The vaccine wars shouldn’t surprise us given how COVID has blighted life around the world – politica
The vaccine wars shouldn’t surprise us given how COVID has blighted life around the world – politicalbetting.com
The increasingly bitter political wrangling going on about vaccines reminds me of the plot in what’s regarded as the greatest movie ever made “The Third Man”. This it will be recalled was based on the Graham Green novel and was set in post-war Vienna. It was about the murder of a racketeer who was exploiting the shortage of penicillin supplies of which could lead to people living rather than dying.
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First, two ahead of Orson Welles.4
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OT. While reading about United's gloomiest day i came across this on Sky which is part of the online abuse debate and I thought it was surprisingly well done and powerful
'Hate won't stop us'
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/12201010/tuanzebe-racially-abused-after-sheffield-united-defeat1 -
The Third Man
edit Curse you!1 -
That reminds me -- I've never watched The Third Man, even though I have the dvd.0
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Post war Vienna?
This means nothing to me.7 -
16th like Diane Abbott
(the old ones are the good ones)4 -
I saw it in Shanghai many years ago. You haven't lived until you've seen and heard Wilfred Hyde-White speak mandarin.DecrepiterJohnL said:That reminds me -- I've never watched The Third Man, even though I have the dvd.
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Amazing film. Easily the best film Orson Welles and Joseph Cotten ever made.DecrepiterJohnL said:That reminds me -- I've never watched The Third Man, even though I have the dvd.
(And yes, I have seen Citizen Kane as well.)
Worth it just for the zither soundtrack, especially at the end, but there's so much more to enjoy.1 -
Good morning everybody, from a slightly more positive OKC.
"Increasingly bitter"????
The BBC is reporting that
'The EU and the UK-based Covid vaccine maker AstraZeneca have vowed to work together to resolve a bitter row over supply shortages to the 27-member bloc'0 -
You lucky bar steward! Get to it..DecrepiterJohnL said:That reminds me -- I've never watched The Third Man, even though I have the dvd.
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The prospect of a vaccine be able to stop it happening is so enticing that political leaders will go to any lengths to ensure that their home markets are supplied. Their future electoral prospects could be dependent on it.
I think that should be "some political leaders" and some don't face elections...4 -
Watch it now!DecrepiterJohnL said:That reminds me -- I've never watched The Third Man, even though I have the dvd.
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Someone throw a life jacket to Starmer..he's drowning.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/13547229745915699263 -
The Third Man was the second finest performance in the career of Orson Wells
Obviously him being the voice of Unicron in Transformers: The Movie was number one.
Shut up, I was 7 at the time, and I was am obsessed with Transformers.1 -
Age might be fair.Slackbladder said:Someone throw a life jacket to Starmer..he's drowning.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1354722974591569926
Vulnerability - bit different.
The issue though, whatever happens to teachers, remains parents, so I hope TSE's friend is in a position to clear that up for us.
Once vulnerable over-40s have been vaccinated I don't think anyone will be too worried about schools going back.0 -
Apologies for off-topic, but yesterday's business trip revealed a stark lack of non-UK trucks on the M1. Saw a literal handful of EU trucks and the same low single-digit haul of Irish trucks.0
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On topic, wasn’t Lime selling ineffective, tainted penicillin on the black market? Pretty sure that there will be that type of racket over the next year.0
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It is one of my top dozen - absolutely superb.DecrepiterJohnL said:That reminds me -- I've never watched The Third Man, even though I have the dvd.
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... and the EU machine was too slow to order, arguing amongst themselves. I feel sorry for the people of the EU , but am not surprised this has happened. The French have been making our lives very difficult with their petty rules about Covid tests, now they have to come cap in hand.2
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55811161Theuniondivvie said:On topic, wasn’t Lime selling ineffective, tainted penicillin on the black market? Pretty sure that there will be that type of racket over the next year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-555774260 -
The statement for the Greek EU Commissioner was much more emollient strongly suggesting the blether and bluster of the past few days had achieved nothing. Not surprising as there is no 'magic vaccine tree' to coin a phrase.OldKingCole said:Good morning everybody, from a slightly more positive OKC.
"Increasingly bitter"????
The BBC is reporting that
'The EU and the UK-based Covid vaccine maker AstraZeneca have vowed to work together to resolve a bitter row over supply shortages to the 27-member bloc'0 -
He watered it down, as it was worth £70 a tube. Made it highly toxic.Theuniondivvie said:On topic, wasn’t Lime selling ineffective, tainted penicillin on the black market? Pretty sure that there will be that type of racket over the next year.
I have a horrible feeling you might be right about vaccines...0 -
Were they Dinky trucks in your literal handful?RochdalePioneers said:Apologies for off-topic, but yesterday's business trip revealed a stark lack of non-UK trucks on the M1. Saw a literal handful of EU trucks and the same low single-digit haul of Irish trucks.
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A load of meaningless wordsOldKingCole said:Good morning everybody, from a slightly more positive OKC.
"Increasingly bitter"????
The BBC is reporting that
'The EU and the UK-based Covid vaccine maker AstraZeneca have vowed to work together to resolve a bitter row over supply shortages to the 27-member bloc'1 -
Sort of on topic, I know we laugh at America but people like this are our QAnon, it is utterly horrific viewing for so many reasons.
Police are calling for public assistance in tracking down a man who was allegedly part of a group Covid deniers who tried to drag an elderly patient out of critical care at East Surrey Hospital.
Tobe Hayden Leigh, 45, believed to be from Kent, is wanted in connection with a public nuisance offence after videos posted on social media showed a group entering the hospital to visit a family member on Thursday.
