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Is Sturgeon going to survive? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited March 2021 in General
imageIs Sturgeon going to survive? – politicalbetting.com

When the bookies start opening markets on your survival then you know that a political leader is in trouble. Ladbrokes now make it 7/4 that she will be out this year following the latest revelations over the Salmond affair.

Read the full story here

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Comments

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    Yes.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Affirms.

    Godless woman.....
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,611
    Scottish Parliament Live:

    https://www.scottishparliament.tv/
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    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,477
    edited March 2021
    FPT:
    Andy_JS said:

    Depressingly, I've just worked out how much I've paid in rent for my box room in East London. Accounting for inflation, it's roughly twice the deposit my grandfather paid in 1965 for a suburban 4 bedroom house.

    Living in the non-posh bits of London used to be quite cheap until about 1986, from what I've read. That was the year the capital suddenly became fashionable again, after about 15 years on the slide.
    It didn't happen suddenly imo, but it really didn't stop for a long time. I think the real boost was the Blair/Brown period.

    I was offered a one bed modest 400 sqft flat in a 1870s brick block in the quiet part of the City (just into Hackney) behind Wesley's Chapel for about 100k (70k but would need 15k extend lease + 15k to refurb) in very late 1990s. Called Victoria Chambers - I always thought it was a Victorian slum clearance -> workers flats project. All the streets are named after apostles.

    Prices for a similar sold 4 times have gone:

    1998 99,950
    2001 160,000
    2006 220,000
    2017 450,000

    Another similar sold 4 times has gone:

    2000 130,000
    2005 220,000
    2008 250,000
    2013 345,000

    Sales in 2019/2020 are back around 345-350k.

    That is a decent rep of London prices with the Financial Crash smoothed out, for a very modest basic flat 5 minutes from Finsbury Square.

    By comparison, in a part of the Red Wall I know well, trad terraces were 25-30k ish in 1990, pretty flat until 2000, doubled by 2004-5 with most of that in the 18 months 2003-4, then fell back again by 2/3 of that rise, and are now up to something like 70-90k depending.

    Candy Brothers first project was a one bed flat bought in 1995 in Fulham for £122k. Refurbed and sold for £170k.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    I wonder if it is the Hamilton Inquiry that will finish her?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    Yes
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,883

    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.

    If only because BoZo would also have to go
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,339
    Wearing red= craves attention ...iirc
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    Absolutely she will survive.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,956

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    You do however need to ensure the scandal is explained in simple enough words that the general public understand it so know why they are calling for your resignation.

    And at the moment that doesn't exist - this story is currently too complex and needs some simpler sound bites.
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    Absolutely she will survive.

    Amazing you have just moved to Scotland and you are certain of something that is very uncertain

    She may but she is being damaged by all this and is unlikely to have a long term future
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    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,433

    Absolutely she will survive.

    She'll rely on the Lord Advocate to give her cover for ignoring the legal advice. This being the same Lord Advocate/Crown Office which has attempted to stymie the inquiry, of course.
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    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    Agreed it was a stupid, crass, partisan mistake by Ross.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    eek said:

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    You do however need to ensure the scandal is explained in simple enough words that the general public understand it so know why they are calling for your resignation.

    And at the moment that doesn't exist - this story is currently too complex and needs some simpler sound bites.
    Yes, you can frame the significance of what's been done and what it means.. but, you stop short of the obvious conclusion, still less "demanding" anything.

    The skill here is to lead the horse to water so it chooses to drink. If you try and force its head underwater with your foot on it then it'll bolt.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    It did occur to me that it might do the Nats more harm to leave her in place. Her claims never held water, and now she has painted herself into a corner. Let the voters decide if Sturgeon is what they want.
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    Absolutely she will survive.

    Amazing you have just moved to Scotland and you are certain of something that is very uncertain

    She may but she is being damaged by all this and is unlikely to have a long term future
    I have no skin in the game - I'm a LibDem member. I hope my party take seats off the SNP and other parties in May. So I am looking at this using my political instincts rather than from an openly biased perspective like you are.

