“Keir Starmer said yesterday that he took full responsibility for the election result in Hartlepool & other losses. Instead today he’s scapegoating everyone apart from himself. This isn’t leadership it’s a cowardly avoidance of responsibility.”
SNP 64 (+1) Conservative 31 (nc) Labour 22 (-2) Green 8 (+2) Lib Dem 4 (-1)
Well, that's a pro-indy majority gone up, with explicit statements thereof in the party's manifestoes.
Bit hard cheese on the LDs who lose their funding.
I remember excitable Nat predictions of a 15-30 pro-indy supermajority when Alba kicked off.
Instead the SNP failed to get an overall majority. Just a few months back that majority was regarded as certain. So much so I was shouted down, here, for suggesting otherwise.
Moreover, there were more unionist votes than indy votes.
Boris should bat aside any indy request, very very politely. There is no huge surge to indy. The polls say most people will vote NO, the same polls, even more emphatically, say most Scots don't want a vote any time soon
The SNP are trying to reframe this somewhat disappointing outcome as a significant win. It is anything but
A record turnout. A record SNP vote. A record number of pro-indy MSPs who have a comfortable majority. Yeah, its a massive win for the union...
If there is any hope of stopping independence it has to be a new constitutional settlement that gives the nations the autonomy they increasingly demand. Or, arrogantly say that only the Tory majority in England counts, and then scratch your head when the UK ceases to exist in a few years.
When Holyrood passes the referendum bill the government either overrules and stops it, OR it becomes an officially sanctioned referendum. They can't just ignore it, otherwise the Queen sticks her signature on the bill and the referendum is official.
The Scotland Act specifically states that any bill passed by the Scottish Parliament that deals with reserved matters has no force in law, so I doubt the Queen would ever see a copy. The Government doesn't have to 'block' it as such, since the first legal challenge would kill it stone dead. Presumably a pro-Union organisation in Scotland would be primed to ask for a judicial ruling on the bill.
It has to be overruled by the SofS or thrown out by the Supreme Court to have no force in law. Otherwise it becomes law.
Didn’t know about the first one. Surely that dooms it anyway? Is Alister Jack really going to wave it through?
Doubt it! Which means England tells Scotland that having voted for something that it has no rights to have it. Which guarantees independence. Take back control remember...
Ummm - minor point but Alister Jack isn’t English.
I know that! But he is the Secretary of State for Scotland doing England's bidding on this issue.
We had this discussion this morning. He's the Uk Secretary of State for Scotland carrying out the UK's policy on this issue.
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Congratulations Ian, good to see a number of us are now or have been in the PB town councillor club
Perhaps PBers actually elected to councils, or anything else, could comprise a PB Privy Council?
With a brief but formal meeting in the jacks (coed) at the next great PB get-together!
Ah, but only District/Borough/Unitaries and Counties count as ‘principal’ councils, so I think the pb Privy Council will comprise solely of Nick Palmer and my own illustrious self. I can happily live with that but as Counties are the Upper Tier, I bag myself as its Lord Serene and Most Exalted High President.
SNP 64 (+1) Conservative 31 (nc) Labour 22 (-2) Green 8 (+2) Lib Dem 4 (-1)
Well, that's a pro-indy majority gone up, with explicit statements thereof in the party's manifestoes.
Bit hard cheese on the LDs who lose their funding.
I remember excitable Nat predictions of a 15-30 pro-indy supermajority when Alba kicked off.
Instead the SNP failed to get an overall majority. Just a few months back that majority was regarded as certain. So much so I was shouted down, here, for suggesting otherwise.
Moreover, there were more unionist votes than indy votes.
Boris should bat aside any indy request, very very politely. There is no huge surge to indy. The polls say most people will vote NO, the same polls, even more emphatically, say most Scots don't want a vote any time soon
The SNP are trying to reframe this somewhat disappointing outcome as a significant win. It is anything but
A record turnout. A record SNP vote. A record number of pro-indy MSPs who have a comfortable majority. Yeah, its a massive win for the union...
