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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    ...The estimates presented in this table package may differ from those based on administrative data or exit polls due to factors such as survey nonresponse, vote misreporting and methodological issues related to question wording and survey administration....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Explain the logic of Labour losing in the groups most opposed to racism (young and minorities)

    If the centrists and right wing fairly tale about Corbyn being racist and Starmer being anti racist were true the opposite would happen.

    Starmer seems most popular (comparatively to Corbyn) among groups most in favour of racism (older white people) the same groups were Corbyn is least popular.

    I know this might be hard to hear but is it possible it is you that is wrong rather than the children Mr Skinner?

    The better starting point is not to be racist because its wrong. Too many of your fellow Corbynite activists - and Corbyn himself - cannot pass this test due to being usually passive but sometimes active anti-semites.

    Once you've got this "believing in something cos its right" thing down, the next barrier is not ramming your standards down other people's throats. You may be right and the other person wrong, but sneering / shouting won't change their view in your direction. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Finally, don't be a screaming hypocrite. Diane Abbott was on the receiving end of some horrendous racist abuse. She was also on the end of a lot of abuse because she is a shit politician that was willfully miscategorised as racist. At the same time Luciana Berger was also on the end of some horrendous racist abuse - with much of it coming from Labour members who then insisted it wasn't racist.
    Diane Abbott is an interesting one to compare with Israel.

    If you're attacking Abbott/Israel alone then that seems to be racism.

    If you're attacking Abbott along with Rebecca Wrong Daily, Laura Pillock, the Jezziah and the rest of them - then that's not racist.
    Wrong-Daily is white. Pillock is white. Berger is BAME. Abbott is BAME. My point was that in large parts of Labour there is a hierarchy of racism where as Baddiel puts it so neatly: Jews Don't Count.

    The party promoted Anas Sarwar as the first BAME leader of a political party. Scottish Labour isn't a political party, but Sarwar isn't even the first BAME Labour leader - Ed Milliband doesn't count apparently.
    Because to recognise millibrand as bame they wouldn't be able to claim that even for him as Disraeli would be the first Bame leader of a political party and incidentally prime minister
    Exactly. I stopped with Ed M and didn't mention Howard or the others because they weren't Labour.

    This is the Labour Party. Who claims to be anti-racist. And who still has a massive bind spot when it comes to anti-semitism.
    I would say "still" is unfair, given that the start of the problem can be dated precisely to September 2015.

    Anyway, using hatred of Starmer by Corbynista fanboys as a crude proxy for whether he's addressing the issue, ten minutes of scanning this forum today has made me quite optimistic.
    Weird given people kept going back before that time (whether they were looking for left wing or centrist anti semitism)

    I guess all the anti semitism people used as a weapon against Corbyn (or centrists) that appeared before that date was part of Corbyn's evil racist plan were he went back in time and planted racist comments that seem as if they existed before Corbyn won the leadership but clever older white men with large bank accounts saw through this...

    Young people and minorities haven't got this kind of magic perception which is why they can't see that Corbyn is secretly a time travelling racist.
    Please don't tar young people with your brush, most are sane and a great number of them also saw through corbyn and didnt vote for him 71% in fact
    Without young people Corbyn was buried, the old voted against him the young voted for him.

    Vast numbers of people as always didn't vote but there is a reason Labour did better among the young.

    Corbyn is the first political leader the younger generation has had.
    First?

    What about Ed Miliband? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair?

    Every "younger generation" has always had a leader or leaders politically. The only way to define Corbyn as the first is simply by wiping out any that come before him, in which case Starmer or A N Other could be a first next time.
    I've never understood why I'm supposed to think someone is greater because they had more of the young vote, as though its morally worth more.

    I criticise the grey vote bribes we get and the age polarisation of recent times is a worry, but we overdo the 'please think of the children(and young people)' stuff - same reason people love youthful campaigners.
    I'll never understand people criticising something without reading it, what is the point?

    I was on about younger people being less racist and them being the ones who voted for Corbyn (in relatively greater numbers)

    Was it really too difficult for you to go back and read the context in which is was used?

    Or are my posts just useful staging posts for you to have a self righteous whine without actually reading them?

    In future please read the context in which I am saying something or don't talk about my posts. Nothing worse than someone being self righteous when they don't even know what they are talking about.
    You need to calm the f*ck down, take your own advice and read what I wrote.

    Your post and the one which followed it led me to reflect on a tangential point of my own. It was not a criticism of you or your post and did not say as much.

    Why should not one person's thoughts serve as staging for another, separate point by another? I welcomed the discussion and it led me to think about something related but different.

    So f*ck you. Amazing how you just personified the very point you wanted to criticise about self righteousness.

    Not everything is about you. Nor do you own a discussion or a reply to a post which was not even yours. Just because it was in a thread with yours didn't make it a criticism of you.

    So vain.
    Oh, and TheJezziah, that's a criticism of you btw. Since you just invented one in your imagination to whinge about clearly you need help to identify an actual criticism of you.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    Maffew said:

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Will this do?

    Even the Modeller of Doom admits this is nearly over.


    Dan Bloom
    @danbloom1
    NEW: Prof Neil Ferguson says we now "don’t see any prospect of the NHS being overwhelmed, with the one caveat around variants", in a third wave this summer/autumn

    I thought Neil Ferguson had avoided the doom porn and for most of this year was saying once vaccination is complete we're pretty much done in the UK and would just have to live with flu-level outbreaks.
    I'd assumed Ferguson was implicated by involvement (presumably?) in the Imperial model included in the SAGE forecasts. Wasn't the doomiest of doomy models, but well, those SAGE and ex-SAGE types are all in the conspiracy, aren't they? :innocent:
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,947
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    I don't think the Tories have a single voter left around my way. So that's part of it. Hopefully just a small part, though, since such a swap would be electorally inefficient for Labour.
    Thought you lived near Leon, Sean T and Lady G?
    That's at least 3...
    Ethnically- and gender-diverse too. Proof that the Tories don't only appeal to white males.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Explain the logic of Labour losing in the groups most opposed to racism (young and minorities)

    If the centrists and right wing fairly tale about Corbyn being racist and Starmer being anti racist were true the opposite would happen.

    Starmer seems most popular (comparatively to Corbyn) among groups most in favour of racism (older white people) the same groups were Corbyn is least popular.

    I know this might be hard to hear but is it possible it is you that is wrong rather than the children Mr Skinner?

    The better starting point is not to be racist because its wrong. Too many of your fellow Corbynite activists - and Corbyn himself - cannot pass this test due to being usually passive but sometimes active anti-semites.

    Once you've got this "believing in something cos its right" thing down, the next barrier is not ramming your standards down other people's throats. You may be right and the other person wrong, but sneering / shouting won't change their view in your direction. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Finally, don't be a screaming hypocrite. Diane Abbott was on the receiving end of some horrendous racist abuse. She was also on the end of a lot of abuse because she is a shit politician that was willfully miscategorised as racist. At the same time Luciana Berger was also on the end of some horrendous racist abuse - with much of it coming from Labour members who then insisted it wasn't racist.
    Diane Abbott is an interesting one to compare with Israel.

    If you're attacking Abbott/Israel alone then that seems to be racism.

    If you're attacking Abbott along with Rebecca Wrong Daily, Laura Pillock, the Jezziah and the rest of them - then that's not racist.
    Wrong-Daily is white. Pillock is white. Berger is BAME. Abbott is BAME. My point was that in large parts of Labour there is a hierarchy of racism where as Baddiel puts it so neatly: Jews Don't Count.

    The party promoted Anas Sarwar as the first BAME leader of a political party. Scottish Labour isn't a political party, but Sarwar isn't even the first BAME Labour leader - Ed Milliband doesn't count apparently.
    Because to recognise millibrand as bame they wouldn't be able to claim that even for him as Disraeli would be the first Bame leader of a political party and incidentally prime minister
    Exactly. I stopped with Ed M and didn't mention Howard or the others because they weren't Labour.

    This is the Labour Party. Who claims to be anti-racist. And who still has a massive bind spot when it comes to anti-semitism.
    I would say "still" is unfair, given that the start of the problem can be dated precisely to September 2015.

    Anyway, using hatred of Starmer by Corbynista fanboys as a crude proxy for whether he's addressing the issue, ten minutes of scanning this forum today has made me quite optimistic.
    Weird given people kept going back before that time (whether they were looking for left wing or centrist anti semitism)

    I guess all the anti semitism people used as a weapon against Corbyn (or centrists) that appeared before that date was part of Corbyn's evil racist plan were he went back in time and planted racist comments that seem as if they existed before Corbyn won the leadership but clever older white men with large bank accounts saw through this...

    Young people and minorities haven't got this kind of magic perception which is why they can't see that Corbyn is secretly a time travelling racist.
    Please don't tar young people with your brush, most are sane and a great number of them also saw through corbyn and didnt vote for him 71% in fact
    Without young people Corbyn was buried, the old voted against him the young voted for him.

    Vast numbers of people as always didn't vote but there is a reason Labour did better among the young.

    Corbyn is the first political leader the younger generation has had.
    First?

    What about Ed Miliband? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair?

    Every "younger generation" has always had a leader or leaders politically. The only way to define Corbyn as the first is simply by wiping out any that come before him, in which case Starmer or A N Other could be a first next time.
    I've never understood why I'm supposed to think someone is greater because they had more of the young vote, as though its morally worth more.

    I criticise the grey vote bribes we get and the age polarisation of recent times is a worry, but we overdo the 'please think of the children(and young people)' stuff - same reason people love youthful campaigners.
    I'll never understand people criticising something without reading it, what is the point?

    I was on about younger people being less racist and them being the ones who voted for Corbyn (in relatively greater numbers)

    Was it really too difficult for you to go back and read the context in which is was used?

    Or are my posts just useful staging posts for you to have a self righteous whine without actually reading them?

    In future please read the context in which I am saying something or don't talk about my posts. Nothing worse than someone being self righteous when they don't even know what they are talking about.
    You need to calm the f*ck down, take your own advice and read what I wrote.

    Your post and the one which followed it led me to reflect on a tangential point of my own. It was not a criticism of you or your post and did not say as much.

    Why should not one person's thoughts serve as staging for another, separate point by another? I welcomed the discussion and it led me to think about something related but different.

    So f*ck you. Amazing how you just personified the very point you wanted to criticise about self righteousness.

    Not everything is about you. Nor do you own a discussion or a reply to a post which was not even yours. Just because it was in a thread with yours didn't make it a criticism of you.

    So vain.
    Oh, and TheJezziah, that's a criticism of you btw. Since you just invented one in your imagination to whinge about clearly you need help to identify an actual criticism of you.
    I would respectfully suggest you take some of your own advice and calm down. There's no need for this.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    dixiedean said:

    felix said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    Possibly places where they already weigh the labour vote like london
    And yet Khan is down.
    My money's on the Home Counties.
    I agree. Starmer’s picking up votes in blue-remainia, isn’t he?

    Labour could put in a surprisingly good performance in Chesham & Amersham.
    I actually doubt your last point and wrt the Home counties not sure they would win much in a GE here - potential to make the Tory vote even more efficient.
    Well indeed. Analogous to Tyne and Wear. Massive swings to the Tories all this century has left 12 out of 12 Labour seats much more efficiently won.
    I do think my home town seat of Sunderland central could go blue for the first time since 1963!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2021
    felix said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    Possibly places where they already weigh the labour vote like london
    And yet Khan is down.
    My money's on the Home Counties.
    I agree. Starmer’s picking up votes in blue-remainia, isn’t he?

