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Back to British politics for a change and a possible threat to Boris – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Not sure why things will speed dramatically when they get to the over 60s. The Times source suggests that is because pharmacies will be involved. Why aren't they involved before then?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:
    Another place that was often reported to have handled the first wave fairly well, with all the big tech bros pushing the lockdowns.
    Hang on.

    SoCal is Hollywood, not tech,

    Northern California is Silicon Valley and big tech and San Francisco. They are doing a lot better than we are.
    I was talking about California as a whole.
    Fair enough, but it is worth noting that they've done much better in the SF/Bay Area than in Los Angeles. (Which surprises me, because the weather is much worse up there, and people are much more dependent on public transport.)

    I just looked at the California dashboard (https://covid19.ca.gov/state-dashboard/) and was staggered to discover that 55% of Covid cases in California are Latino, against 20% for Whites.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    North Korea showing off their latest missiles.

    https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1349843604488007686?s=21

    Damn. @Leon must have a hell of a time knapping all of those by hand.
    I wouldn't strike the pointy bit at the front too vigorously.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    1,250 deaths, says Sky
  • How come these wiped records aren't backed up somewhere?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    Toby Young is worth listening to on some issues, but not others.

    James Delingpole isn't worth listening to on any issue.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    rcs1000 said:

    Floater said:
    Another place that was often reported to have handled the first wave fairly well, with all the big tech bros pushing the lockdowns.
    Hang on.

    SoCal is Hollywood, not tech,

    Northern California is Silicon Valley and big tech and San Francisco. They are doing a lot better than we are.
    Hollywood seems to have been able to get a lot of exceptions. There was a video a few months ago of a restaurant owner in tears because she had to shut down while a film studio set up huge tents nearby.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    For comparison, Germany now reporting 1,088 deaths

    Germany is having a bad second wave
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited January 2021
    Flanner said:

    For crying out loud, Mike: stop pandering to the loonies

    The issue's clear. The country seems to love Johnson: but only like it loved Churchill in Jan 45. So the instant that threat's gone, they'll kick the fuckwit out.

    This time's different, though. Johnson's stopped food arriving in Britain because - well, who the fuck knows? He promised the day after the Referendum he'd stay in the Single Market, even though only Commie dickheads supported the EU. And since then, not a single fucking deal he's negotiated gives us any kind of advantage we didn't have before.

    So the instant we stop worrying about the thousands of unnecessary deaths his fuckwit chums have dumped on us, he'll be out - like the fuckwits who joined him in the fuckwittery of leaving the Single Market.

    That's all anyone needs to know.

    Johnson's obsession with never telling the truth if he can invent a lie is all well and good. But only fuckwits leave the Single Market: even the fucking Norwegians want to stay in, in spite of being both the thickest and richest people in Europe.

    So we'll be back in the Single Market the moment we're not distracted by the biggest death toll in human memory

    Something even the peabrained actuaries who infest this site would realise if they switched their pea brains on for a second.

    SO STOP FUCKING HUMOURING THEM

    Just disappointing it needs pointing out.
  • Is Darren the stupidest of all the grifter progeny of Brexit?

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1349690629077532674?s=21

    He may well be.

    However, he could be right. Either way, this is another reason why vouchers are better than food parcels.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    Not sure why things will speed dramatically when they get to the over 60s. The Times source suggests that is because pharmacies will be involved. Why aren't they involved before then?

    Presumably, the younger people are, the easier for them to get there under their own steam.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840
    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Mortimer said:

    The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.

    BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.
    Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan government
    I am not sure you are correct.

    Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.

    I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.
    s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.
    No one is denying that. If Nippy calls a Referendum and wins, Johnson is perfectly entitled to reject it. However it would look bad!
    Boris would not give a shit, it would look far worse for him if he allowed a referendum that risked him being the PM who lost the Union and he only has 6 Scottish MPs anyway.

    He will be the PM who lost the Union. No hiding place.
    He won't if he refuses a legal indyref as long as he is PM or he will pass the ball to Starmer in 2024 who if he needs SNP support to become PM may have to concede with a devomax offer to try and win it
    But that will be one of those spectacular "assists" that are remembered more than the tap in.

    He'll be the man who lost the union. No way round this. It's written.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    All over 50s done by end March!!!

