And so to Sunak’s budget starting with an announcement that parts of the Treasury are moving to Darl
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That picture highlighted by John Rentoul is what happens when panoramic mode is used for unsuitable shots.0
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Sturgeon: “I think I don’t know anything about that”
Jeezo0 -
Yes it is. But not today.DougSeal said:
The war in Yemen has killed a quarter of a million. The pandemic has killed ten times that but globally. The difference is the fact that the war has a concentrated death toll in one country that is also suffering the pandemic's effects. It is, therefore, appropriate to ask questions about reducing aid there.Leon said:
Er, no offense Mike, but I think COVID, which has killed millions, and caused the greatest global economic and social emergency since World War 2, is a bigger humanitarian crisis than Yemen.MikeSmithson said:
It's the greatest humanitarian crisis in our world! As PM putdowns of Opposition Leaders at #PMQs go, this is among the worst.MaxPB said:Fucking hell just shut the fuck about Yemen. No one gives a flying fuck about it.
It also shows what a shallow person you are0 -
The borrowing figures are eye watering.0
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Bloody hell, if Jeremy Corbyn had proposed this...tlg86 said:How does a mortgage guarantee work? If house prices fall and the bank dips out on a repossession, the tax payer makes up the difference?
The last thing we need is to encourage people to default/stop paying their mortgage.1 -
97.1% debt to GDP. Horrific.1
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Come on RIshi, out with the bad news !0
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Two world wars and one world cup.
Wasn't expecting such a dig in the Budget.0 -
The effects of lockdown are going to last way, way beyond lockdown. Surely.Philip_Thompson said:
Lockdown is ending. We're not going to be in lockdown in 2023.contrarian said:
Lockdown supporter in 'refusal to believe the shattering effects of lockdown' shock.Philip_Thompson said:
4% growth this year and 1.6% in 2023 is really the worst possible.eek said:
Plan for the best, prepare for the worst.Philip_Thompson said:Ridiculously pessimistic OBR forecast growth figures. Don't believe them for a second.
Twas always the best idea.
Setting the floor low to clear it easily in future years it seems.
So its being out of lockdown we're talking about, not being in lockdown. 🙄
If the government had just shut down your business by fiat for months on end, even though you invested thousands trying to make it covid safe, you might think twice about starting up again.
Or you might think 20 times.
Or you might not bother.
What's to stop them doing it again when Chris Whitty feels a bit nervous? nothing.
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Absolutely nothing new. Keynes warned about wages and prices being sticky downwards approaching a century ago now and that applies just as much to house prices.ping said:
House prices can never go down.tlg86 said:How does a mortgage guarantee work? If house prices fall and the bank dips out on a repossession, the tax payer makes up the difference?
That’s the absurd situation we find ourselves in.
Fk the next generation....
The key is to stabilise house prices while increasing wages faster than house prices thus bringing down price to wage ratios.1 -
Think it was more apprenticeship and a bit of conveyancing before performing "public" dutyAlanbrooke said:For someone who used to be a lawyer Sturgeon sounds surprisingly heavy footed
Salmond was much slicker than this0 -
Don't we get tax rises at the end of the month?MaxPB said:Mortgage guarantee scheme. I'd like to see the detail of it.
Now we get to the tax rises. Feel like this is going to be horrific.0 -
Get on with it Rishi!0
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Well, I doubt those with the mortgages will want to default!TheScreamingEagles said:
Bloody hell, if Jeremy Corbyn had proposed this...tlg86 said:How does a mortgage guarantee work? If house prices fall and the bank dips out on a repossession, the tax payer makes up the difference?
The last thing we need is to encourage people to default/stop paying their mortgage.
What the CotE is signposting is that interest rates won't be going up any time soon.0 -
Bloody hell just get on with it.0
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Should abolish it altogether. It increases unemployment and disincentivises people from upskilling themselves.tlg86 said:
Indeed, we're almost certainly in the opposite of the situation where I think it should go up (high immigration and low unemployment).MaxPB said:Hmm, not sure about increasing the minimum wage in this environment. Hospitality is going to struggle as it is, higher wages will make that tougher.
