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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,660

    I'm not convinced. Sunderland Central is a university seat after all and is being gentrified, albeit slowly (believe it or not). It also contains the more middle class metropolitan liberal elite parts of Sunderland.

    Plus Sunderland/Tyne and Wear generally hasn't exactly been given a ton of Tory red meat to chew on like Teesside.

    The council elections on Thursday should be informative.
    Gentrified??? Metropolitan liberal elite???

    You'll have to let me know where to find the artisan bakers and organic cyclist cafes in Sunderland city centre...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,078
    Final YouGov/Times Scottish Parliament voting intention (2-4 May)

    CONSTITUENCY
    SNP 52% (+3 from 16-20 April)
    Con 20% (-1)
    Lab 19% (-2)
    LD 6% (nc)
    Green 2% (+1)

    REGIONAL LIST
    SNP 38% (-1)
    Con 22% (nc)
    Lab 16% (-1)
    Green 13% (+3)
    LD 5% (nc)
    Alba 3% (+1)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/04/scottish-voting-intention-snp-52-con-20-lab-19-2-4?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=final_call_Scotland_VI_May_2021 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1389615995074011139/photo/1
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,276
    edited May 2021
    Care home update re: my poor mum.

    Here we go again. Government announces great news that prisoners (sorry, residents) can be allowed outside the home without having to quarantine on return to the home.

    Firstly, that implies that residents have up to now been able to leave the home albeit with quarantine on return. This is not true. (Plus, as an aside, residents are basically in quarantine in a care home anyway aren't they?)

    Secondly, the wonderful new guidance is now out in writing and it states that only the two current nominated visitors are to be allowed to take the resident away for a trip out thus meaning that for many families, such as ours, who have nominated two infirm and elderly family members as nominated visitors (as the younger relatives (like me) are best suited to see relative outdoors) are in effect excluded because the nominated visitors we chose are too frail to push my mum in her wheelchair. So no trips out for mum then.

    I've asked the care home to switch one of the nominated visitors to me instead and they have refused because "the government says this is not allowed".

    Words fail me.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,815
    Selebian said:

    Well, we've had this debate before, but the groups that contributed provided different modelled sceanrios based on different assumptions of vaccine efficacy in protection and protection against onwards transmission. You seem to only focus on the most pessimistic; the modelled scenarios included things that were far, far away from 'doom'.

    Now, you'll say the pessimistic assumptions were too pessimistic (I agree) and that even the most optimistic were too pessimistic (I agree again) but the models will have been put togther with the well established facts available at the time. Still too pessimistic, quite possibly, but anything beyond that is too specultive and potentially irrepsonsible - "based on flimsy evidence, we confidently say there's no chance of further problems", that is misleading the politicians making the decisions.

    I was involved in a report for the NHS last year looking at a (non-infectious) condition and predicting future numbers for service planning. There seem to be some changes in incidence, but the big driver of changes in prevalence (which has increased over 50% in a decade) is increased survival times. We modelled a range of scenarios based on different impacts from new treatments extending survival further. But we also modelled a scenario in which there is no increase in incidence or survival, but changes only based on population growth and changing demographics. That showed a 10% predicted increase in the next ten years. Now, that final prediction of 10% is complete nonsense. The assumptions are demonstably false. But the commissioners found it useful as it was the one thing we could say with certainty: in ten years time you'll need, at an absolute and unrealistic minimum, a 10% increase in care capacity. The money will be allocated now, training given and the service built up. Further increases will depend on future developments in treatment and survival. But that 10% estimate, complete nonsense as it is, is useful. Without it, we'd have a range of possibilities with great uncertainties (impacts of treatments not yet even conceived) and not be able to give a hard limit on numbers at either end.

    The SAGE models do the same. The worst cases are nonsense - we can say that now and could pretty much say that when they were published. But it told the policy makers and civil servants useful things. Absolute worst is similar to January. The NHS coped in January in the middle of winter. So that nonsense forecase said we would cope in any third wave. We didn't need to build Nightingale hospitals or panic buy ventilators. Importantly, we could unlock as planned and not crash the NHS, if the politicians were able to take a (very) low risk of a wave rivalling January. The roadmap did not change, so I guess we can conclude that they could (and I'm pretty sure the scientists will ithave made it clear to them what the more likely scenarios were).
    I don't agree that the unrealistically pessimistic (frankly knowingly incorrect) models provided any service. It just handed the government, civil servants and public health types exactly what they needed to justify their ridiculously slow unlockdown plan and to prepare the ground for continuing measures after June 21st. These models went well beyond "reasonable" worst case scenario planning. They assumed significantly worse vaccine efficacy than we had already observed, even against variants and an effective freeze in the number of people who would have partial of full immunity. These are simply incorrect data inputs intended to get a specifically desired outcome. They did it on purpose and now they need to be forced to retract their paper.

    From a professional standards point of view if I'd released a model where I'd knowingly input incorrect data points and then consequently been proven wrong then I'd have to make a shit ton of apologies to VP level management for being such a massive fuckwit in the first place.

    That's where you and I disagree, you want no accountability for these scientists who knowingly produce garbage data to fit some political agenda. I think we should have some. If that means fewer scientists producing politically driven garbage models then all the better.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,660
    Stocky said:

    Yes but on the other hand many will have died of Covid outside of 28 days which will not be in figures. I've kind of accepted that one balances the other.

