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And so to Sunak’s budget starting with an announcement that parts of the Treasury are moving to Darl

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,509
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot deny that I am looking forward to seeing footage of Sturgeon facing difficulties, but I fear the level of excitement promised by people on here may not be met.

    The third session of the day (the one before this) - is the one to watch

    But you need to watch it all. The tv snippets won’t capture it
    Nothing could be as thrilling as your breathless commentary of it – why bother with the real thing?
    The morning session was largely boring. I almost skipped the rest. I am very glad i didn’t.

    Compulsive viewing
    I diagnose a severe case of lockdown locked in syndrome...
    Better than anything on the BBC.....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,527

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    I don't think this will pay for the government's handling of covid. I think it is going to fall short.

    I'm not sure there is a way of paying for what has been done and retaining living standards at anywhere near what they were.

    Either now, or in the future
    What do you think cannot ever rebound and why?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,923
    edited March 2021
    'Illegal' Covid jabs are being given out to private patients in Birmingham in exchange for cash, it is feared.

    Unnamed sources say there are rumours the vaccines are being offered after reports an Oxford councillor travelled to the city after getting the jab from a 'private care doctor'.

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/illegal-jabs-being-given-out-19957255

    What is weird about the Labour councillor getting this jab is she is 65, so could have easily just booked online and got one in a few days via NHS (if as she claimed her local area had a big waitlist). If you are willing to travel, as she did for her alleged illegal one, there isn't really any waiting for a 65 year old, it is just how willing you are to travel.

    Wonder if these illegal jabs are even legit, or just salty water?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586

    I think Labour need to find Jackie Baillie a safe seat and install her as leader

    She certainly impressed me today and would be a vast improvement on Starmer

    A safe seat for Labour in Scotland. You are a wag!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,650
    edited March 2021
    Balrog said:

    Budget: the CPI inflation assumption (that it stays at or below 2.0% until 2026) looks rocky to me. A 1% increase in RPI increases debt costs by £7bn, and 1% in gilts by £9 billion. Rather sensitive. This could budget could be out by £50-60bn by FY2025/26.

    The corp tax and income tax freezes yield £25bn a year by 2025, so that's big money. IHT also frozen for an extra 0.4bn yield. If it gets desperate he could up VAT to 22%, I guess to give an extra £10-12bn per year.

    Also, has he factored in a progressive degradation of fuel duty? I think he's just TBC'ed it in this. I'd have thought it'd be 10-15% below current levels by 2025, 25-35% by 2030 and 60-70% by 2040. That's probably a £3-4bn hole by 2026 alone.

    Carbon neutrality will have a serious fiscal cost, although cheaper than the environmental one of course.

    I think this is another area where he has to bite the bullet sooner rather than later. There is no longer a need to encourage drivers to take up electric cars - they are going to be forced to do so within 9 years anyway. So he should now look to move to payment per mile for driving with all cars being classed the same. Replace fuel duty and road tax with a completely new system based on how much you drive. If you are worried about the impact on rural areas then you can tinker with rates but basically it will be one system for all with perhaps some regional variation.
    If my clock is read once a year at MOT time, to reconcile my road tax bill for the next year, fine.

    But, I do not want to be satellite tracked and monitored for real-time road pricing.

    No way do I want any part of the Government knowing where I'm going, when or why, or for how long. Nor do I expect to have to explain myself to anyone: the prospects for abuse are legion.

    The fuzz would have dug all over it during this latest lockdown.
    The problem is that all polling on the matter has shown that road pricing is a Fuel Strike moment. No one trusts the government on this.

    This is one of the reasons that hydrogen was the promoted clean fuel solution - when the time was right, you would shift the fuel taxes to hydrogen.

    Problem is that electricity is everywhere.

    The resistance to rebalancing the anti-road structural plans in the light of ZEVs being universal is strong. But it is needed - and it is quite interesting to see some public transport plans in that light....
    You get billed for KWH in your home. The Government doesn't snoop to see what you're using it on, or when, except at a very macro level - and it's wholly commercial.

