Provisional result: Tower Hamlets residents have voted to keep the role of a directly elected Mayor, in a governance referendum held on 6 May. Voters backed the current system of governance by 63,029 votes to 17,951 votes, with 3,444 spoiled ballots. The turnout was 41.79%
Labour to lose one London Assembly seat, BBC forecasts
The BBC's polling expert Prof Sir John Curtice projects that Labour will remain the largest party on the London Assembly, with 11 seats - down by one from the result five years ago.
The remaining parties are expected to get:
Conservatives - 9 Greens - 3 Lib Dems - 2 It would mean all three of these parties increase their seats by one from the previous election, because UKIP has not defended its two seats.
"London Labour support has edged down a bit," says Prof Curtice.
11-9 ain't a bad result for those Tories, toxic in London we are constantly told.....
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
If they dont think it is appropriate for someone that senior to travel 1st class, surely an obvious policy would be to abolish it. Is it just for the Queen?
I happen to agree with abolishing first class.
On mercifully only one occasion, I had to sack someone. It took 2 years, and a whole palaver of verbal warnings, written warnings, meetings with HR & appeals. By the time I succeeded, the grant had expired anyhow.
In the real world -- as opposed to Starmer-land -- you can't just sack someone for such a stupid reason.
Starmer imposed the candidate AFAIK, and I agree with @bigjohnowls that the candidate was an abysmal match to Hartlepool.
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Congratulations Ian, good to see a number of us are now or have been in the PB town councillor club
Perhaps PBers actually elected to councils, or anything else, could comprise a PB Privy Council?
With a brief but formal meeting in the jacks (coed) at the next great PB get-together!
Ah, but only District/Borough/Unitaries and Counties count as ‘principal’ councils, so I think the pb Privy Council will comprise solely of Nick Palmer and my own illustrious self. I can happily live with that but as Counties are the Upper Tier, I bag myself as its Lord Serene and Most Exalted High President.
Perhaps you could loosen up a tad, and let at least HYUFD in - as Witchfinder General!
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
Provisional result: Tower Hamlets residents have voted to keep the role of a directly elected Mayor, in a governance referendum held on 6 May. Voters backed the current system of governance by 63,029 votes to 17,951 votes, with 3,444 spoiled ballots. The turnout was 41.79%
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
I mean sure, make the man who buys Armani suits the Labour leader and lets see how well he does in Rotherham, Sheffield, Hartlepool, Southampton.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
The company wasn't losing out, as it was prepared to pay £360.
The person sacked should have been in Accounts, for not buying £25 advance tickets.
What is so bad about a chair of a major party going first class ? Honestly we have some funny fetishes about making senior leaders slum it at times .
I don't have a problem with ministers and senior party figures travelling first class. I have a problem with saying, if she did, that it relates to a murder case
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
I mean sure, make the man who buys Armani suits the Labour leader and lets see how well he does in Rotherham, Sheffield, Hartlepool, Southampton.
Just don't say I didn't warn you....
Curious. I didn't mention Burnham, and wouldn't, as it happens, want him as leader. I was merely correcting your factual inaccuracy, which you don't have the good grace to acknowledge.
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Many congratulations on your election to public office
All the best
Thank you most kindly. I first acquired my ‘councillor’ title aged 31, just ten days before my partner succumbed to cancer, and have managed to continue my service in local government for what will be, at the end of my new term, 31 years total (and counting, health and the electorate permitting).
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
The company wasn't losing out, as it was prepared to pay £360.
The person sacked should have been in Accounts, for not buying £25 advance tickets.
Tickets may have been getting charged to a client. No doubt with a 15% mark up for handling.
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
Why is that happening outside Mancunia, I wonder.
Many of those places are essentially part of 'Manchester'
Trafford and Bury (Bury authority is much more than the town of Bury) are heavily focused economically on Manc, if Manc had a similar setup of local authorities as Brum they'd be the same authority).
Holy Shit, the Greens almost certainly missed out on List seats in Glasgow and South of Scotland due to scum bag party "Independent Green Voice" taking a stack of votes on the List.
If the Greens had got 115 more votes in the South of Scotland they'd have taken the 7th placed list position. Independent Green Voice got 1690 votes.
They've been announcing second preferences as they go along at each of the 14 results, although they do include second preferences such as Johnson 1, Khan 2, and vice versa, which will need to be excluded from the final result.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
The company wasn't losing out, as it was prepared to pay £360.
