Back to British politics for a change and a possible threat to Boris – politicalbetting.com
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Fewer fishermen than TopShop workers wasn't itPhilip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:
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Yes.noneoftheabove said:
Of course he would! It has made him PM, a job far above his talents should have allowed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Was it worth tearing apart the country for 5 years, the loss of jobs, rights and respect for the rule of law, the likely breakup of the union and already the separation of NI's economy from GBs?
Or even for the Tory party, the end of the party of pro business, from the party of reducing red tape to finding extra red tape everywhere, the shame of replacing the likes of Hammond, Gauke, Stewart and Clarke with Raab, Williamson and Rees Mogg?
Though hopefully the latter 3 should be replaced, they are weak links.0 -
You really are a sad deluded foolPhilip_Thompson said:
Yes.noneoftheabove said:
Of course he would! It has made him PM, a job far above his talents should have allowed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Was it worth tearing apart the country for 5 years, the loss of jobs, rights and respect for the rule of law, the likely breakup of the union and already the separation of NI's economy from GBs?
Or even for the Tory party, the end of the party of pro business, from the party of reducing red tape to finding extra red tape everywhere, the shame of replacing the likes of Hammond, Gauke, Stewart and Clarke with Raab, Williamson and Rees Mogg?
Though hopefully the latter 3 should be replaced, they are weak links.0 -
The answer to your question is what happens next and over the 3 years to GE 2024noneoftheabove said:
Of course he would! It has made him PM, a job far above his talents should have allowed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Was it worth tearing apart the country for 5 years, the loss of jobs, rights and respect for the rule of law, the likely breakup of the union and already the separation of NI's economy from GBs?
Or even for the Tory party, the end of the party of pro business, from the party of reducing red tape to finding extra red tape everywhere, the shame of replacing the likes of Hammond, Gauke, Stewart and Clarke with Raab, Williamson and Rees Mogg?
And I am not making any predictions as it could go either way
But what is certain, the vaccination decision is a big first win for Brexit0 -
Because, what, nobody would *really* care about other peoples' businesses being destroyed? I don't know whether it is you or HYUFD strengthens my resolve never ever to vote Conservative again more. We are well beyond the "see the back of Johnson and think again" stage.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:3 -
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Thread Header. The threat to Boris is there but they been banging about this plan to move out of 'lockdown' multiple times and there he is, fairly secure, so you have to wonder if its hot air from Baker.
According to Arlene Foster NI has now got the R rate down below 1. It was reportedly 1.8 when the when they announced the tight restrictions that came into effect on Boxing Day (the term lockdown makes it sound like an armed siege).
So basically cut in half in 2 and a bit weeks. Seems rather good that. Hospital admissions are expected to peak the next week to 10 days so I suspect we will bear this without having to dump the dead bodies out on the street.
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No it is true.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
Our UK constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament, even Holyrood is merely a creation of Westminster, Westminster remains supreme.0 -
Despite your snide comment, I do actually care for them. Losing your livelihood is devastating. The fact some fishermen were part-actors in their own destruction doesn't make that destruction any less tragic. It's worse than I was expecting and I never thought much of Brexit. These guys bought into the dream. Being taken for fools will make them feel even worse.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:0 -
I am not sure you are correct.HYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.
I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.1 -
Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort is facing court fines for a maskless New Year’s Eve party held at the Florida club in contravention of Covid-19 regulations.
The South Florida Sun-Sentinel reported Thursday that county officials issued “a stern warning” to the Palm Beach resort over the party and potential superspreader event, which Trump himself skipped out on when he cut short his winter holiday and returned to the White House to concentrate on efforts to overturn his election defeat.
“There was a breakdown in enforcement of the mask orders that led to almost the entire room of guests being without masks during the later evening activities,” Palm Beach administrators Todd Bonlarron and Patrick Rutter wrote to Mar-a-Lago managing director Bernd Lembcke.0 -
As a lifetime Man Utd supporter and season ticket holder for years until tempus fugit I can say he is a remarkable talent but this last few weeks has seen him underperforming, though I expect it is only a blip as he has real talent and is a great credit to himself and the clubnoneoftheabove said:
Whoscored have him as 12th best player in the Premier league this year, thats about his level (he should improve a bit further at his age), he is not underperforming.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would have no problem with that but in all this his football is suffering and he was taken off v BurnleyFrancisUrquhart said:BBC News - Marcus Rashford calls on PM for wider free school meal review
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55670096
I can see this ending in free school meals for all during term time and holidays.0 -
We know it is worth it for you. It is hard to say it is worth it to the country given negative matches positive plus unchanged combined and we could have spent the last five years improving our economy, environment and infrastructure instead of arguing amongst ourselves.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes.noneoftheabove said:
Of course he would! It has made him PM, a job far above his talents should have allowed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Was it worth tearing apart the country for 5 years, the loss of jobs, rights and respect for the rule of law, the likely breakup of the union and already the separation of NI's economy from GBs?