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1349845527236587520/photo/1

    The government are really pushing...it seems like a deliberate strategy to keep introducing these new stretch targets. I like it. If only they did this with other things.
    Well sure sometimes it works, but sometimes just escalting your previous promises does not work, just as the South Sea Company.
  • If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Derby Arena mass vaccination centre had no supply for two days this week says local news.

    Let's hope these are teething troubles with supply.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Mortimer said:

    The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.

    BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.
    Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan government
    I am not sure you are correct.

    Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.

    I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.
    s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.
    No one is denying that. If Nippy calls a Referendum and wins, Johnson is perfectly entitled to reject it. However it would look bad!
    Boris would not give a shit, it would look far worse for him if he allowed a referendum that risked him being the PM who lost the Union and he only has 6 Scottish MPs anyway.

    He will be the PM who lost the Union. No hiding place.
    He won't if he refuses a legal indyref as long as he is PM or he will pass the ball to Starmer in 2024 who if he needs SNP support to become PM may have to concede with a devomax offer to try and win it
    But that will be one of those spectacular "assists" that are remembered more than the tap in.

    He'll be the man who lost the union. No way round this. It's written.
    No sorry. History doesn't work like that. Cameron is now remembered for Brexit, even though most of the problems and errors that led to it were not his doing,

    Major is remembered for the ERM debacle, even tho, etc

    If it happens on your watch, you get the blame.

    Boris will be remembered for Covid and Actual Brexit. We have yet to see how history will judge him, so far the auguries are not great but he has time, maybe, to redeem.

    He will fend off indyref2 and give to his successor, who will, very probably, have to grasp the thistle. He or she will live or die thereby
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    Knighthoods for everyone involved if that is the case.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited January 2021
    I have to ask surely they have a backup....

    If not heads really should rule starting at the appropriate chief constable.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    Knighthoods for everyone involved if that is the case.
    2022 will be a good year to do a mass number of honours anyway, what with it being the 70th anniversary of the accession of our most glorious monarch.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Cases wildly accelerating in Spain. 36.000 today, close to a new pandemic record

    Their sluggishness in rolling out the vaccine is..... bewildering
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840

    Is Darren the stupidest of all the grifter progeny of Brexit?

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1349690629077532674?s=21

    Lozza is not Isaac Newton.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Leon said:

    Cases wildly accelerating in Spain. 36.000 today, close to a new pandemic record

    Their sluggishness in rolling out the vaccine is..... bewildering

    You can't give people something that you don't have? And most of europe doesn't have any vaccine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Is Darren the stupidest of all the grifter progeny of Brexit?

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1349690629077532674?s=21

    I feel like Grimes is the equivalent of those obscure, radical accounts that people on the right like to quote to show how crazy the left are, as he seem to be brought up exclusively by people who don't like him.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh wow, Brexit turns out to be all about tearing up workers' rights. Who could have predicted that?
    Why should workers have rights anyway? Just do your work and shut up. The robots are coming. You are lucky to have a job at all. Frankly
    I'll be surprised if the Government enacts these measures as advertised but the thing about Brexit is that a Tory Government could deregulate things like this and then a Labour government come back in two-three years later and put them straight back in again, or even strengthen them further.

    Thats kind of the point.
    Except that there was an explicit pledge in the 2019 Conservative manifesto to "raise standards in areas like workers' rights", and "we will legislate to ensure high standards of workers' rights".

    So is the point to overturn manifesto commitments? Surely not?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    The blame game is truly underway now.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/14/brexiteers-blamed-problems-warned/

    We Brexiteers are being blamed for the problems we warned about

    As problems mount for UK businesses, both in dealing with mainland Europe and regarding Northern Ireland, don’t be surprised if Brexit and Brexiteers get the blame for what is a failure of Government, as the possibility of reintegration via the backdoor looms.
  • Derby Arena mass vaccination centre had no supply for two days this week says local news.

    Let's hope these are teething troubles with supply.

    3.8 million doses arriving next week.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    Foxy said:

    Half done...not done until the booster dose.
    First shot by end of March. Second shot by end of June. Holiday by end of July?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh wow, Brexit turns out to be all about tearing up workers' rights. Who could have predicted that?
    Why should workers have rights anyway? Just do your work and shut up. The robots are coming. You are lucky to have a job at all. Frankly
    I'll be surprised if the Government enacts these measures as advertised but the thing about Brexit is that a Tory Government could deregulate things like this and then a Labour government come back in two-three years later and put them straight back in again, or even strengthen them further.

