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Is Sturgeon going to survive? – politicalbetting.com

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  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    There is absolutely nothing ghastly about my dear Scots wife
    Take it up with others, BigG. They seem to think Sturgeon has an annoying voice. Probably the same people who find that Anneliese Dodds "lacks gravitas" and "gets on their nerves."
    Anneliese Dodds is simply useless!
    We can safely say she`s not captured the public`s imagination, I agree, but this is unfair. She`s very bright and intelligence should count highly IMO.
    She doesn't come over as having a grasp on her brief. I don't like McDonnell but he was able to articulate a clear and cogent view, even if I didn't agree with much of it.

    It's a weakness shared by much of the LAB front bench. Angela Rayner, Kate Green - really? And all led by a totally uninspiring leader who provides no vision or direction whatsoever.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Stocky said:

    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.

    Which website are you looking at?
    I would be interested in that info too
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Leon said:

    Baillie is 10 times better than any of the others. She nailed Sturgeon there - if that’s an appropriate term.

    Deeply uncomfortable

    Pity she is not to lead Scots labour
    Sawar has appointed her Deputy Leader & Health Spokesperson - so she's going to be on the SNP's case going forward.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    LOL. Safe-breaking and the national debt!
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    Leon said:

    Oooh. Bullseye

    I got so bored of the waffle I’m back on D+. Was there a clear sound byte for social media and news bulletins? If not, no bullseye.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.

    Check the Pembrokeshire coast as well, we've got a holiday booked there for just myself and my wife. Will be nice to get out of London for a bit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    edited March 2021

    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.

    I am even luckier - I live here full time in one of the most beautiful parts of Devon.

    If you come down here, please do drop by!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,238
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't see this torpedoing independence. Fundamentally that's a question of identity. And the politics of identity is extremely resilient to individual behaviour, see Trump in the USA for a recent example.

    I think that's right. The only thing is if some of the swing voters get the sense that an independent Scotland may be corrupt. That said, they are already independent in the realm of law so perhaps it doesn't matter all that much.
    That's the point. Loyalists will stick to their team (see here, passim ad nauseam) and swing voters will have priced in "they're politicians, they'll be a bit dodgy" already. The Iraq process didn't do for Blair- even the failure of the policy only dented him.

    Every politician has known the joy of thinking "YES. We've really got them this time..." followed by the deflation of realising that it rarely works like that- especially for process stories.

    Basically, this is a bubble story. As someone (you know, thingy. Scruffy version of the Mekon. Brexit and slogans. Made up stuff about testing his eyes. Was rude about Carrie so he had to go.) used to put it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,214
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    There is absolutely nothing ghastly about my dear Scots wife
    Take it up with others, BigG. They seem to think Sturgeon has an annoying voice. Probably the same people who find that Anneliese Dodds "lacks gravitas" and "gets on their nerves."
    Anneliese Dodds is simply useless!
    We can safely say she`s not captured the public`s imagination, I agree, but this is unfair. She`s very bright and intelligence should count highly IMO.
    She would have made an excellent shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
    She hasn't grown into the post of Shadow Chancellor at all.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:
    Remarkable that the UK has the lowest proportion saying the vaccine rollout is going too fast.

    A sign of us not having many antivaxxers now?
    We have a flu vaccination campaign every autumn and (those of my generation anyway) will remember getting a BCG vaccination as a matter of course. I rememeber I missed mine because I was sick from school that day and was petrified that I was going to die from some horrible disease in years to come. As it turned out the nurse came back two weeks later to mop up stragglers.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    geoffw said:

    Personally I have stuck £50 in her seeing this out. Either the SNP loses one of its most effective communicators, or I win enough for a decent bottle of whiskey.

    Enjoy your whiskey.
    Irish of course.

    Personally I have stuck £50 in her seeing this out. Either the SNP loses one of its most effective communicators, or I win enough for a decent bottle of whiskey.

    In the circs you could at least spend it on whisky.
    Correction taken. For the record, I don't drink either. In fact I don't drink very much at all.