Or even for the Tory party, the end of the party of pro business, from the party of reducing red tape to finding extra red tape everywhere, the shame of replacing the likes of Hammond, Gauke, Stewart and Clarke with Raab, Williamson and Rees Mogg?
Though hopefully the latter 3 should be replaced, they are weak links.0 -
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.0 -
Yeah, well I've been warning of the threat to the seafood guys on here for a while. I also thought there would be probs for the demersal and pelagic boys as well but I didn't think BJ and his merry men would fuck it up quite so comprehensively.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:
From 'you lot' I think I prefer the 'tough luck, suck it up' argument over the 'these people just don't realise what a GREEEAAAT deal they have' one, at least it's cutting out the bullshit.2 -
We are not often on the same page but of course you are rightHYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Any idea UDI is legal is nonsense and importantly Nicola knows that1 -
Why has there been no update on the UK vacination figures today?Anabobazina said:
The Club Med Big Three are doing absolutely terribly. Really need Italy, France, Spain to up their game.another_richard said:Rather concerning that the rate of vaccinating in the best performing EU countries is either falling (Denmark) or flattening (Italy):
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
Suggests supply constraints.0 -
Just avoid the 'been on a round trip to Dover' seconds tray.Fairliered said:Planning a visit to the local fish shop / smokehouse / farm shop tomorrow. Their main business was selling fresh shellfish to Italy. Should I be looking for some bargains?
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Can you imagine the uproar North of the Border when an Independent, Independence Referendum is called and the Westminster Government ignore it. Support for Independence will go through the roof!HYUFD said:
No it is true.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
Our UK constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament, even Holyrood is merely a creation of Westminster, Westminster remains supreme.
Your boy might have saved the world from Covid, but he will have lost the Union.0 -
I'm not sure having our political establishment meddle in the economy, environment and infrastructure would have been beneficialnoneoftheabove said:
We know it is worth it for you. It is hard to say it is worth it to the country given negative matches positive plus unchanged combined and we could have spent the last five years improving our economy, environment and infrastructure instead of arguing amongst ourselves.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes.noneoftheabove said:
Of course he would! It has made him PM, a job far above his talents should have allowed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Was it worth tearing apart the country for 5 years, the loss of jobs, rights and respect for the rule of law, the likely breakup of the union and already the separation of NI's economy from GBs?
Or even for the Tory party, the end of the party of pro business, from the party of reducing red tape to finding extra red tape everywhere, the shame of replacing the likes of Hammond, Gauke, Stewart and Clarke with Raab, Williamson and Rees Mogg?
Though hopefully the latter 3 should be replaced, they are weak links. 1 -
Except - Cameron told us the result would be delivered as it would bind him.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Sturgeon is going to legally find the money for her "referendum" how, exactly?
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What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
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White fishermen were architects of their own destruction. West of Scotland creel fishermen were ignored as their views didn’t meet the BBC brexit view. They are the ones whose livelihoods are being destroyed. But they vote SNP, not tory, so they don’t matter.FF43 said:
Despite your snide comment, I do actually care for them. Losing your livelihood is devastating. The fact some fishermen were part-actors in their own destruction doesn't make that destruction any less tragic. It's worse than I was expecting and I never thought much of Brexit. These guys bought into the dream. Being taken for fools will make them feel even worse.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:0 -
She could "Crowdfund" itMarqueeMark said:
Except - Cameron told us the result would be delivered as it would bind him.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Sturgeon is going to legally find the money for her "referendum" how, exactly?0 -
In the last couple of weeks your results include two 1-0 wins where he scored the winner and got the assist in the other, and you have climbed to the top of the table. Perhaps you have been spoilt by watching the likes of Ronaldo, Giggs et al.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a lifetime Man Utd supporter and season ticket holder for years until tempus fugit I can say he is a remarkable talent but this last few weeks has seen him underperforming, though I expect it is only a blip as he has real talent and is a great credit to himself and the clubnoneoftheabove said:
Whoscored have him as 12th best player in the Premier league this year, thats about his level (he should improve a bit further at his age), he is not underperforming.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would have no problem with that but in all this his football is suffering and he was taken off v BurnleyFrancisUrquhart said:BBC News - Marcus Rashford calls on PM for wider free school meal review
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55670096
I can see this ending in free school meals for all during term time and holidays.1 -
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Any idea UDI is legal is nonsense and importantly Nicola knows that
The post was about a referendum
Nippy can hold a referendum. BoZo can't stop her.