If there is any hope of stopping independence it has to be a new constitutional settlement that gives the nations the autonomy they increasingly demand. Or, arrogantly say that only the Tory majority in England counts, and then scratch your head when the UK ceases to exist in a few years.
Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.
I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.
Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.
You really are a tool aren't you.
Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?
The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.
The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.
Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.
1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order 2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down 3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament
Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.
As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.
But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.
To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.
Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.
I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.
Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.
Almost none at Westminster. MInority at Holyrood.
To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.
Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.
What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?
Except that it's England/Westminster which is on top, and has the brute political power, and can fuck little Scotland whenever it likes. So your analogy is not really very accurate, is it?
You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again
It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved
SNP 64 (+1) Conservative 31 (nc) Labour 22 (-2) Green 8 (+2) Lib Dem 4 (-1)
Well, that's a pro-indy majority gone up, with explicit statements thereof in the party's manifestoes.
Bit hard cheese on the LDs who lose their funding.
I remember excitable Nat predictions of a 15-30 pro-indy supermajority when Alba kicked off.
Instead the SNP failed to get an overall majority. Just a few months back that majority was regarded as certain. So much so I was shouted down, here, for suggesting otherwise.
Moreover, there were more unionist votes than indy votes.
Boris should bat aside any indy request, very very politely. There is no huge surge to indy. The polls say most people will vote NO, the same polls, even more emphatically, say most Scots don't want a vote any time soon
The SNP are trying to reframe this somewhat disappointing outcome as a significant win. It is anything but
A record turnout. A record SNP vote. A record number of pro-indy MSPs who have a comfortable majority. Yeah, its a massive win for the union...
If there is any hope of stopping independence it has to be a new constitutional settlement that gives the nations the autonomy they increasingly demand. Or, arrogantly say that only the Tory majority in England counts, and then scratch your head when the UK ceases to exist in a few years.
Let the SNP set out their plan for independence first, that includes everything, economy, currency, border.
SNP 64 (+1) Conservative 31 (nc) Labour 22 (-2) Green 8 (+2) Lib Dem 4 (-1)
Well, that's a pro-indy majority gone up, with explicit statements thereof in the party's manifestoes.
Bit hard cheese on the LDs who lose their funding.
I remember excitable Nat predictions of a 15-30 pro-indy supermajority when Alba kicked off.
Instead the SNP failed to get an overall majority. Just a few months back that majority was regarded as certain. So much so I was shouted down, here, for suggesting otherwise.
Moreover, there were more unionist votes than indy votes.
Boris should bat aside any indy request, very very politely. There is no huge surge to indy. The polls say most people will vote NO, the same polls, even more emphatically, say most Scots don't want a vote any time soon
The SNP are trying to reframe this somewhat disappointing outcome as a significant win. It is anything but
It's not a loss, either. And remember the indy vote was stuck at about 25% before the last referendum. So why did Mr Cameron hold it then? All the more reason to have it now.
It's just not going to happen under Boris, so that's it until 2023 or 2024. I reckon Boris and the Tories will win again then, so that's probably it til about 2028.
Your alternative is revolution. Go for it.
It is not a Scotland only question. If it were the Scotland Act would have allowed the Scotland parliament to authorise a referendum without Westminster also legislating. The intention of the deal is plainly that something more than a Scottish mandate is required. The argument and tactics are bound to be in that area. For example: Westminster might draw attention to voting patterns and polling evidence not only about how people would vote but also about whether they actually want a referendum.
Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.
I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.
Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.
You really are a tool aren't you.
Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?
The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.
The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.
Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.
1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order 2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down 3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament
Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.
As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.
But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.
To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.
Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.
I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.
Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.
Almost none at Westminster. MInority at Holyrood.
To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.
Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.
What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?
Except that it's England/Westminster which is on top, and has the brute political power, and can fuck little Scotland whenever it likes. So your analogy is not really very accurate, is it?
You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again
It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved
Or Boris’s dad.
I see that you’re coping with Scotland drifting yet further away from project UK with your usual equanimity.
SNP 64 (+1) Conservative 31 (nc) Labour 22 (-2) Green 8 (+2) Lib Dem 4 (-1)
Well, that's a pro-indy majority gone up, with explicit statements thereof in the party's manifestoes.