    The thing is Governments have different policy agendas, supreme power, aren't in competition with anyone, so you can't choose, are able to join lots of dots and are this perfectly corruptable: they could also use this to do you for speeding, as much as pricing per mile, and you could be blackmailed. Or petty personal vendettas could be pursued with it.

    I will be making my thoughts known on it to my MP.
    In theory smart meters could be used to work out what people use their electricity for. Most devices have a recognisable signature.

    They could even work out which TV channel you are watching.

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2007.00326
    I want to see an open-book top-to-toe regulatory review of all of this. All of it.

    Private. Public. How it works. Checks and balances. Accessibility. Destruction date. Everything.

    Far too many of us don't know or understand it, and that includes policymakers as well as consumers.
    While that is all theoretically possible with a hand crafted device snuck into someone's house, it's not reality.

    A typical house would have a gas meter, electric meter, home display and a communications hub. Often the hub combines with the electricity meter because it has power. Typically they will periodically take power usage readings say every 5 minutes. This gets saved up and sent out when requested typically via a mobile phone network link from the comms hub.

    To ensure security they use the same security model/technology as for banking, basically a pki based architecture. To ensure that meters can transfer when the supplier changes, there is an industry entity called the data collection company that controls all of the meters on behalf of the utility companies.

    So all a utility company will get is a series of meter readings which they use to work out the bill, possible using the usage profile with time of use tariffs.

    No-one can work out what TV channel you are watching from that, though they might work out when you used a kettle or when you were in. Anything else is paranoia.

    All of this is public information.
    I did say in theory.

    Even a meter reading every 5 minutes is quite revealing, though. It tells you when people come in, leave, go to bed, get up, eat, go on holiday, etc etc etc. Yes, Google probably already know most of this but you can choose not to use them.

    I don't imagine the energy companies are actually doing anything with this but you can bet that it won't be 100% secure. Will the courts be applying to see this data?

    I don't suggest a tin foil hat but what happens to our data needs to be clear. Very few companies are clear.

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot deny that I am looking forward to seeing footage of Sturgeon facing difficulties, but I fear the level of excitement promised by people on here may not be met.

    The third session of the day (the one before this) - is the one to watch

    But you need to watch it all. The tv snippets won’t capture it
    Nothing could be as thrilling as your breathless commentary of it – why bother with the real thing?
    The morning session was largely boring. I almost skipped the rest. I am very glad i didn’t.

    Compulsive viewing
    I diagnose a severe case of lockdown locked in syndrome...
    Better than anything on the BBC.....
    What a boring fart you are.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,999

    moonshine said:

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    By clicking his heels twice to make the whole thing go away.
    Well let's be honest. Punters are being sold the line that we must "pay back" everything borrowed for furlough and covid support loans. Which is a giant porkie pie. Because all that debt has instead been monetised by QE.

    It's all just political stage management to try and mark the Tories out as "fiscally responsible". When in reality they've jumped on the China model MMT harder than anyone.
    That's not true. This isn't "paying back" everything borrowed nor has anyone claimed it is.

    This is closing the deficit.

    People need to learn the difference between debt and deficit.
    We didn't learn it during the austerity years, we're not learning it now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,517
    "Dutch coronavirus test center hit by homemade bomb, police say
    Nobody was injured when the explosive device went off earlier on Wednesday."

    https://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-coronavirus-test-center-hit-with-a-bomb-say-police/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    I cannot deny that I am looking forward to seeing footage of Sturgeon facing difficulties, but I fear the level of excitement promised by people on here may not be met.

    The third session of the day (the one before this) - is the one to watch

    But you need to watch it all. The tv snippets won’t capture it
    Nothing could be as thrilling as your breathless commentary of it – why bother with the real thing?
    The morning session was largely boring. I almost skipped the rest. I am very glad i didn’t.

    Compulsive viewing
    I diagnose a severe case of lockdown locked in syndrome...
    Better than anything on the BBC.....
    Better than tonight's footy. Hamza needs to be shot for that 🙄
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    edited March 2021

    moonshine said:

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    By clicking his heels twice to make the whole thing go away.
    Well let's be honest. Punters are being sold the line that we must "pay back" everything borrowed for furlough and covid support loans. Which is a giant porkie pie. Because all that debt has instead been monetised by QE.