And advisory referendum would have the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.
These are facts.1 -
None as far as I know unless using government funds may be an issueAlistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
However, to gain international recognisation it would need to go through the parliamentary process0 -
Fungible? Funny gibberish.Philip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
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The EU referendum apparently cost £130 million to organise and run. That was for an electorate of a smidgen under 50 million.MarqueeMark said:
Except - Cameron told us the result would be delivered as it would bind him.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Sturgeon is going to legally find the money for her "referendum" how, exactly?
The Scottish electorate is just under 4 million. Less than 10%. Lets assume it is more expensive to run an election in Scotland than England per elector because of the sparseness of the electorate over much of the country. So you are probably looking at say £20 million to run it.
I would suggest that If Sturgeon chose to run an appeal for money to pay for it from the independence supporting general population she would rise that money pretty quickly.0 -
When (and if) Trump is pardoned is the great unknown. He is leaving it very late and any job-swap with Pence may have been kiboshed and a self-pardon is legally dubious. That said, we can't bet on it so who cares? Ironically, Trump's best hope might be that Biden will pardon him in order to free up time in the Senate and stop dictators poiting and laughing at America.noneoftheabove said:0 -
And Bobby Charlton, George Best, Dennis Law to name a few legendsnoneoftheabove said:
In the last couple of weeks your results include two 1-0 wins where he scored the winner and got the assist in the other, and you have climbed to the top of the table. Perhaps you have been spoilt by watching the likes of Ronaldo, Giggs et al.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a lifetime Man Utd supporter and season ticket holder for years until tempus fugit I can say he is a remarkable talent but this last few weeks has seen him underperforming, though I expect it is only a blip as he has real talent and is a great credit to himself and the clubnoneoftheabove said:
Whoscored have him as 12th best player in the Premier league this year, thats about his level (he should improve a bit further at his age), he is not underperforming.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would have no problem with that but in all this his football is suffering and he was taken off v BurnleyFrancisUrquhart said:BBC News - Marcus Rashford calls on PM for wider free school meal review
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55670096
I can see this ending in free school meals for all during term time and holidays.
Even Duncan Edwards and Tommy Taylor, and now I am showing my age
But Marcus has dropped form over the last few weeks and most supporters know, this is temporary, he is a class footballer and wonderful person0 -
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.0 -
Probably not in the medium term. If the Independents get a clear win then they have won the PR battle pretty much before it starts. And recognition is all about PR.Big_G_NorthWales said:
None as far as I know unless using government funds may be an issueAlistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
However, to gain international recognisation it would need to go through the parliamentary process3 -
Why would a Biden pardon "free up time in the Senate"? Presidential pardons specifically do not apply to impeachments, and any other prosecution of Trump would be through the regular federal and/or state courts.DecrepiterJohnL said:
When (and if) Trump is pardoned is the great unknown. He is leaving it very late and any job-swap with Pence may have been kiboshed and a self-pardon is legally dubious. That said, we can't bet on it so who cares? Ironically, Trump's best hope might be that Biden will pardon him in order to free up time in the Senate and stop dictators poiting and laughing at America.noneoftheabove said:0 -
Whatever. These guys have been stuffed and appear to be pretty desperate. There is little they can do about their situation now. You have to feel for them.Fairliered said:
White fishermen were architects of their own destruction. West of Scotland creel fishermen were ignored as their views didn’t meet the BBC brexit view. They are the ones whose livelihoods are being destroyed. But they vote SNP, not tory, so they don’t matter.FF43 said:
Despite your snide comment, I do actually care for them. Losing your livelihood is devastating. The fact some fishermen were part-actors in their own destruction doesn't make that destruction any less tragic. It's worse than I was expecting and I never thought much of Brexit. These guys bought into the dream. Being taken for fools will make them feel even worse.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:1 -
Potentially the Scotland Act but that question would no doubt end up in the Supreme Court.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
If the Supreme Court rules that an advisory referendum is legal (it could but no guarantee of that) the idea that can be just ignored is ridiculous. Heck if the SNP win a majority it would be ridiculous not to have a referendum and it seems Boris and Gove know that deep down too.0 -
Tonight CH4 had a Scottish fisherman just about greetin' over laying up his boat and crew, followed by a clip of Rees-Mogg and his British fish bullshit. Made me want to throw something at the telly, can only imagine what an actual fisherman would feel.FF43 said:
Despite your snide comment, I do actually care for them. Losing your livelihood is devastating. The fact some fishermen were part-actors in their own destruction doesn't make that destruction any less tragic. It's worse than I was expecting and I never thought much of Brexit. These guys bought into the dream. Being taken for fools will make them feel even worse.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:2 -
Brexit went through Parliament or have you been in denial this last 12 monthsScott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Any idea UDI is legal is nonsense and importantly Nicola knows that
The post was about a referendum
Nippy can hold a referendum. BoZo can't stop her.
