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Rishi still betting favourite to succeed Boris but Keir not far behind – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 17,823

    The source also alleged Ms Begum was active in recruiting other women to join ISIS from across Europe, including texting a teen from Austria in 2015.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/isis-bride-shamima-begum-allegedly-enforcer-in-morality-police-2019-4

    So she was a ISIS recruiter, part of the ISIS mortality police handing out Draconian punishes and maker of suicide vests that couldn't be removed, high ranking / well known enough that multiple.intelligence agencies had intel on her....or just a simple housewife.

    As likely to be present but not involved as Piers Corbyn at a anti-COVID demo.

    A simple housewife? Hmm, I can't really picture Shamima Begum as the OXO mum.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 78,843
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    I find it hard to sympathise with someone whose apparent regret was her personal circumstances. Rather than the enslaved women she helped enslave, for example.

    Her interviews reminded me of Ezra Pound - whining that it was really unfair that he was treated like a person who had done something wrong.
    Was the whining Ezra Pound a 21 year old girl who had lost 3 young children?
    The loss of her children is tragic no matter how awful she is, but I must say I find the focus on her age rather curious. At the very least she was old enough to know what she was joining, and the allegation is she did far worse by actively participating in many terrible deeds. Her being 21 now is entirely irrelevant.

    Certainly there are issues around this where people will debate if politicians and governments should have the range of powers they have, even toward the horrible, and what tests and checks there are on those powers, I have sympathy there, but her being young shouldn't matter.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 23,445
    On a lighter note.
    Man U v Milan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,054
    It’s Scottish popcorn time!!!!

  • 13th Meeting of Committee for 2021:

    https://www.scottishparliament.tv/channel/committee-room-1

    Now Live, with a gap at 14.15 to enable ventilation/cleaning of room.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,942
    MaxPB said:

    The question of whether pregnant women should have the vaccine is going to become rather significant as we get down the age bands. The advice at the moment is rather vague.

    My sister (she's pregnant) has been advised by her GP that she should wait until after she's had the baby. She asked one of the faculty members at her workplace and basically the NHS are (fairly) taking a safety first approach with pregnant women while the trial is completed in the US for safety.
    Incidentally, does anyone have any news on when the US Pfizer trial for 12-16 year olds will report?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    Eck going in studs up...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341
    He's remained silent.

    "Today, that changes...."
  • MaxPB said:

    The question of whether pregnant women should have the vaccine is going to become rather significant as we get down the age bands. The advice at the moment is rather vague.

    My sister (she's pregnant) has been advised by her GP that she should wait until after she's had the baby. She asked one of the faculty members at her workplace and basically the NHS are (fairly) taking a safety first approach with pregnant women while the trial is completed in the US for safety.
    Yes, that's fair enough.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 44,323
    MaxPB said:

    Also does the Begum ruling and Dom being kicked out pave the way for Sajid Javid to return to the Cabinet? It should do.

    I wonder if he fancies being Education Secretary.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 71,746
    edited February 2021

    MaxPB said:

    The question of whether pregnant women should have the vaccine is going to become rather significant as we get down the age bands. The advice at the moment is rather vague.

    My sister (she's pregnant) has been advised by her GP that she should wait until after she's had the baby. She asked one of the faculty members at her workplace and basically the NHS are (fairly) taking a safety first approach with pregnant women while the trial is completed in the US for safety.
    Incidentally, does anyone have any news on when the US Pfizer trial for 12-16 year olds will report?
    Pregnant ladies are going to be the unofficial group post 18 - 29 I think. Perhaps alongside 12-17 yr olds.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 24,543
    https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1365280334716301320

    I know this is a fight to the death between Petty Nationalists, but the broader context is that devolution has manifestly failed on its own terms
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,054
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    The question of whether pregnant women should have the vaccine is going to become rather significant as we get down the age bands. The advice at the moment is rather vague.

    My sister (she's pregnant) has been advised by her GP that she should wait until after she's had the baby. She asked one of the faculty members at her workplace and basically the NHS are (fairly) taking a safety first approach with pregnant women while the trial is completed in the US for safety.
    Incidentally, does anyone have any news on when the US Pfizer trial for 12-16 year olds will report?
    Pregnant ladies are going to be the unofficial group post 18 - 29 I think. Perhaps alongside 12-17 yr olds.
    How the hell do they find pregnant ladies to volunteer for drug trials?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,341
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Also does the Begum ruling and Dom being kicked out pave the way for Sajid Javid to return to the Cabinet? It should do.

    I wonder if he fancies being Education Secretary.
    Would be a reasonable fit IMO. I think someone like Javid would understand the issues facing working class kids in the state sector as he's lived that life and done well out of it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,341
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    The question of whether pregnant women should have the vaccine is going to become rather significant as we get down the age bands. The advice at the moment is rather vague.

    My sister (she's pregnant) has been advised by her GP that she should wait until after she's had the baby. She asked one of the faculty members at her workplace and basically the NHS are (fairly) taking a safety first approach with pregnant women while the trial is completed in the US for safety.
    Incidentally, does anyone have any news on when the US Pfizer trial for 12-16 year olds will report?
    Pregnant ladies are going to be the unofficial group post 18 - 29 I think. Perhaps alongside 12-17 yr olds.
    How the hell do they find pregnant ladies to volunteer for drug trials?
    Pfizer are conducting a safety trial in the US.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 14,717
    edited February 2021
    Comical Dave is going into Maths...
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1365265939437125632
    https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1365265940779315200

    (I like the font on the numbers, however.)
  • Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    They perhaps remember the pre opium wars geography. China was bigger then.