    "Some packets of Quavers and a 72-pack of Diet Coke" just didn't have a good ring to it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    please no. But reality is that the office will need to be built which means something is going to have to be knocked down. But thankfully there are a lot of options.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Oooh. Bullseye

    I got so bored of the waffle I’m back on D+. Was there a clear sound byte for social media and news bulletins? If not, no bullseye.
    Probably right. But she WAS rattled. And she possibly lied to the committee
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
    Absolutely agree
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    MaxPB said:

    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.

    Check the Pembrokeshire coast as well, we've got a holiday booked there for just myself and my wife. Will be nice to get out of London for a bit.
    Just booked for the Norfolk coast in June. One of the few areas of the country I've never visited. Looking forward to it.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Strange that she is so reluctant to report a leak to the police.....
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    This is entertaining for those of us with a deep seated interest in politics but I simply can't see it shifting anything outside the four walls of the Scottish Parliament.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    DougSeal said:

    While case rates in the major EU countries don't look that clever, death rates tell a slightly more encouraging story.


    An uptick in cases won't show in the deaths for weeks.

    The other problem is that an uptick in cases while under significant restrictions is not a good sign.
  • Perfect - they can convert the stadium!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
    She’s badly wounded tho.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Just leave all the questioning to Jackie Baillie & Murdo Fraser......
  • No matter the immediate outcome this scandal will weaken Sturgeon and I do not see her in post much longer after this May elections
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    The thing about committee appearances is that they are really easy when you know you are telling the truth.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996
    Can’t wait for this lot to get their teeth into Nippy.

    https://twitter.com/utb_smith/status/1367041833637982210?s=21
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    I didn't say that but her voice to my ear is very irritating ..
    Why though? Too strident? The accent? The pitch?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    While case rates in the major EU countries don't look that clever, death rates tell a slightly more encouraging story.


    An uptick in cases won't show in the deaths for weeks.

    The other problem is that an uptick in cases while under significant restrictions is not a good sign.
    I'm not sure that's right? There has been an uptick in Italy to be sure, but in Germany (and to a lesser extent France) the cases look stubbornly flat.


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Geoff Aberdein in the Holyrood bar, with a crowbar.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421
    Will the SNP want Sturgeon to lead the next referendum campaign?

    Who comes next?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    So I take it Eck-Gate will be Coulson Mk II - politically devastating in theory, but a story too rambling and arcane to get anyone interested in the real world.
  • Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
    I'd be quite happy to see SNP losses and LD gains. So as I keep pointing out I don't have skin in the game. I am just calling this as I see it - there isn't remotely enough to hang Sturgeon, and the absurd vast conspiracy allegation will be laughed off by most voters.

    What do we know? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The SNP have no real opposition who can speak out on this and offer a viable alternative. The Tories are more bent than the SNP and Brexit shags them in the areas they are strongest in. Labour imploded and haven't recovered. LibDems and Greens relatively small.

    As was suggested upthread, perhaps the biggest potential threat to the SNP is a Salmondist breakway movement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Can’t wait for this lot to get their teeth into Nippy.

    https://twitter.com/utb_smith/status/1367041833637982210?s=21

    One sad revelation we have all encountered, this last year, is that we ALL look 20 years older on Zoom
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    DougSeal said:

    While case rates in the major EU countries don't look that clever, death rates tell a slightly more encouraging story.


    An uptick in cases won't show in the deaths for weeks.

    The other problem is that an uptick in cases while under significant restrictions is not a good sign.
    And its quite possibly B.117 but they may not know.....
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
    She’s badly wounded tho.
    I think that's the point. She won't go, unless she chooses to fall on her sword herself.

    I wouldn't put money on her going right now. But I would put money on her never leading the Referendum, whenever it comes.
  • Murdo Fraser taking Sturgeon apart, it is embarrassing
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    eek said:

    please no. But reality is that the office will need to be built which means something is going to have to be knocked down. But thankfully there are a lot of options.
    More likely to be in an office park on the edge of town than in the town centre, I imagine.
  • Regarding "who leaked the name" - wouldn't the name have been out there? We all knew the name of the MP accused of rape despite it not being public...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    We will draw our own conclusions as to why she didn't want to get the police involved.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:
    Remarkable that the UK has the lowest proportion saying the vaccine rollout is going too fast.