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Unlikely - there is very little you can announce here that can be implemented in software by the end of the month.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Don't we get tax rises at the end of the month?MaxPB said:Mortgage guarantee scheme. I'd like to see the detail of it.
Now we get to the tax rises. Feel like this is going to be horrific.
You can change band starting points and percentages but little else.0 -
The key to ending shutdowns is ending the pandemic and that is vaccines.contrarian said:
The effects of lockdown are going to last way, way beyond lockdown. Surely.Philip_Thompson said:
Lockdown is ending. We're not going to be in lockdown in 2023.contrarian said:
Lockdown supporter in 'refusal to believe the shattering effects of lockdown' shock.Philip_Thompson said:
4% growth this year and 1.6% in 2023 is really the worst possible.eek said:
Plan for the best, prepare for the worst.Philip_Thompson said:Ridiculously pessimistic OBR forecast growth figures. Don't believe them for a second.
Twas always the best idea.
Setting the floor low to clear it easily in future years it seems.
So its being out of lockdown we're talking about, not being in lockdown. 🙄
If the government had just shut down your business by fiat for months on end, even though you invested thousands trying to make it covid safe, you might think twice about starting up again.
Or you might think 20 times.
Or you might not bother.
What's to stop them doing it again when Chris Whitty feels a bit nervous? nothing.
People will be vaccinated and businesses are shut all around the world, even in places where there's no official lockdown businesses shut because they have no customers as people stay at home.0 -
Freeze income tax thresholds0
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Fiscal drag. I can live with that.1
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Of course. In crude terms it's an active policy of redistribution from the poor young to the rich elderly, because the rich elderly are the Conservatives' clients - and they are numerous, becoming more numerous due to demographic change, and they're good at turning out to vote. Is anyone surprised?ping said:
House prices can never go down.tlg86 said:How does a mortgage guarantee work? If house prices fall and the bank dips out on a repossession, the tax payer makes up the difference?
That’s the absurd situation we find ourselves in.
Fk the next generation....2 -
Ooh, we need a holiday, I can't afford it, oh I'll stop paying the mortgage for the next few months, because now we won't get repossessed.tlg86 said:
Well, I doubt those with the mortgages will want to default!TheScreamingEagles said:
Bloody hell, if Jeremy Corbyn had proposed this...tlg86 said:How does a mortgage guarantee work? If house prices fall and the bank dips out on a repossession, the tax payer makes up the difference?
The last thing we need is to encourage people to default/stop paying their mortgage.
What the CotE is signposting is that interest rates won't be going up any time soon.
Madness lies that way.0 -
We are contributing to the carnage for which the aid is needed.Philip_Thompson said:
Because we're already at the plate. Alone.DougSeal said:
That's a legitimate question to ask. Another legitimate question is why we shouldn't step up to the plate to make up for said deficiency elsewhere.Philip_Thompson said:
Why should the UK be the only country supplying aid there?DougSeal said:
The war in Yemen has killed a quarter of a million. The pandemic has killed ten times that but globally. The difference is the fact that the war has a concentrated death toll in one country that is also suffering the pandemic's effects. It is, therefore, appropriate to ask questions about reducing aid there.Leon said:
Er, no offense Mike, but I think COVID, which has killed millions, and caused the greatest global economic and social emergency since World War 2, is a bigger humanitarian crisis than Yemen.MikeSmithson said:
It's the greatest humanitarian crisis in our world! As PM putdowns of Opposition Leaders at #PMQs go, this is among the worst.MaxPB said:Fucking hell just shut the fuck about Yemen. No one gives a flying fuck about it.