    I do not believe there is enough of substance to deflect either her or her party from their path to another victory. The supposed conspiracy against Salmond which has a whole load of people lying to the police and in court for internecine gain is laughable - everything else is heat and light generated from that.

    Do I think the Scottish Government fucked up the investigation into the initial complaints? Absolutely. Do I think there was political interference in the process to make it happen at an opportune time? Absolutely. Are these sufficient to bring her/them down? No - have worse brought down Tory ministers or their government? No. Or even dented their popularity? No.
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    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,433
    Whoa, blistering attack on Salmond. Interesting approach..
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    Whoa, blistering attack on Salmond. Interesting approach..

    To be honest he was found not proven and I was very uneasy at some of the things she said
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    Scott_xP said:
    Tories trying to portray the SNP as corrupt so vote Tory for honesty and probity is laughable.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    edited March 2021
    I’ve noted that in the US talk of “Herd Immunity” is far more mainstream and prevalent than here where it has almost become a taboo. The NYT ran a feature on how long it would take in various scenarios. I do think Johnson poisoned the well here with the initial talk of achieving this state through natural infection. The messaging over there is that every shot (or jab as we now say) gets them closer to the herd immunity state. I’m not convinced of the science but do think that with the gradual easing the Govt here is going for a similar approach to get there, or close, this year.

    https://twitter.com/NYTHealth/status/1366397635217809411
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    If anyone thinks the SNP are genuinely about to implode, my 50/1 tip on SNP not being the largest party after the Holyrood election is now in to 33/1.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/30298288/multi-market?marketIds=1.179554856
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    On topic - no way she is going anywhere, surely?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,272
    edited March 2021

    Scott_xP said:
    Tories trying to portray the SNP as corrupt so vote Tory for honesty and probity is laughable.
    The Scottish Conservatives are fighting for the union and this is manna from heaven for them
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    Off-topic, my new Logitech MX Keys keyboard is *sensationally* good. Best keyboard I have ever typed on and by a long way.

    Needs to be for the money!
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Yes, the best result for unionists is for her to limp on and let the scandal drag the SNP below the majority line and have a unionist majority at Holyrood. It's a high risk strategy but I think it's still the best chance the unionists have, if they see the SNP off this time then that's basically it. The moment of most danger for the union will be gone.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,426

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    The smart thing to do is sound very sympathetic to her, sound supportive. Get the SNP thinking "why do all the unionists want her to stay?"
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    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Yes, the best result for unionists is for her to limp on and let the scandal drag the SNP below the majority line and have a unionist majority at Holyrood. It's a high risk strategy but I think it's still the best chance the unionists have, if they see the SNP off this time then that's basically it. The moment of most danger for the union will be gone.
    It will be interesting just how many covid daily updates continues to be fronted by Sturgeon as journalists will not let this go
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Scott_xP said:
    Tories trying to portray the SNP as corrupt so vote Tory for honesty and probity is laughable.
    Where are they saying vote Tory, though? I don't think they're bothered as long as you vote unionist.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Good news Philip, both for you and the rest of us as it’s another anecdote in the column that the vaccines are working to stop transmission.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Sturgeon starting to be rattled here...
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,477
    edited March 2021
    DougSeal said:

    I’ve noted that in the US talk of “Herd Immunity” is far more mainstream and prevalent than here where it has almost become a taboo. The NYT ran a feature on how long it would take in various scenarios. I do think Johnson poisoned the well here with the initial talk of achieving this state through natural infection. The messaging over there is that every shot (or jab as we now say) gets them closer to the herd immunity state. I’m not convinced of the science but do think that with the gradual easing the Govt here is going for a similar approach to get there, or close, this year.

    https://twitter.com/NYTHealth/status/1366397635217809411

    I would say that account is massively over-dramatised, and panicky sounding.

    It makes it sounds chaotic.

    I don't believe it for a team of 20 nurses and umpteen support staff including the army doing 1700 vaccines over an entire day.



