the ticket, with proof of payment.

    The company has lost out because it has paid for meetings to overrun but the meetings weren't allowed to overrun by the employee has done bad things.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Floater said:

    Starmer is making May seem strong and stable ......

    Well, damn, now he has to resign....
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    Khan's first preferences after all declarations is 40.05%
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,734

    Nicola Murray and her aid bailed from the train at Brighouse, so the bit after Donny. Once they found out that Big Ben Swain was on manuevers.

    Taken out by Ollie.

    The indignity
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    How were they caught?
    In my first year after University, a few of my friends ended up working for Accenture, and were put on a big project in Newcastle. This meant they all got First Class Open Returns between Newcastle and London.

    Quite a lot of them would do as TSE recounts and buy the ticket, submit the receipt, and then get a refund. It probably doubled the disposable income of a 22 year old.

    But it was also fundamentally dishonest.
    It's fraud, pure and simple. It's the sort of thing that other people get sent to jail for. Tax fraud as well as a fraud on their employer.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,459
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    Fucking lots of women is intrinsically bad and immoral?

    lol

    It's a point of view I guess. But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
    They might if they died of syphilis.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
    Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
    I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working

    but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
    I support Angela Rayner here

    FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?

    On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it

    The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
    Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.

    It’s a petty criticism.
    Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless

    We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages

    We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?

    We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
    They are already in the top 1 or 2% of earners believe it or not. Is the salary the major downside? I suspect it is more the lifestyle and demands of being a politician that people don't want. Something we all ought to consider. How can we make it more appealing?
    More money, Is the only way. We can't stop harsh criticism and social media aggression in a democracy

    So pay them REALLY well. Insulate them with cash and attract the best talent around

    Giving every MP £150k a year would cost us £97m a year

    Not a small sum but compared to the £300bn we have just spent on Covid in 12 months, it is tiny little peanuts

    More importantly, it would attract working and lower middle class people to have a go. People with talent who also need to make really good money - and have the ability to do so
    3 times average salary isnt enough already to attract working and lower middle class people? Frankly most of our mps are thick as mince. Yes they may be well educated but that just means they know a lot about a narrow slice of knowledge, but they have less common sense than a dead herring. Sadly though they then go on to pontificate about stuff with absolutely no knowledge of the subject because their degree or phd gives them and over inflated sense of their own intelligence. For an extreme example I point at Macron and his I have trained my self in epidemiolgy schtick
    One awaits the day when you utter a sentiment about anybody or anything which is not infused with mean spirited contempt and bumpkin ignorance.

    Most MPs are NOT thick as mince.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    kle4 said:

    How in the name of everything fucking holy does Buckinghamshire have 147 Councillors? That must be one for every road....

    200 councillors.

    Isn't it amalgamation of like 5 councils?
    Even though it is now 147, not being shadow anymore, marquemark's point is a fair one, as while there isn't an actual rule to reduce council's in size it usually happens when they are reviewed, and while it was a new one there are very few councils over 100, only one other now if I recall right, and it is significantly above any other.
    The Tories have lost 10 seats there - but it barely dents their huge majority. In other councils, they wold have lost control.
  • HarryFreemanHarryFreeman Posts: 210
    Barnesian said:

    Khan's first preferences after all declarations is 40.05%

    Down from 44.2% last time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,747
    Alistair said:

    She clearly followed my tip.
    Mary Lou must have had a punt and all.

    https://twitter.com/maryloumcdonald/status/1391112887410774019?s=21
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
    Probably not, though they probably used to claim they thought that, when seeking to be absolved for their sinful life on their deathbeds. Those priests will buy anything.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    His bit to camera yesterday was pure IDS turning up the volume....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    To be authentic Starmer needs to be conducting the reshuffle from the vestibule of a Grand Central service from London to Bradford.
    Well, at least GC use Class 180s instead of 800s :lol:
    180s have an unfortunate habit of self combusting.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    Harsh on IDS, he did pretty well in the 2003 local elections:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_United_Kingdom_local_elections
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited May 2021

    This might be a good moment to remind everyone of the identity of the true villain of the last decade of epic Labour mismanagement: Ed Miliband. Not content with ballsing up the job himself and gifting David Cameron an unlikely majority, he changed the leadership rules to allow the party to be taken over by entryist loons, and, oh yes, guided a certain retiring Director of Public Prosecutions into a safe Labour seat...

    You missed out lost Scotland, which also happened on his watch.