    Labour could put in a surprisingly good performance in Chesham & Amersham.
    I actually doubt your last point and wrt the Home counties not sure they would win much in a GE here - potential to make the Tory vote even more efficient.
    Tory seats like Wycombe, Watford, Hastings and Rye, Milton Keynes (both), Reading West, Southampton Itchen, Worthing East and Shoreham and Crawley are all in the Home Counties and the top 100 Labour target seats.

    Though yes it is mainly the LDs who are the Tories opponents in the South East
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    There hasn't been a single poll of Greater Manchester I notice.
    Burnham has out performed the Labour Party there before.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    We have very clearly hit herd immunity already.

    Today's death figures are 4 as well. That's fewer than can die in a single car accident that wouldn't reach the news, it quite possibly also is entirely made up of people dying with Covid (or dying within 28 days of having had Covid) not dying from Covid.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Nigelb said:

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    ...The estimates presented in this table package may differ from those based on administrative data or exit polls due to factors such as survey nonresponse, vote misreporting and methodological issues related to question wording and survey administration....
    I never claimed it was accurate, merely that the apparent discrepancy is being used to fuel the (bogus) narrative of a 'stolen' election.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    AlistairM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Hospital admissions are a week behind and haven't been updated in a few days. No mention of this on the site. Wondering what is happening. Maybe the numbers are too good/bad?
    Hospital admissions have been a week behind/slow to update for some weeks or months now. No conspiracy there, I don't think!

    I also think Ferguson at least and perhaps others HAVE updated their model, using new assumptions (i.e. reflecting real-world vaccine efficacy). I was amongst those bemoaning that they hadn't, but I think they now have. So we now have to target our ire at those further up the chain not budging.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited May 2021
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Explain the logic of Labour losing in the groups most opposed to racism (young and minorities)

    If the centrists and right wing fairly tale about Corbyn being racist and Starmer being anti racist were true the opposite would happen.

    Starmer seems most popular (comparatively to Corbyn) among groups most in favour of racism (older white people) the same groups were Corbyn is least popular.

    I know this might be hard to hear but is it possible it is you that is wrong rather than the children Mr Skinner?

    The better starting point is not to be racist because its wrong. Too many of your fellow Corbynite activists - and Corbyn himself - cannot pass this test due to being usually passive but sometimes active anti-semites.

    Once you've got this "believing in something cos its right" thing down, the next barrier is not ramming your standards down other people's throats. You may be right and the other person wrong, but sneering / shouting won't change their view in your direction. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Finally, don't be a screaming hypocrite. Diane Abbott was on the receiving end of some horrendous racist abuse. She was also on the end of a lot of abuse because she is a shit politician that was willfully miscategorised as racist. At the same time Luciana Berger was also on the end of some horrendous racist abuse - with much of it coming from Labour members who then insisted it wasn't racist.
    Diane Abbott is an interesting one to compare with Israel.

    If you're attacking Abbott/Israel alone then that seems to be racism.

    If you're attacking Abbott along with Rebecca Wrong Daily, Laura Pillock, the Jezziah and the rest of them - then that's not racist.
    Wrong-Daily is white. Pillock is white. Berger is BAME. Abbott is BAME. My point was that in large parts of Labour there is a hierarchy of racism where as Baddiel puts it so neatly: Jews Don't Count.

    The party promoted Anas Sarwar as the first BAME leader of a political party. Scottish Labour isn't a political party, but Sarwar isn't even the first BAME Labour leader - Ed Milliband doesn't count apparently.
    Because to recognise millibrand as bame they wouldn't be able to claim that even for him as Disraeli would be the first Bame leader of a political party and incidentally prime minister
    Exactly. I stopped with Ed M and didn't mention Howard or the others because they weren't Labour.

    This is the Labour Party. Who claims to be anti-racist. And who still has a massive bind spot when it comes to anti-semitism.
    I would say "still" is unfair, given that the start of the problem can be dated precisely to September 2015.

    Anyway, using hatred of Starmer by Corbynista fanboys as a crude proxy for whether he's addressing the issue, ten minutes of scanning this forum today has made me quite optimistic.
    Weird given people kept going back before that time (whether they were looking for left wing or centrist anti semitism)

    I guess all the anti semitism people used as a weapon against Corbyn (or centrists) that appeared before that date was part of Corbyn's evil racist plan were he went back in time and planted racist comments that seem as if they existed before Corbyn won the leadership but clever older white men with large bank accounts saw through this...

    Young people and minorities haven't got this kind of magic perception which is why they can't see that Corbyn is secretly a time travelling racist.
    Please don't tar young people with your brush, most are sane and a great number of them also saw through corbyn and didnt vote for him 71% in fact
    Without young people Corbyn was buried, the old voted against him the young voted for him.

    Vast numbers of people as always didn't vote but there is a reason Labour did better among the young.

    Corbyn is the first political leader the younger generation has had.
    First?

    What about Ed Miliband? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair?

    Every "younger generation" has always had a leader or leaders politically. The only way to define Corbyn as the first is simply by wiping out any that come before him, in which case Starmer or A N Other could be a first next time.
    I've never understood why I'm supposed to think someone is greater because they had more of the young vote, as though its morally worth more.

    I criticise the grey vote bribes we get and the age polarisation of recent times is a worry, but we overdo the 'please think of the children(and young people)' stuff - same reason people love youthful campaigners.
    I'll never understand people criticising something without reading it, what is the point?

    I was on about younger people being less racist and them being the ones who voted for Corbyn (in relatively greater numbers)

    Was it really too difficult for you to go back and read the context in which is was used?

    Or are my posts just useful staging posts for you to have a self righteous whine without actually reading them?

    In future please read the context in which I am saying something or don't talk about my posts. Nothing worse than someone being self righteous when they don't even know what they are talking about.
    You need to calm the f*ck down, take your own advice and read what I wrote.

    Your post and the one which followed it led me to reflect on a tangential point of my own. It was not a criticism of you or your post and did not say as much.

    Why should not one person's thoughts serve as staging for another, separate point by another? I welcomed the discussion and it led me to think about something related but different.

    So f*ck you. Amazing how you just personified the very point you wanted to criticise about self righteousness.

    Not everything is about you. Nor do you own a discussion or a reply to a post which was not even yours. Just because it was in a thread with yours didn't make it a criticism of you.

    So vain.
    Oh, and TheJezziah, that's a criticism of you btw. Since you just invented one in your imagination to whinge about clearly you need help to identify an actual criticism of you.
    I would respectfully suggest you take some of your own advice and calm down. There's no need for this.
    Yes, I agree, but I would hope 2 posts and done on the subject would be acceptable as far as indulgences go. I shall not say another word on the matter, to the pleasure of all, but expressing displeasure across 2 posts is hardly excessive by PB standards I dare say. Im not a robot, everybody has an off moment.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    Thanks, your assertion last night was wrong then.

    The 154m Census number is based on those that definitively reported having voted, you forget the 36m that didn't respond.

    As the Census bureau notes.

    The estimates presented in this table package may differ from those based on administrative data or exit polls due to factors such as survey nonresponse, vote misreporting and methodological issues related to question wording and survey administration.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    dixiedean said:

    There hasn't been a single poll of Greater Manchester I notice.
    Burnham has out performed the Labour Party there before.

    Were any of the mayoral elections not forgone conclusions?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    Possibly places where they already weigh the labour vote like london
    And yet Khan is down.
    My money's on the Home Counties.
    I agree. Starmer’s picking up votes in blue-remainia, isn’t he?

    Labour could put in a surprisingly good performance in Chesham & Amersham.
    The LDs will mop up there.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    dixiedean said:

    There hasn't been a single poll of Greater Manchester I notice.

    Unaccountable lapse. The precise scale of victory has to be worth at least one poll.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    felix said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    Possibly places where they already weigh the labour vote like london
    And yet Khan is down.
    My money's on the Home Counties.
    I agree. Starmer’s picking up votes in blue-remainia, isn’t he?

    Labour could put in a surprisingly good performance in Chesham & Amersham.
    I actually doubt your last point and wrt the Home counties not sure they would win much in a GE here - potential to make the Tory vote even more efficient.
    Well indeed. Analogous to Tyne and Wear. Massive swings to the Tories all this century has left 12 out of 12 Labour seats much more efficiently won.
    I do think my home town seat of Sunderland central could go blue for the first time since 1963!
    Well yes. There is a tipping point, where votes become more and more efficiently distributed. And then suddenly they aren't at all.
    Labour 2005 to 2010 springs to mind.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    ...The estimates presented in this table package may differ from those based on administrative data or exit polls due to factors such as survey nonresponse, vote misreporting and methodological issues related to question wording and survey administration....
    I never claimed it was accurate, merely that the apparent discrepancy is being used to fuel the (bogus) narrative of a 'stolen' election.
    As are the public pronouncements of many leading Republican politicians, most of whom must be aware that they are peddling lies.
    Which is of rather more concern.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Cookie said:

    AlistairM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Hospital admissions are a week behind and haven't been updated in a few days. No mention of this on the site. Wondering what is happening. Maybe the numbers are too good/bad?
    Hospital admissions have been a week behind/slow to update for some weeks or months now. No conspiracy there, I don't think!

    I also think Ferguson at least and perhaps others HAVE updated their model, using new assumptions (i.e. reflecting real-world vaccine efficacy). I was amongst those bemoaning that they hadn't, but I think they now have. So we now have to target our ire at those further up the chain not budging.
    The hospital admissions data isn't generally updated on weekends and bank holidays...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    For what it's worth, Wikipedia says total votes cast in 2020 for US President = 158,383,403

    Which IF you assume 1% falloff (ballots cast with NOT vote for President) would bump up total turnout to about 160m.

    Compared with US census ESTIMATE of 155m (as Contrarian rightly says).

    Note that the Wiki number is based on actual votes cast as reported by election authorities, while the Census number is based on survey responses.

    Hence the gap is NOT ipso facto prima facie evidence of fraud.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    As a byelection Batley and Spen is far harder to call. The Brexit vote was minimal as it went to the Heavy Woollen District Independents party and there really isn't the "see what you missing out on" issue that Hartlepool had.

    However, were SKS to lose that byelection there would be problems as that really should be a Labour seat...
    It is a seat I kinda know well through friends.

    The big difference between Batley & Spen is that the Heavy Woollen Independents aren't analogous to the Brexit Party in Hartlepool.

    This lot think Farage is a woke liberal, and the BNP used to be quite active here as well.

    There's also a residual sympathy vote for Labour here as well, whether that lasts at the by election is another factor.
    At least one member of the far right certainly was depressingly active.
    Yup.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    dixiedean said:

    There hasn't been a single poll of Greater Manchester I notice.
    Burnham has out performed the Labour Party there before.

    KIng of the North! King of the North!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited May 2021
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    There hasn't been a single poll of Greater Manchester I notice.
    Burnham has out performed the Labour Party there before.

