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Is Sturgeon going to survive? – politicalbetting.com

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  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996

    Personally I have stuck £50 in her seeing this out. Either the SNP loses one of its most effective communicators, or I win enough for a decent bottle of whiskey.

    In the circs you could at least spend it on whisky.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    I see she forgot about all the other ministerial complaints till it had to be pointed out to her. She is very selective in her memory lapses. Her attempt to be a METOO hero looks ever more dodgy.
    Hopefully they'll put all the tough questions to her. Are you watching it live?
  • RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    You can try as much as you like to deflect this to Westminster but this is about Scotland and its politics

    All politicians and parties suffer malfeasance and to be honest at this moment in time I am content with HMG
    Thanks for accepting that you are "content" with Westminster politicians dragged through the courts for their wrongdoing.
    That is not what I said but if it consoles you then so be it
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    "It's a good question I perhaps haven't thought about been coached on enough...."
  • RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    Worse than allegedly corrupting the Crown Office, abusing offices of state, seeking to conspire to get a political rival imprisoned and put on the sex offenders register? 🤔

    These allegations may or may not be true but I can't think of worse before, this makes all other scandals I can recall pale into insignificance - but its Scotland so it won't get that much attention. Had this been the PM allegedly doing this to a political rival, with the DPP in his Cabinet abusing processes etc - this would rightly be headline if not worldwide news.
    Hardly. The Tory plot dragged The Queen into it and had her illegally prorogue parliament. She was lied to by her Lord President of the Council - nobody resigned. The Attorney General attacking the Judiciary - nobody resigned. Health Secretary breaks the law - nobody resigned. The government in Westminster has made the Rule of Law a political enemy that can be swept aside, so you can't then demand it is applied elsewhere.

    As for the alleged conspiracy, its a joke. Her government fucked up an investigation, used political considerations to mess with timings and process and That's Bad. But hardly unique.
    You think proroguing Parliament for a few weeks, over what would have been Party Conference season anyway and bringing Parliament back before Article 50 expired, which was found to be entirely lawful by the English High Court and reversed the moment the Supreme Court invented a new law to make it unlawful is worse than allegedly corrupting the Crown Office, abusing prosecutions led by a member of your own Cabinet to seek to imprison a political rival despite your own lawyers telling you this is messed up and the judicial review has no hope of succeeding - then abusing the Crown Office to try and hide that evidence from Parliament?
    I do not believe that there was a conspiracy to make 9 women make false allegations to the police and in court and then a corrupt process to pressurise the Police and Procurator Fiscal to proceed with a trial which they knew was entirely a lie. So I can go off what the Tories have actually done and what I believe the SNP have done which is fuck up their investigation into Salmond.

    If all we need to do is make allegations and then point to the smoke generated by those allegations, then the paedophile ring saga would have had a very different outcome.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
    Also an observant one. And I notice much sudden love for (and trust in) Alex Salmond amongst English enemies of Sindy on the right of politics.
  • RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    You can try as much as you like to deflect this to Westminster but this is about Scotland and its politics

    All politicians and parties suffer malfeasance and to be honest at this moment in time I am content with HMG
    Thanks for accepting that you are "content" with Westminster politicians dragged through the courts for their wrongdoing.
    That is not what I said but if it consoles you then so be it
    Isn't it? You are content with the government. Which means Rees-Mogg and Hancock and Jenrick and Braverman et al.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462

    kinabalu said:

    Sturgeon both should and will survive imo.

    She can survive, and maybe she will. Politicians have survived far worse.

    Blair survived Iraq, though he was mortally wounded. He hopped around like a sparrow with a wounded wing for a few year more, but the magic was gone.

    That is the real question. If Sturgeon survives ... has the magic gone ?

    Because once the magic has gone, it never comes back.
    Wise words.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    "It's a good question I perhaps haven't thought about been coached on enough...."

    Her worst moment yet. Hand scratching mouth. A clear tell
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    I think she'll survive today - she's a competent performer and these 'big events' are rarely what they are cracked up to be.

    I also agree that she'll have been helped by Douglas Ross's premature VONCing attempt. Her performance today I suspect will be just passable enough for the greens to say now is not the time to VONC.

    However, whether she will survive further evidence being brought to light (which there will be) is another question entirely. It smells like she's done, and she's just buying herself a window to make a (slightly) dignified exit.
  • RobD said:

    Yes.

