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Senedd shake-up: what happens if Welsh Labour lose their majority? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Socialist Workers Party shut down by Facebook.

    https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1352715261674201088

    Out of the loop on this one. What were they posting to cause the ban?
    Freedom to publish and freedom to compel a communicator to publish you are of course two very different things, as anyone who has sent their first novel to Penguin will know.

    Facebook - an organisation I like about as much as I like the SWP - wants of course to have the rights of being a publisher and of merely being a platform like the phone system at the same time, while having the duties of neither.

    Declining to be a platform or publisher for the grotesque left or right is very different from cancel culture.
    Facebook needs to decide if it’s a publisher or a town square. Having one’s cake and eating it isn’t sustainable.

    Even as someone who intently dislikes the SWP and all they stand for, they still have a right to say what they want to say.
    As we know the 3-4 tech giants are also rarely acting alone. When they decide to unperson somebody or something, they overwhelming act together and you basically can't run an online business without them.

    It is more than the analogy of being a twat in the pub and getting barred, you are being barred from every pub and restaurant and stopped from buying booze in any shop....for life.

    There isn't an easy solution, but a solution needs to be found...the status quo is not acceptable
    Yes, a group of monopsonists acting in parallel is a clear anti-trust collusion.

    The one that really got me was AWS’ takedown of Parler. That’s the equivalent of the phone company disconnecting you, because someone said something naughty in a phone call.
    There was a great article i posted the other day that explained just how its isnt just AWS, there are so many services you need to facilitate business that you must buy from a very small number of tech companies, unless you a) spend crazy money doing it yourself or b) buy from russians or chinese companies.
    Yes, and we’re also seeing mobs going for Visa and MasterCard, trying to get card merchant accounts cancelled.

    The end result, as you say, is that Parler is now hosted by a Russian hosting provider, and outside of any reasonable US jurisdiction.
    If this continues re US infrastructure providers cancelling firms, there could be a nice opportunity for UK-based providers to step in.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,560
    Carnyx said:

    Just checking on the zeitgeist, 8 months ago this would inspired cries of 'anti English racism' and 'Nippy's gone too far', what's the craic now?

    https://twitter.com/HighlandRampage/status/1352931827321892864?s=20

    That would seem to be in the North-West Highlands - so we're not talking a few miles over Carter Bar either.
    Shieldaig is not exactly en route to anywhere. I don't know who came up with the NC500 but it really wasn't a good idea, even before the pandemic.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    He can look forward to thirty years of hard labour. A shaman moving a mountain.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006
    Byron Criddle has died.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    Congrats for finding another far right account inventing fake riots that hasn't yet been booted off Twitter.
    A journalist from komo news, a far right inventor of riots...jog on....they are the big local ABC affiliate news station in Seattle.
    Nah not them the 'town hall' muppet.
    NYT good enough?

    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1352216896846913540?s=19
    Clearly someone was smashing the windows. However quite convenient it happened right in front of a far-right journo.

    There are a lot of Trump supporters in Portland. Obviously them.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179
    edited January 2021
    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    The pandemic has amply demonstrated that a person can be eminent in their own field and yet surprisingly ignorant of things adjacent to it never mind far removed, and that now matter how smart and well educated you might be you can also still be a deeply stupid person in a whole load of other ways. The last year has been a real eye-opener.
    For example Professor Gupta, who is an expert in theoretical epidemiology, but completely ignorant of practical epidemiology.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903

    kinabalu said:

    Another day and another CNN bashing of the UK. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/23/business/brexit-business-intl-gbr/index.html

    Of course, they totally ignore the EU shambles on the vaccine and the UK's stellar rollout which for the next 2 years matters far more than a few rotting haddock.

    Vaccines are more important than fish right now, no question about that, but I think it's still ok to post about fish. Last night for example, being Friday, we took advantage of a special delivery offer on cod & chips, 2 portions + mushy peas, £15 inc delivery - good value. We'd done the same several times last year but this was the first time in 2021, i.e. since the Thin Deal and consequent meltdown of the fishing industry. And guess what, the retail end is (surprise surprise) not immune to the chaos in the wholesale markets. The chips were great, and so were the mushies. Both of the usual high standard. But the fish was not. The fish was disappointing. For the first time ever the fish was disappointing. It was cooked ok but its overall condition told of a very difficult, downright brexity journey from sea to North London fryer. Bottom line, Brexit ruins my Friday fish & chips. Thank you Leavers. I'm not making this up or exaggerating btw. It's 100% solid anecdata.
    It's clearly a made up story. Nobody south of Nottingham would ever eat mushy peas.

    I'm calling it. You're a high-grade Russian bot with excellent knowledge of Britain but you've just had your "good luck / thank you" moment.
    Cept I'm from Rotherham. Although an on-the-ball bot would flat out lie when threatened with exposure.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    Professor Sridhar is, insofar as I'm aware, an exceptional case. Overt political bias does not seem to be a feature of the epidemiological community - whether amongst those in favour of the zero Covid strategy or otherwise.
    Balloux is trained as a computational biologist. Sridhar is trained as an anthropologist. Of course, Balloux is correct.

    But, Devi Sridhar is a very smooth & ambitious operator.

    My guess is she won't be in Edinburgh for much longer, she'll be moving on ... to better things in the US East Coast Universities.

    In 5 years time, she won't be doing the job she is doing now.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    edited January 2021


    Oh f##k off. There is 100s of hours of footage of black clad far leftist smashing up Portland and Seattle, intimidating elected officials at their homes, for months on end. It isn't some far right fake news QAnon conspiracy. Even the dripping wet Mayor of Portland has finally acknowledged they have a problem with this crowd.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    [Blockquotes muddled above]



    Pity the far left - they must have been so envious of the Trumpist occupation of the Capitol...