    Were any of the mayoral elections not forgone conclusions?
    Well Tees, West of England and West Midlands seemed up in the air on the basis of the results last time not needing much change to be competitive this time, but from the looks of it at least 2 of those are actually certs. Street and Houchen have been name dropped here, but West of England's chap not so much.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    Maffew said:

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Will this do?

    Even the Modeller of Doom admits this is nearly over.


    Dan Bloom
    @danbloom1
    NEW: Prof Neil Ferguson says we now "don’t see any prospect of the NHS being overwhelmed, with the one caveat around variants", in a third wave this summer/autumn

    I thought Neil Ferguson had avoided the doom porn and for most of this year was saying once vaccination is complete we're pretty much done in the UK and would just have to live with flu-level outbreaks.
    Got a lot of respect for Neil Ferguson. His ‘500,000 deaths’ quote - which received much derision on here - turned out to be bang on: as a reasonable worst case scenario for UK Covid with no mitigation

    He then got death threats for a year. Now he’s willing to dial down the doom

    Contrast with the flailing figure of Jonathan ‘masks are dangerous because my friend in China says so’ Van Tam
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    As a byelection Batley and Spen is far harder to call. The Brexit vote was minimal as it went to the Heavy Woollen District Independents party and there really isn't the "see what you missing out on" issue that Hartlepool had.

    However, were SKS to lose that byelection there would be problems as that really should be a Labour seat...
    It is a seat I kinda know well through friends.

    The big difference between Batley & Spen is that the Heavy Woollen Independents aren't analogous to the Brexit Party in Hartlepool.

    This lot think Farage is a woke liberal, and the BNP used to be quite active here as well.

    There's also a residual sympathy vote for Labour here as well, whether that lasts at the by election is another factor.
    At least one member of the far right certainly was depressingly active.
    Looked at these guys' Social profile back in March, looks like the group FB and Twitter had gone pretty quiet during COVID, and their councillor was ploughing a bit of a lone furrow in Dewsbury East (weaving a rough homemade rug?) doing traditional councillor things like staring at potholes (OK, perhaps he had been ploughing a furrow after all). Looks like this year's ward candidate now has the page for pictures of him standing on streets campaigning.

    An announced candidate for last year's elections in Dewsbury West was also flagged, but though she later turned up in the Yorkshire Post for a lot of community work during COVID, her Heavy Woollen affiliation was no longer mentioned there.

    I am left wondering whether they have been somewhat diminished as a local political force. Let's see on Thursday.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited May 2021

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    Thanks, your assertion last night was wrong then.

    The 154m Census number is based on those that definitively reported having voted, you forget the 36m that didn't respond.

    As the Census bureau notes.

    The estimates presented in this table package may differ from those based on administrative data or exit polls due to factors such as survey nonresponse, vote misreporting and methodological issues related to question wording and survey administration.
    So much for the immense betting implications then.

    With respect I did not make any claims about the veracity of the document, merely that the apparent discrepancy is being used by figures on the right to keep the 'stolen' election narrative going.

    I know you and almost everybody on here would not like to face up to the fact that more than 70% of republican voters still don't think Biden got enough legit votes to win. But its true, they don't. And stuff like this is used to keep that notion going.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "'Far more likely' coronavirus came from lab, ex-MI6 chief tells LBC

    Sir Richard Dearlove said aspects of the virus "point in the direction of it being somewhat tailored" though he warned this may never be proven.

    The former "C" of the Secret Intelligence Service – equivalent to "M" in James Bond – also told LBC's Tom Swarbrick that more information on the coronavirus' origin will soon come out."

    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/coronavirus-escaped-from-lab-mi6-chief/

    Talking absolute shite, IMO.
    (It's not impossible that the virus escaped from a lab, but the stuff about the spike being 'mucked about with' is just rubbish.)
    Of course it came from the lab.

    Was it mucked about with? My guess is no, but this New York article plausibly says Yes

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK cases by specimen date

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK case summary

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK Hospitals

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Off topic. My High School mates from Canada are now proudly showing off their vaccine photos and side effects.
    So they are 6 weeks behind us.
  • Labour needs to follow the Biden approach.

    Undo some of the 2019 losses that are now marginals and then pickup seats in the south. The analysis I posted this morning suggested they could pickup 26 on a good night.

    They need a swing of around 5% to get their 50th target seat, which would be progress going into 2029.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK deaths

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  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    For what it's worth, Wikipedia says total votes cast in 2020 for US President = 158,383,403

    Which IF you assume 1% falloff (ballots cast with NOT vote for President) would bump up total turnout to about 160m.

    Compared with US census ESTIMATE of 155m (as Contrarian rightly says).

    Note that the Wiki number is based on actual votes cast as reported by election authorities, while the Census number is based on survey responses.

    Hence the gap is NOT ipso facto prima facie evidence of fraud.
    With respect, I never claimed it was evidence of anything.

    My point was some are trying to weaponise it to keep a narrative going.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    UK R

    image
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    I don't think the Tories have a single voter left around my way. So that's part of it. Hopefully just a small part, though, since such a swap would be electorally inefficient for Labour.
    Thought you lived near Leon, Sean T and Lady G?
    That's at least 3. There may be many more...
    :smile: - Good point. But I tend to ignore "them" (for all sorts of reasons).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Totally agree, and I see Neil Ferguson now thinks the NHS won't be overwhelmed. TBH the way cases are down and vaccines are up, I don't really expect a third wave in any meaningful sense (hospital/death).
    While I am chaffing for the next restrictions to be lifted, and think they should have been already, its only another 13 days.
    I will be seriously pissed off if mask wearing stays after June though.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    My local gp is now inviting 35-40years olds in for the jab
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Age related data

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Explain the logic of Labour losing in the groups most opposed to racism (young and minorities)

    If the centrists and right wing fairly tale about Corbyn being racist and Starmer being anti racist were true the opposite would happen.

    Starmer seems most popular (comparatively to Corbyn) among groups most in favour of racism (older white people) the same groups were Corbyn is least popular.

    I know this might be hard to hear but is it possible it is you that is wrong rather than the children Mr Skinner?

    The better starting point is not to be racist because its wrong. Too many of your fellow Corbynite activists - and Corbyn himself - cannot pass this test due to being usually passive but sometimes active anti-semites.

    Once you've got this "believing in something cos its right" thing down, the next barrier is not ramming your standards down other people's throats. You may be right and the other person wrong, but sneering / shouting won't change their view in your direction. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Finally, don't be a screaming hypocrite. Diane Abbott was on the receiving end of some horrendous racist abuse. She was also on the end of a lot of abuse because she is a shit politician that was willfully miscategorised as racist. At the same time Luciana Berger was also on the end of some horrendous racist abuse - with much of it coming from Labour members who then insisted it wasn't racist.
    Diane Abbott is an interesting one to compare with Israel.

    If you're attacking Abbott/Israel alone then that seems to be racism.

    If you're attacking Abbott along with Rebecca Wrong Daily, Laura Pillock, the Jezziah and the rest of them - then that's not racist.
    Wrong-Daily is white. Pillock is white. Berger is BAME. Abbott is BAME. My point was that in large parts of Labour there is a hierarchy of racism where as Baddiel puts it so neatly: Jews Don't Count.

    The party promoted Anas Sarwar as the first BAME leader of a political party. Scottish Labour isn't a political party, but Sarwar isn't even the first BAME Labour leader - Ed Milliband doesn't count apparently.
    Because to recognise millibrand as bame they wouldn't be able to claim that even for him as Disraeli would be the first Bame leader of a political party and incidentally prime minister
    Exactly. I stopped with Ed M and didn't mention Howard or the others because they weren't Labour.

    This is the Labour Party. Who claims to be anti-racist. And who still has a massive bind spot when it comes to anti-semitism.
    I would say "still" is unfair, given that the start of the problem can be dated precisely to September 2015.

    Anyway, using hatred of Starmer by Corbynista fanboys as a crude proxy for whether he's addressing the issue, ten minutes of scanning this forum today has made me quite optimistic.
    Weird given people kept going back before that time (whether they were looking for left wing or centrist anti semitism)

    I guess all the anti semitism people used as a weapon against Corbyn (or centrists) that appeared before that date was part of Corbyn's evil racist plan were he went back in time and planted racist comments that seem as if they existed before Corbyn won the leadership but clever older white men with large bank accounts saw through this...

    Young people and minorities haven't got this kind of magic perception which is why they can't see that Corbyn is secretly a time travelling racist.
    Please don't tar young people with your brush, most are sane and a great number of them also saw through corbyn and didnt vote for him 71% in fact
    Without young people Corbyn was buried, the old voted against him the young voted for him.

    Vast numbers of people as always didn't vote but there is a reason Labour did better among the young.

    Corbyn is the first political leader the younger generation has had.
    First?

    What about Ed Miliband? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair?

    Every "younger generation" has always had a leader or leaders politically. The only way to define Corbyn as the first is simply by wiping out any that come before him, in which case Starmer or A N Other could be a first next time.
    I've never understood why I'm supposed to think someone is greater because they had more of the young vote, as though its morally worth more.

    I criticise the grey vote bribes we get and the age polarisation of recent times is a worry, but we overdo the 'please think of the children(and young people)' stuff - same reason people love youthful campaigners.
    I'll never understand people criticising something without reading it, what is the point?

    I was on about younger people being less racist and them being the ones who voted for Corbyn (in relatively greater numbers)

    Was it really too difficult for you to go back and read the context in which is was used?

    Or are my posts just useful staging posts for you to have a self righteous whine without actually reading them?

    In future please read the context in which I am saying something or don't talk about my posts. Nothing worse than someone being self righteous when they don't even know what they are talking about.
    You need to calm the f*ck down, take your own advice and read what I wrote.

    Your post and the one which followed it led me to reflect on a tangential point of my own. It was not a criticism of you or your post and did not say as much.

    Why should not one person's thoughts serve as staging for another, separate point by another? I welcomed the discussion and it led me to think about something related but different.

    So f*ck you. Amazing how you just personified the very point you wanted to criticise about self righteousness.

    Not everything is about you. Nor do you own a discussion or a reply to a post which was not even yours. Just because it was in a thread with yours didn't make it a criticism of you.

    So vain.
    Oh, and TheJezziah, that's a criticism of you btw. Since you just invented one in your imagination to whinge about clearly you need help to identify an actual criticism of you.
    I would respectfully suggest you take some of your own advice and calm down. There's no need for this.
    I didn't know there had been a vacancy for site policeman, David?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited May 2021
    Age related data scaled to 100K population per age group

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Vaccinations

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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Given the tiny number of deaths now it must be quite possible that some if not all of these so-called Coronavirus deaths are naturally occurring deaths of people who by pure coincidence tested positive within last 28 days?

    That wasn't true all pandemic, though its certainly been a factor which is why the real death toll is tens of thousands fewer than the 'official' one. But it must surely be a real factor now?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    Pro_Rata said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    As a byelection Batley and Spen is far harder to call. The Brexit vote was minimal as it went to the Heavy Woollen District Independents party and there really isn't the "see what you missing out on" issue that Hartlepool had.

    However, were SKS to lose that byelection there would be problems as that really should be a Labour seat...
    It is a seat I kinda know well through friends.

    The big difference between Batley & Spen is that the Heavy Woollen Independents aren't analogous to the Brexit Party in Hartlepool.

    This lot think Farage is a woke liberal, and the BNP used to be quite active here as well.