    Only 4 today - on a murder Tuesday. (Unless bank holiday moves that back to Wednesday?)
    Yes, Wednesday is the new Tuesday. For this week, anyway.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Beating Viagra? Now that IS impressive!
    Viagra wasn’t that huge a drug, although it went up like a rocket so hard to touch
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021

    Oh no - not a PCC election here on PB. How do I spoil my ballot?
    Does anyone still think pcc elections are a good idea?

    Cameron’s idea was to slash the police budget, then blame the pcc’s for the inevitable consequences. Now Boris is fixing the problem Dave created, they’re surplus to requirements.

    Unnecessary and expensive elections for a role that shouldn’t be partisan, IMO.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,775
    edited May 2021

    The contempt is nowhere near as high as it needs to be. The swamp needs to be drained, but it seems highly unlikely .
    An odd way to talk about large numbers of perfectly unexceptional citizens of this country. I'll do you a favour and assume lurid banter.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,276

    Yes, Wednesday is the new Tuesday. For this week, anyway.
    17 last Tuesday so if single figures tomorrow then result.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,163
    edited May 2021

    Gentrified??? Metropolitan liberal elite???

    You'll have to let me know where to find the artisan bakers and organic cyclist cafes in Sunderland city centre...
    "Metropolitan liberal elite" is relative, of course. ;)

    There is of course not many artisan bakers or organic cyclist cafes in Newcastle City Centre either.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,621
    Stocky said:

    Yes but on the other hand many will have died of Covid outside of 28 days which will not be in figures. I've kind of accepted that one balances the other.

    Only 4 today - on a murder Tuesday. (Unless bank holiday moves that back to Wednesday?)
    I'd be wary of weekend/BH reporting on this occasion. And awaits the media misunderstanding tomorrow...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,660

    I think the bantz of being the only Tory in NW3 would be too strong to resist so you'll get a few thousand votes on that basis alone.
    A few years back the Tory candidate in Trimdon ward got zero votes. These days they probably weigh the Tory vote.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,104
    Scott_xP said:

    Final YouGov/Times Scottish Parliament voting intention (2-4 May)

    CONSTITUENCY
    SNP 52% (+3 from 16-20 April)
    Con 20% (-1)
    Lab 19% (-2)
    LD 6% (nc)
    Green 2% (+1)

    REGIONAL LIST
    SNP 38% (-1)
    Con 22% (nc)
    Lab 16% (-1)
    Green 13% (+3)
    LD 5% (nc)
    Alba 3% (+1)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/04/scottish-voting-intention-snp-52-con-20-lab-19-2-4?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=final_call_Scotland_VI_May_2021 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1389615995074011139/photo/1

    That’s the highest constituency vote I’ve seen for some time..
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,163
    Scott_xP said:

    Final YouGov/Times Scottish Parliament voting intention (2-4 May)

    CONSTITUENCY
    SNP 52% (+3 from 16-20 April)
    Con 20% (-1)
    Lab 19% (-2)
    LD 6% (nc)
    Green 2% (+1)

    REGIONAL LIST
    SNP 38% (-1)
    Con 22% (nc)
    Lab 16% (-1)
    Green 13% (+3)
    LD 5% (nc)
    Alba 3% (+1)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/05/04/scottish-voting-intention-snp-52-con-20-lab-19-2-4?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=final_call_Scotland_VI_May_2021 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1389615995074011139/photo/1

    So that's 54% for Indy in the Constituency vote and 54% for Indy in the List vote.

    Any idea what that equates to in terms of seats?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,533
    Stocky said:

    Care home update re: my poor mum.

    Here we go again. Government announces great news that prisoners (sorry, residents) can be allowed outside the home without having to quarantine on return to the home.

    Firstly, that implies that residents have up to now been able to leave the home albeit with quarantine on return. This is not true. (Plus, as an aside, residents are basically in quarantine in a care home anyway aren't they?)

    Secondly, the wonderful new guidance is now out in writing and it states that only the two current nominated visitors are to be allowed to take the resident away for a trip out thus meaning that for many families, such as ours, who have nominated two infirm and elderly family members as nominated visitors (as the younger relatives (like me) are best suited to see relative outdoors) are in effect excluded because the nominated visitors we chose are too frail to push my mum in her wheelchair. So no trips out for mum then.

    I've asked the care home to switch one of the nominated visitors to me instead and they have refused because "the government says this is not allowed".

    Words fail me.

    Care home news has been a persistent area of poor communication and decisions generally, it seems.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,163
    PS countdown until @HYUFD does "the post".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,635
    Savanta ComRes.

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 40% (-2)
    LAB 36% (+1)
    LDM: 8% (=)
    GRN: 4% (+1)
    SNP: 4% (-1)

    Via
    @SavantaComRes
    , 30 Apr - 2 May.
    Changes w/ 23-25 Apr.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,533

    "Metropolitan liberal elite" is relative, of course. ;)
    It's a state of mind, not geography.

    Same with being a man of the people (gender and/or actualy connection with 'the people' not required)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,621
    kle4 said:

    Care home news has been a persistent area of poor communication and decisions generally, it seems.
    I also think that those that run the care homes are shit scared of being blamed/sued when a patient dies, and someone wants to make an issue. Far easier to just lock them up as tight as possible and be intransigent than take the risk.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    "Metropolitan liberal elite" is relative, of course. ;)

    There is of course not many artisan bakers or organic cyclist cafes in Newcastle City Centre either.
    Vegan strip clubs?