Bit hard cheese on the LDs who lose their funding.
I remember excitable Nat predictions of a 15-30 pro-indy supermajority when Alba kicked off.
Instead the SNP failed to get an overall majority. Just a few months back that majority was regarded as certain. So much so I was shouted down, here, for suggesting otherwise.
Moreover, there were more unionist votes than indy votes.
Boris should bat aside any indy request, very very politely. There is no huge surge to indy. The polls say most people will vote NO, the same polls, even more emphatically, say most Scots don't want a vote any time soon
The SNP are trying to reframe this somewhat disappointing outcome as a significant win. It is anything but
A record turnout. A record SNP vote. A record number of pro-indy MSPs who have a comfortable majority. Yeah, its a massive win for the union...
If there is any hope of stopping independence it has to be a new constitutional settlement that gives the nations the autonomy they increasingly demand. Or, arrogantly say that only the Tory majority in England counts, and then scratch your head when the UK ceases to exist in a few years.
How about offering the SNP full fiscal autonomy?
They'll say thanks and then carry on as before.
That’s what I’d do. But sturgeon would never go for it.
Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.
I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.
Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.
You really are a tool aren't you.
Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?
The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.
The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.
Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.
1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order 2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down 3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament
Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.
As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.
But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.
To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.
Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.
I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.
Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.
Almost none at Westminster. MInority at Holyrood.
To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.
Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.
What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?
And yet, when given the chance to leave in 2014, they still said "Fuck the SNP and its independence...."
That must hurt. In the butt region.
Tiny dick, not very hurt butt, as the old saying goes.
SNP 64 (+1) Conservative 31 (nc) Labour 22 (-2) Green 8 (+2) Lib Dem 4 (-1)
Well, that's a pro-indy majority gone up, with explicit statements thereof in the party's manifestoes.
Bit hard cheese on the LDs who lose their funding.
I remember excitable Nat predictions of a 15-30 pro-indy supermajority when Alba kicked off.
Instead the SNP failed to get an overall majority. Just a few months back that majority was regarded as certain. So much so I was shouted down, here, for suggesting otherwise.
Moreover, there were more unionist votes than indy votes.
Boris should bat aside any indy request, very very politely. There is no huge surge to indy. The polls say most people will vote NO, the same polls, even more emphatically, say most Scots don't want a vote any time soon
The SNP are trying to reframe this somewhat disappointing outcome as a significant win. It is anything but
A record turnout. A record SNP vote. A record number of pro-indy MSPs who have a comfortable majority. Yeah, its a massive win for the union...
If there is any hope of stopping independence it has to be a new constitutional settlement that gives the nations the autonomy they increasingly demand. Or, arrogantly say that only the Tory majority in England counts, and then scratch your head when the UK ceases to exist in a few years.
How about offering the SNP full fiscal autonomy?
Never feed a crocodile, Danegeld, pay the mafia, negotiate with terrorists etc.
There is a saying "the more things change, the more they stay they same". The truth of course is the better way to ensure things stay the same is for them not to change at all.
The Scottish Parliament results are a victory for both Boris Johnson and Nicola Sturgeon precisely because nothing will change. She will demand a referendum she doesn't really want safe in the knowledge he will refuse it all day long.
She can then blame him and use that to bolster her own position. He can use his refusal to look like the champion of the Union and bolster his support. While the SNP and Conservative electorates continue to enjoy the spectacle, the Johnson/Sturgeon waltz will continue ad infinitum.
Mr Starmer may try to cut in but I suspect he will be given the brush off by Nicola - after all, she won't want the referendum he will offer unless she is absolutely certain she will win and at the moment (and I suspect for the foreseeable) that won't be the case.
Still waiting here for the last act of the London Mayoral drama to be played out. It does seem (and the East Ham Central by-election does support it) even London has not proven immune to Boris Johnson's advances or Keir Starmer's shortcomings (no sniggering in the cheap seats).
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.
I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.
Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.
You really are a tool aren't you.
Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?
The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.
The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.
Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.