    There's also a residual sympathy vote for Labour here as well, whether that lasts at the by election is another factor.
    At least one member of the far right certainly was depressingly active.
    Looked at these guys' Social profile back in March, looks like the group FB and Twitter had gone pretty quiet during COVID, and their councillor was ploughing a bit of a lone furrow in Dewsbury East (weaving a rough homemade rug?) doing traditional councillor things like staring at potholes (OK, perhaps he had been ploughing a furrow after all). Looks like this year's ward candidate now has the page for pictures of him standing on streets campaigning.

    An announced candidate for last year's elections in Dewsbury West was also flagged, but though she later turned up in the Yorkshire Post for a lot of community work during COVID, her Heavy Woollen affiliation was no longer mentioned there.

    I am left wondering whether they have been somewhat diminished as a local political force. Let's see on Thursday.
    And the initial answer is - they are standing only in the ward they hold (one candidate for one seat), and the Dewsbury West lass is now standing purely as an Independent, not as a Heavy Woollen.

    Got to wonder if this is a grouping still capable of 15% in a by-election?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    UK cases by specimen date

    image

    Far k'nell. Turtles zeros all the way down.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    CFR

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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    If you’re an MP for La République en Marche, a flag in the background isn’t sufficient.

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited May 2021
    TOPPING said:

    UK cases by specimen date

    image

    Far k'nell. Turtles zeros all the way down.
    Similar to what we had last summer....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited May 2021
    RobD said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    I don't think the Tories have a single voter left around my way. So that's part of it. Hopefully just a small part, though, since such a swap would be electorally inefficient for Labour.
    Are there really seats where the Tory vote is zero? Even in seats like East Ham they manage ~15%.
    No, not yet. I think we can have a crack at it round here though. Can you imagine if we pulled it off at the next GE? Talk about your badge of honour! - and a great boost for house prices as people in more "diverse" areas hear about it and want a piece.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    Nigelb said:

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    ...The estimates presented in this table package may differ from those based on administrative data or exit polls due to factors such as survey nonresponse, vote misreporting and methodological issues related to question wording and survey administration....
    I never claimed it was accurate, merely that the apparent discrepancy is being used to fuel the (bogus) narrative of a 'stolen' election.
    Yes, but note that 99.46% of the argument behind the "Biden stole the election from Trump" argument is based on similar misunderstanding (too often willful) of the basic numbers.

    Unholy alliance of statistical ignorance and political ideology. Which is NOT confined to Trumpsky & minions. But they are leading poster children for this nexus at the moment.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Explain the logic of Labour losing in the groups most opposed to racism (young and minorities)

    If the centrists and right wing fairly tale about Corbyn being racist and Starmer being anti racist were true the opposite would happen.

    Starmer seems most popular (comparatively to Corbyn) among groups most in favour of racism (older white people) the same groups were Corbyn is least popular.

    I know this might be hard to hear but is it possible it is you that is wrong rather than the children Mr Skinner?

    The better starting point is not to be racist because its wrong. Too many of your fellow Corbynite activists - and Corbyn himself - cannot pass this test due to being usually passive but sometimes active anti-semites.

    Once you've got this "believing in something cos its right" thing down, the next barrier is not ramming your standards down other people's throats. You may be right and the other person wrong, but sneering / shouting won't change their view in your direction. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Finally, don't be a screaming hypocrite. Diane Abbott was on the receiving end of some horrendous racist abuse. She was also on the end of a lot of abuse because she is a shit politician that was willfully miscategorised as racist. At the same time Luciana Berger was also on the end of some horrendous racist abuse - with much of it coming from Labour members who then insisted it wasn't racist.
    Diane Abbott is an interesting one to compare with Israel.

    If you're attacking Abbott/Israel alone then that seems to be racism.

    If you're attacking Abbott along with Rebecca Wrong Daily, Laura Pillock, the Jezziah and the rest of them - then that's not racist.
    Wrong-Daily is white. Pillock is white. Berger is BAME. Abbott is BAME. My point was that in large parts of Labour there is a hierarchy of racism where as Baddiel puts it so neatly: Jews Don't Count.

    The party promoted Anas Sarwar as the first BAME leader of a political party. Scottish Labour isn't a political party, but Sarwar isn't even the first BAME Labour leader - Ed Milliband doesn't count apparently.
    Because to recognise millibrand as bame they wouldn't be able to claim that even for him as Disraeli would be the first Bame leader of a political party and incidentally prime minister
    Exactly. I stopped with Ed M and didn't mention Howard or the others because they weren't Labour.

    This is the Labour Party. Who claims to be anti-racist. And who still has a massive bind spot when it comes to anti-semitism.
    I would say "still" is unfair, given that the start of the problem can be dated precisely to September 2015.

    Anyway, using hatred of Starmer by Corbynista fanboys as a crude proxy for whether he's addressing the issue, ten minutes of scanning this forum today has made me quite optimistic.
    Weird given people kept going back before that time (whether they were looking for left wing or centrist anti semitism)

    I guess all the anti semitism people used as a weapon against Corbyn (or centrists) that appeared before that date was part of Corbyn's evil racist plan were he went back in time and planted racist comments that seem as if they existed before Corbyn won the leadership but clever older white men with large bank accounts saw through this...

    Young people and minorities haven't got this kind of magic perception which is why they can't see that Corbyn is secretly a time travelling racist.
    Please don't tar young people with your brush, most are sane and a great number of them also saw through corbyn and didnt vote for him 71% in fact
    Without young people Corbyn was buried, the old voted against him the young voted for him.

    Vast numbers of people as always didn't vote but there is a reason Labour did better among the young.

    Corbyn is the first political leader the younger generation has had.
    First?

    What about Ed Miliband? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair?

    Every "younger generation" has always had a leader or leaders politically. The only way to define Corbyn as the first is simply by wiping out any that come before him, in which case Starmer or A N Other could be a first next time.
    I've never understood why I'm supposed to think someone is greater because they had more of the young vote, as though its morally worth more.

    I criticise the grey vote bribes we get and the age polarisation of recent times is a worry, but we overdo the 'please think of the children(and young people)' stuff - same reason people love youthful campaigners.
    I'll never understand people criticising something without reading it, what is the point?

    I was on about younger people being less racist and them being the ones who voted for Corbyn (in relatively greater numbers)

    Was it really too difficult for you to go back and read the context in which is was used?

    Or are my posts just useful staging posts for you to have a self righteous whine without actually reading them?

    In future please read the context in which I am saying something or don't talk about my posts. Nothing worse than someone being self righteous when they don't even know what they are talking about.
    You need to calm the f*ck down, take your own advice and read what I wrote.

    Your post and the one which followed it led me to reflect on a tangential point of my own. It was not a criticism of you or your post and did not say as much.

    Why should not one person's thoughts serve as staging for another, separate point by another? I welcomed the discussion and it led me to think about something related but different.

    So f*ck you. Amazing how you just personified the very point you wanted to criticise about self righteousness.

    Not everything is about you. Nor do you own a discussion or a reply to a post which was not even yours. Just because it was in a thread with yours didn't make it a criticism of you.

    So vain.
    Oh, and TheJezziah, that's a criticism of you btw. Since you just invented one in your imagination to whinge about clearly you need help to identify an actual criticism of you.
    I would respectfully suggest you take some of your own advice and calm down. There's no need for this.
    I didn't know there had been a vacancy for site policeman, David?
    What made you think that it would be advertised @TOPPING ? Its disappointing when an interesting debate falls away into personal abuse. Anyway @kle4 , who is normally very civilised, took it in the right spirit.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Explain the logic of Labour losing in the groups most opposed to racism (young and minorities)

    If the centrists and right wing fairly tale about Corbyn being racist and Starmer being anti racist were true the opposite would happen.

    Starmer seems most popular (comparatively to Corbyn) among groups most in favour of racism (older white people) the same groups were Corbyn is least popular.

    I know this might be hard to hear but is it possible it is you that is wrong rather than the children Mr Skinner?

    The better starting point is not to be racist because its wrong. Too many of your fellow Corbynite activists - and Corbyn himself - cannot pass this test due to being usually passive but sometimes active anti-semites.

    Once you've got this "believing in something cos its right" thing down, the next barrier is not ramming your standards down other people's throats. You may be right and the other person wrong, but sneering / shouting won't change their view in your direction. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Finally, don't be a screaming hypocrite. Diane Abbott was on the receiving end of some horrendous racist abuse. She was also on the end of a lot of abuse because she is a shit politician that was willfully miscategorised as racist. At the same time Luciana Berger was also on the end of some horrendous racist abuse - with much of it coming from Labour members who then insisted it wasn't racist.
    Diane Abbott is an interesting one to compare with Israel.

    If you're attacking Abbott/Israel alone then that seems to be racism.

    If you're attacking Abbott along with Rebecca Wrong Daily, Laura Pillock, the Jezziah and the rest of them - then that's not racist.
    Wrong-Daily is white. Pillock is white. Berger is BAME. Abbott is BAME. My point was that in large parts of Labour there is a hierarchy of racism where as Baddiel puts it so neatly: Jews Don't Count.

    The party promoted Anas Sarwar as the first BAME leader of a political party. Scottish Labour isn't a political party, but Sarwar isn't even the first BAME Labour leader - Ed Milliband doesn't count apparently.
    Because to recognise millibrand as bame they wouldn't be able to claim that even for him as Disraeli would be the first Bame leader of a political party and incidentally prime minister
    Exactly. I stopped with Ed M and didn't mention Howard or the others because they weren't Labour.

    This is the Labour Party. Who claims to be anti-racist. And who still has a massive bind spot when it comes to anti-semitism.
    I would say "still" is unfair, given that the start of the problem can be dated precisely to September 2015.

    Anyway, using hatred of Starmer by Corbynista fanboys as a crude proxy for whether he's addressing the issue, ten minutes of scanning this forum today has made me quite optimistic.
    Weird given people kept going back before that time (whether they were looking for left wing or centrist anti semitism)

    I guess all the anti semitism people used as a weapon against Corbyn (or centrists) that appeared before that date was part of Corbyn's evil racist plan were he went back in time and planted racist comments that seem as if they existed before Corbyn won the leadership but clever older white men with large bank accounts saw through this...

    Young people and minorities haven't got this kind of magic perception which is why they can't see that Corbyn is secretly a time travelling racist.
    Please don't tar young people with your brush, most are sane and a great number of them also saw through corbyn and didnt vote for him 71% in fact
    Without young people Corbyn was buried, the old voted against him the young voted for him.

    Vast numbers of people as always didn't vote but there is a reason Labour did better among the young.

    Corbyn is the first political leader the younger generation has had.
    First?

    What about Ed Miliband? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair?

    Every "younger generation" has always had a leader or leaders politically. The only way to define Corbyn as the first is simply by wiping out any that come before him, in which case Starmer or A N Other could be a first next time.
    I've never understood why I'm supposed to think someone is greater because they had more of the young vote, as though its morally worth more.

    I criticise the grey vote bribes we get and the age polarisation of recent times is a worry, but we overdo the 'please think of the children(and young people)' stuff - same reason people love youthful campaigners.
    I'll never understand people criticising something without reading it, what is the point?

