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Back to British politics for a change and a possible threat to Boris – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited January 2021
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    You can take or leave the assumptions behind this analysis - they are debatable - but the general thrust is plausible. The death rate will be cut rapidly as the most vulnerable are vaccinated; the hospitalisation rate will be cut roughly in half and will only come down further as the general population is vaccinated over a longer timeframe.

    As hospitals are beyond capacity right now this suggests to me that significant social distancing measures will still be required months after the vulnerable group are vaccinated. There will be an argument about this.

    https://twitter.com/henryhtapper/status/1348903187324006401

    Groups 1-4 will finish vaccinating in the middle of Feb. Does this model just assume vaccination will stop then?
    It's only looking at groups 1-4, I'd actually like to see that taken forwards for the whole country.
    It can't be just looking at 1-4, as the cases are still at 80% after they've all been vaccinated.
    14 million people is near as darn it 20% of the population.

    So COVID will be raging along in the other 80% of the population, even if those 14 million are 95% protected.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Poor Rudy, he's being set up as the patsy by Trump isn't he?

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1349768565931593729

    Trump to use hiring Giuliani as evidence of insanity?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Completely pointless while Portugal still has a completely open border with Brazil and Spain with the rest of SA.
    And presumably the Irish, with at least 50% of their Covid being Cockney, are still allowed in?

    It does reveal great anxiety, however

    Yup. The EU needs to have a single border policy, the UK does too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    You can take or leave the assumptions behind this analysis - they are debatable - but the general thrust is plausible. The death rate will be cut rapidly as the most vulnerable are vaccinated; the hospitalisation rate will be cut roughly in half and will only come down further as the general population is vaccinated over a longer timeframe.

    As hospitals are beyond capacity right now this suggests to me that significant social distancing measures will still be required months after the vulnerable group are vaccinated. There will be an argument about this.

    https://twitter.com/henryhtapper/status/1348903187324006401

    Groups 1-4 will finish vaccinating in the middle of Feb. Does this model just assume vaccination will stop then?
    I turn 60 in March. I am convinced that will be the point for switching from vaccinating over-60s to under-60s and I will miss out.
    The class of '61 seems disproportionately represented on here. Perhaps we should have a joint party in the summer.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Good news - and a reminder of how toxic Corbyn was:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1349774795844554754?s=20
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    MaxPB said:

    Completely pointless while Portugal still has a completely open border with Brazil and Spain with the rest of SA.
    What about Ireland? Oh, the CTA innit.

  • People from Sunderland, Teesside etc really love being called Geordies.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    rpjs said:

    Poor Rudy, he's being set up as the patsy by Trump isn't he?

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1349768565931593729

    Trump to use hiring Giuliani as evidence of insanity?
    If he was insane then Pence can replace him.

    I think the point is more - I wasn't the reason they stormed the Capitol, did you hear what Giuliani said - my comments were far milder.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    You can take or leave the assumptions behind this analysis - they are debatable - but the general thrust is plausible. The death rate will be cut rapidly as the most vulnerable are vaccinated; the hospitalisation rate will be cut roughly in half and will only come down further as the general population is vaccinated over a longer timeframe.

    As hospitals are beyond capacity right now this suggests to me that significant social distancing measures will still be required months after the vulnerable group are vaccinated. There will be an argument about this.

    https://twitter.com/henryhtapper/status/1348903187324006401

    Groups 1-4 will finish vaccinating in the middle of Feb. Does this model just assume vaccination will stop then?
    I turn 60 in March. I am convinced that will be the point for switching from vaccinating over-60s to under-60s and I will miss out.
    The class of '61 seems disproportionately represented on here. Perhaps we should have a joint party in the summer.
    Yes you young 'uns better enjoy yourselves while you're still in the pink.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    edited January 2021
    eek said:

    Mortimer said:

    Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    Yes, I'm pretty much the opposite of a Baker Fan Boy, but he's a useful outrider in keeping government under pressure on exit strategy. We have seen on here that many seek to reduce covid risk to near zero, rather than balance it with other risks.

    Baker asking for a timetable is probably a bit previous given we haven't yet got the data we need, but I'd rather have that pressure on than not.
    This is exactly the position of the rebels on the right. In the absence of any opposition from Labour to endless lockdowns, the fiscal hawks want to ensure enough pressure is kept on the Govt.

    It is from the right that the pressure for 24/7 vaccinations have come. It was from the right that the pressure for parliamentary scrutiny of new regs has come.