    The awe in which the Milibands (David or Ed) is held by some people is a complete mystery to me.
    Miliband critiique of British capitalism's iniquities and lopsidedness, then considered radical, has become mainstream ; first gradually under May, who pretended to ape his policies on workers on boards and energy markets, and now pretty comprehensively under Johnson. He also prevented a catastrophic Anglo-American war in Syria almost single-handedly ; since stepping back has become a much more well-rounded and humorous politician ; and last year comprehensively humiliated Johnson in the Commons.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Barnesian said:

    Khan's first preferences after all declarations is 40.05%

    That's barely more than half a Houchen!
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Floater said:

    Starmer is making May seem strong and stable ......

    Well, damn, now he has to resign....
    NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    How were they caught?
    In my first year after University, a few of my friends ended up working for Accenture, and were put on a big project in Newcastle. This meant they all got First Class Open Returns between Newcastle and London.

    Quite a lot of them would do as TSE recounts and buy the ticket, submit the receipt, and then get a refund. It probably doubled the disposable income of a 22 year old.

    But it was also fundamentally dishonest.
    Only the other day you were bragging about undergraduate meetings at the Pitt Club with Sanjeev Gupta

    It does seem as though most people you met in your time as an undergraduate at Cambridge University were -- shall we say -- singularly broad-minded in financial matters. :)

    Ah well, they do say a Cambridge man can always look indulgently on a financial scheme if he sees a bit in it for himself.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847

    I know it is late in the day but I think people ought to be a little careful in what they are saying. We all know how 'rumours' get spread about in politics for cynical reasons and without any substance.

    I've missed this. Is something big happening other than Rayner?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Just imagine the Tory delight on here if it were Starmer, rather than Boris, who was brought down by a sex scandal. It would be quite something.

    It would actually make Starmer more interesting...
    If you’re going to have an affair then at least make it worth it. I mean. Look at her.
    Now, if it were a Latvian lap-dancer. Or a Russian violinist.....that would be interesting.
    Romanian pop-star twins?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pandemonium across the Shadow Cabinet tonight following Angela Rayner's sacking and the demotion briefings. "Cannot understand the logic of doing it on a Saturday night like this", one source within it says. Former supporters unclear what Keir Starmer's plan is, or if he has one.
    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1391137623385821185

    I fear he's going to try and do a Tony Blair whilst being a Keir Starmer.
    Is he at Sean's having a bender?

    Has Sean had sex with Jenny Chapman?

    Seems to have completely lost it

    Leon any inside information?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    He's done what he promised. United the Party.
    They all think he's an idiot.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
    Probably not, though they probably used to claim they thought that, when seeking to be absolved for their sinful life on their deathbeds. Those priests will buy anything.
    Especially when dying of syphilis.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,085
    Charles said:

    Just imagine the Tory delight on here if it were Starmer, rather than Boris, who was brought down by a sex scandal. It would be quite something.

    It would actually make Starmer more interesting...
    If you’re going to have an affair then at least make it worth it. I mean. Look at her.
    Now, if it were a Latvian lap-dancer. Or a Russian violinist.....that would be interesting.
    Romanian pop-star twins?
    Oooh, cheeky.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720

    Scott_xP said:

    Sound of screeching brakes? I'm hearing the reshuffle may have stalled because of the backlash to Angela Rayner's sacking
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074

    To be authentic Starmer needs to be conducting the reshuffle from the vestibule of a Grand Central service from London to Bradford.
    Well, at least GC use Class 180s instead of 800s :lol:
    A pacer would be more appropriate surely
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    Does that make Yvette Cooper Labour's Michael Howard in waiting?

    To be fair to Keir Starmer, he's not looked likely to lead his party to third place across the UK, as IDS was doing.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Charles said:

    Just imagine the Tory delight on here if it were Starmer, rather than Boris, who was brought down by a sex scandal. It would be quite something.

    It would actually make Starmer more interesting...
    If you’re going to have an affair then at least make it worth it. I mean. Look at her.
    Now, if it were a Latvian lap-dancer. Or a Russian violinist.....that would be interesting.
    Romanian pop-star twins?
    That would justify getting down on your knees for maybe.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    London Assembly Members

    List:
    Con: Shaun Bailey, Andrew Boff, Susan Hall, Emma Best (new)
    Lab: Elly Baker (new), Sakina Sheikh (new)
    Green: Sian Berry, Caroline Russell, Zack Polanski (new)
    LD: Caroline Pidgeon, Hina Bokhari (new)