    I was on about younger people being less racist and them being the ones who voted for Corbyn (in relatively greater numbers)

    Was it really too difficult for you to go back and read the context in which is was used?

    Or are my posts just useful staging posts for you to have a self righteous whine without actually reading them?

    In future please read the context in which I am saying something or don't talk about my posts. Nothing worse than someone being self righteous when they don't even know what they are talking about.
    You need to calm the f*ck down, take your own advice and read what I wrote.

    Your post and the one which followed it led me to reflect on a tangential point of my own. It was not a criticism of you or your post and did not say as much.

    Why should not one person's thoughts serve as staging for another, separate point by another? I welcomed the discussion and it led me to think about something related but different.

    So f*ck you. Amazing how you just personified the very point you wanted to criticise about self righteousness.

    Not everything is about you. Nor do you own a discussion or a reply to a post which was not even yours. Just because it was in a thread with yours didn't make it a criticism of you.

    So vain.
    Oh, and TheJezziah, that's a criticism of you btw. Since you just invented one in your imagination to whinge about clearly you need help to identify an actual criticism of you.
    I would respectfully suggest you take some of your own advice and calm down. There's no need for this.
    I didn't know there had been a vacancy for site policeman, David?
    What made you think that it would be advertised @TOPPING ? Its disappointing when an interesting debate falls away into personal abuse. Anyway @kle4 , who is normally very civilised, took it in the right spirit.
    I wanted to know what the perks were.

    And yes wrt @kle4: "no you fuck off" was about the right spirit.

    But it would be a huge shame if @TheJezziah were to be inhibited in his posting.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    TOPPING said:

    UK cases by specimen date

    image

    Far k'nell. Turtles zeros all the way down.
    Similar to what we had last summer....
    But now we're at Herd Immunity so we can keep it, that wasn't the case then.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    DavidL said:

    So the scores on the doors for SKS are likely to be:

    Overall council seats, a bit of a wash, not much change either way.
    Hartlepool a loss.
    London a clear win, probably not on the first count.
    Scotland small progress
    Wales small retreat, not nearly as bad as it looked a month ago
    West Midlands Mayor, a bit of a thumping.
    Teeside Mayor probably a loss.
    Greater Manchester Mayor, a clear win.

    It's not a great scorecard, is it? More of a C- than a C+ I would say.

    Looks more like a D- to me, and if so SKS can join Peppermint Patty in Peanuts who always gets one as well. I see the bookies are suggesting a likelihood that SKS will step down during or before 2023 - which has a double pronged likelihood - he may step down by then because he is onto a loser, or (IMHO) he could well have lost or failed to win an election by the end of 2023 - with 2022 not impossible.

    However I don't think Hartlepool is lost for Labour yet

  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    There hasn't been a single poll of Greater Manchester I notice.
    Burnham has out performed the Labour Party there before.

    Were any of the mayoral elections not forgone conclusions?
    Well Tees, West of England and West Midlands seemed up in the air on the basis of the results last time not needing much change to be competitive this time, but from the looks of it at least 2 of those are actually certs. Street and Houchen have been name dropped here, but West of England's chap not so much.
    I think he's a newcomer. Previous West of England Tory Mayor is stepping down and didnt seem to have much of a profile.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Explain the logic of Labour losing in the groups most opposed to racism (young and minorities)

    If the centrists and right wing fairly tale about Corbyn being racist and Starmer being anti racist were true the opposite would happen.

    Starmer seems most popular (comparatively to Corbyn) among groups most in favour of racism (older white people) the same groups were Corbyn is least popular.

    I know this might be hard to hear but is it possible it is you that is wrong rather than the children Mr Skinner?

    The better starting point is not to be racist because its wrong. Too many of your fellow Corbynite activists - and Corbyn himself - cannot pass this test due to being usually passive but sometimes active anti-semites.

    Once you've got this "believing in something cos its right" thing down, the next barrier is not ramming your standards down other people's throats. You may be right and the other person wrong, but sneering / shouting won't change their view in your direction. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Finally, don't be a screaming hypocrite. Diane Abbott was on the receiving end of some horrendous racist abuse. She was also on the end of a lot of abuse because she is a shit politician that was willfully miscategorised as racist. At the same time Luciana Berger was also on the end of some horrendous racist abuse - with much of it coming from Labour members who then insisted it wasn't racist.
    Diane Abbott is an interesting one to compare with Israel.

    If you're attacking Abbott/Israel alone then that seems to be racism.

    If you're attacking Abbott along with Rebecca Wrong Daily, Laura Pillock, the Jezziah and the rest of them - then that's not racist.
    Wrong-Daily is white. Pillock is white. Berger is BAME. Abbott is BAME. My point was that in large parts of Labour there is a hierarchy of racism where as Baddiel puts it so neatly: Jews Don't Count.

    The party promoted Anas Sarwar as the first BAME leader of a political party. Scottish Labour isn't a political party, but Sarwar isn't even the first BAME Labour leader - Ed Milliband doesn't count apparently.
    Because to recognise millibrand as bame they wouldn't be able to claim that even for him as Disraeli would be the first Bame leader of a political party and incidentally prime minister
    Exactly. I stopped with Ed M and didn't mention Howard or the others because they weren't Labour.

    This is the Labour Party. Who claims to be anti-racist. And who still has a massive bind spot when it comes to anti-semitism.
    I would say "still" is unfair, given that the start of the problem can be dated precisely to September 2015.

    Anyway, using hatred of Starmer by Corbynista fanboys as a crude proxy for whether he's addressing the issue, ten minutes of scanning this forum today has made me quite optimistic.
    Weird given people kept going back before that time (whether they were looking for left wing or centrist anti semitism)

    I guess all the anti semitism people used as a weapon against Corbyn (or centrists) that appeared before that date was part of Corbyn's evil racist plan were he went back in time and planted racist comments that seem as if they existed before Corbyn won the leadership but clever older white men with large bank accounts saw through this...

    Young people and minorities haven't got this kind of magic perception which is why they can't see that Corbyn is secretly a time travelling racist.
    Please don't tar young people with your brush, most are sane and a great number of them also saw through corbyn and didnt vote for him 71% in fact
    Without young people Corbyn was buried, the old voted against him the young voted for him.

    Vast numbers of people as always didn't vote but there is a reason Labour did better among the young.

    Corbyn is the first political leader the younger generation has had.
    First?

    What about Ed Miliband? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair?

    Every "younger generation" has always had a leader or leaders politically. The only way to define Corbyn as the first is simply by wiping out any that come before him, in which case Starmer or A N Other could be a first next time.
    I've never understood why I'm supposed to think someone is greater because they had more of the young vote, as though its morally worth more.

    I criticise the grey vote bribes we get and the age polarisation of recent times is a worry, but we overdo the 'please think of the children(and young people)' stuff - same reason people love youthful campaigners.
    I'll never understand people criticising something without reading it, what is the point?

    I was on about younger people being less racist and them being the ones who voted for Corbyn (in relatively greater numbers)

    Was it really too difficult for you to go back and read the context in which is was used?

    Or are my posts just useful staging posts for you to have a self righteous whine without actually reading them?

    In future please read the context in which I am saying something or don't talk about my posts. Nothing worse than someone being self righteous when they don't even know what they are talking about.
    You need to calm the f*ck down, take your own advice and read what I wrote.

    Your post and the one which followed it led me to reflect on a tangential point of my own. It was not a criticism of you or your post and did not say as much.

    Why should not one person's thoughts serve as staging for another, separate point by another? I welcomed the discussion and it led me to think about something related but different.

    So f*ck you. Amazing how you just personified the very point you wanted to criticise about self righteousness.

    Not everything is about you. Nor do you own a discussion or a reply to a post which was not even yours. Just because it was in a thread with yours didn't make it a criticism of you.

    So vain.
    Oh, and TheJezziah, that's a criticism of you btw. Since you just invented one in your imagination to whinge about clearly you need help to identify an actual criticism of you.
    I would respectfully suggest you take some of your own advice and calm down. There's no need for this.
    I didn't know there had been a vacancy for site policeman, David?
    What made you think that it would be advertised @TOPPING ? Its disappointing when an interesting debate falls away into personal abuse. Anyway @kle4 , who is normally very civilised, took it in the right spirit.
    I wanted to know what the perks were.

    And yes wrt @kle4: "no you fuck off" was about the right spirit.

    But it would be a huge shame if @TheJezziah were to be inhibited in his posting.
    They're fantastic. You get to post any time you want, for free. And I agree.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    If you’re an MP for La République en Marche, a flag in the background isn’t sufficient.

    image

    IF the Survation poll is even halfway correct, would expect that plenty of Tory politicos will be following this dude's lead.

    With a big pix of Boris in the background, substituting the Union Jack and ditching the Starry Rag.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Cookie said:

    AlistairM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Hospital admissions are a week behind and haven't been updated in a few days. No mention of this on the site. Wondering what is happening. Maybe the numbers are too good/bad?
    Hospital admissions have been a week behind/slow to update for some weeks or months now. No conspiracy there, I don't think!

    I also think Ferguson at least and perhaps others HAVE updated their model, using new assumptions (i.e. reflecting real-world vaccine efficacy). I was amongst those bemoaning that they hadn't, but I think they now have. So we now have to target our ire at those further up the chain not budging.
    The hospital admissions data isn't generally updated on weekends and bank holidays...
    There really is hardly anyone in hospital with Covid
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited May 2021
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Explain the logic of Labour losing in the groups most opposed to racism (young and minorities)

    If the centrists and right wing fairly tale about Corbyn being racist and Starmer being anti racist were true the opposite would happen.

    Starmer seems most popular (comparatively to Corbyn) among groups most in favour of racism (older white people) the same groups were Corbyn is least popular.

    I know this might be hard to hear but is it possible it is you that is wrong rather than the children Mr Skinner?

    The better starting point is not to be racist because its wrong. Too many of your fellow Corbynite activists - and Corbyn himself - cannot pass this test due to being usually passive but sometimes active anti-semites.

    Once you've got this "believing in something cos its right" thing down, the next barrier is not ramming your standards down other people's throats. You may be right and the other person wrong, but sneering / shouting won't change their view in your direction. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Finally, don't be a screaming hypocrite. Diane Abbott was on the receiving end of some horrendous racist abuse. She was also on the end of a lot of abuse because she is a shit politician that was willfully miscategorised as racist. At the same time Luciana Berger was also on the end of some horrendous racist abuse - with much of it coming from Labour members who then insisted it wasn't racist.
    Diane Abbott is an interesting one to compare with Israel.

    If you're attacking Abbott/Israel alone then that seems to be racism.

    If you're attacking Abbott along with Rebecca Wrong Daily, Laura Pillock, the Jezziah and the rest of them - then that's not racist.
    Wrong-Daily is white. Pillock is white. Berger is BAME. Abbott is BAME. My point was that in large parts of Labour there is a hierarchy of racism where as Baddiel puts it so neatly: Jews Don't Count.

    The party promoted Anas Sarwar as the first BAME leader of a political party. Scottish Labour isn't a political party, but Sarwar isn't even the first BAME Labour leader - Ed Milliband doesn't count apparently.
    Because to recognise millibrand as bame they wouldn't be able to claim that even for him as Disraeli would be the first Bame leader of a political party and incidentally prime minister
    Exactly. I stopped with Ed M and didn't mention Howard or the others because they weren't Labour.