1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order 2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down 3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament
Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.
As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.
But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.
To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.
Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.
I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.
Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.
Almost none at Westminster. MInority at Holyrood.
To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.
Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.
What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?
Except that it's England/Westminster which is on top, and has the brute political power, and can fuck little Scotland whenever it likes. So your analogy is not really very accurate, is it?
You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again
It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved
Or Boris’s dad.
I see that you’re coping with Scotland drifting yet further away from project UK with your usual equanimity.
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Congratulations Ian, good to see a number of us are now or have been in the PB town councillor club
Perhaps PBers actually elected to councils, or anything else, could comprise a PB Privy Council?
With a brief but formal meeting in the jacks (coed) at the next great PB get-together!
Ah, but only District/Borough/Unitaries and Counties count as ‘principal’ councils, so I think the pb Privy Council will comprise solely of Nick Palmer and my own illustrious self. I can happily live with that but as Counties are the Upper Tier, I bag myself as its Lord Serene and Most Exalted High President.
Congrats, John, from a fellow (sort of) Irishman!
Keep forgetting just how class conscious you English really are!
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
You wouldn't want to use a train - you might be sat opposite an SNP MP with Covid.....
Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.
I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.
Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.
You really are a tool aren't you.
Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?
The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.
The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.
Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.
1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order 2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down 3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament
Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.
As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.
But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.
To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.
Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.
I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.
Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.
Almost none at Westminster. MInority at Holyrood.
To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.
Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.
What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?
Except that it's England/Westminster which is on top, and has the brute political power, and can fuck little Scotland whenever it likes. So your analogy is not really very accurate, is it?
You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again
It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved
There's poor taste posts... and then there's shite like this.
Trivialising gender-based violence is never a good look.
We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT
Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally
Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly
That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week
I listened to Patrick Harvie, Scots green leader, tonight who indicted that there needs to be an open discussion on the merits of independence or staying in the union
It is true that Sturgeon wants to licence oil while the greens want it decommissioning and of course that is presently HMG responsibility
There us a long way to go on this, and of course in Holyrood Sturgeon will face a united opposition in the conservatives, labour and lib dems
Expect lots of shouting and accusations across the chamber to the dismay of most Scots, who want the attention on running the economy and not incessant constitutional arguments
Holyrood 2021 looks like it will be a very angry debating chamber from all sides, sadly
We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose theb populace with playful fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsman eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT
Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally
Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly
That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week
Forcing the Scots to look up Boris's kilt? You ARE an inhuman beast!
We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT
Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally
Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly
That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week
We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT
Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally
Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly
That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week
Saturday night drinks again ?
You won't believe me, but no. I am normally like this
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Congratulations.
I trust the pizza is free of improper toppings.
It’s my favourite, Waitrose goats cheese and spinach. I am sure Carrie Antoinette wouldn’t approve, but **** her.
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Congratulations.
I trust the pizza is free of improper toppings.
It’s my favourite, Waitrose goats cheese and spinach. I am sure Carrie Antoinette wouldn’t approve, but **** her.
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I must confess when I travelled a lot from London to Penzance, I treated myself to first class - it's a 5 hour plus journey so you might as well be comfortable was one part of dining.
I also used to enjoy the dining car (pre GWR) and the second sitting after Exeter - always more civilised then the panic to get people fed before the city. Second sitting would amble through Cornwall with a final coffee at Truro.
We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT
Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally
Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly
That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week
Interesting to see what some folk regard as "banter".
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Congratulations.
I trust the pizza is free of improper toppings.
It’s my favourite, Waitrose goats cheese and spinach. I am sure Carrie Antoinette wouldn’t approve, but **** her.
I'm not THAT desperate!
...which begs the question: how desperate are you?
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Congratulations Ian, good to see a number of us are now or have been in the PB town councillor club
Perhaps PBers actually elected to councils, or anything else, could comprise a PB Privy Council?
With a brief but formal meeting in the jacks (coed) at the next great PB get-together!