    It's all just political stage management to try and mark the Tories out as "fiscally responsible". When in reality they've jumped on the China model MMT harder than anyone.
    That's not true. This isn't "paying back" everything borrowed nor has anyone claimed it is.

    This is closing the deficit.

    People need to learn the difference between debt and deficit.
    I have a degree in Economics and a long career in finance begind me, I know the difference thank you. But they're not closing the 10% deficit by fiscal measures are they. They're relying on catchup growth to get it to a point where the deficit by the end of the parliement roughly matches nominal gdp growth.

    The PRESENTATION is such that we must "pay back the cost of covid", even though that's not what they're doing. The sleight of hand is because the Tory Party spent the last decade and a bit telling everyone that debt's needed to be repaid and they need to keep the fiscally dry wing at bay. They've got no intention whatsoever of closing the deficit, today's figures are before we get to the capital projects that "should be funded by low interest debt".

    All this stuff about a gilt market strike has been proven a nonsense since 2008 but if it's a fiction that makes you sleep at night then go for it.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    I don't think this will pay for the government's handling of covid. I think it is going to fall short.

    I'm not sure there is a way of paying for what has been done and retaining living standards at anywhere near what they were.

    Either now, or in the future
    What do you think cannot ever rebound and why?
    Its not that.

    By the government's own reckoning. the economy will not be back at full tilt until summer of next year. The interim time leaves the UK very exposed to rising rates on its still huge borrowing. Very exposed.

    BY the time we get up to full speed, the deficit could already be much larger than it is now, simply due to maintenance.

    Game over.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,072

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Is this a Nat beating up Sturgeon?

    Your membership of the Fraternity of PB Scotch Experts is hereby withdrawn.
    I always thought Scotch referred only to the alcoholic spirit, not to the Scottish people?
    Also pies, eggs, pancakes and mist.

    Actually it's just another spelling of the adjective Scottish, which happens to annoy Scots. (Which is a plural noun, but also another variant of Scottish)
    It also refers to Butterscotch, and Hopscotch.

    But those are arguable old words for scratch.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,862

    Roger said:

    I listened to Nicola and I found her credible intelligent and impressive. I've got a lot of time for the Sottish posters on this site from all sides. That's what's confusing. The English drama queens like Leon and Big G and the Guidoistas can be ignored. They don't have a vote and any interest is in hoping the Nats fail.

    It's obvious to even his most fervent supporters that Salmond is finished. Whatever happens to Nicola that's a given. My question to the Nats is how can crucifying Nicola do anything to advance the Nationalist cause? Is Sturgeon's defenestration really worth collapsing the cause?



    I have far more connections to Scotland and it's politics including a large family in the North East than your superficial nonsense.

    I am not English as Big_G_NorthWales indicates

    I cannot stand Salmond, nor Sturgeon and have opposed independence since I lived in Bewick on Tweed in the 1950's

    You have little or no knowledge of Scotland and neither our families deep love of the Country and Scots
    I too have family in Scotland. Everyone and his dog knew about Alex Salmond.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,923
    edited March 2021
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I listened to Nicola and I found her credible intelligent and impressive. I've got a lot of time for the Sottish posters on this site from all sides. That's what's confusing. The English drama queens like Leon and Big G and the Guidoistas can be ignored. They don't have a vote and any interest is in hoping the Nats fail.

    It's obvious to even his most fervent supporters that Salmond is finished. Whatever happens to Nicola that's a given. My question to the Nats is how can crucifying Nicola do anything to advance the Nationalist cause? Is Sturgeon's defenestration really worth collapsing the cause?



    I have far more connections to Scotland and it's politics including a large family in the North East than your superficial nonsense.

    I am not English as Big_G_NorthWales indicates

    I cannot stand Salmond, nor Sturgeon and have opposed independence since I lived in Bewick on Tweed in the 1950's

    You have little or no knowledge of Scotland and neither our families deep love of the Country and Scots
    I too have family in Scotland. Everyone and his dog knew about Alex Salmond.
    Except Nicola Sturgeon....
  • Foxy said:

    I think Labour need to find Jackie Baillie a safe seat and install her as leader

    She certainly impressed me today and would be a vast improvement on Starmer

    A safe seat for Labour in Scotland. You are a wag!
    I did not say in Scotland
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,072

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    I don't think this will pay for the government's handling of covid. I think it is going to fall short.