    I think though that it would be more effective once control of the Seas is established to get better support from diaspora Chinese. Much of the SE Asian economy is run by this community.
    I am not sure that their policies towards Hong Kong have been optimal in that respect.
    I agree, they did much better with the softly softly approach of 5 years ago. There is no need to be quite so Totalitarian, indeed it shows declining self confidence in their system.
    I think it's underappreciated how different things are in China now, under Xi, than in the period before.

    Before Xi, China had a system that worked relatively independently of the individuals involved. The system, and institutions, were more important than the individuals who were running it at any one time. They were able to peacefully transfer power from one set of leaders to another. For a totalitarian dictatorship this seems quite unusual. The transfers of power between one President and another seemed to be much smoother than in the USSR, or China in earlier periods.

    Now we have the personal rule of Xi alone. I think this necessarily leads to a more paranoid governing style and the lack of self-confidence you identify.
    I expect too that despite China's economic success, and growing military power, there's an undercurrent of fear about the impact of a declining population on both. I think that great powers are often at their most dangerous when they fear for the future. There can be a willingness to strike before they lose the opportunity to strike.
    India will overtake China as the world's most populace nation very shortly, potentially this year - although Covid may have changed that and it may be hard to get accurate figures for a while.

    There's no long term reason why India shouldn't eventually overtake China as the world's biggest economy as a result.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Scott_xP said:

    Eck going in studs up...

    Reaches for popcorn................
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341
    MattW said:
    Do you think he wants to bet on that 30%?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    It's a huge judgment and sets the basis that any individual right can't override public safety issues with terrorism where there is specific evidence that a person will be a risk to public safety.

    It's a huge win for the government and the nation. That you're upset about it is probably a fairly good sign that it's the right decision. All we need now is for the fox killing lawyer to pipe up about how awful it is and we'll know for sure.
    I'm not upset about it. I don't have her on a tee shirt, I assure you. But neither am I celebrating the government being willing & able to exile a vulnerable young woman in order to tickle up lowest common denominator tabloid sentiment.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    I find it hard to sympathise with someone whose apparent regret was her personal circumstances. Rather than the enslaved women she helped enslave, for example.

    Her interviews reminded me of Ezra Pound - whining that it was really unfair that he was treated like a person who had done something wrong.
    Was the whining Ezra Pound a 21 year old girl who had lost 3 young children?
    They are both adults who have/had moral agency. Or are you being sexist and ageist?
    Having moral agency does not preclude sympathy or render personal circumstances irrelevant. You made a poor comparison.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    It's a huge judgment and sets the basis that any individual right can't override public safety issues with terrorism where there is specific evidence that a person will be a risk to public safety.

    It's a huge win for the government and the nation. That you're upset about it is probably a fairly good sign that it's the right decision. All we need now is for the fox killing lawyer to pipe up about how awful it is and we'll know for sure.
    I'm not upset about it. I don't have her on a tee shirt, I assure you. But neither am I celebrating the government being willing & able to exile a vulnerable young woman in order to tickle up lowest common denominator tabloid sentiment.
    Because it would be so much better to allow a national security threat back into the country in order to tickle the broken moral compasses of a handful of antinationalist lefties?
  • When will they shift to 24/7 vaccinations, if at all?

    I can (and) would take a 3am slot a week on Friday, as opposed to a 2pm slot on a Wednesday in 2 months time.

    There's no need to do vaccinations during the night.

    With the vaccines capable of being stored in fridges you can simply set up extra vaccination centres to operate in community halls, marquees, pretty much anywhere, to be open in normal waking hours.

    If our only vaccine was Pfizer, requiring -70C freezers for storage, then it would make sense to run the smaller number of vaccination centres with the necessary equipment 24/7.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    13th Meeting of Committee for 2021:

    https://www.scottishparliament.tv/channel/committee-room-1

    Now Live, with a gap at 14.15 to enable ventilation/cleaning of room.

    Strangely enough for the first time ever Sturgeon does not do the Covid daily political broadcast
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    It's a huge judgment and sets the basis that any individual right can't override public safety issues with terrorism where there is specific evidence that a person will be a risk to public safety.

    It's a huge win for the government and the nation. That you're upset about it is probably a fairly good sign that it's the right decision. All we need now is for the fox killing lawyer to pipe up about how awful it is and we'll know for sure.
    Spot on. Actions - like joining a death cult and waging war on the world - have consequences. Frankly, the more dire they are, the better to deter others from following in her footsteps.
    It wasn't spot on. It was asinine, tawdry and completely off the point.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    It was vomit inducing and having that balloon Corden involved put the tin hat on it. Definitely a 3 bucket spewfest.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 18,804
    "Why, after 35 years, I have resigned from Amnesty International
    The charity's decision to strip Alexei Navalny of his ‘prisoner of conscience’ status is a PR coup for Vladimir Putin
    Chris Bryant" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/25/35-years-have-resigned-amnesty-international
  • The more I listen to this the more I can understand Malc's position on Salmond

    Furthermore, it should concern the wider public in Scotland just how governance is working

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    The more I listen to this the more I can understand Malc's position on Salmond

    Furthermore, it should concern the wider public in Scotland just how governance is working

    G, more how it is not working but being run by a bunch of crooks.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,341
    MattW said:

    Comical Dave is going into Maths...
    twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1365265939437125632
    twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1365265940779315200

    (I like the font on the numbers, however.)

    Can we please stop posting this guy's twatters. It's obvious that he's a clueless chump and doesn't reflect thinking within the EU either. He's taken up this weird position of being more pro-EU than even the Commissioners who are trying to calm things down with the UK and talking up vaccine passports this summer. Even more weirdly he's American.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    Maybe she shouldn't have been a national security risk who joined with terrorists who decapitate people? Just a thought?

