And so to Sunak’s budget starting with an announcement that parts of the Treasury are moving to Darl
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squareroot2 said:
So, how did the sainted Nicola get on? Any tears?
She's still boring for Scotland as I type.squareroot2 said:So, how did the sainted Nicola get on? Any tears?
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So my taxes are going up via fiscal drag to pay doleies more, as is corporation tax.
Corbyn really did win the argument in the 2019 election.2 -
The investment scheme sounds positive and interesting and may counter the effects of the Corp Tax scheme.
Complicated though, devil will be in the details no doubt. If done right that's a great move.0 -
Off thread, and apologies for puncturing the budget gloom, but just to report that my wife (who is 45) has just been invited for a jab on Saturday. She is asthmatic, which may be bringing her forward, but still. We're into the 40-somethings now in Greater Manchester.4
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When does this superdeduction come in ?0
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Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.0 -
She’s still waffling. She looks defensive, sometimes uncomfortable, but it’s not a knockoutsquareroot2 said:So, how did the sainted Nicola get on? Any tears?
There are many snide mentions of Salmond. He will want further revenge0 -
And that attitude is why I was never comfortable with the posh, entitled, heartless, Cameron Conservative party.TheScreamingEagles said:So my taxes are going up via fiscal drag to pay doleies more, as is corporation tax.
Corbyn really did win the argument in the 2019 election.
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The Tories have no ideas other than the essentially trivial War on Woke. Once Leave and Pandemic are in the rear view mirror they will struggle.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Boris won in 2019 by running on Corbyn's platform from 2017.FrancisUrquhart said:I didn't know we had elected John McDonnell as CoE....
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To me this an impressive budget and stymies Starmer's response1
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That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.0 -
What you'd expect from a lightweight out of his depth though.dixiedean said:
Not exactly a bonfire of red tape is it?FrancisUrquhart said:This is all sounds like a set of Gordon Brown schemes. Extra tax bands, complex schemes for deductions, huge fiscal drag....
He's clearly been nobbled by a bunch of vocal interest groups.0 -
Shit canning Solvency II?0
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That was one of the predictions. As long as he can act as though the hole might one day be filled, the spendathon can continue even in non Covid stuff.IanB2 said:This feels like a budget that may unravel. He’s painting a picture of a big hole but merely pretending he has a plan to seriously address it, whilst meanwhile continuing to spend during 2021 like there’s no tomorrow.
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Sunak sounds so much like Ed Miliband. It's really weird.
It's in what he says as well as his accent.
"Not just a general desire, but a real commitment." (A specific desire? Not actions?)0 -
Especially with the growth forecasts. No expert, but summat doesn't add up here.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.1 -
Do tell us Labour’s “ideas”kinabalu said:
The Tories have no ideas other than the essentially trivial War on Woke. Once Leave and Pandemic are in the rear view mirror they will struggle.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Boris won in 2019 by running on Corbyn's platform from 2017.FrancisUrquhart said:I didn't know we had elected John McDonnell as CoE....
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Making it easier to migrate for scientists, the high skilled and entrepreneurs. 👍1
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Yes, and I am not sure everyone understands it is soldiers' private cars that are the problem, not official US Army jeeps. But probably something could be sorted out along the lines of block free imports and supply UK-subsidised right-hand drive cars.Dura_Ace said:
This will never happen as free shipping of private cars is cherished perk associated with a US forces PCS order. They certainly aren't going to stop it just because the British government asks them to.DecrepiterJohnL said:Harry Dunn -- tragic but HMG would do better to take concrete measures like stopping US personnel importing left-hand-drive cars.
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Lol. Treasury heading north. Darlington.0
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They have such an advantage in seats it might be enough even so. And 14 years in power minimum, as they'll drag out to full term if they look like losing, will have been plenty.kinabalu said:
The Tories have no ideas other than the essentially trivial War on Woke. Once Leave and Pandemic are in the rear view mirror they will struggle.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Boris won in 2019 by running on Corbyn's platform from 2017.FrancisUrquhart said:I didn't know we had elected John McDonnell as CoE....
