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Rishi still betting favourite to succeed Boris but Keir not far behind – politicalbetting.com

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  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939

    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:
    Yes, quite a useful, neutral summary. It will be ironic that Salmond kills off Scottish independence by discrediting the government.

    Both lays.

    I agree. On the Labour side I am backing Angela, Lisa and Rosena, on the Tory side Liz and Priti. All good value imo.
    It will not kill independence, the SNP are not the YES votes. They will need to clear out the wrong un's , sort themselves out and get back to their real purpose or they will be in the bin.
    Morning, malcy. Good to see you back. Trust you and the good Lady are both fine?

    For what it's worth, I see parallels between Sturgeon's brass neck in toughing it out when (on any objective assessment) she has been caught out lying such that she has to resign, and the SNP's brass neck in refusing to admit that there were big holes in the case for independence that needed addressing before you win over the required majority for Yes.

    What big holes?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    'Apple invents time travel, uses it to make slightly better selling fondleslabs' is still not the weirdest conspiracy theory I've heard.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Anyway....it is a heavenly Devon spring morning, the warm sun in a cloudless sky is burning the frost away and the garden is more appealling even than wittering away the day with you lot.

    Laters... (probably about 12.30, I'm thinking!)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Pulpstar said:

    Looking at requirements for second doses, there is a simple target of 445,700 jabs per day to hit the end of July all adults target (1st doses & 2nd doses delayed)

    Which is why I reckon they have been trying to pull some of the second doses forward, using up the already stockpiled Pfizer and spreading the impending peak of second appointments that risks dramatically slowing progress of vaccination through the aged 60s and 50s.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Loss of taste and smell in the 1889-90 pandemic...we may have been here before




  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    Basically, they have realised you do not mete out punishment beatings to the British Lion.

    Vaccines have been an extraordinary eye-opener for the EU that the UK is still a serious player. They were idiots to have thought otherwise.
    Yes to some degree it will have been because all of the other regional players conduct their business via a lot of EU based structures or have some level of dependency on the EU. The UK is the first globally relevant regional competitor it has that doesn't depend on the EU at all.

    I think there was a delusion within the commission that third countries would continue to conduct business with the UK via some EU mechanism or would consult the EU first before doing anything with the UK because they see themselves as the region's major power. Obviously that hasn't happened and now they're panicking to try and bring the UK back into the tent. Adding things like mutual recognition on services and agricultural standards into the treaty would hugely increase its value to the UK and make us much less likely to diverge but I'm not sure the EU has that kind of foresight.
  • Foss said:

    'Apple invents time travel, uses it to make slightly better selling fondleslabs' is still not the weirdest conspiracy theory I've heard.
    If Apple had invented time travel then Steve Jobs would still be with us.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,693
    DougSeal said:

    Loss of taste and smell in the 1889-90 pandemic...we may have been here before

    Very interesting. There's an established theory that that pandemic was caused by a coronavirus.
    https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1268916865277050883
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    The biggest fear will be if the EU no longer looks like the future.
    Yes, and for the UK it's already started. The UK is showing that you don't really need the EU to succeed. That's why they've realised they need to bring us back into the tent somehow.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    Now we have the personal rule of Xi alone. I think this necessarily leads to a more paranoid governing style and the lack of self-confidence you identify.

    I think Xi is completely fucked in the head as a result of his childhood experiences.
  • Foss said:

    'Apple invents time travel, uses it to make slightly better selling fondleslabs' is still not the weirdest conspiracy theory I've heard.
    If Apple had invented time travel then Steve Jobs would still be with us.
    He is. They just sent him back to 2004 to invent the iPhone and the iPad. Shortly all of our memories will change as gets back to 1985 and creates a windows type AI for his past self.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Tin ears, part of an ongoing series.

    As the tweeter suggests, doesn’t multilateral disarmament, the policy to which various UK governments have at least paid lip service, precisely involve negotiation?

    https://twitter.com/tom_gann/status/1365076108622893059?s=21

    Depressing that Labour leaders think they have to become Tories to gain power. In Starmer's case if only he knew it not being Corbyn would have been enough.

    ....And think how much he could have saved on flags.
    I think this is the sort of bollocks that boosts the Green vote. Trident is part of an obsolete cold war that ended 30 years ago and should be scrapped.

    Reasons to turn out for Labour get fewer every week.
    Out of curiosity, would you be comfortable with the USA and France getting rid of their nukes as well?
    The French being nuclear armed is of course the main reason we must have them. 2000 years of history demonstrates that we should never trust the perfidious French.
    US and French nuclear weapons are questions for their own peoples, but I regard SSBN and ICBM missiles as obsolete parts of the Cold War.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
  • Why Liz Truss? When she starts signing new trade deals then maybe...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939

    theProle said:

    The problem with paying the "poor" ever increasing amounts of benefits to be "poor" is that it makes it ever harder for employers to complete with benefits sufficiently to attract some of these people into work.

    And the problem with government "investment" is that very often it is nothing of the sort, at least in financial terms - a lot of the things governments are pressured to "invest" in either generate no return at-all (e. g. shiny new school buildings), or less return than other more normal things (e.g. railway electrification has a payback time of decades if ever).

    Decades is the timescale we need to be focused on. It is a simple observable reality that the UK has fallen significantly behind competitor countries on infrastructure. We are overly reliant on foreign energy (and a foreign high-dubious government to build a nuclear solution), have ludicrously low-capacity roads in large parts of the country, have a railway system that is both slow and desperately trying to dodge the electrification bullet, have too many old and crumbling schools and hospitals where we spend £lots yet see little on the front line thanks to marketisation.

    As for "benefits" the first thing we do id go back to the 80s and call it social security. It isn't a "benefit" that people are "entitled" to. It is security from the 5 ills. And never mind the outrageous abuses of people not in work by UC, look at the outrageous abuses of people in work.

    Some employers and the political class led by the Tories want an underclass they can exploit - the jobbing economy of people who will never be comfortable no matter how hard they work. Moving back to a Rowntree / Level / Ford model must be the goal. A radical concept where employees have sufficient wages and protections as to enable them to afford to consume the stuff their produce.

    This used to be called capitalism. We let it die and replaced it with bankism where instead of paying people wages enabling them to consume, you instead make money giving them Ocean Finance / Wonga style credit. Very profitable for the brief period before it collapses, utterly unsustainable.
    We need Government - all parties - to look at the long term, 20 or 30 years, not just to what will get them elected next time. Sorting out tax, social care and infrastructure can’t
    be done in the timescales that we have been working to. The minimum requirement would be to appoint panels of independent, impartial experts to deal with these issues separate from day to day government. They would firstly need to produce realistic, costed plans. The Government’s role will be to fund them. Grown up parties would agree realistic budgets and, once agreed, let the panels of experts to get on with it. The politicians can then get back to arguing over minutiae, which is what they are best at.
  • MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    The biggest fear will be if the EU no longer looks like the future.
    For Britain, it already doesn't look like it.

    The transformation in outlook in two months is quite remarkable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Floater said:
    I would be more concerned about human rights within China than with its territorial obsessions with some relatively small, in global terms, bits of real estate such as these islands.

    The risk we all face is that an objective assessment of the threats that China might pose is going to get mixed up with the opening chapters of the impending American psychodrama - as they begin to face the possibility that their role as the planet's (sole) dominant economy might be coming to an end. Since we Brits have been working through own own equivalent trauma for more than seventy years, this is going to take a lot of time to play out.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    Shame he hasn't read the article - as it only covers those hitting the life time allowance.
  • Is a nanopatticle a very tiny burger?

    I could understand why that would be depressing. I'd rather get an uberpatticle.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited February 2021
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Tin ears, part of an ongoing series.

    As the tweeter suggests, doesn’t multilateral disarmament, the policy to which various UK governments have at least paid lip service, precisely involve negotiation?

    https://twitter.com/tom_gann/status/1365076108622893059?s=21

    Depressing that Labour leaders think they have to become Tories to gain power. In Starmer's case if only he knew it not being Corbyn would have been enough.

    ....And think how much he could have saved on flags.
    I think this is the sort of bollocks that boosts the Green vote. Trident is part of an obsolete cold war that ended 30 years ago and should be scrapped.