    Biden 81 million votes
    Trump 74 million votes
  • TresTres Posts: 2,671
    edited January 2021
    MrEd said:



    There are a lot of Trump supporters in Portland. Obviously them.

    Indeed, exercising their white privilege with gleeful abandon.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    @Jonathan @Sean_F loving the history chat on here this morning.

    Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
  • glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    The pandemic has amply demonstrated that a person can be eminent in their own field and yet surprisingly ignorant of things adjacent to it never mind far removed, and that now matter how smart and well educated you might be you can also still be a deeply stupid person in a whole load of other ways. The last year has been a real eye-opener.
    For example Professor Gupta who is an expert in theoretical epidemiology, but completely ignorant of practical epidemiology.
    In her case, i think we should be questioning if she is an expert in anything....her comment about IFR rate being as low as 0.1%, when we already had cities like NY where it was mathematically impossible was the statement of somebody about as far from an expert could be.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    Carnyx said:

    Just checking on the zeitgeist, 8 months ago this would inspired cries of 'anti English racism' and 'Nippy's gone too far', what's the craic now?

    https://twitter.com/HighlandRampage/status/1352931827321892864?s=20

    That would seem to be in the North-West Highlands - so we're not talking a few miles over Carter Bar either.
    Shieldaig is not exactly en route to anywhere. I don't know who came up with the NC500 but it really wasn't a good idea, even before the pandemic.
    Initiated by local landowners/businesses/tourist industry I believe - through this body fronted by the Duke of Rothesay

    http://www.northhighlandinitiative.co.uk/background

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    This is very worrying
    There really needs to be a push to have community leaders changing minds on this. Otherwise, race relations are going to be set back hugely, should high levels of Covid in ethnic communities be the reason that areas are staying in high tiers even though the rest of the community has been vaxxed. There's going to be a very vocal element saying "fuck 'em, they had their chance, why should my local stay closed?"
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited January 2021

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    The pandemic has amply demonstrated that a person can be eminent in their own field and yet surprisingly ignorant of things adjacent to it never mind far removed, and that now matter how smart and well educated you might be you can also still be a deeply stupid person in a whole load of other ways. The last year has been a real eye-opener.
    For example Professor Gupta who is an expert in theoretical epidemiology, but completely ignorant of practical epidemiology.
    In her case, i think we should be questioning if she is an expert in anything....her comment about IFR rate being as low as 0.1%, when we already had cities like NY where it was mathematically impossible was the statement of somebody about as far from an expert could be.
    You know there is a lot of previous between Gupta and Ferguson/Anderson ... and the sex harassment case?

    My guess is Gupta has never really recovered from it.

    (Of course, there is no excuse for taking personal animosity into scientific argument).
  • glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    The pandemic has amply demonstrated that a person can be eminent in their own field and yet surprisingly ignorant of things adjacent to it never mind far removed, and that now matter how smart and well educated you might be you can also still be a deeply stupid person in a whole load of other ways. The last year has been a real eye-opener.
    For example Professor Gupta, who is an expert in theoretical epidemiology, but completely ignorant of practical epidemiology.
    Or Professor Hugh Pennington, Bacteriologist, who is regularly wheeled out by the Scottish media to amplify his stunning insights into the Covid such as there will be no second wave and Scotland may not need a vaccine. Of course he can't be accused of having become politicised by the epidemic as he was already a vociferous and long standing supporter of the Union.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    If that doesn't work, next it's Tier 5 - "avoid breathing....".
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,203
    stodge said:

    Charles Kennedy wasn't a very good leader - apart from Iraq, which was a personal and policy success, there was very little policy development of any kind. Kennedy had the good fortune of inheriting a Party with a strong local Government base at a time of almost unprecedented Conservative weakness - he faced Hague, IDS and Howard.

    When Cameron became Conservative leader, the LDs had no response to his move back to the centre just as the Conservatives never came up with a serious response to Blair after 1994. Kennedy's personal demons notwithstanding, there was no intellectual or political response to Cameron apart from first to try wisdom over youth with Menzies Campbell and when that didn't work to decide imitation was the sincerest form of flattery.

    Kennedy frankly coasted along as leader and while I liked the man enormously, he was not Party leader material.

    The "Cleggasm" as you call it was nothing to do with centrist populism (whatever that is). Clegg used the first tv debate in 2010 to outsmart Cameron and Brown by imitating what Clinton had done in his debates. Clegg was new, young, telegenic, articulate and at a time of huge anxiety in the wake of the global financial crisis that was a huge advantage.

    The problem was no one had a coherent policy answer to the events of 2008 - the centre left were broken and all the centre right had to offer was "austerity" (which never really happened) predicated on the notion the deficit needed to be closed not by raising taxes AND by cutting spending but more or less wholly by the latter.

    As far as tuition fees were concerned, Clegg was hijacked by the Party which was competitive in a number of University towns and to court the student vote candidates signed pledges to scrap tuition fees. Electorally initially hugely successful but it was an issue at a time when the Government was trying to curb public expenditure.

    The Party had a choice - either stand there and tell non-students public services were being cut but fees were being scrapped or renege on the policy. The error was to choose the latter not the former but the main error was allowing policy to be made during a campaign and not having candidates disciplined enough to avoid jumping on each and every bandwagon.

    One more thing - AV was never LD policy. The problem was Clegg felt he had to throw the Party a bone as the price for supporting the Conservatives. The Tories wouldn't even have STV on a ballot paper such was their terror of the political implications of adopting such a system (they could have killed it stone dead of course) - Clegg didn't think he could go back with nothing so AV became a half way house and I suspect Clegg felt hubristically he could get it passed through his magnetism and personality.

    The problem was Clegg didn't even have the support of his Party so the chances of getting the support of the country were nil and the political humiliation of rejection denuded what little political capital he still had.