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How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.1 -
Did he at least not say it was an aspiration? That's always code for 'wont happen'.LostPassword said:Sunak sounds so much like Ed Miliband. It's really weird.
It's in what he says as well as his accent.
"Not just a general desire, but a real commitment." (A specific desire? Not actions?)0 -
OK, the problem was there before, but this Budget has made it concrete...
The political and economic cycles are going to be horribly out of synch for the next election.
Classic government is front-load the pain in years 1 and 2, so that you get the gains (and some bonus sweeties if you've eaten all your cabbage) in Year 4. The Nike swoosh theory of Brexit just about fitted in that- for believers anyway.
Covid has prevented that, rightly so. But that means that the pain kicks in just when the government would normally be thinking about going to the country.
Ouch.2 -
Could be a real bonanza for business investment over the next two years with the new rules. It really needs to be made permanent if that 25% rate is real.1
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Investment super deduction is only for next 2 years - when CT rate still low (19%? - he didn't say).
Then it stops precisely when CT rate goes to 25%.
So no relief at 25%!0 -
I'm so old I remember when Boris Johnson said increasing corporation tax was extreme socialism.Time_to_Leave said:
And that attitude is why I was never comfortable with the posh, entitled, heartless, Cameron Conservative party.TheScreamingEagles said:So my taxes are going up via fiscal drag to pay doleies more, as is corporation tax.
Corbyn really did win the argument in the 2019 election.1 -
Perfect timing for the investment rules, its really needed right now.MaxPB said:Could be a real bonanza for business investment over the next two years with the new rules. It really needs to be made permanent if that 25% rate is real.
Hopefully Corp Tax can be reduced again or the rise cancelled in the future. Its the only part of the Budget I find atrocious.0 -
Don’t know about the economics, but the politics seems smart.Big_G_NorthWales said:To me this an impressive budget and stymies Starmer's response
Just announced 8 English Freeports....1 -
Yes, it's badly timed. Hopefully the success of the scheme will force the government to extend it or make it permanent.MikeL said:Investment super deduction is only for next 2 years - when CT rate still low (19%? - he didn't say).
Then it stops precisely when CT rate goes to 25%.
So no relief at 25%!0 -
I can't imagine Javid ever having signed off a budget like this.0
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Freeport announced for Teesside. Combine that with the Treasury move to Darlo and that's Labour done and dusted in the area.2
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I remember that the 2012 and 2007 budgets were well received on the day.0
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Discounted software Is only for those who employ between 5 and 249. Drat!0
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Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.1 -
Oh ok. Impact of that will be marginal on non-life carriers, and likely a fairly limited change to capital requirements. Good to know I still have a career!MaxPB said:0 -
There must surely be a limit to the investment super deduction?
And definition of what qualifies?0 -
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I didn’t say I was a fan of the PM either.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm so old I remember when Boris Johnson said increasing corporation tax was extreme socialism.Time_to_Leave said:
And that attitude is why I was never comfortable with the posh, entitled, heartless, Cameron Conservative party.TheScreamingEagles said:So my taxes are going up via fiscal drag to pay doleies more, as is corporation tax.
Corbyn really did win the argument in the 2019 election.
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Tbh, I don't think this will be received well. That headline CT rate is awful and will grab headlines across the world.TheScreamingEagles said:I remember that the 2012 and 2007 budgets were well received on the day.
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Got to hand it to Rishi - he's bloody good at pulling political rabbits out of his hat.0
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Selling everything on SPIN would have netted a profit.0
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It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.0 -
The country is full of old, ill and poor people. They need to be looked after in a vaguely responsible way, which means rich people and their assets have to be soaked. You can argue, as I do, that the Government is being pushed by electoral imperatives towards going about some of this in the wrong way, but the basic principle holds.TheScreamingEagles said:So my taxes are going up via fiscal drag to pay doleies more, as is corporation tax.
Corbyn really did win the argument in the 2019 election.