And advisory referendum would have the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.
These are facts.1 -
Lots of people have no faith in SDteve Baker.1
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s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.Mexicanpete said:
I am not sure you are correct.HYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.
I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.1 -
He's been in denial the last five years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Brexit went through Parliament or have you been in denial this last 12 monthsScott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Any idea UDI is legal is nonsense and importantly Nicola knows that
The post was about a referendum
Nippy can hold a referendum. BoZo can't stop her.
And advisory referendum would have the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.
These are facts.1 -
Given how rapidly and meekly he retracted, one of those many people is ... Steve Baker.theakes said:Lots of people have no faith in SDteve Baker.
0 -
“Shit happens”, to quote our Philip directly.IshmaelZ said:
Because, what, nobody would *really* care about other peoples' businesses being destroyed? I don't know whether it is you or HYUFD strengthens my resolve never ever to vote Conservative again more. We are well beyond the "see the back of Johnson and think again" stage.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:1 -
As I do and indy2 needs to take place in 2022 2023 in my opinionPhilip_Thompson said:
Potentially the Scotland Act but that question would no doubt end up in the Supreme Court.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
If the Supreme Court rules that an advisory referendum is legal (it could but no guarantee of that) the idea that can be just ignored is ridiculous. Heck if the SNP win a majority it would be ridiculous not to have a referendum and it seems Boris and Gove know that deep down too.1 -
Hypothetically, if an advisory referendum were won by Yes, do you think the Westminster Parliament would defy the 'will of the people'?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Brexit went through Parliament or have you been in denial this last 12 monthsScott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Any idea UDI is legal is nonsense and importantly Nicola knows that
The post was about a referendum
Nippy can hold a referendum. BoZo can't stop her.
And advisory referendum would have the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.
These are facts.0 -
Precisely the opposite.Mexicanpete said:
Can you imagine the uproar North of the Border when an Independent, Independence Referendum is called and the Westminster Government ignore it. Support for Independence will go through the roof!HYUFD said:
No it is true.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
Our UK constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament, even Holyrood is merely a creation of Westminster, Westminster remains supreme.
Your boy might have saved the world from Covid, but he will have lost the Union.
Catalonia remains part of Spain today with support for independence falling because PM Rajoy in 2017 respected Spain's constitution and refused to allow a legal Catalan independence referendum despite high support for independence and ignored a UDI by the Catalan government.
Had he not done so and given in to the Catalan Nationalists then Catalonia would now be independent and not part of Spain.0 -
Probably not breaking any law. But pointless since (i) unionists would boycott it, (ii) the UK government would ignore it, and (iii) if a "victory" denied went to the law courts they would throw it out as ultra vires.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
1 -
Not one of his best days.BluestBlue said:
Given how rapidly and meekly he retracted, one of those many people is ... Steve Baker.theakes said:Lots of people have no faith in SDteve Baker.
0 -
Advisory referendums are legal. As demonstrated in 2016.
If Scotland holds such a referendum, and votes for Independence, we then get to enjoy English Tories telling us why the opinion of voters to leave can be discarded and ignored.