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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Committee pissed off at the blocking, obfuscation -

    "it wisnae me!"
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DougSeal said:

    I’ve noted that in the US talk of “Herd Immunity” is far more mainstream and prevalent than here where it has almost become a taboo. The NYT ran a feature on how long it would take in various scenarios. I do think Johnson poisoned the well here with the initial talk of achieving this state through natural infection. The messaging over there is that every shot (or jab as we now say) gets them closer to the herd immunity state. I’m not convinced of the science but do think that with the gradual easing the Govt here is going for a similar approach to get there, or close, this year.

    witter.com/NYTHealth/status/1366397635217809411

    You've got this 100% backwards Johnson has not poisoned the well at all, quite the opposite, Trump poisoned the well and that's what the US is trying to deal with.

    The UK understands full well how herd immunity works and according to the polls 90% of the adult public will take their jab. That is genuinely "world leading". We will reach herd immunity, so its a case of ensuring the rollout goes as smoothly as it can while message now are targeting the holdout communities like ethnic minorities that risk being pooled communities without herd immunity otherwise.

    The USA is going to really struggle to reach herd immunity if 30% of blacks and a majority of white Republicans are unvaccinated. This is what the USA is trying to deal with that the UK doesn't have to.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Selebian said:

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    The smart thing to do is sound very sympathetic to her, sound supportive. Get the SNP thinking "why do all the unionists want her to stay?"
    Not sure that is how Scottish politics works!
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Yes, the best result for unionists is for her to limp on and let the scandal drag the SNP below the majority line and have a unionist majority at Holyrood. It's a high risk strategy but I think it's still the best chance the unionists have, if they see the SNP off this time then that's basically it. The moment of most danger for the union will be gone.
    It will be interesting just how many covid daily updates continues to be fronted by Sturgeon as journalists will not let this go
    More to the point, Alex Salmond is not going to let this go.

    Sturgeon can easily outwit the Scottish press, and the SLAB and SCON. She has been doing it all her life.

    But, Salmond is different & this is now very personal. I can't see Salmond letting this go.

    I was surprised when I looked up Salmond's age -- he is only 66. He looks a good deal older.

    I am sure Alex thinks he could come roaring back again -- and perhaps he can.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,046
    kinabalu said:

    Sturgeon both should and will survive imo.

    Bit early for that don't you think?
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854

    Absolutely she will survive.

    Amazing you have just moved to Scotland and you are certain of something that is very uncertain

    She may but she is being damaged by all this and is unlikely to have a long term future
    I have no skin in the game - I'm a LibDem member. I hope my party take seats off the SNP and other parties in May. So I am looking at this using my political instincts rather than from an openly biased perspective like you are.

    I do not believe there is enough of substance to deflect either her or her party from their path to another victory. The supposed conspiracy against Salmond which has a whole load of people lying to the police and in court for internecine gain is laughable - everything else is heat and light generated from that.

    Do I think the Scottish Government fucked up the investigation into the initial complaints? Absolutely. Do I think there was political interference in the process to make it happen at an opportune time? Absolutely. Are these sufficient to bring her/them down? No - have worse brought down Tory ministers or their government? No. Or even dented their popularity? No.
    Rochdale , you must be an improvement on the donkeys that are the LibDems in Scotland currently. Moribund and useless does not begin to describe them, they could not beat a carpet.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,426

    Selebian said:

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    The smart thing to do is sound very sympathetic to her, sound supportive. Get the SNP thinking "why do all the unionists want her to stay?"
    Not sure that is how Scottish politics works!
    'Works', you say? :wink:
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    "Not trying to be disingenuous, not seeking to play down, I regret the error, mistake whatever word."

    What about "lie"?
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    MaxPB said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Tories trying to portray the SNP as corrupt so vote Tory for honesty and probity is laughable.
    Where are they saying vote Tory, though? I don't think they're bothered as long as you vote unionist.
    There's an election in May. Are you *seriously* saying that the Tory leadership aren't attacking the SNP hoping to pick up votes?
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,477
    malcolmg said:

    Absolutely she will survive.

