The Hartlepool by-election is a must win for both Johnson and Starmer – politicalbetting.com

JohnLilburne said:

SouthamObserver said:

RochdalePioneers said:

I have already set out why I believe the Tories can take the seat. That they have already taken the council thanks to the collapse of Labour shows the direction of travel in the town. Yes I know that the council is a Tory / Independents coalition. Thats what happens with "independents" on Teesside - they break apart the former Labour vote and back the Tories because eugh Labour.

Candidate selection will be crucial. If the Tories can find a local pick that would help. Labour aren't - its either a Paul Williams fix or la Pidcock gets onto the shortlist thanks to hard left elements on the NEC. Either way neither is local. And local is very much an issue in Hartlepool looking at the warring factions of Hartlepool Independent councillors they now have.

I do wonder if a Paul Williams parachuting might play to Labour's favour though. OK so it loses them any chance of winning the PCC, but he is a well respected doctor. Play the health card - "I've been battling to save people from Covid and the Tories are scared of a public enquiry because they know what it will find". Might work. The entire campaign will be posted leaflets written elsewhere because have I mentioned that Hartlepool CLP is bonkers?

Ultimately it comes down to this. Its Super Thursday so turnout will be high. Most people will vote Tory for Mayor. Many of them will vote for their local flavour of anti-Labour for council. If the Labour candidate for MP is Paul Williams they will vote for the Tory for PCC. To then "loyally" vote Labour for MP is a stretch - once people start voting against, they keep voting against. And it is "AGAINST" Labour and not "FOR" any other candidate. Labour has become toxic on Teesside in a way that I can scarcely believe.

That all makes sense - except for one thing: turnout is going to be very low, even lower than it would usually be for local council elections. Covid will see to that.

My council sent everyone a postal voting application a few weeks ago. I'd be surprised if most councils didn't do likewise. In fact I'm surprised the Government didn't make these elections postal-only.

Wasn't there a something from the electoral commission?? advising against an all-postal May elections - they were worried about the system breaking down or something?

Mr. Eagles, aye. Sounds like, if only we taxed everyone enough then free goodies could be flung by the state and everyone would be prosperous.

Economic reality would have other ideas.

Gallowgate said:

@TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/FreeNorthNow/status/1372100445582266376?s=20

These guys cannot be a serious party.

Their colours are Vatican Yellow and Tyrian Purple like AS Roma. Add in the whippet in the logo and you've got electoral semtex.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Morris_Dancer said:

*raises an eyebrow*

Northern Independence?

New one to me.

I've mentioned them on here before.

WHAT WE'RE FIGHTING FOR

To build a better, fairer and freer North for all.
To campaign for a referendum on the independence of the North, to be decided by the people of the North.
A green industrial rebirth.

WHO WE ARE

The Northern Independence Party is a democratic socialist party, who are committed to uplifting the voices of our members. We were founded in 2020 to combat the injustice of the north/south divide. We stand opposed to all forms of ideology based on hatred and bigotry.

https://www.freethenorth.co.uk/

I don't think Democratic Socialism appeals to either of us nor does Northern Independence.

So this is another branch of United Socialist Unite Alliance?

rottenborough said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Morris_Dancer said:

*raises an eyebrow*

Northern Independence?

New one to me.

I've mentioned them on here before.

WHAT WE'RE FIGHTING FOR

To build a better, fairer and freer North for all.
To campaign for a referendum on the independence of the North, to be decided by the people of the North.
A green industrial rebirth.

WHO WE ARE

The Northern Independence Party is a democratic socialist party, who are committed to uplifting the voices of our members. We were founded in 2020 to combat the injustice of the north/south divide. We stand opposed to all forms of ideology based on hatred and bigotry.

https://www.freethenorth.co.uk/

I don't think Democratic Socialism appeals to either of us nor does Northern Independence.

So this is another branch of United Socialist Unite Alliance?

IIRC they originally started off as the Yorkshire/Northern Devolution party then went full extreme.

DavidL said:

SandyRentool said:

Hooray! The age threshold has been dropped to 50, so I've been able to book my vaccination appointments.

First shot on Monday then an 11 week gap.

It has given me a tingle inside.

59 and still waiting for Scotland's NHS to send me an appointment. Nothing as customer friendly as a booking service up here.