    Actions have consequences you know.
    Your inner Alf Garnett yet again emerges.
  • malcolmg said:

    The more I listen to this the more I can understand Malc's position on Salmond

    Furthermore, it should concern the wider public in Scotland just how governance is working

    G, more how it is not working but being run by a bunch of crooks.
    It does sound very Machiavellian and is not a good look
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 28,942
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    I find it hard to sympathise with someone whose apparent regret was her personal circumstances. Rather than the enslaved women she helped enslave, for example.

    Her interviews reminded me of Ezra Pound - whining that it was really unfair that he was treated like a person who had done something wrong.
    Was the whining Ezra Pound a 21 year old girl who had lost 3 young children?
    They are both adults who have/had moral agency. Or are you being sexist and ageist?
    Having moral agency does not preclude sympathy or render personal circumstances irrelevant. You made a poor comparison.
    No - both have equal moral value.

    The whole "but *this* one has a cute life story" thing is irrelevant.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 71,746
    edited February 2021
    These won't be the totals (2nd dose will be much lower) but I've got the following in my model

    To hit:

    15th April 31900035 1st doses
    31st July 52877404 1st doses

    Daily jab target : 445,361

    Now - 15th April 264164 181197
    16th April - 10th May 196262 249099
    11th - 19th May 445361 2nd doses
    20th May - 24th July 196262 249099
    24th July - 31st July 445361 1st doses, no 2nd doses.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,054
    malcolmg said:

    13th Meeting of Committee for 2021:

    https://www.scottishparliament.tv/channel/committee-room-1

    Now Live, with a gap at 14.15 to enable ventilation/cleaning of room.

    Strangely enough for the first time ever Sturgeon does not do the Covid daily political broadcast
    Something else on her mind, that she needs to follow closely?
  • Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    The more I listen to this the more I can understand Malc's position on Salmond

    Furthermore, it should concern the wider public in Scotland just how governance is working

    The Scots do seem to have a talent for falling out with each other, as documented in the Scottish play, Braveheart and Mike Bassett, England Manager.
  • I can understand fishermen being upset with the new bureaucracy and hurdles, but I don't get the total dismissal of the significant uplift in their quotas by 25% overall, which we put the whole trade deal on the line for on their behalf.

    It seems some of them genuinely thought they'd get 100% of the fish in all our waters and free rein to sell it on to the EU with no extra hassle whatsoever.

    That was never realistic.

    Lol. Many fishermen have had a cut in their quota. Of the ones with an increase in their quota they now find themselves unable to export the extra fish they can now catch. Which makes catching them uneconomical.

    Do you actually understand how things work in the real world? You see those seas surrounding the UK? Most of the little fishies are types that British people do not eat. They are fish that foreign types like to eat. So we export most of our catch to them, and import the fishies we do like eating which mainly swim in forrin waters.

    Being able to catch more mackrel is fucking useless to a fisherman if he can't sell them for a profit. Nor will Shagger's "eat British fish" campaign persuade us to have Mackrel and Chips.
    I've reviewed the quota tables. There are very few cuts at all on the British side. On your attempt to patronise me on the broader point you might have an argument had I personally claimed it would all be plain sailing, but instead I'd said the naïvety was on the fisherman's side. So null points there mate.

    There are several posters whose analysis of the subject matter stands up to scrutiny. With your repeated hyperbole and transparent agenda you are not one of them, despite your attempts to "appeal to authority" through the fact you sit in on some supermarket powerpoint presentations and then pass on and exaggerate your selected chosen facts.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,325
    Popcorn sales through the roof today then? :D
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,780
    I think you would struggle to find many English punters that don’t post on here who understand this farrago. But I have sympathy for Mr Brandenburg - this is a matter where there are no easy means by which to blame the English.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 54,002
    edited February 2021

    Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    The Supreme Court has made the decision and has majority public support


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1365239402885230594?s=19
  • It was recorded over two weeks ago, and I doubt he had the say yesterday to the US network that it should be broadcast last night, as the Queen had spoken about vaccination. At worst it is an unfortunate coincidence.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341

    Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    We have the actions of the Home Secretary here supported by the Supreme Court - a body not backward at coming forward when it thinks Govt. needs putting back in its box.

    That the Supreme Court think this appropriate in this instance should give considerable comfort. This is not an arbitrary action of an arbitrary government. It is an action supported by the highest court in the land.
  • I don't agree with stripping of citizenship, it is a bad and dangerous power. There should be a legal process so that she is tried and subject to a long jail sentence if found guilty. A modern treason act should be introduced as it would have been easy to prove in this case and would cover us for future cases but obviously can't be retroactive. One problem the government would face on her return would be acquiring witness statements and evidence.
  • eekeek Posts: 20,666
    DougSeal said:

    I think you would struggle to find many English punters that don’t post on here who understand this farrago. But I have sympathy for Mr Brandenburg - this is a matter where there are no easy means by which to blame the English.
    I post on here and just about understand what the details are.

    And even then I wouldn't bet on Sturgeon going as I haven't a clue if anyone could replace her.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    The Supreme Court has made the decision and has majority public support


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1365239402885230594?s=19
    70% of the public have common sense and a functioning moral compass, 16% do not.

    That sounds about right.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 725
    edited February 2021
    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    Comical Dave is going into Maths...
    twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1365265939437125632
    twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1365265940779315200

    (I like the font on the numbers, however.)