If we don't attempt any form of redistribution to support the relatively weak then more and more people are just going to become poor, until we either have to get rid of democracy or accept the election of a Corbyn figure.4 -
That investment allowance looks absolutely amazing on paper. It needs to be made permanent at 100%.RochdalePioneers said:Got to hand it to Rishi - he's bloody good at pulling political rabbits out of his hat.
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The business world will hate it. Politically though, having "big business" (yes, I know) pay for the pandemic should play well.MaxPB said:
Tbh, I don't think this will be received well. That headline CT rate is awful and will grab headlines across the world.TheScreamingEagles said:I remember that the 2012 and 2007 budgets were well received on the day.
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He's going after the large corporate cash pots - invest it for growth or we'll tax it. Makes a lot of sense.Philip_Thompson said:
Perfect timing for the investment rules, its really needed right now.MaxPB said:Could be a real bonanza for business investment over the next two years with the new rules. It really needs to be made permanent if that 25% rate is real.
Hopefully Corp Tax can be reduced again or the rise cancelled in the future. Its the only part of the Budget I find atrocious.0 -
Two Osborne shit sandwiches witn a side order of crapTheScreamingEagles said:I remember that the 2012 and 2007 budgets were well received on the day.
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Starmers response shoukd be fun
Real alternative vision or dead man walking stuff?0 -
I think it'll be an ok reception. Other countries may well be raising their corporation tax rates too.MaxPB said:
Tbh, I don't think this will be received well. That headline CT rate is awful and will grab headlines across the world.TheScreamingEagles said:I remember that the 2012 and 2007 budgets were well received on the day.
(Don't like CT and don't like the mortgage guarantee)0 -
The US personnel don't want to drive subsidised RHD Fiestas, they want their own cars. The US have enough trouble filling overseas postings as, like the British forces, it's seen as a career killer and is very disruptive for families. They aren't going to do anything that makes it harder.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes, and I am not sure everyone understands it is soldiers' private cars that are the problem, not official US Army jeeps. But probably something could be sorted out along the lines of block free imports and supply UK-subsidised right-hand drive cars.Dura_Ace said:
This will never happen as free shipping of private cars is cherished perk associated with a US forces PCS order. They certainly aren't going to stop it just because the British government asks them to.DecrepiterJohnL said:Harry Dunn -- tragic but HMG would do better to take concrete measures like stopping US personnel importing left-hand-drive cars.
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Oh, Starmer's opened with a joke. Verdict: crap.0
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No mention at all of the state pension. Triple lock presumably being preserved in perpetuity?0
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Really? I mean really?Alanbrooke said:
Two Osborne shit sandwiches witn a side order of crapTheScreamingEagles said:I remember that the 2012 and 2007 budgets were well received on the day.
I remember on here PBers said the 2012 budget would cost the Tories the 2015 election0 -
No, Brown's deficit had nothing to do with the UK's level of exposure to the GFC. We borrowed the money to keep the economy going throughout at very low interest rates.Philip_Thompson said:
It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.
What mattered was his astonishingly incomptent approach to financial regulation.0 -
Right, Keir's on - back to the washing up!0
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How did Liverpool sneak in there, with all its Labour seats? Shome mishtake....CarlottaVance said:Team Rishi on the job:
https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1367103042143846400?s=200 -
The thing is - if you don't raise CT how else are you going to raise really substantial revenue?
Everything else is too damaging politically.3 -
Was that the pasty tax?TheScreamingEagles said:
Really? I mean really?Alanbrooke said:
Two Osborne shit sandwiches witn a side order of crapTheScreamingEagles said:I remember that the 2012 and 2007 budgets were well received on the day.
I remember on here PBers said the 2012 budget would cost the Tories the 2015 election0 -
So CT and fiscal drag were the only major tax increases when faced with the biggest fiscal hole in history? Larger businesses will howl, but that's quite smart politics. No personal tax rises, no capital gains raid, no new wealth taxes or other shit like that.1
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It goes hand in hand with the rise in Corporation Tax. Big companies have been hoarding cash. This incentivises them to invest it. A Good Thing.MaxPB said:
That investment allowance looks absolutely amazing on paper. It needs to be made permanent at 100%.RochdalePioneers said:Got to hand it to Rishi - he's bloody good at pulling political rabbits out of his hat.