The good news is that MrsL got out of hospital last night and should be fit for hers on Thursday. She was the only person in her bay wearing a mask. She even slept in it. There was no ventilation. It was also a mixed bay which I thought had been stopped. At least one of the men was suffering early dementia and wandered about unimpeded. On this experience it is not too hard to see why 2/3rds of all Scottish infections have taken place in hospital. I am so glad I was able to get her home.

That sounds dreadful. Totally understand why you are very pleased that you've got her out of there.

Has him out of Lewis stated his intention yet?

Off-topic ish.

I see that the London Mayoral elections are going to FPTP.

Why?

(Picked up from some euro-types declaring end-of-democracy and full on Orban-ism in the UK, but apparently in the Tory manifesto.)

(Morning all)

Shadsy must be delighted with all those NIP bets.

Gallowgate said:

@TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/FreeNorthNow/status/1372100445582266376?s=20

These guys cannot be a serious party.

The real question as to their success is:
Do they have the "ground game" to deliver 9 leaflets to every household in Hartlepool in a month, until people are sick of their leaflets?

Freggles said:

The NIP seems to attract a lot of anime fans and people with anthropomorphic animals as their avatars on Twitter, but I'm not sure their brand of Corbynite ultra-woke Remain politics is a winner in Hartlepool.

Hartlepool loves furries. Probably.

Gallowgate said:

Pulpstar said:

https://v.cent.co/tweet/1371549960030842893 bidding at $1 million for a tweet

I'm confused. Are you buying the rights to the song as a NFT, a copy of the song as a NFT, or a copy of the tweet as a NFT?

Hilarious.

Dunno, if I had a million $ I wouldn't be spending it on this.

MattW said:

Off-topic ish.

I see that the London Mayoral elections are going to FPTP.

Why?

(Picked up from some euro-types declaring end-of-democracy and full on Orban-ism in the UK, but apparently in the Tory manifesto.)

(Morning all)

Apparently the 2011 AV referendum was a rejection of all non FPTP voting systems.

Which leads to the question are the Tory party going to change their leadership election rules as Tory leaders are chosen under a form of quasi-AV.

Gallowgate said:

Freggles said:

The NIP seems to attract a lot of anime fans and people with anthropomorphic animals as their avatars on Twitter, but I'm not sure their brand of Corbynite ultra-woke Remain politics is a winner in Hartlepool.

Hartlepool loves furries. Probably.

Well you can argue H'Angus The Monkey is a furry.

Also this:

Our ambition is for full devolution
across England, building on the
successful devolution of powers to
city region mayors, Police and Crime
Commissioners and others, so that
every part of our country has the
power to shape its own destiny. We will
publish an English Devolution White
Paper setting out our plans next year

Hmmm.

Pulpstar said:

DavidL said:

SandyRentool said:

Hooray! The age threshold has been dropped to 50, so I've been able to book my vaccination appointments.

First shot on Monday then an 11 week gap.

It has given me a tingle inside.

59 and still waiting for Scotland's NHS to send me an appointment. Nothing as customer friendly as a booking service up here.

The good news is that MrsL got out of hospital last night and should be fit for hers on Thursday. She was the only person in her bay wearing a mask. She even slept in it. There was no ventilation. It was also a mixed bay which I thought had been stopped. At least one of the men was suffering early dementia and wandered about unimpeded. On this experience it is not too hard to see why 2/3rds of all Scottish infections have taken place in hospital. I am so glad I was able to get her home.

Simply not good enough. Hopefully you and Mrs L will be fit and antibody producing in a few weeks.

My biggest concern coming out of the Pandemic is that it has become impossible to criticise the NHS. It's inefficient and ineffective, often poorly run and seemingly immune to questioning. The death rate from Covid is a concern when we compare the NHS to other large countries in Europe. By the way, what have GPs been doing for the last year? So many questions need to be asked but we have turned the NHS into a sacred cow.

Fenman said:

Pulpstar said:

DavidL said:

SandyRentool said:

Hooray! The age threshold has been dropped to 50, so I've been able to book my vaccination appointments.

First shot on Monday then an 11 week gap.

It has given me a tingle inside.

59 and still waiting for Scotland's NHS to send me an appointment. Nothing as customer friendly as a booking service up here.