After entering the critical care Covid ward, police say they were abusive to hospital staff who asked them to wear masks and refused to leave when asked to do so.
Videos posted online by a YouTube account in Mr Hayden Leigh’s name appear to show an ICU doctor decrying the group for apparently removing the oxygen from the elderly patient.
The doctor pleads: “My main concern is his safety and at the moment you are making him unsafe. You have taken his oxygen off, he is going to die if we don’t put it back on!”
The patient appears to suggest he wants to leave the hospital, arguing with doctors that he won’t die if his oxygen is taken off.
“If you go home, you will die,” the doctor says, later telling the group the patient will “last about half an hour” if he leaves hospital.
Surrey and Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust say they allow any patient who has capacity to make decisions about their care to do so, including leaving hospital.
The man livestreaming the incident then argues with the exasperated doctors, telling them the gravely ill patient should be put on the unproven treatment of “Vitamin C, Vitamin D and Zinc” if he is unhappy.
Standing in the Covid ward he challenges doctors to “define coronavirus”, claiming it “hasn’t been proven to exist” and is “no longer a highly contagious infectious disease”.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/covid-denier-nhs-east-surrey-hospital-police-hunt-elderly-man-tobe-hayden-leigh/1 -
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For those who missed it yesterday - Mr Navabi posted the link to the report:
UK Vaccine Taskforce 2020 Achievements and Future Strategy
End of year report
1. VTF has built an attractive portfolio of the most promising vaccines for the UK population
The VTF’s strategy to build a diverse portfolio of vaccines across different formats gives the UK the greatest chance of providing a safe and effective vaccine, recognising that many of these vaccines in development may fail. The VTF focused on vaccines that could be in the clinic in 2020, which could be manufactured at scale preferably in the UK, which had the potential to secure rapid regulatory approval and be delivered ready for deployment as rapidly as possible.
2. VTF has shaped new collaborative arrangements to ensure that successful vaccines will be distributed internationally
The COVID-19 Vaccines Global Access facility (COVAX), to which the UK has made up to £548 million available, will provide access to vaccines for lower income countries including one billion doses for developing countries worldwide. The UK through the VTF has helped to develop the COVAX facility and has shared its expertise and people with COVAX to support their global efforts.
3. VTF has supported the UK’s industrial strategy by reinforcing long-term vaccine capability to prepare the UK for future pandemics, helping to place the UK at the forefront of vaccine R&D, manufacturing and distribution, but more is needed
One of the most interesting and imaginative aspects of the VTF’s work lies in the plans it has laid for future resilience and industrial leadership in this vital area. The VTF has provided targeted funding and focus across three broad areas that support the UK’s long-term pandemic preparedness.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944308/VTF_Interim_report_-_5th_publication.pdf
Notably the UK, with about one seventh the population of the EU has contributed substantially more to COVAX than the EU has, so fewer sermons on "we're all in this together" from UVDL might be in order5 -
This is why we left the EU. An unaccountable executive body that never admits it's mistakes. The commission completely and utterly fucked up the vaccine procurement process. It haggled over price, was slow and bureaucratic at a time where speed was important and cost irrelevant.
Now when countries which moved quickly are seeing the fruits of that labour with rapid vaccination of their vulnerable and short timelines for everyone else they have realised just how badly they fucked it.
The difference is that in 2024 the British people can make Boris pay for all of the fuck ups and more that 100k deaths that are on his hands. Who in Europe will pay for the extra hundreds of thousands that will die because there's no vaccines. No one. The national politicians will pass the buck and the commission is impossible to sack.
Leave voters were lambasted time and again for pointing out just how undemocratic the EU is and now handily, just after we've left, we have an example of it, one that is undermining the western alliance with threats of export bans.
This, to me, goes beyond just vaccines. It shows that a political class that isn't under pressure from voters is inherently worse than one that is. The EU commission is a technocratic body that has failed at basic competence on almost everything to do with the virus and now they are trying to shift the blame into AZ and the UK government.
It is not democracy if there is no mechanism for voters to remove those failures from power.13 -
Sadly, I am sure you both will be. There are some VERY nasty people about.ydoethur said:
He watered it down, as it was worth £70 a tube. Made it highly toxic.Theuniondivvie said:On topic, wasn’t Lime selling ineffective, tainted penicillin on the black market? Pretty sure that there will be that type of racket over the next year.
I have a horrible feeling you might be right about vaccines...0 -
This sounds character building if the character you’re building is a perv.
https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1354706298588319745?s=212 -
BREAKING NEWS
Following a tearful plea from Ursula von der Leyen, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has authorised the transfer of vaccine doses from Scotland to its needy EU allies.
Ms Sturgeon said: “As we move along our pathway to Independence and rejoining the EU it’s so important that we Scots show solidarity with our European brethren.
“It’s heart-breaking to hear how that callous English bounder Boris Johnson elbowed his way to the head of the queue and ran off with all the doses.
“We Scots are made of better stuff and I look forward to the fond embraces of Ursula, Michel, Emmanuel, Angela and all my pals over there just as soon as I am able to hop over the German Sea and join them in Brussels for a fish supper.”
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That's funny - taking our dog along to the vet yesterday on a short stretch of the M20 was surprised how many EU trucks I saw. Didn't notice any from Ireland admittedly was keeping an eye out in light of your many comments on here.RochdalePioneers said:Apologies for off-topic, but yesterday's business trip revealed a stark lack of non-UK trucks on the M1. Saw a literal handful of EU trucks and the same low single-digit haul of Irish trucks.