    Reasons to turn out for Labour get fewer every week.
    Out of curiosity, would you be comfortable with the USA and France getting rid of their nukes as well?
    The French being nuclear armed is of course the main reason we must have them. 2000 years of history demonstrates that we should never trust the perfidious French.
    US and French nuclear weapons are questions for their own peoples, but I regard SSBN and ICBM missiles as obsolete parts of the Cold War.
    It’s unfortunate that neither Russia nor China share that view. And Iran and NK soon won’t either. We live in a world where you either have a deterrent or you can be bullied by those that do (yes, that’s paradoxically also why Iran and NO want one). It’s a sad fact of life that we therefore need a deterrent*.

    *And to preempt anyone who doesn’t understand the system, our deterrent doesn’t use launch codes, isn’t reliant on GPS, and is completely operationally independent of the USA.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    The biggest fear will be if the EU no longer looks like the future.
    Yes, and for the UK it's already started. The UK is showing that you don't really need the EU to succeed. That's why they've realised they need to bring us back into the tent somehow.
    There seems to be a state of complete and utter shock that we haven't gone running back to them begging for forgiveness and supplication.

    Seriously what were they expecting?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Roger said:
    With so many of these conspiracies there is either a smoking gun or a smoking turd - either way it is wise to do the sniff test.

    I can believe many things in politics. But the fundamental accusation is that 9 women perjured themselves to lie in court motivated by a conspiracy to bring down one of their own politicians.

    I smell poo rather than cordite.
    Could be a middle ground? That they didn't perjury themselves but political figures manipulated them and the system to try to take him down?

    IDK, it does require a lot, and how to prove that? Dates of what heard when being inconsistent isn't likely to sway masses on it's own.
    Actually, the middle ground is that the women were telling the truth, albeit that the conduct complained of was judged to be boorish rather than criminal, and that Sturgeon had up until that point been manipulating events to try and hush it up either because she didn’t believe the women out of fear it would damage the SNP.

    Which would explain both why she is so furious with Salmond now, and why she seems to have suffered mysterious memory loss about key events.

    Teaching beckons. Have a good morning.
    Knowing Sturgeon, she would have wanted to believe the women.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    The biggest fear will be if the EU no longer looks like the future.
    For Britain, it already doesn't look like it.

    The transformation in outlook in two months is quite remarkable.
    What this does change is how much the EU and its useful idiots will ramp up any king of punishment beatings. The lack of ability of the EU to bind us to anything really is probably their biggest error in the deal. As I said at the time I was genuinely shocked that we ended up with a very, very watered down LPF and they signed it off. This is the result of that decision for them to give us a route of managed divergence and no real ability to anything about it.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    The biggest fear will be if the EU no longer looks like the future.
    Yes, and for the UK it's already started. The UK is showing that you don't really need the EU to succeed. That's why they've realised they need to bring us back into the tent somehow.
    It’s too early to tell really, but it already feels like future history books will note that if you’re going to leave the EU in a disruptive way, then doing it under the cover of a pandemic is a lucky move.
  • Mr. Pioneers, hasn't some polling shown Truss to be rated very highly among Conservatives? I have vague memories of having seen that.
  • MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    I think it's more likely that Irish diplomats have been lobbying within the EU for something to be done about the disastrous impact of Boris's NI protocol. It's probably no coincidence that this story originates from RTE.
  • DougSeal said:

    Loss of taste and smell in the 1889-90 pandemic...we may have been here before

    Very interesting. There's an established theory that that pandemic was caused by a coronavirus.
    https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1268916865277050883
    I wouldn't get too excited:-

    "I burnt me bit of dinner
    Cause I've lost me sense of smell,
    But then, I couldn't taste it,
    So that worked out very well."

    Pam Ayres - Oh No I Got a Cold.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    The biggest fear will be if the EU no longer looks like the future.
    For Britain, it already doesn't look like it.

    The transformation in outlook in two months is quite remarkable.
    What this does change is how much the EU and its useful idiots will ramp up any king of punishment beatings. The lack of ability of the EU to bind us to anything really is probably their biggest error in the deal. As I said at the time I was genuinely shocked that we ended up with a very, very watered down LPF and they signed it off. This is the result of that decision for them to give us a route of managed divergence and no real ability to anything about it.
    Indeed. Frost did a great job in the negotiations and the difference between Boris/Frost and May/Robbins is incredible.

    There is no way May/Robbins would have got that LPF agreed. Boris bringing Frost into the Cabinet to deal with Europe on an ongoing basis is a very good idea.


  • There seems to be a state of complete and utter shock that we haven't gone running back to them begging for forgiveness and supplication.

    Seriously what were they expecting?

    Eh? We've already, after just a few weeks, gone back begging for derogations and extensions to the grace periods.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Dura_Ace said:



    Now we have the personal rule of Xi alone. I think this necessarily leads to a more paranoid governing style and the lack of self-confidence you identify.

    I think Xi is completely fucked in the head as a result of his childhood experiences.
    There is a bonkers series on BBC (look away license fee non-payers) called Can't Get You Out of My Head which is attempting (I think, I'm on S1:E1) to knit all the global psycho-social factors together to work out what the world looks like today. They are currently on the Cultural Revolution.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    edited February 2021

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    The biggest fear will be if the EU no longer looks like the future.
    Yes, and for the UK it's already started. The UK is showing that you don't really need the EU to succeed. That's why they've realised they need to bring us back into the tent somehow.
    There seems to be a state of complete and utter shock that we haven't gone running back to them begging for forgiveness and supplication.

    Seriously what were they expecting?
    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.

    Their initial response to the vaccine fiasco spelled it our nicely with the first reaction to the UK going it alone talking about solidarity being important and that the UK needed to show solidarity or decide whether it was a real or half friend and all that stuff.

    As I said, he EU making the trade agreement hold such low value for the UK isn't to their benefit as trade isn't a zero sum game. If it doesn't benefit the UK in the long term the government will either renegotiate it to add things to make it beneficial or they will shit can it. Unless the EU adds services and agricultural mutual recognition then I could really see the 2026 review water the existing deal down even further.
  • MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    I think it's more likely that Irish diplomats have been lobbying within the EU for something to be done about the disastrous impact of Boris's NI protocol. It's probably no coincidence that this story originates from RTE.
    Very good negotiations by Boris and Frost if it is the Irish who are wanting it changed. 👍

    The origins of the Protocol and its predecessors came from the Irish government so if the UK have managed to negotiate a deal the Irish are unhappy with that's a good thing. Allows us to reopen the Protocol and deal with it as it should have been dealt with all along - via a fudge factory.

    And since we're no longer "desperate" for a trade deal we have no reason to give in like Robbins and May always did when negotiating over Ireland.


  • There seems to be a state of complete and utter shock that we haven't gone running back to them begging for forgiveness and supplication.

    Seriously what were they expecting?

    Eh? We've already, after just a few weeks, gone back begging for derogations and extensions to the grace periods.
    Not begging, negotiating - and from a position of strength not weakness.

    And you've just said we've got the Irish on board for wanting changes too.

    Game, set and match really - fantastic job by the government to have achieved that.
  • Naomi Wolf was a Rhodes Scholar at New College, Oxford, nuff said.

    I do have a friend who is convinced Apple engages in mind control, it started via the iPod which sent waves to your brain to buy even more expensive stuff from Apple.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    andypetuk said:

    DougSeal said:

    Loss of taste and smell in the 1889-90 pandemic...we may have been here before

    Very interesting. There's an established theory that that pandemic was caused by a coronavirus.
    https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1268916865277050883
    I wouldn't get too excited:-

    "I burnt me bit of dinner
    Cause I've lost me sense of smell,
    But then, I couldn't taste it,
    So that worked out very well."

    Pam Ayres - Oh No I Got a Cold.
    Haha, there's not enough Pam Ayre's quoted on here.
  • MaxPB said:



    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.
    ..
    .

    Of course they did. No-one in the EU, or indeed anywhere else in the world, expected the UK to be so utterly irrational as to impose economic sanctions on itself, severely damaging multiple industries and even driving business away from its world-beating financial service sector, or to insist on maximum regulatory divergence between one part of the UK and another.

    The scale of the disastrous course Boris has taken is breath-taking, even if at the moment it's hidden under the pandemic.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823

    Naomi Wolf was a Rhodes Scholar at New College, Oxford, nuff said.

    I do have a friend who is convinced Apple engages in mind control, it started via the iPod which sent waves to your brain to buy even more expensive stuff from Apple.
    To be honest, that's the most plausible explanation I can think of for the keenness of Apple's fans to spend increasing amounts of money on it. :-)

    Surely - surely - Naomi Wolf is being sarcastic in some way? Surely she isn't serious?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't think there's any middle ground when it comes to an allegation of attempted rape.