The good news is that MrsL got out of hospital last night and should be fit for hers on Thursday. She was the only person in her bay wearing a mask. She even slept in it. There was no ventilation. It was also a mixed bay which I thought had been stopped. At least one of the men was suffering early dementia and wandered about unimpeded. On this experience it is not too hard to see why 2/3rds of all Scottish infections have taken place in hospital. I am so glad I was able to get her home.

Simply not good enough. Hopefully you and Mrs L will be fit and antibody producing in a few weeks.

My biggest concern coming out of the Pandemic is that it has become impossible to criticise the NHS. It's inefficient and ineffective, often poorly run and seemingly immune to questioning. The death rate from Covid is a concern when we compare the NHS to other large countries in Europe. By the way, what have GPs been doing for the last year? So many questions need to be asked but we have turned the NHS into a sacred cow.

GPs are private so we can criticise them all we want without offending the religion.

Down with GPs!

TheScreamingEagles said:

Right, here's something to amuse you all.

In about 15 minutes I will be partaking in my employer's bi-annual sexual harassment awareness training course.

For most of today I have to watch and read things and say if that counts as sexual harassment and why.

Bisexuals get sexual harassment awareness training but others don't? Sounds like a serious case of discrimination.

Gallowgate said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Right, here's something to amuse you all.

In about 15 minutes I will be partaking in my employer's bi-annual sexual harassment awareness training course.

For most of today I have to watch and read things and say if that counts as sexual harassment and why.

Bisexuals get sexual harassment awareness training but others don't? Sounds like a serious case of discrimination.

I'm not allowed to crack gags like that anymore.

Nor my answer to

Q: Do you have any issues with a woman in a position of authority?

Me: No, I've never had a problem with a woman in any position.

Pulpstar said:

Gallowgate said:

Pulpstar said:

https://v.cent.co/tweet/1371549960030842893 bidding at $1 million for a tweet

I'm confused. Are you buying the rights to the song as a NFT, a copy of the song as a NFT, or a copy of the tweet as a NFT?

Hilarious.

Further, Elon could retweet the tweet and then sell it as another NFT.

You can see why he's so rich.

RochdalePioneers said:

Gallowgate said:

Everyone criticises Labour for taking their "heartlands" for granted however the same could very well happen to the Conservatives. All this attention on the "red wall" could very well lead, in the long run, to traditional Conservative seats thinking that the Party is now for urban town dwellers and not for them. Especially if Brexit ends up being a negative for agriculture etc.

Not something likely to happen in the near future but it's certainly a possibility in the long run. It's difficult juggling multiple competing priorities.

Absolutely. The LibDems will come back...

Because they forgot their coat on the way out?

Gallowgate said:

Fenman said:

Pulpstar said:

DavidL said:

SandyRentool said:

Hooray! The age threshold has been dropped to 50, so I've been able to book my vaccination appointments.

First shot on Monday then an 11 week gap.

It has given me a tingle inside.

59 and still waiting for Scotland's NHS to send me an appointment. Nothing as customer friendly as a booking service up here.

The good news is that MrsL got out of hospital last night and should be fit for hers on Thursday. She was the only person in her bay wearing a mask. She even slept in it. There was no ventilation. It was also a mixed bay which I thought had been stopped. At least one of the men was suffering early dementia and wandered about unimpeded. On this experience it is not too hard to see why 2/3rds of all Scottish infections have taken place in hospital. I am so glad I was able to get her home.

Simply not good enough. Hopefully you and Mrs L will be fit and antibody producing in a few weeks.

My biggest concern coming out of the Pandemic is that it has become impossible to criticise the NHS. It's inefficient and ineffective, often poorly run and seemingly immune to questioning. The death rate from Covid is a concern when we compare the NHS to other large countries in Europe. By the way, what have GPs been doing for the last year? So many questions need to be asked but we have turned the NHS into a sacred cow.

GPs are private so we can criticise them all we want without offending the religion.

Down with GPs!

GPs are like medieval "clerics".

Clerics often weren't ensured monks in a robe - they would often dress and behave like the rest of the population.

Just with legal immunity (in effect).

GPs have access to Benefit Of The NHS.....

https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1372111666180161542

Dura_Ace said:

OT... I was trying to parse Johnson's '24 frigates by 2030' comment in the HoC but couldn't make the numbers add up.