    If vegans REALLY want the world to get with the program, they should consider this option?

    Damn sight more appealing than your average vegan cafe!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,635
    kle4 said:

    It's a state of mind, not geography.

    Same with being a man of the people (gender and/or actualy connection with 'the people' not required)
    Some of us are metropolitan liberal elite and a man of the people.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,246
    edited May 2021
    Stocky said:

    Care home update re: my poor mum.

    Here we go again. Government announces great news that prisoners (sorry, residents) can be allowed outside the home without having to quarantine on return to the home.

    Firstly, that implies that residents have up to now been able to leave the home albeit with quarantine on return. This is not true. (Plus, as an aside, residents are basically in quarantine in a care home anyway aren't they?)

    Secondly, the wonderful new guidance is now out in writing and it states that only the two current nominated visitors are to be allowed to take the resident away for a trip out thus meaning that for many families, such as ours, who have nominated two infirm and elderly family members as nominated visitors (as the younger relatives (like me) are best suited to see relative outdoors) are in effect excluded because the nominated visitors we chose are too frail to push my mum in her wheelchair. So no trips out for mum then.

    I've asked the care home to switch one of the nominated visitors to me instead and they have refused because "the government says this is not allowed".

    Words fail me.

    Its allowed according to this:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visiting-care-homes-during-coronavirus/update-on-policies-for-visiting-arrangements-in-care-homes

    "It is important that the named visitors remain the same people as far as possible. This is important in reducing the risk of transmission, by limiting the number of different people coming into the care home from the community. However, we recognise that there will be situations in which a named visitor cannot continue to visit (for example because of illness). We advise care homes and families to take a pragmatic approach, with the aim of minimising change wherever possible."
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Charles said:

    Viagra wasn’t that huge a drug, although it went up like a rocket so hard to touch
    Is THAT the kind of thing, that got you personally interested in the pharmaceuticals industry?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Vegan strip clubs?

    If vegans REALLY want the world to get with the program, they should consider this option?

    Damn sight more appealing than your average vegan cafe!
    I think you just want to go to a den of debauchery, the vegan part of your proposal is simply a figleaf.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,712
    edited May 2021

    I also think that those that run the care homes are shit scared of being blamed/sued when a patient dies, and someone wants to make an issue. Far easier to just lock them up as tight as possible and be intransigent than take the risk.
    I would go one stage further than that - they don't want covid in their homes as it takes time to find replacement residents.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,533

    Some of us are metropolitan liberal elite and a man of the people.
    No doubt. Who?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,379
    Alex Salmond is at the centre of a row about transgender rights over a remark he is reported to have made to the respected broadcaster Jim Spence.

    Writing in his latest column for The Courier, Mr Spence claimed the former first minister complained to him the SNP had been “captured by around a hundred loony tune transgender warriors”.


    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2191135/exclusive-alex-salmond-embroiled-in-transgender-remark-row/?utm_source=twitter
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,163
    kle4 said:

    No doubt. Who?
    Objectively, Boris Johnson
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,772
    edited May 2021
    Savanta ComRes showing much lower swing over the last (approx) week than others:

    Savanta ComRes - lead down from 7 to 4
    Opinium - lead down from 11 to 5
    Redfield - lead down from 10 to 2
    Survation - lead down from 6 to 1
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,652

    Caveat - "Republican voters" are WAY more than "registered Republicans" for several reasons, for example states such as my own beloved WA that do NOT have party registration.

    The Republican voters Contrarian is referring to, are folks who voted for Republican President & nominee Trumpsky. Of which 70% equates to approx. one in three voters.
    Truly, but it's only one in five who "strongly agree" that the election was stolen.
    https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-04/topline_write_up_reuters_ipsos_trump_coattails_poll_-_april_02_2021.pdf
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    A few years back the Tory candidate in Trimdon ward got zero votes. These days they probably weigh the Tory vote.
    I remember that. The candidate only got on the ballot, because a local Labour bloke took pity on the kid the Tories sent there to gather sigs for the petition, and helped him find enough to qualify (including his own) with proviso that none of the signers were gonna vote for the Great Blue Hope.

    That year, anyway.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Deaths are now only a whisker over 10/day on average. Yet I wouldn't expect the government to accelerate the timetable – they seem wedded to 17 May.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited May 2021

    So that's 54% for Indy in the Constituency vote and 54% for Indy in the List vote.

    Any idea what that equates to in terms of seats?
    Fine margins in the exact tally, but one swingometer gives it as:

    SNP - 68 (seats)
    Tory - 26
    Lab - 17
    Green - 13
    LD - 5

    SNP majority of 6, Indy majority of 32 (i.e. 81 seats for the SNP + Greens).

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/swingometer/scottish-parliament?election=2016s&cSNP=52&cLAB=19&cCON=20&cLD=6&rSNP=38&rCON=22&rLAB=16&rGRN=13&rLD=5&rUKIP=1&rAFU=1&rALBA=3&rRefUK=1#Scotland
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,621
    eek said:

    I would go one stage further than that - they don't want covid in their homes as it takes time to find replacement residents.
    Crikey - even I'm not that cynical...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    eek said:

    I don't see much reason for the May 17th changes to be brought forward but there is little reason to not bring the June changes forward.
    Ironically the weather is pronged for a warm up on... 17 May. Would be darkly funny to see the pubs open their doors only to see multiple requests from punters to sit outside.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,635
    kle4 said:

    No doubt. Who?
    Me.