The person sacked should have been in Accounts, for not buying £25 advance tickets.
The person who was actually sacked was dishonest, defrauding the company and (presumably) evading taxes.
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
Yes, and Burnham is the mayor of Greater Manchester, not just Manchester. And a lot of GM is pretty red-wall-ish. Leigh, and Heywood and Middleton for example. Labour didn't do particularly well in the GM Council elections. But Burnham appears to have side-stepped Labour's toxicity. It should be noted that back in October when the government were trying to lock us down - with the cheerful backing of the national labour party - Burnham led the resistance. Unsuccessfully, of course, but at least he looked as if he sort of tried.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
That doesn't surprise me.
Very well-off people often do high-risk small-scale swindles.
Antony Worrall Thompson did shoplifting too, and when caught said it was for the excitement because he felt empty and depressed.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
Holy Shit, the Greens almost certainly missed out on List seats in Glasgow and South of Scotland due to scum bag party "Independent Green Voice" taking a stack of votes on the List.
If the Greens had got 115 more votes in the South of Scotland they'd have taken the 7th placed list position. Independent Green Voice got 1690 votes.
Is that kind of description even allowed under electoral commission rules?
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
Way back when, worked for a national college bookstore chain, and went flying on company business from New Orleans to Omaha via Denver (don't ask why!) Waiting for my connection in Denver was offered a free-ticket voucher in return for being voluntarily bumped of my scheduled flight to the Big O.
Which I accepted, calculating that my odds of getting on the next plane and to Nebraska in time for my meeting were positive. And it worked!
Told my boss about it, she was a wee bit displeased but since I made the confab, no harm no foul.
Used that ticket to visit Seattle, and look for a another job, in politics - and much to my surprise, found one. And the rest as they say is history.
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
Yes, and Burnham is the mayor of Greater Manchester, not just Manchester. And a lot of GM is pretty red-wall-ish. Leigh, and Heywood and Middleton for example. Labour didn't do particularly well in the GM Council elections. But Burnham appears to have side-stepped Labour's toxicity. It should be noted that back in October when the government were trying to lock us down - with the cheerful backing of the national labour party - Burnham led the resistance. Unsuccessfully, of course, but at least he looked as if he sort of tried.
Burnham was in favour of lockdown, just with more financial support than was being offered until London also fell into the same level of lockdown.
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Sturgeon pays herself more than Boris gets - a big wage doesn't always bring a better outcome for the public.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
So how did you catch them?
The joy with open tickets is that you can jump on any train whereas with an advance purchase ticket you have to stick to a certain train, miss the latter train and you can be out of pocket for £200 or so.
So at a couple of meetings they had in London they ended the meetings very quickly to catch a certain train and a couple of clients weren't happy, it was fed back to us and investigation was launched.
We noticed in some case files he had printed out his travel itinerary and from the Virgin Trains account it was clear he was using advance purchase trains.
I asked for his login details and he confessed that he'd been doing it for under a year.
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Absolutely right in what you say. I have never risen above middle management in my career but, at times, I have earned more than an MP. It’s mad.
They've been announcing second preferences as they go along at each of the 14 results, although they do include second preferences such as Johnson 1, Khan 2, and vice versa, which will need to be excluded from the final result.
Who's been knocked out so far and what was the order of ejection ?
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
So how did you catch them?
The joy with open tickets is that you can jump on any train whereas with an advance purchase ticket you have to stick to a certain train, miss the latter train and you can be out of pocket for £200 or so.
So at a couple of meetings they had in London they ended the meetings very quickly to catch a certain train and a couple of clients weren't happy, it was fed back to us and investigation was launched.
We noticed in some case files he had printed out his travel itinerary and from the Virgin Trains account it was clear he was using advance purchase trains.
I asked for his login details and he confessed that he'd been doing it for under a year.
The moral of the story is that if you do this, book the last train back.
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Congratulations Ian, good to see a number of us are now or have been in the PB town councillor club
Perhaps PBers actually elected to councils, or anything else, could comprise a PB Privy Council?
With a brief but formal meeting in the jacks (coed) at the next great PB get-together!
Ah, but only District/Borough/Unitaries and Counties count as ‘principal’ councils, so I think the pb Privy Council will comprise solely of Nick Palmer and my own illustrious self. I can happily live with that but as Counties are the Upper Tier, I bag myself as its Lord Serene and Most Exalted High President.
Privy Council is outside the normal democratic structures :-).
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Blood hell! A sensible post that I agree with.