    I'm not sure there is a way of paying for what has been done and retaining living standards at anywhere near what they were.

    Either now, or in the future
    What do you think cannot ever rebound and why?
    I agree with that. They need 50bn a year for a decade, or equivalent.

    We will see more when Rishi-Dishi-Tavi gets to grips with serious reform.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586

    Foxy said:

    I think Labour need to find Jackie Baillie a safe seat and install her as leader

    She certainly impressed me today and would be a vast improvement on Starmer

    A safe seat for Labour in Scotland. You are a wag!
    I did not say in Scotland
    Ah, the chicken run? Not a great look for a leader.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,509
    Andy_JS said:

    "Dutch coronavirus test center hit by homemade bomb, police say
    Nobody was injured when the explosive device went off earlier on Wednesday."

    https://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-coronavirus-test-center-hit-with-a-bomb-say-police/

    "Police said in a statement that a “self-manufactured object” caused the explosion."

    Bombs that are making themselves is a worrying development in the fight against Covid....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    By clicking his heels twice to make the whole thing go away.
    Well let's be honest. Punters are being sold the line that we must "pay back" everything borrowed for furlough and covid support loans. Which is a giant porkie pie. Because all that debt has instead been monetised by QE.

    It's all just political stage management to try and mark the Tories out as "fiscally responsible". When in reality they've jumped on the China model MMT harder than anyone.
    That's not true. This isn't "paying back" everything borrowed nor has anyone claimed it is.

    This is closing the deficit.

    People need to learn the difference between debt and deficit.
    I have a degree in Economics and a long career in finance begind me, I know the difference thank you. But they're not closing the 10% deficit by fiscal measures are they. They're relying on catchup growth to get it to a point where the deficit by the end of the parliement roughly matches nominal gdp growth.

    The PRESENTATION is such that we must "pay back the cost of covid", even though that's not what they're doing. The sleight of hand is because the Tory Party spent the last decade and a bit telling everyone that debt's needed to be repaid and they need to keep the fiscally dry wing at bay. They've got no intention whatsoever of closing the deficit, today's figures are before we get to the capital projects that "should be funded by low interest debt".

    All this stuff about a gilt market strike has been proven a nonsense since 2008 but if it's a fiction that makes you sleep at night then go for it.
    I have the same and the headline deficit is being closed back to within 3% of GDP by 2014. That's quite remarkable really and is fiscally dry.

    We'll see if it actually happens, these forecasts have a tendency to go wrong, but to suggest nothing is being done is ridiculous.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,793
    TimT said:

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    By clicking his heels twice to make the whole thing go away.
    The famous Flash Gordon line - "And with one bound, he was free"
    That wasn't in the film :)
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I think Labour need to find Jackie Baillie a safe seat and install her as leader

    She certainly impressed me today and would be a vast improvement on Starmer

    A safe seat for Labour in Scotland. You are a wag!
    I did not say in Scotland
    Ah, the chicken run? Not a great look for a leader.
    But the point is that she made Starmer look hopeless
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited March 2021
    MattW said:
    The spokesman went on to read a brief statement from the First Minister:

    'This is a witch-hunt, the biggest witch-hunt in the history of our great nation of Scotland. This is a conspiracy by radical members of AntiNicola to persecute the best First Minister in the history of our country, who's only trying to Make Scotland Great Again for all the people. But we are looking at things very, very strongly, and our brave and loyal Attorney Advocate General will be taking the appropriate measures, that I can assure you. MSGA!'
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,381
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I listened to Nicola and I found her credible intelligent and impressive. I've got a lot of time for the Sottish posters on this site from all sides. That's what's confusing. The English drama queens like Leon and Big G and the Guidoistas can be ignored. They don't have a vote and any interest is in hoping the Nats fail.

    It's obvious to even his most fervent supporters that Salmond is finished. Whatever happens to Nicola that's a given. My question to the Nats is how can crucifying Nicola do anything to advance the Nationalist cause? Is Sturgeon's defenestration really worth collapsing the cause?