    Although, just to be clear, the not guilty verdict does not imply guilt on the accuser. But Sturgeon's comments the other day were completely out of order.
    Given the evidence under oath from witness who was THERE that the accuser was NOT actually in the building that night? Not signed in , no CCT footage etc.? Methinks if Crown had even a smidgin of evidence they would have contested that.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2021
    deleted
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:



    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.
    ..
    .

    Of course they did. No-one in the EU, or indeed anywhere else in the world, expected the UK to be so utterly irrational as to impose economic sanctions on itself, severely damaging multiple industries and even driving business away from its world-beating financial service sector, or to insist on maximum regulatory divergence between one part of the UK and another.

    The scale of the disastrous course Boris has taken is breath-taking, even if at the moment it's hidden under the pandemic.
    Honestly, you've got probably the worst case of Stockholm syndrome other than Philip Hammond.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    Smithers said:

    The vaccine clusterfuck is not the first example of the myth of German efficiency.

    If you want to know what a shambles the country has become in recent years then dig a little deeper into the sheer fiasco surrounding Berlin’s Brandenberg airport. This podcast “How to Fuck Up an Airport” will serve as a good guide:

    https://www.radiospaetkauf.com/ber/

    Brandenberg airport is going to be a case study in engineering and architectural screwups for decades to come, as well as being a poster child for the failure of public and private sectors to work efficiently together.

    It would have been cheaper and faster - if politically embarrassing - to have knocked the whole damn thing down in 2011, and started again from a hole in the ground.
    True, but at least they built something eventually, unlike us, who haven't built a new runway in or near London for decades (except the small City Airport).
    How long before you think we need a new runway, post-pandemic?
    There hasn't been a new runway built in the UK since WW2. This won't change in my lifetime.
    Bollocks:

    https://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/about-us/manchester-airport-and-mag/history/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,710
    Why would conspirators falsify evidence and get multiple women to tell their tales in court, when by 2017 Salmond was already discredited, and without position other than RT pundit?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    I think it has dawned on the EU that the UK is now looking towards APAC and outside of the EU the UK has fallen back on old alliances that threaten to turn the UK into a gigantic regional competitor for them.

    Worse still is that the UK-EU relationship loses value over time. The way the EU have insisted on it being structured means that it's value is diluted by every divergence in a pretty manageable way for UK companies. In their desire to try and keep the UK as close as possible they handed the UK government a mechanism to slowly diverge with little to no consequence. Every tariff that is added devalues the overall deal and without services or easy agricultural trade there are already questions about whether it's truly worth the hassle.

    I think the major worry in Brussels is that by the time 2026 rolls around, the Tories will still be in power, EU trade will have fallen significantly as a portion of UK exports to ca. 20% and there will be calls for the UK to renegotiate the existing deal to either include long term mutual recognition on services and food standards or to junk the whole thing and move to some kind of barebones trade only deal and pull out of everything else.

    I'm a lowly analyst and I can see it already. The EU needs to act now to keep the UK happy or the 2026 review could end up seeing further deterioration in the Treaty based relationship matching the real world deterioration since the start of this year.
    The biggest fear will be if the EU no longer looks like the future.
    Yes, and for the UK it's already started. The UK is showing that you don't really need the EU to succeed. That's why they've realised they need to bring us back into the tent somehow.
    There seems to be a state of complete and utter shock that we haven't gone running back to them begging for forgiveness and supplication.

    Seriously what were they expecting?
    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.

    Their initial response to the vaccine fiasco spelled it our nicely with the first reaction to the UK going it alone talking about solidarity being important and that the UK needed to show solidarity or decide whether it was a real or half friend and all that stuff.

    As I said, he EU making the trade agreement hold such low value for the UK isn't to their benefit as trade isn't a zero sum game. If it doesn't benefit the UK in the long term the government will either renegotiate it to add things to make it beneficial or they will shit can it. Unless the EU adds services and agricultural mutual recognition then I could really see the 2026 review water the existing deal down even further.
    An Australia friend said something about the CPTPP - a rumour he'd heard, which is a a bit startling, if true.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350

    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:
    Yes, quite a useful, neutral summary. It will be ironic that Salmond kills off Scottish independence by discrediting the government.

    Both lays.

    I agree. On the Labour side I am backing Angela, Lisa and Rosena, on the Tory side Liz and Priti. All good value imo.
    It will not kill independence, the SNP are not the YES votes. They will need to clear out the wrong un's , sort themselves out and get back to their real purpose or they will be in the bin.
    Morning, malcy. Good to see you back. Trust you and the good Lady are both fine?

    For what it's worth, I see parallels between Sturgeon's brass neck in toughing it out when (on any objective assessment) she has been caught out lying such that she has to resign, and the SNP's brass neck in refusing to admit that there were big holes in the case for independence that needed addressing before you win over the required majority for Yes.

    What big holes?
    @MarqueeMark

    Mark same holes as the Brexit case, SNP case was not about the money.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    malcolmg said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't think there's any middle ground when it comes to an allegation of attempted rape.

    Although, just to be clear, the not guilty verdict does not imply guilt on the accuser. But Sturgeon's comments the other day were completely out of order.
    Given the evidence under oath from witness who was THERE that the accuser was NOT actually in the building that night? Not signed in , no CCT footage etc.? Methinks if Crown had even a smidgin of evidence they would have contested that.
    If that's the case, then that really does not sound good.
  • Mr. Pioneers, hasn't some polling shown Truss to be rated very highly among Conservatives? I have vague memories of having seen that.

    I think you are correct. My point was to query why, and its revealing about the intelligence of Tory MPs.

    Truss has signed a load of trade deals. These deals aren't new deals, they are continuation deals allowing us to continue to enjoy the benefits of the previous 3rd country - EU deals. The "triumph" of signing these deals is what makes her popular yet the deals she is signing is the deal the EU negotiated...
  • Cookie said:

    Naomi Wolf was a Rhodes Scholar at New College, Oxford, nuff said.

    I do have a friend who is convinced Apple engages in mind control, it started via the iPod which sent waves to your brain to buy even more expensive stuff from Apple.
    To be honest, that's the most plausible explanation I can think of for the keenness of Apple's fans to spend increasing amounts of money on it. :-)

    Surely - surely - Naomi Wolf is being sarcastic in some way? Surely she isn't serious?
    That’s your iPhone talking. Proof, if proof were needed, of how right she is.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
  • MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    So how come it used to be a lot smaller?
    The Chinese themselves dispute that.

    You may find this article of interest:

    http://www.martinjacques.com/articles/civilization-state-versus-nation-state-2/
    Bring back the Angevin Empire :-) .

    I watched a really interesting 6-part Youtube series about the Opium Wars by Mark Fenton recently. It was after my history tuition at school stopped.

    Historia enough to be comprehensible. Opinionated enough to be thought-provoking.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4heo4SObOM
    The Opium Wars were the real HIGH of the British Empire.
    At least that was just to sell opium.

    The American medical profession today still prescribe it.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
    You’re forgetting that most of that still happens as an ex-President. Even the title. It’s just that you can do it all from Florida.
  • The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    This is very welcome news, if true. Nothing else to say other than that. Very welcome.

    As my profile picture shows I want constructive win-win relations between the UK and EU, long-term, that respect the position of each party, with neither trying to dick the other for political reasons.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,350

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Roger said:
    With so many of these conspiracies there is either a smoking gun or a smoking turd - either way it is wise to do the sniff test.

    I can believe many things in politics. But the fundamental accusation is that 9 women perjured themselves to lie in court motivated by a conspiracy to bring down one of their own politicians.

    I smell poo rather than cordite.
    Could be a middle ground? That they didn't perjury themselves but political figures manipulated them and the system to try to take him down?

    IDK, it does require a lot, and how to prove that? Dates of what heard when being inconsistent isn't likely to sway masses on it's own.
    Actually, the middle ground is that the women were telling the truth, albeit that the conduct complained of was judged to be boorish rather than criminal, and that Sturgeon had up until that point been manipulating events to try and hush it up either because she didn’t believe the women out of fear it would damage the SNP.

    Which would explain both why she is so furious with Salmond now, and why she seems to have suffered mysterious memory loss about key events.