    Really interesting comment.
    Where I have to disagree is on the tuition fees debacle.
    That Clegg felt it was necessary to destroy his party to save 1-2bn quid a year (govt estimate in their own optimistic impact assessment scenario) when the budget deficit was over 140bn remains a source of amazement to me.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903

    Slightly odd to be recruiting Nazi saluting dog defender of free speech guy to make your point.
    Ah, I didn't realise it was him.

    I shall exile myself to ConHome for the rest of the afternoon for my sins.
    It's a cesspit, apparently, ConHome. I was surprised to hear that. I'd assumed it was just a digital meeting place for tory activists.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,598

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    The pandemic has amply demonstrated that a person can be eminent in their own field and yet surprisingly ignorant of things adjacent to it never mind far removed, and that now matter how smart and well educated you might be you can also still be a deeply stupid person in a whole load of other ways. The last year has been a real eye-opener.
    For example Professor Gupta, who is an expert in theoretical epidemiology, but completely ignorant of practical epidemiology.
    Or Professor Hugh Pennington, Bacteriologist, who is regularly wheeled out by the Scottish media to amplify his stunning insights into the Covid such as there will be no second wave and Scotland may not need a vaccine. Of course he can't be accused of having become politicised by the epidemic as he was already a vociferous and long standing supporter of the Union.
    Perhaps more specifically a Labour supporter as well. Nothing wrong with that, quite the opposite, but do the media say that? And his Wikipedia entry makes no mention of Labour activity.

    Here's an example - in which he tries to reverse the suspension of the Labour councillors at Aberdeen for allying with the Tories in a Unionist bloc to keep the SNP out.

    https://labourhame.com/support-the-aberdeen-nine/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,860

    We are lucky to get the quality of Welsh analysis on this Board.

    I feel like we lack quality Scottish analysis, for some reason.

    We’re too busy fighting off the Essex Tank Brigade to have time for reasoned argument.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,463
    edited January 2021
    England new vaccinations

    First dose 424,478
    Second dose 1,118

    Total 425,596

    Scotland and Wales don't report at weekends.

    By comparison last Saturday was

    First dose 320,894
    Second dose 3,817

    Total 324,711
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    kinabalu said:

    Slightly odd to be recruiting Nazi saluting dog defender of free speech guy to make your point.
    Ah, I didn't realise it was him.

    I shall exile myself to ConHome for the rest of the afternoon for my sins.
    It's a cesspit, apparently, ConHome. I was surprised to hear that. I'd assumed it was just a digital meeting place for tory activists.
    I feel like 'party activist' is one of those descriptors that has become indelibly linked with 'crazy partisan' for many people because of twitter and the like. Which is very unfair on most activists of course, who are good people.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    Professor Sridhar is, insofar as I'm aware, an exceptional case. Overt political bias does not seem to be a feature of the epidemiological community - whether amongst those in favour of the zero Covid strategy or otherwise.
    She looks OK :blush:
    She is very attractive. Sadly she's also become involved politically with the current Scottish Government to a ludicrous extent.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited January 2021

    England new vaccinations

    First dose 424,478
    Second dose 1,118

    Total 425,596

    Scotland and Wales don't report at weekends.

    By comparison last Saturday was

    First dose 320,894
    Second dose 3,817

    Total 324,711

    Total failure......with rest of the UK that could be 475k for the day....but the headlines are still negative about the strategy, the lack of delivery data etc....

    The government are smashing it, that's the truth of the matter.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    I'm reading the Battle of Singapore at present, which is a campaign that's always fascinated me, particularly as we outnumbered the Japanese so significantly.

    At the end of the day Malaya was bottom of the list for men and materials, as we were fighting for survival in Europe, so it got green troops and no tanks, modern fighter or bomber aircraft, or aircraft carriers, few ships, and had to make do with men, armoured cars, field artillery and anti-tank rifles. And a handful of obsolescent aircraft.

    It could never have held out forever given that but the reason it fell in 2 months (rather than 5-6 months, with at least the prospect of a stalemate) is due to immense racial prejudice against the Japanese, myth-making about "Fortress Singapore", which was just wishful thinking, and poor officers.

    The psychology of Percival as a commander is interesting. He's not quite as atrocious as I always thought he was. He was good on paper and had a fair military brain. But, he didn't have the assertiveness or strength of character to push back against the Governor (and some of his unit commanders) who pushed him around nor the inner confidence to revisit his assumptions when they were disproved by reality, and thus fell prey to confirmation bias.

    The chief example is that he (correctly, in my view) determined that the Japanese could only be defeated by mobile infiltration and flanking tactics in the field. However, he concluded from that that building fixed defences would therefore be bad for morale, as the troops would just cower behind them, and it would involve admitting just how vulnerable Singapore really was. In reality, this is why they couldn't rest or hold the Japanese (as they had nowhere to do it) and why British Empire troops became exhausted and increasingly ineffective.

    He'd have made a good staff officer, but very senior command is far more about character. It's like the difference between a good psephological statistician and a successful gambler.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631
    edited January 2021

    The stars in the Welsh Tory Firmament

    There is a constellation of 11 stars.

    Two are retiring (Burns & Melding). One has been deselected for being the most unpleasant shit in Welsh politics (Ramsey). Two have been caught up in Drinks-gate (Paul Davies & Darren Miller). One has failed as leader before (Andrew RT Davies). One has been an AM for less than a year, since the death of Mohammed Asgur (Laura Jones). Another has been deselected in mysterious circumstances (Suzy Davies).

    We're now down to 3 possibilities: Janet Finch-Saunders, Russel George, Mark Isherwood.

    We now rule out the obviously incompetent (George, Finch-Saunders) & the desperately dull (Isherwood) ... there is no-one left.