    I have far more connections to Scotland and it's politics including a large family in the North East than your superficial nonsense.

    I am not English as Big_G_NorthWales indicates

    I cannot stand Salmond, nor Sturgeon and have opposed independence since I lived in Bewick on Tweed in the 1950's

    You have little or no knowledge of Scotland and neither our families deep love of the Country and Scots
    I too have family in Scotland. Everyone and his dog knew about Alex Salmond.
    Except, as per her own testimony, Nicola Sturgeon.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    MattW said:
    I also am a fan of alternate history
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I listened to Nicola and I found her credible intelligent and impressive. I've got a lot of time for the Sottish posters on this site from all sides. That's what's confusing. The English drama queens like Leon and Big G and the Guidoistas can be ignored. They don't have a vote and any interest is in hoping the Nats fail.

    It's obvious to even his most fervent supporters that Salmond is finished. Whatever happens to Nicola that's a given. My question to the Nats is how can crucifying Nicola do anything to advance the Nationalist cause? Is Sturgeon's defenestration really worth collapsing the cause?



    I have far more connections to Scotland and it's politics including a large family in the North East than your superficial nonsense.

    I am not English as Big_G_NorthWales indicates

    I cannot stand Salmond, nor Sturgeon and have opposed independence since I lived in Bewick on Tweed in the 1950's

    You have little or no knowledge of Scotland and neither our families deep love of the Country and Scots
    I too have family in Scotland. Everyone and his dog knew about Alex Salmond.
    Except, as per her own testimony, Nicola Sturgeon.
    Roger (yet again) scores a spectacular own goal.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,381
    Floater said:

    MattW said:
    I also am a fan of alternate history
    Feels like it was written beforehand.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I listened to Nicola and I found her credible intelligent and impressive. I've got a lot of time for the Sottish posters on this site from all sides. That's what's confusing. The English drama queens like Leon and Big G and the Guidoistas can be ignored. They don't have a vote and any interest is in hoping the Nats fail.

    It's obvious to even his most fervent supporters that Salmond is finished. Whatever happens to Nicola that's a given. My question to the Nats is how can crucifying Nicola do anything to advance the Nationalist cause? Is Sturgeon's defenestration really worth collapsing the cause?



    I have far more connections to Scotland and it's politics including a large family in the North East than your superficial nonsense.

    I am not English as Big_G_NorthWales indicates

    I cannot stand Salmond, nor Sturgeon and have opposed independence since I lived in Bewick on Tweed in the 1950's

    You have little or no knowledge of Scotland and neither our families deep love of the Country and Scots
    I too have family in Scotland. Everyone and his dog knew about Alex Salmond.
    Except, as per her own testimony, Nicola Sturgeon.
    Does anyone else wonder if the old goat tried it on with her at some point?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited March 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dutch coronavirus test center hit by homemade bomb, police say
    Nobody was injured when the explosive device went off earlier on Wednesday."

    https://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-coronavirus-test-center-hit-with-a-bomb-say-police/

    "Police said in a statement that a “self-manufactured object” caused the explosion."

    Bombs that are making themselves is a worrying development in the fight against Covid....
    First GPT-3 putting poor struggling authors out of business.

    Now bombs manufacturing themselves.

    What else will this week bring?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    It seems rather too extraordinary, that a female political protege was unaware of the behaviour of her patron, until he had stepped down.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,381
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I listened to Nicola and I found her credible intelligent and impressive. I've got a lot of time for the Sottish posters on this site from all sides. That's what's confusing. The English drama queens like Leon and Big G and the Guidoistas can be ignored. They don't have a vote and any interest is in hoping the Nats fail.

    It's obvious to even his most fervent supporters that Salmond is finished. Whatever happens to Nicola that's a given. My question to the Nats is how can crucifying Nicola do anything to advance the Nationalist cause? Is Sturgeon's defenestration really worth collapsing the cause?



    I have far more connections to Scotland and it's politics including a large family in the North East than your superficial nonsense.