    Thats kind of the point.
    Was it in the Tory manifesto? If not, what mandate do they have? Personally I'd rather governments didn't have the opportunity to take away my rights with no democratic mandate.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722
    I saw this and thought of you @Theuniondivvie


  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997
    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    Nearly 300,000 administered on Wednesday.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh wow, Brexit turns out to be all about tearing up workers' rights. Who could have predicted that?
    Why should workers have rights anyway? Just do your work and shut up. The robots are coming. You are lucky to have a job at all. Frankly
    ... As they didn't say on the side of the bus.
  • kle4 said:

    Is Darren the stupidest of all the grifter progeny of Brexit?

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1349690629077532674?s=21

    I feel like Grimes is the equivalent of those obscure, radical accounts that people on the right like to quote to show how crazy the left are, as he seem to be brought up exclusively by people who don't like him.
    I feel obliged to bring Dazza up after one former PB poster described him as the intelligent young face of the right.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    I respect Steve Baker standing up for his views, much as I disagree with them I'm sure they are sincerely held, but this is political madness. Even if he has the votes from MPs to trigger a VoNC there's no way he has the numbers to win one. This issue, as OGH says, isn't one in which he'll have the public on his side or even the membership I strongly suspect. He's sticking his head way above the parapet on perhaps the weakest issue he could find. It's just not going to work.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh wow, Brexit turns out to be all about tearing up workers' rights. Who could have predicted that?
    Why should workers have rights anyway? Just do your work and shut up. The robots are coming. You are lucky to have a job at all. Frankly
    I'll be surprised if the Government enacts these measures as advertised but the thing about Brexit is that a Tory Government could deregulate things like this and then a Labour government come back in two-three years later and put them straight back in again, or even strengthen them further.

    Thats kind of the point.
    Was it in the Tory manifesto? If not, what mandate do they have? Personally I'd rather governments didn't have the opportunity to take away my rights with no democratic mandate.
    Manifestoes don't give a mandate anyway - when a government wants to do something in it which people really don't like they don't stop opposing it because it was in there, and they do things like point out that people don't agree with everything in a manifesto so you cannot assume everyone who voted for you supports it and provides a mandate for it.

    Better than nothing, but awfully limited.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    edited January 2021
    From yesterday..

    Required vaccination rate (UK) is now 331,197 first doses per day to hit the 13.9 million first dose target by the end of February 15th.

    This is a correction of my earlier post that used England figures.

    After today the required vaccination rate has ticked up to 332,780 first doses per day.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    Alistair said:
    Even I laughed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    kle4 said:

    Is Darren the stupidest of all the grifter progeny of Brexit?

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1349690629077532674?s=21

    I feel like Grimes is the equivalent of those obscure, radical accounts that people on the right like to quote to show how crazy the left are, as he seem to be brought up exclusively by people who don't like him.
    I feel obliged to bring Dazza up after one former PB poster described him as the intelligent young face of the right.
    Could still be true, judging on a scale.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    One would expect, assuming other vaccines are approved and supply continues to ramp up, that the pace of vaccinations will keep rising. One would also expect R to fall as more people are vaccinated - even if the protection is only partial.

    I don't know about you, @Foxy, but I'm feeling increasingly optimistic about the world.

    Basically: cheer up man!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    kle4 said:

    Is Darren the stupidest of all the grifter progeny of Brexit?

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1349690629077532674?s=21

    I feel like Grimes is the equivalent of those obscure, radical accounts that people on the right like to quote to show how crazy the left are, as he seem to be brought up exclusively by people who don't like him.
    I feel obliged to bring Dazza up after one former PB poster described him as the intelligent young face of the right.
    "Dazza"?

    You can do better than that. It only elicits a minor *Ugh*.

    After all , you're the guy who warned us about "PROBS FOR THE DEMERSAL AND PELAGIC BOYS" so I feel a similar level of scrotum-tighteningly cringeworthy "I like Drill even tho I'm 80" fake matey yoof creole is required here.