Should be a laugh.1 -
I believe indyref2 should take place without the controversy of an advisory referendumwilliamglenn said:
Hypothetically, if an advisory referendum were won by Yes, do you think the Westminster Parliament would defy the 'will of the people'?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Brexit went through Parliament or have you been in denial this last 12 monthsScott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Any idea UDI is legal is nonsense and importantly Nicola knows that
The post was about a referendum
Nippy can hold a referendum. BoZo can't stop her.
And advisory referendum would have the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.
These are facts.
And as I said 2022 2023 likely timing post covid0 -
We look forward with great anticipation to watching whatever immensely safe Tory seat you inhabit flip red or yellow then.IshmaelZ said:
Because, what, nobody would *really* care about other peoples' businesses being destroyed? I don't know whether it is you or HYUFD strengthens my resolve never ever to vote Conservative again more. We are well beyond the "see the back of Johnson and think again" stage.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:1 -
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Brexit went through Parliament
What legal weight did the Brexit referendum have?
None.0 -
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BDS is a serious and acute conditionScott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Brexit went through Parliament
What legal weight did the Brexit referendum have?
None.2 -
There's an Smarkets market on an auto pardon. No 1.4, yes 2.8. He won't do it.DecrepiterJohnL said:
When (and if) Trump is pardoned is the great unknown. He is leaving it very late and any job-swap with Pence may have been kiboshed and a self-pardon is legally dubious. That said, we can't bet on it so who cares? Ironically, Trump's best hope might be that Biden will pardon him in order to free up time in the Senate and stop dictators poiting and laughing at America.noneoftheabove said:1 -
BoZo denial syndrome?Big_G_NorthWales said:BDS is a serious and acute condition
Get some help then...0 -
An advisory referendum is advisory.HYUFD said:
s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.Mexicanpete said:
I am not sure you are correct.HYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.
I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.2 -
-
Can't you feel his pain? Piquantly exquisite.Big_G_NorthWales said:
BDS is a serious and acute conditionScott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Brexit went through Parliament
What legal weight did the Brexit referendum have?
None.
3 -
It was legislated for by the one body who had the jurisdiction to do it. It really is that simple.Scott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Brexit went through Parliament
What legal weight did the Brexit referendum have?
None.
4 -
0
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I've been predicting this on PB for over a year. About the likely plight of most Scots fishermen.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:0 -
I am in no need of helpScott_xP said:
BoZo denial syndrome?Big_G_NorthWales said:BDS is a serious and acute condition
Get some help then...-1 -
He gets a free pass.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
It's like @Richard_Tyndall said down thread, Nippy wins the PR war, Nippy wins Independence, perhaps not immediately, but it's in the bag.geoffw said:
Probably not breaking any law. But pointless since (i) unionists would boycott it, (ii) the UK government would ignore it, and (iii) if a "victory" denied went to the law courts they would throw it out as ultra vires.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
1 -
A load of shite. If the constitution isn't written it doesn't exist, except in your fantasies and those of Mr Rees-Mogg.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.0 -
The Brexit denialists are determined to go down with the BoZo ship on this one...Mexicanpete said:It's like @Richard_Tyndall said down thread, Nippy wins the PR war, Nippy wins Independence, perhaps not immediately, but it's in the bag.
1 -
-
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem...Big_G_NorthWales said:I am in no need of help
0 -
Or not, as the case may be.Mexicanpete said:
It's like @Richard_Tyndall said down thread, Nippy wins the PR war, Nippy wins Independence, perhaps not immediately, but it's in the bag.geoffw said:
Probably not breaking any law. But pointless since (i) unionists would boycott it, (ii) the UK government would ignore it, and (iii) if a "victory" denied went to the law courts they would throw it out as ultra vires.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
0 -
And for that reason, the courts would not uphold it as a legal expenditure by Government.geoffw said:
Probably not breaking any law. But pointless since (i) unionists would boycott it, (ii) the UK government would ignore it, and (iii) if a "victory" denied went to the law courts they would throw it out as ultra vires.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
0 -
Yopu certainly don't give a shite for the Spanish when you go on and on about invading the poor chaps when they reclaim Gibraltar on exactly the same logic as you assert English superemacy over Scotland - just because they/you say so.HYUFD said:
Precisely the opposite.Mexicanpete said:
Can you imagine the uproar North of the Border when an Independent, Independence Referendum is called and the Westminster Government ignore it. Support for Independence will go through the roof!HYUFD said:
No it is true.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
Our UK constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament, even Holyrood is merely a creation of Westminster, Westminster remains supreme.