    The right are driving better decision making. Starmer might learn something from that....if he wasn't dominated by the union position.
    Regrettable as I find it, I think you have a point.
    24/7 vaccinations are insane - opening enough sites so that all vaccines arriving are used within an 8/12 hour day is a far better plan.

    The right isn't driving better decision making they are just throwing mud and seeing what makes the news.
    The only caveat is possibly with the Pfizer vaccine, where the cold storage requirements might make running a smaller number of sites more intensively a better option than opening more sites.

    Otherwise more sites wins every time over 24 hour vaccinations.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    You can take or leave the assumptions behind this analysis - they are debatable - but the general thrust is plausible. The death rate will be cut rapidly as the most vulnerable are vaccinated; the hospitalisation rate will be cut roughly in half and will only come down further as the general population is vaccinated over a longer timeframe.

    As hospitals are beyond capacity right now this suggests to me that significant social distancing measures will still be required months after the vulnerable group are vaccinated. There will be an argument about this.

    https://twitter.com/henryhtapper/status/1348903187324006401

    Groups 1-4 will finish vaccinating in the middle of Feb. Does this model just assume vaccination will stop then?
    It's only looking at groups 1-4, I'd actually like to see that taken forwards for the whole country.
    It can't be just looking at 1-4, as the cases are still at 80% after they've all been vaccinated.
    14 million people is near as darn it 20% of the population.

    So COVID will be raging along in the other 80% of the population, even if those 14 million are 95% protected.
    I do worry about people's understanding of this point. "95% protected" doesn't mean every individual has 95% protection; it means 95% of people will have protection. So if ~10m old people get the jab, wait two weeks and then assumed they are free to resume their normal lives without any precautions, we could see some pretty horrible things start to happen.

    Quick back of an envelope calc suggests max ~100k deaths possible as a result if the message doesn't get through that you still need to isolate, and that's assuming 95% effectiveness after a single jab. Actually, I wonder if this was a factor in deciding to delay the second jab to 12 weeks - to make it easier to persuade people that they still aren't protected and need to stay inside?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Endillion said:

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    You can take or leave the assumptions behind this analysis - they are debatable - but the general thrust is plausible. The death rate will be cut rapidly as the most vulnerable are vaccinated; the hospitalisation rate will be cut roughly in half and will only come down further as the general population is vaccinated over a longer timeframe.

    As hospitals are beyond capacity right now this suggests to me that significant social distancing measures will still be required months after the vulnerable group are vaccinated. There will be an argument about this.

    https://twitter.com/henryhtapper/status/1348903187324006401

    Groups 1-4 will finish vaccinating in the middle of Feb. Does this model just assume vaccination will stop then?
    It's only looking at groups 1-4, I'd actually like to see that taken forwards for the whole country.
    It can't be just looking at 1-4, as the cases are still at 80% after they've all been vaccinated.
    14 million people is near as darn it 20% of the population.

    So COVID will be raging along in the other 80% of the population, even if those 14 million are 95% protected.
    I do worry about people's understanding of this point. "95% protected" doesn't mean every individual has 95% protection; it means 95% of people will have protection. So if ~10m old people get the jab, wait two weeks and then assumed they are free to resume their normal lives without any precautions, we could see some pretty horrible things start to happen.

    Quick back of an envelope calc suggests max ~100k deaths possible as a result if the message doesn't get through that you still need to isolate, and that's assuming 95% effectiveness after a single jab. Actually, I wonder if this was a factor in deciding to delay the second jab to 12 weeks - to make it easier to persuade people that they still aren't protected and need to stay inside?
    Even if you've had the jab you can still be infected and spread it around even if you are not yourself affected by it.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Just when I thought today was going quite well

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1349776993106219010?s=20
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    geoffw said:
    Aspirin is an NSAID.

    I used to take NSAIDs daily for an autoimmune condition, and it wouldn't even cross my mind that they don't reduce antibody response - dampening the immune system response is literally what they're supposed to do. I'm unclear why this wasn't obvious.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    Endillion said:

    geoffw said:
    Aspirin is an NSAID.

    I used to take NSAIDs daily for an autoimmune condition, and it wouldn't even cross my mind that they don't reduce antibody response - dampening the immune system response is literally what they're supposed to do. I'm unclear why this wasn't obvious.
    Oh - thanks. Slaps forehead.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Breaking - Toby's been done by IPSO for saying that getting a cold gives protection against Covid.