I would only add that as a quid pro quo being an MP should be a full-time job, so with the good salary there should be a duty not to take on other paid work that consumes time.
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
I mean sure, make the man who buys Armani suits the Labour leader and lets see how well he does in Rotherham, Sheffield, Hartlepool, Southampton.
Just don't say I didn't warn you....
Curious. I didn't mention Burnham, and wouldn't, as it happens, want him as leader. I was merely correcting your factual inaccuracy, which you don't have the good grace to acknowledge.
It isn't an issue of good grace. You provided different information.
Rotherham is not very far from Manchester. Do you dispute Labour are being pummelled there? Conservatives just went from 0 to 20 seats.
And going back to the original post, and my earlier point, I find it fascinating how people seem to rate Burnham. I'm providing a counterpoint.
Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound · 1m Labour source claims that Jenny Chapman has been banned from Keir Starmer’s house on the orders of Starmer’s wife. The plot thickens
Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound · 23m Defend Jenny Chapman at all costs! That must be the main goal, I tell you. Who is this woman? What has she got on Starmer? A failed red wall MP who has shown no evidence she has any understanding of politics
Patrick Maguire @patrickkmaguire · 27m Shadow cabinet source on sackings to come: "People engaging in sustained briefing against staff who can’t defend themselves should be looking over their shoulders."👀
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, protects you from plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
'Protects you from plebs and oiks', presumably that is the same reason you now vote LD, so you can remain in a small group of elitist snobs without having to mix with the now Tory voting masses?
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, protects you from plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
'Protects you from plebs and oiks', presumably that is the same reason you now vote LD, so you can remain in a small group of elitist snobs without having to mix with the now Tory voting masses?
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
£12000 a year and a believe they wouldn't be caught
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
That's up to 26k if you allow for tax on salary. Even if you earn a lot of money that is a lot for say 12 hours work a year.
Boris should "make a generous offer" of full fiscal autonomy.....and with "all the money they send to England" staying in Scotland surely they'll be better off?
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
Can you really tell savings on a credit check?? I thought it only showed loans along with address type info?
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
There's north and really north. There's red wall and Red Wall. There's Brexit supporting and Brexit believing.
When I spent some time living in a Little West Yorkshire Town, it felt connected to the outside world. You could hop on a train to Leeds, to Manchester, to London if you travelled at the right time of day. There's a massive mental difference between that and the sort of really deep north places like Hartlepool, which are really disconnected.
The same thing works further south. The point about Clacton is how far it is from anywhere. Even the bit of Southern Hampshire where I grew up felt far enough from London for it to be another world.
In terms of the politics, anywhere with a tenuous link to London is probably a better bet for not-Conservatives than places totally cut off.
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Absolutely right in what you say. I have never risen above middle management in my career but, at times, I have earned more than an MP. It’s mad.
We've also made it progressively harder for MPs and Ministers to earn money outside Parliament. I get that it's good to have a transparent, honest political system, but by forcing down their earnings we are making politics a job for the already-rich and the upper middle classes (even more than it is now). Poorer people shy away from a job that pays badly and requires intense resilience and hard work
Pay them a big generous salary. £150k a year for MPs, £200k for Ministers, £250k for Cabinet Ministers, £300k for the PM. Give them free travel on nice trains
But clamp down on everything apart from that. If you are making £3k a week as an MP you really DO NOT need to fiddle anything else.
Make it generous but clear. You earn well, you have an important job, do it as best you can, but don't fuck around with any expenses bullshit, or you're out
Sorted
We only have 650 MPs. They rule our lives - even more so post Brexit. We want the best
Boris should "make a generous offer" of full fiscal autonomy.....and with "all the money they send to England" staying in Scotland surely they'll be better off?
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Would tend to agree. But legislative pay is ALWAYS a very hot potato.
First time US Congress voted to raise its pay (forty years after it was first set) the voters did NOT take it well. In fact, they threw out 3/4 of House members who voted for it.
Henry Clay was one survivor, but barely. During the subsequent election, he went home to Lexington, Kentucky to campaign. And quickly discovered the depths of voter backlash.
Story is told, that he went to a local barber, a fellow Whig and strong supporter, to get a shave and a trim.
"Well, old friend," Clay said, "at least I'm glad that I can still count on YOUR support!"
To which the barber replied, stropping the strap with his razor, "I wouldn't be so sure if I were you!"
Fast-forwarding to today, note that the Washington State Legislature found a clever way around the problem - a citizens' elected officials salary commission.