    Well I was recently upgraded to upper class by some friends (they were doing a quiz and it asked them how many upper class people they knew, for this you didn't need a title for to be upper class.)
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    I have lived in Pennywell, was like a series of scenes off Shameless.
    I think most of it's gone now. I think Gallowgate may be wrong - the university influence is not as strong - there are a kot of thrifty homeowners there these days. As he says the locals might give a clue but wallpaper gate has come at the wrong time.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Oh no - not a PCC election here on PB. How do I spoil my ballot?
    ... by voting Labour?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,276

    Its allowed according to this:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visiting-care-homes-during-coronavirus/update-on-policies-for-visiting-arrangements-in-care-homes

    "It is important that the named visitors remain the same people as far as possible. This is important in reducing the risk of transmission, by limiting the number of different people coming into the care home from the community. However, we recognise that there will be situations in which a named visitor cannot continue to visit (for example because of illness). We advise care homes and families to take a pragmatic approach, with the aim of minimising change wherever possible."
    Yes, I quoted that very passage to the care home manager this afternoon and got nowhere. Because both of the named visitors are not ill they cannot be replaced, she said.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Gentrified??? Metropolitan liberal elite???

    You'll have to let me know where to find the artisan bakers and organic cyclist cafes in Sunderland city centre...
    My thoughts exactly.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Leon said:

    Got a lot of respect for Neil Ferguson. His ‘500,000 deaths’ quote - which received much derision on here - turned out to be bang on: as a reasonable worst case scenario for UK Covid with no mitigation

    He then got death threats for a year. Now he’s willing to dial down the doom

    The Boffin' Boffin? – is this the very same Professor Ferguson who filled the airwaves preaching to his subjects only to then sneak out to get his end away with a blonde lady?
  • CursingStoneCursingStone Posts: 421
    felix said:

    I think most of it's gone now. I think Gallowgate may be wrong - the university influence is not as strong - there are a kot of thrifty homeowners there these days. As he says the locals might give a clue but wallpaper gate has come at the wrong time.
    There was no metro, just a notorious 'psychopath' as the cyclepath was known as, rape and robbery was not uncommon.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Alex Salmond is at the centre of a row about transgender rights over a remark he is reported to have made to the respected broadcaster Jim Spence.

    Writing in his latest column for The Courier, Mr Spence claimed the former first minister complained to him the SNP had been “captured by around a hundred loony tune transgender warriors”.


    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2191135/exclusive-alex-salmond-embroiled-in-transgender-remark-row/?utm_source=twitter

    So even he is not all bad......
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,702

    Oh no - not a PCC election here on PB. How do I spoil my ballot?
    If we took the pro rata turnout for those elections then it would only be @Leon's fingernail voting.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    edited May 2021

    Yes, Wednesday is the new Tuesday. For this week, anyway.
    Agreed. We can't use today as a rule of thumb as we would a normal Tuesday. That said, 4 is a low number even accounting for bank holiday effect. Let's see what the rest of the week brings.
  • CursingStoneCursingStone Posts: 421
    ping said:

    Does anyone still think pcc elections are a good idea?

    Cameron’s idea was to slash the police budget, then blame the pcc’s for the inevitable consequences. Now Boris is fixing the problem Dave created, they’re surplus to requirements.

    Unnecessary and expensive elections for a role that shouldn’t be partisan, IMO.
    Our PCC claims that their role and office cost are less than the old police authority.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,163
    felix said:

    I think most of it's gone now. I think Gallowgate may be wrong - the university influence is not as strong - there are a kot of thrifty homeowners there these days. As he says the locals might give a clue but wallpaper gate has come at the wrong time.
    The University's influence is no where near as strong as in cities with multiple universities, but it is still a factor. Look at Teesside. Middlesborough stands alone as the last Labour holdout. One possible factor is the university.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,163

    Our PCC claims that their role and office cost are less than the old police authority.
    "Contract out the cleaning staff, job done. To the pub?"
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,246
    Stocky said:

    Yes, I quoted that very passage to the care home manager this afternoon and got nowhere. Because both of the named visitors are not ill they cannot be replaced, she said.
    That really is wilful incompetence. If there is any escalation procedure beyond the manager someone will hopefully see sense.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Me.

    Well I was recently upgraded to upper class by some friends (they were doing a quiz and it asked them how many upper class people they knew, for this you didn't need a title for to be upper class.)
    Regrettably, standards continuing to slide to hell in a heck of a hurry . . .