From 2023 to 2030 the RN will retire one T23 per year leaving five remaining in 2030. If absolutely nothing goes wrong with with both the T26 and T31 programs and they run 100% to schedule then they will add two ships per year from 2027 to 2030 for a a total of eight.

So the absolute maximum number of frigates the RN could have in 2030 is thirteen, ie the same as today.

Then I realised that I was completely wasting my time as this was just another straightforward Johnson lie.

You’ll know when they become known as Boris Boats* that there won’t be the slightest chance of them coming to pass.

*yep, a horrible solecism I know but when did that ever stop the BJ pr juggernaut.

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1372112045559193603?s=19

Big_G_NorthWales said:

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1372112045559193603?s=19

What?

MaxPB said:

SandyRentool said:

Hooray! The age threshold has been dropped to 50, so I've been able to book my vaccination appointments.

First shot on Monday then an 11 week gap.

It has given me a tingle inside.

That means under 50s will commence in around 10-14 days. I really am beginning to get the feeling that the government wants everyone done well before the end of May and all second doses done in time for the summer.

PHE doesn’t break down the age buckets below I think 65. Is there a way of figuring out how many under 50s have already been jabbed? It feels like every third person I speak to now below 50 has either already had the first dose or been booked for one.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1372112045559193603

How quickly will this be posted I wonder?

That's got to be an outlier

..

@Casino_Royale

Just wanted to acknowledge our bet.

I don't think any further rules are required other than some cut off (void obviously not a loser) if the by-election is not held. I suggest 1 August 2021.

Other than that I don't contemplate any scenario that would require clarification.

Taz said:

SouthamObserver said:

eek said:

SouthamObserver said:

RochdalePioneers said:

I have already set out why I believe the Tories can take the seat. That they have already taken the council thanks to the collapse of Labour shows the direction of travel in the town. Yes I know that the council is a Tory / Independents coalition. Thats what happens with "independents" on Teesside - they break apart the former Labour vote and back the Tories because eugh Labour.

Candidate selection will be crucial. If the Tories can find a local pick that would help. Labour aren't - its either a Paul Williams fix or la Pidcock gets onto the shortlist thanks to hard left elements on the NEC. Either way neither is local. And local is very much an issue in Hartlepool looking at the warring factions of Hartlepool Independent councillors they now have.

I do wonder if a Paul Williams parachuting might play to Labour's favour though. OK so it loses them any chance of winning the PCC, but he is a well respected doctor. Play the health card - "I've been battling to save people from Covid and the Tories are scared of a public enquiry because they know what it will find". Might work. The entire campaign will be posted leaflets written elsewhere because have I mentioned that Hartlepool CLP is bonkers?

Ultimately it comes down to this. Its Super Thursday so turnout will be high. Most people will vote Tory for Mayor. Many of them will vote for their local flavour of anti-Labour for council. If the Labour candidate for MP is Paul Williams they will vote for the Tory for PCC. To then "loyally" vote Labour for MP is a stretch - once people start voting against, they keep voting against. And it is "AGAINST" Labour and not "FOR" any other candidate. Labour has become toxic on Teesside in a way that I can scarcely believe.

That all makes sense - except for one thing: turnout is going to be very low, even lower than it would usually be for local council elections. Covid will see to that.

In which case even less chance of Labour winning. Those going out to vote will be voting for their none Labour councilor and a Tory mayor.

I agree - and they will tend to be older voters, too, which will only reinforce Labour's difficulties. It's going to be a very difficult night for Starmer. As ever, the Midlands will be where it is worse.

Does the labour candidate for Mayor really stand little chance ?

She seems quite hopeless but there is talk that local party bigwigs openly mock her and that makes me feel a little sorry for her.

I saw something she did on Twitter with Jet from Gladiators (it wasn’t a millennium barn dance in Yeovil aerodrome) which just seemed bizarre.

Jessie Joe Jacobs hasn't a prayer. She is largely shunned by local activists who have seen right through her - she has positioned herself as both the Progress candidate and the Momentum candidate. The latter saw her railroaded through selection with shenanigans from Unite to remove all opposition to her.

