I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
Can you really tell savings on a credit check?? I thought it only showed loans along with address type info?
Inelegant phrasing on my part, the contract of employment for some employees is that they must have their main current with us, so we can see their savings with us if they choose to.
One of the red flags is when the savings accounts balance with us disappears quickly.
But when I say credit check I mean something more which incorporates internal and external checks from credit reference agencies and CIFAS.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
£12000 a year and a believe they wouldn't be caught
I encountered a chap who liked to get others peoples expenses investigated as a corporate political tactic. When the tables were turned on him - guess what? All the stupid kinds of fraud. I thought the numerous Black Cab receipts from the same pad, with the same handwriting, over a period of years was especially... something.
Whenever you need to reduce staff numbers and want to save on redundancy costs the first thing to do is an expenses audit.
The people who cheat on expenses like that always seem to be utter wankers. Not encountered one who was doing it because they actually needed the money.
Robert Peston @Peston · 12m Bunker mentality seems to have arrived weirdly early in the @Keir_Starmer tenure. As I understand it @lisanandy and @JonAshworth are bracing themselves to be sacked for allegedly being disloyal to Labour’s leader. If they have been disloyal they certainly never showed such...
One former party adviser likened Sir Keir to Sir Iain Duncan Smith, the former Tory leader who was forced out of his party before he got the chance to fight a general election saying: “He is swinging like a punch drunk boxer on Saturday night.”
The ex-adviser told the Telegraph: “He seems out of control of himself. He seems to have lost any semblance of how to manage a political party, which is very similar to how Iain Duncan Smith became in the last days of his leadership." https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1391135418658304005
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
£12000 a year and a believe they wouldn't be caught
I encountered a chap who liked to get others peoples expenses investigated as a corporate political tactic. When the tables were turned on him - guess what? All the stupid kinds of fraud. I thought the numerous Black Cab receipts from the same pad, with the same handwriting, over a period of years was especially... something.
People who are all the time calling other people crooks, are quite often crooks themselves.
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Congratulations Ian, good to see a number of us are now or have been in the PB town councillor club
Perhaps PBers actually elected to councils, or anything else, could comprise a PB Privy Council?
With a brief but formal meeting in the jacks (coed) at the next great PB get-together!
Ah, but only District/Borough/Unitaries and Counties count as ‘principal’ councils, so I think the pb Privy Council will comprise solely of Nick Palmer and my own illustrious self. I can happily live with that but as Counties are the Upper Tier, I bag myself as its Lord Serene and Most Exalted High President.
Privy Council is outside the normal democratic structures :-).
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Blood hell! A sensible post that I agree with.
I would only add that as a quid pro quo being an MP should be a full-time job, so with the good salary there should be a duty not to take on other paid work that consumes time.
Yes, I entirely agree, in return
A rarity!
The governing principle should be: being an MP - one of just 650 for the whole UK - is a really, really important job. We want the best, so it pays well. Easy six figures. £150-200k. And if you go on to minister or shadow minister, £250k a year or more
BUT the quid pro quo is: NO outside earnings during that time. As you say.
You're a well paid MP. Focus on your job
Most MPs will not have earnt £100,000+ before politics so I don't see why taxpayers should pay them that much, at the end of the day the main criteria to be a backbench MP is to be able to get elected and be good at constituency casework and follow the guidance of the whips when voting. There current salary of £80,000 is fine.
PM or Senior Cabinet Minister £200k+ maybe as when you get to that level you are effectively running the country's public affairs
I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.
When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Blood hell! A sensible post that I agree with.
I would only add that as a quid pro quo being an MP should be a full-time job, so with the good salary there should be a duty not to take on other paid work that consumes time.
Yes, I entirely agree, in return
A rarity!
The governing principle should be: being an MP - one of just 650 for the whole UK - is a really, really important job. We want the best, so it pays well. Easy six figures. £150-200k. And if you go on to minister or shadow minister, £250k a year or more
BUT the quid pro quo is: NO outside earnings during that time. As you say.