    Mmmm ... I'd say the Welsh Tory's best bet is to reinstate Suzy Davies on the list and appoint her. She is not very bright, but I think she is good at campaigning, which is what they need now. Or they parachute someone in.

    Big_G's opinion would be interesting -- he must know some of these folks.

    I know Janet and Mark Isherwood

    Janet is an excellent AM but not sure if she would want it

    I also know Darren Millar and he could do it but not sure if he has not put himself out of it

    However, the party did need a new leader in Wales so it will be interesting
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    edited January 2021

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    Professor Sridhar is, insofar as I'm aware, an exceptional case. Overt political bias does not seem to be a feature of the epidemiological community - whether amongst those in favour of the zero Covid strategy or otherwise.
    She's called the pandemic better than most. Certainly did not sign the intellectually lax and morally barren "Great Barrington Declaration". It's on the Right that political bias has destroyed scientific integrity.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    England new vaccinations

    First dose 424,478
    Second dose 1,118

    Total 425,596

    Scotland and Wales don't report at weekends.

    By comparison last Saturday was

    First dose 320,894
    Second dose 3,817

    Total 324,711

    Highest to date and up 18% (total) and 19% (first) vs yesterday.
  • kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
    SpaceX launch in a few mins....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Very strong vaccine figures.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,860

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    The pandemic has amply demonstrated that a person can be eminent in their own field and yet surprisingly ignorant of things adjacent to it never mind far removed, and that now matter how smart and well educated you might be you can also still be a deeply stupid person in a whole load of other ways. The last year has been a real eye-opener.
    For example Professor Gupta, who is an expert in theoretical epidemiology, but completely ignorant of practical epidemiology.
    Or Professor Hugh Pennington, Bacteriologist, who is regularly wheeled out by the Scottish media to amplify his stunning insights into the Covid such as there will be no second wave and Scotland may not need a vaccine. Of course he can't be accused of having become politicised by the epidemic as he was already a vociferous and long standing supporter of the Union.
    Emeritus Professor Hugh Pennington. He retired in 2003. However, as a member of the Labour Party, BBC Scotland will still have his number on speed dial.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    MrEd said:

    stodge said:

    Charles Kennedy wasn't a very good leader - apart from Iraq, which was a personal and policy success, there was very little policy development of any kind. Kennedy had the good fortune of inheriting a Party with a strong local Government base at a time of almost unprecedented Conservative weakness - he faced Hague, IDS and Howard.

    When Cameron became Conservative leader, the LDs had no response to his move back to the centre just as the Conservatives never came up with a serious response to Blair after 1994. Kennedy's personal demons notwithstanding, there was no intellectual or political response to Cameron apart from first to try wisdom over youth with Menzies Campbell and when that didn't work to decide imitation was the sincerest form of flattery.

    Kennedy frankly coasted along as leader and while I liked the man enormously, he was not Party leader material.

    The "Cleggasm" as you call it was nothing to do with centrist populism (whatever that is). Clegg used the first tv debate in 2010 to outsmart Cameron and Brown by imitating what Clinton had done in his debates. Clegg was new, young, telegenic, articulate and at a time of huge anxiety in the wake of the global financial crisis that was a huge advantage.

    The problem was no one had a coherent policy answer to the events of 2008 - the centre left were broken and all the centre right had to offer was "austerity" (which never really happened) predicated on the notion the deficit needed to be closed not by raising taxes AND by cutting spending but more or less wholly by the latter.

    As far as tuition fees were concerned, Clegg was hijacked by the Party which was competitive in a number of University towns and to court the student vote candidates signed pledges to scrap tuition fees. Electorally initially hugely successful but it was an issue at a time when the Government was trying to curb public expenditure.

    The Party had a choice - either stand there and tell non-students public services were being cut but fees were being scrapped or renege on the policy. The error was to choose the latter not the former but the main error was allowing policy to be made during a campaign and not having candidates disciplined enough to avoid jumping on each and every bandwagon.

    One more thing - AV was never LD policy. The problem was Clegg felt he had to throw the Party a bone as the price for supporting the Conservatives. The Tories wouldn't even have STV on a ballot paper such was their terror of the political implications of adopting such a system (they could have killed it stone dead of course) - Clegg didn't think he could go back with nothing so AV became a half way house and I suspect Clegg felt hubristically he could get it passed through his magnetism and personality.

    The problem was Clegg didn't even have the support of his Party so the chances of getting the support of the country were nil and the political humiliation of rejection denuded what little political capital he still had.

    Excellent post.

    I used to think Lib Dem councils and seats were untouchable in the mid noughties - impossible to win.

    We forget how much we are creatures of the times.
    Stodge's posts are consistently high quality and gives us (or, at least, me) an insight into the workings of a party about which I know nothing about.
    I hope you're not fishing for a return compliment on you and Trumpism.
  • MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    And yet there will be those who just cannot bring themselves round to congratulate Boris and HMG on an outstanding success
  • MaxPB said:

    Very strong vaccine figures.