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Absence of Plan B from the critics.MikeL said:The thing is - if you don't raise CT how else are you going to raise really substantial revenue?
Everything else is too damaging politically.1 -
This is just embarrassing from Starmerlondonpubman said:Right, Keir's on - back to the washing up!
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you were meant to point out 2007 was Brown so I could say there was no difference between Brown and OsborneTheScreamingEagles said:
Really? I mean really?Alanbrooke said:
Two Osborne shit sandwiches witn a side order of crapTheScreamingEagles said:I remember that the 2012 and 2007 budgets were well received on the day.
I remember on here PBers said the 2012 budget would cost the Tories the 2015 election
spoilsport0 -
I think you misunderstood my point. What I was saying is that Brown's deficit going into the recession being very high meant that coming out of it we were ruined.Fishing said:
No, Brown's deficit had nothing to do with the UK's level of exposure to the GFC. We borrowed the money to keep the economy going throughout at very low interest rates.Philip_Thompson said:
It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.
What mattered was his astonishingly incomptent approach to financial regulation.
Had the deficit been under control going into the recession then when we came out of it we'd have had a deficit but not too bad a one.0 -
Osborne flat-lining the recovery he inherited from Labour did not help.Philip_Thompson said:
It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.1 -
Just to confirm this 130% "super deduction" - with CT at 19% you are only saving 1.3 * 19 = 24.7.
ie Invest 100, True cost is 75.3.0 -
SKS offers
nothing so far0 -
Larger businesses are the backbone of the economy. Pushing them towards the exit door is stupid. Other countries will take note and lower their own tax rates to feast on the carcass of the UK economy.BluestBlue said:So CT and fiscal drag were the only major tax increases when faced with the biggest fiscal hole in history? Larger businesses will howl, but that's quite smart politics. No personal tax rises, no capital gains raid, no wealth taxes or other shit like that.
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For the last decade and a bit my taxes have gone up a lot, I used to pay 40% then it went to 50% now it is 45%, rich people have been soaked for the last the decade and then some, I mean I don't mind paying those taxes, I'm at heart a One Nation Tory, but I'm tired of the narrative the rich don't pay their taxes.Black_Rook said:
The country is full of old, ill and poor people. They need to be looked after in a vaguely responsible way, which means rich people and their assets have to be soaked. You can argue, as I do, that the Government is being pushed by electoral imperatives towards going about some of this in the wrong way, but the basic principle holds.TheScreamingEagles said:So my taxes are going up via fiscal drag to pay doleies more, as is corporation tax.
Corbyn really did win the argument in the 2019 election.
If we don't attempt any form of redistribution to support the relatively weak then more and more people are just going to become poor, until we either have to get rid of democracy or accept the election of a Corbyn figure.2 -
If only Labour hadnt fked the economy in the first place then we wouldnt have needed a recoveryDecrepiterJohnL said:
Osborne flat-lining the recovery he inherited from Labour did not help.Philip_Thompson said:
It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.0 -
Cut useless spending instead. Give Scotland and Northern Ireland full fiscal autonomy; end foreign aid for now and scrap farming subsidies. Would I think save about £40bn/year.MarqueeMark said:
Absence of Plan B from the critics.MikeL said:The thing is - if you don't raise CT how else are you going to raise really substantial revenue?
Everything else is too damaging politically.1 -
That did not happen. The UK grew faster 2010-2019 than the Eurozone or any other major European economy.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Osborne flat-lining the recovery he inherited from Labour did not help.Philip_Thompson said:
It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.0 -
16,000 cases in Czechia, a tiny country. Poland surging. Russia 452 deaths
Eastern Europe is having a bad 3rd wave1 -
Yes. Don't want to pay 25%? Invest any surplus in the business instead. Not a terrible idea.RochdalePioneers said:
It goes hand in hand with the rise in Corporation Tax. Big companies have been hoarding cash. This incentivises them to invest it. A Good Thing.MaxPB said:
That investment allowance looks absolutely amazing on paper. It needs to be made permanent at 100%.RochdalePioneers said:Got to hand it to Rishi - he's bloody good at pulling political rabbits out of his hat.