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Not so much toxic as ineffective. Unless the watering down contaminated it.ydoethur said:
He watered it down, as it was worth £70 a tube. Made it highly toxic.Theuniondivvie said:On topic, wasn’t Lime selling ineffective, tainted penicillin on the black market? Pretty sure that there will be that type of racket over the next year.
I have a horrible feeling you might be right about vaccines...
And he would have been helping to create anti-biotic resistance.0 -
I think a grown-up had had a word and explained to her that she was embarrassing herself, the EU and Cyprus with her inchoherent rantsfelix said:
The statement for the Greek EU Commissioner was much more emollient strongly suggesting the blether and bluster of the past few days had achieved nothing. Not surprising as there is no 'magic vaccine tree' to coin a phrase.OldKingCole said:Good morning everybody, from a slightly more positive OKC.
"Increasingly bitter"????
The BBC is reporting that
'The EU and the UK-based Covid vaccine maker AstraZeneca have vowed to work together to resolve a bitter row over supply shortages to the 27-member bloc'1 -
Don’t give up the day job.Burgessian said:BREAKING NEWS
Following a tearful plea from Ursula von der Leyen, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has authorised the transfer of vaccine doses from Scotland to its needy EU allies.
Ms Sturgeon said: “As we move along our pathway to Independence and rejoining the EU it’s so important that we Scots show solidarity with our European brethren.
“It’s heart-breaking to hear how that callous English bounder Boris Johnson elbowed his way to the head of the queue and ran off with all the doses.
“We Scots are made of better stuff and I look forward to the fond embraces of Ursula, Michel, Emmanuel, Angela and all my pals over there just as soon as I am able to hop over the German Sea and join them in Brussels for a fish supper.”1 -
I think this highlights what the issue is
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1354722391495221249
The few £bns that we spent throwing money at the plausible options seems money well spent - while the Eu by messing around are between 3 to 9 months behind us and as they need more possibly even further behind.
Remember scaling manufacturing isn't instant and it's blooming hard.3 -
Over a vaccine that was being sold not for profit.....MaxPB said:It haggled over price
BTW, Bild has picked up on your point that if the EU shuts down vaccine export, other countries will shut down materials export, stopping all EU vaccine production.....
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But unknowingly as it was not a thing in 1949.Malmesbury said:
Not so much toxic as ineffective. Unless the watering down contaminated it.ydoethur said:
He watered it down, as it was worth £70 a tube. Made it highly toxic.Theuniondivvie said:On topic, wasn’t Lime selling ineffective, tainted penicillin on the black market? Pretty sure that there will be that type of racket over the next year.
I have a horrible feeling you might be right about vaccines...
And he would have been helping to create anti-biotic resistance.
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HeadFloater said:I'm not sure this is a good idea...
https://twitter.com/zachculpeper/status/1354520794643234816
Desk
Thump
No wonder the Darwin Awards have been suspended.0 -
Don't worry, wasn't planning to. Will be interesting to see how Boris gets on today, eh?Theuniondivvie said:
Don’t give up the day job.Burgessian said:BREAKING NEWS
Following a tearful plea from Ursula von der Leyen, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has authorised the transfer of vaccine doses from Scotland to its needy EU allies.
Ms Sturgeon said: “As we move along our pathway to Independence and rejoining the EU it’s so important that we Scots show solidarity with our European brethren.
“It’s heart-breaking to hear how that callous English bounder Boris Johnson elbowed his way to the head of the queue and ran off with all the doses.
“We Scots are made of better stuff and I look forward to the fond embraces of Ursula, Michel, Emmanuel, Angela and all my pals over there just as soon as I am able to hop over the German Sea and join them in Brussels for a fish supper.”0 -
Quote from the film:Malmesbury said:
Not so much toxic as ineffective. Unless the watering down contaminated it.ydoethur said:
He watered it down, as it was worth £70 a tube. Made it highly toxic.Theuniondivvie said:On topic, wasn’t Lime selling ineffective, tainted penicillin on the black market? Pretty sure that there will be that type of racket over the next year.
I have a horrible feeling you might be right about vaccines...
And he would have been helping to create anti-biotic resistance.
'The lucky ones died. The unlucky ones went off their heads.'
Not sure how accurate it was, but I remember reading in an article about the film a few years ago that two doctors working with the British army in Vienna, who had provided penicillin to locals in the belief they were helping, were so upset by one scene they had to leave the cinema.0 -
fpt re gamestop
Not necessarily.Charles said:Market abuse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday
Because the rampers (ramping is abuse, of course, but these are individuals, not one party - unless the exchange/platform knows otherwise) are just buying the stock.
It then went up because of the short squeeze as the hedgies tried to cover.
They were just capitalising on supply shortage, not spreading rumours.
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A tad harsh on BBC reporting.squareroot2 said:
A load of meaningless wordsOldKingCole said:Good morning everybody, from a slightly more positive OKC.
"Increasingly bitter"????
The BBC is reporting that
'The EU and the UK-based Covid vaccine maker AstraZeneca have vowed to work together to resolve a bitter row over supply shortages to the 27-member bloc'
Although.....1 -
If ever a man could combine charm and offensive...Burgessian said:
Don't worry, wasn't planning to. Will be interesting to see how Boris gets on today, eh?Theuniondivvie said:
Don’t give up the day job.Burgessian said:BREAKING NEWS
Following a tearful plea from Ursula von der Leyen, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has authorised the transfer of vaccine doses from Scotland to its needy EU allies.
Ms Sturgeon said: “As we move along our pathway to Independence and rejoining the EU it’s so important that we Scots show solidarity with our European brethren.
“It’s heart-breaking to hear how that callous English bounder Boris Johnson elbowed his way to the head of the queue and ran off with all the doses.