    Teaching beckons. Have a good morning.
    Knowing Sturgeon, she would have wanted to believe the women.
    @ydoethur
    Except many witnesses swore on oath it was bollox lies. She was hushing up the fact she was behind the whole misguided shambles they used to try and get him, and the judicial review. You ought to read the facts rather than speculate incorrectly.
  • DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    The Chinese regard themselves as never having been conquered by anyone, though they have suffered from numerous civil wars. By this logic, Genghis Khan was Chinese (indeed I saw him listed as an emperor of China in a list on sale in the gift shop at the Forbidden City).
    So anything that he had in his empire must actually be part of China...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    The Chinese regard themselves as never having been conquered by anyone, though they have suffered from numerous civil wars. By this logic, Genghis Khan was Chinese (indeed I saw him listed as an emperor of China in a list on sale in the gift shop at the Forbidden City).
    So anything that he had in his empire must actually be part of China...
    Thankfully he died prior to overrunning Europe then.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited February 2021

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    The Chinese regard themselves as never having been conquered by anyone, though they have suffered from numerous civil wars. By this logic, Genghis Khan was Chinese (indeed I saw him listed as an emperor of China in a list on sale in the gift shop at the Forbidden City).
    So anything that he had in his empire must actually be part of China...
    Hard for us to criticise given our national blind spot on the “Glorious Revolution”.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,237

    I know there is an argument that 'now is not the time' but I really want Sunak to be radical here and show he is taking the finances seriously.

    Increase corporation tax to 23%. Still the lowest in Europe so the arguments about putting off overseas investment really shouldn't hold water.
    Increase Capital Gains tax on unearned income. 10% is way too low compared to earned income tax.
    Remove the age limit on NI contributions. If you are still working after retirement age then you should continue to pay NI just like everyone else.

    Look at converting all the current road/fuel taxes to a pay per mile which will be applicable to all cars whatever their motive system. It has to happen soon anyway otherwise the loss of tax income from electric cars will be crippling.

    Set up an independent commission to look at tax reform including merging NI and Income tax. And perhaps equalising capital gains tax and other taxes all at the same rate as the new combined tax. At the same time the commission should look at the overall tax burden and where reductions can and should be made.

    Personally I think now IS the time. He has an excuse for radical changes and should not let things slip back to 'business as usual'.

    I think it needs to be more radical than that, and now is the perfect time to start long term reform - it is in such chaos that it is difficult to find reasons to complain.

    I expect instant CGT changes to avoid 1988 style Mortgage Interest Change chaos.

    Don't like per mile Road Tax - too interfering. I'd go for a steepish fuel tax escalator after an initial jump now. We are getting used to working from home, so let's encourage it.

    The Proportional Property Tax still looks incredibly sensible. AFAICS it benefits a significant majority nearly everywhere. Politically, will help Boris keep the Red Wall.

    Full VAT on energy bills. Won't happen, unfortunately.

    Set GHG on a long term footing.

    EPC escalator for owner-occupied properties.

    Triple Lock should go.

    Start the process of getting rid main dwelling CGT exemption.

    I think Entrepreneur's Relief will be reformed.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    This is very welcome news, if true. Nothing else to say other than that. Very welcome.

    As my profile picture shows I want constructive win-win relations between the UK and EU, long-term, that respect the position of each party, with neither trying to dick the other for political reasons.
    Let's wait and see what it is first. It's probably just going to be a repackaging of the LPF that we completely rejected. I actually think that's why Frost was brought in to handle all of this so the fifth columnists in the civil service don't try and sign us up to everything we've already rejected.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
    All this just proves the point that the best thing for America would've been to create a Truman Show-style alternative reality for the mad old bastard. Plus it would combine his other love of reality TV with great ratings, albeit he wouldn't know it.

    I don't think he'll run, though. He'll probably tease all the way to the line, as his influence depends on the fear he'll go again. But he was very personally hurt by defeat and ego preservation means he probably won't risk in the end - if a proxy or other GOPer loses then that's great for him, as he gets to say "of course, I'd have won".
  • MaxPB said:

    The EU is suddenly afraid of deteriorating relations with the UK.
    https://twitter.com/tconnellyrte/status/1365184523923820544?s=21

    This is very welcome news, if true. Nothing else to say other than that. Very welcome.

    As my profile picture shows I want constructive win-win relations between the UK and EU, long-term, that respect the position of each party, with neither trying to dick the other for political reasons.
    Let's wait and see what it is first. It's probably just going to be a repackaging of the LPF that we completely rejected. I actually think that's why Frost was brought in to handle all of this so the fifth columnists in the civil service don't try and sign us up to everything we've already rejected.
    Reference to fifth columnists = zero credibility.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.
    ..
    .

    Of course they did. No-one in the EU, or indeed anywhere else in the world, expected the UK to be so utterly irrational as to impose economic sanctions on itself, severely damaging multiple industries and even driving business away from its world-beating financial service sector, or to insist on maximum regulatory divergence between one part of the UK and another.

    The scale of the disastrous course Boris has taken is breath-taking, even if at the moment it's hidden under the pandemic.
    Honestly, you've got probably the worst case of Stockholm syndrome other than Philip Hammond.
    I'm just looking the facts. Fishing industry - completed stuffed. Any small business importing or exporting - massively damaged. Musicians, theatre touring, fashion industry, au-pair agencies - torpedoed out of sheer ideological spite, for absolutely no rational reason whatsoever. Euro-denominated trading - leaching out of the City. Daffodil producers - clobbered. The border in the Irish Sea - catastrophic. Lamb exporters - massive extra costs and hassle. Computer systems: not written yet. Trucks going back empty because the hassle and cost of the paperwork is disproportionate. The list is endless, and there's much more to come (we haven't even started customs checks our end, and the grace periods on the EU side will come to end).

    The mental gymnastics Brexiteers go through to persuade themselves that this is what Vote Leave promised, and what they expected back in 2016, is a wonder to behold. The most hilarious bit of it is the bizarre claim that putting up massive trade barriers (even within its own borders!) shows that the UK is a champion of free trade. Was there ever a greater cognitive dissonance?
    And yet thousands of EU based institutions are opening up UK branch offices to ensure they don't lose access to London's markets should the EU decide against equivalence. I'm not sure how much value the rest actually has and the special pleading from certain industries that have always been anti-brexit isn't a huge surprise. Fishing is a really big who gives a shit 0.01% of GDP industry. I've not read the complaints from fashion, would be interested to see what the complaints are if you have any links.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
    All this just proves the point that the best thing for America would've been to create a Truman Show-style alternative reality for the mad old bastard. Plus it would combine his other love of reality TV with great ratings, albeit he wouldn't know it.

    I don't think he'll run, though. He'll probably tease all the way to the line, as his influence depends on the fear he'll go again. But he was very personally hurt by defeat and ego preservation means he probably won't risk in the end - if a proxy or other GOPer loses then that's great for him, as he gets to say "of course, I'd have won".
    We’re back to Trump TV. Each Republican candidate competes for his support in a series of TV specials borrowing the set dressing from the Apprentice.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,376

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    The Chinese regard themselves as never having been conquered by anyone, though they have suffered from numerous civil wars. By this logic, Genghis Khan was Chinese (indeed I saw him listed as an emperor of China in a list on sale in the gift shop at the Forbidden City).
    So anything that he had in his empire must actually be part of China...
    John Man writes interestingly about that in his biography of Genghis Khan. They argue that the Yuan were a Chinese dynasty, he founded that dynasty, therefore he was Chinese, which also legitimises their rule over Outer Mongolia.

    China has suffered some horrendous civil wars. The An Lushan revolt probably killed 7% of the world's population on its own.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.
    ..
    .

    Of course they did. No-one in the EU, or indeed anywhere else in the world, expected the UK to be so utterly irrational as to impose economic sanctions on itself, severely damaging multiple industries and even driving business away from its world-beating financial service sector, or to insist on maximum regulatory divergence between one part of the UK and another.

    The scale of the disastrous course Boris has taken is breath-taking, even if at the moment it's hidden under the pandemic.
    Honestly, you've got probably the worst case of Stockholm syndrome other than Philip Hammond.
    I'm just looking at the facts. Fishing industry - completed stuffed. Any small business importing or exporting - massively damaged. Musicians, theatre touring, fashion industry, au-pair agencies - torpedoed out of sheer ideological spite, for absolutely no rational reason whatsoever. Euro-denominated trading - leaching out of the City. Daffodil producers - clobbered. The border in the Irish Sea - catastrophic. Lamb exporters - massive extra costs and hassle. Computer systems: not written yet. Trucks going back empty because the hassle and cost of the paperwork is disproportionate. The list is endless, and there's much more to come (we haven't even started customs checks our end, and the grace periods on the EU side will come to end).