    Regional

    East 62,169
    London 42,015 ???
    Midlands 84,163
    NE & Yorks 62,618
    North-West 60,255
    South East 63,109
    South West 49,197
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    Professor Sridhar is, insofar as I'm aware, an exceptional case. Overt political bias does not seem to be a feature of the epidemiological community - whether amongst those in favour of the zero Covid strategy or otherwise.
    She's called the pandemic better than most. Certainly did not sign the intellectually lax and morally barren "Great Barrington Declaration". It's on the Right that political bias has destroyed scientific integrity.
    In the US, until Trump, the anti-vaxxers were certainly associated mainly with the left, not right. Trump has changed that. Indeed, I wonder how many formerly avid leftie anti-vaxxers are now passionate vaxxers because of Trump ;)
  • A year ago this weekend, I was in Aberdeen, visiting the Don Bridge & estuary, Dunottar Castle, Stonehaven station and Inverurie station. Also went to the Cosmo restaurant in the Union Square shopping centre. Haven't eaten out since! Also, was my last trip on a the West Coast Main Line all the way to Glasgow. Stayed overnight then went to Aberdeen.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    I think yesterday was the biggest vaccination day yet, so we could be near 500,000 just for England reported tomorrow
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,560
    edited January 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Just checking on the zeitgeist, 8 months ago this would inspired cries of 'anti English racism' and 'Nippy's gone too far', what's the craic now?

    https://twitter.com/HighlandRampage/status/1352931827321892864?s=20

    That would seem to be in the North-West Highlands - so we're not talking a few miles over Carter Bar either.
    Shieldaig is not exactly en route to anywhere. I don't know who came up with the NC500 but it really wasn't a good idea, even before the pandemic.
    Initiated by local landowners/businesses/tourist industry I believe - through this body fronted by the Duke of Rothesay

    http://www.northhighlandinitiative.co.uk/background

    Yes. I'm not sure they knew what a can of worms they were opening.

    There's always been people doing that as a road trip (a lot of German and Dutch in particular) but not in the stupid numbers you saw before last year.

    Still, eventually word will get out about the local inhabitants.

    (Culicoides impunctatus, of course)

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited January 2021
    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    To infinity and beyond....

    The media will still be moaning though.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,860

    A year ago this weekend, I was in Aberdeen, visiting the Don Bridge & estuary, Dunottar Castle, Stonehaven station and Inverurie station. Also went to the Cosmo restaurant in the Union Square shopping centre. Haven't eaten out since! Also, was my last trip on a the West Coast Main Line all the way to Glasgow. Stayed overnight then went to Aberdeen.

    Hopefully only temporarily your last! Inverurie is a lovely station. Pity the loco works is gone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    MaxPB said:

    Very strong vaccine figures.

    Regional

    East 62,169
    London 42,015 ???
    Midlands 84,163
    NE & Yorks 62,618
    North-West 60,255
    South East 63,109
    South West 49,197
    No oldies left to do in London? BAME oldies saying "nope...."? Not gone down into the next tranche?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
    SpaceX launch in a few mins....
    They’re going for a record 143 satellites launched by one rocket.

    10 mins away from the start of the launch window.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=PSIcspDHbu0
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    To infinity and beyond....

    The media will still be moaning though.
    Have the NY Times stuck their oar in again?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368

    England new vaccinations

    First dose 424,478
    Second dose 1,118

    Total 425,596

    Scotland and Wales don't report at weekends.

    By comparison last Saturday was

    First dose 320,894
    Second dose 3,817

    Total 324,711

    Highest to date and up 18% (total) and 19% (first) vs yesterday.

    For my education, are those the figures for Saturday, or the figures reported on Saturday (i.e. primarily Friday's numbers?) Seems very prompt (what my nephews used to call 'very previous') if FOR Saturday.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    And yet there will be those who just cannot bring themselves round to congratulate Boris and HMG on an outstanding success
    I can, they should take credit for this.

    (It's not going to stop me criticising other aspect of Covid policy though! :wink:)
  • BBC rejects race complaint about use of ‘nitty-gritty’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-rejects-race-complaint-about-use-of-nitty-gritty-zmq96nzvq

    But MOTD aren't allowed to use it.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368

    MaxPB said:

    Very strong vaccine figures.

    Regional

    East 62,169
    London 42,015 ???
    Midlands 84,163
    NE & Yorks 62,618
    North-West 60,255
    South East 63,109
    South West 49,197
    No oldies left to do in London? BAME oldies saying "nope...."? Not gone down into the next tranche?
    No-one left in London for the weekend - lockdown breakers ...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
    SpaceX launch in a few mins....
    They’re going for a record 143 satellites launched by one rocket.

    10 mins away from the start of the launch window.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=PSIcspDHbu0
    We're sure this isn't a sinister plan for world domination?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006
    edited January 2021

    MaxPB said:

    Very strong vaccine figures.

    Regional

    East 62,169
    London 42,015 ???
    Midlands 84,163
    NE & Yorks 62,618
    North-West 60,255
    South East 63,109
    South West 49,197
    Not surprised that the Midlands has the highest numbers. I've heard from multiple sources that things are pretty well organised there.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,671
    12 months ago I was attending a talk by Sir David Spiegelhalter and in the Q&A afterwards he merrily pointed out how estimates of deaths from previous outbreaks like BSE/swine flu/bird flu etc. were order of magnitude greater than what had occured and therefore not to worry our heads about this outbreak of flu in China.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    That would be good news - is it that we had enough backed up that even with less supply delivered we can still increase the number?
  • Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
    SpaceX launch in a few mins....
    They’re going for a record 143 satellites launched by one rocket.

    10 mins away from the start of the launch window.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=PSIcspDHbu0
    And its off.....bad weather....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
    SpaceX launch in a few mins....
    They’re going for a record 143 satellites launched by one rocket.

    10 mins away from the start of the launch window.
    ttps://youtube.com/watch?v=PSIcspDHbu0
    And just as the presentation starts, they announce a scrub for weather.

    Try again tomorrow, now back to the bowls...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Slightly odd to be recruiting Nazi saluting dog defender of free speech guy to make your point.
    Ah, I didn't realise it was him.