Ah, but only District/Borough/Unitaries and Counties count as ‘principal’ councils, so I think the pb Privy Council will comprise solely of Nick Palmer and my own illustrious self. I can happily live with that but as Counties are the Upper Tier, I bag myself as its Lord Serene and Most Exalted High President.
Congrats, John, from a fellow (sort of) Irishman!
Keep forgetting just how class conscious you English really are!
But my first name is Michael so I’m out and proud as Mick O’Reilly (albeit with a plummy BBC-endorsed accent).
Ok. That’s the Scottish election over, and time to admit most of my predictions were wrong. Record low turnover. Spectacularly wrong Labour more seats than Conservatives. Wrong. Alba to win seats. Wrong. SNP not to get an overall majority. Only just right. Hides head in shame.
Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.
I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.
Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.
You really are a tool aren't you.
Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?
The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.
The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.
Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.
1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order 2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down 3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament
Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.
As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.
But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.
To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.
Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.
I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.
Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.
Almost none at Westminster. MInority at Holyrood.
To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.
Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.
What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?
Except that it's England/Westminster which is on top, and has the brute political power, and can fuck little Scotland whenever it likes. So your analogy is not really very accurate, is it?
You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again
It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved
There's poor taste posts... and then there's shite like this.
Trivialising gender-based violence is never a good look.
I was just following the example of my hero Sean Connery, a great admirer and widely-welcomed supporter of the SNP
"The former James Bond star, Sean Connery, returned to his homeland yesterday for the election and said he would come back to live in an independent Scotland. Connery (70), who lives in Spain and the Bahamas, is the most celebrated supporter of the Scottish National Party"
"Sean Connery often said it was okay to hit a woman. The obits barely mentioned it"
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
Ok. That’s the Scottish election over, and time to admit most of my predictions were wrong. Record low turnover. Spectacularly wrong Labour more seats than Conservatives. Wrong. Alba to win seats. Wrong. SNP not to get an overall majority. Only just right. Hides head in shame.
Nobody predicted the Stockholm syndrome effect of Covid.
We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT
Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally
Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly
That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
Perhaps just the tip of the iceberg on her behaviour. For such a quick sacking there has to be more than this.
In London Bailey has outperformed most of the polling by some distance on First preferences.
Now remind me - didn't the Conservative High Command withdraw his funding? If so, it demonstrates they usually spend it in ways to piss off the voters....
First class tickets to avoid murderers who frequent second class? What an excuse.
Pretty sure all the murderers on the Orient Express were travelling First Class.
IF she REALLY wants to travel by rail in safety, should emulate Boxcar Willie.
Just remembered that in Richard Crossman's Diaries, he refers more than once to his embarrassment having a whole rail compartment by himself as a government minister (required by whomever to protect govt papers he was carrying).
Said he'd get dirty looks from fellow commuters. And that whenever he spotted Neil Marten MP (a Tory) on the same train (Crossman lived in Banbury, Marten's constituency) he'd invite him in, in part so he (RC, not NM) didn't look like a space-hogger!
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
If they dont think it is appropriate for someone that senior to travel 1st class, surely an obvious policy would be to abolish it. Is it just for the Queen?
Have we got, as a country, basically to a stage where we keep all the major parties happy by just letting them have one territory close to in perpetuity pretty much regardless of what they actually do?
The SNP, there you go, have Scotland. Labour? Wales. Conservatives? Have England, and by extension the UK. Lib Dems. Um...have Shetland and Orkney.
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
Greater Manchester is also Rochdale and Oldham and Leigh and Wigan though. It's not just Manchester.
On topic, Burnham is doing well because Manchester is a thriving, metropolitan, University city. Going woke has helped Labour there.
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
That's really inaccurate: Labour is not being pummeled in the north west outside Manchester. It's a mixed picture, but Labour had good results in several towns including Wigan, Preston, Bury and Trafford. Yes, Manchester is the stronghold, but Labour is holding up much better in the North West than in the North East.
First class protects you from psychopathic killers?
Better than that, plebs and oiks, which is why I travel first class.
I usually justify the quieter carriage and a guaranteed table for working
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
I support Angela Rayner here
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT
Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally
Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly
That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week
What time did you decide to hit the sauce in the end?