Your boy might have saved the world from Covid, but he will have lost the Union.
Catalonia remains part of Spain today with support for independence falling because PM Rajoy in 2017 respected Spain's constitution and refused to allow a legal Catalan independence referendum despite high support for independence and ignored a UDI by the Catalan government.
Had he not done so and given in to the Catalan Nationalists then Catalonia would now be independent and not part of Spain.0 -
..but it is based on precedent. And the process to obtain a section 30 to hold the referendum was the process.Carnyx said:
A load of shite. If the constitution isn't written it doesn't exist, except in your fantasies and those of Mr Rees-Mogg.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.0 -
He has talked plenty of nonsense about advisory referendums and more besides, but that doesn't excuse competing with nonsense about constitutions not existing because of a term like unwritten being taken too literally. I find it hard to believe you think the constitution (and you say the, not a specific part) doesn't exist because people used the term unwritten.Carnyx said:
A load of shite. If the constitution isn't written it doesn't exist, except in your fantasies and those of Mr Rees-Mogg.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.0 -
Not even a Barnett consequential.MarqueeMark said:
And for that reason, the courts would not uphold it as a legal expenditure by Government.geoffw said:
Probably not breaking any law. But pointless since (i) unionists would boycott it, (ii) the UK government would ignore it, and (iii) if a "victory" denied went to the law courts they would throw it out as ultra vires.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
0 -
2016's EU referendum was only legal with Westminster approval and it was held 46 years after the previous EEC referendum ie a genuine generationRochdalePioneers said:Advisory referendums are legal. As demonstrated in 2016.
If Scotland holds such a referendum, and votes for Independence, we then get to enjoy English Tories telling us why the opinion of voters to leave can be discarded and ignored.
Should be a laugh.0 -
By definition the Supreme Court cannot ignore statute law and the Scotland Act 1998 which reserves Union matters to WestminsterPhilip_Thompson said:
Potentially the Scotland Act but that question would no doubt end up in the Supreme Court.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
If the Supreme Court rules that an advisory referendum is legal (it could but no guarantee of that) the idea that can be just ignored is ridiculous. Heck if the SNP win a majority it would be ridiculous not to have a referendum and it seems Boris and Gove know that deep down too.0 -
Except that that itself was unprecedented. So ...Razedabode said:
..but it is based on precedent. And the process to obtain a section 30 to hold the referendum was the process.Carnyx said:
A load of shite. If the constitution isn't written it doesn't exist, except in your fantasies and those of Mr Rees-Mogg.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
Anyway, good night all. I'm off to relax and do something else, before the fantasy tanks come out.0 -
-
To the EU's eternal shame the Catalan politicians had to face prison or hi-tail it to Belgium. I suspect it is not over yet.HYUFD said:
Precisely the opposite.Mexicanpete said:
Can you imagine the uproar North of the Border when an Independent, Independence Referendum is called and the Westminster Government ignore it. Support for Independence will go through the roof!HYUFD said:
No it is true.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
Our UK constitution is based on the sovereignty of Crown in Parliament, even Holyrood is merely a creation of Westminster, Westminster remains supreme.
Your boy might have saved the world from Covid, but he will have lost the Union.
Catalonia remains part of Spain today with support for independence falling because PM Rajoy in 2017 respected Spain's constitution and refused to allow a legal Catalan independence referendum despite high support for independence and ignored a UDI by the Catalan government.
Had he not done so and given in to the Catalan Nationalists then Catalonia would now be independent and not part of Spain.
Johnson is perfectly entitled to do what you suggest, but then you are just a step away from rolling your English tanks into Gretna Green.0 -
Such irony from you of all peopleScott_xP said:
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem...Big_G_NorthWales said:I am in no need of help
2 -
Two, more like.HYUFD said:
2016's EU referendum was only legal with Westminster approval and it was held 46 years after the previous EEC referendum ie a genuine generationRochdalePioneers said:Advisory referendums are legal. As demonstrated in 2016.
If Scotland holds such a referendum, and votes for Independence, we then get to enjoy English Tories telling us why the opinion of voters to leave can be discarded and ignored.
Should be a laugh.