    I shall exile myself to ConHome for the rest of the afternoon for my sins.
    It's a cesspit, apparently, ConHome. I was surprised to hear that. I'd assumed it was just a digital meeting place for tory activists.
    I feel like 'party activist' is one of those descriptors that has become indelibly linked with 'crazy partisan' for many people because of twitter and the like. Which is very unfair on most activists of course, who are good people.
    It is unfair. Giving up much of your spare time to advance the cause of any democratic non-yucky political party is imo laudable.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    Professor Sridhar is, insofar as I'm aware, an exceptional case. Overt political bias does not seem to be a feature of the epidemiological community - whether amongst those in favour of the zero Covid strategy or otherwise.
    She's called the pandemic better than most. Certainly did not sign the intellectually lax and morally barren "Great Barrington Declaration". It's on the Right that political bias has destroyed scientific integrity.
    Is advocating for a Covid elimination strategy realistic for our circumstances? The Irish didn't even manage that, even though they've some history of going in earlier and harder with lockdowns and have arguably always been in a better position to achieve it.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    If that doesn't work, next it's Tier 5 - "avoid breathing....".
    Don't give people ideas!!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    That would be good news - is it that we had enough backed up that even with less supply delivered we can still increase the number?
    I would imagine some of it is AZ-Ox coming online in larger numbers off-setting the Pfizer reductions.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
    SpaceX launch in a few mins....
    They’re going for a record 143 satellites launched by one rocket.

    10 mins away from the start of the launch window.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=PSIcspDHbu0
    And its off.....bad weather....
    My fault - I'd just tuned in. Sorry everyone ☹️
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
    SpaceX launch in a few mins....
    They’re going for a record 143 satellites launched by one rocket.

    10 mins away from the start of the launch window.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=PSIcspDHbu0
    We're sure this isn't a sinister plan for world domination?
    LOL. Are they putting microchips in each of the satellites? :dizzy:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited January 2021
    The government said they wanted 500k / day by the end of this week. They are going to be just short, but fantastic effort by all concerned. But no surrender....got to keep pushing. We really shouldn't be doing this nonsense though...

    Somerset’s only Covid-19 vaccination centre to close this Saturday for horse racing

    https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/somersets-only-covid-19-vaccination-4918215

    Some nags racing really isn't important at the moment.
  • MaxPB said:

    Very strong vaccine figures.

    Regional

    East 62,169
    London 42,015 ???
    Midlands 84,163
    NE & Yorks 62,618
    North-West 60,255
    South East 63,109
    South West 49,197
    No oldies left to do in London? BAME oldies saying "nope...."? Not gone down into the next tranche?
    Might be interesting to know the local vaccination numbers in London - Newham compared to Havering for example.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544
    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    Yes, great job!

    At what point is supply likely to limit the daily or weekly rate, does anyone have a feel for that?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    Yes, great job!

    At what point is supply likely to limit the daily or weekly rate, does anyone have a feel for that?
    Now. They said they are already limited by supply.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited January 2021

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    Yes, great job!

    At what point is supply likely to limit the daily or weekly rate, does anyone have a feel for that?
    I don't think anybody truly knows, not even the government. Delivery and amounts is still unpredictable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Slightly odd to be recruiting Nazi saluting dog defender of free speech guy to make your point.
    Ah, I didn't realise it was him.

    I shall exile myself to ConHome for the rest of the afternoon for my sins.
    It's a cesspit, apparently, ConHome. I was surprised to hear that. I'd assumed it was just a digital meeting place for tory activists.
    I feel like 'party activist' is one of those descriptors that has become indelibly linked with 'crazy partisan' for many people because of twitter and the like. Which is very unfair on most activists of course, who are good people.
    It is unfair. Giving up much of your spare time to advance the cause of any democratic non-yucky political party is imo laudable.
    Most of the time it is (or at least just a charmingly odd way for someone to spend their time). But those noisy, loathesome marginal political figures we hear so much about are so easily described as 'party activists', as they often not merely members, but not really senior, and they come to our attention for having done something stupid or horrible.

    It skews the picture.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368

    BBC rejects race complaint about use of ‘nitty-gritty’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-rejects-race-complaint-about-use-of-nitty-gritty-zmq96nzvq

    But MOTD aren't allowed to use it.

    TBH, I had no idea that anyone associated that term with racism. Can you be racist for using a term that you had no idea was racist?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    And yet there will be those who just cannot bring themselves round to congratulate Boris and HMG on an outstanding success
    Let's not forget our terrible death toll - absolute and relative - but yes the vaccine rollout is going well and thank goodness for it.

    Which one are you getting btw? The mateus rose or the chateauneuf du pape?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited January 2021
    TimT said:

    BBC rejects race complaint about use of ‘nitty-gritty’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-rejects-race-complaint-about-use-of-nitty-gritty-zmq96nzvq

    But MOTD aren't allowed to use it.

    TBH, I had no idea that anyone associated that term with racism. Can you be racist for using a term that you had no idea was racist?
    Well I would say no, but in this brave new world, saying something not meaning to cause offence is still as bad as deliberately being offensive to the more extremist elements.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    Yes, great job!

    At what point is supply likely to limit the daily or weekly rate, does anyone have a feel for that?
    My understanding is that we are supply limited from here on out, unless we get to seriously mad number of vaccinations per days - multiple millions.

    It seems (as far as I can tell) to have been the policy to ensure that the capability to deliver the vaccine to the public is greater than any possible supply. This seems to have been deliberate policy - so that any vaccine that we have, goes out immediately.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    TimT said:

    BBC rejects race complaint about use of ‘nitty-gritty’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-rejects-race-complaint-about-use-of-nitty-gritty-zmq96nzvq

    But MOTD aren't allowed to use it.

    TBH, I had no idea that anyone associated that term with racism. Can you be racist for using a term that you had no idea was racist?
    Worse than that - these days one can be racist for using a term that isn't racist.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    Yes, great job!

    At what point is supply likely to limit the daily or weekly rate, does anyone have a feel for that?
    I don't think anybody truly knows, not even the government. Delivery and amounts is still unpredictable.
    Are you suggesting this government really knows about anything much?