Ten voters are picked randomly, one from each congressional district. And after being brief/barraged on the need for higher salaries, they invariably give in and recommend increase. Which go into effect automatically UNLESS vetoed by the legislature.
Which you may - or may not- be surprised to learn, has never happened!
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
£12000 a year and a believe they wouldn't be caught
I encountered a chap who liked to get others peoples expenses investigated as a corporate political tactic. When the tables were turned on him - guess what? All the stupid kinds of fraud. I thought the numerous Black Cab receipts from the same pad, with the same handwriting, over a period of years was especially... something.
Holy Shit, the Greens almost certainly missed out on List seats in Glasgow and South of Scotland due to scum bag party "Independent Green Voice" taking a stack of votes on the List.
If the Greens had got 115 more votes in the South of Scotland they'd have taken the 7th placed list position. Independent Green Voice got 1690 votes.
That’s the Holocaust denier McConnachie’s mob isn’t it? For once the term green fascist is richly deserved. 1690 votes is most serendipitous.
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
I mean sure, make the man who buys Armani suits the Labour leader and lets see how well he does in Rotherham, Sheffield, Hartlepool, Southampton.
Just don't say I didn't warn you....
Curious. I didn't mention Burnham, and wouldn't, as it happens, want him as leader. I was merely correcting your factual inaccuracy, which you don't have the good grace to acknowledge.
It isn't an issue of good grace. You provided different information.
Rotherham is not very far from Manchester. Do you dispute Labour are being pummelled there? Conservatives just went from 0 to 20 seats.
And going back to the original post, and my earlier point, I find it fascinating how people seem to rate Burnham. I'm providing a counterpoint.
Rotherham is in South Yorkshire, not in the North West. Labour were thrashed in Rotherham. But we were talking about the North West, and as I said Labour did pretty well in many areas around but outside the City of Manchester. But never mind.
Holy Shit, the Greens almost certainly missed out on List seats in Glasgow and South of Scotland due to scum bag party "Independent Green Voice" taking a stack of votes on the List.
If the Greens had got 115 more votes in the South of Scotland they'd have taken the 7th placed list position. Independent Green Voice got 1690 votes.
Is that kind of description even allowed under electoral commission rules?
Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound · 1m Labour source claims that Jenny Chapman has been banned from Keir Starmer’s house on the orders of Starmer’s wife. The plot thickens
Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound · 23m Defend Jenny Chapman at all costs! That must be the main goal, I tell you. Who is this woman? What has she got on Starmer? A failed red wall MP who has shown no evidence she has any understanding of politics
Patrick Maguire @patrickkmaguire · 27m Shadow cabinet source on sackings to come: "People engaging in sustained briefing against staff who can’t defend themselves should be looking over their shoulders."👀
More of this kind of BS and less about the election results = good news for Keir Starmer.
Holy Shit, the Greens almost certainly missed out on List seats in Glasgow and South of Scotland due to scum bag party "Independent Green Voice" taking a stack of votes on the List.
If the Greens had got 115 more votes in the South of Scotland they'd have taken the 7th placed list position. Independent Green Voice got 1690 votes.
Is that kind of description even allowed under electoral commission rules?
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
£12000 a year and a believe they wouldn't be caught
I encountered a chap who liked to get others peoples expenses investigated as a corporate political tactic. When the tables were turned on him - guess what? All the stupid kinds of fraud. I thought the numerous Black Cab receipts from the same pad, with the same handwriting, over a period of years was especially... something.
Whenever you need to reduce staff numbers and want to save on redundancy costs the first thing to do is an expenses audit.
Holy Shit, the Greens almost certainly missed out on List seats in Glasgow and South of Scotland due to scum bag party "Independent Green Voice" taking a stack of votes on the List.
If the Greens had got 115 more votes in the South of Scotland they'd have taken the 7th placed list position. Independent Green Voice got 1690 votes.
Is that kind of description even allowed under electoral commission rules?
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Absolutely,right. Also with advance fares you can get it cheaper,than std class.
It’s a petty criticism.
Personally, I would double or triple MPs wages, and do the same for ministers or prime ministers. Let the Prime Minister of the UK earn £300,000 a year. He's running an entire country. And a big important country, at that. CEOs of minor charities earn more than the present PM. It is ridiculous. Little Davey Miliband earns £1m in a charity at NYC - and he's utterly useless
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Blood hell! A sensible post that I agree with.