    Can we please stop posting this guy's twatters. It's obvious that he's a clueless chump and doesn't reflect thinking within the EU either. He's taken up this weird position of being more pro-EU than even the Commissioners who are trying to calm things down with the UK and talking up vaccine passports this summer. Even more weirdly he's American.
    I'm content with the odd update but not every single tweet from him. The issue is not that he's a complete nobody as he's not unfortunately. He's employed by the French version of the BBC World News channel as one of their senior correspondents. It's pretty shocking they'd hire someone with less balance than a Fox News contributor and it puts Laura Kuenssberg's moronic holiday questions into perspective.
  • I can understand fishermen being upset with the new bureaucracy and hurdles, but I don't get the total dismissal of the significant uplift in their quotas by 25% overall, which we put the whole trade deal on the line for on their behalf.

    It seems some of them genuinely thought they'd get 100% of the fish in all our waters and free rein to sell it on to the EU with no extra hassle whatsoever.

    That was never realistic.

    Lol. Many fishermen have had a cut in their quota. Of the ones with an increase in their quota they now find themselves unable to export the extra fish they can now catch. Which makes catching them uneconomical.

    Do you actually understand how things work in the real world? You see those seas surrounding the UK? Most of the little fishies are types that British people do not eat. They are fish that foreign types like to eat. So we export most of our catch to them, and import the fishies we do like eating which mainly swim in forrin waters.

    Being able to catch more mackrel is fucking useless to a fisherman if he can't sell them for a profit. Nor will Shagger's "eat British fish" campaign persuade us to have Mackrel and Chips.
    I've reviewed the quota tables. There are very few cuts at all on the British side. On your attempt to patronise me on the broader point you might have an argument had I personally claimed it would all be plain sailing, but instead I'd said the naïvety was on the fisherman's side. So null points there mate.

    There are several posters whose analysis of the subject matter stands up to scrutiny. With your repeated hyperbole and transparent agenda you are not one of them, despite your attempts to "appeal to authority" through the fact you sit in on some supermarket powerpoint presentations and then pass on and exaggerate your selected chosen facts.
    lol - I am not and never have claimed to be an authority on fishing. With regards to your patronising dismissal of the real world concerns of the fishing industry I note that you entirely evade the key point. A bigger quota - your proposed prize - is useless if you can't sell the fish.

    A policy disaster for which you now blame the fishermen. My transparent agenda is for the UK to be a global trading nation. What is your transparent agenda when you blame the industry their naivety in expecting a "we're fighting for fishing" government in not utterly knackering them.
  • Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    We have the actions of the Home Secretary here supported by the Supreme Court - a body not backward at coming forward when it thinks Govt. needs putting back in its box.

    That the Supreme Court think this appropriate in this instance should give considerable comfort. This is not an arbitrary action of an arbitrary government. It is an action supported by the highest court in the land.
    Again (again) I am not really attacking the decision. I am questioning whether the supporters of this "remove their citizenship" power would be happy with it being used by their political enemies on people they don't necessarily believe to be deserving of such actions.
  • I've seen this time and time again: Harry, Chris Martin, my best mate's brother, who got hitched to a Californian girl...

    Is there something about being a British man that marries an American woman that turns you into a twat?

    [Edit: shit, forgot the deputy Ed..😬 ]
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,489
    I don't know who these committee members are, but they are not coming across very well.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    We have the actions of the Home Secretary here supported by the Supreme Court - a body not backward at coming forward when it thinks Govt. needs putting back in its box.

    That the Supreme Court think this appropriate in this instance should give considerable comfort. This is not an arbitrary action of an arbitrary government. It is an action supported by the highest court in the land.
    Again (again) I am not really attacking the decision. I am questioning whether the supporters of this "remove their citizenship" power would be happy with it being used by their political enemies on people they don't necessarily believe to be deserving of such actions.
    How many political enemies of the Government have had their citizenship removed? Is it zero?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Bloody hell - the current questioner of Salmond is an utter cnut
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,489
    edited February 2021
    Floater said:

    Bloody hell - the current questioner of Salmond is an utter cnut

    I thought the woman before was bad, but this guy is on another level!

    EDIT: He's a Lib Dem. Makes sense.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520
    edited February 2021

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    I find it hard to sympathise with someone whose apparent regret was her personal circumstances. Rather than the enslaved women she helped enslave, for example.

    Her interviews reminded me of Ezra Pound - whining that it was really unfair that he was treated like a person who had done something wrong.
    Was the whining Ezra Pound a 21 year old girl who had lost 3 young children?
    They are both adults who have/had moral agency. Or are you being sexist and ageist?
    Having moral agency does not preclude sympathy or render personal circumstances irrelevant. You made a poor comparison.
    No - both have equal moral value.

    The whole "but *this* one has a cute life story" thing is irrelevant.
    That she was groomed as a child and succumbed to extremism at the age of 15.
    That there is no proof of direct involvement in atrocities.
    That she has lost 3 young children by the age of 21.
    That she has been stripped of citizenship and left stateless in a refugee camp.
    That she is prevented from even appealing this through government assertion of security risk.

    These things are only irrelevant if you are the sort of person whose faculties shut down on seeing the word "Isis".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 42,730

    Another way to stop invasion might be to build Taiwanese processor plants in easy-to-helilift units - get the whole of their productive capacity away and onto US vessels within 24 hours.

    Not even remotely possible, alas. Semiconductor fabs have two unfortunate attributes; they're very, very large and filled with equipment that is hugely expensive and so exquisitely fragile that even specks of dust can cause them to produce lumps of dead silicon rather than working chips.

    Which is part of the problem with Taiwan. A couple of bombs dropped in the right place could take a big chunk of the world's semiconductor capacity off-line for possibly years.

    The current administration seems to have worked that out...