You're a well paid MP. Focus on your job
Most MPs will not have earnt £100,000+ before politics so I don't see why taxpayers should pay them that much, at the end of the day the main criteria to be a backbench MP is to be able to get elected and be good at constituency casework and follow the guidance of the whips when voting. There current salary of £80,000 is fine.
PM or Senior Cabinet Minister £200k+ maybe as when you get to that level you are effectively running the country's public affairs
We disagree on MPs' pay but congrats to you for calling Scotland right. SNP no overall maj
You are a weird mix of highly partisan contributor but honest, astute predictor
Labour's seat count has held up well across West Yorkshire.
Woke and BAME combo staying loyal?
There's an approximate coal/textile line in West Yorkshire from Denby Dale north to Morley and then north-east to Garforth which matches how well Labour is holding up.
How in the name of everything fucking holy does Buckinghamshire have 147 Councillors? That must be one for every road....
200 councillors.
Isn't it amalgamation of like 5 councils?
Even though it is now 147, not being shadow anymore, marquemark's point is a fair one, as while there isn't an actual rule to reduce council's in size it usually happens when they are reviewed, and while it was a new one there are very few councils over 100, only one other now if I recall right, and it is significantly above any other.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
£12000 a year and a believe they wouldn't be caught
I encountered a chap who liked to get others peoples expenses investigated as a corporate political tactic. When the tables were turned on him - guess what? All the stupid kinds of fraud. I thought the numerous Black Cab receipts from the same pad, with the same handwriting, over a period of years was especially... something.
People who are all the time calling other people crooks, are quite often crooks themselves.
POTUS 45 being their Posterchild-in-Chief.
Yes - to an extent... Plenty of people call out crooks. But there is a kind of blustering, arrogant style that makes you think "He knows *alot* about the crime in question...."
Robert Peston @Peston · 12m Bunker mentality seems to have arrived weirdly early in the @Keir_Starmer tenure. As I understand it @lisanandy and @JonAshworth are bracing themselves to be sacked for allegedly being disloyal to Labour’s leader. If they have been disloyal they certainly never showed such...
Sack Jon and Lisa for,being unloyal.......disloyal.
This might be a good moment to remind everyone of the identity of the true villain of the last decade of epic Labour mismanagement: Ed Miliband. Not content with ballsing up the job himself and gifting David Cameron an unlikely majority, he changed the leadership rules to allow the party to be taken over by entryist loons, and, oh yes, guided a certain retiring Director of Public Prosecutions into a safe Labour seat...
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
They are already in the top 1 or 2% of earners believe it or not. Is the salary the major downside? I suspect it is more the lifestyle and demands of being a politician that people don't want. Something we all ought to consider. How can we make it more appealing?
Pandemonium across the Shadow Cabinet tonight following Angela Rayner's sacking and the demotion briefings. "Cannot understand the logic of doing it on a Saturday night like this", one source within it says. Former supporters unclear what Keir Starmer's plan is, or if he has one. https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1391137623385821185
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
£12000 a year and a believe they wouldn't be caught
I encountered a chap who liked to get others peoples expenses investigated as a corporate political tactic. When the tables were turned on him - guess what? All the stupid kinds of fraud. I thought the numerous Black Cab receipts from the same pad, with the same handwriting, over a period of years was especially... something.
Whenever you need to reduce staff numbers and want to save on redundancy costs the first thing to do is an expenses audit.
The people who cheat on expenses like that always seem to be utter wankers. Not encountered one who was doing it because they actually needed the money.
Agreed. I think they generally just like cheating.
Sort of conincidentally, Mrs P wanted to know if we still needed to keep copies of my expense receipts from 2010 - 2017 (when I retired). I reluctantly agreed they could now be disposed of.