    A sign of us not having many antivaxxers now?
    We have a flu vaccination campaign every autumn and (those of my generation anyway) will remember getting a BCG vaccination as a matter of course. I remember I missed mine because I was sick from school that day and was petrified that I was going to die from some horrible disease in years to come. As it turned out the nurse came back two weeks later to mop up stragglers.
    I am - I believe with some justification - highly critical of the way in which the NHS is structured and run (though not of the basic principle of completely free at the point of delivery). I am in favour of a fundamental root and branch reform of the whole system.

    But anyone looking at the evidence objectively would have to say that the existence of the NHS in its current form has had a huge and beneficial impact on our ability to both distribute vaccinations and to persuade people to actually have them. People do trust the system overall and that is massively important in something like this.

    We do still need to reform the NHS, not least because year in year out, outside of the pandemic, it performs less well than almost any of its counterparts in Europe or the rest of the developed world. But that reform needs to be careful and nuanced to save what is best about the system whilst identifying and changing the parts that have failed us in the past.
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    Animal_pb said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
    She’s badly wounded tho.
    I think that's the point. She won't go, unless she chooses to fall on her sword herself.

    I wouldn't put money on her going right now. But I would put money on her never leading the Referendum, whenever it comes.
    Or - to put it another way - if Salmond is John the Baptist, she is Not The Messiah, She's A Very Naughty Girl.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    That all started pretty well for Sturgeon, but it’s got increasingly stickier since
  • Off topic, but demonstrates how good the Sunak machine is:

    https://twitter.com/RaynerSkyNews/status/1367061740052242436
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Leon said:

    That all started pretty well for Sturgeon, but it’s got increasingly stickier since

    She is dire
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    I didn't say that but her voice to my ear is very irritating ..
    Why though? Too strident? The accent? The pitch?
    Yes!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Lol someone coughs as the mention of measures to meet safely in person are mentioned :D
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    We will draw our own conclusions as to why she didn't want to get the police involved.

    Exactly
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    RobD said:

    Hmm, so what do we all think about coincidences?

    They are far more common in life that most instinctively think. An absence of coincidences is a sign of living a very quiet life. And even then you get a few.

    Similar is differences in people's recollections of events. This is the norm and is (within reason) evidence of probable truth telling. Conversely if multiple people have exactly the same detailed memory of an event that took place a while ago, it's evidence of mendacious collusion. Or it can be.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    Regarding "who leaked the name" - wouldn't the name have been out there? We all knew the name of the MP accused of rape despite it not being public...

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1367069546037805056
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    While case rates in the major EU countries don't look that clever, death rates tell a slightly more encouraging story.


    An uptick in cases won't show in the deaths for weeks.

    The other problem is that an uptick in cases while under significant restrictions is not a good sign.
    I'm not sure that's right? There has been an uptick in Italy to be sure, but in Germany (and to a lesser extent France) the cases look stubbornly flat.


    https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&country=~EuropeanUnion&region=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=new_cases_per_million&pickerSort=desc

    Cases are rising slowly, in France and Germany, but that is with very significant restrictions.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    So I take it Eck-Gate will be Coulson Mk II - politically devastating in theory, but a story too rambling and arcane to get anyone interested in the real world.

    That's the issue Salmond and the other parties need to fix.

    Make it simple enough that people understand.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    I didn't say that but her voice to my ear is very irritating ..
    Which was a follow up to a comment on what she's wearing?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Stocky said:

    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.

    Which website are you looking at?
    Holiday Cottages, Stay in Devon, Devon Cottages etc.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:
    Remarkable that the UK has the lowest proportion saying the vaccine rollout is going too fast.

    A sign of us not having many antivaxxers now?
    We have a flu vaccination campaign every autumn and (those of my generation anyway) will remember getting a BCG vaccination as a matter of course. I remember I missed mine because I was sick from school that day and was petrified that I was going to die from some horrible disease in years to come. As it turned out the nurse came back two weeks later to mop up stragglers.
    I am - I believe with some justification - highly critical of the way in which the NHS is structured and run (though not of the basic principle of completely free at the point of delivery). I am in favour of a fundamental root and branch reform of the whole system.