    QTWTAIY? :o
    I thought she might be in trouble but she became safe last night the moment Douglas Ross wanted her to resign.
    Yep. Too partisan. Just like Pelosi over Trump.

    Discretion is the better part of valour here: you need the scandal to do all the talking, and the public to call for the resignation once its magnitude dawns on them.
    This thread actually makes me wonder if Dougie is playing the long game.

    https://twitter.com/RossPolitics/status/1366877487700062210

    Is he really that strategic?

    The only game in town at the moment is the short one: stopping an SNP-Green majority in May.
    The last poll gave the SNP an absolute majority!
    Time will tell
    Indeed. It is odd though that you consider the allegations of malfeasance against Sturgeon and the SNP to be resignation offences but do not consider actual findings of acting illegally to be resignation offences for Tory ministers and their government.
    I have a deep family interest in Scotland and its politics having married a Scot, lived and worked in Edinburgh, and have many family relatives in the North East

    My wife and I support the union and obviously oppose Sturgeon and it is clear that she is in considerable trouble

    Oh she's in trouble alright! I don't think she'll go though. I continue to note the hypocrisy in attacking SNP alleged malfeasance but utter disregard for worse from your own party.
    You can try as much as you like to deflect this to Westminster but this is about Scotland and its politics

    All politicians and parties suffer malfeasance and to be honest at this moment in time I am content with HMG
    Thanks for accepting that you are "content" with Westminster politicians dragged through the courts for their wrongdoing.
    That is not what I said but if it consoles you then so be it
    Isn't it? You are content with the government. Which means Rees-Mogg and Hancock and Jenrick and Braverman et al.
    All parties have members you do not agree with as I am sure you have being a lib dem
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.
  • She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.

    And she is making it too personal with Salmond
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.

    It will be enough for gullible lefties to be taken in though. See our own Kinabalu.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
    Also an observant one. And I notice much sudden love for (and trust in) Alex Salmond amongst English enemies of Sindy on the right of politics.
    Some similarities with the ‘no fan of Trump but’ folk. Even some of the same folk.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206
    edited March 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Sturgeon both should and will survive imo.

    She can survive, and maybe she will. Politicians have survived far worse.

    Blair survived Iraq, though he was mortally wounded. He hopped around like a sparrow with a wounded wing for a few year more, but the magic was gone.

    That is the real question. If Sturgeon survives ... has the magic gone ?

    Because once the magic has gone, it never comes back.
    And will it sink Sindy? Because for me, she looks the biggest asset for a Yes vote. That would be a shame imo. I am rooting for Scottish independence - usual caveat of "but of course it's up to the Scots bla bla."
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    Rochdale - you are forgetting about the cover up. I'm neither Tory or SNP and will happily criticise both. I just hope we can get to the bottom of all this. I'll be honest, it's pure drama.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.

    And she is making it too personal with Salmond
    And yet he is - *chuckle* - her ‘bestie’
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
    Also an observant one. And I notice much sudden love for (and trust in) Alex Salmond amongst English enemies of Sindy on the right of politics.
    Some similarities with the ‘no fan of Trump but’ folk. Even some of the same folk.
    It's quite possible to believe at the same time that Salmond is a wrong 'un and that Sturgeon is pretty dubious too. No great mental exertion required.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Whenever she speaks of "procedure" I hear "glass bead game".
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Her general approach is not so much not remembering where she was when the Twin Towers were hit - it's more "The Twin Towers have been hit? Sheeeeeeet......"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,996

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
    Also an observant one. And I notice much sudden love for (and trust in) Alex Salmond amongst English enemies of Sindy on the right of politics.
    Some similarities with the ‘no fan of Trump but’ folk. Even some of the same folk.
    It's quite possible to believe at the same time that Salmond is a wrong 'un and that Sturgeon is pretty dubious too. No great mental exertion required.
    Presumably you disagree with your fellow Yoons on here who apparently think it was a tragedy that Salmond was never UK pm.
  • Rochdale - you are forgetting about the cover up. I'm neither Tory or SNP and will happily criticise both. I just hope we can get to the bottom of all this. I'll be honest, it's pure drama.

    Its top quality political cabaret! I absolutely can see a cover-up of their absolute fuck-up of their investigation into Salmond. I just don't believe the wider conspiracy which is why I think Sturgeon and the SNP get off the hook.