This might be a good moment to remind everyone of the identity of the true villain of the last decade of epic Labour mismanagement: Ed Miliband. Not content with ballsing up the job himself and gifting David Cameron an unlikely majority, he changed the leadership rules to allow the party to be taken over by entryist loons, and, oh yes, guided a certain retiring Director of Public Prosecutions into a safe Labour seat...
You missed out lost Scotland, which also happened on his watch.
The awe in which the Milibands (David or Ed) is held by some people is a complete mystery to me.
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Blood hell! A sensible post that I agree with.
I would only add that as a quid pro quo being an MP should be a full-time job, so with the good salary there should be a duty not to take on other paid work that consumes time.
Yes, I entirely agree, in return
A rarity!
The governing principle should be: being an MP - one of just 650 for the whole UK - is a really, really important job. We want the best, so it pays well. Easy six figures. £150-200k. And if you go on to minister or shadow minister, £250k a year or more
BUT the quid pro quo is: NO outside earnings during that time. As you say.
You're a well paid MP. Focus on your job
Most MPs will not have earnt £100,000+ before politics so I don't see why taxpayers should pay them that much, at the end of the day the main criteria to be a backbench MP is to be able to get elected and be good at constituency casework and follow the guidance of the whips when voting. Their current salary of £80,000 is fine.
PM or Senior Cabinet Minister £200k+ maybe as when you get to that level you are effectively running the country's public affairs
We disagree on MPs' pay but congrats to you for calling Scotland right. SNP no overall maj
You are a weird mix of highly partisan contributor but honest, astute predictor
This might be a good moment to remind everyone of the identity of the true villain of the last decade of epic Labour mismanagement: Ed Miliband. Not content with ballsing up the job himself and gifting David Cameron an unlikely majority, he changed the leadership rules to allow the party to be taken over by entryist loons, and, oh yes, guided a certain retiring Director of Public Prosecutions into a safe Labour seat...
You missed out lost Scotland, which also happened on his watch.
The awe in which the Milibands (David or Ed) is held by some people is a complete mystery to me.
"The rightwing smear against Ed Miliband angered me. But his bravery and integrity in the face of it was an inspiration"
Pandemonium across the Shadow Cabinet tonight following Angela Rayner's sacking and the demotion briefings. "Cannot understand the logic of doing it on a Saturday night like this", one source within it says. Former supporters unclear what Keir Starmer's plan is, or if he has one. https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1391137623385821185
To keep coverage of Burnham down as much as possible?
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
The thrill. People who do it secretly feel they don't have the power they feel they should have; this gives them that feeling because they're pulling the wool over the eyes of their boss and others.
We had to sack three contractors at Crossrail who were double-charging their timesheets, booking five days a week to us and five days a week to another client in Toronto at the same time.
I'm sure we're all amazed to discover that people connected to multi billion infrastructure spending aren't honest in their billing.
On the subject of another indyref, and I say this as someone who thinks another is both reasonable and hope scots say yes, from a unionist pov surely the best thing is for when sturgeon makes the inevitable ask to say "Why yes Nicola we will expedite a s30 order so you can have it in 2022.....however due to the uncertainty it causes for business and people we feel we should say that another won't be granted until at leat 2042. It would from from what I can see shut down the question for at least 20 years as I dont see scots going yes currently
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
They are already in the top 1 or 2% of earners believe it or not. Is the salary the major downside? I suspect it is more the lifestyle and demands of being a politician that people don't want. Something we all ought to consider. How can we make it more appealing?
More money, Is the only way. We can't stop harsh criticism and social media aggression in a democracy
So pay them REALLY well. Insulate them with cash and attract the best talent around
Giving every MP £150k a year would cost us £97m a year
Not a small sum but compared to the £300bn we have just spent on Covid in 12 months, it is tiny little peanuts
More importantly, it would attract working and lower middle class people to have a go. People with talent who also need to make really good money - and have the ability to do so
I know it is late in the day but I think people ought to be a little careful in what they are saying. We all know how 'rumours' get spread about in politics for cynical reasons and without any substance.