“We Scots are made of better stuff and I look forward to the fond embraces of Ursula, Michel, Emmanuel, Angela and all my pals over there just as soon as I am able to hop over the German Sea and join them in Brussels for a fish supper.”0 -
The M20 should be crawling in EU trucks. That they appear to have largely disappeared elsewhere was interesting too see. If - as keeps being reported - the EU hauliers are largely refusing to serve the UK then either UK hauliers find sufficient backhaul under the new restrictions to make the trip viable, or stuff isn't coming in any more in volume by truck.DougSeal said:
That's funny - taking our dog along to the vet yesterday on a short stretch of the M20 was surprised how many EU trucks I saw. Didn't notice any from Ireland admittedly was keeping an eye out in light of your many comments on here.RochdalePioneers said:Apologies for off-topic, but yesterday's business trip revealed a stark lack of non-UK trucks on the M1. Saw a literal handful of EU trucks and the same low single-digit haul of Irish trucks.
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I'm not sure they've actually ordered it:eek said:I think this highlights what the issue is
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1354722391495221249
The few £bns that we spent throwing money at the plausible options seems money well spent - while the Eu by messing around are between 3 to 9 months behind us and as they need more possibly even further behind.
Remember scaling manufacturing isn't instant and it's blooming hard.
12th January 2021
Today, the European Commission concluded exploratory talks with the pharmaceutical company Valneva with a view to purchasing its potential vaccine against COVID-19. The envisaged contract with Valneva would provide for the possibility for all EU Member States to purchase together 30 million doses, and they could further purchase up to 30 million more doses.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_510 -
I remember that quote about the doctors. Someone told Greene that, IIRC.ydoethur said:
Quote from the film:Malmesbury said:
Not so much toxic as ineffective. Unless the watering down contaminated it.ydoethur said:
He watered it down, as it was worth £70 a tube. Made it highly toxic.Theuniondivvie said:On topic, wasn’t Lime selling ineffective, tainted penicillin on the black market? Pretty sure that there will be that type of racket over the next year.
I have a horrible feeling you might be right about vaccines...
And he would have been helping to create anti-biotic resistance.
'The lucky ones died. The unlucky ones went off their heads.'
Not sure how accurate it was, but I remember reading in an article about the film a few years ago that two doctors working with the British army in Vienna, who had provided penicillin to locals in the belief they were helping, were so upset by one scene they had to leave the cinema.
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Ms Sturgeon has no intention of giving up the day job.Theuniondivvie said:
Don’t give up the day job.Burgessian said:BREAKING NEWS
Following a tearful plea from Ursula von der Leyen, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has authorised the transfer of vaccine doses from Scotland to its needy EU allies.
Ms Sturgeon said: “As we move along our pathway to Independence and rejoining the EU it’s so important that we Scots show solidarity with our European brethren.
“It’s heart-breaking to hear how that callous English bounder Boris Johnson elbowed his way to the head of the queue and ran off with all the doses.
“We Scots are made of better stuff and I look forward to the fond embraces of Ursula, Michel, Emmanuel, Angela and all my pals over there just as soon as I am able to hop over the German Sea and join them in Brussels for a fish supper.”
Mr Salmond has other ideas.0 -
BBC News - Covid: UK vaccine supplies 'won't be interrupted' - Gove
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55838272
Given its Gove, that means we should expect widespread disruption.1 -
Speaking of which - duty calls.FrancisUrquhart said:BBC News - Covid: UK vaccine supplies 'won't be interrupted' - Gove
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55838272
Given its Gove, that means we should expect widespread disruption.
See you later.0 -
An example of why cooperation is better than competition and why leaving the EU was such a stupid idea. What's the point of vaccinating in the UK if our neighbours aren't being vaccinated? They close their borders we close ours and we're all fucked.CarlottaVance said:
Over a vaccine that was being sold not for profit.....MaxPB said:It haggled over price
BTW, Bild has picked up on your point that if the EU shuts down vaccine export, other countries will shut down materials export, stopping all EU vaccine production.....0 -
It's a simple consequence that doesn't take a genius to work out. The EU pharmaceutical industry is highly dependent on the UK and Switzerland (and vice versa) any move by one party to freeze out the others would be a disaster. It's a negative sum game, not even a zero sum one because you have a manufacturing site previously pumping out 80m doses per month now doing nothing, it's global capacity that would be going unused while the pharma companies adjust their supply chains and bail out of the EU.CarlottaVance said:
Over a vaccine that was being sold not for profit.....MaxPB said:It haggled over price
BTW, Bild has picked up on your point that if the EU shuts down vaccine export, other countries will shut down materials export, stopping all EU vaccine production.....
If the EU really does walk this path then it shatters the western alliance and they wave goodbye to their pharma industry almost overnight.2 -
TOPPING said:
fpt re gamestop
Not necessarily.Charles said:Market abuse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday
Because the rampers (ramping is abuse, of course, but these are individuals, not one party - unless the exchange/platform knows otherwise) are just buying the stock.
It then went up because of the short squeeze as the hedgies tried to cover.
They were just capitalising on supply shortage, not spreading rumours.
If the reports that the shorts are naked and over 100% are correct, the market abuse is the short sellers. Not those holding contracts and shares.
The suggestion that shares should be loaned without the consent of the owner, just so that the hedges can play with them, is particularly risible.0 -
I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...9 -
You would rather have the EU's vaccine roll out than ours?Roger said:
An example of why cooperation is better than competition and why leaving the EU was such a stupid idea. What's the point of vaccinating in the UK if our neighbours aren't being vaccinated? They close their borders we close ours and we're all fucked.CarlottaVance said:
Over a vaccine that was being sold not for profit.....MaxPB said:It haggled over price
BTW, Bild has picked up on your point that if the EU shuts down vaccine export, other countries will shut down materials export, stopping all EU vaccine production.....