    But anyone looking at the evidence objectively would have to say that the existence of the NHS in its current form has had a huge and beneficial impact on our ability to both distribute vaccinations and to persuade people to actually have them. People do trust the system overall and that is massively important in something like this.

    We do still need to reform the NHS, not least because year in year out, outside of the pandemic, it performs less well than almost any of its counterparts in Europe or the rest of the developed world. But that reform needs to be careful and nuanced to save what is best about the system whilst identifying and changing the parts that have failed us in the past.
    Horses for courses. The structure of the NHS came about from it being born of the crisis of the Second World War so it is not surprising that it handles a crisis very well. In future, as this outbreak of Coronavirus disappears into the rear view mirror, its limitations will come into focus again. But not yet.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.

    I am even luckier - I live here full time in one of the most beautiful parts of Devon.

    If you come down here, please do drop by!
    I'd love that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996
    edited March 2021
    Animal_pb said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
    She’s badly wounded tho.
    I think that's the point. She won't go, unless she chooses to fall on her sword herself.

    I wouldn't put money on her going right now. But I would put money on her never leading the Referendum, whenever it comes.
    Salmond didn’t officially ‘lead’ the referendum last time, Sturgeon was in fact the SNP referendum leader fwiw.

    Interesting to consider what part Salmond might play, but leading the Yes campaign won’t be one of the possibilities.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Can’t wait for this lot to get their teeth into Nippy.

    https://twitter.com/utb_smith/status/1367041833637982210?s=21

    Wall of Gammon with an Instagram filter.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Can’t wait for this lot to get their teeth into Nippy.

    https://twitter.com/utb_smith/status/1367041833637982210?s=21

    To be fair Maguire and Pierce are the political media's Ant and Dec, they always appear on together. Though making out like they hate each other and each others politics, you almost never see one without the other.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    Pulpstar said:

    Geoff Aberdein in the Holyrood bar, with a crowbar.

    CLUEDO?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    Perfect - they can convert the stadium!
    Thankfully not in the town centre which is a requirement - but it's definitely aging badly due to lack of purpose.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752
    Animal_pb said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
    She’s badly wounded tho.
    I think that's the point. She won't go, unless she chooses to fall on her sword herself.

    I wouldn't put money on her going right now. But I would put money on her never leading the Referendum, whenever it comes.
    Very good point. She's too damaged. There will need to be a change at the top and it is very unclear who the successor could be. "Honest John" Swinney has suffered collateral damage and Forbes and Robertson are hardly compelling - certainly compared to Sturgeon or Salmond. Can't think of anybody else. Maybe Malc should step up to the plate?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236

    eek said:

    please no. But reality is that the office will need to be built which means something is going to have to be knocked down. But thankfully there are a lot of options.
    More likely to be in an office park on the edge of town than in the town centre, I imagine.
    Could be either.

    Inland Revenue in Nottingham is fantastic architecture a few minutes walk from the town centre.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    kingbongo said:

    Animal_pb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think this is the death embrace for Sturgeon, this affair will define her remaining leadership term until ultimately dragging her down.

    There is simply too much for it not to.

    The question for me is merely whether it drags her under quickly or slowly.

    Independence, however it progresses, may act as an elephant in the room that she is glad to point out, but will not save her from this elephant sitting in its more customary corner, or the need to strew the room with a whole menagerie of dead cats and squirrels on the way as she clings on.

    More importantly, perhaps, is that in the short to medium term it gives Boris all the political cover he needs to refuse the request for another referendum *even if the SNP win an overall majority* this year. Citing concerns "given recent events" over whether a referendum would be free and fair, he can now - with apparent justification - punt this into the long grass by appointing a Royal Commission on a future Scotttish referendum. He might appoint another RC to look into apparent politicisation of the Scottish Civil Service, while he's at it...
    I think this is a good point - Are there are enough Scots who will see that the Crown Office's behaviour to fatally undermine any attempt to hold a credible referendum? I think so but that's just a guess really. I have to say the chances of Denmark or Sweden voting to allow another Hungary into the EU are vanishingly small - the sense of a gently corrupt little country run by a nationalist cabal might be unfair,but from the mainland of Europe that's what it currently looks like.
    So they don't really want UK back, either?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I missed the start - what is this?