    I am not English as Big_G_NorthWales indicates

    I cannot stand Salmond, nor Sturgeon and have opposed independence since I lived in Bewick on Tweed in the 1950's

    You have little or no knowledge of Scotland and neither our families deep love of the Country and Scots
    I too have family in Scotland. Everyone and his dog knew about Alex Salmond.
    Except, as per her own testimony, Nicola Sturgeon.
    Does anyone else wonder if the old goat tried it on with her at some point?
    We can't really speculate on that - for PB.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    I don't think this will pay for the government's handling of covid. I think it is going to fall short.

    I'm not sure there is a way of paying for what has been done and retaining living standards at anywhere near what they were.

    Either now, or in the future
    What do you think cannot ever rebound and why?
    Its not that.

    By the government's own reckoning. the economy will not be back at full tilt until summer of next year. The interim time leaves the UK very exposed to rising rates on its still huge borrowing. Very exposed.

    BY the time we get up to full speed, the deficit could already be much larger than it is now, simply due to maintenance.

    Game over.
    That's not possible.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    edited March 2021

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    By clicking his heels twice to make the whole thing go away.
    Well let's be honest. Punters are being sold the line that we must "pay back" everything borrowed for furlough and covid support loans. Which is a giant porkie pie. Because all that debt has instead been monetised by QE.

    It's all just political stage management to try and mark the Tories out as "fiscally responsible". When in reality they've jumped on the China model MMT harder than anyone.
    That's not true. This isn't "paying back" everything borrowed nor has anyone claimed it is.

    This is closing the deficit.

    People need to learn the difference between debt and deficit.
    I have a degree in Economics and a long career in finance begind me, I know the difference thank you. But they're not closing the 10% deficit by fiscal measures are they. They're relying on catchup growth to get it to a point where the deficit by the end of the parliement roughly matches nominal gdp growth.

    The PRESENTATION is such that we must "pay back the cost of covid", even though that's not what they're doing. The sleight of hand is because the Tory Party spent the last decade and a bit telling everyone that debt's needed to be repaid and they need to keep the fiscally dry wing at bay. They've got no intention whatsoever of closing the deficit, today's figures are before we get to the capital projects that "should be funded by low interest debt".

    All this stuff about a gilt market strike has been proven a nonsense since 2008 but if it's a fiction that makes you sleep at night then go for it.
    I have the same and the headline deficit is being closed back to within 3% of GDP by 2014. That's quite remarkable really and is fiscally dry.

    We'll see if it actually happens, these forecasts have a tendency to go wrong, but to suggest nothing is being done is ridiculous.
    I shall tell you why those without economics degrees struggle to differentiate debt from deficit. Because politicians deliberately muddy the issue whichever way suits their own interest at the time.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9320889/Rishi-Sunak-unveils-big-spending-coronavirus-recovery-Budget.html

    Sunak in his speech made plain that "we are all MMT-ers" now, you just weren't listening. He said it made sense to take advantage of low yields to finance long term projects. But yields are of course in the power of a government like the UK, that can set the rules on what liquidity instruments the outsized banking sector must hold, and has a central bank that is readily printing as much money as has been needed for fiscal expansionism, dressed up as "ensuring market liquidity".

    I hate what it does to the social fabric of the country, the way it undermines capitalism by only making it work for holders of capital. But such is the world now. The austerity model is dead as a dodo, we're in a new paradigm of economic management. Jury is out on what it will lead to but I have my own ideas.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,150
    This thread has been SISTED
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,862
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Blimey sounds like I'd better get over to BBC Parliament.

    How, out of interest, are people listening otherwise - is it live on LBC?

    I googled sturgeon and inquiry. Lots of livestreams

    I’m afraid you’ve missed the best. Absolutely compelling
    Is there anyone on here, perhaps with a literary bent, who might be able to give me a summary?
    It ended with her close to tears. Or actually crying
    Pithy, descriptive, dramatic. Thanks v much.
    Pithy, descriptive, dramatic .......but entirely fictitious.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,586
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Then highest tax burden in since the 1960s and Roy Jenkins apparently.

    And for a long time to come. For ever, basically.

    Good luck with that Rishi. Seriously mate. Good luck.