    Ta, fam
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    Yes... but don't forget that 80% of the doses we're going to be giving out in the next few months will be AZN, which is much mess efficacious.
  • UK vaccinations

    11/01 166,474
    12/01 223,726
    13/01 288,688

    England vaccinations

    11/01 140,441
    12/01 187,645
    13/01 248,177

    Northern Ireland vaccinations

    11/01 7,521
    12/01 9,782
    13/01 12,454

    Scotland vaccinations

    11/01 12,664
    12/01 16,156
    13/01 16,442

    Wales vaccinations

    11/01 5,218
    12/01 10,143
    13/01 11,615

    Hopefully today's snow will not have affected things much.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    edited January 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    Yes... but don't forget that 80% of the doses we're going to be giving out in the next few months will be AZN, which is much mess efficacious.
    That is uncertain. As I understand it. Oxford-AZ's efficacy is "good", it may be "very good". We don't know yet
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    Leon said:

    Cases wildly accelerating in Spain. 36.000 today, close to a new pandemic record

    Their sluggishness in rolling out the vaccine is..... bewildering

    I think the phrase you are looking for is “fucking shit”.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    279k first jabs, 288k total jabs done yesterday. That's a reasonably good figure, another 70-80k on top and we'll smash through that target and if we do get to 500k per day next week as they are planning the we'll be down to group six or seven by the middle of Feb.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    To get that figure, the first 2 weeks after the first injection are ignored, and the week after the second injection added in, so based on very small numbers. The Confidence Intervals are high, and we do not know yet how long the immunity lasts. The AZN vaccine is noticeably lower protection after the first dose.

    We should know by the end of Feb how reliable a single dose is, particularly in the elderly, who do mount a more feeble response to vaccines in general.

    If the gamble comes off, plaudits all round, but if it doesn't...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh wow, Brexit turns out to be all about tearing up workers' rights. Who could have predicted that?
    Why should workers have rights anyway? Just do your work and shut up. The robots are coming. You are lucky to have a job at all. Frankly
    I'll be surprised if the Government enacts these measures as advertised but the thing about Brexit is that a Tory Government could deregulate things like this and then a Labour government come back in two-three years later and put them straight back in again, or even strengthen them further.

    Thats kind of the point.
    Was it in the Tory manifesto? If not, what mandate do they have? Personally I'd rather governments didn't have the opportunity to take away my rights with no democratic mandate.
    Just something about a red tape challenge. Nothing more.

    I don't think it will be tinkered with except at the margins. And I think it's irrelevant anyway.

    Firstly we already had a WTD opt-out anyway (and most professional people sign that waiver upon signing a contract) and social pressures on mental health and competitive market pressures on work/life balance for employees is doing more for reasonable working hours than regulation ever would.

    I honestly wouldn't worry about it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh wow, Brexit turns out to be all about tearing up workers' rights. Who could have predicted that?
    Why should workers have rights anyway? Just do your work and shut up. The robots are coming. You are lucky to have a job at all. Frankly
    I'll be surprised if the Government enacts these measures as advertised but the thing about Brexit is that a Tory Government could deregulate things like this and then a Labour government come back in two-three years later and put them straight back in again, or even strengthen them further.

    Thats kind of the point.
    Was it in the Tory manifesto? If not, what mandate do they have? Personally I'd rather governments didn't have the opportunity to take away my rights with no democratic mandate.
    Manifestoes don't give a mandate anyway - when a government wants to do something in it which people really don't like they don't stop opposing it because it was in there, and they do things like point out that people don't agree with everything in a manifesto so you cannot assume everyone who voted for you supports it and provides a mandate for it.

    Better than nothing, but awfully limited.
    I just don't understand why it is considered an improvement that a government can take away people's rights, having not even sought a democratic mandate to do so.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    Yes... but don't forget that 80% of the doses we're going to be giving out in the next few months will be AZN, which is much mess efficacious.
    That is uncertain. As I understand it. Oxford-AZ's efficacy is "good", it may be "very good". We don't know yet
    Both the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) have c. 95% efficacy. The adenovirus vaccines, whether Chinese, Russian or British appear to be in the low 60s to the mid 80s. That's not awful, but it is substantially less than with Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

    If I were paying up, I know which one I'd rather get.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    To get that figure, the first 2 weeks after the first injection are ignored, and the week after the second injection added in, so based on very small numbers. The Confidence Intervals are high, and we do not know yet how long the immunity lasts. The AZN vaccine is noticeably lower protection after the first dose.

    We should know by the end of Feb how reliable a single dose is, particularly in the elderly, who do mount a more feeble response to vaccines in general.