It also shows what a shallow person you are
We'll still be the leading aid donor there. Other countries need to step up to the plate too.1 -
That's the low hanging fiscal drift fruit.0
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LOL extra £70 personal allowance then frozen until 2026!0
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Effective freeze in tax thresholds for 5 years! Crumbs.0
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Sunak's clearly a buyer on the length of speech marker with SPIN.1
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No, I think they would get repossessed. But if the bank lost out because of a fall in house prices, the government would make up the difference.TheScreamingEagles said:
Ooh, we need a holiday, I can't afford it, oh I'll stop paying the mortgage for the next few months, because now we won't get repossessed.tlg86 said:
Well, I doubt those with the mortgages will want to default!TheScreamingEagles said:
Bloody hell, if Jeremy Corbyn had proposed this...tlg86 said:How does a mortgage guarantee work? If house prices fall and the bank dips out on a repossession, the tax payer makes up the difference?
The last thing we need is to encourage people to default/stop paying their mortgage.
What the CotE is signposting is that interest rates won't be going up any time soon.
Madness lies that way.0 -
Four year freeze on income tax thresholds. If inflation returns, that's going to be one hell of a tax rise.1
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That can't be the extent of it....that won't cut into the mountain that much.MaxPB said:Fiscal drag. I can live with that.
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The strategy is to freeze allowances, limits and ceilings for five years and wait for inflation to drag in the extra tax revenuePhilip_Thompson said:
100% agreed.MaxPB said:I'm seriously worried about corporate taxes rising. If the chancellor makes this shirt sighted move it's going to hurt the economy in the long term. Ignore the IFS, ignore "economists" and lower it to 15% and introduce gigantic or unlimited R&D and capital investment allowances.
We need to grow our way out of this, not push up taxes.
Tax cuts not tax rises please Rishi!0 -
I've sold million and billion @ 87, make the count 39 so far.TheScreamingEagles said:Sunak's clearly a buyer on the length of speech marker with SPIN.
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Corporation tax to 25% in 20230
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Yes that's not too bad. If the economy does better than expected can start rising them up again.MaxPB said:Fiscal drag. I can live with that.
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Wtf. 25%?!
Mental. Businesses will desert the country.0 -
25% corporation tax from 20230
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LOL how are we feeling about lockdown now people??1
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Shakes head.....stupid, stupid, stupid.... especially with Brexit.MaxPB said:Wtf. 25%?!
Mental. Businesses will desert the country.0 -
What mountain are you trying to fix.FrancisUrquhart said:
That can't be the extent of it....that won't cut into the mountain that much.MaxPB said:Fiscal drag. I can live with that.
The Everest sized Covid one off problem or a continual structural deficit (of unknown size) at the moment.
The former doesn't really matter, the latter does.0 -
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. 👎 👎 👎bigjohnowls said:Corporation tax to 25% in 2023
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Dual rate of corporation tax. 🤮0
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Because of the money we're making off the conflict?MaxPB said:
Simply, why should we?DougSeal said:
That's a legitimate question to ask. Another legitimate question is why we shouldn't step up to the plate to make up for said deficiency elsewhere.Philip_Thompson said:
Why should the UK be the only country supplying aid there?DougSeal said:
The war in Yemen has killed a quarter of a million. The pandemic has killed ten times that but globally. The difference is the fact that the war has a concentrated death toll in one country that is also suffering the pandemic's effects. It is, therefore, appropriate to ask questions about reducing aid there.Leon said:
Er, no offense Mike, but I think COVID, which has killed millions, and caused the greatest global economic and social emergency since World War 2, is a bigger humanitarian crisis than Yemen.MikeSmithson said:
It's the greatest humanitarian crisis in our world! As PM putdowns of Opposition Leaders at #PMQs go, this is among the worst.MaxPB said:Fucking hell just shut the fuck about Yemen. No one gives a flying fuck about it.