    And how would you pay for covid
    By clicking his heels twice to make the whole thing go away.
    Well let's be honest. Punters are being sold the line that we must "pay back" everything borrowed for furlough and covid support loans. Which is a giant porkie pie. Because all that debt has instead been monetised by QE.

    It's all just political stage management to try and mark the Tories out as "fiscally responsible". When in reality they've jumped on the China model MMT harder than anyone.
    That's not true. This isn't "paying back" everything borrowed nor has anyone claimed it is.

    This is closing the deficit.

    People need to learn the difference between debt and deficit.
    I have a degree in Economics and a long career in finance begind me, I know the difference thank you. But they're not closing the 10% deficit by fiscal measures are they. They're relying on catchup growth to get it to a point where the deficit by the end of the parliement roughly matches nominal gdp growth.

    The PRESENTATION is such that we must "pay back the cost of covid", even though that's not what they're doing. The sleight of hand is because the Tory Party spent the last decade and a bit telling everyone that debt's needed to be repaid and they need to keep the fiscally dry wing at bay. They've got no intention whatsoever of closing the deficit, today's figures are before we get to the capital projects that "should be funded by low interest debt".

    All this stuff about a gilt market strike has been proven a nonsense since 2008 but if it's a fiction that makes you sleep at night then go for it.
    I have the same and the headline deficit is being closed back to within 3% of GDP by 2014. That's quite remarkable really and is fiscally dry.

    We'll see if it actually happens, these forecasts have a tendency to go wrong, but to suggest nothing is being done is ridiculous.
    I shall tell you why those without economics degrees struggle to differentiate debt from deficit. Because politicians deliberately muddy the issue whichever way suits their own interest at the time.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9320889/Rishi-Sunak-unveils-big-spending-coronavirus-recovery-Budget.html

    Sunak in his speech made plain that "we are all MMT-ers" now, you just weren't listening. He said it made sense to take advantage of low yields to finance long term projects. But yields are of course in the power of a government like the UK, that can set the rules on what liquidity instruments the outsized banking sector must hold, and has a central bank that is readily printing as much money as has been needed for fiscal expansionism, dressed up as "ensuring market liquidity".

    I hate what it does to the social fabric of the country, the way it undermines capitalism by only making it work for holders of capital. But such is the world now. The austerity model is dead as a dodo, we're in a new paradigm of economic management. Jury is out on what it will lead to but I have my own ideas.
    MMT = magic money tree, or modern monetary theory? Not that there is a lot of difference!

    Leftists love it because they can spend, spend, spend. Rightist because it increases the value of real assets, as a sort of wealth tax in reverse.

    Debasing the currency has never been a mark of a successful economy.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,939
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I think Labour need to find Jackie Baillie a safe seat and install her as leader

    She certainly impressed me today and would be a vast improvement on Starmer

    A safe seat for Labour in Scotland. You are a wag!
    I did not say in Scotland
    Ah, the chicken run? Not a great look for a leader.
    Being bumsucked by PB Tories not a great look for a Labour leader either.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    DougSeal said:
    If you were 65 or above you'd be impressed with that
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,927
    Roger said:

    I listened to Nicola and I found her credible intelligent and impressive. I've got a lot of time for the Sottish posters on this site from all sides. That's what's confusing. The English drama queens like Leon and Big G and the Guidoistas can be ignored. They don't have a vote and any interest they might show is in hoping the Nats fail.

    It's obvious to even his most fervent supporters that Salmond is finished. Whatever happens to Nicola that's a given. My question to the Nats is how can crucifying Nicola do anything to advance the Nationalist cause? Is Sturgeon's defenestration really worth collapsing the movement?



    Many of us believe that Nicola is more interested in social issues, e.g. gender self ID, hate crime bill, than independence, and that she has no alternative method of gaining independence if Boris says no to a section30 order. Also many of her MPs and MSPs seem happy to keep their comfy jobs and parliamentary pensions, Pete Wishart being the most obvious example. Many of her most vociferous supporters are extremely woke, and are alienating long standing SNP members. Independence is not reliant on Sturgeon, Salmond or even the SNP. Some of us are frustrated with the number of Independence mandates that the current SNP administration have ignored. Many of us want the SNP leadership to change. Others think that a new party will be needed.
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