    The mental gymnastics Brexiteers go through to persuade themselves that this is what Vote Leave promised, and what they expected back in 2016, is a wonder to behold. The most hilarious bit of it is the bizarre claim that putting up massive trade barriers (even within its own borders!) shows that the UK is a champion of free trade. Was there ever a greater cognitive dissonance?
    If you want cognitive dissonance look in the mirror.

    You're desperate for their to be failings but there's just pretty inconsequential stuff primarily getting bigged up by people with an axe to grind. For people in the real world life is going on.

    As for "trucks going back empty" - trucks have always gone back empty. In case you haven't noticed it we won a mammoth trade deficit with the Continent and long have done, that's why the trucks are empty it isn't new.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
    All this just proves the point that the best thing for America would've been to create a Truman Show-style alternative reality for the mad old bastard. Plus it would combine his other love of reality TV with great ratings, albeit he wouldn't know it.

    I don't think he'll run, though. He'll probably tease all the way to the line, as his influence depends on the fear he'll go again. But he was very personally hurt by defeat and ego preservation means he probably won't risk in the end - if a proxy or other GOPer loses then that's great for him, as he gets to say "of course, I'd have won".
    There's more chance of the sun not rising than Trump not running imho. Bar a non hideable major health issue.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
    All this just proves the point that the best thing for America would've been to create a Truman Show-style alternative reality for the mad old bastard. Plus it would combine his other love of reality TV with great ratings, albeit he wouldn't know it.

    I don't think he'll run, though. He'll probably tease all the way to the line, as his influence depends on the fear he'll go again. But he was very personally hurt by defeat and ego preservation means he probably won't risk in the end - if a proxy or other GOPer loses then that's great for him, as he gets to say "of course, I'd have won".
    There was a telling clip in the current series Trump Takes on the World. In a presser during what ever Sino squabble Trump was then in, he ended by saying 'we're winning, we always win'. The internet is littered with quotes from him about winning. For him to run again there would have to be some acknowledgment of him having legitimately lost in 2020, else why jump into the whole rigged procession again? Dunno if he's psychologically capable of that.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2021
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.
    ..
    .

    Of course they did. No-one in the EU, or indeed anywhere else in the world, expected the UK to be so utterly irrational as to impose economic sanctions on itself, severely damaging multiple industries and even driving business away from its world-beating financial service sector, or to insist on maximum regulatory divergence between one part of the UK and another.

    The scale of the disastrous course Boris has taken is breath-taking, even if at the moment it's hidden under the pandemic.
    Honestly, you've got probably the worst case of Stockholm syndrome other than Philip Hammond.
    I'm just looking the facts. Fishing industry - completed stuffed. Any small business importing or exporting - massively damaged. Musicians, theatre touring, fashion industry, au-pair agencies - torpedoed out of sheer ideological spite, for absolutely no rational reason whatsoever. Euro-denominated trading - leaching out of the City. Daffodil producers - clobbered. The border in the Irish Sea - catastrophic. Lamb exporters - massive extra costs and hassle. Computer systems: not written yet. Trucks going back empty because the hassle and cost of the paperwork is disproportionate. The list is endless, and there's much more to come (we haven't even started customs checks our end, and the grace periods on the EU side will come to end).

    The mental gymnastics Brexiteers go through to persuade themselves that this is what Vote Leave promised, and what they expected back in 2016, is a wonder to behold. The most hilarious bit of it is the bizarre claim that putting up massive trade barriers (even within its own borders!) shows that the UK is a champion of free trade. Was there ever a greater cognitive dissonance?
    And yet thousands of EU based institutions are opening up UK branch offices to ensure they don't lose access to London's markets should the EU decide against equivalence. I'm not sure how much value the rest actually has and the special pleading from certain industries that have always been anti-brexit isn't a huge surprise. Fishing is a really big who gives a shit 0.01% of GDP industry. I've not read the complaints from fashion, would be interested to see what the complaints are if you have any links.
    Of course fishing is tiny, but it's the Brexiteers who decided it was a key objective to protect it, and instead have absolutely kiboshed it. And of course each of those sectors hit is individually small as a proportion of GDP, but taken together they add up to a lot of jobs and a lot of added value.

    On fashion, here you go:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55894914

    And yes of course EU based institutions are setting up UK branch offices. They have to now, it's an extra cost of doing business in London. That's bad news, not good news, and the corollary is of course that banks from all over the world can no longer rely on London-based branches to service the EU27, so are setting up branch offices within the EU. Putting up trade frictions in our most important industry - one of the very few sectors in which we have a world-class competitive advantage - is just mind-blowingly stupid. Thanks to Boris and David Frost, we've managed to sign up to a thin deal which protects EU exports to the UK and clobbers UK exports to the EU. It barely mentions services. How dumb was that?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    The Chinese regard themselves as never having been conquered by anyone, though they have suffered from numerous civil wars. By this logic, Genghis Khan was Chinese (indeed I saw him listed as an emperor of China in a list on sale in the gift shop at the Forbidden City).
    So anything that he had in his empire must actually be part of China...
    Hard for us to criticise given our national blind spot on the “Glorious Revolution”.
    On the upside, we don't have a national government that believes that the Glorious Revolution means we own the Netherlands and will get round to conquering re-integrating them into The Homeland, Real Soon.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.
    ..
    .

    Of course they did. No-one in the EU, or indeed anywhere else in the world, expected the UK to be so utterly irrational as to impose economic sanctions on itself, severely damaging multiple industries and even driving business away from its world-beating financial service sector, or to insist on maximum regulatory divergence between one part of the UK and another.

    The scale of the disastrous course Boris has taken is breath-taking, even if at the moment it's hidden under the pandemic.
    Honestly, you've got probably the worst case of Stockholm syndrome other than Philip Hammond.
    I'm just looking at the facts. Fishing industry - completed stuffed. Any small business importing or exporting - massively damaged. Musicians, theatre touring, fashion industry, au-pair agencies - torpedoed out of sheer ideological spite, for absolutely no rational reason whatsoever. Euro-denominated trading - leaching out of the City. Daffodil producers - clobbered. The border in the Irish Sea - catastrophic. Lamb exporters - massive extra costs and hassle. Computer systems: not written yet. Trucks going back empty because the hassle and cost of the paperwork is disproportionate. The list is endless, and there's much more to come (we haven't even started customs checks our end, and the grace periods on the EU side will come to end).

    The mental gymnastics Brexiteers go through to persuade themselves that this is what Vote Leave promised, and what they expected back in 2016, is a wonder to behold. The most hilarious bit of it is the bizarre claim that putting up massive trade barriers (even within its own borders!) shows that the UK is a champion of free trade. Was there ever a greater cognitive dissonance?
    I suppose the only realistic alternative 'We don't like foreigners' is a little unpalatable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215
    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    No.

    If they are planning to defend Taiwan - or indeed if Taiwan is determined about defending its independence, which it almost certainly is - most scenarios would involve significant disruption to semiconductor production.

    I don't think you can make assumptions either way - and Biden's State appointments are China pragmatists, not doves.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,205

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.
    ..
    .

    Of course they did. No-one in the EU, or indeed anywhere else in the world, expected the UK to be so utterly irrational as to impose economic sanctions on itself, severely damaging multiple industries and even driving business away from its world-beating financial service sector, or to insist on maximum regulatory divergence between one part of the UK and another.

    The scale of the disastrous course Boris has taken is breath-taking, even if at the moment it's hidden under the pandemic.
    Honestly, you've got probably the worst case of Stockholm syndrome other than Philip Hammond.
    I'm just looking at the facts. Fishing industry - completed stuffed. Any small business importing or exporting - massively damaged. Musicians, theatre touring, fashion industry, au-pair agencies - torpedoed out of sheer ideological spite, for absolutely no rational reason whatsoever. Euro-denominated trading - leaching out of the City. Daffodil producers - clobbered. The border in the Irish Sea - catastrophic. Lamb exporters - massive extra costs and hassle. Computer systems: not written yet. Trucks going back empty because the hassle and cost of the paperwork is disproportionate. The list is endless, and there's much more to come (we haven't even started customs checks our end, and the grace periods on the EU side will come to end).