    What would Queen Mary say? Or Benny Hill?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited May 2021

    The University's influence is no where near as strong as in cities with multiple universities, but it is still a factor. Look at Teesside. Middlesborough stands alone as the last Labour holdout. One possible factor is the university.
    This is true - Brighton and Bristol also have two, and are notably tolerant and open-minded places.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    This is true - Brighton and Bristol also have two, and are notably tolerant and open-minded places.
    ...the latter are particularly tolerant of their local Police force....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    The Boffin' Boffin? – is this the very same Professor Ferguson who filled the airwaves preaching to his subjects only to then sneak out to get his end away with a blonde lady?
    The British Jimmy Swaggart? Is he also a very talented pianist (gospel & honky-tonk)?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited May 2021
    felix said:

    ...the latter are particularly tolerant of their local Police force....
    ..the new Bill being a slightly different and national issue, ofcourse..
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,276
    edited May 2021

    That really is wilful incompetence. If there is any escalation procedure beyond the manager someone will hopefully see sense.
    I've asked that she reconsiders and get back to me in a few days. Beyond this I cannot see what else I can do. Basically the care homes (and thousands of others across the country no doubt) are charging £1000 + + per week to keep old folk hostage. They burble on about their business indemnity assurance. The quality of life of the resident is not paramount it seems.

    The problem, to be fair, is that the government makes out that it is doing this that and the other to improve things but this is disingenuous - they have kicked the issue to the individual care homes, who are left interpreting guidelines as they see fit. And they have the power to do this with no-one to appeal to. They take the most cautious interpretation of the government guidelines that it is possible to take - every time.

    I wrote a letter to Helen Whateley months ago about the way care home residents are being treated and didn't even get the courtesy of a reply.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,264
    If that Scottish poll is right it's a landslide for nationalist parties and we're getting a second IndyRef. The only question is how and when.

    God save us.
  • CursingStoneCursingStone Posts: 421
    edited May 2021
    felix said:

    ...the latter are particularly tolerant of their local Police force....
    And people who have the temerity to need an emergency ambulance while they are wanting to save the world. Those people stamping on a statue that was pulled down showed the kind of beast these people will unleash if they ever get the upper hand. They'll be little tolerance for those that wont fall in line.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938

    If that Scottish poll is right it's a landslide for nationalist parties and we're getting a second IndyRef. The only question is how and when.

    God save us.

    I'd hate to see Scotland go.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Quincel said:

    I think you just want to go to a den of debauchery, the vegan part of your proposal is simply a figleaf.
    Are figleafs vegan? I'm guessing they are!

    There's an actual vegan strip club in Portland, Oregon (unless Trumpsky' agents provocateurs trashed it) though have never been able to figure out, are the customers vegan, or the strippers, or both?

    Sounds like a job for the PB dynamic duo of Leon & TSE.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,264
    FPT - from reading @TheJezziah many posts I can only conclude he gets paid every time he uses "racist" or "racism".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,635

    If that Scottish poll is right it's a landslide for nationalist parties and we're getting a second IndyRef. The only question is how and when.

    God save us.

    I'm looking forward to it.

    Staunch Unionist Boris Johnson will save the Union, he'll be front and centre of indyref2.

    Professionally speaking being in charge of the firm's Scottish Independence planning is a headache I could do without.

    Although it will make me feel less guilty about being on PB during work hours.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,104

    If that Scottish poll is right it's a landslide for nationalist parties and we're getting a second IndyRef. The only question is how and when.

    God save us.

    They have to win the thing first..
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,789
    Entirely off thread, has anyone been following the Dalian Atkinson trial? I had no idea he'd been killed. All sounds a trifle, er, odd.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938

    They have to win the thing first..
    As long as BJ is there, what worries me is that it shouldn't be too difficult.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,011

    I'd hate to see Scotland go.
    Make them see the reality of not being subsidised by the rest of the UK FIRST
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,635
    Cookie said:

    Entirely off thread, has anyone been following the Dalian Atkinson trial? I had no idea he'd been killed. All sounds a trifle, er, odd.

    Yes and odd isn't the adjective I would use.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,104

    As long as BJ is there, what worries me is that it shouldn't be too difficult.
    Part of me agrees. But the underlying supplementary polling recently has given me some reason to think it would be a no vote.

    There was a fascinating focus group today for the times, with people giving SNP their vote because they “liked Sturgeon”, but recoiled in horror at the thought that it may bring about another referendum

    (Which also begs the question - what on earth have they missed for the last 14 years)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,133
    Star Sports has uploaded a new The Polling Station video.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmQ9108NZT4

    Starts by discussing Hartlepool. Not watched the rest yet. Half an hour long.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Yes and odd isn't the adjective I would use.
    What is your take on it @TSE?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,635
    MrEd said:

    What is your take on it @TSE?
    That the accused police officers were trained by Derek Chauvin.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,018

    Part of me agrees. But the underlying supplementary polling recently has given me some reason to think it would be a no vote.

    There was a fascinating focus group today for the times, with people giving SNP their vote because they “liked Sturgeon”, but recoiled in horror at the thought that it may bring about another referendum

    (Which also begs the question - what on earth have they missed for the last 14 years)
    This from Sky today explains that that a quick indyref2 is not so popular

    http://news.sky.com/story/elections-2021-scottish-voters-less-enthusiastic-about-independence-referendum-in-next-5-years-sky-news-poll-12296485
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    That the accused police officers were trained by Derek Chauvin.
    Ok. I saw the BBC report on it. Didn't look good to put it mildly.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,635
    Private polling klaxon.

    Labour set for huge election defeat in Hartlepool, internal polling suggests

    Exclusive: Party’s own figures show only 40% of previous supporters pledge to back its candidate this time

    Fewer than half of recent Labour voters in Hartlepool say they will back the party in Thursday’s crucial byelection, according to internal data based on the canvassing of more than 10,000 people, leading activists to fear an historic Conservative victory.