    This is the Labour Party. Who claims to be anti-racist. And who still has a massive bind spot when it comes to anti-semitism.
    I would say "still" is unfair, given that the start of the problem can be dated precisely to September 2015.

    Anyway, using hatred of Starmer by Corbynista fanboys as a crude proxy for whether he's addressing the issue, ten minutes of scanning this forum today has made me quite optimistic.
    Weird given people kept going back before that time (whether they were looking for left wing or centrist anti semitism)

    I guess all the anti semitism people used as a weapon against Corbyn (or centrists) that appeared before that date was part of Corbyn's evil racist plan were he went back in time and planted racist comments that seem as if they existed before Corbyn won the leadership but clever older white men with large bank accounts saw through this...

    Young people and minorities haven't got this kind of magic perception which is why they can't see that Corbyn is secretly a time travelling racist.
    Please don't tar young people with your brush, most are sane and a great number of them also saw through corbyn and didnt vote for him 71% in fact
    Without young people Corbyn was buried, the old voted against him the young voted for him.

    Vast numbers of people as always didn't vote but there is a reason Labour did better among the young.

    Corbyn is the first political leader the younger generation has had.
    First?

    What about Ed Miliband? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair?

    Every "younger generation" has always had a leader or leaders politically. The only way to define Corbyn as the first is simply by wiping out any that come before him, in which case Starmer or A N Other could be a first next time.
    I've never understood why I'm supposed to think someone is greater because they had more of the young vote, as though its morally worth more.

    I criticise the grey vote bribes we get and the age polarisation of recent times is a worry, but we overdo the 'please think of the children(and young people)' stuff - same reason people love youthful campaigners.
    I'll never understand people criticising something without reading it, what is the point?

    I was on about younger people being less racist and them being the ones who voted for Corbyn (in relatively greater numbers)

    Was it really too difficult for you to go back and read the context in which is was used?

    Or are my posts just useful staging posts for you to have a self righteous whine without actually reading them?

    In future please read the context in which I am saying something or don't talk about my posts. Nothing worse than someone being self righteous when they don't even know what they are talking about.
    You need to calm the f*ck down, take your own advice and read what I wrote.

    Your post and the one which followed it led me to reflect on a tangential point of my own. It was not a criticism of you or your post and did not say as much.

    Why should not one person's thoughts serve as staging for another, separate point by another? I welcomed the discussion and it led me to think about something related but different.

    So f*ck you. Amazing how you just personified the very point you wanted to criticise about self righteousness.

    Not everything is about you. Nor do you own a discussion or a reply to a post which was not even yours. Just because it was in a thread with yours didn't make it a criticism of you.

    So vain.
    Oh, and TheJezziah, that's a criticism of you btw. Since you just invented one in your imagination to whinge about clearly you need help to identify an actual criticism of you.
    I would respectfully suggest you take some of your own advice and calm down. There's no need for this.
    I didn't know there had been a vacancy for site policeman, David?
    What made you think that it would be advertised @TOPPING ? Its disappointing when an interesting debate falls away into personal abuse. Anyway kle4 , who is normally very civilised, took it in the right spirit.
    I wanted to know what the perks were.

    And yes wrt kle4: "no you fuck off" was about the right spirit.

    But it would be a huge shame if TheJezziah were to be inhibited in his posting.
    Actual last word, I hugely welcome Jezziah's viewpoints, as it's relatively rare here and needs to be heard, for better and ill.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    If you’re an MP for La République en Marche, a flag in the background isn’t sufficient.

    image

    It's a weird picture of Macron. Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough is the posture.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Nigelb said:

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    ...The estimates presented in this table package may differ from those based on administrative data or exit polls due to factors such as survey nonresponse, vote misreporting and methodological issues related to question wording and survey administration....
    I never claimed it was accurate, merely that the apparent discrepancy is being used to fuel the (bogus) narrative of a 'stolen' election.
    Yes, but note that 99.46% of the argument behind the "Biden stole the election from Trump" argument is based on similar misunderstanding (too often willful) of the basic numbers.

    Unholy alliance of statistical ignorance and political ideology. Which is NOT confined to Trumpsky & minions. But they are leading poster children for this nexus at the moment.
    Indeed but it is effective and helps explain (amongst other things) the result of the Texas special election and why Romney got so badly treated at his own convention. And why leading republicans such as Liz Cheney are finding life difficult. And why the republicans are horribly divided.


  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    So the scores on the doors for SKS are likely to be:

    Overall council seats, a bit of a wash, not much change either way.
    Hartlepool a loss.
    London a clear win, probably not on the first count.
    Scotland small progress
    Wales small retreat, not nearly as bad as it looked a month ago
    West Midlands Mayor, a bit of a thumping.
    Teeside Mayor probably a loss.
    Greater Manchester Mayor, a clear win.

    It's not a great scorecard, is it? More of a C- than a C+ I would say.

    Looks more like a D- to me, and if so SKS can join Peppermint Patty in Peanuts who always gets one as well. I see the bookies are suggesting a likelihood that SKS will step down during or before 2023 - which has a double pronged likelihood - he may step down by then because he is onto a loser, or (IMHO) he could well have lost or failed to win an election by the end of 2023 - with 2022 not impossible.

    However I don't think Hartlepool is lost for Labour yet

    That poll would have to be seriously wrong.

    I think the tories have it.

    Should be <1/10, perhaps even as short as 1/16.

    I’m nursing a moderate loss on that market :(
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,982
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    So the scores on the doors for SKS are likely to be:

    Overall council seats, a bit of a wash, not much change either way.
    Hartlepool a loss.
    London a clear win, probably not on the first count.
    Scotland small progress
    Wales small retreat, not nearly as bad as it looked a month ago
    West Midlands Mayor, a bit of a thumping.
    Teeside Mayor probably a loss.
    Greater Manchester Mayor, a clear win.

    It's not a great scorecard, is it? More of a C- than a C+ I would say.

    If there's no Scotland progress I would be saying more a solid D. IDS was dumped for a much much better performance than this.
    I had thought that Sarwar just might deliver second place behind the SNP. That is not what the polling is showing now though.
    If you look at the leader ratings Sarwar is in for a good night, DRoss not so much, but Alex Salmond and Alba will be lucky to get one seat.
    I think that they will get 2, 1 in the NE and 1 in Highland. An embarrassingly poor performance for the former FM.

    The other thing to bear in mind is that Scottish Tories are used to having really crap leaders. Until Ruth came along it was the norm. Didn't stop them voting.
    Speaking as a disgruntled Joanna Cherry supporter, don't write off their chances in Lothian - especially with carpetbagger Campbell at the top of the regional list. I know it's a Green stronghold, but in the absence of Andy Wightman there may be a route through, especially if the Edinburgh Central/West/South tactical voting from 2016 is repeated.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    Thanks, your assertion last night was wrong then.

    The 154m Census number is based on those that definitively reported having voted, you forget the 36m that didn't respond.

    As the Census bureau notes.

    The estimates presented in this table package may differ from those based on administrative data or exit polls due to factors such as survey nonresponse, vote misreporting and methodological issues related to question wording and survey administration.
    ....
    I know you and almost everybody on here would not like to face up to the fact that more than 70% of republican voters still don't think Biden got enough legit votes to win. But its true, they don't. And stuff like this is used to keep that notion going.

    On the contrary, we're quite happy to discuss it.
    However, we would like you to face up to the fact that (1) registered Republicans constitute only a third of the electorate, so you're only talking about one in five voters, and (2) the main reason they persist in that belief is that their leaders persist in lying about the election.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    I don't think the Tories have a single voter left around my way. So that's part of it. Hopefully just a small part, though, since such a swap would be electorally inefficient for Labour.
    Are there really seats where the Tory vote is zero? Even in seats like East Ham they manage ~15%.
    No, not yet. I think we can have a crack at it round here though. Can you imagine if we pulled it off at the next GE? Talk about your badge of honour! - and a great boost for house prices as people in more "diverse" areas hear about it and want a piece.
    Tories get 10% of the vote in Labour's safest seat (Walton) and Labour get 13% in the Tory's safest (S Holland). Nowhere near extinction time yet.

  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,982

    Any London Mayoral turnout markets ?

    45.3% in 2016..

    1% of 2.6 million votes for Count Binface is all I ask....
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    The JCVI have gone very quiet on whether they’re going to put more restrictions on AZ related to under 40s .

    They were supposed to make a decision last week . Are they waiting for after the elections on Thursday ? Have no 10 pressurized them into waiting ? Seems rather strange that some under 40s are being asked to make appointments and there’s still no decision from the JCVI.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    TOPPING said:

    UK cases by specimen date

    image

    Far k'nell. Turtles zeros all the way down.
    Similar to what we had last summer....
    Yes, but with added immunity (mostly vaccination, plus quite a lot of prior infection).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    AlistairM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Hospital admissions are a week behind and haven't been updated in a few days. No mention of this on the site. Wondering what is happening. Maybe the numbers are too good/bad?
    To know what is really going on, we wouldn't need to see the differential between the unvaccinated and vaccinated.

    This data is not being published by PHE - so we wait fro the next study that is being done within the NHS....

    My guesstimate is that we now have 2 epidemics - the one among the vaccinated, which is low level, pretty much no deaths and hospitalisations and another among the unvaccinated, which is bumping along, hence hospital admission still being a thing -

    image
    image

    The reason it is 2 epidemics, is that (as far as we know), the vaccinations reduce transmission, but not as much as they reduce death and hospitalisation. So, for the very near future, we are going to see COVID circulating - we almost certainly haven't reached the stage where R is below 1 without any measures. Yet.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    In 2014 a couple of days before the Heywood and Middleton by election a Ashcroft poll had Labour winning it by 19%, the actual result a 2% majority for Labour.

    #ConstituencyPollingIsDifficult
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    DavidL said:

    If you’re an MP for La République en Marche, a flag in the background isn’t sufficient.

    image

    It's a weird picture of Macron. Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough is the posture.
    And why is it on an easel ?
    Has he just finished a painting-by-numbers Macron ?

    Very odd.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Speaking of COVID, found out yesterday that my apartment manger contracted it last October. Was very sick but recovered; she's maybe 40 and (it appears) in good health otherwise.

    She doesn't know how or where she got it. But her job consists of managing several apartment buildings, she's always going in and out of apartments, dealing with tenants and other workers, schlepping around town all the time.

    Thus are greater risk that say yours truly, who works (sporadically) at home and has mostly stayed in except for grocery shopping and solitary walks.

    She's been vaccinated now, just one jab cause she'd already had the crud. Said her reaction was more than ordinary - "my immune system went a little crazy" - but she soon felt fine and now looks fit as a fiddle. Though of course long-term there could well be consequences, hopefully not serious.

    Hearing about this yesterday made me both sad and mad. Sad at the situation, mad at the "leaders" who made a bad situation worse.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    In 2014 a couple of days before the Heywood and Middleton by election a Ashcroft poll had Labour winning it by 19%, the actual result a 2% majority for Labour.

    #ConstituencyPollingIsDifficult

    I've backed Lab at 5s (6bf).