    And good afternoon everybody. Who'd have thought I'd have found bowls engrossing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    TimT said:

    BBC rejects race complaint about use of ‘nitty-gritty’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-rejects-race-complaint-about-use-of-nitty-gritty-zmq96nzvq

    But MOTD aren't allowed to use it.

    TBH, I had no idea that anyone associated that term with racism. Can you be racist for using a term that you had no idea was racist?
    Don't use the word "spook" on American chat-rooms unless wearing flame-retardent clothing.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Very strong vaccine figures.

    Regional

    East 62,169
    London 42,015 ???
    Midlands 84,163
    NE & Yorks 62,618
    North-West 60,255
    South East 63,109
    South West 49,197
    Not surprised that the Midlands has the highest numbers. I've heard from multiple sources that things are pretty well organised there.
    Though the combined East and West Midlands is presumably also the most populous of these counting areas?

    Glad to see improved numbers from the East of England. Hopefully this indicates that we've finished our tyre change and are speeding back out of the pit lane.

    Lord alone knows what's going on with London.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Tres said:

    12 months ago I was attending a talk by Sir David Spiegelhalter and in the Q&A afterwards he merrily pointed out how estimates of deaths from previous outbreaks like BSE/swine flu/bird flu etc. were order of magnitude greater than what had occured and therefore not to worry our heads about this outbreak of flu in China.

    Ha ... I have a high opinion of David Spiegelhalter, and of course his history is correct (tbf, he is a professional statistician not an epidemiologist).

    COVID is an exceptionally well-designed virus ... it has wrought more havoc than anyone could have ever imagined.
  • MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    Yes, great job!

    At what point is supply likely to limit the daily or weekly rate, does anyone have a feel for that?
    I don't think anybody truly knows, not even the government. Delivery and amounts is still unpredictable.
    Are you suggesting this government really knows about anything much?


    And good afternoon everybody. Who'd have thought I'd have found bowls engrossing.
    When it comes to this vaccine roll-out, they appear to. But the unknown factor every week is just how many doses AZN and Pfizer will send. The reports were AZN told the UK they would get 4 million doses this week, the updated reports are they only delivered 2 million.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    Professor Sridhar is, insofar as I'm aware, an exceptional case. Overt political bias does not seem to be a feature of the epidemiological community - whether amongst those in favour of the zero Covid strategy or otherwise.
    She's called the pandemic better than most. Certainly did not sign the intellectually lax and morally barren "Great Barrington Declaration". It's on the Right that political bias has destroyed scientific integrity.
    Is advocating for a Covid elimination strategy realistic for our circumstances? The Irish didn't even manage that, even though they've some history of going in earlier and harder with lockdowns and have arguably always been in a better position to achieve it.
    I don't think it's realistic, no. But it has integrity as a suggestion. If we could turn the clock back a few months it might have been the way to go.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    Yes, great job!

    At what point is supply likely to limit the daily or weekly rate, does anyone have a feel for that?
    My understanding is that we are supply limited from here on out, unless we get to seriously mad number of vaccinations per days - multiple millions.

    It seems (as far as I can tell) to have been the policy to ensure that the capability to deliver the vaccine to the public is greater than any possible supply. This seems to have been deliberate policy - so that any vaccine that we have, goes out immediately.
    The Toyota Management System in action. Who knew HMG was capable of it?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    Yes, great job!

    At what point is supply likely to limit the daily or weekly rate, does anyone have a feel for that?
    My understanding is that we are supply limited from here on out, unless we get to seriously mad number of vaccinations per days - multiple millions.

    It seems (as far as I can tell) to have been the policy to ensure that the capability to deliver the vaccine to the public is greater than any possible supply. This seems to have been deliberate policy - so that any vaccine that we have, goes out immediately.
    Politically wise. Imagine if it turned out the Government was sat on 7 days of supplies...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
    SpaceX launch in a few mins....
    They’re going for a record 143 satellites launched by one rocket.

    10 mins away from the start of the launch window.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=PSIcspDHbu0
    And its off.....bad weather....
    The interesting bit is that the launch is effectively free for the Starlink satellites. In fact they are probably making a good profit from the other satellites.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited January 2021

    MaxPB said:

    We should easily get to 500k on weekdays next week, even with slightly less supply than expected.

    Sterling job by the NHS, DoH and PHE.

    Yes, great job!

    At what point is supply likely to limit the daily or weekly rate, does anyone have a feel for that?
    My understanding is that we are supply limited from here on out, unless we get to seriously mad number of vaccinations per days - multiple millions.

    It seems (as far as I can tell) to have been the policy to ensure that the capability to deliver the vaccine to the public is greater than any possible supply. This seems to have been deliberate policy - so that any vaccine that we have, goes out immediately.
    Politically wise. Imagine if it turned out the Government was sat on 7 days of supplies...
    Given yesterdays numbers from Wales, I think even Captain Moron has worked out that isn't a good approach, medically or politically.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'd missed this - is it appropriate for an "expert" to block other experts?


    What the hell happened to scientists challenging and arguing with each other? It’s the whole basis of science - or at least it was, before science started to become political.
    Professor Sridhar is, insofar as I'm aware, an exceptional case. Overt political bias does not seem to be a feature of the epidemiological community - whether amongst those in favour of the zero Covid strategy or otherwise.
    She's called the pandemic better than most. Certainly did not sign the intellectually lax and morally barren "Great Barrington Declaration". It's on the Right that political bias has destroyed scientific integrity.
    Is advocating for a Covid elimination strategy realistic for our circumstances? The Irish didn't even manage that, even though they've some history of going in earlier and harder with lockdowns and have arguably always been in a better position to achieve it.
    You are of course correct. Devi Sridhar called for a zero COVID goal in Scotland.