    Labour insiders said that polling from its ground campaign in the town showed that only about 40% of the party’s previous supporters had pledged to vote for its candidate, Paul Williams.

    Such an outcome would deal a significant blow to Keir Starmer’s leadership and a decisive Conservative win in a north-east England seat that has elected a Labour MP at every parliamentary election since 1964.

    Labour sources said they were in “huge trouble” in Hartlepool and also in danger of losing control of Sunderland and Durham councils for the first time in half a century. Voters across England, Scotland and Wales will go to the polls on what has been dubbed “Super Thursday”, in the biggest set of local elections since 1973.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/04/internal-polling-suggests-labour-heading-for-defeat-in-hartlepool-byelection?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,789

    Make them see the reality of not being subsidised by the rest of the UK FIRST
    There was an article in the Speccy about this - a poll was done on the extent to which Scots agree with various statement. Long and short of it, Scots don't believe they are being subsidised by the rest of us.

    I have a vague nostalgia for the Britain of my youth, when you could comfortably think of the Highlands of Scotland as just the top end of your country, rather than an entirely foreign country ruled by a hostile power who would be rather happy to see the border closed, who are trying to rewrite history with England as the villains and who give every impression of being keen to ally with anyone as long as it would be against the English. Is Scotland as a whole still welcoming to English people, I wonder? Oh well. Those days are gone, and I don't think they can be brought back.

    It's going to be a bloody nuisance redesigning the flag though.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,104

    This from Sky today explains that that a quick indyref2 is not so popular

    http://news.sky.com/story/elections-2021-scottish-voters-less-enthusiastic-about-independence-referendum-in-next-5-years-sky-news-poll-12296485
    Longer term looks closer (5 years or so..)

    I think Sturgeon will be under pressure to go for 2022, whilst the economy recovers. There’s too large a part of her party that wants the Indy vote regardless of context..
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,104

    Private polling klaxon.

    Labour set for huge election defeat in Hartlepool, internal polling suggests

    Exclusive: Party’s own figures show only 40% of previous supporters pledge to back its candidate this time

    Fewer than half of recent Labour voters in Hartlepool say they will back the party in Thursday’s crucial byelection, according to internal data based on the canvassing of more than 10,000 people, leading activists to fear an historic Conservative victory.

    Labour insiders said that polling from its ground campaign in the town showed that only about 40% of the party’s previous supporters had pledged to vote for its candidate, Paul Williams.

    Such an outcome would deal a significant blow to Keir Starmer’s leadership and a decisive Conservative win in a north-east England seat that has elected a Labour MP at every parliamentary election since 1964.

    Labour sources said they were in “huge trouble” in Hartlepool and also in danger of losing control of Sunderland and Durham councils for the first time in half a century. Voters across England, Scotland and Wales will go to the polls on what has been dubbed “Super Thursday”, in the biggest set of local elections since 1973.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/04/internal-polling-suggests-labour-heading-for-defeat-in-hartlepool-byelection?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I can’t reconcile this with the recent national polling (unless they are piling the votes up elsewhere)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,628

    Private polling klaxon.

    Labour set for huge election defeat in Hartlepool, internal polling suggests

    Exclusive: Party’s own figures show only 40% of previous supporters pledge to back its candidate this time

    Fewer than half of recent Labour voters in Hartlepool say they will back the party in Thursday’s crucial byelection, according to internal data based on the canvassing of more than 10,000 people, leading activists to fear an historic Conservative victory.

    Labour insiders said that polling from its ground campaign in the town showed that only about 40% of the party’s previous supporters had pledged to vote for its candidate, Paul Williams.

    Such an outcome would deal a significant blow to Keir Starmer’s leadership and a decisive Conservative win in a north-east England seat that has elected a Labour MP at every parliamentary election since 1964.

    Labour sources said they were in “huge trouble” in Hartlepool and also in danger of losing control of Sunderland and Durham councils for the first time in half a century. Voters across England, Scotland and Wales will go to the polls on what has been dubbed “Super Thursday”, in the biggest set of local elections since 1973.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/04/internal-polling-suggests-labour-heading-for-defeat-in-hartlepool-byelection?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Naught but Tory FAKE NEWS!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,727

    Private polling klaxon.

    Labour set for huge election defeat in Hartlepool, internal polling suggests

    Exclusive: Party’s own figures show only 40% of previous supporters pledge to back its candidate this time

    Fewer than half of recent Labour voters in Hartlepool say they will back the party in Thursday’s crucial byelection, according to internal data based on the canvassing of more than 10,000 people, leading activists to fear an historic Conservative victory.

    Labour insiders said that polling from its ground campaign in the town showed that only about 40% of the party’s previous supporters had pledged to vote for its candidate, Paul Williams.

    Such an outcome would deal a significant blow to Keir Starmer’s leadership and a decisive Conservative win in a north-east England seat that has elected a Labour MP at every parliamentary election since 1964.

    Labour sources said they were in “huge trouble” in Hartlepool and also in danger of losing control of Sunderland and Durham councils for the first time in half a century. Voters across England, Scotland and Wales will go to the polls on what has been dubbed “Super Thursday”, in the biggest set of local elections since 1973.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/04/internal-polling-suggests-labour-heading-for-defeat-in-hartlepool-byelection?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    The nightmare is coming true for Labour, as warned by the Guardian, et al. The SNP are already the Scottish party, the Tories are becoming the party of England
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,076
    DavidL said:

    I had thought that Sarwar just might deliver second place behind the SNP. That is not what the polling is showing now though.
    If he cannot beat Ross he is rubbish.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited May 2021

    I can’t reconcile this with the recent national polling (unless they are piling the votes up elsewhere)
    IIRC there has been speculation they are piling up votes in Southern and coastal seats, some formerly quite strongly Tory.

