After a disappointing set of results for LAB one figure appears to have bucked the trend – political

TheWhiteRabbit said:

AndreaParma_82 said:

In London only City & East (aka Newham and Tower Hamlets) to declare

So far
Khan 39.4%
Bailey 36%

Well known marginal, City & East

FrankBooth said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

AndreaParma_82 said:

Final Holyrood standings

SNP 64 (+1)
Conservative 31 (nc)
Labour 22 (-2)
Green 8 (+2)
Lib Dem 4 (-1)

Well, that's a pro-indy majority gone up, with explicit statements thereof in the party's manifestoes.

Bit hard cheese on the LDs who lose their funding.

I remember excitable Nat predictions of a 15-30 pro-indy supermajority when Alba kicked off.

Instead the SNP failed to get an overall majority. Just a few months back that majority was regarded as certain. So much so I was shouted down, here, for suggesting otherwise.

Moreover, there were more unionist votes than indy votes.

Boris should bat aside any indy request, very very politely. There is no huge surge to indy. The polls say most people will vote NO, the same polls, even more emphatically, say most Scots don't want a vote any time soon

The SNP are trying to reframe this somewhat disappointing outcome as a significant win. It is anything but

A record turnout. A record SNP vote. A record number of pro-indy MSPs who have a comfortable majority. Yeah, its a massive win for the union...

If there is any hope of stopping independence it has to be a new constitutional settlement that gives the nations the autonomy they increasingly demand. Or, arrogantly say that only the Tory majority in England counts, and then scratch your head when the UK ceases to exist in a few years.

How about offering the SNP full fiscal autonomy?

Theuniondivvie said:

Carnyx said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Time_to_Leave said:

RochdalePioneers said:

HYUFD said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.

Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.

52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015

Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.

You really are a tool aren't you.

Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?

The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.

The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.

Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.

1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order
2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down
3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament

Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.

As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.

But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.

To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.

Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.

I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.

Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.

Almost none at Westminster.
MInority at Holyrood.

To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.

Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.

What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

New level of toxicity
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

AndreaParma_82 said:

Final Holyrood standings

SNP 64 (+1)
Conservative 31 (nc)
Labour 22 (-2)
Green 8 (+2)
Lib Dem 4 (-1)

Well, that's a pro-indy majority gone up, with explicit statements thereof in the party's manifestoes.

Bit hard cheese on the LDs who lose their funding.

I remember excitable Nat predictions of a 15-30 pro-indy supermajority when Alba kicked off.

Instead the SNP failed to get an overall majority. Just a few months back that majority was regarded as certain. So much so I was shouted down, here, for suggesting otherwise.

Moreover, there were more unionist votes than indy votes.

Boris should bat aside any indy request, very very politely. There is no huge surge to indy. The polls say most people will vote NO, the same polls, even more emphatically, say most Scots don't want a vote any time soon

The SNP are trying to reframe this somewhat disappointing outcome as a significant win. It is anything but

A record turnout. A record SNP vote. A record number of pro-indy MSPs who have a comfortable majority. Yeah, its a massive win for the union...

If there is any hope of stopping independence it has to be a new constitutional settlement that gives the nations the autonomy they increasingly demand. Or, arrogantly say that only the Tory majority in England counts, and then scratch your head when the UK ceases to exist in a few years.

RobD said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

New level of toxicity
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

First class tickets to avoid murderers who frequent second class? What an excuse.

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Carnyx said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Time_to_Leave said:

RochdalePioneers said:

HYUFD said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.

Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.

52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015

Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.

You really are a tool aren't you.

Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?

The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.

The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.

Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.

1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order
2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down
3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament

Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.

As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.

But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.

To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.

Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.

I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.

Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.

Almost none at Westminster.
MInority at Holyrood.

To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.

Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.

What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?

Except that it's England/Westminster which is on top, and has the brute political power, and can fuck little Scotland whenever it likes. So your analogy is not really very accurate, is it?

You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again

It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved

tlg86 said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

New level of toxicity
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

First class protects you from psychopathic killers?

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Carnyx said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Time_to_Leave said:

RochdalePioneers said:

HYUFD said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.

Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.

52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015

Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.

You really are a tool aren't you.

Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?

The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.

The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.

Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.

1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order
2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down
3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament

Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.

As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.

But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.

To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.

Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.

I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.

Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.

Almost none at Westminster.
MInority at Holyrood.

To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.

Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.

What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?

And yet, when given the chance to leave in 2014, they still said "Fuck the SNP and its independence...."

That must hurt. In the butt region.

Tiny dick, not very hurt butt, as the old saying goes.

CarlottaVance said:

Not exactly "recovery first":

CarlottaVance said:

Not exactly "recovery first":

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

New level of toxicity
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

First class protects you from psychopathic killers?

Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.

AndreaParma_82 said:

In London only City & East (aka Newham and Tower Hamlets) to declare

So far
Khan 39.4%
Bailey 36%

JohnO said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.

A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.

Congratulations Ian, good to see a number of us are now or have been in the PB town councillor club

Perhaps PBers actually elected to councils, or anything else, could comprise a PB Privy Council?

With a brief but formal meeting in the jacks (coed) at the next great PB get-together!