Labour to lose one London Assembly seat, BBC forecasts
The BBC's polling expert Prof Sir John Curtice projects that Labour will remain the largest party on the London Assembly, with 11 seats - down by one from the result five years ago.
The remaining parties are expected to get:
Conservatives - 9 Greens - 3 Lib Dems - 2 It would mean all three of these parties increase their seats by one from the previous election, because UKIP has not defended its two seats.
"London Labour support has edged down a bit," says Prof Curtice.
Not looking like a good result for us LibDems in Scotland - kept our constituency seats but going to struggle on the list. We do get a change around thanks to the SNP winning more constituency seats and votes cast than ever before, so list seats allocated will be different. Had hoped to pick seats up off the Tories, but the big winners on the list seats will be pro-indy Greens.
I agree, not looking good. I seem to have been continuously depressed for 11 years from the Orange/Yellow viewpoint.
Annoyingly the Tory list vote looks likely to have held up despite going backwards in constituencies. So the Greens will pick seats up in regions like mine in the NE, but from us not the Tories.
Odd that people are still trying to argue that a leap into the 70s of independence MSPs and a record haul in constituency seats and votes for the SNP after 3 terms in government is somehow a defeat for them and for independence. I'm a federalist (so neither a unionist nor a secessionist) but you can't deny how the votes have stacked up both to give nippy a 4th term and to give a thumping majority for a new referendum.
52% of Scots have voted against indyref2 and for Unionist parties, only 48% for, even before the 2016 EU referendum the Tories and UKIP won 50% of the vote in 2015
Got it. A record 72 seats (forecasted) for independence is people voting against independence.
You really are a tool aren't you.
Yeah, I find the mental gymnastics demonstrated to try and deny the moral case for a new referendum baffling. My conclusion from these results and other polling is that Sturgeon would be terrified to have her bluff called. And even if I’m wrong and the referendum was lost, why do other Englishmen want Scotland kept in the Union against the will of her people?
The proper safety valve on referendums is that if they lost the second, the SNP really couldn’t push for a third for many, many years without electoral consequences.
The way forward is simple. The Scottish government will publish a bill for an independence referendum. It will pass thanks to the record majority for independence in Holyrood.
Westminster then has 4 weeks to make a choice.
1 Strike down the bill by a Section 35 order 2 Refer the bill to the Supreme Court with a Section 33 order expecting them to strike it down 3 Do nothing and let it become an act of the Scottish parliament
Whether they use S33 or S35, if Westminster overrules the Scottish Parliament who are acting on the express elected mandate from the Scottish people, then Yes will see a big spike in support that will never go away.
As other posters have said, I expect that a referendum held in the next few years would be a win for No. If Westminster overrules the electorate then independence is guaranteed.
But there's no need to campaign in it, or to change anything in light of the result. It should be made clear that constitutional change would only result from an officially sanctioned referendum - if the SNP want a massive democratic exercise (others would call it a vanity referendum), that's fine, but the UK Government should express no more than a casual interest.
To seek to overrule and stop it even happening would, as you suggest, be provocative, and counter-productive, and actually give the proposed poll more legitimacy than it deserves.
Any idea what is the timing for such a bill in Nicola's head? This year, next, 2023? I think she may try to slow it down a lot.
I wonder if there is a Westminster argument for competing mandates. If Scotland has already had a referendum and the main UK parties are pro union is it possible to argue that they too have a mandate, at least to wait a number of years before a second one.
Parliamentary seats is the issue for the Unionists.
Almost none at Westminster. MInority at Holyrood.
To argue for ang other criterion subverts the entire working of Westminster as a representative democracy, as per Bagehot et aliis.
Tories who have lost 48 consecutive elections in Scotland since 1959 dictating what Scotland can and can’t do.
What was that thing about Macron and small dick energy?
Except that it's England/Westminster which is on top, and has the brute political power, and can fuck little Scotland whenever it likes. So your analogy is not really very accurate, is it?
You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again
It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved
There's poor taste posts... and then there's shite like this.
Trivialising gender-based violence is never a good look.