Labour candidate @unmeshdesai, who is way out in front, jokes he was willing to give a box each to the candidates in second, third and fourth place if it would get us out quicker
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Blood hell! A sensible post that I agree with.
I would only add that as a quid pro quo being an MP should be a full-time job, so with the good salary there should be a duty not to take on other paid work that consumes time.
Yes, I entirely agree, in return
A rarity!
The governing principle should be: being an MP - one of just 650 for the whole UK - is a really, really important job. We want the best, so it pays well. Easy six figures. £150-200k. And if you go on to minister or shadow minister, £250k a year or more
BUT the quid pro quo is: NO outside earnings during that time. As you say.
You're a well paid MP. Focus on your job
Most MPs will not have earnt £100,000+ before politics so I don't see why taxpayers should pay them that much, at the end of the day the main criteria to be a backbench MP is to be able to get elected and be good at constituency casework and follow the guidance of the whips when voting. There current salary of £80,000 is fine.
PM or Senior Cabinet Minister £200k+ maybe as when you get to that level you are effectively running the country's public affairs
Agree. It's a loopy idea.
Believe it is now 84-85k plus a package worth another 30-35k or perhaps more.
The thing that was poisonous about the behaviour back in 2008 or so was that MPs had believed they were somehow different and had a right to all sorts of perks denied to normal people. Then to keep it all secret.
And that's leaving aside all the fiddling by switching mortgages, expecting their employer to pay CGT on second houses and all the rest. That they all thought it was appropriate to keep secret to allow fiddling in the dark.
Secrecy is creeping back. Of the type that enabled fraud, and was only broken when an expenses clerk leaked all of it.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
Life Death Taxes Corrupt elections in Tower Hamlets.
When my flat mate had his vote stolen there, he found the police worked very hard not to register it as a crime and indeed acted as if it was their job to keep him quiet about it.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
The thrill. People who do it secretly feel they don't have the power they feel they should have; this gives them that feeling because they're pulling the wool over the eyes of their boss and others.
We had to sack three contractors at Crossrail who were double-charging their timesheets, booking five days a week to us and five days a week to another client in Toronto at the same time.
I'm sure we're all amazed to discover that people connected to multi billion infrastructure spending aren't honest in their billing.
These were self-employed sole-traders, not big multi-nationals.
Some people think they can lose their fraud in a big budget, yes, but they eventually get found out.
This might be a good moment to remind everyone of the identity of the true villain of the last decade of epic Labour mismanagement: Ed Miliband. Not content with ballsing up the job himself and gifting David Cameron an unlikely majority, he changed the leadership rules to allow the party to be taken over by entryist loons, and, oh yes, guided a certain retiring Director of Public Prosecutions into a safe Labour seat...
And yet... If Starmer really has gone tonto and doesn't need the Men In Grey Suits so much as the Men In White Coats, would anyone really be surprised if MilliEd stepped into the breach? Just on an emergency basis, you understand? Didn't he do one of the PMQs early on in Covidtide, when SKS was isolating?
I don't really care if Starmer is or isn't. One reason Boris gets away with that kind of stuff is it is a) expected and b) he never claims be to whiter than white.
When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.
No, the reason he gets away with that sort of stuff is that people put their brains in a jar when it comes to assessing him.
There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
The company wasn't losing out, as it was prepared to pay £360.
The person sacked should have been in Accounts, for not buying £25 advance tickets.
The employee was being dishonest
Expenses are supposed to be incurred for work. They are then refunded.
For example I am travelling to Derby in a couple of weeks. I am going up at 7.30 rather than 8.30 to save £100
Holy Shit, the Greens almost certainly missed out on List seats in Glasgow and South of Scotland due to scum bag party "Independent Green Voice" taking a stack of votes on the List.