    If the gamble comes off, plaudits all round, but if it doesn't...
    Informative, thankyou. I believe the gamble is justified. This is a war, and in war you have to balance one evil against another, worse outcome
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    UK cases by specimen date scaled to 100k population

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    UK Local R

    image
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Cases wildly accelerating in Spain. 36.000 today, close to a new pandemic record

    Their sluggishness in rolling out the vaccine is..... bewildering

    You can't give people something that you don't have? And most of europe doesn't have any vaccine.
    Which is an absolutely shocking state of affairs.

    You seem almost sanguine.

    You described it as “a shame” earlier, as if it was a slightly overdone rib of beef of a Sunday lunchtime, or a good prosciutto salad left too long in the sun.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    Yes... but don't forget that 80% of the doses we're going to be giving out in the next few months will be AZN, which is much mess efficacious.
    That is uncertain. As I understand it. Oxford-AZ's efficacy is "good", it may be "very good". We don't know yet
    Both the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) have c. 95% efficacy. The adenovirus vaccines, whether Chinese, Russian or British appear to be in the low 60s to the mid 80s. That's not awful, but it is substantially less than with Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

    If I were paying up, I know which one I'd rather get.
    Yes, Oxford because of the snobbery.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    Yes... but don't forget that 80% of the doses we're going to be giving out in the next few months will be AZN, which is much mess efficacious.
    That is uncertain. As I understand it. Oxford-AZ's efficacy is "good", it may be "very good". We don't know yet
    Both the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) have c. 95% efficacy. The adenovirus vaccines, whether Chinese, Russian or British appear to be in the low 60s to the mid 80s. That's not awful, but it is substantially less than with Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

    If I were paying up, I know which one I'd rather get.
    The 9-12 week gap could tak the AZ vaccine up to 95% efficacy but unfortunately the trial size for that delta was small. We're just going to have to wait for the actual programme for more information on efficacy with a larger gap between doses.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    UK Case summary

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    One would expect, assuming other vaccines are approved and supply continues to ramp up, that the pace of vaccinations will keep rising. One would also expect R to fall as more people are vaccinated - even if the protection is only partial.

    I don't know about you, @Foxy, but I'm feeling increasingly optimistic about the world.

    Basically: cheer up man!
    We ain't seen the bill yet, either financially, or on the NHS.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    Yes... but don't forget that 80% of the doses we're going to be giving out in the next few months will be AZN, which is much mess efficacious.
    That is uncertain. As I understand it. Oxford-AZ's efficacy is "good", it may be "very good". We don't know yet
    Both the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) have c. 95% efficacy. The adenovirus vaccines, whether Chinese, Russian or British appear to be in the low 60s to the mid 80s. That's not awful, but it is substantially less than with Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

    If I were paying up, I know which one I'd rather get.
    If Oxford-AZ turns out to be mid 80s then yay. Low 60s, meh. We don't know yet, surely. Their testing was a bit pff
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    UK hospitals

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    UK Deaths

    image
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  • From yesterday..

    Required vaccination rate (UK) is now 331,197 first doses per day to hit the 13.9 million first dose target by the end of February 15th.

    This is a correction of my earlier post that used England figures.

    After today the required vaccination rate has ticked up to 332,780 first doses per day.
    It's a pandemic, not a T20 match.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    One would expect, assuming other vaccines are approved and supply continues to ramp up, that the pace of vaccinations will keep rising. One would also expect R to fall as more people are vaccinated - even if the protection is only partial.

    I don't know about you, @Foxy, but I'm feeling increasingly optimistic about the world.

    Basically: cheer up man!
    Some pretty steep reductions in new cases in London, Kent and Essex as well:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    Some may remember my header on population changes before Christmas. It is possible that I may have underestimated emigration.

    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1349839092582903812?s=19
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,704

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh wow, Brexit turns out to be all about tearing up workers' rights. Who could have predicted that?
    Makes no difference to the Pensioners and "dole scum" who voted for it.

    My stepson who has never done a days work in the last 20 yrs and has 10 kids with his various partners of the same ilk tweeted "Independence Day" on 1.1.21

    Its the people paying his benefits who will be hardest hit
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    UK R

    From case data

    image
    image

    From hospitalisation data

    image
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    UK vaccinations

    11/01 166,474
    12/01 223,726
    13/01 288,688

    England vaccinations

    11/01 140,441
    12/01 187,645
    13/01 248,177

    Northern Ireland vaccinations

    11/01 7,521
    12/01 9,782
    13/01 12,454

    Scotland vaccinations

    11/01 12,664
    12/01 16,156
    13/01 16,442

    Wales vaccinations

    11/01 5,218
    12/01 10,143
    13/01 11,615

    Hopefully today's snow will not have affected things much.