    They will be seen to have been Bad when it comes to a screwed enquiry and the waste of public money. But not actually forcing through a false prosecution based upon 9 women lying about Salmond. Which overall gets them off and makes Salmond / the Tories look hysterical and opportunist.

    Again, I want to see my party do well in the election, I am not ramping the SNP. I just don't see how the core of the allegations have anything of substance to them and that will be enough.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    I think this is the death embrace for Sturgeon, this affair will define her remaining leadership term until ultimately dragging her down.

    There is simply too much for it not to.

    The question for me is merely whether it drags her under quickly or slowly.

    Independence, however it progresses, may act as an elephant in the room that she is glad to point out, but will not save her from this elephant sitting in its more customary corner, or the need to strew the room with a whole menagerie of dead cats and squirrels on the way as she clings on.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    geoffw said:

    Personally I have stuck £50 in her seeing this out. Either the SNP loses one of its most effective communicators, or I win enough for a decent bottle of whiskey.

    Enjoy your whiskey.
    Irish of course.

    Definitely a mistake.

    The Scots make the best whisky.

    And the Americans the worst.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    MaxPB said:

    She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.

    It will be enough for gullible lefties to be taken in though. See our own Kinabalu.
    Our lefties aren't that gullible. They don't want to acknowledge the detail, because they want Scottish indy as Brexit revenge, and see Sturgeon's survival as the key to that dream. Which it quite possibly is. Heart of stone and all that.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Sturgeon is clearly on the hook for this. Trapped in a net of her own making, and difficult to see a line for her to escape. I think Salmond may manage to sinker.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    They should continuously focus on Salmond. She goes off-piste in a weird way when he comes up. Other questions are waffled to death successfully
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Tried to put £50 on Sturgeon surviving but limited to a fiver.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908

    It's quite possible to believe at the same time that Salmond is a wrong 'un and that Sturgeon is pretty dubious too. No great mental exertion required.

    Exactly, I detest both of them, and hope they both come a cropper.
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    Pro_Rata said:

    I think this is the death embrace for Sturgeon, this affair will define her remaining leadership term until ultimately dragging her down.

    There is simply too much for it not to.

    The question for me is merely whether it drags her under quickly or slowly.

    Independence, however it progresses, may act as an elephant in the room that she is glad to point out, but will not save her from this elephant sitting in its more customary corner, or the need to strew the room with a whole menagerie of dead cats and squirrels on the way as she clings on.

    More importantly, perhaps, is that in the short to medium term it gives Boris all the political cover he needs to refuse the request for another referendum *even if the SNP win an overall majority* this year. Citing concerns "given recent events" over whether a referendum would be free and fair, he can now - with apparent justification - punt this into the long grass by appointing a Royal Commission on a future Scotttish referendum. He might appoint another RC to look into apparent politicisation of the Scottish Civil Service, while he's at it...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,237
    Question: Does anyone know how historic allegations against former senior employees who were not Ministers would have been handled. Is that covered by "Fairness at Work" or the new Sturgeon procedure?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206
    MaxPB said:

    She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.

    It will be enough for gullible lefties to be taken in though. See our own Kinabalu.
    Excitable poster who rarely sees a conspiracy theory he doesn't embrace talks about the dangers of gullibility.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Questioners keeping their powder dry (and preserving time to explore the important stuff).
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
    Also an observant one. And I notice much sudden love for (and trust in) Alex Salmond amongst English enemies of Sindy on the right of politics.
    Some similarities with the ‘no fan of Trump but’ folk. Even some of the same folk.
    It's quite possible to believe at the same time that Salmond is a wrong 'un and that Sturgeon is pretty dubious too. No great mental exertion required.
    Presumably you disagree with your fellow Yoons on here who apparently think it was a tragedy that Salmond was never UK pm.
    LOL. Good one!

    I have to say he was pretty formidable. And to be fair to SNP they have put up two very impressive consecutive leaders - certainly compared to what the UK parties have managed. IMO the only pol of comparable abilities to Salmond and Sturgeon in recent years, is another Scot, Ruth Davidson. (Boris is just too uniquely Borisian to really be comparable to anyone).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    glw said:

    It's quite possible to believe at the same time that Salmond is a wrong 'un and that Sturgeon is pretty dubious too. No great mental exertion required.