Ah, but only District/Borough/Unitaries and Counties count as ‘principal’ councils, so I think the pb Privy Council will comprise solely of Nick Palmer and my own illustrious self. I can happily live with that but as Counties are the Upper Tier, I bag myself as its Lord Serene and Most Exalted High President.

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not exactly "recovery first":

Whether you agree with the message or not, whoever is editing this rag REALLY knows their beans.

Every front page I've seen posted on here so far has been outstanding.

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Carnyx said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Time_to_Leave said:

RochdalePioneers said:

HYUFD said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.

Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.

52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015

Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.

You really are a tool aren't you.

Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?

The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.

The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.

Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.

1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order
2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down
3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament

Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.

As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.

But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.

To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.

Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.

I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.

Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.

Almost none at Westminster.
MInority at Holyrood.

To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.

Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.

What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?

Except that it's England/Westminster which is on top, and has the brute political power, and can fuck little Scotland whenever it likes. So your analogy is not really very accurate, is it?

You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again

It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved

Time_to_Leave said:

MarqueeMark said:

Are we expecting any polling tonight?

"Boris Johnson - complete legend or what?"

They did a big one on Thursday but the sampling feels a bit dodgy to me, and the processing is taking ages.

WhisperingOracle said:

Leon said:

It's time to be done with this Scottish nonsense

We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT

Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally

Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly


That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week

Saturday night drinks again ?

Andy_JS said:

AndreaParma_82 said:

Cambridgeshire/Peterborough Mayor

- Johnson (Labour & Co-Operative Party): 113994
- Palmer (The Conservative Party): 108195

Just goes to show that Boris wins no matter which party he stands for. He's that amazing.

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

IanB2 said:

Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.

A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.

Congratulations.

I trust the pizza is free of improper toppings.

It’s my favourite, Waitrose goats cheese and spinach. I am sure Carrie Antoinette wouldn’t approve, but **** her.

eek said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

New level of toxicity
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

First class protects you from psychopathic killers?

Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.

I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working

but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..

Leon said:

It's time to be done with this Scottish nonsense

We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT

Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally

Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly


That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week

Sunil_Prasannan said:

IanB2 said:

ydoethur said:

IanB2 said:

Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.

A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.

Congratulations.

I trust the pizza is free of improper toppings.

It’s my favourite, Waitrose goats cheese and spinach. I am sure Carrie Antoinette wouldn’t approve, but **** her.

I'm not THAT desperate!

SandyRentool said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

New level of toxicity
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

If only she'd claimed that there were no seats and sat on the floor she'd have been fine.

MarqueeMark said:

Andy_JS said:

AndreaParma_82 said:

Cambridgeshire/Peterborough Mayor

- Johnson (Labour & Co-Operative Party): 113994
- Palmer (The Conservative Party): 108195

Just goes to show that Boris wins no matter which party he stands for. He's that amazing.

Even Chuck Norris would lose to Boris.....

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

JohnO said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.

A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.

Congratulations Ian, good to see a number of us are now or have been in the PB town councillor club

Perhaps PBers actually elected to councils, or anything else, could comprise a PB Privy Council?

With a brief but formal meeting in the jacks (coed) at the next great PB get-together!

Ah, but only District/Borough/Unitaries and Counties count as ‘principal’ councils, so I think the pb Privy Council will comprise solely of Nick Palmer and my own illustrious self. I can happily live with that but as Counties are the Upper Tier, I bag myself as its Lord Serene and Most Exalted High President.

Congrats, John, from a fellow (sort of) Irishman!

Keep forgetting just how class conscious you English really are!

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Carnyx said:

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Time_to_Leave said:

RochdalePioneers said:

HYUFD said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.

I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.

Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.

Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.

52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015

Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.

You really are a tool aren't you.

Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?

The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.

The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.

Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.

1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order
2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down
3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament

Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.

As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.

But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.

To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.

Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.

I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.

Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.

Almost none at Westminster.
MInority at Holyrood.

To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.

Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.

What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?

Except that it's England/Westminster which is on top, and has the brute political power, and can fuck little Scotland whenever it likes. So your analogy is not really very accurate, is it?

You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again

It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved

There's poor taste posts... and then there's shite like this.

Trivialising gender-based violence is never a good look.

Leon said:

It's time to be done with this Scottish nonsense

We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT

Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally

Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly


That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week

felix said:

In London Bailey has outperformed most of the polling by some distance on First preferences.

squareroot2 said:

Its great fun watching the left fighting one another.. and its only the beginning. .

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

New level of toxicity
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

Mortimer said:

On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.

In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.

I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.

Casino_Royale said:

Leon said:

It's time to be done with this Scottish nonsense

We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT

Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally

Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly


That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week

What time did you decide to hit the sauce in the end?

noneoftheabove said:

YBarddCwsc said:

noneoftheabove said:

Scott_xP said:

EXC: Angela Rayner was sacked hours after opponents leaked info about her conduct on the campaign trail — incl her using 1st class train tickets

Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder

New level of toxicity
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0

I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.

But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.

Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!

If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.

Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.

If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf

If they dont think it is appropriate for someone that senior to travel 1st class, surely an obvious policy would be to abolish it. Is it just for the Queen?