1 -
It's not even as if there is any groundswell of outrage in the EU Parliament. The EU's one thing to rejoice is that Farage no longer sits there. Imagine the hay he would have made....MaxPB said:This is why we left the EU. An unaccountable executive body that never admits it's mistakes. The commission completely and utterly fucked up the vaccine procurement process. It haggled over price, was slow and bureaucratic at a time where speed was important and cost irrelevant.
Now when countries which moved quickly are seeing the fruits of that labour with rapid vaccination of their vulnerable and short timelines for everyone else they have realised just how badly they fucked it.
The difference is that in 2024 the British people can make Boris pay for all of the fuck ups and more that 100k deaths that are on his hands. Who in Europe will pay for the extra hundreds of thousands that will die because there's no vaccines. No one. The national politicians will pass the buck and the commission is impossible to sack.
Leave voters were lambasted time and again for pointing out just how undemocratic the EU is and now handily, just after we've left, we have an example of it, one that is undermining the western alliance with threats of export bans.
This, to me, goes beyond just vaccines. It shows that a political class that isn't under pressure from voters is inherently worse than one that is. The EU commission is a technocratic body that has failed at basic competence on almost everything to do with the virus and now they are trying to shift the blame into AZ and the UK government.
It is not democracy if there is no mechanism for voters to remove those failures from power.1 -
Of course the EU f##king up vaccine procurement is just the latest in a series of f##k ups, remember similar PPE and ventilator schemes suffering the same issues.
When Czechia started to really struggle in the autumn they asked the EU for all the ventilators they could send from this scheme...they got 30.0 -
Uncanny...MarqueeMark said:
Ms Sturgeon has no intention of giving up the day job.Theuniondivvie said:
Don’t give up the day job.Burgessian said:BREAKING NEWS
Following a tearful plea from Ursula von der Leyen, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has authorised the transfer of vaccine doses from Scotland to its needy EU allies.
Ms Sturgeon said: “As we move along our pathway to Independence and rejoining the EU it’s so important that we Scots show solidarity with our European brethren.
“It’s heart-breaking to hear how that callous English bounder Boris Johnson elbowed his way to the head of the queue and ran off with all the doses.
“We Scots are made of better stuff and I look forward to the fond embraces of Ursula, Michel, Emmanuel, Angela and all my pals over there just as soon as I am able to hop over the German Sea and join them in Brussels for a fish supper.”
Mr Salmond has other ideas.
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/opinion/columnists/alex-bell/2849884/team-sturgeon-switches-indy-policy-as-salmond-smells-a-political-comeback/0 -
Give it 10 days before the Sun headline "Infection sprouts in Brussels"?ydoethur said:
HeadFloater said:I'm not sure this is a good idea...
https://twitter.com/zachculpeper/status/1354520794643234816
Desk
Thump
No wonder the Darwin Awards have been suspended.1 -
The ramping up of testing was actually quite similar - the existing organisational structure/management said that they couldn't expand beyond a few multiples. Which was taken to mean that mass testing was impossible, by the same people.Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...
Then the Lighthouse Labs project came in.4 -
Probably the scene in the children’s ward with kids who’d been treated with Lime’s penicillin dying of meningitis. One of the great things about the film is it’s ability to combine expressionism & film noir with a good bit of realism.ydoethur said:
Quote from the film:Malmesbury said:
Not so much toxic as ineffective. Unless the watering down contaminated it.ydoethur said:
He watered it down, as it was worth £70 a tube. Made it highly toxic.Theuniondivvie said:On topic, wasn’t Lime selling ineffective, tainted penicillin on the black market? Pretty sure that there will be that type of racket over the next year.
I have a horrible feeling you might be right about vaccines...
And he would have been helping to create anti-biotic resistance.
'The lucky ones died. The unlucky ones went off their heads.'
Not sure how accurate it was, but I remember reading in an article about the film a few years ago that two doctors working with the British army in Vienna, who had provided penicillin to locals in the belief they were helping, were so upset by one scene they had to leave the cinema.
On checking Wiki (sorry) it seems that Lime’s cuckoo clock speech was added by Welles himself. Must be up with Rutger Hauer’s bit in Bladerunner as memorable script contributions by actors.1 -
Ah. I haven't been following particularly closely, just saw @Charles' post - and thought the issue was the ramping of the stock. If they were naked shorts then yes of course that's illegal.Malmesbury said:
If the reports that the shorts are naked and over 100% are correct, the market abuse is the short sellers. Not those holding contracts and shares.
The suggestion that shares should be loaned without the consent of the owner, just so that the hedges can play with them, is particularly risible.0 -
Well, if they do order it, that's Bulgaria and Romania taken care of.....CarlottaVance said:
I'm not sure they've actually ordered it:eek said:I think this highlights what the issue is
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1354722391495221249
The few £bns that we spent throwing money at the plausible options seems money well spent - while the Eu by messing around are between 3 to 9 months behind us and as they need more possibly even further behind.
Remember scaling manufacturing isn't instant and it's blooming hard.
12th January 2021
Today, the European Commission concluded exploratory talks with the pharmaceutical company Valneva with a view to purchasing its potential vaccine against COVID-19. The envisaged contract with Valneva would provide for the possibility for all EU Member States to purchase together 30 million doses, and they could further purchase up to 30 million more doses.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_51
France, Spain, Germany, Italy - not so much.1 -
Good points in the first two paragraphs, wrong conclusions in the second two. It seems very plausible and perhaps even likely that Cummings was integral to the early speedy actions of the vaccine task force. He has strengths and weaknesses just like everyone else does, and this plays to his strengths. On plenty of other things his approach caused mayhem, division and inaction.Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...