    Exactly, I detest both of them, and hope they both come a cropper.
    Yup, it's the alien vs predator of politics, you want both of them to lose.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    It's quite possible to believe at the same time that Salmond is a wrong 'un and that Sturgeon is pretty dubious too. No great mental exertion required.

    Exactly, I detest both of them, and hope they both come a cropper.
    Yup, it's the alien vs predator of politics, you want both of them to lose.
    Independence failing is them both losing.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.

    It will be enough for gullible lefties to be taken in though. See our own Kinabalu.
    Excitable poster who rarely sees a conspiracy theory he doesn't embrace talks about the dangers of gullibility.
    Gosh, you are a bit rattled aren't you.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851

    MaxPB said:

    She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.

    It will be enough for gullible lefties to be taken in though. See our own Kinabalu.
    Our lefties aren't that gullible. They don't want to acknowledge the detail, because they want Scottish indy as Brexit revenge, and see Sturgeon's survival as the key to that dream. Which it quite possibly is. Heart of stone and all that.
    I agree there's a bit of truth in that. But as they say, before taking revenge dig two graves.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
    Also an observant one. And I notice much sudden love for (and trust in) Alex Salmond amongst English enemies of Sindy on the right of politics.
    I dislike and distrust Salmond just as much as I have done for the past ten years, but I will admit to being suddenly grateful for his apparent willingness to torpedo his own political movement to settle a personal score.

    Also, this is the funniest thing I've seen in ages, so there's that as well.
  • kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    There is absolutely nothing ghastly about my dear Scots wife
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    I see she forgot about all the other ministerial complaints till it had to be pointed out to her. She is very selective in her memory lapses. Her attempt to be a METOO hero looks ever more dodgy.
    Hopefully they'll put all the tough questions to her. Are you watching it live?
    Yes but only between meeting so going to miss majority of it unfortunately.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
    Also an observant one. And I notice much sudden love for (and trust in) Alex Salmond amongst English enemies of Sindy on the right of politics.
    Some similarities with the ‘no fan of Trump but’ folk. Even some of the same folk.
    I believe Salmond deserves due process. I also believe he's a very skilled political operator. Would you care to tell me which of these statements you disagree with?

  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752
    Been speaking to a member of the younger generation who is some distance from all this.

    Here basic premise/understanding is that Salmond is a grisly old misogynist and Nicola is a doughty defender of womanhood.

    It's a view and may explain her ability to survive, notwithstanding all the pretty devastating evidence.

    Oops - it's Jackie now!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    geoffw said:

    Personally I have stuck £50 in her seeing this out. Either the SNP loses one of its most effective communicators, or I win enough for a decent bottle of whiskey.

    Enjoy your whiskey.
    Irish of course.

    Definitely a mistake.

    The Scots make the best whisky.

    And the Americans the worst.
    Small shout out for Japanese whisky here. It's a bit sweet but I like that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    edited March 2021
    I don't see this torpedoing independence. Fundamentally that's a question of identity. And the politics of identity is extremely resilient to individual behaviour, see Trump in the USA for a recent example.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Endillion said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
    Also an observant one. And I notice much sudden love for (and trust in) Alex Salmond amongst English enemies of Sindy on the right of politics.
    I dislike and distrust Salmond just as much as I have done for the past ten years, but I will admit to being suddenly grateful for his apparent willingness to torpedo his own political movement to settle a personal score.

    Also, this is the funniest thing I've seen in ages, so there's that as well.
    It is a delightful scandal - and I am sure it will provide more amusement later, when Salmond retaliates - but this morning is dull. Sturgeon’s tactic is to be fantastically dull, waffly and ‘sincere’, and to bore everyone to death. Apart from the moments when she snaps about Salmond.

    Bit shaky against Baillie tho.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sturgeon both should and will survive imo.

    She can survive, and maybe she will. Politicians have survived far worse.

    Blair survived Iraq, though he was mortally wounded. He hopped around like a sparrow with a wounded wing for a few year more, but the magic was gone.

    That is the real question. If Sturgeon survives ... has the magic gone ?