    Barnet and Camden: Anne Clarke (Lab) *new
    Bexley & Bromley: Peter Fortune (Con) *new
    Brent & Harrow: Krupesh Hirani (Lab) *new
    City & East: Unmesh Desai (Lab)
    Croydon & Sutton: Neil Garratt (Con) *new
    Ealing & Hillingdon: Onkar Sahota (Lab)
    Enfield & Haringey: Joanne McCarthy (Lab)
    Greenwich & Lewisham: Len Duvall (Lab)
    Havering & Redbridge: Keith Prince (Con)
    Lambeth & Southwark: Marina Ahmad (Lab) *new
    Merton & Wandsworth: Leonie Cooper (Lab)
    North East: Sem Moena (Lab) *new
    South West: Nicholas Rogers (Con) *new
    West Central: Tony Devenish (Con)

    They receive £58,543 salary per year
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Josh Halliday
    @JoshHalliday
    Anger and disbelief in the Labour Party over
    @AngelaRayner
    sacking. “It’s a clear mistake to fire someone who speaks like the people we need to talk to,” says one source. “It’s all kicking off ... it’s a huge mistake from a bunch of snobs who don’t like how she speaks.”
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847

    This might be a good moment to remind everyone of the identity of the true villain of the last decade of epic Labour mismanagement: Ed Miliband. Not content with ballsing up the job himself and gifting David Cameron an unlikely majority, he changed the leadership rules to allow the party to be taken over by entryist loons, and, oh yes, guided a certain retiring Director of Public Prosecutions into a safe Labour seat...

    You missed out lost Scotland, which also happened on his watch.

    The awe in which the Milibands (David or Ed) is held by some people is a complete mystery to me.
    Miliband critiique of British capitalism's iniquities , then considered radical, has become mainstream , first gradually under May, who pretended to ape his policies on workers on boards and energy markets, and now comprehensively under Johnson. He also prevented a catastrophic Anglo-American war in Syria almost single-handedly ; since stepping back has become a much more well-rounded and humorous politician ; and last year comprehensively humiliated Johnson in the Commons.
    And "chaos" under him would have been such a very good choice compared to what happened.
  • HarryFreemanHarryFreeman Posts: 210
    Has Tim Shipman deleted a tweet about domestic arrangements ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    Fucking lots of women is intrinsically bad and immoral?

    lol

    It's a point of view I guess. But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
    Sir Henry Norris, Sir Francis Weston, Sir William Brereton, Mark Smeaton, George Boleyn...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,213

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    Fucking lots of women is intrinsically bad and immoral?

    lol

    It's a point of view I guess. But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
    They might if they died of syphilis.
    Nietzsche died of syphilis.

    He had sex once in his life, with a hooker. Caught syphilis.

    And he reckoned God is Dead?

    lol
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957
    tlg86 said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    Harsh on IDS, he did pretty well in the 2003 local elections:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    Nah, that was because 1995 was so bad for the Tories.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/1391140486673584129/photo/1

    Meanwhile prominent shadow cabinet member says the same until he stands down as leader
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,227
    Charles said:

    Just imagine the Tory delight on here if it were Starmer, rather than Boris, who was brought down by a sex scandal. It would be quite something.

    It would actually make Starmer more interesting...
    If you’re going to have an affair then at least make it worth it. I mean. Look at her.
    Now, if it were a Latvian lap-dancer. Or a Russian violinist.....that would be interesting.
    Romanian pop-star twins?
    Yet another instance where Labour MIGHT be well advised to follow a Lib Dem's lead?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    This might be a good moment to remind everyone of the identity of the true villain of the last decade of epic Labour mismanagement: Ed Miliband. Not content with ballsing up the job himself and gifting David Cameron an unlikely majority, he changed the leadership rules to allow the party to be taken over by entryist loons, and, oh yes, guided a certain retiring Director of Public Prosecutions into a safe Labour seat...

    You missed out lost Scotland, which also happened on his watch.

    The awe in which the Milibands (David or Ed) is held by some people is a complete mystery to me.
    Miliband critiique of British capitalism's iniquities, then considered radical, has become mainstream , first gradually under May, who pretended to ape his policies on workers on boards and energy markets, and now comprehensively under Johnson. He also prevented a catastrophic Anglo-American war in Syria almost single-handedly ; since stepping back has become a much more well-rounded and humorous politician ; and last year comprehensively humiliated Johnson in the Commons.
    Yes, I like Ed Miliband - but as a leader of a political party, his tenure did not do much good for Labour's long-term prospects. I have a pretty high opinion of myself, as most people like to think well of themselves, but I recognise that I'm not a leader. Neither was Ed Miliband. Or Corbyn. Or, it would seem, Starmer. Apart from anything else, Labour need someone with leadership abilities.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    I prefer originals from you to Hodges. Don't know why you defer to him so much.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Tres said:

    Harpenden and Amersham are turning yellow.