    Executive Order Paves Way for $37bn to Boost U.S. Chip Capacity
    https://www.eetimes.com/executive-order-paves-way-for-37bn-to-boost-u-s-chip-capacity/
  • Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    The Supreme Court has made the decision and has majority public support


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1365239402885230594?s=19
    70% of the public have common sense and a functioning moral compass, 16% do not.

    That sounds about right.
    People disagreeing with you doesn't mean they necessarily lack a functioning moral compass or common sense.

    You know you can just disagree with someone by saying you disagree with them, rather than claiming they are degenerate morons?
  • I can understand fishermen being upset with the new bureaucracy and hurdles, but I don't get the total dismissal of the significant uplift in their quotas by 25% overall, which we put the whole trade deal on the line for on their behalf.

    It seems some of them genuinely thought they'd get 100% of the fish in all our waters and free rein to sell it on to the EU with no extra hassle whatsoever.

    That was never realistic.

    Lol. Many fishermen have had a cut in their quota. Of the ones with an increase in their quota they now find themselves unable to export the extra fish they can now catch. Which makes catching them uneconomical.

    Do you actually understand how things work in the real world? You see those seas surrounding the UK? Most of the little fishies are types that British people do not eat. They are fish that foreign types like to eat. So we export most of our catch to them, and import the fishies we do like eating which mainly swim in forrin waters.

    Being able to catch more mackrel is fucking useless to a fisherman if he can't sell them for a profit. Nor will Shagger's "eat British fish" campaign persuade us to have Mackrel and Chips.
    I've reviewed the quota tables. There are very few cuts at all on the British side. On your attempt to patronise me on the broader point you might have an argument had I personally claimed it would all be plain sailing, but instead I'd said the naïvety was on the fisherman's side. So null points there mate.

    There are several posters whose analysis of the subject matter stands up to scrutiny. With your repeated hyperbole and transparent agenda you are not one of them, despite your attempts to "appeal to authority" through the fact you sit in on some supermarket powerpoint presentations and then pass on and exaggerate your selected chosen facts.
    lol - I am not and never have claimed to be an authority on fishing. With regards to your patronising dismissal of the real world concerns of the fishing industry I note that you entirely evade the key point. A bigger quota - your proposed prize - is useless if you can't sell the fish.

    A policy disaster for which you now blame the fishermen. My transparent agenda is for the UK to be a global trading nation. What is your transparent agenda when you blame the industry their naivety in expecting a "we're fighting for fishing" government in not utterly knackering them.
    I'm not dismissing it, dipshit. Read my original post again - and again - until you understand it.

    I've said on here time and time again we need a LPF arrangement on SPS standards, and specific negotiations to facilitate fresh fish and meat export. Would that get rid of all bureaucracy? No, but with increased quotas and easier clearance it would allow for more sustainable and viable businesses.

    You are just obsessed with being seen to bash your simple-minded Brexiteer stereotype so you keep putting up strawmen to do it. You feel the right to wade in and lecture anyone on that basis who dares to opine on food supply chains, and you do so in an extremely condescending way.

    Engage with me with respect as an individual, or fuck off.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    tlg86 said:

    Floater said:

    Bloody hell - the current questioner of Salmond is an utter cnut

    I thought the woman before was bad, but this guy is on another level!

    EDIT: He's a Lib Dem. Makes sense.
    I know nothing about him - but his behaviour here is appalling
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 52,132
    Floater said:

    Bloody hell - the current questioner of Salmond is an utter cnut

    Will Salmond Dane to answer his questions? :smile:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 45,341
    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who these committee members are, but they are not coming across very well.

    Salmond trying to demonstrate that Scottish Government is not fit for purpose. "Huge issues at stake here."

    The others treating it with all the drama of a planning application for a garden shed in Little Dunny on the Wold Parish Council....
  • Floater said:

    Bloody hell - the current questioner of Salmond is an utter cnut

    This is shocking and I feel the only person to respect ironically is Salmond

    So far the SNP member and especially the Lib Dem one now are frankly embarrassing
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    The Supreme Court has made the decision and has majority public support


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1365239402885230594?s=19
    70% of the public have common sense and a functioning moral compass, 16% do not.

    That sounds about right.
    People disagreeing with you doesn't mean they necessarily lack a functioning moral compass or common sense.

    You know you can just disagree with someone by saying you disagree with them, rather than claiming they are degenerate morons?
    Except that in this case I do believe that many of the people who want her back here are degenerate morons, and I'm not accustomed to lying about what I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 42,730
    'Nanopatticles' joins up with the Great Barringtonians...

    https://twitter.com/s8mb/status/1365244249785184256
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,341

    I've seen this time and time again: Harry, Chris Martin, my best mate's brother, who got hitched to a Californian girl...

    Is there something about being a British man that marries an American woman that turns you into a twat?

    [Edit: shit, forgot the deputy Ed..😬 ]

    Could be the guy being a twat in the first place? We know that to be true of Chris Martin at least. No need to blame the women when the men are clearly the main issue.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,341
    Nigelb said:

    Another way to stop invasion might be to build Taiwanese processor plants in easy-to-helilift units - get the whole of their productive capacity away and onto US vessels within 24 hours.

    Not even remotely possible, alas. Semiconductor fabs have two unfortunate attributes; they're very, very large and filled with equipment that is hugely expensive and so exquisitely fragile that even specks of dust can cause them to produce lumps of dead silicon rather than working chips.

    Which is part of the problem with Taiwan. A couple of bombs dropped in the right place could take a big chunk of the world's semiconductor capacity off-line for possibly years.

    The current administration seems to have worked that out...