Cronies, sleaze and ethics really do matter too though. We owe him no apology, but if he was involved in this we should thank him for that part of his service.0 -
From Kate Bingham in the VTF report:Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...
We should recognise the flexibility and nimbleness of the civil service and the Ministers who balanced appropriate oversight and governance measures with respect to spending taxpayer money, with the making of big, difficult decisions at pace. Without this streamlining of decision making, it is unlikely that the VTF could have delivered this successful range of outcomes in such a short time.
2 -
The big mistake the government made with testing was they got from 10k to 100k with help of the man from Delmonte...then they sent him back and the pace of increase slowed. So they got caught short in the autumn....before refocusing again and real push for massive capacity.Malmesbury said:
The ramping up of testing was actually quite similar - the existing organisational structure/management said that they couldn't expand beyond a few multiples. Which was taken to mean that mass testing was impossible, by the same people.Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...
Then the Lighthouse Labs project came in.
With vaccine roll out, they have to keep expanding capacity, no let up. There is a not insignificant chance that by the time we get through the population, we might well have to go round again with a new vaccine for all these mutate versions.0 -
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.TOPPING said:
Ah. I haven't been following particularly closely, just saw @Charles' post - and thought the issue was the ramping of the stock. If they were naked shorts then yes of course that's illegal.Malmesbury said:
If the reports that the shorts are naked and over 100% are correct, the market abuse is the short sellers. Not those holding contracts and shares.
The suggestion that shares should be loaned without the consent of the owner, just so that the hedges can play with them, is particularly risible.0 -
Well, it depends how they did it. It gets technical, but they seem to have done an end run around the rules.TOPPING said:
Ah. I haven't been following particularly closely, just saw @Charles' post - and thought the issue was the ramping of the stock. If they were naked shorts then yes of course that's illegal.Malmesbury said:
If the reports that the shorts are naked and over 100% are correct, the market abuse is the short sellers. Not those holding contracts and shares.
The suggestion that shares should be loaned without the consent of the owner, just so that the hedges can play with them, is particularly risible.0 -
As I mentioned last night, wasn’t some of the briefing against Bingham coming from within the No 10 Stavka?Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...1 -
I think the difference is that last time it wasn't quite as visible to the general public as lack of vaccine appointments are.FrancisUrquhart said:Of course the EU f##king up vaccine procurement is just the latest in a series of f##k ups, remember similar PPE and ventilator schemes suffering the same issues.
When Czechia started to really struggle in the autumn they asked the EU for all the ventilators they could send from this scheme...they got 30.
This is an interesting read on how the EU got themselves into the mess they are in https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/
Price and liability are not things to talk about when you need manufacturing capacity and rapid delivery.
Capacity, speed and price are 3 sides of a triangle on which you can select only 2. And they picked the wrong one to insist upon (before being late to start the project in the first place).
The more I read that article the more I'm surprised the EU have any vaccines at the moment in time.2 -
Even if it is done legally through some odd quirk of rules, it doesn't make it not completely stupid.Malmesbury said:
Well, it depends how they did it. It gets technical, but they seem to have done an end run around the rules.TOPPING said:
Ah. I haven't been following particularly closely, just saw @Charles' post - and thought the issue was the ramping of the stock. If they were naked shorts then yes of course that's illegal.Malmesbury said:
If the reports that the shorts are naked and over 100% are correct, the market abuse is the short sellers. Not those holding contracts and shares.
The suggestion that shares should be loaned without the consent of the owner, just so that the hedges can play with them, is particularly risible.0 -
And people moaned that it wasn't within the pre-existing NHS structure.Malmesbury said:
The ramping up of testing was actually quite similar - the existing organisational structure/management said that they couldn't expand beyond a few multiples. Which was taken to mean that mass testing was impossible, by the same people.Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...
Then the Lighthouse Labs project came in.2 -
I will take a look sounds interesting.Malmesbury said:
Well, it depends how they did it. It gets technical, but they seem to have done an end run around the rules.TOPPING said:
Ah. I haven't been following particularly closely, just saw @Charles' post - and thought the issue was the ramping of the stock. If they were naked shorts then yes of course that's illegal.Malmesbury said:
If the reports that the shorts are naked and over 100% are correct, the market abuse is the short sellers. Not those holding contracts and shares.
The suggestion that shares should be loaned without the consent of the owner, just so that the hedges can play with them, is particularly risible.0 -
I think you might find that one of the quietest choruses you've ever heardRichard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...1 -
I don't disagree with your first paragraph, but, still, after all the slagging off, we should balance it with a bit of un-slagging.noneoftheabove said:
Good points in the first two paragraphs, wrong conclusions in the second two. It seems very plausible and perhaps even likely that Cummings was integral to the early speedy actions of the vaccine task force. He has strengths and weaknesses just like everyone else does, and this plays to his strengths. On plenty of other things his approach caused mayhem, division and inaction.
Cronies, sleaze and ethics really do matter too though. We owe him no apology, but if he was involved in this we should thank him for that part of his service.
On cronies and sleaze - yes, sure, if it's real. But most of the coverage was garbage, with tenuous connections blown up out of all proportion.3 -
eek said:FrancisUrquhart said:
Of course the EU f##king up vaccine procurement is just the latest in a series of f##k ups, remember similar PPE and ventilator schemes suffering the same issues.
When Czechia started to really struggle in the autumn they asked the EU for all the ventilators they could send from this scheme...they got 30.