    Oil seed rape coming into flower?
    It’s called rapeseed these days - too many complaints
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    Does that make Yvette Cooper Labour's Michael Howard in waiting?

    To be fair to Keir Starmer, he's not looked likely to lead his party to third place across the UK, as IDS was doing.
    Again, very harsh on IDS.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    City & East, changes on first preferences:

    Khan/Lab -12.6%
    Bailey/Tories +8.4%

    Swing Lab to Tories, 10.5%

    https://twitter.com/Joe_C_London/status/1391141522809270272
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    tlg86 said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    Harsh on IDS, he did pretty well in the 2003 local elections:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    Nah, that was because 1995 was so bad for the Tories.
    But, Hague added 1,348 councillors in 1999:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_United_Kingdom_local_elections
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629
    edited May 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
    Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
    I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working

    but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
    I support Angela Rayner here

    FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?

    On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it

    The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
    Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.

    It’s a petty criticism.
    Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless

    We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages

    We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?

    We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
    They are already in the top 1 or 2% of earners believe it or not. Is the salary the major downside? I suspect it is more the lifestyle and demands of being a politician that people don't want. Something we all ought to consider. How can we make it more appealing?
    More money, Is the only way. We can't stop harsh criticism and social media aggression in a democracy

    So pay them REALLY well. Insulate them with cash and attract the best talent around

    Giving every MP £150k a year would cost us £97m a year

    Not a small sum but compared to the £300bn we have just spent on Covid in 12 months, it is tiny little peanuts

    More importantly, it would attract working and lower middle class people to have a go. People with talent who also need to make really good money - and have the ability to do so
    3 times average salary isnt enough already to attract working and lower middle class people? Frankly most of our mps are thick as mince. Yes they may be well educated but that just means they know a lot about a narrow slice of knowledge, but they have less common sense than a dead herring. Sadly though they then go on to pontificate about stuff with absolutely no knowledge of the subject because their degree or phd gives them and over inflated sense of their own intelligence. For an extreme example I point at Macron and his I have trained my self in epidemiolgy schtick
    One awaits the day when you utter a sentiment about anybody or anything which is not infused with mean spirited contempt and bumpkin ignorance.

    Most MPs are NOT thick as mince.
    They selected a career where 80% of them will only have enough nous to go through the correct lobby. Your evidence they aren't is what precisely? I also acknowledged they were probably knowledgeable in the area they got their degree in but pointed out to many of that ilk think being knowledgeable in one small are makes you knowledgeable in all. I have seen far too many mp's talking about things they obviously have no idea about to not think they are mostly too thick to realise they don't know what the hell they are talking about. That is what makes them thick as mince. From covid for example I at least no I don't know enough about epidemiology to comment.....not so with plenty of our mp's and media
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    tlg86 said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    Does that make Yvette Cooper Labour's Michael Howard in waiting?

    To be fair to Keir Starmer, he's not looked likely to lead his party to third place across the UK, as IDS was doing.
    Again, very harsh on IDS.
    IDS had far better local election results than Starmer has just had....

    2002 - Cons gained 238 seats

    2003 - Cons gained 566 seats
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    It’s not boring if you’re doing it right…

    (Not that I ever have to be clear)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    kinabalu said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    13m
    People were wondering whether Keir Starmer was Labour’s Blair or Labour’s Kinnock. Tonight he’s looking like Labour’s Iain Duncan Smith.

    I prefer originals from you to Hodges. Don't know why you defer to him so much.
    Thanks. Not a case of deferring on my part. I just think he usually has something to contribute even if it is likely to just help the popcorn flow even faster.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    Is it just me, or does classical music keep coming on and off on the London results live stream on YouTube?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    Fucking lots of women is intrinsically bad and immoral?

    lol

    It's a point of view I guess. But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
    Not massively immoral no. But it's commonplace and not especially interesting.

    Final sentiment is also boring. Being the cliché that is always rolled out.

    Stop boring me, I guess, is the message here. I want to see original clever copy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    edited May 2021
    Charles said:

    Tres said:

    Harpenden and Amersham are turning yellow.

    Oil seed rape coming into flower?
    It’s called rapeseed these days - too many complaints

    Ian Berriman
    @ianberriman
    Indie bands standing about in oilseed rape #1: The Jesus And Mary Chain.

    https://twitter.com/ianberriman/status/1387541148261027843

    (There's dozens of them)

    Edit: Trigger alert. One of them is Radiohead
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Andy_JS said:

    Is it just me, or does classical music keep coming on and off on the London results live stream on YouTube?

    for me too
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

    Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

    New level of toxicity

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

    I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

    But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

    Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
    If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

    Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

    If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
    I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.