    Executive Order Paves Way for $37bn to Boost U.S. Chip Capacity
    https://www.eetimes.com/executive-order-paves-way-for-37bn-to-boost-u-s-chip-capacity/
    We need to follow suit here and it will be much tougher because we don't have any serious domestic industry unlike the US which has got Intel.
  • MaxPB said:

    I've seen this time and time again: Harry, Chris Martin, my best mate's brother, who got hitched to a Californian girl...

    Is there something about being a British man that marries an American woman that turns you into a twat?

    [Edit: shit, forgot the deputy Ed..😬 ]

    Could be the guy being a twat in the first place? We know that to be true of Chris Martin at least. No need to blame the women when the men are clearly the main issue.
    It's not me blaming the gender it's more the culture.

    Maybe there's a latent twatness inherent in each of them which was successfully drawn out by it on a "when in Rome" basis..
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,152

    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who these committee members are, but they are not coming across very well.

    Salmond trying to demonstrate that Scottish Government is not fit for purpose.
    Some of these committee members exemplify why.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,325
    Do Alex and Nicola hate each other's guts more or less than how much they hate English? ;)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Bloody hell - the current questioner of Salmond is an utter cnut

    This is shocking and I feel the only person to respect ironically is Salmond

    So far the SNP member and especially the Lib Dem one now are frankly embarrassing
    He just makes himself look worse and worse with every moment that passes

    I have no love of Salmond but it's clear what is being attempted here
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    Gadfly said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who these committee members are, but they are not coming across very well.

    Salmond trying to demonstrate that Scottish Government is not fit for purpose.
    Some of these committee members exemplify why.

    That diddy Liberal Cole - Hamilton is an absolute disgrace, not one question on the remit of the inquiry. Just wasted time.
    Hands up, I lost my temper’ – Alex Cole-Hamilton apologises after being caught swearing at minister during Scottish Parliament committee meeting
  • kamskikamski Posts: 2,602
    Richardr said:

    It was recorded over two weeks ago, and I doubt he had the say yesterday to the US network that it should be broadcast last night, as the Queen had spoken about vaccination. At worst it is an unfortunate coincidence.
    Kind of a small demonstration of Harry's point about how shit the UK press coverage of him and Meghan is. I'm not interested in what they get up to in the US, but can't fault them for trying to leave that shit behind them.
  • malcolmg said:

    Gadfly said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who these committee members are, but they are not coming across very well.

    Salmond trying to demonstrate that Scottish Government is not fit for purpose.
    Some of these committee members exemplify why.

    That diddy Liberal Cole - Hamilton is an absolute disgrace, not one question on the remit of the inquiry. Just wasted time.
    Hands up, I lost my temper’ – Alex Cole-Hamilton apologises after being caught swearing at minister during Scottish Parliament committee meeting
    I support you 100% on that Malc
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    It's a huge judgment and sets the basis that any individual right can't override public safety issues with terrorism where there is specific evidence that a person will be a risk to public safety.

    It's a huge win for the government and the nation. That you're upset about it is probably a fairly good sign that it's the right decision. All we need now is for the fox killing lawyer to pipe up about how awful it is and we'll know for sure.
    I'm not upset about it. I don't have her on a tee shirt, I assure you. But neither am I celebrating the government being willing & able to exile a vulnerable young woman in order to tickle up lowest common denominator tabloid sentiment.
    Because it would be so much better to allow a national security threat back into the country in order to tickle the broken moral compasses of a handful of antinationalist lefties?
    This is not the point. Or rather it shouldn't be. The issue was whether she should be allowed entry to the UK in order to fight her appeal against being exiled in stateless limbo. The government said she shouldn't because she was too much of a security risk. The Court of Appeal said she should. The Supreme Court now says she shouldn't. She therefore remains in stateless limbo in a refugee camp unable to fight her appeal against it. Apart from on the (understandable) visceral level of "Serves her right, Isis cow" there is little to celebrate here.
  • Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    We have the actions of the Home Secretary here supported by the Supreme Court - a body not backward at coming forward when it thinks Govt. needs putting back in its box.

    That the Supreme Court think this appropriate in this instance should give considerable comfort. This is not an arbitrary action of an arbitrary government. It is an action supported by the highest court in the land.
    Again (again) I am not really attacking the decision. I am questioning whether the supporters of this "remove their citizenship" power would be happy with it being used by their political enemies on people they don't necessarily believe to be deserving of such actions.
    How many political enemies of the Government have had their citizenship removed? Is it zero?
    Begum - the token terrorist for one.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,341
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    It's a huge judgment and sets the basis that any individual right can't override public safety issues with terrorism where there is specific evidence that a person will be a risk to public safety.

    It's a huge win for the government and the nation. That you're upset about it is probably a fairly good sign that it's the right decision. All we need now is for the fox killing lawyer to pipe up about how awful it is and we'll know for sure.
    I'm not upset about it. I don't have her on a tee shirt, I assure you. But neither am I celebrating the government being willing & able to exile a vulnerable young woman in order to tickle up lowest common denominator tabloid sentiment.
    Because it would be so much better to allow a national security threat back into the country in order to tickle the broken moral compasses of a handful of antinationalist lefties?
    This is not the point. Or rather it shouldn't be. The issue was whether she should be allowed entry to the UK in order to fight her appeal against being exiled in stateless limbo. The government said she shouldn't because she was too much of a security risk. The Court of Appeal said she should. The Supreme Court now says she shouldn't. She therefore remains in stateless limbo in a refugee camp unable to fight her appeal against it. Apart from on the (understandable) visceral level of "Serves her right, Isis cow" there is little to celebrate here.
    Yes there is, someone who is a security risk to the public has been denied entry to the country. That's worthy of a celebration.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 42,730
    edited February 2021

    Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    The Supreme Court has made the decision and has majority public support


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1365239402885230594?s=19
    70% of the public have common sense and a functioning moral compass, 16% do not.