    Because once the magic has gone, it never comes back.
    And will it sink Sindy? Because for me, she looks the biggest asset for a Yes vote. That would be a shame imo. I am rooting for Scottish independence - usual caveat of "but of course it's up to the Scots bla bla."
    She has done nothing for Yes vote in last 5 years and will do same for next 5 years. She is all powerful as it is and has Westminster as the bogey man therefore can do no wrong. She will milk it till she gets the big global job she thinks she deserves. They are fat and happy with powers they have.
  • kingbongokingbongo Posts: 393
    Animal_pb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I think this is the death embrace for Sturgeon, this affair will define her remaining leadership term until ultimately dragging her down.

    There is simply too much for it not to.

    The question for me is merely whether it drags her under quickly or slowly.

    Independence, however it progresses, may act as an elephant in the room that she is glad to point out, but will not save her from this elephant sitting in its more customary corner, or the need to strew the room with a whole menagerie of dead cats and squirrels on the way as she clings on.

    More importantly, perhaps, is that in the short to medium term it gives Boris all the political cover he needs to refuse the request for another referendum *even if the SNP win an overall majority* this year. Citing concerns "given recent events" over whether a referendum would be free and fair, he can now - with apparent justification - punt this into the long grass by appointing a Royal Commission on a future Scotttish referendum. He might appoint another RC to look into apparent politicisation of the Scottish Civil Service, while he's at it...
    I think this is a good point - Are there are enough Scots who will see that the Crown Office's behaviour to fatally undermine any attempt to hold a credible referendum? I think so but that's just a guess really. I have to say the chances of Denmark or Sweden voting to allow another Hungary into the EU are vanishingly small - the sense of a gently corrupt little country run by a nationalist cabal might be unfair,but from the mainland of Europe that's what it currently looks like.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't see this torpedoing independence. Fundamentally that's a question of identity. And the politics of identity is extremely resilient to individual behaviour, see Trump in the USA for a recent example.

    I think that's right. The only thing is if some of the swing voters get the sense that an independent Scotland may be corrupt. That said, they are already independent in the realm of law so perhaps it doesn't matter all that much.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.

    It will be enough for gullible lefties to be taken in though. See our own Kinabalu.
    Excitable poster who rarely sees a conspiracy theory he doesn't embrace talks about the dangers of gullibility.
    Gosh, you are a bit rattled aren't you.
    No more than usual. I don't enter Ye Olde Reactionary Arms in order to relax.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    ooof heating up a bit.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    In a course reversal, Belgium's Superior Health Council (SHC) announced on Wednesday that the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine is safe and effective enough to use in people over 55.

    Belgium was one of the EU countries in January to recommend against using the jab in older populations — setting age limits ranging from 55 to 65 years old — citing insufficient data. Those moves by national governments, led by Germany, countered the European Medicines Agency's recommendation that the vaccine is safe and effective enough to use in anyone over the age of 18.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/belgian-scientists-recommend-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-for-over-55s/
  • Let me guess - on the southern side of Teesside Airport? A massive coup for the Tories if so.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    MattW said:

    Question: Does anyone know how historic allegations against former senior employees who were not Ministers would have been handled. Is that covered by "Fairness at Work" or the new Sturgeon procedure?

    There was nothing previously , FAW was only for existing ministers. The new process was rushed through so that they could get a former minister, hence they made such a mess of it.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't see this torpedoing independence. Fundamentally that's a question of identity. And the politics of identity is extremely resilient to individual behaviour, see Trump in the USA for a recent example.

    Sure, if a vote was already arranged and being held sometime later this year. But I don't see a path to a second referendum without an SNP united and working together to bring one about. And that's ignoring the possibility for reputational splash damage to be the difference between a pro-Indy majority in May, and not.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Duncan Hamilton is not actually a QC. He's a very able junior counsel.
  • Jackie Baillie asking Malcolm Tucker if he can recall who gave him Kevin Tickell's NHS number
  • Jackie Baillie is being forensic and Sturgeon is evasive and struggling
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    She will refuse to answer all difficult questions on the grounds of ‘constraints’
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    There is absolutely nothing ghastly about my dear Scots wife
    Take it up with others, BigG. They seem to think Sturgeon has an annoying voice. Probably the same people who find that Anneliese Dodds "lacks gravitas" and "gets on their nerves."
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    She is struggling big time here , trying to pretend that she is not saying Aberdein a QC is a liar even though if her position is correct that can be only outcome.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    She's not doing very well is she. Trying to hide behind the 'metoo' movement as a safety blanket.

    It will be enough for gullible lefties to be taken in though. See our own Kinabalu.
    Yep.