Now that she is the candidate her campaign is Look at Me! I am Jessie Joe Jacobs! You should vote for me because I am a Woman! Have seen a now pulped newspaper she was to put out where the front page was a huge photo of her with the headline "Will this be Britain's First Female Metro Mayor?" complete with sodding question mark on the end. The rest of it was endless photos of JJJJJ in almost identical poses in front of various landmarks and buildings complete with a wall of text.

In comparison, Tory Ben Houchen ran on two items - protect the Parmo, and save the Airport. He proceeded to nationalise Teesside Airport and has announced various exciting new flights most of which haven't yet flown and none of which will last as there is no business case for flights from Teesside which is why the airport failed in the first place.

He has also stuck himself into all kinds of projects that his role doesn't have a remit for - an almost constant stream of good news stories for jobs and industry. For example his party shut down Redcar Steelworks, he is now leading a project to clear the site and put high tech industry in there with half the jobs.

He will absolutely walk the election as he is one of very few politicians who overdelivers. His only pity is that Osborne imagined that the Tees Valley Mayor was the non-job it is and gave it a non-salary. His Spad gets £20k more than he does.

Gallowgate said:

@TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/FreeNorthNow/status/1372100445582266376?s=20

These guys cannot be a serious party.

They must be Americans or the BBC.

"precarious" is an adjective. Tut.

My views on Hartlepool:

1. I have absolutely no idea who will win and nor, at this stage, does anybody else. I won't be betting. It may become clearer once all candidates are declared, but probably not.

2. The ramifications, whether Labour holds or Tories gain, will be short-term and not worth getting too excited about. There's too much else going on at the moment for a by-election loss/gain to have longer-term traction. There will be no challenge to Starmer if Labour loses.

RochdalePioneers said:

Taz said:

SouthamObserver said:

eek said:

SouthamObserver said:

RochdalePioneers said:

I have already set out why I believe the Tories can take the seat. That they have already taken the council thanks to the collapse of Labour shows the direction of travel in the town. Yes I know that the council is a Tory / Independents coalition. Thats what happens with "independents" on Teesside - they break apart the former Labour vote and back the Tories because eugh Labour.

Candidate selection will be crucial. If the Tories can find a local pick that would help. Labour aren't - its either a Paul Williams fix or la Pidcock gets onto the shortlist thanks to hard left elements on the NEC. Either way neither is local. And local is very much an issue in Hartlepool looking at the warring factions of Hartlepool Independent councillors they now have.

I do wonder if a Paul Williams parachuting might play to Labour's favour though. OK so it loses them any chance of winning the PCC, but he is a well respected doctor. Play the health card - "I've been battling to save people from Covid and the Tories are scared of a public enquiry because they know what it will find". Might work. The entire campaign will be posted leaflets written elsewhere because have I mentioned that Hartlepool CLP is bonkers?

Ultimately it comes down to this. Its Super Thursday so turnout will be high. Most people will vote Tory for Mayor. Many of them will vote for their local flavour of anti-Labour for council. If the Labour candidate for MP is Paul Williams they will vote for the Tory for PCC. To then "loyally" vote Labour for MP is a stretch - once people start voting against, they keep voting against. And it is "AGAINST" Labour and not "FOR" any other candidate. Labour has become toxic on Teesside in a way that I can scarcely believe.

That all makes sense - except for one thing: turnout is going to be very low, even lower than it would usually be for local council elections. Covid will see to that.

In which case even less chance of Labour winning. Those going out to vote will be voting for their none Labour councilor and a Tory mayor.

I agree - and they will tend to be older voters, too, which will only reinforce Labour's difficulties. It's going to be a very difficult night for Starmer. As ever, the Midlands will be where it is worse.

Does the labour candidate for Mayor really stand little chance ?

She seems quite hopeless but there is talk that local party bigwigs openly mock her and that makes me feel a little sorry for her.

I saw something she did on Twitter with Jet from Gladiators (it wasn’t a millennium barn dance in Yeovil aerodrome) which just seemed bizarre.

Jessie Joe Jacobs hasn't a prayer. She is largely shunned by local activists who have seen right through her - she has positioned herself as both the Progress candidate and the Momentum candidate. The latter saw her railroaded through selection with shenanigans from Unite to remove all opposition to her.