    He has not had a good pandemic.

    Ahhhh. To by Young, foolish again.
    I've been defending Toadmeister over the last few months but it's difficult this time.
    Tough mission and I don't blame you for bailing out. But tbf if you follow him on Twitter - as I guess you do - he probably doesn't look as big a plank to you as he does to most people. Because you are exposed to all his output not just the bad stuff. You get to see the gems as well as the dross.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    edited January 2021
    Leon said:

    Just when I thought today was going quite well

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1349776993106219010?s=20

    "76 per cent of people in Manaus had contracted coronavirus by October"
    and
    "at least one person who caught the virus in the first wave has been infected with the new variant. "

    Sense of proportion?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    eek said:

    Mortimer said:

    Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    Yes, I'm pretty much the opposite of a Baker Fan Boy, but he's a useful outrider in keeping government under pressure on exit strategy. We have seen on here that many seek to reduce covid risk to near zero, rather than balance it with other risks.

    Baker asking for a timetable is probably a bit previous given we haven't yet got the data we need, but I'd rather have that pressure on than not.
    This is exactly the position of the rebels on the right. In the absence of any opposition from Labour to endless lockdowns, the fiscal hawks want to ensure enough pressure is kept on the Govt.

    It is from the right that the pressure for 24/7 vaccinations have come. It was from the right that the pressure for parliamentary scrutiny of new regs has come.

    The right are driving better decision making. Starmer might learn something from that....if he wasn't dominated by the union position.
    Regrettable as I find it, I think you have a point.
    24/7 vaccinations are insane - opening enough sites so that all vaccines arriving are used within an 8/12 hour day is a far better plan.

    The right isn't driving better decision making they are just throwing mud and seeing what makes the news.
    The only caveat is possibly with the Pfizer vaccine, where the cold storage requirements might make running a smaller number of sites more intensively a better option than opening more sites.

    Otherwise more sites wins every time over 24 hour vaccinations.
    The question is later in the vaccination program - making getting the vaccine very, vey convenient. Because we need the highest possible take-up.

    This is why it is sensible to look at the practicalities of this now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,271
    So there is actually a swing to No since the last poll
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    Just when I thought today was going quite well

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1349776993106219010?s=20

    "76 per cent of people in Manaus had contracted coronavirus by October"
    and
    "at least one person who caught the virus in the first wave has been infected with the new variant. "

    Sense of proportion?
    If it bleeds, it leads.

    If it doesn't bleed.. get a razor....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited January 2021
    BBC news at 6 still managing to put a negative spin on good vaccination numbers. Focusing on the difference in regions.
  • Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    Mortimer said:

    Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    Yes, I'm pretty much the opposite of a Baker Fan Boy, but he's a useful outrider in keeping government under pressure on exit strategy. We have seen on here that many seek to reduce covid risk to near zero, rather than balance it with other risks.

    Baker asking for a timetable is probably a bit previous given we haven't yet got the data we need, but I'd rather have that pressure on than not.
    This is exactly the position of the rebels on the right. In the absence of any opposition from Labour to endless lockdowns, the fiscal hawks want to ensure enough pressure is kept on the Govt.

    It is from the right that the pressure for 24/7 vaccinations have come. It was from the right that the pressure for parliamentary scrutiny of new regs has come.

    The right are driving better decision making. Starmer might learn something from that....if he wasn't dominated by the union position.
    Regrettable as I find it, I think you have a point.
    Given we now seem to agree on everything (and I saw your very kind words last night too), I assume you're a big pineapple on pizza fan, too?
  • HYUFD said:

    So there is actually a swing to No since the last poll
    Miniscule
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    edited January 2021

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....

    This was a shot across the bows. To remind Boris that you can't run a country by ONLY listening to the science. Or you can, but you'll be ousted by the party in short order.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    eek said:

    Mortimer said:

    Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    Yes, I'm pretty much the opposite of a Baker Fan Boy, but he's a useful outrider in keeping government under pressure on exit strategy. We have seen on here that many seek to reduce covid risk to near zero, rather than balance it with other risks.

    Baker asking for a timetable is probably a bit previous given we haven't yet got the data we need, but I'd rather have that pressure on than not.
    This is exactly the position of the rebels on the right. In the absence of any opposition from Labour to endless lockdowns, the fiscal hawks want to ensure enough pressure is kept on the Govt.

    It is from the right that the pressure for 24/7 vaccinations have come. It was from the right that the pressure for parliamentary scrutiny of new regs has come.