    At the hearing today Ms Sturgeon also claimed ignorance about a total of 30 sexual harassment complaints against five SNP ministers - while continuing to claim that she first learned of the allegations against Mr Salmond at a meeting with him at her house on April 2.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Regarding "who leaked the name" - wouldn't the name have been out there? We all knew the name of the MP accused of rape despite it not being public...

    https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/1367069546037805056
    Oh sure! But I come back to who benefits from a leak? It isn't the people trying to do Salmond is it, its Salmond himself. If as alleged a senior government official was going around leaking a name that was already out there in a way that compromised their own investigation, then the fuck-up of the investigation by the government was even more egregious than I thought...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    I didn't say that but her voice to my ear is very irritating ..
    Which was a follow up to a comment on what she's wearing?
    No, it was a follow up to pointing out it all looked very Nixonesque.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    please no. But reality is that the office will need to be built which means something is going to have to be knocked down. But thankfully there are a lot of options.
    More likely to be in an office park on the edge of town than in the town centre, I imagine.
    Could be either.

    Inland Revenue in Nottingham is fantastic architecture a few minutes walk from the town centre.

    People saying that really don't know Darlington - and remember the original plan was for an out of town office which has been vetoed.

    The Town Centre has plenty of suitable places - it's just a matter of working out which eyesore provides the appropriate amount of space.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Animal_pb said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
    She’s badly wounded tho.
    I think that's the point. She won't go, unless she chooses to fall on her sword herself.

    I wouldn't put money on her going right now. But I would put money on her never leading the Referendum, whenever it comes.
    Very good point. She's too damaged. There will need to be a change at the top and it is very unclear who the successor could be. "Honest John" Swinney has suffered collateral damage and Forbes and Robertson are hardly compelling - certainly compared to Sturgeon or Salmond. Can't think of anybody else. Maybe Malc should step up to the plate?
    Blackford - then global warming will accelerate with all the hot air.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,932

    kingbongo said:

    Animal_pb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think this is the death embrace for Sturgeon, this affair will define her remaining leadership term until ultimately dragging her down.

    There is simply too much for it not to.

    The question for me is merely whether it drags her under quickly or slowly.

    Independence, however it progresses, may act as an elephant in the room that she is glad to point out, but will not save her from this elephant sitting in its more customary corner, or the need to strew the room with a whole menagerie of dead cats and squirrels on the way as she clings on.

    More importantly, perhaps, is that in the short to medium term it gives Boris all the political cover he needs to refuse the request for another referendum *even if the SNP win an overall majority* this year. Citing concerns "given recent events" over whether a referendum would be free and fair, he can now - with apparent justification - punt this into the long grass by appointing a Royal Commission on a future Scotttish referendum. He might appoint another RC to look into apparent politicisation of the Scottish Civil Service, while he's at it...
    I think this is a good point - Are there are enough Scots who will see that the Crown Office's behaviour to fatally undermine any attempt to hold a credible referendum? I think so but that's just a guess really. I have to say the chances of Denmark or Sweden voting to allow another Hungary into the EU are vanishingly small - the sense of a gently corrupt little country run by a nationalist cabal might be unfair,but from the mainland of Europe that's what it currently looks like.
    So they don't really want UK back, either?
    The difference is the UK government has no interest in going back.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Is there going to be anything left for Sunak to announce?

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1367071144948465672?s=20
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    I'll be honest, I'm still not sure I could explain to someone what this is all about and I certainly couldn't argue who's right and wrong. But the behaviour of the SNP in the last couple of the weeks has been utterly appalling.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    Scott_xP said:
    That will bring a huge number of weekly food shopping bills within contactless.

    Current limit is £45.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752


    Animal_pb said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....

    Problem is very few people are going to be watching her performance.

    Look at people like Rochdale and kinabalu brushing this off as much ado about nothing and they're interested in politics.

    malcolmg seems to be the only Scottish Nationalist or lefty (I don't think he's actually left?) that seems to view this as extremely serious. Apologies for any others that do that I've missed.