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Just to think, 9 years ago we were all arguing about taxes on Cornish Pasties.1
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You need to move on and end your Osborne obsession, he hasn't been Chancellor for nearly five years and and hasn't been an MP for nearly four years.Alanbrooke said:
you were meant to point out 2007 was Brown so I could say there was no difference between Brown and OsborneTheScreamingEagles said:
Really? I mean really?Alanbrooke said:
Two Osborne shit sandwiches witn a side order of crapTheScreamingEagles said:I remember that the 2012 and 2007 budgets were well received on the day.
I remember on here PBers said the 2012 budget would cost the Tories the 2015 election
spoilsport
You sound like those lefties who hark on about Thatcher, decades after she left office.1 -
How were we ruined? We have continued to be able to finance our deficits and debt ever since.Philip_Thompson said:
I think you misunderstood my point. What I was saying is that Brown's deficit going into the recession being very high meant that coming out of it we were ruined.Fishing said:
No, Brown's deficit had nothing to do with the UK's level of exposure to the GFC. We borrowed the money to keep the economy going throughout at very low interest rates.Philip_Thompson said:
It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.
What mattered was his astonishingly incomptent approach to financial regulation.
Had the deficit been under control going into the recession then when we came out of it we'd have had a deficit but not too bad a one.0 -
But the super deduction ends when that rate starts, it should be lowered to 100% and made permanent. We've needed this kind of approach to business investment for decades.Flatlander said:
Yes. Don't want to pay 25%? Invest any surplus in the business instead. Not a terrible idea.RochdalePioneers said:
It goes hand in hand with the rise in Corporation Tax. Big companies have been hoarding cash. This incentivises them to invest it. A Good Thing.MaxPB said:
That investment allowance looks absolutely amazing on paper. It needs to be made permanent at 100%.RochdalePioneers said:Got to hand it to Rishi - he's bloody good at pulling political rabbits out of his hat.
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Overall I'd give the budget 7/10.
Excluding CT it seems like a good Budget, but the CT rise is a terrible idea.
Was worried there'd be more bad news than just CT so grateful that's the only bad thing. Glad there were no other tax rises.1 -
Not really got my head around all of the budget implications yet beyond the headline conclusion for me which is that I will be worse off.
But as a completely unimportant observation Sunak is by far the most articulate Chancellor we have had in a very long time. He is able to produce a speech that is genuinely inspiring and wipes the floor with the leaders of any of the other parties either now or in the recent past.
Doesn't mean I would vote for him but it is worth giving commendation where it is due.4 -
A Labour leader, A LABOUR LEADER!, criticising the government for wanting to OPEN a coal mine?3
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At least one Tory (Andrew Mitchell) does.MaxPB said:Fucking hell just shut the fuck about Yemen. No one gives a flying fuck about it.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-02/debates/62AC3E67-7B7A-4B94-898A-8D18B55A7A1C/YemenAidFunding0 -
Quite. It’s the super rich that don’t pay their taxes. And mega tech corporationsTheScreamingEagles said:
For the last decade and a bit my taxes have gone up a lot, I used to pay 40% then it went to 50% now it is 45%, rich people have been soaked for the last the decade and then some, I mean I don't mind paying those taxes, I'm at heart a One Nation Tory, but I'm tired of the narrative the rich don't pay their taxes.Black_Rook said:
The country is full of old, ill and poor people. They need to be looked after in a vaguely responsible way, which means rich people and their assets have to be soaked. You can argue, as I do, that the Government is being pushed by electoral imperatives towards going about some of this in the wrong way, but the basic principle holds.TheScreamingEagles said:So my taxes are going up via fiscal drag to pay doleies more, as is corporation tax.