    Why? No idea apart from if we Brits are as bloody-minded as we are supposed to be it will be a matter of honour to give the incumbents a shock in case anyone is being taken for granted.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    I don't think the Tories have a single voter left around my way. So that's part of it. Hopefully just a small part, though, since such a swap would be electorally inefficient for Labour.
    Are there really seats where the Tory vote is zero? Even in seats like East Ham they manage ~15%.
    No, not yet. I think we can have a crack at it round here though. Can you imagine if we pulled it off at the next GE? Talk about your badge of honour! - and a great boost for house prices as people in more "diverse" areas hear about it and want a piece.
    Tories get 10% of the vote in Labour's safest seat (Walton) and Labour get 13% in the Tory's safest (S Holland). Nowhere near extinction time yet.
    True. But there's 3 years to go till the GE and with the contempt that this government has for educated, left/liberal metropolitans I think "Zero Tory" is a feasible stretch goal for London NW3.
  • CursingStoneCursingStone Posts: 421
    edited May 2021

    In 2014 a couple of days before the Heywood and Middleton by election a Ashcroft poll had Labour winning it by 19%, the actual result a 2% majority for Labour.

    #ConstituencyPollingIsDifficult

    A seat that the conservatives came third in at the byelection behind UKIP on 12% of the vote... A seat the Cons won in 2019. #ukipgatewayvote
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    sarissa said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    So the scores on the doors for SKS are likely to be:

    Overall council seats, a bit of a wash, not much change either way.
    Hartlepool a loss.
    London a clear win, probably not on the first count.
    Scotland small progress
    Wales small retreat, not nearly as bad as it looked a month ago
    West Midlands Mayor, a bit of a thumping.
    Teeside Mayor probably a loss.
    Greater Manchester Mayor, a clear win.

    It's not a great scorecard, is it? More of a C- than a C+ I would say.

    If there's no Scotland progress I would be saying more a solid D. IDS was dumped for a much much better performance than this.
    I had thought that Sarwar just might deliver second place behind the SNP. That is not what the polling is showing now though.
    If you look at the leader ratings Sarwar is in for a good night, DRoss not so much, but Alex Salmond and Alba will be lucky to get one seat.
    I think that they will get 2, 1 in the NE and 1 in Highland. An embarrassingly poor performance for the former FM.

    The other thing to bear in mind is that Scottish Tories are used to having really crap leaders. Until Ruth came along it was the norm. Didn't stop them voting.
    Speaking as a disgruntled Joanna Cherry supporter, don't write off their chances in Lothian - especially with carpetbagger Campbell at the top of the regional list. I know it's a Green stronghold, but in the absence of Andy Wightman there may be a route through, especially if the Edinburgh Central/West/South tactical voting from 2016 is repeated.
    It's hard to predict but I don't think that there is any chance of the SNP getting a single list MSP in Lothian. They didn't last time and Edinburgh Central is a probable pick up for them. It will be interesting to see what happens to the Green vote without Wightman. Some of it may well go to Alba.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171

    Given the tiny number of deaths now it must be quite possible that some if not all of these so-called Coronavirus deaths are naturally occurring deaths of people who by pure coincidence tested positive within last 28 days?

    That wasn't true all pandemic, though its certainly been a factor which is why the real death toll is tens of thousands fewer than the 'official' one. But it must surely be a real factor now?

    +1
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    For whatever reason, PB is proving to be a bear to load on my humble PC this AM (here in Seattle). Whereas New York Times, no problem.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    If you’re an MP for La République en Marche, a flag in the background isn’t sufficient.

    image

    It's a weird picture of Macron. Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough is the posture.
    And why is it on an easel ?
    Has he just finished a painting-by-numbers Macron ?

    Very odd.
    Two flags plus a portrait of The Leader*? Dura Ace will spontaneously combust....

    *Maybe he has a portrait of Petain on the flip side?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    edited May 2021
    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    felix said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    Possibly places where they already weigh the labour vote like london
    And yet Khan is down.
    My money's on the Home Counties.
    I agree. Starmer’s picking up votes in blue-remainia, isn’t he?

    Labour could put in a surprisingly good performance in Chesham & Amersham.
    I actually doubt your last point and wrt the Home counties not sure they would win much in a GE here - potential to make the Tory vote even more efficient.
    Well indeed. Analogous to Tyne and Wear. Massive swings to the Tories all this century has left 12 out of 12 Labour seats much more efficiently won.
    I do think my home town seat of Sunderland central could go blue for the first time since 1963!
    I'm not convinced. Sunderland Central is a university seat after all and is being gentrified, albeit slowly (believe it or not). It also contains the more middle class metropolitan liberal elite parts of Sunderland.

    Plus Sunderland/Tyne and Wear generally hasn't exactly been given a ton of Tory red meat to chew on like Teesside.

    The council elections on Thursday should be informative.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    TOPPING said:

    In 2014 a couple of days before the Heywood and Middleton by election a Ashcroft poll had Labour winning it by 19%, the actual result a 2% majority for Labour.

    #ConstituencyPollingIsDifficult

    I've backed Lab at 5s (6bf).

    Why? No idea apart from if we Brits are as bloody-minded as we are supposed to be it will be a matter of honour to give the incumbents a shock in case anyone is being taken for granted.
    Labour are definitely value now. Without the Mayoral vote this would be a toss up IMO. It'll almost certainly be a lot closer than the Survation poll but with so many postal votes in already you can see why Boris would be confident.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    nico679 said:

    The JCVI have gone very quiet on whether they’re going to put more restrictions on AZ related to under 40s .

    They were supposed to make a decision last week . Are they waiting for after the elections on Thursday ? Have no 10 pressurized them into waiting ? Seems rather strange that some under 40s are being asked to make appointments and there’s still no decision from the JCVI.

    Meanwhile the AZ vaccine is being used for under 40 rollout which has already begun. That's the one I was given on Saturday morning.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    If you’re an MP for La République en Marche, a flag in the background isn’t sufficient.

    image

    It's a weird picture of Macron. Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough is the posture.
    And why is it on an easel ?
    Has he just finished a painting-by-numbers Macron ?

    Very odd.
    French.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    I was tracking West Yorkshire hospital COVID admissions (across the 5 major Acute trusts that, approximately, cover the area) just to see if any local holdback was needed:

    w/e 11/4 - 121
    w/e 18/4 - 80
    w/e 25/4 - 65

    If this is reflected across the higher incidence areas, at current I'd say May 17th release is on, in full.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    Cookie said:

    AlistairM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Hospital admissions are a week behind and haven't been updated in a few days. No mention of this on the site. Wondering what is happening. Maybe the numbers are too good/bad?
    Hospital admissions have been a week behind/slow to update for some weeks or months now. No conspiracy there, I don't think!

    I also think Ferguson at least and perhaps others HAVE updated their model, using new assumptions (i.e. reflecting real-world vaccine efficacy). I was amongst those bemoaning that they hadn't, but I think they now have. So we now have to target our ire at those further up the chain not budging.
    And to be fair, a lot of what's happened is that the vaccines have turned out to be even more effective than we could reasonably have hoped. Go boffins.

    Challenge now is to go from 1 billion doses to 16 billion.

    (And I think nudging the mid-May unlocking may well be more trouble than it's worth, though it's definitely worth looking at the June one again. After all, the Macron plan for France is to get rid of a lot of restrictions at the end of June. And whilst I am fairly confident that the vaccination lag between UK and EU will close up a fair bit in late May and June, reopening that soon will also need a degree of confidence where the UK has been cautious.)
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Nigelb said:

    Hartlepool Shmartlepool.

    The Speccie points out that Starmer might have to fight another nightmare seat after Thursday. Tracy Brabin will apparently step down as Batley and Spen MP if she triumphs in the West Yorkshire Mayoralty, according to the Speccie.

    PB is way ahead of the Speccie, from March.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/07/things-to-look-forward-to-in-2021-an-exciting-by-election/

    PS - So many of us are waiting for you to provide that link about the census. It really has huge betting implications.
    Why do I feel like I am walking into a trap?

    There's a perfectly gettable press release from the US census bureau from 29 April that says 155m people over 18 voted in the US presidential.

    CNBC claimed on in November 2020 that 'at least 159.8m ballots were cast?'

    It doesn't prove anything but it stokes the republican fires.

    What's the big deal?
    My google skills aren't working, just asking for a link, if it is gettable could you post it please.
    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2020-presidential-election-voting-and-registration-tables-now-available.html#:~:text=APRIL 29, 2021 — The 2020,by the U.S. Census Bureau.
    Thanks, your assertion last night was wrong then.

    The 154m Census number is based on those that definitively reported having voted, you forget the 36m that didn't respond.

    As the Census bureau notes.

    The estimates presented in this table package may differ from those based on administrative data or exit polls due to factors such as survey nonresponse, vote misreporting and methodological issues related to question wording and survey administration.
    ....
    I know you and almost everybody on here would not like to face up to the fact that more than 70% of republican voters still don't think Biden got enough legit votes to win. But its true, they don't. And stuff like this is used to keep that notion going.

    On the contrary, we're quite happy to discuss it.
    However, we would like you to face up to the fact that (1) registered Republicans constitute only a third of the electorate, so you're only talking about one in five voters, and (2) the main reason they persist in that belief is that their leaders persist in lying about the election.
    Caveat - "Republican voters" are WAY more than "registered Republicans" for several reasons, for example states such as my own beloved WA that do NOT have party registration.

    The Republican voters Contrarian is referring to, are folks who voted for Republican President & nominee Trumpsky. Of which 70% equates to approx. one in three voters.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    Given the tiny number of deaths now it must be quite possible that some if not all of these so-called Coronavirus deaths are naturally occurring deaths of people who by pure coincidence tested positive within last 28 days?

    That wasn't true all pandemic, though its certainly been a factor which is why the real death toll is tens of thousands fewer than the 'official' one. But it must surely be a real factor now?

    Yes but on the other hand many will have died of Covid outside of 28 days which will not be in figures. I've kind of accepted that one balances the other.

    Only 4 today - on a murder Tuesday. (Unless bank holiday moves that back to Wednesday?)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    AlistairM said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cases now dropping like a stone WoW, deaths almost down to zero. Yet here we are sitting in the cold drinking beer while the nice warm pubs are still closed off.

    The scientists have made doom porn modelling an art form. I'm still waiting for those idiots who said we'd have a third wave worse than the second wave to retract their idiot model. Their agenda is laughably transparent and it's time for them to be forced into printing retractions.

    Hospital admissions are a week behind and haven't been updated in a few days. No mention of this on the site. Wondering what is happening. Maybe the numbers are too good/bad?
    To know what is really going on, we wouldn't need to see the differential between the unvaccinated and vaccinated.

    This data is not being published by PHE - so we wait fro the next study that is being done within the NHS....

    My guesstimate is that we now have 2 epidemics - the one among the vaccinated, which is low level, pretty much no deaths and hospitalisations and another among the unvaccinated, which is bumping along, hence hospital admission still being a thing -

    image
    image

    The reason it is 2 epidemics, is that (as far as we know), the vaccinations reduce transmission, but not as much as they reduce death and hospitalisation. So, for the very near future, we are going to see COVID circulating - we almost certainly haven't reached the stage where R is below 1 without any measures. Yet.
    And yet the ONS survey last week showed a 40% reduction in cases in the community.

    I see no evidence R would be meaningfully above 1 now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Andy_JS said:

    Given the tiny number of deaths now it must be quite possible that some if not all of these so-called Coronavirus deaths are naturally occurring deaths of people who by pure coincidence tested positive within last 28 days?