    She looks guilty as sin but I think she'll get away with it because of partisan politics.
    She’s badly wounded tho.
    I think that's the point. She won't go, unless she chooses to fall on her sword herself.

    I wouldn't put money on her going right now. But I would put money on her never leading the Referendum, whenever it comes.
    Salmond didn’t officially ‘lead’ the referendum last time, Sturgeon was in fact the SNP referendum leader fwiw.

    Interesting to consider what part Salmond might play, but leading the Yes campaign won’t be one of the possibilities.
    Salmond? Must be joking. He'll have no role at all. Likewise Sturgeon. They cancel each other out. The feuders will surely be put out to pasture, but not in adjoining fields.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    It's 2 hours to Kings Cross - why would you take the hassle of getting to Heathrow..
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    Is there going to be anything left for Sunak to announce?

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1367071144948465672?s=20

    No formal Freeport leak yet - so yep.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    There is absolutely nothing ghastly about my dear Scots wife
    Take it up with others, BigG. They seem to think Sturgeon has an annoying voice. Probably the same people who find that Anneliese Dodds "lacks gravitas" and "gets on their nerves."
    Are you implying that Anneliese Dodds HAS gravitas?
    No strong opinion on her as yet. But "gravitas" is very often code for "entitled chap who is used to holding forth and I am used to listening to". Don't kid yourself otherwise.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    There is absolutely nothing ghastly about my dear Scots wife
    Take it up with others, BigG. They seem to think Sturgeon has an annoying voice. Probably the same people who find that Anneliese Dodds "lacks gravitas" and "gets on their nerves."
    Are you implying that Anneliese Dodds HAS gravitas?
    No strong opinion on her as yet. But "gravitas" is very often code for "entitled chap who is used to holding forth and I am used to listening to". Don't kid yourself otherwise.
    Mrs Thatcher had gravitas. Blair didn't.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That will bring a huge number of weekly food shopping bills within contactless.

    Current limit is £45.
    Worth remembering it's limitless with mobile devices. Though not many seem to know that.

    I had my MOT last week which required a new suspension and other considerable repairs so not cheap at all. Bill was over £500 and I tapped my phone and it went through immediately. The mechanic was shocked it worked, he had no idea that was possible.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That will bring a huge number of weekly food shopping bills within contactless.

    Current limit is £45.
    Other systems have interesting limits

    Sainsbury's claim that Apple Pay will work up to 10,000 pounds, in their stores...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    While case rates in the major EU countries don't look that clever, death rates tell a slightly more encouraging story.


    An uptick in cases won't show in the deaths for weeks.

    The other problem is that an uptick in cases while under significant restrictions is not a good sign.
    I'm not sure that's right? There has been an uptick in Italy to be sure, but in Germany (and to a lesser extent France) the cases look stubbornly flat.


    https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-01..latest&country=~EuropeanUnion&region=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=new_cases_per_million&pickerSort=desc

    Cases are rising slowly, in France and Germany, but that is with very significant restrictions.
    Social distancing works, masks work, but the effect of lockdowns could depend on your demographics and population density because you are pushing large groups of people to live on top of one another which can in certain localities (such as South African townships and Indian slums) actually make things worse. The problem is there is little rhyme nor reason and for every example I come up with there is a counter example. After reading this report from South Africa I am becoming reasonably sure they are able to unlock as they are at the moment at the cost of tens of thousands of lives -

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rips-through-south-african-townships-leaving-a-generation-facing-a-world-without-adults-12229065

    at the same time...

    https://www.heraldlive.co.za/lifestyle/leisure/2021-02-12-popular-zwide-venue-reopens-with-a-bang-on-valentines-day/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,204
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't see this torpedoing independence. Fundamentally that's a question of identity. And the politics of identity is extremely resilient to individual behaviour, see Trump in the USA for a recent example.

    You could be right. But if now is the best time to go for it, and it's a 52/48 either way situation, it could mean the chance is missed and does not come back for quite some time.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.