    The right are driving better decision making. Starmer might learn something from that....if he wasn't dominated by the union position.
    Regrettable as I find it, I think you have a point.
    24/7 vaccinations are insane - opening enough sites so that all vaccines arriving are used within an 8/12 hour day is a far better plan.

    The right isn't driving better decision making they are just throwing mud and seeing what makes the news.
    The only caveat is possibly with the Pfizer vaccine, where the cold storage requirements might make running a smaller number of sites more intensively a better option than opening more sites.

    Otherwise more sites wins every time over 24 hour vaccinations.
    The question is later in the vaccination program - making getting the vaccine very, vey convenient. Because we need the highest possible take-up.

    This is why it is sensible to look at the practicalities of this now.
    Later in the vaccination program just add more vaccination sites.

    There is zero point doing 24/7 far more worthwhile going to a supermarket and doing all the staff there in 1 swoop.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,271
    edited January 2021
    Carnyx said:

    geoffw said:

    Gordon Brown next leader of SLAB, you read it here first, and probably only here.

    Ian Murray, anyone? If having a Westminster MP as Scottish Leader is good enough for the Tories...
    They'd be better off selecting Andy Murray..... He's on the look-out for a new career.
    Andy's Pro-Indy...
    Provocative thought: would Labour do worse with a pro-indy leader? Seems like a good chuck of their base has migrated to the SNP in the last 10-15 years.
    Dunno, but the Scons would do better.

    By how much? Who's still voting for Labour these days? Probably not those whose main concern is the union. And with people turning away from the Conservatives, would it do more than slightly reduce the flow back from the Conservatives?
    I don't know, these are just questions. Doesn't seem like an obviously bad idea from a purely electoral calculus.
    Still quite a few unionists - IIRC the recednt poll said 38% of SLAB votyers would vote for independence but I can't remember how many were DK. Which means that the SLAB leader can't win except by promising to support a referendum and freedom of conscience, I suppose. Of course, SLAB MSPs will go ape as many are despoerate for the cursus honorum (as they see it) that ends in the HoL.
    So 62% of SLab voters oppose independence and indyref2, so obviously the new SLab leader will have to be a Unionist like the majority of their voters.

    If they are going to get Tory tactical votes v the SNP they will also need to stick to an anti independence line.

    Fortunately both likely successors, Sarwar and Ballie, take a stronger anti indyref2 line than Leonard did and both have ruled out any indyref2 for the rest of this Parliament

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18880342.scottish-labour--will-oppose-indyref2-2026/

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/jackie-baillie-scottish-labour-must-oppose-independence-and-indyref2-2005263
  • Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
  • Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    https://twitter.com/EightyFivePoint/status/1349725331977089024?s=19

    You should see Liverpool's data analytic team.

    Ian Graham PhD in Theoretical Physics from Cambridge, Tim Waskett, an astrophysicist, and Will Spearman has like ten degrees and worked for NASA.

    That's just the head of the data team, they've got dozens of staff as well.
    Physicists not statisticians. Is Dominic Cummings head of HR at Liverpool? :wink:
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
  • HYUFD said:
    Considering its the children's equivalent of Die Hard there's 11 months for them to do it if they're going to do so.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....

    This was a shot across the bows. To remind Boris that you can't run a country by ONLY listening to the science. Or you can, but you'll be ousted by the party in short order.
    That was probably the idea behind the planned relaxation of the rules around Christmas. That doesn't seem to have gone so well, even with the last minute tightening up.
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    HYUFD said:
    Oh that's just dumb. How about his cameo in Ghosts Can't Do It while we're at it?
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Ditto.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?
    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1349755355954372614
    I'm not a fan, but he would overshadow Keir Starmer.
    That'd be peak Broontervention.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited January 2021
    The solution to the problem of fishing folk not being able to send fresh fish to the EU is for the UK to rejoin the EU now. As that clearly won't happen there is in fact no solution to their problem. Fishing folk have two options:
    • Give up. Which I think a biggish number will do.
    • Hang on while the systems get up to speed, maybe get some support from government, and hope they don't permanently lose too many EU customers. After that accept a very substantial cost to business and lower incomes.
    It's grim and worse than I was expecting it to be.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?
    I wonder why Leonard has resigned now with most polls showing some Labour recovery in Scotland - Comres earlier today had them back in second place.
  • HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?
    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1349755355954372614
    I'm not a fan, but he would overshadow Keir Starmer.
    So does a pot plant.