    My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.

    One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.

    Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.

    The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
    1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud.
    2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
    I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.

    For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.

    Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
    The thrill. People who do it secretly feel they don't have the power they feel they should have; this gives them that feeling because they're pulling the wool over the eyes of their boss and others.

    We had to sack three contractors at Crossrail who were double-charging their timesheets, booking five days a week to us and five days a week to another client in Toronto at the same time.
    I'm sure we're all amazed to discover that people connected to multi billion infrastructure spending aren't honest in their billing.
    These were self-employed sole-traders, not big multi-nationals.

    Some people think they can lose their fraud in a big budget, yes, but they eventually get found out.
    Some get found out.

    The ones that don't get found out you never hear about.
    "Behind every great fortune there is a crime." - Balzac

    Edit - "Also behind many lesser fortunes." - SSI
    Not all*

    * the south sea company was racy but not illegal 😂
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    Confession - the only Shadow Cabinet members I know much about are Ashworth, Nandy, Rayner, Milliband, and Dodds (barely)

    Looks like 4 of the 5 may/will be sacked from the front bench tomorrow. Starmer's gone mental.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1391132717107003406
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,227

    Andy_JS said:

    "Rachael Burford
    @RachaelBurford

    Reason for the delay here at the City & East - staff found three unopened boxes of votes after everything else had been counted"

    https://twitter.com/RachaelBurford/status/1391135003401142281

    Presumably the “contingency” boxes if things were a little closer than they are.
    Have you ever observed an actual election count, in person? Am guessing not.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    Fan power:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/08/manchester-united-lose-200m-training-kit-deal-over-fans-anti-glazers-campaign

    Manchester United have missed out on a proposed new training kit deal worth £200m over 10 years after the Manchester-based company The Hut Group had concerns about the supporters’ campaign to boycott the club’s commercial partners in protest at the Glazers’ ownership, the Observer understands.

    Richard Arnold, United’s group managing director, was told on Friday that THG had pulled out of a contract which was due to start on 1 July.


    No, I'd never heard of The Hut Group either.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
    Probably not, though they probably used to claim they thought that, when seeking to be absolved for their sinful life on their deathbeds. Those priests will buy anything.
    When you die you don't think about sex at all. You think about the big relationships in your life and what they've meant to you. That's what I've been told anyway.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Fan power:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/08/manchester-united-lose-200m-training-kit-deal-over-fans-anti-glazers-campaign

    Manchester United have missed out on a proposed new training kit deal worth £200m over 10 years after the Manchester-based company The Hut Group had concerns about the supporters’ campaign to boycott the club’s commercial partners in protest at the Glazers’ ownership, the Observer understands.

    Richard Arnold, United’s group managing director, was told on Friday that THG had pulled out of a contract which was due to start on 1 July.


    No, I'd never heard of The Hut Group either.

    They are the group behind the likes of MyProtein....they have the most annoying business model ever...the price is never the price, it is always possible to get 30-40-50% off and they bombard you daily with these offer codes.

    So you buy a box of protein bars from them, then every day you get spam email after spam email, but if you unsubscribe you won't get the offer codes and so if you want to restock your protein bars you will have to pay 2x the price.

    The products they sell are fine, but its the sales tactics that drive you mad.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    2h
    A Labour source tells me: “Angela was going to do Marr to defend Keir. Her team had drafted lines for Keir’s team.”

    And I can confirm she *is* down the pub.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    It’s not boring if you’re doing it right…

    (Not that I ever have to be clear)
    You've never done it right?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,720
    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Khan's first preferences after all declarations is 40.05%

    That's barely more than half a Houchen!
    Its in the 40 - 44.99% range thankfully
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited May 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.

    When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.

    No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.

    There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
    But no one died thinking "I wish I'd had sex less often and with fewer women"
    Probably not, though they probably used to claim they thought that, when seeking to be absolved for their sinful life on their deathbeds. Those priests will buy anything.
    When you die you don't think about sex at all. You think about the big relationships in your life and what they've meant to you. That's what I've been told anyway.
    I've had an NDE experience and can confirm this may be correct. Except it was more of an experience of remembering everything at the same time, and having no fear of what was next.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    First preferences, London:

    Khan 1,013,721 votes
    Bailey 893,051 votes
This discussion has been closed.