    That sounds about right.
    People disagreeing with you doesn't mean they necessarily lack a functioning moral compass or common sense.

    You know you can just disagree with someone by saying you disagree with them, rather than claiming they are degenerate morons?
    Except that in this case I do believe that many of the people who want her back here are degenerate morons, and I'm not accustomed to lying about what I think.
    That the matter reached the Supreme Court indicates that it's not a simple decision.

    Your words are just the vulgar abuse of someone whose moral compass is stuck in ancient Athens.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,341

    Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    We have the actions of the Home Secretary here supported by the Supreme Court - a body not backward at coming forward when it thinks Govt. needs putting back in its box.

    That the Supreme Court think this appropriate in this instance should give considerable comfort. This is not an arbitrary action of an arbitrary government. It is an action supported by the highest court in the land.
    Again (again) I am not really attacking the decision. I am questioning whether the supporters of this "remove their citizenship" power would be happy with it being used by their political enemies on people they don't necessarily believe to be deserving of such actions.
    How many political enemies of the Government have had their citizenship removed? Is it zero?
    Begum - the token terrorist for one.
    Wow. Showing your true colours here. You really do hate this country.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 1,729

    malcolmg said:

    Gadfly said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who these committee members are, but they are not coming across very well.

    Salmond trying to demonstrate that Scottish Government is not fit for purpose.
    Some of these committee members exemplify why.

    That diddy Liberal Cole - Hamilton is an absolute disgrace, not one question on the remit of the inquiry. Just wasted time.
    Hands up, I lost my temper’ – Alex Cole-Hamilton apologises after being caught swearing at minister during Scottish Parliament committee meeting
    I support you 100% on that Malc
    Andy Wightman much the most impressive so far. Ironically he's fallen out with Greens over gender issues and will almost certainly not be in the next SP.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 18,309
    malcolmg said:

    The more I listen to this the more I can understand Malc's position on Salmond

    Furthermore, it should concern the wider public in Scotland just how governance is working

    G, more how it is not working but being run by a bunch of crooks.
    A bunch of crooks who until a few months ago you would not hear a word said against Malc!!
  • malcolmg said:

    Gadfly said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who these committee members are, but they are not coming across very well.

    Salmond trying to demonstrate that Scottish Government is not fit for purpose.
    Some of these committee members exemplify why.

    That diddy Liberal Cole - Hamilton is an absolute disgrace, not one question on the remit of the inquiry. Just wasted time.
    Hands up, I lost my temper’ – Alex Cole-Hamilton apologises after being caught swearing at minister during Scottish Parliament committee meeting
    I support you 100% on that Malc
    Andy Wightman much the most impressive so far. Ironically he's fallen out with Greens over gender issues and will almost certainly not be in the next SP.
    Yes I agree
  • I can understand fishermen being upset with the new bureaucracy and hurdles, but I don't get the total dismissal of the significant uplift in their quotas by 25% overall, which we put the whole trade deal on the line for on their behalf.

    It seems some of them genuinely thought they'd get 100% of the fish in all our waters and free rein to sell it on to the EU with no extra hassle whatsoever.

    That was never realistic.

    Lol. Many fishermen have had a cut in their quota. Of the ones with an increase in their quota they now find themselves unable to export the extra fish they can now catch. Which makes catching them uneconomical.

    Do you actually understand how things work in the real world? You see those seas surrounding the UK? Most of the little fishies are types that British people do not eat. They are fish that foreign types like to eat. So we export most of our catch to them, and import the fishies we do like eating which mainly swim in forrin waters.

    Being able to catch more mackrel is fucking useless to a fisherman if he can't sell them for a profit. Nor will Shagger's "eat British fish" campaign persuade us to have Mackrel and Chips.
    I've reviewed the quota tables. There are very few cuts at all on the British side. On your attempt to patronise me on the broader point you might have an argument had I personally claimed it would all be plain sailing, but instead I'd said the naïvety was on the fisherman's side. So null points there mate.

    There are several posters whose analysis of the subject matter stands up to scrutiny. With your repeated hyperbole and transparent agenda you are not one of them, despite your attempts to "appeal to authority" through the fact you sit in on some supermarket powerpoint presentations and then pass on and exaggerate your selected chosen facts.
    lol - I am not and never have claimed to be an authority on fishing. With regards to your patronising dismissal of the real world concerns of the fishing industry I note that you entirely evade the key point. A bigger quota - your proposed prize - is useless if you can't sell the fish.

    A policy disaster for which you now blame the fishermen. My transparent agenda is for the UK to be a global trading nation. What is your transparent agenda when you blame the industry their naivety in expecting a "we're fighting for fishing" government in not utterly knackering them.
    I'm not dismissing it, dipshit. Read my original post again - and again - until you understand it.

    I've said on here time and time again we need a LPF arrangement on SPS standards, and specific negotiations to facilitate fresh fish and meat export. Would that get rid of all bureaucracy? No, but with increased quotas and easier clearance it would allow for more sustainable and viable businesses.

    You are just obsessed with being seen to bash your simple-minded Brexiteer stereotype so you keep putting up strawmen to do it. You feel the right to wade in and lecture anyone on that basis who dares to opine on food supply chains, and you do so in an extremely condescending way.

    Engage with me with respect as an individual, or fuck off.
    Blimey. Your literal words were "I can understand fishermen being upset with the new bureaucracy and hurdles, but I don't get the total dismissal of the significant uplift in their quotas by 25% overall, which we put the whole trade deal on the line for on their behalf.