I would only add that as a quid pro quo being an MP should be a full-time job, so with the good salary there should be a duty not to take on other paid work that consumes time.
Yes, I entirely agree, in return
A rarity!
The governing principle should be: being an MP - one of just 650 for the whole UK - is a really, really important job. We want the best, so it pays well. Easy six figures. £150-200k. And if you go on to minister or shadow minister, £250k a year or more
BUT the quid pro quo is: NO outside earnings during that time. As you say.
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
I once sacked someone over their first class ticket use.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
1. Employee pockets an extra c.£1,000 a month through fraud. 2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I think it is my mentality, I couldn't do anything illegal because it is a career ender for me and the scandal would kill my mother.
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
The thrill. People who do it secretly feel they don't have the power they feel they should have; this gives them that feeling because they're pulling the wool over the eyes of their boss and others.
We had to sack three contractors at Crossrail who were double-charging their timesheets, booking five days a week to us and five days a week to another client in Toronto at the same time.
Comments
Provisional result: Tower Hamlets residents have voted to keep the role of a directly elected Mayor, in a governance referendum held on 6 May.
Voters backed the current system of governance by 63,029 votes to 17,951 votes, with 3,444 spoiled ballots. The turnout was 41.79%
On mercifully only one occasion, I had to sack someone. It took 2 years, and a whole palaver of verbal warnings, written warnings, meetings with HR & appeals. By the time I succeeded, the grant had expired anyhow.
In the real world -- as opposed to Starmer-land -- you can't just sack someone for such a stupid reason.
Starmer imposed the candidate AFAIK, and I agree with @bigjohnowls that the candidate was an abysmal match to Hartlepool.
It’s a petty criticism.
My employer is very generous on things like rail tickets, so a first class open return from Manchester to Euston is around £360.
One employee used to buy those tickets and reclaim them on expenses.
Turned out they'd buy them then refund them so they'd get £350 back (£360 less the £10 admin fee) and buy first class advance tickets for £25 a pop, so they'd be making a profit of £300 a time and this was someone who probably went to London 3/4 times a month.
The really strange thing? They were earning a six figure salary and their regular credit reports showed they weren't in debt other than a mortgage which was manageable for them.
Talking of crass and stupid this,criticism of her for using first class. So,what if she does. I don’t see the problem here.
...sure.
Just don't say I didn't warn you....
The person sacked should have been in Accounts, for not buying £25 advance tickets.
Best wishes
Trafford and Bury (Bury authority is much more than the town of Bury) are heavily focused economically on Manc, if Manc had a similar setup of local authorities as Brum they'd be the same authority).
Wigan and Preston obviously much less so.
If the Greens had got 115 more votes in the South of Scotland they'd have taken the 7th placed list position. Independent Green Voice got 1690 votes.
Right decision @TSE.
We are saddled with inept mediocrities at Westminster because that's the level of salary we offer, the kind of wages that attracts awkward incompetents. Westminster used to get round this by the huge expenses-fiddling nonsense but that's been rumbled, so now the MPs really are reduced to pretty crap wages (by the standards of high powered London jobs) - so we need to increase the wages
We want to attract the best people to a tough demanding job where they will face fierce criticism daily. Who is going to do that for £80k a year if they can earn three or five times that elsewhere?
We have just 600-odd MPs. Pay Them Well so we get Lots of Smart People
Labour didn't do particularly well in the GM Council elections.
But Burnham appears to have side-stepped Labour's toxicity.
It should be noted that back in October when the government were trying to lock us down - with the cheerful backing of the national labour party - Burnham led the resistance. Unsuccessfully, of course, but at least he looked as if he sort of tried.
Very well-off people often do high-risk small-scale swindles.
Antony Worrall Thompson did shoplifting too, and when caught said it was for the excitement because he felt empty and depressed.
2. You think that it's a "really strange thing" that they're not in debt? Thieves often aren't.
I've seen somewhere else he's planning to promote Jess Philipps and Wes Streeting, too.
Which I accepted, calculating that my odds of getting on the next plane and to Nebraska in time for my meeting were positive. And it worked!
Told my boss about it, she was a wee bit displeased but since I made the confab, no harm no foul.
Used that ticket to visit Seattle, and look for a another job, in politics - and much to my surprise, found one. And the rest as they say is history.
https://twitter.com/parcelorogues/status/1391104054449815559
So at a couple of meetings they had in London they ended the meetings very quickly to catch a certain train and a couple of clients weren't happy, it was fed back to us and investigation was launched.