If the Greens had got 115 more votes in the South of Scotland they'd have taken the 7th placed list position. Independent Green Voice got 1690 votes.
I guess that's one reason why a transferable vote system is superior, as it would make such spoiler parties much less effective.
Comments
One of the red flags is when the savings accounts balance with us disappears quickly.
But when I say credit check I mean something more which incorporates internal and external checks from credit reference agencies and CIFAS.
@Peston
·
12m
Bunker mentality seems to have arrived weirdly early in the
@Keir_Starmer
tenure. As I understand it
@lisanandy
and
@JonAshworth
are bracing themselves to be sacked for allegedly being disloyal to Labour’s leader. If they have been disloyal they certainly never showed such...
The ex-adviser told the Telegraph: “He seems out of control of himself. He seems to have lost any semblance of how to manage a political party, which is very similar to how Iain Duncan Smith became in the last days of his leadership."
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1391135418658304005
POTUS 45 being their Posterchild-in-Chief.
That is Sarah Champion, who I quite like, so I'm glad that isn't her!
PM or Senior Cabinet Minister £200k+ maybe as when you get to that level you are effectively running the country's public affairs
When it hurts politicians is if you preach purity and then found to be a hypocrite e.g. Tory back to basics.
You are a weird mix of highly partisan contributor but honest, astute predictor
I, for one, salute you!
Which may or may not be Starmer's problem.
John Profumo? Not so much. But then Palmerston - like Johnson - never lied to the public, (as opposed to his significant other(s)) about it.
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1391109345941860353?s=20
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1391137623385821185
Often very handsome people turn out to be sexual dude. While on the other hand . . .
Sort of conincidentally, Mrs P wanted to know if we still needed to keep copies of my expense receipts from 2010 - 2017 (when I retired). I reluctantly agreed they could now be disposed of.
The awe in which the Milibands (David or Ed) is held by some people is a complete mystery to me.
Hezza's dicky ticker would have ruled him out.
I just got lots of ready salted crisps.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/milifan-prime-minister-ed-miliband
I think SKS may have become clinically insane.
https://twitter.com/RachaelBurford/status/1391135003401142281?s=20
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
13m
Er...what?
Could be about anything that has happened this evening but is actually a response to a pollster being made head of strategy.
So pay them REALLY well. Insulate them with cash and attract the best talent around
Giving every MP £150k a year would cost us £97m a year
Not a small sum but compared to the £300bn we have just spent on Covid in 12 months, it is tiny little peanuts
More importantly, it would attract working and lower middle class people to have a go. People with talent who also need to make really good money - and have the ability to do so
Indeed what has you new avatar got to do with anything at all?
https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1391139439716483074
Life
Death
Taxes
Corrupt elections in Tower Hamlets.
https://youtu.be/NBHHFnUqo5o?t=133
Believe it is now 84-85k plus a package worth another 30-35k or perhaps more.
The thing that was poisonous about the behaviour back in 2008 or so was that MPs had believed they were somehow different and had a right to all sorts of perks denied to normal people. Then to keep it all secret.
And that's leaving aside all the fiddling by switching mortgages, expecting their employer to pay CGT on second houses and all the rest. That they all thought it was appropriate to keep secret to allow fiddling in the dark.
Secrecy is creeping back. Of the type that enabled fraud, and was only broken when an expenses clerk leaked all of it.
Some people think they can lose their fraud in a big budget, yes, but they eventually get found out.
Absurd? Maybe. But is it Jeffrey Archer absurd?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qcjj7iOemw
There's nothing interesting about womanising or sexual infidelity. It's a sign of moral laxity and is yawningly common. It's boring.
Expenses are supposed to be incurred for work. They are then refunded.
For example I am travelling to Derby in a couple of weeks. I am going up at 7.30 rather than 8.30 to save £100
Khan c. 99,000
Bailey c. 48,000