    The mental gymnastics Brexiteers go through to persuade themselves that this is what Vote Leave promised, and what they expected back in 2016, is a wonder to behold. The most hilarious bit of it is the bizarre claim that putting up massive trade barriers (even within its own borders!) shows that the UK is a champion of free trade. Was there ever a greater cognitive dissonance?
    Brexit is as stupid as ever but the pandemic is giving cover in 2 ways. It's a bigger thing to worry about. And our vaccine response is so much better than the EU shambles.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    Cookie said:

    Naomi Wolf was a Rhodes Scholar at New College, Oxford, nuff said.

    I do have a friend who is convinced Apple engages in mind control, it started via the iPod which sent waves to your brain to buy even more expensive stuff from Apple.
    To be honest, that's the most plausible explanation I can think of for the keenness of Apple's fans to spend increasing amounts of money on it. :-)

    Surely - surely - Naomi Wolf is being sarcastic in some way? Surely she isn't serious?
    I'm sure she must have done the research and not just credulously believed something she wanted to be true.

    [innocent face]
  • DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    The Chinese regard themselves as never having been conquered by anyone, though they have suffered from numerous civil wars. By this logic, Genghis Khan was Chinese (indeed I saw him listed as an emperor of China in a list on sale in the gift shop at the Forbidden City).
    So anything that he had in his empire must actually be part of China...
    Hard for us to criticise given our national blind spot on the “Glorious Revolution”.
    On the upside, we don't have a national government that believes that the Glorious Revolution means we own the Netherlands and will get round to conquering re-integrating them into The Homeland, Real Soon.
    Absolutely. Calais and Normandy on the other hand? We have a better claim than the current French Government. I say we invade.
  • DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    The Chinese regard themselves as never having been conquered by anyone, though they have suffered from numerous civil wars. By this logic, Genghis Khan was Chinese (indeed I saw him listed as an emperor of China in a list on sale in the gift shop at the Forbidden City).
    So anything that he had in his empire must actually be part of China...
    Hard for us to criticise given our national blind spot on the “Glorious Revolution”.
    On the upside, we don't have a national government that believes that the Glorious Revolution means we own the Netherlands and will get round to conquering re-integrating them into The Homeland, Real Soon.
    Don't put ideas into their heads.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    No.

    If they are planning to defend Taiwan - or indeed if Taiwan is determined about defending its independence, which it almost certainly is - most scenarios would involve significant disruption to semiconductor production.

    I don't think you can make assumptions either way - and Biden's State appointments are China pragmatists, not doves.
    Taiwan does not currently have the defence capability to defend against Chinese invasion. Selling them that capability is seen as the trigger that would start the conflict. But it's probably right to try and get them it somehow.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    No.

    If they are planning to defend Taiwan - or indeed if Taiwan is determined about defending its independence, which it almost certainly is - most scenarios would involve significant disruption to semiconductor production.

    I don't think you can make assumptions either way - and Biden's State appointments are China pragmatists, not doves.
    he biggest stick the US has is that if Taiwan is invaded, they declare war. Not to actually fight, but the first step is to seize all the "enemy" property. So all the Chinese owned US government debt evaporates....
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
    All this just proves the point that the best thing for America would've been to create a Truman Show-style alternative reality for the mad old bastard. Plus it would combine his other love of reality TV with great ratings, albeit he wouldn't know it.

    I don't think he'll run, though. He'll probably tease all the way to the line, as his influence depends on the fear he'll go again. But he was very personally hurt by defeat and ego preservation means he probably won't risk in the end - if a proxy or other GOPer loses then that's great for him, as he gets to say "of course, I'd have won".
    We’re back to Trump TV. Each Republican candidate competes for his support in a series of TV specials borrowing the set dressing from the Apprentice.
    "Josh - I loved the way you high-fived that white supremacist while burning a photo of Crooked Hillary - it was a classy move. But then you let me down by referring to Joe Biden as 'President Biden' rather than 'Sleepy Joe' and by mildly criticising Vladimir Putin. It's a very sad thing but, Josh, you're a loser and you're fired."
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    I think they truly expected the UK to show some kind of deference to EU regulatory and foreign policy. They believe it is the rational thing to do in Europe as they think EU=Europe.
    ..
    .

    Of course they did. No-one in the EU, or indeed anywhere else in the world, expected the UK to be so utterly irrational as to impose economic sanctions on itself, severely damaging multiple industries and even driving business away from its world-beating financial service sector, or to insist on maximum regulatory divergence between one part of the UK and another.

    The scale of the disastrous course Boris has taken is breath-taking, even if at the moment it's hidden under the pandemic.
    Honestly, you've got probably the worst case of Stockholm syndrome other than Philip Hammond.
    I'm just looking the facts. Fishing industry - completed stuffed. Any small business importing or exporting - massively damaged. Musicians, theatre touring, fashion industry, au-pair agencies - torpedoed out of sheer ideological spite, for absolutely no rational reason whatsoever. Euro-denominated trading - leaching out of the City. Daffodil producers - clobbered. The border in the Irish Sea - catastrophic. Lamb exporters - massive extra costs and hassle. Computer systems: not written yet. Trucks going back empty because the hassle and cost of the paperwork is disproportionate. The list is endless, and there's much more to come (we haven't even started customs checks our end, and the grace periods on the EU side will come to end).

    The mental gymnastics Brexiteers go through to persuade themselves that this is what Vote Leave promised, and what they expected back in 2016, is a wonder to behold. The most hilarious bit of it is the bizarre claim that putting up massive trade barriers (even within its own borders!) shows that the UK is a champion of free trade. Was there ever a greater cognitive dissonance?
    And yet thousands of EU based institutions are opening up UK branch offices to ensure they don't lose access to London's markets should the EU decide against equivalence. I'm not sure how much value the rest actually has and the special pleading from certain industries that have always been anti-brexit isn't a huge surprise. Fishing is a really big who gives a shit 0.01% of GDP industry. I've not read the complaints from fashion, would be interested to see what the complaints are if you have any links.
    Of course fishing is tiny, but it's the Brexiteers who decided it was a key objective to protect it, and instead have absolutely kiboshed it. And of course each of those sectors hit is individually small as a proportion of GDP, but taken together they add up to a lot of jobs and a lot of added value.

    On fashion, here you go:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55894914

    And yes of course EU based institutions are setting up UK branch offices. They have to now, it's an extra cost of doing business in London. That's bad news, not good news, and the corollary is of course that banks from all over the world can no longer rely on London-based branches to service the EU27, so are setting up branch offices within the EU. Putting up trade frictions in our most important industry - one of the very few sectors in which we have a world-class competitive advantage - is just mind-blowingly stupid. Thanks to Boris and David Frost, we've managed to sign up to a thin deal which protects EU exports to the UK and clobbers UK exports to the EU. It barely mentions services. How dumb was that?
    Fishing was a distraction to keep the French and Barnier preoccupied while the Brits got everything else. On almost every major issue outstanding in the end like LPF we got more what we wanted while we gave some ground on fishing. The fishing industry will need to adjust to the new reality but the fact the most vocal objections come from the Scottish lobbyists funded by the Scottish government smells a bit fishy.

    On fashion the fashion industry will have to get used to it. Just because they're complaining doesn't mean its the end of the world. People in fashion regularly work in both New York and Paris without them being the same country or area. Que sera sera.

    As for setting up PO Box branch offices its not such a big deal. Businesses are setting up paper offices then moving on - and we're out of the market, out of their regulations and most importantly regulate the City of London by ourselves and not have Brussels regulating the City.

    If the choice is between having Brussels regulating the City post-Brexit with us having not veto, or London regulates the City and businesses set up PO Box paper branch offices then I choose the PO Box paper branch office every time. The City is too important to be regulated by Brussels and not London.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited February 2021
    This depends on when you think the second wave started but FWIW they were right IMHO. It was just that letting “some” spread would have killed hundreds of thousands more than will (ultimately) have died anyway. Also FWIW I think some controlled spread is what they are looking for the rest of this year save with vaccination to squash the serious cases.

    https://twitter.com/YearCovid/status/1365237922388185088
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,693

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
    All this just proves the point that the best thing for America would've been to create a Truman Show-style alternative reality for the mad old bastard. Plus it would combine his other love of reality TV with great ratings, albeit he wouldn't know it.