0 -
Bujt it gives priority to Scots law on matters handed up from the Scottish courts, as ytou should remember full well from the attempts of your party to close down democracy in the UK. And that matter is still untested.HYUFD said:
By definition the SC cannot ignore statute and the Scotland Act 1998 which reserves Union matters to WestminsterPhilip_Thompson said:
Potentially the Scotland Act but that question would no doubt end up in the Supreme Court.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
If the Supreme Court rules that an advisory referendum is legal (it could but no guarantee of that) the idea that can be just ignored is ridiculous. Heck if the SNP win a majority it would be ridiculous not to have a referendum and it seems Boris and Gove know that deep down too.0 -
Did you vote Tory in 2019 when the Tories won a majority of 80? If not, I could not care lessIshmaelZ said:
Because, what, nobody would *really* care about other peoples' businesses being destroyed? I don't know whether it is you or HYUFD strengthens my resolve never ever to vote Conservative again more. We are well beyond the "see the back of Johnson and think again" stage.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:0 -
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.0 -
Now that really is a steaming heap of logical chimpanzee faeces with a "generation" shoehorned into it like a Flake in a chocolatye ice cream.HYUFD said:
2016's EU referendum was only legal with Westminster approval and it was held 46 years after the previous EEC referendum ie a genuine generationRochdalePioneers said:Advisory referendums are legal. As demonstrated in 2016.
If Scotland holds such a referendum, and votes for Independence, we then get to enjoy English Tories telling us why the opinion of voters to leave can be discarded and ignored.
Should be a laugh.1 -
"doing well"?!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he's got a deal, multiple vaccines and is doing well in his job now why should he go imminently?kinabalu said:
But it used to be he should go when he'd delivered Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not doubt than Boris is a big factor and it is why when covid is on the wain I would like to see Rishi as PMFF43 said:It is impressive that the explosion in support for independence is so closely aligned with Boris Johnson's premiership.
TheScreamingEagles said:
This is starting to feel a bit like a journey towards the horizon.
How do you define this??
I find the Boris-hating Remainers and lefties quite tedious, but I would also struggle to pinpoint anything Boris has done "well".
It's a hideous plague. No one in the Western world, absent the antipodes, has done "well". The best that can be said for Boris is that he's not as boring as Starmer. That's it, really.0 -
No, the SC also confirmed Holyrood has no legal power to stop Brexit, only Westminster can do that.Carnyx said:
Bujt it gives priority to Scots law on matters handed up from the Scottish courts, as ytou should remember full well from the attempts of your party to close down democracy in the UK. And that matter is still untested.HYUFD said:
By definition the SC cannot ignore statute and the Scotland Act 1998 which reserves Union matters to WestminsterPhilip_Thompson said:
Potentially the Scotland Act but that question would no doubt end up in the Supreme Court.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
If the Supreme Court rules that an advisory referendum is legal (it could but no guarantee of that) the idea that can be just ignored is ridiculous. Heck if the SNP win a majority it would be ridiculous not to have a referendum and it seems Boris and Gove know that deep down too.
That is why Boris was impotent with no Westminster majority, now with a Westminster majority of 80 Boris is all powerful0 -
I'm aware there are collections of laws, and customs, but it;s not a formal constitution in the US sense. HYUFD is only using it in the desperate attempot to claim that the laws of England (sic) are as immutable as the laws of the Medes and the Persians, which they are not, as they can be changed.kle4 said:
He has talked plenty of nonsense about advisory referendums and more besides, but that doesn't excuse competing with nonsense about constitutions not existing because of a term like unwritten being taken too literally. I find it hard to believe you think the constitution (and you say the, not a specific part) doesn't exist because people used the term unwritten.Carnyx said:
A load of shite. If the constitution isn't written it doesn't exist, except in your fantasies and those of Mr Rees-Mogg.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.0 -
Constitutionally it is not.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.
What Westminster says goes0 -
Corbynistas in Bristol...
When will city taxpayers find out why Bristol Energy failed and how much of their money was lost?
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/truth-about-bristol-energy-failure-4886214.amp0 -
If you think that, you are mistaken, and you could well wind up commanding one of HYUFD's tank squadrons in the forthcoming invasion.geoffw said:
Or not, as the case may be.Mexicanpete said:
It's like @Richard_Tyndall said down thread, Nippy wins the PR war, Nippy wins Independence, perhaps not immediately, but it's in the bag.geoffw said:
Probably not breaking any law. But pointless since (i) unionists would boycott it, (ii) the UK government would ignore it, and (iii) if a "victory" denied went to the law courts they would throw it out as ultra vires.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
0
This discussion has been closed.