I was just following the example of my hero Sean Connery, a great admirer and widely-welcomed supporter of the SNP
"The former James Bond star, Sean Connery, returned to his homeland yesterday for the election and said he would come back to live in an independent Scotland. Connery (70), who lives in Spain and the Bahamas, is the most celebrated supporter of the Scottish National Party"
"Sean Connery often said it was okay to hit a woman. The obits barely mentioned it"
We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT
Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally
Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly
That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week
What time did you decide to hit the sauce in the end?
I don't get the safety angle at all, surely you are safer where there are more people.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
If she was worried about Covid (no matter whether it is rational fear or not), then first class makes sense. She did mention both COVID and safety from attack as her reason.
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
If they dont think it is appropriate for someone that senior to travel 1st class, surely an obvious policy would be to abolish it. Is it just for the Queen?
Its how she tried to justify it that is the problem
Heard about Rayner’s sacking on the car radio driving back from my count. A shock decision; I will be very interested to read comment upthread about it whilst eating my pizza.
A tiny footnote to election night, but I am pleased to have been re-elected to the town council, fourth out of twelve. Particularly as I am a recent arrival to a town that heavily prizes people with deep local roots.
Many congratulations on your election to public office
All the best
Thank you most kindly. I first acquired my ‘councillor’ title aged 31, just ten days before my partner succumbed to cancer, and have managed to continue my service in local government for what will be, at the end of my new term, 31 years total (and counting, health and the electorate permitting).
Comments
McDonnell
Good evening, everyone.
@joncraig
: STARMERGEDDON
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qcjj7iOemw
Rayner says she did use them: for safety, travelling alone after Sarah Everard's murder
New level of toxicity
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shaken-keir-starmer-wields-knife-sacking-angela-rayner-as-labour-party-chairwoman-0zbls9dm0
You're like some quailing tiny housewife that sort of wants a divorce but also likes the house and the car, and when you get TOO lippy you get smacked upside the head by England, just back from the pub, so you shut up again
It is the sort of marriage of which Sean Connery might have approved
I see that you’re coping with Scotland drifting yet further away from project UK with your usual equanimity.
I was on 40 -44.99 thought 1.34 was a great price bit worried now
Every front page I've seen posted on here so far has been outstanding.
There is a saying "the more things change, the more they stay they same". The truth of course is the better way to ensure things stay the same is for them not to change at all.
The Scottish Parliament results are a victory for both Boris Johnson and Nicola Sturgeon precisely because nothing will change. She will demand a referendum she doesn't really want safe in the knowledge he will refuse it all day long.
She can then blame him and use that to bolster her own position. He can use his refusal to look like the champion of the Union and bolster his support. While the SNP and Conservative electorates continue to enjoy the spectacle, the Johnson/Sturgeon waltz will continue ad infinitum.
Mr Starmer may try to cut in but I suspect he will be given the brush off by Nicola - after all, she won't want the referendum he will offer unless she is absolutely certain she will win and at the moment (and I suspect for the foreseeable) that won't be the case.
Still waiting here for the last act of the London Mayoral drama to be played out. It does seem (and the East Ham Central by-election does support it) even London has not proven immune to Boris Johnson's advances or Keir Starmer's shortcomings (no sniggering in the cheap seats).
but that doesn't work when you have to be one for the people (and you can only claim second class if on Parliamentary business / expenses). Which is why the local MPs now fly down..
Except maybe People magazine!
"Boris Johnson - complete legend or what?"
Keep forgetting just how class conscious you English really are!
Trivialising gender-based violence is never a good look.
We need to treat them as William the Bastard treated the Welsh Marches and the North. Build a huge network of Motte and Bailey castles across Scotland, armed with flammenwerfers that play "Jerusalem" as they hose the populace with cheering napalm-fire. Wherever we find some form of primitive "hut" with hairy faced Scotsmen eating their alleged "dinner" of "neeps" from a pewter dish - flatten it, and put up 70 metre high statues of Boris Johnson in a kilt so every Scotsman has to look up and see THAT
Genetically modify the midge so it injects a face-paralysing venom that makes people talk gibberish and slur like tards - and do this because it will be fun to try and guess with Scotch people have been bitten by the midge, and which just look like this normally
Make the wearing of tartan a capital offence, except at funerals, thus encouraging funerals, and the early demise of the Caledonian Elderly
That's day ONE. Nationalism will be gone within the week
Even the SNP got 64!