Corbyn really did win the argument in the 2019 election.
If we don't attempt any form of redistribution to support the relatively weak then more and more people are just going to become poor, until we either have to get rid of democracy or accept the election of a Corbyn figure.3 -
Starmer is making Corbyn look good1
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As did the UK's population...Philip_Thompson said:
That did not happen. The UK grew faster 2010-2019 than the Eurozone or any other major European economy.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Osborne flat-lining the recovery he inherited from Labour did not help.Philip_Thompson said:
It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.0 -
The photo of the party on the bridge in Prague to welcome the eradication of covid will be iconic for all the wrong reasons.Leon said:16,000 cases in Czechia, a tiny country. Poland surging. Russia 452 deaths
Eastern Europe is having a bad 3rd wave0 -
Yes, I'm on them at 1.8 for largest party next GE. I'd be delighted to lose that but I'm not expecting to.kle4 said:
They have such an advantage in seats it might be enough even so. And 14 years in power minimum, as they'll drag out to full term if they look like losing, will have been plenty.kinabalu said:
The Tories have no ideas other than the essentially trivial War on Woke. Once Leave and Pandemic are in the rear view mirror they will struggle.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Boris won in 2019 by running on Corbyn's platform from 2017.FrancisUrquhart said:I didn't know we had elected John McDonnell as CoE....
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Key fact to find out - how much extra CT is actually expected to be raised?
Need to see Budget book!0 -
Two words too longbigjohnowls said:SKS offers
nothing so far2 -
Only because we had a decade of "austerity". That was only needed because of Brown's disgraceful deficit. Won't be needed going forwards because we went into this recession in better shape and the deficit will be closed without austerity.Fishing said:
How were we ruined? We have continued to be able to finance our deficits and debt ever since.Philip_Thompson said:
I think you misunderstood my point. What I was saying is that Brown's deficit going into the recession being very high meant that coming out of it we were ruined.Fishing said:
No, Brown's deficit had nothing to do with the UK's level of exposure to the GFC. We borrowed the money to keep the economy going throughout at very low interest rates.Philip_Thompson said:
It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.
What mattered was his astonishingly incomptent approach to financial regulation.
Had the deficit been under control going into the recession then when we came out of it we'd have had a deficit but not too bad a one.0 -
GDP per capita grew faster in the UK than the Eurozone so try again.eek said:
As did the UK's population...Philip_Thompson said:
That did not happen. The UK grew faster 2010-2019 than the Eurozone or any other major European economy.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Osborne flat-lining the recovery he inherited from Labour did not help.Philip_Thompson said:
It didn't make a difference to the GFC, it made a difference to how the UK came out of the GFC. That's the difference, can't you understand that?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Give it a rest. Even if you are right that fiscal policy should have been tighter in 2006/7, it made no difference to the global financial crisis. Whatever the implications for a future that did not happen, it had no effect on the crisis that did happen.Philip_Thompson said:
How is that weak?IanB2 said:
That’s precisely my point. This is a speech about serious disease offering very weak medicine.Philip_Thompson said:
Were you not listening?IanB2 said:Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.
He's forecast the deficit back under 3% before the next election.
I would have thought such a forecast was "brave". If the deficit is back under 3% before the next election then that is extraordinarily rapid so soon after the recession.
The deficit back under 3% within 3 years of the depression isn't weak its a comprehensive cure for the deficit. It wasn't possible 3 years after the GFC to get the deficit back under 3% again.
Which as I have said for the past year is made possible in no small part because we went into this recession in a much better place than Brown's recession.
Shocks happen they're a fact of life. Its how you go into them and how you come out of them that matters. The UK was horribly exposed to the GFC with Brown's deficit - and as a result came atrociously out of it.
Covid was a more severe, more awful shock, but the UK was better prepared for it so is coming out better.0 -
Most passion Ive seen from SKS so far.
Suggesting what the budget was missing but not neccesarily offering any solutions.0
This discussion has been closed.