    She's putting up enough smoke, the budget is on soon. To anyone not paying attention Salmond will remain the villain of the story not Sturgeon, truth be damned.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    There is absolutely nothing ghastly about my dear Scots wife
    Take it up with others, BigG. They seem to think Sturgeon has an annoying voice. Probably the same people who find that Anneliese Dodds "lacks gravitas" and "gets on their nerves."
    Anneliese Dodds is simply useless!
  • Oh dear - Jackie Baillie has her over the coals
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    That was punchier.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Oooh. Bullseye
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Really struggling right now.

    Salmond never got remotely rattled.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Can a Sturgeon drown, because she is right now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206
    Pulpstar said:

    Tried to put £50 on Sturgeon surviving but limited to a fiver.

    Disappointed there's no betfair on it. I'd go quite big on her surviving.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    DougSeal said:
    Shout out to the loons in Germany worried they're going too fast!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't see this torpedoing independence. Fundamentally that's a question of identity. And the politics of identity is extremely resilient to individual behaviour, see Trump in the USA for a recent example.

    This.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,080
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't see this torpedoing independence. Fundamentally that's a question of identity. And the politics of identity is extremely resilient to individual behaviour, see Trump in the USA for a recent example.

    I agree. Why would anyone change their mind about that on the basis of this?

    Good morning, everybody.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    There is absolutely nothing ghastly about my dear Scots wife
    Take it up with others, BigG. They seem to think Sturgeon has an annoying voice. Probably the same people who find that Anneliese Dodds "lacks gravitas" and "gets on their nerves."
    Anneliese Dodds is simply useless!
    We can safely say she`s not captured the public`s imagination, I agree, but this is unfair. She`s very bright and intelligence should count highly IMO.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Baillie is 10 times better than any of the others. She nailed Sturgeon there - if that’s an appropriate term.

    Deeply uncomfortable
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DougSeal said:
    Remarkable that the UK has the lowest proportion saying the vaccine rollout is going too fast.

    A sign of us not having many antivaxxers now?
  • Leon said:

    Baillie is 10 times better than any of the others. She nailed Sturgeon there - if that’s an appropriate term.

    Deeply uncomfortable

    Pity she is not to lead Scots labour
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,237
    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    Question: Does anyone know how historic allegations against former senior employees who were not Ministers would have been handled. Is that covered by "Fairness at Work" or the new Sturgeon procedure?

    There was nothing previously , FAW was only for existing ministers. The new process was rushed through so that they could get a former minister, hence they made such a mess of it.
    So only partially addressing allegations of historic abuse...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,206
    edited March 2021
    Endillion said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    She says her general awareness and suspicion became specific knowledge when presented with specific allegations. Whether true or not, this is a perfectly possible evolution of a situation.
    You are a very generous soul....
    Also an observant one. And I notice much sudden love for (and trust in) Alex Salmond amongst English enemies of Sindy on the right of politics.
    I dislike and distrust Salmond just as much as I have done for the past ten years, but I will admit to being suddenly grateful for his apparent willingness to torpedo his own political movement to settle a personal score.

    Also, this is the funniest thing I've seen in ages, so there's that as well.
    It's certainly a blast for anyone with a strong aversion to Sindy. That's understandable. As is the blatant bias in the commentary from such individuals.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350

    Jackie Baillie is being forensic and Sturgeon is evasive and struggling

    She is the polar opposite of Salmond's assured performance
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Just browsing some self-catering cottages online for a holiday in late June. There truly are some sublimely beautiful places in Devon.

    We are so lucky to live on such a blessed plot.

    Which website are you looking at?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,725
    kinabalu said:

    As I said its going to be Nixonesque.. at least Nixon did not have a very annoying voice.

    The ghastly mixture of Scottish and woman?
    I didn't say that but her voice to my ear is very irritating ..
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Hmm, so what do we all think about coincidences?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    That was an interesting rabbit hole we just went down!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I remember when people thought Sturgeon was a politician at the top of her game

    And then I watch her performance today.....
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    While case rates in the major EU countries don't look that clever, death rates tell a slightly more encouraging story.


  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    edited March 2021
    It was as good as announced last night alongside Free Ports by Ben Houchen. As you don't post this without complete confirmation when the election is 2 months away and it's your party in Government.

    https://twitter.com/BenHouchen/status/1366659269077200899
This discussion has been closed.