It also shows what a shallow person you are
We'll still be the leading aid donor there. Other countries need to step up to the plate too.0 -
I didn't know we had elected John McDonnell as CoE....1
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What else was available if you don't breach your manifesto commitments?Philip_Thompson said:
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. 👎 👎 👎bigjohnowls said:Corporation tax to 25% in 2023
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Corporation Tax to go to 25% from 2023. But small businesses like mine still only pay 19%.
I said he was dishi didn't I..?0 -
You mean Blair, pretty certain these are 2008 rates.FrancisUrquhart said:I didn't know we had elected John McDonnell as CoE....
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I'm alive and I might not otherwise be.contrarian said:LOL how are we feeling about lockdown now people??
And you?1 -
The reason why David Herdson and I left the Tory party, we predicted Boris Johnson would do unconservative things.MaxPB said:Wtf. 25%?!
Mental. Businesses will desert the country.1 -
Borrowing to be frank.eek said:
What else was available if you don't breach your manifesto commitments?Philip_Thompson said:
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. 👎 👎 👎bigjohnowls said:Corporation tax to 25% in 2023
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But lockdown was worth it, right???
LOOOLLLLLLL1 -
More likely the thinking is that if inflation does appear and starts to raise the risk of interest rates hikes, at least the government will have the associated stealth tax rise to help cover any rise in the cost of its borrowing.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes that's not too bad. If the economy does better than expected can start rising them up again.MaxPB said:Fiscal drag. I can live with that.
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Any talk of post-Brexit Singapore on Thames has definitely ended....0
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Absolutely shocking. Can't believe this is coming from a Tory chancellor. Horrible.
Completely and utterly awful. No long term thinking behind this. Big businesses are already looking at the exit sign and now Rishi is giving them a push towards it. Completely and utterly bonkers.0 -
Jeez that the best you got?eek said:
I'm alive and I might not otherwise be.contrarian said:LOL how are we feeling about lockdown now people??
And you?0 -
When are you going to understand that the economy would have been hammered with or without a lockdown. 🙄contrarian said:But lockdown was worth it, right???
LOOOLLLLLLL2 -
I'm trying to see the impact so far - and I've had far worse budgets for my own circumstances...contrarian said:
Jeez that the best you got?eek said:
I'm alive and I might not otherwise be.contrarian said:LOL how are we feeling about lockdown now people??
And you?0 -
Rishi needs a huge rabbit out of a hat here. Unlimited business investment allowances please.1
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He said it wasn't right to place the burden on working people, well you have to have a job first....MaxPB said:Absolutely shocking. Can't believe this is coming from a Tory chancellor. Horrible.
Completely and utterly awful. No long term thinking behind this. Big businesses are already looking at the exit sign and now Rishi is giving them a push towards it. Completely and utterly bonkers.0 -
MMT isn't something that Rishi agrees with...Philip_Thompson said:
Borrowing to be frank.eek said:
What else was available if you don't breach your manifesto commitments?Philip_Thompson said:
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. 👎 👎 👎bigjohnowls said:Corporation tax to 25% in 2023
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Sunak is probably afraid of being blown off course by rising long rates and rising inflation. That really would cook his goose.MaxPB said:Absolutely shocking. Can't believe this is coming from a Tory chancellor. Horrible.
Completely and utterly awful. No long term thinking behind this. Big businesses are already looking at the exit sign and now Rishi is giving them a push towards it. Completely and utterly bonkers.0 -
Ok this is a good measure. Make it permanent please and make R&D allowable too.2
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Yes, Contrarian doesn't understand that if there wasn't a de jure lockdown there would have been a de facto lockdown by the public.Philip_Thompson said:
When are you going to understand that the economy would have been hammered with or without a lockdown. 🙄contrarian said:But lockdown was worth it, right???
LOOOLLLLLLL
Which reminds me what is happening in Sweden that Contrarian and the Alistair Hames lovers used to spam this site with.1 -
This is all sounds like a set of Gordon Brown schemes. Extra tax bands, complex schemes for deductions, huge fiscal drag....2
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Boris won in 2019 by running on Corbyn's platform from 2017.FrancisUrquhart said:I didn't know we had elected John McDonnell as CoE....