    I don't think he'll run, though. He'll probably tease all the way to the line, as his influence depends on the fear he'll go again. But he was very personally hurt by defeat and ego preservation means he probably won't risk in the end - if a proxy or other GOPer loses then that's great for him, as he gets to say "of course, I'd have won".
    We’re back to Trump TV. Each Republican candidate competes for his support in a series of TV specials borrowing the set dressing from the Apprentice.
    "Josh - I loved the way you high-fived that white supremacist while burning a photo of Crooked Hillary - it was a classy move. But then you let me down by referring to Joe Biden as 'President Biden' rather than 'Sleepy Joe' and by mildly criticising Vladimir Putin. It's a very sad thing but, Josh, you're a loser and you're fired."
    It looks like they might already be filming the pilot.
    https://twitter.com/WilliamTurton/status/1365109969490567169
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,356

    DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    The Chinese regard themselves as never having been conquered by anyone, though they have suffered from numerous civil wars. By this logic, Genghis Khan was Chinese (indeed I saw him listed as an emperor of China in a list on sale in the gift shop at the Forbidden City).
    So anything that he had in his empire must actually be part of China...
    Hard for us to criticise given our national blind spot on the “Glorious Revolution”.
    On the upside, we don't have a national government that believes that the Glorious Revolution means we own the Netherlands and will get round to conquering re-integrating them into The Homeland, Real Soon.
    Absolutely. Calais and Normandy on the other hand? We have a better claim than the current French Government. I say we invade.
    No, no, no...

    What we see is that since conditions in Calais are so bad for refugees that they should be allowed to claim asylum in the UK (according to several aid charities).... well, that means that France is a Failed State. So we need to help them, in the traditional way we help file states...

    Does anyone have a map of the oil wells in France?
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
    All this just proves the point that the best thing for America would've been to create a Truman Show-style alternative reality for the mad old bastard. Plus it would combine his other love of reality TV with great ratings, albeit he wouldn't know it.

    I don't think he'll run, though. He'll probably tease all the way to the line, as his influence depends on the fear he'll go again. But he was very personally hurt by defeat and ego preservation means he probably won't risk in the end - if a proxy or other GOPer loses then that's great for him, as he gets to say "of course, I'd have won".
    We’re back to Trump TV. Each Republican candidate competes for his support in a series of TV specials borrowing the set dressing from the Apprentice.
    "Josh - I loved the way you high-fived that white supremacist while burning a photo of Crooked Hillary - it was a classy move. But then you let me down by referring to Joe Biden as 'President Biden' rather than 'Sleepy Joe' and by mildly criticising Vladimir Putin. It's a very sad thing but, Josh, you're a loser and you're fired."
    It looks like they might already be filming the pilot.
    https://twitter.com/WilliamTurton/status/1365109969490567169
    “Release the Trump-o-tron 4000”.
  • Wonder who this is aimed at then?

    THE Faculty has released the following statement, in the name of a Faculty spokesperson, in relation to public debate surrounding the work of the Scottish Parliament’s Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complaints:

    “The Faculty of Advocates is becoming increasingly concerned at the debate, both in the media and in parliament, in relation to the parliamentary committee into the investigation of harassment allegations. The debate appears increasingly to be focussed on the courts and Crown Office.

    “The Faculty wishes to remind all concerned of the importance of maintaining confidence in the judicial system and in the rule of law. Maintaining that confidence requires, amongst other things, recognition of the importance of the independent role of the Lord Advocate, the independent role of the courts and, perhaps most importantly, the vital place of the verdicts of impartial juries in criminal proceedings.

    “No one in public life is beyond reproach, and healthy public debate surrounding the justice system is to be encouraged. However, when the public discourse fails to respect the basic tenets of the independence of the system, it is in danger of leading to irreparable harm. Such harm is something which might be to the detriment of Scotland as a whole in the long term.”


    http://www.advocates.org.uk/news-and-responses/news/2021/feb/importance-of-maintaining-confidence-in-judicial-system-and-rule-of-law
  • DavidL said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    Why PNG?
    Because it's a corrupt and impoverished shit hole that can be easily manipulated and it's a stepping stone toward Australia which is full of wheat, iron ore and coal.
    A friend of mine was sent to PNG by his company in the early nineties, and later moved to Joburg, where he felt safer.

    Australians over the last century were obsessed with the "Yellow Peril" threat to Australia. Seems somethings never change.
    Good job China is such a good neighbour and not expansionist at all................
    Generally speaking China is not particularly expansionist. Its just that their definition of China is slightly bigger than anyone else's.
    The Chinese regard themselves as never having been conquered by anyone, though they have suffered from numerous civil wars. By this logic, Genghis Khan was Chinese (indeed I saw him listed as an emperor of China in a list on sale in the gift shop at the Forbidden City).
    So anything that he had in his empire must actually be part of China...
    Hard for us to criticise given our national blind spot on the “Glorious Revolution”.
    On the upside, we don't have a national government that believes that the Glorious Revolution means we own the Netherlands and will get round to conquering re-integrating them into The Homeland, Real Soon.
    Absolutely. Calais and Normandy on the other hand? We have a better claim than the current French Government. I say we invade.
    No, no, no...

    What we see is that since conditions in Calais are so bad for refugees that they should be allowed to claim asylum in the UK (according to several aid charities).... well, that means that France is a Failed State. So we need to help them, in the traditional way we help file states...

    Does anyone have a map of the oil wells in France?
    No, but I have one of the vineyards.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    edited February 2021
    kamski said:

    felix said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, if all the EU doses received were actually in peoples' arms, then around 12% of EU adults would have received one dose, and the EU would only be a smidgen behind the US (14% of adults with at least one dose).

    France and Germany have taken an EU vaccine procurement disaster, and actually made it worse.

    In Germany the policy is to have a dose already in storage for every dose administered, so there is a guarantee that when you have a first dose that there is a second dose with your name on it in a fridge or freezer in your Bundesland (or even more locally). It is, in my opinion, a stupid policy. But it means for the first 3 weeks of a vaccine (and AZ only started here less than 3 weeks ago) the absolute maximum % of doses administered can be 50%.

    Of course it's going to be a lot less than that because there's a lag between doses being delivered to a Bundesland and actually getting into someone's arm. Probably going to be significantly longer in Germany because a doctor has to be involved in every vaccination, and there are forms to fill in. And because the health system is so fragmented here.

    This is made worse by the decision not recommend one vaccine for over 65s, when this is the group that has first priority. There seems to be a lack of coordination to redirect the AZ doses to younger priority groups, also partly due to the fragmented systems here, but also the incredible lack of any national leadership (which has been a problem with this pandemic in Germany for over a year now).

    There's also an additional reporting lag between jabs happening and getting counted nationally. These lags obviously make a much bigger difference in percentage terms at the start.

    No doubt there is also greater hesitancy about the AZ (which already started in December with the reports that it had lower efficacy AND the confusion about the trials and accidentally giving people half a dose and so on, which made people already somewhat hesitant about any vaccine, much more hesitant about this one).

    But the reporting of this - "only 13% of doses in Germany administered because people don't trust the vaccine" - is in itself totally irresponsible, people are going to be reasonably thinking "if the vast majority of people are refusing it, then I should too" and the problem will get even worse.

    What is the German for 'clusterfuck'?
    DieimpfbeschaffungskatastrophederEuropäischenUnion
    Actually, it's still "der Borisjohnson"
    Die Borisjohnson

    all compound nouns are fem, and it's capitalized like all nouns.

    edit: Der Borisjohnson. Compound nouns take the gender of the base noun. Sorry.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2021
    Still, at least one person was clear-headed about Brexit back in 2016:

    So all these arrangements would leave the UK with less access to the single market than before. Would this be outweighed by freedom to negotiate our own trading arrangements with other countries? A simple bit of maths shows the answer is no. The EU already has FTAs covering nearly 60% of the UK’s trade, including the EU itself. If TTIP and the EU/Japan FTA can be negotiated soon, that figure goes up to 80%. It can’t possibly make sense to have less good arrangements with the 60% or 80% in return for slightly better arrangements with the 20%.

    Or alternatively, look at the orders of magnitude. The single market is plausibly worth 5% of GDP. The Commission says an ambitious EU deal with the US will boost GDP by 0.5% in ten years’ time. With Japan by a bit more, 0.8%. With India about 0.1%. The orders of magnitude are different and it simply isn’t worth jeopardising access to the single market for the sake of global trade.