    To add to your collection if you fancy something unusual - my cousin and her husband in Devon have a converted windmill holiday home - it's a series of rooms on different floors with fab views at the top. I've stayed there a couple of times and it's good fun. Not for anyone who doesn't like steep stairs though.

    http://www.devonwindmills.co.uk/
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    tlg86 said:

    I'll be honest, I'm still not sure I could explain to someone what this is all about and I certainly couldn't argue who's right and wrong. But the behaviour of the SNP in the last couple of the weeks has been utterly appalling.
    Is it much more complicated than "the ruling SNP cabal decided Salmond was persona non grata. They then (ab)used all the powers of the State to try to destroy him, including criminal prosecution, and then lied about it when they were found out"? That feels pretty simple to me.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That will bring a huge number of weekly food shopping bills within contactless.

    Current limit is £45.
    Worth remembering it's limitless with mobile devices. Though not many seem to know that.

    I had my MOT last week which required a new suspension and other considerable repairs so not cheap at all. Bill was over £500 and I tapped my phone and it went through immediately. The mechanic was shocked it worked, he had no idea that was possible.
    Trouble is you have to unmask to get Face ID with an iPhone. As you try to pay
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823
    If Sturgeon resigns, who replaces her?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That will bring a huge number of weekly food shopping bills within contactless.

    Current limit is £45.
    Other systems have interesting limits

    Sainsbury's claim that Apple Pay will work up to 10,000 pounds, in their stores...
    £10k is a strange artificial cap as far as I know officially there isn't a limit I thought. Officially if you had the cash or credit I think you could buy a car or even a house with Apple in theory at least.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Animal_pb said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'll be honest, I'm still not sure I could explain to someone what this is all about and I certainly couldn't argue who's right and wrong. But the behaviour of the SNP in the last couple of the weeks has been utterly appalling.
    Is it much more complicated than "the ruling SNP cabal decided Salmond was persona non grata. They then (ab)used all the powers of the State to try to destroy him, including criminal prosecution, and then lied about it when they were found out"? That feels pretty simple to me.
    Perhaps, I was thinking more about explaining the evidence that proves that.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,236
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    please no. But reality is that the office will need to be built which means something is going to have to be knocked down. But thankfully there are a lot of options.
    More likely to be in an office park on the edge of town than in the town centre, I imagine.
    Could be either.

    Inland Revenue in Nottingham is fantastic architecture a few minutes walk from the town centre.

    People saying that really don't know Darlington - and remember the original plan was for an out of town office which has been vetoed.

    The Town Centre has plenty of suitable places - it's just a matter of working out which eyesore provides the appropriate amount of space.
    And 800 (?) staff is not really a huge office building.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.

    I am even luckier - I live here full time in one of the most beautiful parts of Devon.

    If you come down here, please do drop by!
    I'd love that.
    Am in the south - it's about two and half hours if you are on the north coast! But let me know nearer the time. I'm sure I can steer you towards some good eating and drinking establishments. Some good walking too.

    And if anyone else is heading down here, don't be shy.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That will bring a huge number of weekly food shopping bills within contactless.

    Current limit is £45.
    Worth remembering it's limitless with mobile devices. Though not many seem to know that.

    I had my MOT last week which required a new suspension and other considerable repairs so not cheap at all. Bill was over £500 and I tapped my phone and it went through immediately. The mechanic was shocked it worked, he had no idea that was possible.
    Trouble is you have to unmask to get Face ID with an iPhone. As you try to pay
    Does Apple not allow fingerprints?

    I unlock with my finger with my against the back of my Samsung S9. See no reason to use the face stuff, fingerprint is fine for me.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Such arcane nonsense! Either Nicola is a genius or those lining up against her are hopeless. I'd go so far as to say her standing will have been improved after this morning's showing.

    She has framed her defense in such a way that misogynists line up behind Alex and those who think women aren't playthings for his edification line up behind her.

    It's a convincing and persuasive position and the only cut through from this morning's questions. Who cares who said what to who on March 29th? The public will make up their own minds who are the goodies and baddies.

    Incidentally If Murdo McLeod is the brightest tool in the Unionist box then God help Unionism!
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    Of course it is. She's a lefty so all can be explained and justified. Nothing to see here.
    Indeed. But it's going to be bloody hilarious watching them try to go after Boris' wallpaper after that performance by Nicola Maduro...
This discussion has been closed.