    That wasn't true all pandemic, though its certainly been a factor which is why the real death toll is tens of thousands fewer than the 'official' one. But it must surely be a real factor now?

    +1
    The hospital admissions and deaths are consistent with each other

    The real question is the ratios of unvaccinated vs first shot (+21 days) vs both shots (+21 days)
  • CursingStoneCursingStone Posts: 421
    Brom said:

    TOPPING said:

    In 2014 a couple of days before the Heywood and Middleton by election a Ashcroft poll had Labour winning it by 19%, the actual result a 2% majority for Labour.

    #ConstituencyPollingIsDifficult

    I've backed Lab at 5s (6bf).

    Why? No idea apart from if we Brits are as bloody-minded as we are supposed to be it will be a matter of honour to give the incumbents a shock in case anyone is being taken for granted.
    Labour are definitely value now. Without the Mayoral vote this would be a toss up IMO. It'll almost certainly be a lot closer than the Survation poll but with so many postal votes in already you can see why Boris would be confident.
    I'll bite at 10 on betfair. Will bump £50 on it...
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    edited May 2021
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    If you’re an MP for La République en Marche, a flag in the background isn’t sufficient.

    image

    It's a weird picture of Macron. Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough is the posture.
    And why is it on an easel ?
    Has he just finished a painting-by-numbers Macron ?

    Very odd.
    Reminds me of Margritte's The Human Condition. Can we be sure it is a painting and not actually Macron hiding (partially) behind an easel? He's short, right? Add a bit of perspective...
  • CursingStoneCursingStone Posts: 421

    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    felix said:

    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    Possibly places where they already weigh the labour vote like london
    And yet Khan is down.
    My money's on the Home Counties.
    I agree. Starmer’s picking up votes in blue-remainia, isn’t he?

    Labour could put in a surprisingly good performance in Chesham & Amersham.
    I actually doubt your last point and wrt the Home counties not sure they would win much in a GE here - potential to make the Tory vote even more efficient.
    Well indeed. Analogous to Tyne and Wear. Massive swings to the Tories all this century has left 12 out of 12 Labour seats much more efficiently won.
    I do think my home town seat of Sunderland central could go blue for the first time since 1963!
    I'm not convinced. Sunderland Central is a university seat after all and is being gentrified, albeit slowly (believe it or not). It also contains the more middle class metropolitan liberal elite parts of Sunderland.

    Plus Sunderland/Tyne and Wear generally hasn't exactly been given a ton of Tory red meat to chew on like Teesside.

    The council elections on Thursday should be informative.
    I have lived in Pennywell, was like a series of scenes off Shameless.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Endillion said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Explain the logic of Labour losing in the groups most opposed to racism (young and minorities)

    If the centrists and right wing fairly tale about Corbyn being racist and Starmer being anti racist were true the opposite would happen.

    Starmer seems most popular (comparatively to Corbyn) among groups most in favour of racism (older white people) the same groups were Corbyn is least popular.

    I know this might be hard to hear but is it possible it is you that is wrong rather than the children Mr Skinner?

    The better starting point is not to be racist because its wrong. Too many of your fellow Corbynite activists - and Corbyn himself - cannot pass this test due to being usually passive but sometimes active anti-semites.

    Once you've got this "believing in something cos its right" thing down, the next barrier is not ramming your standards down other people's throats. You may be right and the other person wrong, but sneering / shouting won't change their view in your direction. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Finally, don't be a screaming hypocrite. Diane Abbott was on the receiving end of some horrendous racist abuse. She was also on the end of a lot of abuse because she is a shit politician that was willfully miscategorised as racist. At the same time Luciana Berger was also on the end of some horrendous racist abuse - with much of it coming from Labour members who then insisted it wasn't racist.
    Diane Abbott is an interesting one to compare with Israel.

    If you're attacking Abbott/Israel alone then that seems to be racism.

    If you're attacking Abbott along with Rebecca Wrong Daily, Laura Pillock, the Jezziah and the rest of them - then that's not racist.
    Wrong-Daily is white. Pillock is white. Berger is BAME. Abbott is BAME. My point was that in large parts of Labour there is a hierarchy of racism where as Baddiel puts it so neatly: Jews Don't Count.

    The party promoted Anas Sarwar as the first BAME leader of a political party. Scottish Labour isn't a political party, but Sarwar isn't even the first BAME Labour leader - Ed Milliband doesn't count apparently.
    Because to recognise millibrand as bame they wouldn't be able to claim that even for him as Disraeli would be the first Bame leader of a political party and incidentally prime minister
    Exactly. I stopped with Ed M and didn't mention Howard or the others because they weren't Labour.

    This is the Labour Party. Who claims to be anti-racist. And who still has a massive bind spot when it comes to anti-semitism.
    I would say "still" is unfair, given that the start of the problem can be dated precisely to September 2015.

    Anyway, using hatred of Starmer by Corbynista fanboys as a crude proxy for whether he's addressing the issue, ten minutes of scanning this forum today has made me quite optimistic.
    Weird given people kept going back before that time (whether they were looking for left wing or centrist anti semitism)

    I guess all the anti semitism people used as a weapon against Corbyn (or centrists) that appeared before that date was part of Corbyn's evil racist plan were he went back in time and planted racist comments that seem as if they existed before Corbyn won the leadership but clever older white men with large bank accounts saw through this...

    Young people and minorities haven't got this kind of magic perception which is why they can't see that Corbyn is secretly a time travelling racist.
    Please don't tar young people with your brush, most are sane and a great number of them also saw through corbyn and didnt vote for him 71% in fact
    Without young people Corbyn was buried, the old voted against him the young voted for him.

    Vast numbers of people as always didn't vote but there is a reason Labour did better among the young.

    Corbyn is the first political leader the younger generation has had.
    First?

    What about Ed Miliband? Nick Clegg? Tony Blair?

    Every "younger generation" has always had a leader or leaders politically. The only way to define Corbyn as the first is simply by wiping out any that come before him, in which case Starmer or A N Other could be a first next time.
    I've never understood why I'm supposed to think someone is greater because they had more of the young vote, as though its morally worth more.

    I criticise the grey vote bribes we get and the age polarisation of recent times is a worry, but we overdo the 'please think of the children(and young people)' stuff - same reason people love youthful campaigners.
    I'll never understand people criticising something without reading it, what is the point?

    I was on about younger people being less racist and them being the ones who voted for Corbyn (in relatively greater numbers)

    Was it really too difficult for you to go back and read the context in which is was used?

    Or are my posts just useful staging posts for you to have a self righteous whine without actually reading them?

    In future please read the context in which I am saying something or don't talk about my posts. Nothing worse than someone being self righteous when they don't even know what they are talking about.
    You need to calm the f*ck down, take your own advice and read what I wrote.

    Your post and the one which followed it led me to reflect on a tangential point of my own. It was not a criticism of you or your post and did not say as much.

    Why should not one person's thoughts serve as staging for another, separate point by another? I welcomed the discussion and it led me to think about something related but different.

    So f*ck you. Amazing how you just personified the very point you wanted to criticise about self righteousness.

    Not everything is about you. Nor do you own a discussion or a reply to a post which was not even yours. Just because it was in a thread with yours didn't make it a criticism of you.

    So vain.
    Oh, and TheJezziah, that's a criticism of you btw. Since you just invented one in your imagination to whinge about clearly you need help to identify an actual criticism of you.
    I would respectfully suggest you take some of your own advice and calm down. There's no need for this.
    I didn't know there had been a vacancy for site policeman, David?
    Oh no - not a PCC election here on PB. How do I spoil my ballot?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200

    nico679 said:

    The JCVI have gone very quiet on whether they’re going to put more restrictions on AZ related to under 40s .

    They were supposed to make a decision last week . Are they waiting for after the elections on Thursday ? Have no 10 pressurized them into waiting ? Seems rather strange that some under 40s are being asked to make appointments and there’s still no decision from the JCVI.

    Meanwhile the AZ vaccine is being used for under 40 rollout which has already begun. That's the one I was given on Saturday morning.
    Well maybe the JCVI won’t bother making a decision but they seemed adamant that they had to clarify the situation before the general under 40s role out begins .
  • CursingStoneCursingStone Posts: 421
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    I don't think the Tories have a single voter left around my way. So that's part of it. Hopefully just a small part, though, since such a swap would be electorally inefficient for Labour.
    Are there really seats where the Tory vote is zero? Even in seats like East Ham they manage ~15%.
    No, not yet. I think we can have a crack at it round here though. Can you imagine if we pulled it off at the next GE? Talk about your badge of honour! - and a great boost for house prices as people in more "diverse" areas hear about it and want a piece.
    Tories get 10% of the vote in Labour's safest seat (Walton) and Labour get 13% in the Tory's safest (S Holland). Nowhere near extinction time yet.
    True. But there's 3 years to go till the GE and with the contempt that this government has for educated, left/liberal metropolitans I think "Zero Tory" is a feasible stretch goal for London NW3.
    The contempt is nowhere near as high as it needs to be. The swamp needs to be drained, but it seems highly unlikely .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    If you’re an MP for La République en Marche, a flag in the background isn’t sufficient.

    image

    It's a weird picture of Macron. Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough is the posture.
    And why is it on an easel ?
    Has he just finished a painting-by-numbers Macron ?

    Very odd.
    Reminds me of Margritte's The Human Condition. Can we be sure it is a painting and not actually Macron hiding (partially) behind an easel? He's short, right? Add a bit of perspective...
    No, he cannot be short as he's taller than me.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Lets just think about this - 10 years plus into a tory government - after austerity, covid cock ups and recent revelations - but Labour look set to lose Hartlepool in a by-election........

    Labour need to change - but not in a way Jezziah would want.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    ping said:

    Assuming the polls are true - and labour is losing significant votes in Hartlepool, doing pretty badly in the West Midlands, but ~level pegging overall, WHERE are they piling up votes?

    I don’t get it.

    Has anyone dug into the subsamples?

    I don't think the Tories have a single voter left around my way. So that's part of it. Hopefully just a small part, though, since such a swap would be electorally inefficient for Labour.
    Are there really seats where the Tory vote is zero? Even in seats like East Ham they manage ~15%.
    No, not yet. I think we can have a crack at it round here though. Can you imagine if we pulled it off at the next GE? Talk about your badge of honour! - and a great boost for house prices as people in more "diverse" areas hear about it and want a piece.
    Tories get 10% of the vote in Labour's safest seat (Walton) and Labour get 13% in the Tory's safest (S Holland). Nowhere near extinction time yet.
    True. But there's 3 years to go till the GE and with the contempt that this government has for educated, left/liberal metropolitans I think "Zero Tory" is a feasible stretch goal for London NW3.
    I think the bantz of being the only Tory in NW3 would be too strong to resist so you'll get a few thousand votes on that basis alone.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    Floater said:

    Lets just think about this - 10 years plus into a tory government - after austerity, covid cock ups and recent revelations - but Labour look set to lose Hartlepool in a by-election........

    Labour need to change - but not in a way Jezziah would want.

    I'm not sure if you've realised but there's no austerity. We're currently clearing the equivalent of the Amazon Magic Money Rain Forest
This discussion has been closed.