The more I read that article the more I'm surprised the EU have any vaccines at the moment in time.
The benefit of being such a large power is that even when in the wrong, they can still get their way to some degree.
1 -
No. They close their borders and they are still fucked. We close our borders to them because they might still generate a mutant strain in their unvaxxed population that undoes all the good work the UK has done. But we can shortly return to the pre-Covid unfucked social life of going to family, restaurants, pubs, theatre, concerts, night clubs....Roger said:
An example of why cooperation is better than competition and why leaving the EU was such a stupid idea. What's the point of vaccinating in the UK if our neighbours aren't being vaccinated? They close their borders we close ours and we're all fucked.CarlottaVance said:
Over a vaccine that was being sold not for profit.....MaxPB said:It haggled over price
BTW, Bild has picked up on your point that if the EU shuts down vaccine export, other countries will shut down materials export, stopping all EU vaccine production.....3 -
Cummings' time has come after he has gone. The curse of the true visionary....MaxPB said:
Even if it is done legally through some odd quirk of rules, it doesn't make it not completely stupid.Malmesbury said:
Well, it depends how they did it. It gets technical, but they seem to have done an end run around the rules.TOPPING said:
Ah. I haven't been following particularly closely, just saw @Charles' post - and thought the issue was the ramping of the stock. If they were naked shorts then yes of course that's illegal.Malmesbury said:
If the reports that the shorts are naked and over 100% are correct, the market abuse is the short sellers. Not those holding contracts and shares.
The suggestion that shares should be loaned without the consent of the owner, just so that the hedges can play with them, is particularly risible.4 -
Cummings had lots of great ideas, just that he had a lot of bad ones, and was an total arsehole. With a better and more diligent PM, a lot of the proposals had merit and could have been refined to be much better and workable.Roger said:
I think you might find that one of the quietest choruses you've ever heardRichard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...0 -
Oh, no doubt. He's a hell of a disruptive and unpleasant figure.Theuniondivvie said:
As I mentioned last night, wasn’t some of the briefing against Bingham coming from within the No 10 Stavka?Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...
Edit: Sorry, misread your post!0 -
He needs to set up an Institute, where his ground-breaking ideas could be adopted by Government - but at one step removed from having him in Downing Street.Slackbladder said:
Cummings had lots of great ideas, just that he had a lot of bad ones, and was an total arsehole. With a better and more diligent PM, a lot of the proposals had merit and could have been refined to be much better and workable.Roger said:
I think you might find that one of the quietest choruses you've ever heardRichard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...5 -
One of the bits I noticed was that most brokers insist on the right to allow them to lend shares to be shorted.Malmesbury said:
Well, it depends how they did it. It gets technical, but they seem to have done an end run around the rules.TOPPING said:
Ah. I haven't been following particularly closely, just saw @Charles' post - and thought the issue was the ramping of the stock. If they were naked shorts then yes of course that's illegal.Malmesbury said:
If the reports that the shorts are naked and over 100% are correct, the market abuse is the short sellers. Not those holding contracts and shares.
The suggestion that shares should be loaned without the consent of the owner, just so that the hedges can play with them, is particularly risible.
So one of the tricks the buyers are doing is revoking that right as they purchase their shares making it even harder for the short sellers as the risk of having naked shorts no longer attached to valid shares gets greater and greater.1 -
Absolutely 100% this.CarlottaVance said:
From Kate Bingham in the VTF report:Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...
We should recognise the flexibility and nimbleness of the civil service and the Ministers who balanced appropriate oversight and governance measures with respect to spending taxpayer money, with the making of big, difficult decisions at pace. Without this streamlining of decision making, it is unlikely that the VTF could have delivered this successful range of outcomes in such a short time.
Some people, I won't name names, have been relentlessly attacking the government and Bingham etc for not religiously abiding by oversight rules during the pandemic. But you can't and do it right.
Now it is coming home to roost. As was said last year when discussing this: you can have it cheap, right or fast - pick two out of three.
This needed to be done quickly, it needed to be done right. So by series of elimination ...4 -
What the EU actually needs to be doing NOW is throwing money at pharma companies to expand manufacturing capability within the EU itself. The plants don't come for free, but compared to the overall EU budget a few billion chucked at Sanofi for the express purpose of vaccine manufacture of say Pfizer under license would be incredibly well spent.
I know Sanofi are shifting existing capability to do this already, but throwing money at them to duplicate this effort in say Poland - it wouldn't have an immediate return but further down the line they'd have vaccine robustness.1 -
Borders won't be opening in any meaningful way anytime soon. Even if we get the vaccine well underway, the risks are too much, especially in the developing world which will take years and years to get this thing under control. You better look forward to your hols in Skeggy much more Roger!MarqueeMark said:
No. They close their borders and they are still fucked. We close our borders to them because they might still generate a mutant strain in their unvaxxed population that undoes all the good work the UK has done. But we can shortly return to the pre-Covid unfucked social life of going to family, restaurants, pubs, theatre, concerts, night clubs....Roger said:
An example of why cooperation is better than competition and why leaving the EU was such a stupid idea. What's the point of vaccinating in the UK if our neighbours aren't being vaccinated? They close their borders we close ours and we're all fucked.CarlottaVance said:
Over a vaccine that was being sold not for profit.....MaxPB said:It haggled over price
BTW, Bild has picked up on your point that if the EU shuts down vaccine export, other countries will shut down materials export, stopping all EU vaccine production.....4 -
Hopefully we can all cooperate to vaccinate the most vulnerable people both in Europe and elsewhere. But Europe hasnt even approved the AZ vaccine yet so its a bit strange demanding that we hand it over at this time.Roger said:
An example of why cooperation is better than competition and why leaving the EU was such a stupid idea. What's the point of vaccinating in the UK if our neighbours aren't being vaccinated? They close their borders we close ours and we're all fucked.CarlottaVance said:
Over a vaccine that was being sold not for profit.....MaxPB said:It haggled over price
BTW, Bild has picked up on your point that if the EU shuts down vaccine export, other countries will shut down materials export, stopping all EU vaccine production.....1 -
I have never heard of the third man.