    That’s all the more true when one considers the negotiating realities. After leaving, the UK will have to renegotiate trading arrangements simultaneously with many major countries, including the EU, in a two-year window. There may not be goodwill. Britain will be demandeur and so it will be Britain that has to make the concessions to get the deal. True, other countries will want deals too, but they won’t be under anything like the same time pressure and can afford to make us sweat.
    ...
    In reality therefore what we can negotiate will fall short of the theoretical ideal. Our FTAs are bound to leave tariffs on some sensitive goods, even if we get tariff-free access for most. We are bound to have imperfect arrangements for services access, our real competitive strength, and this would be particularly risky in financial services given the ease with which firms could decamp to (say) Dublin.

    In short, even the best-case outcome can’t be as good as what we have now; and we won’t be able to negotiate the best-case outcome anyway, because in real life you never can.


    That was absolutely spot-on.

    https://issuu.com/portland_comms/docs/brexitbooklet_online_3_?e=7459321/36134988

    Pages 32-40.

    Written by one David Frost, of whom you might have heard.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited February 2021

    Still, at least one person was clear-headed about Brexit back in 2016:

    So all these arrangements would leave the UK with less access to the single market than before. Would this be outweighed by freedom to negotiate our own trading arrangements with other countries? A simple bit of maths shows the answer is no. The EU already has FTAs covering nearly 60% of the UK’s trade, including the EU itself. If TTIP and the EU/Japan FTA can be negotiated soon, that figure goes up to 80%. It can’t possibly make sense to have less good arrangements with the 60% or 80% in return for slightly better arrangements with the 20%.

    Or alternatively, look at the orders of magnitude. The single market is plausibly worth 5% of GDP. The Commission says an ambitious EU deal with the US will boost GDP by 0.5% in ten years’ time. With Japan by a bit more, 0.8%. With India about 0.1%. The orders of magnitude are different and it simply isn’t worth jeopardising access to the single market for the sake of global trade.

    That’s all the more true when one considers the negotiating realities. After leaving, the UK will have to renegotiate trading arrangements simultaneously with many major countries, including the EU, in a two-year window. There may not be goodwill. Britain will be demandeur and so it will be Britain that has to make the concessions to get the deal. True, other countries will want deals too, but they won’t be under anything like the same time pressure and can afford to make us sweat.
    ...
    In reality therefore what we can negotiate will fall short of the theoretical ideal. Our FTAs are bound to leave tariffs on some sensitive goods, even if we get tariff-free access for most. We are bound to have imperfect arrangements for services access, our real competitive strength, and this would be particularly risky in financial services given the ease with which firms could decamp to (say) Dublin.

    In short, even the best-case outcome can’t be as good as what we have now; and we won’t be able to negotiate the best-case outcome anyway, because in real life you never can.


    That was absolutely spot-on.

    https://issuu.com/portland_comms/docs/brexitbooklet_online_3_?e=7459321/36134988

    Pages 32-40.

    Written by one David Frost, of whom you might have heard.

    You release none of us wanted to leave because we thought we’d improve our trade access to the EU right*? We voted to leave because we wanted to bin all the rest of it. We’d be richer in the EU, or as the 51st US State, or as a province of China; but some things are more important than money. It’s been nearly five years and still people don’t understand the motivations.

    *Well no one sensible. Farage or David Davis might have.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,376
    edited February 2021

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Because Taiwan is semiconductor island.


    Isn't the notion that the US are trying to rebuild domestic semiconductor capacity a tacit acknowledgement that they aren't going to fight China for Taiwan.

    The west did absolutely fuck all of any moment when China turned Fiery Cross Reef and Mischief Reef (in the Spratlys) into massive military bases. The west will almost certainly do fuck all when they take the next step of occupying Taiping then Dongsha.

    The west needs to think about the post Taiwan future because that battle is almost certainly already lost. The Philippines, Vietnam and PNG are where the effort and focus needs to be.
    No.

    If they are planning to defend Taiwan - or indeed if Taiwan is determined about defending its independence, which it almost certainly is - most scenarios would involve significant disruption to semiconductor production.

    I don't think you can make assumptions either way - and Biden's State appointments are China pragmatists, not doves.
    he biggest stick the US has is that if Taiwan is invaded, they declare war. Not to actually fight, but the first step is to seize all the "enemy" property. So all the Chinese owned US government debt evaporates....
    Invading across 80 - 200 miles of sea, in the face of a numerous and determined enemy, and the US Pacific fleet, would seem like a recipe for disaster to me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,215

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    felix said:
    What choice has he got? Trump is going to be the 2024 candidate no matter what Cecil Turtle says so he might as well get on board with it.
    I’m not sure he’s got the attention span to still be interested in three years has he? And being President is a lot of work. I still think Trump TV is more likely.
    He fucking loved being President as it combined three of greatest pleasures in life: getting as high as fuck on pills, license to grope women and having music play whenever he entered a room,

    I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his 2024 bid at this CPAC wankathon at the weekend.
    You’re forgetting that most of that still happens as an ex-President. Even the title. It’s just that you can do it all from Florida.
    @Dura_Ace missed out his other great pleasure - taking advantage of the untrammelled opportunities for grift.

    The instant Trump makes it public he's not running again, his influence will start to wane. He might not declare, but he's going to keep the option open.
  • kamski said:

    felix said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, if all the EU doses received were actually in peoples' arms, then around 12% of EU adults would have received one dose, and the EU would only be a smidgen behind the US (14% of adults with at least one dose).

    France and Germany have taken an EU vaccine procurement disaster, and actually made it worse.

    In Germany the policy is to have a dose already in storage for every dose administered, so there is a guarantee that when you have a first dose that there is a second dose with your name on it in a fridge or freezer in your Bundesland (or even more locally). It is, in my opinion, a stupid policy. But it means for the first 3 weeks of a vaccine (and AZ only started here less than 3 weeks ago) the absolute maximum % of doses administered can be 50%.

    Of course it's going to be a lot less than that because there's a lag between doses being delivered to a Bundesland and actually getting into someone's arm. Probably going to be significantly longer in Germany because a doctor has to be involved in every vaccination, and there are forms to fill in. And because the health system is so fragmented here.

    This is made worse by the decision not recommend one vaccine for over 65s, when this is the group that has first priority. There seems to be a lack of coordination to redirect the AZ doses to younger priority groups, also partly due to the fragmented systems here, but also the incredible lack of any national leadership (which has been a problem with this pandemic in Germany for over a year now).

    There's also an additional reporting lag between jabs happening and getting counted nationally. These lags obviously make a much bigger difference in percentage terms at the start.

    No doubt there is also greater hesitancy about the AZ (which already started in December with the reports that it had lower efficacy AND the confusion about the trials and accidentally giving people half a dose and so on, which made people already somewhat hesitant about any vaccine, much more hesitant about this one).

    But the reporting of this - "only 13% of doses in Germany administered because people don't trust the vaccine" - is in itself totally irresponsible, people are going to be reasonably thinking "if the vast majority of people are refusing it, then I should too" and the problem will get even worse.

    What is the German for 'clusterfuck'?
    DieimpfbeschaffungskatastrophederEuropäischenUnion
    Actually, it's still "der Borisjohnson"
    Die Borisjohnson

    all compound nouns are fem, and it's capitalized like all nouns.

    edit: Der Borisjohnson. Compound nouns take the gender of the base noun. Sorry.
    “Die Borisjohnson” did seem a bit harsh.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,693
    We'll hit 20 million by tomorrow at the latest.
  • TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Now we have the personal rule of Xi alone. I think this necessarily leads to a more paranoid governing style and the lack of self-confidence you identify.

    I think Xi is completely fucked in the head as a result of his childhood experiences.
    There is a bonkers series on BBC (look away license fee non-payers) called Can't Get You Out of My Head which is attempting (I think, I'm on S1:E1) to knit all the global psycho-social factors together to work out what the world looks like today. They are currently on the Cultural Revolution.
    Yeah it is a bit bonkers. Worth watching the whole thing but I’m not sure how persuasive I found it in the end.

  • You release none of us wanted to leave because we thought we’d improve our trade access to the EU right*? We voted to leave because we wanted to bin all the rest of it. We’d be richer in the EU, or as the 51st US State, or as a province of China; but some things are more important than money. It’s been nearly five years and still people don’t understand the motivations.

    *Well no one sensible. Farage or David Davis might have.

    I have no problem with understanding the motivations. The objectionable part is the denying the reality of putting those motivations into practice. (See Scotland, independence, for further details...)
This discussion has been closed.