    This is interesting, because parts of the Tories old "Blue Wall" may also be teetering and looking weaker, at the same time as Labour has its troubles.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Cookie said:

    There was an article in the Speccy about this - a poll was done on the extent to which Scots agree with various statement. Long and short of it, Scots don't believe they are being subsidised by the rest of us.

    I have a vague nostalgia for the Britain of my youth, when you could comfortably think of the Highlands of Scotland as just the top end of your country, rather than an entirely foreign country ruled by a hostile power who would be rather happy to see the border closed, who are trying to rewrite history with England as the villains and who give every impression of being keen to ally with anyone as long as it would be against the English. Is Scotland as a whole still welcoming to English people, I wonder? Oh well. Those days are gone, and I don't think they can be brought back.

    It's going to be a bloody nuisance redesigning the flag though.
    What Scotch poll are we talking about? Most recent I can find doesn't look that good for indy

    https://news.sky.com/story/elections-2021-scottish-voters-less-enthusiastic-about-independence-referendum-in-next-5-years-sky-news-poll-12296485
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,628

    Two flags plus a portrait of The Leader*? Dura Ace will spontaneously combust....

    *Maybe he has a portrait of Petain on the flip side?
    No, that's @TheScreamingEagles :lol:
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,467

    Private polling klaxon.

    Labour set for huge election defeat in Hartlepool, internal polling suggests

    Exclusive: Party’s own figures show only 40% of previous supporters pledge to back its candidate this time

    Fewer than half of recent Labour voters in Hartlepool say they will back the party in Thursday’s crucial byelection, according to internal data based on the canvassing of more than 10,000 people, leading activists to fear an historic Conservative victory.

    Labour insiders said that polling from its ground campaign in the town showed that only about 40% of the party’s previous supporters had pledged to vote for its candidate, Paul Williams.

    Such an outcome would deal a significant blow to Keir Starmer’s leadership and a decisive Conservative win in a north-east England seat that has elected a Labour MP at every parliamentary election since 1964.

    Labour sources said they were in “huge trouble” in Hartlepool and also in danger of losing control of Sunderland and Durham councils for the first time in half a century. Voters across England, Scotland and Wales will go to the polls on what has been dubbed “Super Thursday”, in the biggest set of local elections since 1973.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/04/internal-polling-suggests-labour-heading-for-defeat-in-hartlepool-byelection?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Anything approaching the polling should be the end of Starmer. You really can't lose your safest seats to an 'unpopular' and 'sleazy' government in such a substantial manner. There's probably only a handful of Labour MPs that could feel remotely 'safe' if the polling is borne out.

    (I don't really think it'll be quite so bad for Labour, and I think Starmer will somehow battle on.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,018

    Longer term looks closer (5 years or so..)

    I think Sturgeon will be under pressure to go for 2022, whilst the economy recovers. There’s too large a part of her party that wants the Indy vote regardless of context..
    She is a 'canny' politician and with this poll at 50/50 and yesterday's with no leading 53/47 I expect her to use covid recovery as a reason to delay, hoping the figures move towards independence which they are not at present

    Furthermore, there are lots of hurdles for her to go through and not just Boris, but Westminster itself

    And I have to say I do believe covid and Brexit has made it very winnable for the union whenever it happens, if it does
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,533
    Cookie said:

    There was an article in the Speccy about this - a poll was done on the extent to which Scots agree with various statement. Long and short of it, Scots don't believe they are being subsidised by the rest of us.

    I have a vague nostalgia for the Britain of my youth, when you could comfortably think of the Highlands of Scotland as just the top end of your country, rather than an entirely foreign country ruled by a hostile power who would be rather happy to see the border closed, who are trying to rewrite history with England as the villains and who give every impression of being keen to ally with anyone as long as it would be against the English. Is Scotland as a whole still welcoming to English people, I wonder? Oh well. Those days are gone, and I don't think they can be brought back.

    It's going to be a bloody nuisance redesigning the flag though.
    Flag will be kept. Blue to represent the sea
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    So much for the immense betting implications then.

    With respect I did not make any claims about the veracity of the document, merely that the apparent discrepancy is being used by figures on the right to keep the 'stolen' election narrative going.

    I know you and almost everybody on here would not like to face up to the fact that more than 70% of republican voters still don't think Biden got enough legit votes to win. But its true, they don't. And stuff like this is used to keep that notion going.

    Stuff like people not understanding the figure is an estimate?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,727
    kle4 said:

    Flag will be kept. Blue to represent the sea
    Yes. Keep. Best flag in the world. Brilliant branding
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,933
    Omnium said:

    Anything approaching the polling should be the end of Starmer. You really can't lose your safest seats to an 'unpopular' and 'sleazy' government in such a substantial manner. There's probably only a handful of Labour MPs that could feel remotely 'safe' if the polling is borne out.