    Amazing you have just moved to Scotland and you are certain of something that is very uncertain

    She may but she is being damaged by all this and is unlikely to have a long term future
    I have no skin in the game - I'm a LibDem member. I hope my party take seats off the SNP and other parties in May. So I am looking at this using my political instincts rather than from an openly biased perspective like you are.

    I do not believe there is enough of substance to deflect either her or her party from their path to another victory. The supposed conspiracy against Salmond which has a whole load of people lying to the police and in court for internecine gain is laughable - everything else is heat and light generated from that.

    Do I think the Scottish Government fucked up the investigation into the initial complaints? Absolutely. Do I think there was political interference in the process to make it happen at an opportune time? Absolutely. Are these sufficient to bring her/them down? No - have worse brought down Tory ministers or their government? No. Or even dented their popularity? No.
    Rochdale , you must be an improvement on the donkeys that are the LibDems in Scotland currently. Moribund and useless does not begin to describe them, they could not beat a carpet.
    Turnips promoted to donkeys.

    Winning here !
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854

    Sturgeon starting to be rattled here...

    Some tough questions and her ego will start to show in nastiness, she does not like her opinion being questioned.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,182
    edited March 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kinabalu said:

    Sturgeon both should and will survive imo.

    She can survive, and maybe she will. Politicians have survived far worse.

    Blair survived Iraq, though he was mortally wounded. He hopped around like a sparrow with a wounded wing for a few year more, but the magic was gone.

    That is the real question. If Sturgeon survives ... has the magic gone ?

    Because once the magic has gone, it never comes back.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854
    kinabalu said:

    Sturgeon both should and will survive imo.

    Do you have anything to support that position against all the known evidence that she is as bent as a three bob bit.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133

    DougSeal said:

    I’ve noted that in the US talk of “Herd Immunity” is far more mainstream and prevalent than here where it has almost become a taboo. The NYT ran a feature on how long it would take in various scenarios. I do think Johnson poisoned the well here with the initial talk of achieving this state through natural infection. The messaging over there is that every shot (or jab as we now say) gets them closer to the herd immunity state. I’m not convinced of the science but do think that with the gradual easing the Govt here is going for a similar approach to get there, or close, this year.

    witter.com/NYTHealth/status/1366397635217809411

    You've got this 100% backwards Johnson has not poisoned the well at all, quite the opposite, Trump poisoned the well and that's what the US is trying to deal with.

    The UK understands full well how herd immunity works and according to the polls 90% of the adult public will take their jab. That is genuinely "world leading". We will reach herd immunity, so its a case of ensuring the rollout goes as smoothly as it can while message now are targeting the holdout communities like ethnic minorities that risk being pooled communities without herd immunity otherwise.

    The USA is going to really struggle to reach herd immunity if 30% of blacks and a majority of white Republicans are unvaccinated. This is what the USA is trying to deal with that the UK doesn't have to.
    It's more the use of the phrase. I actually think large sections of the population have reached such a state, in pockets, already.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    Of course it is. She's a lefty so all can be explained and justified. Nothing to see here.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:
    The key issue in politics. Parties cover up for their own. They shouldn't need to - all parties attract all people. That means that every party will have wrong 'uns in their ranks. It isn't a mark of shame on the party when someone is uncovered doing bad, but the covering up of their continued wrongdoing is. Yet all parties do it.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,956
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    but not exactly plausible. Given the choice of remembering a meeting that occurred x years ago vs making it up as she goes along - the latter is far more likely.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    I see she forgot about all the other ministerial complaints till it had to be pointed out to her. She is very selective in her memory lapses. Her attempt to be a METOO hero looks ever more dodgy.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,611

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    I haven't read the allegations of Johnson trying to get May locked up!