    The bigger question surely is whether he would overshadow Marcus Rashford?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    I'm neither a member nor a voter, but I think Mr Baker should lie down in a darkened room for some time.
    This isn't the time to be raising opening up plans.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    You also don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends. I'm not convinced you have much leverage over Steve Baker either.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited January 2021
    FF43 said:

    The solution to the problem of fishing folk not being able to send fresh fish to the EU is for the UK to rejoin the EU now. As that is clearly won't happen there is in fact no solution to the problem. Fishing folk have two options:

    • Give up. Which I think a biggish number will do.
    • Hang on while the systems get up to speed, maybe get some support from government, and hope they don't permanently lose too many EU customers. After that accept a very substantial cost to business and lower incomes.
    It's grim and worse than I was expecting it to be.
    I was listening to the head of a haulage company in Eyemouth who confirmed the issues, but while annoyed he did seem to think that it would be resolved shortly.

    Time for Rishi to step in with compensation while it is being sorted
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,271
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?
    I wonder why Leonard has resigned now with most polls showing some Labour recovery in Scotland - Comres earlier today had them back in second place.
    The Tories were still 2nd on the constituency poll and SLab was still polling below what it got in 2016 in the final poll of Leonard's leadership today
  • Endillion said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    You also don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends. I'm not convinced you have much leverage over Steve Baker either.
    He sort of does actually. The MPs take into account how they think the members will vote, what they think - and what voters do too - in weighing up how they act themselves in leadership votes.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited January 2021
    Endillion said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    You also don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends. I'm not convinced you have much leverage over Steve Baker either.
    I have a vote but more importantly he has been slapped down by fellow his mps as he made a quick retraction
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Gordon Brown next leader of SLAB, you read it here first, and probably only here.

    Ian Murray, anyone? If having a Westminster MP as Scottish Leader is good enough for the Tories...
    They'd be better off selecting Andy Murray..... He's on the look-out for a new career.
    Andy's Pro-Indy...
    Provocative thought: would Labour do worse with a pro-indy leader? Seems like a good chuck of their base has migrated to the SNP in the last 10-15 years.
    Such people might as well join the SNP!
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?
    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1349755355954372614
    I'm not a fan, but he would overshadow Keir Starmer.
    So does a pot plant.

    The bigger question surely is whether he would overshadow Marcus Rashford?
    That is a bit fictitious from our most partizan fan boy of Johnson on here.
    Who defends him on every subject.
  • Endillion said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    You also don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends. I'm not convinced you have much leverage over Steve Baker either.
    I have a vote
    That's what matters in the end.

    Millions of lifelong Conservatives going on strike from the party last year is what ended May's Premiership, not an MP VoNC.
  • Gordon Brown next leader of SLAB, you read it here first, and probably only here.

    Ian Murray, anyone? If having a Westminster MP as Scottish Leader is good enough for the Tories...
    They'd be better off selecting Andy Murray..... He's on the look-out for a new career.
    Andy's Pro-Indy...
    So are quite a lot of SLab voters, so..
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    eek said:

    Mortimer said:

    Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    Yes, I'm pretty much the opposite of a Baker Fan Boy, but he's a useful outrider in keeping government under pressure on exit strategy. We have seen on here that many seek to reduce covid risk to near zero, rather than balance it with other risks.

    Baker asking for a timetable is probably a bit previous given we haven't yet got the data we need, but I'd rather have that pressure on than not.
    This is exactly the position of the rebels on the right. In the absence of any opposition from Labour to endless lockdowns, the fiscal hawks want to ensure enough pressure is kept on the Govt.

    It is from the right that the pressure for 24/7 vaccinations have come. It was from the right that the pressure for parliamentary scrutiny of new regs has come.

    The right are driving better decision making. Starmer might learn something from that....if he wasn't dominated by the union position.
    Regrettable as I find it, I think you have a point.
    24/7 vaccinations are insane - opening enough sites so that all vaccines arriving are used within an 8/12 hour day is a far better plan.

    The right isn't driving better decision making they are just throwing mud and seeing what makes the news.
    The only caveat is possibly with the Pfizer vaccine, where the cold storage requirements might make running a smaller number of sites more intensively a better option than opening more sites.

    Otherwise more sites wins every time over 24 hour vaccinations.
    The question is later in the vaccination program - making getting the vaccine very, vey convenient. Because we need the highest possible take-up.