Thanks for this. Love this stuff.HYUFD said:1 -
5
-
On Gamestop, wouldn't know be a great time for the company to issue US$100m of shares - at say 50% of the prior closing price? They get capitalised and out of a hole, the shorters can grab these shares to mitigate some of their massive losses, the share price recovers because they are now cash rich so those playing the shorters don't lose their shirt....1
-
I've looked through the hit pieces, and stuff like she's a disruptor and so forth seem - well that's how stuff had to get done.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, no doubt. He's a hell of a disruptive and unpleasant figure.Theuniondivvie said:
As I mentioned last night, wasn’t some of the briefing against Bingham coming from within the No 10 Stavka?Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...
Can you work out what the PR contracts might have been about ? That's small beer to the overall success of the project but seemed a reasonable point from the hit pieces back in November.
Greasing the wheels with various global drug companies perhaps ?0 -
I'm amazed vaccine wars took this long. I expected it the instant the first ones started.3
-
SKS thinks that there’s nothing more essential than defending the Union. Never doubted it for a minute.
https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1354737588939194375?s=210 -
Yes, the government's performance on vaccinations is great. Taken in the round, when considering the investments made in development, it arguably merits the description of "world-leading".
However, I do worry that, because the government made such a mess of other aspects of the pandemic - self-isolation, contact-tracing, quarantine - that we have now created the ideal conditions (a high infection rate and people with partial vaccine-acquired immunity) for the virus to mutate to evade the vaccine.
Maybe we will get lucky. I certainly hope so.0 -
It says bitter right in their report and as we know from Brexit saying something is constructive etc does not make it so, so denials of bitterness dont erase what has been said and alleged in recent days.OldKingCole said:Good morning everybody, from a slightly more positive OKC.
"Increasingly bitter"????
The BBC is reporting that
'The EU and the UK-based Covid vaccine maker AstraZeneca have vowed to work together to resolve a bitter row over supply shortages to the 27-member bloc'1 -
Surely the big mistake with testing was the focus on the volume of tests to the exclusion of a similar focus on ensuring that those tested positive took self-isolation seriously, along with their (traced) contacts. The scaling up of testing was indeed magnificent, but it was not matched by the rigour to ensure self-isolation; most evidence shows only around 20% complied fully with self-isolation rules. The enforcement of self-isolation would have been better suited to local health teams than to the man from Delmonte, but there would have been no lucrative private sector contracts in this. And so the virus continued to spread despite all the testing.FrancisUrquhart said:
The big mistake the government made with testing was they got from 10k to 100k with help of the man from Delmonte...then they sent him back and the pace of increase slowed. So they got caught short in the autumn....before refocusing again and real push for massive capacity.Malmesbury said:
The ramping up of testing was actually quite similar - the existing organisational structure/management said that they couldn't expand beyond a few multiples. Which was taken to mean that mass testing was impossible, by the same people.Richard_Nabavi said:I've been as enthusiastic at slagging off Dominic Cummings as the next man over the last year, but a thought occurred to me last night following our discussion here on the Vaccine Task Force. This initiative is, by a country mile, the very best ting this government has done, probably in fact the only thing it has done well. Not just 'well' in the normal sense of good governance, but something beyond what you can normally expect governments to achieve. Not only has it put us in an excellent position in terms of Covid vaccine availability, but it has also positioned the UK extremely well for what will undoubtedly be a renewed world emphasis on vaccine technology and production. And it has done it super-fast.
And how was it achieved? I find it awkward to admit this, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Cummings was behind it. It has all the hallmarks of his approach: by-passing the cumbersome workings of the normal Civil Service approach and instead get a small, talented, goal-focused team to super-charge the initiative. Of course it's an approach with great risks, but in this case also with an even greater pay-off.
Of course virtually the entire media coverage last year on the Vaccine Task Force was devoted to garbage about 'cronies' and 'sleaze'. The fact that this was a spectacular success was lost in the deluge of faux-indignation.
We might owe Cummings an apology...
Then the Lighthouse Labs project came in.
With vaccine roll out, they have to keep expanding capacity, no let up. There is a not insignificant chance that by the time we get through the population, we might well have to go round again with a new vaccine for all these mutate versions.1 -
A delayed order, Bancel said, “is not going to limit the total amount, but it is going to slow down delivery."eek said:
I think the difference is that last time it wasn't quite as visible to the general public as lack of vaccine appointments are.FrancisUrquhart said:Of course the EU f##king up vaccine procurement is just the latest in a series of f##k ups, remember similar PPE and ventilator schemes suffering the same issues.
When Czechia started to really struggle in the autumn they asked the EU for all the ventilators they could send from this scheme...they got 30.
This is an interesting read on how the EU got themselves into the mess they are in https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/
Price and liability are not things to talk about when you need manufacturing capacity and rapid delivery.
Capacity, speed and price are 3 sides of a triangle on which you can select only 2. And they picked the wrong one to insist upon (before being late to start the project in the first place).
The more I read that article the more I'm surprised the EU have any vaccines at the moment in time.
Do you think they've learned that yet?2 -
"Doh! It just get's worse and worse!"Slackbladder said:https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1354740789952319489
Starmer trying to re-write history.0