Now that she is the candidate her campaign is Look at Me! I am Jessie Joe Jacobs! You should vote for me because I am a Woman! Have seen a now pulped newspaper she was to put out where the front page was a huge photo of her with the headline "Will this be Britain's First Female Metro Mayor?" complete with sodding question mark on the end. The rest of it was endless photos of JJJJJ in almost identical poses in front of various landmarks and buildings complete with a wall of text.

In comparison, Tory Ben Houchen ran on two items - protect the Parmo, and save the Airport. He proceeded to nationalise Teesside Airport and has announced various exciting new flights most of which haven't yet flown and none of which will last as there is no business case for flights from Teesside which is why the airport failed in the first place.

He has also stuck himself into all kinds of projects that his role doesn't have a remit for - an almost constant stream of good news stories for jobs and industry. For example his party shut down Redcar Steelworks, he is now leading a project to clear the site and put high tech industry in there with half the jobs.

He will absolutely walk the election as he is one of very few politicians who overdelivers. His only pity is that Osborne imagined that the Tees Valley Mayor was the non-job it is and gave it a non-salary. His Spad gets £20k more than he does.

Sounds like you have a lot of respect for Houchen, especially for a Tory?

I wonder whether he'll be a future contender for Parliament and the Cabinet then? He's only 34.

Off topic but.. anyone in Scotland have a view about the David Davis intervention last night and the potential impact?

I must admit, I’m a tad lost..

Northern_Al said:

My views on Hartlepool:

1. I have absolutely no idea who will win and nor, at this stage, does anybody else. I won't be betting. It may become clearer once all candidates are declared, but probably not.

2. The ramifications, whether Labour holds or Tories gain, will be short-term and not worth getting too excited about. There's too much else going on at the moment for a by-election loss/gain to have longer-term traction. There will be no challenge to Starmer if Labour loses.

Agreed. There is a tendency on PB and by political obsessives to overstate the importance of this stuff. I don't think it really makes a huge difference, Labour will keep Starmer until the election and then we'll see how that goes.

MaxPB said:

Northern_Al said:

My views on Hartlepool:

1. I have absolutely no idea who will win and nor, at this stage, does anybody else. I won't be betting. It may become clearer once all candidates are declared, but probably not.

2. The ramifications, whether Labour holds or Tories gain, will be short-term and not worth getting too excited about. There's too much else going on at the moment for a by-election loss/gain to have longer-term traction. There will be no challenge to Starmer if Labour loses.

Agreed. There is a tendency on PB and by political obsessives to overstate the importance of this stuff. I don't think it really makes a huge difference, Labour will keep Starmer until the election and then we'll see how that goes.

I think they will, but if Starmer loses this it will undermine his leadership and lead to more scepticism and a divided party.

Having an undermined, weak leader can be a worse fate than losing your leader.

Gallowgate said:

@TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/FreeNorthNow/status/1372100445582266376?s=20

These guys cannot be a serious party.

They are basically Corbyn Labour while wanting to return to the old Kingdom of Northumbria

@Quincel Good post. Completely agree.

Mr. Root, rather sad. She was only 51.

Cheltenham day 1 was pretty miserable for me. 1 winner and a big net loss. Boo

Anyone with any tips for day 2?

Salmond/Sturgeon

This still hasn't gone away....

"A former UK cabinet minister says senior SNP figures should be investigated over possible “collusion, perjury and criminal conspiracy” in relation to the handling of complaints against Alex Salmond.

"David Davis told the Commons he had evidence supplied by a whistleblower that suggested there had been “interference” from the highest levels of the party in the process.

"And he said it raised questions about Nicola Sturgeon’s testimony before the Salmond inquiry as to when she became aware of complaints against the former first minister.

"Using the protection of parliamentary privilege, the MP read from text messages, which he said showed a “concerted effort” by SNP staffers to drum up complaints."

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/2977369/david-davis-says-text-messages-show-collusion-perjury-and-criminal-conspiracy-in-alex-salmond-saga/

Gallowgate said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Gallowgate said:

squareroot2 said:

Keir Starmer has the charisma of a piece of wood.

Rich mahogany can be quite charming.

He'd be MDF at best.

What, free from natural defects with a smooth sanded surface and a precision finish?

Sounds ideal.

Yes sounds like Starmer, completely free from any personality whatsoever.