    That's been well hushed up!
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    Worse than allegedly corrupting the Crown Office, abusing offices of state, seeking to conspire to get a political rival imprisoned and put on the sex offenders register? 🤔

    These allegations may or may not be true but I can't think of worse before, this makes all other scandals I can recall pale into insignificance - but its Scotland so it won't get that much attention. Had this been the PM allegedly doing this to a political rival, with the DPP in his Cabinet abusing processes etc - this would rightly be headline if not worldwide news.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    God this is just a wall of words
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,611
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    Of course it is. She's a lefty so all can be explained and justified. Nothing to see here.
    https://twitter.com/ExStrategist/status/1367048412902744065?s=20
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    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    You can try as much as you like to deflect this to Westminster but this is about Scotland and its politics

    All politicians and parties suffer malfeasance and to be honest at this moment in time I am content with HMG
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited March 2021
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    I’ve noted that in the US talk of “Herd Immunity” is far more mainstream and prevalent than here where it has almost become a taboo. The NYT ran a feature on how long it would take in various scenarios. I do think Johnson poisoned the well here with the initial talk of achieving this state through natural infection. The messaging over there is that every shot (or jab as we now say) gets them closer to the herd immunity state. I’m not convinced of the science but do think that with the gradual easing the Govt here is going for a similar approach to get there, or close, this year.

    witter.com/NYTHealth/status/1366397635217809411

    You've got this 100% backwards Johnson has not poisoned the well at all, quite the opposite, Trump poisoned the well and that's what the US is trying to deal with.

    The UK understands full well how herd immunity works and according to the polls 90% of the adult public will take their jab. That is genuinely "world leading". We will reach herd immunity, so its a case of ensuring the rollout goes as smoothly as it can while message now are targeting the holdout communities like ethnic minorities that risk being pooled communities without herd immunity otherwise.

    The USA is going to really struggle to reach herd immunity if 30% of blacks and a majority of white Republicans are unvaccinated. This is what the USA is trying to deal with that the UK doesn't have to.
    It's more the use of the phrase. I actually think large sections of the population have reached such a state, in pockets, already.
    It is very wise not to use the phrase in the UK because we're well past the point of it being viable nationwide, but they're trying to get as many refuseniks as possible to sign up. Talk too much about herd immunity here and you'll start to get people thinking "I don't need to get mine done, there's herd immunity from others anyway".

    In the US they're struggling to get to that point so its like a carrot being put out "get yours and protect yourself and help build herd immunity".

    The fact we're at 90% and rising wanting the vaccine is incredible. No need to rock the boat, just keep jabbing on, while convincing as many refuseniks as possible.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,956
    moonshine said:

    God this is just a wall of words

    Nope it's a sea of words designed to drown out any mistakes / slip ups in her testimony.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Personally I have stuck £50 in her seeing this out. Either the SNP loses one of its most effective communicators, or I win enough for a decent bottle of whiskey.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Personally I have stuck £50 in her seeing this out. Either the SNP loses one of its most effective communicators, or I win enough for a decent bottle of whiskey.

    Enjoy your whiskey.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    Scott_xP said:
    The key issue in politics. Parties cover up for their own. They shouldn't need to - all parties attract all people. That means that every party will have wrong 'uns in their ranks. It isn't a mark of shame on the party when someone is uncovered doing bad, but the covering up of their continued wrongdoing is. Yet all parties do it.
    For all his many faults, that was something that Nigel Farage was really good at. Any cranks that turned up were immediately expelled. None of the lengthy suspensions and investigations that characterised Corbyn’s Labour Party, but straight out.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    Worse than allegedly corrupting the Crown Office, abusing offices of state, seeking to conspire to get a political rival imprisoned and put on the sex offenders register? 🤔

    These allegations may or may not be true but I can't think of worse before, this makes all other scandals I can recall pale into insignificance - but its Scotland so it won't get that much attention. Had this been the PM allegedly doing this to a political rival, with the DPP in his Cabinet abusing processes etc - this would rightly be headline if not worldwide news.
    These allegations are extremely serious and I think it is doubtful that the committee or Mr Hamilton will found them to have been made out but they will find that she lied repeatedly to Parliament and that she persisted in the judical review wasting public money having been advised in October that there were no prospects of success. Will that be enough? I remain doubtful but the whiff of fish is rank and that might make even her little green helpers hesitate.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Looks like Lord Hill has taken NYSE listing rules and copied them for London. 👏

    Hopefully Rishi doesn't back down when some small section of ultra low risk investors moan about it.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,182
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sturgeon both should and will survive imo.