We noticed in some case files he had printed out his travel itinerary and from the Virgin Trains account it was clear he was using advance purchase trains.
I asked for his login details and he confessed that he'd been doing it for under a year.
Absolutely right in what you say. I have never risen above middle management in my career but, at times, I have earned more than an MP. It’s mad.
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1391131442235772928
Woke and BAME combo staying loyal?
I would only add that as a quid pro quo being an MP should be a full-time job, so with the good salary there should be a duty not to take on other paid work that consumes time.
It isn't an issue of good grace. You provided different information.
Rotherham is not very far from Manchester. Do you dispute Labour are being pummelled there? Conservatives just went from 0 to 20 seats.
And going back to the original post, and my earlier point, I find it fascinating how people seem to rate Burnham. I'm providing a counterpoint.
That was the time to complain, I'm afraid.
@ShippersUnbound
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1m
Labour source claims that Jenny Chapman has been banned from Keir Starmer’s house on the orders of Starmer’s wife. The plot thickens
Tim Shipman
@ShippersUnbound
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23m
Defend Jenny Chapman at all costs! That must be the main goal, I tell you. Who is this woman? What has she got on Starmer? A failed red wall MP who has shown no evidence she has any understanding of politics
Patrick Maguire
@patrickkmaguire
· 27m
Shadow cabinet source on sackings to come: "People engaging in sustained briefing against staff who can’t defend themselves should be looking over their shoulders."👀
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1391131442235772928?s=20
What is going on
For me it is a case of why take the risk? As I said we do credit checks on certain employees, and it showed he had close to six figures in savings.
Why would anyone risk their career, the wellbeing of their family for this?
The Labour Party.
Tim Shipman
@ShippersUnbound
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1h
An old Labour chum messages: "The man is as f**king stupid as he is boring."
Boris should "make a generous offer" of full fiscal autonomy.....and with "all the money they send to England" staying in Scotland surely they'll be better off?
When I spent some time living in a Little West Yorkshire Town, it felt connected to the outside world. You could hop on a train to Leeds, to Manchester, to London if you travelled at the right time of day. There's a massive mental difference between that and the sort of really deep north places like Hartlepool, which are really disconnected.
The same thing works further south. The point about Clacton is how far it is from anywhere. Even the bit of Southern Hampshire where I grew up felt far enough from London for it to be another world.
In terms of the politics, anywhere with a tenuous link to London is probably a better bet for not-Conservatives than places totally cut off.
Pay them a big generous salary. £150k a year for MPs, £200k for Ministers, £250k for Cabinet Ministers, £300k for the PM. Give them free travel on nice trains
But clamp down on everything apart from that. If you are making £3k a week as an MP you really DO NOT need to fiddle anything else.
Make it generous but clear. You earn well, you have an important job, do it as best you can, but don't fuck around with any expenses bullshit, or you're out
Sorted
We only have 650 MPs. They rule our lives - even more so post Brexit. We want the best
First time US Congress voted to raise its pay (forty years after it was first set) the voters did NOT take it well. In fact, they threw out 3/4 of House members who voted for it.
Henry Clay was one survivor, but barely. During the subsequent election, he went home to Lexington, Kentucky to campaign. And quickly discovered the depths of voter backlash.
Story is told, that he went to a local barber, a fellow Whig and strong supporter, to get a shave and a trim.
"Well, old friend," Clay said, "at least I'm glad that I can still count on YOUR support!"
To which the barber replied, stropping the strap with his razor, "I wouldn't be so sure if I were you!"
Fast-forwarding to today, note that the Washington State Legislature found a clever way around the problem - a citizens' elected officials salary commission.
Ten voters are picked randomly, one from each congressional district. And after being brief/barraged on the need for higher salaries, they invariably give in and recommend increase. Which go into effect automatically UNLESS vetoed by the legislature.
Which you may - or may not- be surprised to learn, has never happened!
1690 votes is most serendipitous.
A rarity!
The governing principle should be: being an MP - one of just 650 for the whole UK - is a really, really important job. We want the best, so it pays well. Easy six figures. £150-200k. And if you go on to minister or shadow minister, £250k a year or more
BUT the quid pro quo is: NO outside earnings during that time. As you say.
You're a well paid MP. Focus on your job
We had to sack three contractors at Crossrail who were double-charging their timesheets, booking five days a week to us and five days a week to another client in Toronto at the same time.