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I forsee lots of "investment"0
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This feels like a budget that may unravel. He’s painting a picture of a big hole but merely pretending he has a plan to seriously address it, whilst meanwhile continuing to spend during 2021 like there’s no tomorrow.
Fuel and drink duty increases all cancelled, as well.0 -
Get a round in!1
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Sunak is making out that the increases in corporation tax will only affect the biggest, most profitable companies. But surely it own't raise all that much money...0
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Has he said anything about Universal Credit?0
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He doesn't need to agree with it, he just needs to wait a year or two before trying to close the deficit rather than seeking to get it down to below 3% immediately.eek said:
MMT isn't something that Rishi agrees with...Philip_Thompson said:
Borrowing to be frank.eek said:
What else was available if you don't breach your manifesto commitments?Philip_Thompson said:
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. 👎 👎 👎bigjohnowls said:Corporation tax to 25% in 2023
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Yes, £20 will continue. Something about the self-employed equivalent tooTheScreamingEagles said:Has he said anything about Universal Credit?
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£20 extra until September - it was mentioned alongside the furlough extension last night.TheScreamingEagles said:Has he said anything about Universal Credit?
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We also know the very biggest and richest companies already avoid it e.g. Apple.tlg86 said:Sunak is making out that the increases in corporation tax will only affect the biggest, most profitable companies. But surely it own't raise all that much money...
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Not exactly a bonfire of red tape is it?FrancisUrquhart said:This is all sounds like a set of Gordon Brown schemes. Extra tax bands, complex schemes for deductions, huge fiscal drag....
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Yes, 6 month extension to the extra £20 per week.TheScreamingEagles said:Has he said anything about Universal Credit?
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Thanks & @eek too.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Yes, £20 will continue. Something about the self-employed equivalent tooTheScreamingEagles said:Has he said anything about Universal Credit?
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"An investment-led recovery". Marvellous. A "super-deduction" reducing tax on investment by 130%. Fab, if it includes plant and machinery!1
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Precisely. Taxes need to go up eventually to pay for wiping the backsides of the legions of the elderly, and borrowing can't continue forever.eek said:
What else was available if you don't breach your manifesto commitments?Philip_Thompson said:
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. 👎 👎 👎bigjohnowls said:Corporation tax to 25% in 2023
The most sensible measures to deal with this would be to tax the crap out of property and inheritances, but we can't do that because it would upset the stickbangers and their heirs. Hence the need to raid workers' wages and business profits.
This is what you get in a gerontocracy. Why anyone should be surprised I don't know.6 -
Claiming the mantle of honesty and responsibility whilst ducking all the serious choices over how to balance the books is neither honest nor responsible.0
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Well exactly. There are arguments for not raising taxes now, but Rishi is basically facing pressure never to raise any ever.eek said:
What else was available if you don't breach your manifesto commitments?Philip_Thompson said:
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. 👎 👎 👎bigjohnowls said:Corporation tax to 25% in 2023
He might still not make the best call, but he was never going to be permitted to do a lot of things.0 -
£20 continues to end of SeptemberTheScreamingEagles said:Has he said anything about Universal Credit?
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Infrastructure Bank to Leeds with £12bn0
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So, how did the sainted Nicola get on? Any tears?0
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This will never happen as free shipping of private cars is cherished perk associated with a US forces PCS order. They certainly aren't going to stop it just because the British government asks them to.DecrepiterJohnL said:Harry Dunn -- tragic but HMG would do better to take concrete measures like stopping US personnel importing left-hand-drive cars.
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It won't because those businesses are very good at avoiding tax, especially international ones. What it does it hurt domestically focussed big businesses and turn them into takeover targets.tlg86 said:Sunak is making out that the increases in corporation tax will only affect the biggest, most profitable companies. But surely it own't raise all that much money...
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Rishi's worked out where the marginals are.0