    Do you have anything to support that position against all the known evidence that she is as bent as a three bob bit.
    It's mainly instinct. A combination of how she comes over to me and how Salmond does. I'm watching her being cross-examined now, in fact, and finding it very interesting.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    Worse than allegedly corrupting the Crown Office, abusing offices of state, seeking to conspire to get a political rival imprisoned and put on the sex offenders register? 🤔

    These allegations may or may not be true but I can't think of worse before, this makes all other scandals I can recall pale into insignificance - but its Scotland so it won't get that much attention. Had this been the PM allegedly doing this to a political rival, with the DPP in his Cabinet abusing processes etc - this would rightly be headline if not worldwide news.
    Hardly. The Tory plot dragged The Queen into it and had her illegally prorogue parliament. She was lied to by her Lord President of the Council - nobody resigned. The Attorney General attacking the Judiciary - nobody resigned. Health Secretary breaks the law - nobody resigned. The government in Westminster has made the Rule of Law a political enemy that can be swept aside, so you can't then demand it is applied elsewhere.

    As for the alleged conspiracy, its a joke. Her government fucked up an investigation, used political considerations to mess with timings and process and That's Bad. But hardly unique.
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,183
    Keep wriggling Sturgeon!

    It may be best for the Union if CON, LAB and LD MSPs allow her to stay in place but allow this to continue up to election day. I'm sure GRN can be relied on to change sides for a little bit of power if the numbers justify it.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    You can try as much as you like to deflect this to Westminster but this is about Scotland and its politics

    All politicians and parties suffer malfeasance and to be honest at this moment in time I am content with HMG
    Thanks for accepting that you are "content" with Westminster politicians dragged through the courts for their wrongdoing.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,024
    Ugh. The matey chuckle about ‘alex’, her ‘bestie’
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,149

    Personally I have stuck £50 in her seeing this out. Either the SNP loses one of its most effective communicators, or I win enough for a decent bottle of whiskey.

    Enjoy your whiskey.
    Irish of course.

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    She'll get through this.

    But she shouldn't.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    Worse than allegedly corrupting the Crown Office, abusing offices of state, seeking to conspire to get a political rival imprisoned and put on the sex offenders register? 🤔

    These allegations may or may not be true but I can't think of worse before, this makes all other scandals I can recall pale into insignificance - but its Scotland so it won't get that much attention. Had this been the PM allegedly doing this to a political rival, with the DPP in his Cabinet abusing processes etc - this would rightly be headline if not worldwide news.
    Hardly. The Tory plot dragged The Queen into it and had her illegally prorogue parliament. She was lied to by her Lord President of the Council - nobody resigned. The Attorney General attacking the Judiciary - nobody resigned. Health Secretary breaks the law - nobody resigned. The government in Westminster has made the Rule of Law a political enemy that can be swept aside, so you can't then demand it is applied elsewhere.

    As for the alleged conspiracy, its a joke. Her government fucked up an investigation, used political considerations to mess with timings and process and That's Bad. But hardly unique.
    You think proroguing Parliament for a few weeks, over what would have been Party Conference season anyway and bringing Parliament back before Article 50 expired, which was found to be entirely lawful by the English High Court and reversed the moment the Supreme Court invented a new law to make it unlawful is worse than allegedly corrupting the Crown Office, abusing prosecutions led by a member of your own Cabinet to seek to imprison a political rival despite your own lawyers telling you this is messed up and the judicial review has no hope of succeeding - then abusing the Crown Office to try and hide that evidence from Parliament?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,182
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    Of course it is. She's a lefty so all can be explained and justified. Nothing to see here.
    Think about the point rather than who is making it.
This discussion has been closed.