    This is why it is sensible to look at the practicalities of this now.
    Very few people will find a time in the early hours more convenient than a location closer to them.

    This is just like polling stations. We have loads of polling stations open 7am-10pm. If you halved the number of polling stations to have them open 24 hours it would make it harder to vote for most people rather than easier.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Oh that's just dumb. How about his cameo in Ghosts Can't Do It while we're at it?
    Well I'd be more likely to watch a Trump free version. Although I probably still wouldn't unless there was nothing on the other channels.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    HYUFD said:
    Considering its the children's equivalent of Die Hard there's 11 months for them to do it if they're going to do so.
    Far more fun to think where they could *add* a Trump cameo appropriately. :smile:
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    You also don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends. I'm not convinced you have much leverage over Steve Baker either.
    He sort of does actually. The MPs take into account how they think the members will vote, what they think - and what voters do too - in weighing up how they act themselves in leadership votes.
    Sure, a Labour voter in a swing seat probably has more sway than a Tory member in a safe seat, given that it isn't particularly easy to deselect sitting Tory MPs. In either case, it's a second order effect.
  • Good news - and a reminder of how toxic Corbyn was:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1349774795844554754?s=20

    The anti-Covid nasal spray is a more significant story.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Ditto.
    You're a Tory MEMBER as well as voter !!
  • HYUFD:
    We'll need a more mobile set of goalposts!!
  • justin124 said:

    Gordon Brown next leader of SLAB, you read it here first, and probably only here.

    Ian Murray, anyone? If having a Westminster MP as Scottish Leader is good enough for the Tories...
    They'd be better off selecting Andy Murray..... He's on the look-out for a new career.
    Andy's Pro-Indy...
    Provocative thought: would Labour do worse with a pro-indy leader? Seems like a good chuck of their base has migrated to the SNP in the last 10-15 years.
    Such people might as well join the SNP!
    They have!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Have you not stated on quite a few occasions that you wish to see Johnson depart pretty soon?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Blimey, are you a Tory MP Big G? You hid that well!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    You also don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends. I'm not convinced you have much leverage over Steve Baker either.
    I have a vote but more importantly he has been slapped down by fellow his mps as he made a quick retraction
    So do I - on who replaces him. If you remember from a couple of years ago, the vote of no confidence is triggered by letters to Graham Brady, and then voted on by simple majority. In both cases, MPs only. And then the defeated leader can't then stand again in the subsequent election.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?
    I wonder why Leonard has resigned now with most polls showing some Labour recovery in Scotland - Comres earlier today had them back in second place.
    The Tories were still 2nd on the constituency poll and SLab was still polling below what it got in 2016 in the final poll of Leonard's leadership today
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?

    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1349759811706101761?s=20

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?
    I wonder why Leonard has resigned now with most polls showing some Labour recovery in Scotland - Comres earlier today had them back in second place.
    The Tories were still 2nd on the constituency poll and SLab was still polling below what it got in 2016 in the final poll of Leonard's leadership today
    But it did show Labour back as the second largest party in the Scottish Parliament .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,891
    kinabalu said:

    Breaking - Toby's been done by IPSO for saying that getting a cold gives protection against Covid.

    He has not had a good pandemic.

    Blimey you have to come out with a real whopper to get the wrong side of IPSO as a journalist.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited January 2021

    FF43 said:

    The solution to the problem of fishing folk not being able to send fresh fish to the EU is for the UK to rejoin the EU now. As that is clearly won't happen there is in fact no solution to the problem. Fishing folk have two options:

    • Give up. Which I think a biggish number will do.
    • Hang on while the systems get up to speed, maybe get some support from government, and hope they don't permanently lose too many EU customers. After that accept a very substantial cost to business and lower incomes.
    It's grim and worse than I was expecting it to be.
    I was listening to the head of a haulage company in Eyemouth who confirmed the issues, but while annoyed he did seem to think that it would be resolved shortly.

    Time for Rishi to step in with compensation while it is being sorted
    I think there is a dozen or so new bureaucratic steps to get fresh food into the EU. Some of the issues with them relate to immature systems; some are due to a lack of resources (those missing customs agents etc), some a lack of experience in the new bureaucracy. Eventually people who are prepared to put with this stuff will get on top of it, but it doesn't look a few days' project. More like six months or more. Where are those fishing boats and companies going to be at that point?