    This may have been achievable, but absolutely not with the policies the Scottish Government actually followed -- as events subsequently showed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited January 2021

    TimT said:

    BBC rejects race complaint about use of ‘nitty-gritty’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-rejects-race-complaint-about-use-of-nitty-gritty-zmq96nzvq

    But MOTD aren't allowed to use it.

    TBH, I had no idea that anyone associated that term with racism. Can you be racist for using a term that you had no idea was racist?
    Don't use the word "spook" on American chat-rooms unless wearing flame-retardent clothing.
    Is "Oriental" deemed verboten in the UK these days? Because that is another you never want to use in the US. I believe it actually against the law to use it in official federal documents.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    edited January 2021
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If you need some excitement, World Indoor Bowls is on BBC2.

    What if that is a bit too much excitement to handle?
    SpaceX launch in a few mins....
    They’re going for a record 143 satellites launched by one rocket.

    10 mins away from the start of the launch window.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=PSIcspDHbu0
    We're sure this isn't a sinister plan for world domination?
    Required photo -

    image

    On a serious note -

    https://satellitemap.space

    Starlink coverage already.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368

    Tres said:

    12 months ago I was attending a talk by Sir David Spiegelhalter and in the Q&A afterwards he merrily pointed out how estimates of deaths from previous outbreaks like BSE/swine flu/bird flu etc. were order of magnitude greater than what had occured and therefore not to worry our heads about this outbreak of flu in China.

    Ha ... I have a high opinion of David Spiegelhalter, and of course his history is correct (tbf, he is a professional statistician not an epidemiologist).

    COVID is an exceptionally well-designed virus ... it has wrought more havoc than anyone could have ever imagined.
    Except COVID is not designed at all, it is evolved.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited January 2021
    Apparently the nitty gritty thing, it was one sodding person complaining....and got escalated all the way up the chain, because this person wouldn't accept that there wasn't an issue here.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9178325/BBC-rejects-complaint-against-Laura-Kuenssberg-saying-nitty-gritty.html
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,860

    Andy_JS said:

    MaxPB said:

    Very strong vaccine figures.

    Regional

    East 62,169
    London 42,015 ???
    Midlands 84,163
    NE & Yorks 62,618
    North-West 60,255
    South East 63,109
    South West 49,197
    Not surprised that the Midlands has the highest numbers. I've heard from multiple sources that things are pretty well organised there.
    Though the combined East and West Midlands is presumably also the most populous of these counting areas?

    Glad to see improved numbers from the East of England. Hopefully this indicates that we've finished our tyre change and are speeding back out of the pit lane.

    Lord alone knows what's going on with London.
    Is there a smaller proportion of oldies in London?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    edited January 2021
    TimT said:

    BBC rejects race complaint about use of ‘nitty-gritty’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-rejects-race-complaint-about-use-of-nitty-gritty-zmq96nzvq

    But MOTD aren't allowed to use it.

    TBH, I had no idea that anyone associated that term with racism. Can you be racist for using a term that you had no idea was racist?
    Well in ignorance people can say something very offensive, and treating people doing something offensive in ignorance with those doing it with malice would be wrong.

    But it doesn't seem like many people would ever think that term was offensive in the first place.

    TimT said:

    BBC rejects race complaint about use of ‘nitty-gritty’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-rejects-race-complaint-about-use-of-nitty-gritty-zmq96nzvq

    But MOTD aren't allowed to use it.

    TBH, I had no idea that anyone associated that term with racism. Can you be racist for using a term that you had no idea was racist?
    Don't use the word "spook" on American chat-rooms unless wearing flame-retardent clothing.
    Is "Oriental" deemed verboten in the UK these days? Because that is another you never want to use in the US. I believe it actually against the law to use it in official federal documents.
    I don't think it is considered generally acceptable anymore, though I don't think it would get as strong a reaction as that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169

    TimT said:

    BBC rejects race complaint about use of ‘nitty-gritty’

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bbc-rejects-race-complaint-about-use-of-nitty-gritty-zmq96nzvq

    But MOTD aren't allowed to use it.

    TBH, I had no idea that anyone associated that term with racism. Can you be racist for using a term that you had no idea was racist?
    Worse than that - these days one can be racist for using a term that isn't racist.
    Didn’t someone get in trouble for ‘niggardly’ last year?

    That’s as bad as spraying graffiti on the home of the paediatrician.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Slightly odd to be recruiting Nazi saluting dog defender of free speech guy to make your point.
    Ah, I didn't realise it was him.

    I shall exile myself to ConHome for the rest of the afternoon for my sins.
    It's a cesspit, apparently, ConHome. I was surprised to hear that. I'd assumed it was just a digital meeting place for tory activists.
    I feel like 'party activist' is one of those descriptors that has become indelibly linked with 'crazy partisan' for many people because of twitter and the like. Which is very unfair on most activists of course, who are good people.
    It is unfair. Giving up much of your spare time to advance the cause of any democratic non-yucky political party is imo laudable.
    Most of the time it is (or at least just a charmingly odd way for someone to spend their time). But those noisy, loathesome marginal political figures we hear so much about are so easily described as 'party activists', as they often not merely members, but not really senior, and they come to our attention for having done something stupid or horrible.

    It skews the picture.
    Well before the pandy I spent a bit of time mixing with Labour activists in my area and I certainly found them to be very good people. There were a couple of 60 something women who would get a bit intense about Israel - like Melanie Philips but in the opposite way - but apart from that, nothing offputting at all. Quite the opposite. Most of them were doing great altruistic unsung work in the community, that was their focus not politicking and machinating on party issues. I felt a dilettante by comparison. It's quite right imo that the activists have a lot of influence in the party.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited January 2021
    Daily Mail headline tomorrow when the vaccination figures are only 300k....

    "Vaccination programme in chaos as new daily vaccinations figures showing it has stalled"
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