    (I don't really think it'll be quite so bad for Labour, and I think Starmer will somehow battle on.)
    It's a while since any NE seat was amongst Labour's safest.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,978
    Cookie said:

    There was an article in the Speccy about this - a poll was done on the extent to which Scots agree with various statement. Long and short of it, Scots don't believe they are being subsidised by the rest of us.

    I have a vague nostalgia for the Britain of my youth, when you could comfortably think of the Highlands of Scotland as just the top end of your country, rather than an entirely foreign country ruled by a hostile power who would be rather happy to see the border closed, who are trying to rewrite history with England as the villains and who give every impression of being keen to ally with anyone as long as it would be against the English. Is Scotland as a whole still welcoming to English people, I wonder? Oh well. Those days are gone, and I don't think they can be brought back.

    It's going to be a bloody nuisance redesigning the flag though.
    I was in Scotland a couple of years ago and found it remarkably welcoming - even in little out-of-the-way pubs where you'd ordinarily expect to be silently glowered at by the locals as you shuffle to the bar.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,018
    IshmaelZ said:

    What Scotch poll are we talking about? Most recent I can find doesn't look that good for indy

    https://news.sky.com/story/elections-2021-scottish-voters-less-enthusiastic-about-independence-referendum-in-next-5-years-sky-news-poll-12296485
    Today's Sky poll as quoted was by Opinium
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,095
    Leon said:

    Got a lot of respect for Neil Ferguson. His ‘500,000 deaths’ quote - which received much derision on here - turned out to be bang on: as a reasonable worst case scenario for UK Covid with no mitigation

    He then got death threats for a year. Now he’s willing to dial down the doom

    For sure. We should save our derision for the moron who went touting around a prediction of two million dead Brits.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,104

    She is a 'canny' politician and with this poll at 50/50 and yesterday's with no leading 53/47 I expect her to use covid recovery as a reason to delay, hoping the figures move towards independence which they are not at present

    Furthermore, there are lots of hurdles for her to go through and not just Boris, but Westminster itself

    And I have to say I do believe covid and Brexit has made it very winnable for the union whenever it happens, if it does
    Yes - I think so. We’re in a holding pattern for the foreseeable.

    I also thought it was interesting - in the context of Scottish identify rising - is that English identity is on the rise (particularly in Hartlepool). Tony Blair is convinced devolution prevented breakup earlier, but I think it’s eroded a UK sense of identity and turbo charged others..

    It may be Leon is right and that the tories are remoulding themselves into the party of England (which tbh is what I think Brexiters wanted all along)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,076
    Stocky said:

    Yes, I quoted that very passage to the care home manager this afternoon and got nowhere. Because both of the named visitors are not ill they cannot be replaced, she said.
    Just tell them one of them is no longer able to travel , feel it is far too much for them and stressing them out and making them ill. Get GP to write a letter. Bloody jobsworths.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,727

    She is a 'canny' politician and with this poll at 50/50 and yesterday's with no leading 53/47 I expect her to use covid recovery as a reason to delay, hoping the figures move towards independence which they are not at present

    Furthermore, there are lots of hurdles for her to go through and not just Boris, but Westminster itself

    And I have to say I do believe covid and Brexit has made it very winnable for the union whenever it happens, if it does
    Boris will say No, but in the end there will be Sindyref2, as there was a 2nd Quebec vote. Latter half of this decade, nearer 2030, methinks (respecting the ‘generation’ argument but acknowledging Scottish democracy)

    In the meantime Unionists need to get some proper arguments above and beyond Fear, and Boris needs to Establish a Constitutional Convention so Scots - and Brits - know who is voting for exactly what, why, and when
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,095

    If that Scottish poll is right it's a landslide for nationalist parties and we're getting a second IndyRef. The only question is how and when.

    God save us.

    Step back, make a cup of tea, and consider whether your party’s actions have inexorably driven us towards this sorry state of affairs.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,304

    So that's 54% for Indy in the Constituency vote and 54% for Indy in the List vote.

    Any idea what that equates to in terms of seats?
    @BallotBoxScot
    Projecting YouGov 2 - 4 May into seats (changes vs 16 - 20 Apr / vs 2016):

    SNP ~ 70 (+2 / +7)
    Conservative ~ 25 (-2 / -6)
    Labour ~ 18 (-1 / -6)
    Green ~ 12 (+1 / +6)
    Lib Dem ~ 4 (nc / -1)

    Caveats: http://ballotbox.scot/projections
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Given the tiny number of deaths now it must be quite possible that some if not all of these so-called Coronavirus deaths are naturally occurring deaths of people who by pure coincidence tested positive within last 28 days?

    That wasn't true all pandemic, though its certainly been a factor which is why the real death toll is tens of thousands fewer than the 'official' one. But it must surely be a real factor now?

    From the 6th of July to the 18th of August Scotland had 1 death on the 28 day measure.

    So we are still a few weeks away from that level in the UK.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,467
    dixiedean said:

    It's a while since any NE seat was amongst Labour's safest.
    Sure, but in the 90s this seat was 60% Labour.

    Mandelson found himself a very safe seat.

    To lose this by (what appears to be) a significant margin when in opposition will be a howler.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,095

    Me.

    Well I was recently upgraded to upper class by some friends (they were doing a quiz and it asked them how many upper class people they knew, for this you didn't need a title for to be upper class.)
    The test is whether you’d see a home of John Lewis decor and furnishings as a nightmare?
This discussion has been closed.