    Including this one, that doesn't get mentioned in the Border Operating Model, probably because those writing didn't know about it.

    https://twitter.com/ColdChainShane/status/1349701828762599424
  • kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Ditto.
    You're a Tory MEMBER as well as voter !!
    Since 2004, except for when Theresa May was leader.
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I don't think Johnson has much to worry about. Starmer has done everything but wear an 'I love Boris' badge.

    BluestBlue. If you persist in 'liking' my posts I will have to consider my options . As I'm sure you understand the reputational damage is enormous
    I apologise for not joining BluestBlue in liking that, I'll try to work harder on joining the reputation bandwagon for you.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited January 2021
    justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Have you not stated on quite a few occasions that you wish to see Johnson depart pretty soon?
    It is not Boris I am defending here, it is outright rejection of Bakers comments
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Blimey, are you a Tory MP Big G? You hid that well!
    No - but I have had my chances and am in touch with several
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,239
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Breaking - Toby's been done by IPSO for saying that getting a cold gives protection against Covid.

    He has not had a good pandemic.

    Blimey you have to come out with a real whopper to get the wrong side of IPSO as a journalist.
    Well, that’s Toby Young for you. Weirdly I think he asks a lot of the right questions. The trouble lies in the part where he doesn’t seem to be interested whether his answers are true or not.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,166

    BBC news at 6 still managing to put a negative spin on good vaccination numbers. Focusing on the difference in regions.

    Declinists.
  • Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    You also don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends. I'm not convinced you have much leverage over Steve Baker either.
    I have a vote but more importantly he has been slapped down by fellow his mps as he made a quick retraction
    So do I - on who replaces him. If you remember from a couple of years ago, the vote of no confidence is triggered by letters to Graham Brady, and then voted on by simple majority. In both cases, MPs only. And then the defeated leader can't then stand again in the subsequent election.
    On the subject Baker has raised I am 100% behind Boris and he will drive more doubters to Boris if he continues his views
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Farknell Big G you are a member still? After all that whining and moaning? Wowsers.
  • Sort of on topic I have heard the handling of Covid-19 has triggered at least five letters to Sir Graham Brady, with a few more keeping their powders dry.

    It hasn't been easy defending the indefensible then seeing the government performing u-turn after u-turn.

    Plenty of Tory MPs know voting against the free schools meal thing will come back to haunt them at the next election even before Boris Johnson committed his u turns.

    The perception around contracts for mates is something that is also being noted.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Farknell Big G you are a member still? After all that whining and moaning? Wowsers.
    If you're not a member, you can't threaten to resign....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited January 2021
    It is impressive that the explosion in support for independence is so closely aligned with Boris Johnson's premiership. It really takes off in the summer of 2019 and doesn't look back.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    I can't quite work this out. But there was a thing in reporting the court case over the need for anonymity for his accusers. Is this the issue here? i.e. submitting the documents may well breach that anonymity.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sky

    Steve Baker's coup lasted two hours

    How to misjudge the politics over covid

    SB understands the politics around Covid much better than Sky do....
    Maybe that is why he withdrew his comments almost as soon as he had made them
    Sky don't get a say in when Boris' leadership ends.

    The constituency Baker is speaking to very much do.
    And I am a member and reject his intervention
    Farknell Big G you are a member still? After all that whining and moaning? Wowsers.
    If you're not a member, you can't threaten to resign....
    And he can only resign once. (Unless he goes and rejoins just in case.)
  • So true, let's hope SLab rise to the challenge as they've done several times before.

    https://twitter.com/PeatWorrier/status/1349780911240458241?s=20
  • FF43 said:

    It is impressive that the explosion in support for independence is so closely aligned with Boris Johnson's premiership.



    I do not doubt than Boris is a big factor and it is why when covid is on the wain I would like to see Rishi as PM
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Sort of on topic I have heard the handling of Covid-19 has triggered at least five letters to Sir Graham Brady, with a few more keeping their powders dry.

    It hasn't been easy defending the indefensible then seeing the government performing u-turn after u-turn.

    Plenty of Tory MPs know voting against the free schools meal thing will come back to haunt them at the next election even before Boris Johnson committed his u turns.

    The perception around contracts for mates is something that is also being noted.

    There was a time, we may still be in it, when you could be certain that a policy endorsed by a minister as not changing in the morning would be reversed within days.

    That surely is not a good place for a government to be. And not good for an MP to be a member of such a government.
  • FF43 said:

    It is impressive that the explosion in support for independence is so closely aligned with Boris Johnson's premiership. It really takes off in the summer of 2019 and doesn't look back.