    It seems some of them genuinely thought they'd get 100% of the fish in all our waters and free rein to sell it on to the EU with no extra hassle whatsoever."

    Is that not dismissal of their plight? And blaming them for it? I will take your opinions on condescension and going forth to multiply under advisement.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,327

    I've seen this time and time again: Harry, Chris Martin, my best mate's brother, who got hitched to a Californian girl...

    Is there something about being a British man that marries an American woman that turns you into a twat?

    [Edit: shit, forgot the deputy Ed..😬 ]

    Oy! Are you calling me a twat???
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited February 2021
    Nigelb said:

    Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    The Supreme Court has made the decision and has majority public support


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1365239402885230594?s=19
    70% of the public have common sense and a functioning moral compass, 16% do not.

    That sounds about right.
    People disagreeing with you doesn't mean they necessarily lack a functioning moral compass or common sense.

    You know you can just disagree with someone by saying you disagree with them, rather than claiming they are degenerate morons?
    Except that in this case I do believe that many of the people who want her back here are degenerate morons, and I'm not accustomed to lying about what I think.
    That the matter reached the Supreme Court indicates that it's not a simple decision.

    Your words are just the vulgar abuse of someone whose moral compass is stuck in ancient Athens.
    Thank you for proving my point so concisely.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,262
    tlg86 said:

    I don't know who these committee members are, but they are not coming across very well.

    Cole Hamilton LD was pretty crap.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 30,520
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    It's a huge judgment and sets the basis that any individual right can't override public safety issues with terrorism where there is specific evidence that a person will be a risk to public safety.

    It's a huge win for the government and the nation. That you're upset about it is probably a fairly good sign that it's the right decision. All we need now is for the fox killing lawyer to pipe up about how awful it is and we'll know for sure.
    I'm not upset about it. I don't have her on a tee shirt, I assure you. But neither am I celebrating the government being willing & able to exile a vulnerable young woman in order to tickle up lowest common denominator tabloid sentiment.
    She isn’t a ‘vulnerable young woman’, she’s a terrorist who recruited other terrorists.
    Only in mono are these things mutually exclusive.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,262
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    Shamina Begum denied right of return to the UK by the Supreme Court. Huge victory for the government.

    They declared her a national security risk to secure the desired verdict. She's now caught in Kafka limbo. Cannot enter the UK so cannot fight her exile from the UK. By all means cheer the outcome but it's no great vindication of the government.
    I find it hard to sympathise with someone whose apparent regret was her personal circumstances. Rather than the enslaved women she helped enslave, for example.

    Her interviews reminded me of Ezra Pound - whining that it was really unfair that he was treated like a person who had done something wrong.
    Was the whining Ezra Pound a 21 year old girl who had lost 3 young children?
    They are both adults who have/had moral agency. Or are you being sexist and ageist?
    Having moral agency does not preclude sympathy or render personal circumstances irrelevant. You made a poor comparison.
    No - both have equal moral value.

    The whole "but *this* one has a cute life story" thing is irrelevant.
    That she was groomed as a child and succumbed to extremism at the age of 15.
    That there is no proof of direct involvement in atrocities.
    That she has lost 3 young children by the age of 21.
    That she has been stripped of citizenship and left stateless in a refugee camp.
    That she is prevented from even appealing this through government assertion of security risk.

    These things are only irrelevant if you are the sort of person whose faculties shut down on seeing the word "Isis".
    The Supreme Court must bow to the better judgement of an obscure left-winger on the internet.........
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,036
    edited February 2021

    Again on Ms Begum, I note the howls of pack outrage at her actions. Can I once again ask if the people cheering her removal as a citizen are happy for the existence of such powers to sit with potential Home Secretaries such as Diane Abbott? For her to remove citizenship from whomever the pack are howling about at that time?

    Begum's crimes should prompt a simple process called "justice". That she cannot be brought to justice is surely a Bad Thing.

    The Supreme Court has made the decision and has majority public support


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1365239402885230594?s=19
    70% of the public have common sense and a functioning moral compass, 16% do not.

    That sounds about right.
    Well, there must be quite a lot of Labour supporting woke lefties in that 70%, so unusually for you you're recognising that they too must have a moral compass.

    On the issue, whatever one thinks, I'm not sure the decision on Begum is "fantastic news", as someone said earlier. Even if one agrees with the decision, I don't see any cause for celebration over what is a sad tale from start to finish.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    edited February 2021

    malcolmg said:

    The more I listen to this the more I can understand Malc's position on Salmond

    Furthermore, it should concern the wider public in Scotland just how governance is working

    G, more how it is not working but being run by a bunch of crooks.
    A bunch of crooks who until a few months ago you would not hear a word said against Malc!!
    Lucky, As I have said many times I am for Independence not SNP. I have criticised Sturgeon many times and was told this would be outcome long ago from a Tory with connections and found it hard to believe but it has come true.
    PS: Most unfortunately you need politicians to get independence, though I am now of opinion that it will not be current SNP that will ever go for independence. Need massive clear out at the top as it is full of troughers , wokes, self-ider's and general no users.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 71,746

    I don't agree with stripping of citizenship, it is a bad and dangerous power. There should be a legal process so that she is tried and subject to a long jail sentence if found guilty. A modern treason act should be introduced as it would have been easy to prove in this case and would cover us for future cases but obviously can't be retroactive. One problem the government would face on her return would be acquiring witness statements and evidence.

    There has been a legal process, it's gone to the highest court in the land and they've found for the Gov't's decision.
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