It is true that Sturgeon wants to licence oil while the greens want it decommissioning and of course that is presently HMG responsibility
There us a long way to go on this, and of course in Holyrood Sturgeon will face a united opposition in the conservatives, labour and lib dems
Expect lots of shouting and accusations across the chamber to the dismay of most Scots, who want the attention on running the economy and not incessant constitutional arguments
Holyrood 2021 looks like it will be a very angry debating chamber from all sides, sadly
I also used to enjoy the dining car (pre GWR) and the second sitting after Exeter - always more civilised then the panic to get people fed before the city. Second sitting would amble through Cornwall with a final coffee at Truro.
But what is the issue with the deputy leader of the opposition using first class tickets? Why do we have two classes of tickets still if we think it is unreasonable someone that senior uses first class.
Like much of modern life, it doesn't make much sense!
In large towns and cities not very far away, largely without universities, with traditional values and without the success to herald, Labour are being pummelled.
I'd be very wary of ascribing any success to Burnham. Weathervanes are good at telling you where the wind is blowing right now, exactly where they are. Not leading. And definitely not setting the agenda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsabFEisZ2Y
Note Chuck's politico buddy.
When do we get on to second preferences ?
Record low turnover. Spectacularly wrong
Labour more seats than Conservatives. Wrong.
Alba to win seats. Wrong.
SNP not to get an overall majority. Only just right.
Hides head in shame.
"The former James Bond star, Sean Connery, returned to his homeland yesterday for the election and said he would come back to live in an independent Scotland. Connery (70), who lives in Spain and the Bahamas, is the most celebrated supporter of the Scottish National Party"
"Sean Connery often said it was okay to hit a woman. The obits barely mentioned it"
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/sean-connery-often-said-it-was-okay-to-hit-a-woman-the-obits-barely-mentioned-it-1.4401030
https://www.centralfifetimes.com/news/national-news/18837105.salmond-hails-connerys-unshakable-support-scottish-independence/
Whatever, it surely not a sack-able offence.
If Labour only want to refund a 2nd class ticket from party funds, fine. But, as a reason to sack someone ... wtf
Just remembered that in Richard Crossman's Diaries, he refers more than once to his embarrassment having a whole rail compartment by himself as a government minister (required by whomever to protect govt papers he was carrying).
Said he'd get dirty looks from fellow commuters. And that whenever he spotted Neil Marten MP (a Tory) on the same train (Crossman lived in Banbury, Marten's constituency) he'd invite him in, in part so he (RC, not NM) didn't look like a space-hogger!
The SNP, there you go, have Scotland.
Labour? Wales.
Conservatives? Have England, and by extension the UK.
Lib Dems. Um...have Shetland and Orkney.
FFS she's the deputy leader of the Opposition. So she travels first class on a British train, for the very good reason that it is easier to work there?
On First Class you don't get endless free champagne and a selection of the finest charcuterie, this is not Emirates Airways from London to Sydney. You get a bigger seat, a quieter carriage and more space to work. And a free coffee. And that's it
The constant demand that our MPs must live the most humble lives possible is tedious and self defeating. We want smart, talented people to become MPs, which is often a thankless, unstable and boring job - so we need to give them a damn good salary and the means to do the job well. And for God's sake don't quibble about train classes
Labour to lose one London Assembly seat, BBC forecasts
The BBC's polling expert Prof Sir John Curtice projects that Labour will remain the largest party on the London Assembly, with 11 seats - down by one from the result five years ago.
The remaining parties are expected to get:
Conservatives - 9
Greens - 3
Lib Dems - 2
It would mean all three of these parties increase their seats by one from the previous election, because UKIP has not defended its two seats.
"London Labour support has edged down a bit," says Prof Curtice.