    The liftoff in Yes support clearly begins in the autumn of 2017 and continues from there.
  • alednamalednam Posts: 186
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Breaking - Toby's been done by IPSO for saying that getting a cold gives protection against Covid.

    He has not had a good pandemic.

    Blimey you have to come out with a real whopper to get the wrong side of IPSO as a journalist.
    But if you've set up the Freedom-to-lie-Union, you might not be aware that even IPSO has to step in sometimes.
  • FF43 said:

    It is impressive that the explosion in support for independence is so closely aligned with Boris Johnson's premiership. It really takes off in the summer of 2019 and doesn't look back.



    I mentioned earlier the moment Boris Johnson made himself Minister for the Union support for Scottish Independence has surged.

    He's Minister for Scottish Independence more like.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I don't think Johnson has much to worry about. Starmer has done everything but wear an 'I love Boris' badge.

    BluestBlue. If you persist in 'liking' my posts I will have to consider my options . As I'm sure you understand the reputational damage is enormous
    Roger, I only 'liked' your post because PB has no 'love' button.

    I hope that clarifies my position.
  • With the resignation of Richard Leonard, Scottish Labour must choose within this pool

    Jackie Baillie
    Claire Baker
    Claudia Beamish
    Neil Bibby
    Sarah Boyack
    James Kelly
    Daniel Johnson
    Mark Griffin
    Rhoda Grant
    Monica Lennon
    Pauline McNeill
    Alex Rowley
    Anas Sarwar
    Colin Smyth

    Their recent "we thought we reached our lowest point but the new one managed to drop further" tradition may still continue at this rate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871



    The perception around contracts for mates is something that is also being noted.

    Their mates missing out?
  • Carnyx said:

    I can't quite work this out. But there was a thing in reporting the court case over the need for anonymity for his accusers. Is this the issue here? i.e. submitting the documents may well breach that anonymity.
    I think the implication may be that various aspects of Salmond's behaviour over the years have been known to Sturgeon which would certainly be a sticky wicket for her. However that would mean AS admitting to actions so reprehensible that Sturgeon should have been duty bound to act on the information.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    So true, let's hope SLab rise to the challenge as they've done several times before.

    https://twitter.com/PeatWorrier/status/1349780911240458241?s=20

    Concidentally, I spotted an earlier tweet -linking to a recent paper re anonymity for complainants re sexual offences being actually unknown to Scots Law. Which is a big surprise to me, if correct (can't see it all).

    https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/elr.2020.0658
  • Carnyx said:

    I can't quite work this out. But there was a thing in reporting the court case over the need for anonymity for his accusers. Is this the issue here? i.e. submitting the documents may well breach that anonymity.
    That's one of the issues I thought it might be referencing.

    There maybe a confidentially clause in the deal he agreed with the Scottish government.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/13/alex-salmond-awarded-512000-payout-after-botched-investigation
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited January 2021

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I don't think Johnson has much to worry about. Starmer has done everything but wear an 'I love Boris' badge.

    BluestBlue. If you persist in 'liking' my posts I will have to consider my options . As I'm sure you understand the reputational damage is enormous
    Roger, I only 'liked' your post because PB has no 'love' button.

    I hope that clarifies my position.
    Incorrect, there are several topics that excite PB's collective love button so it must exist.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,166
    HYUFD said:
    Only possible because of streaming. People with hard copies on VHS or DVD will be able to continue watching the original version.
  • Sort of on topic I have heard the handling of Covid-19 has triggered at least five letters to Sir Graham Brady, with a few more keeping their powders dry.

    It hasn't been easy defending the indefensible then seeing the government performing u-turn after u-turn.

    Plenty of Tory MPs know voting against the free schools meal thing will come back to haunt them at the next election even before Boris Johnson committed his u turns.

    The perception around contracts for mates is something that is also being noted.

    Five?

    Were they all by Charles Walker or did Brady send one to himself?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,271

    HYUFD:
    We'll need a more mobile set of goalposts!!
    Of course in reality even if the SNP got 100% in May Boris would still not grant them indyref2, even if politically that might be challenging he is not going to even consider granting any indyref unless No is back clearly in front.

    He will stick to his line 2014 was a once in a generation vote and as Westminster is sovereign nothing Sturgeon can do about it until the next UK general election in 2024 when she has to hope Starmer needs her support to govern
This discussion has been closed.