    England rocking it there. Almost a doubling in two days. WTF happened in Scotland and Wales?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    Age related data

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  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh wow, Brexit turns out to be all about tearing up workers' rights. Who could have predicted that?
    Why should workers have rights anyway? Just do your work and shut up. The robots are coming. You are lucky to have a job at all. Frankly
    I'll be surprised if the Government enacts these measures as advertised but the thing about Brexit is that a Tory Government could deregulate things like this and then a Labour government come back in two-three years later and put them straight back in again, or even strengthen them further.

    Thats kind of the point.
    Was it in the Tory manifesto? If not, what mandate do they have? Personally I'd rather governments didn't have the opportunity to take away my rights with no democratic mandate.
    Just something about a red tape challenge. Nothing more.

    I don't think it will be tinkered with except at the margins. And I think it's irrelevant anyway.

    Firstly we already had a WTD opt-out anyway (and most professional people sign that waiver upon signing a contract) and social pressures on mental health and competitive market pressures on work/life balance for employees is doing more for reasonable working hours than regulation ever would.

    I honestly wouldn't worry about it.
    Nothing to see here... Not sure if you've ever worked at the sharp end of the labour market or only in nice white collar jobs with dress down Friday. My first job was £1.50 an hour, twelve hour shifts, not getting paid for the last hour of your shift. There are people who absolutely need protection from the "nanny state" in the shape of these kind of rules. Where is the mandate to take these protections away? How many times were we told that Brexit definitely wasn't about eroding workers' rights?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    UK Vaccine data

    image
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  • Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Darren the stupidest of all the grifter progeny of Brexit?

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1349690629077532674?s=21

    I feel like Grimes is the equivalent of those obscure, radical accounts that people on the right like to quote to show how crazy the left are, as he seem to be brought up exclusively by people who don't like him.
    I feel obliged to bring Dazza up after one former PB poster described him as the intelligent young face of the right.
    "Dazza"?

    You can do better than that. It only elicits a minor *Ugh*.

    After all , you're the guy who warned us about "PROBS FOR THE DEMERSAL AND PELAGIC BOYS" so I feel a similar level of scrotum-tighteningly cringeworthy "I like Drill even tho I'm 80" fake matey yoof creole is required here.

    Ta, fam
    You’re the bloke that thinks the Zhou Enlai ‘too early to tell’ guff is cutting edge insight. Maybe you need to get down with the kids more grandad, they’d have cleared that one up for you.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722
    The Crown s4... Gillian Anderson’s Maggie is pretty ridiculous isn’t it?
  • isam said:

    I saw this and thought of you @Theuniondivvie


    Assume that's the somewhere to park your bike one?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    MaxPB said:

    279k first jabs, 288k total jabs done yesterday. That's a reasonably good figure, another 70-80k on top and we'll smash through that target and if we do get to 500k per day next week as they are planning the we'll be down to group six or seven by the middle of Feb.

    Yes, the acceleration looks decent now. Snowy weather up north not ideal as you would expect it to affect today’s return. Fingers crossed it’s not had too much of an impact.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    edited January 2021
    Leon said:

    Cases wildly accelerating in Spain. 36.000 today, close to a new pandemic record

    Their sluggishness in rolling out the vaccine is..... bewildering

    The record was 38k set yesterday - so its not a one off but a serious problem.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

    And its even worse in Portugal:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Foxy said:

    Some may remember my header on population changes before Christmas. It is possible that I may have underestimated emigration.

    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1349839092582903812?s=19

    Love the responses to that. A bunch of FBPE-ers saying "surely this is because Brexit" and the Remainer tweeter having to answer "No, this is because Covid",

    Of course it's fucking Covid. In a deadly global plague you want to go home
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    UK vaccinations

    11/01 166,474
    12/01 223,726
    13/01 288,688

    England vaccinations

    11/01 140,441
    12/01 187,645
    13/01 248,177

    Northern Ireland vaccinations

    11/01 7,521
    12/01 9,782
    13/01 12,454

    Scotland vaccinations

    11/01 12,664
    12/01 16,156
    13/01 16,442

    Wales vaccinations

    11/01 5,218
    12/01 10,143
    13/01 11,615

    Hopefully today's snow will not have affected things much.

    So at that daily rate of increase, tomorrow we should be at the daily rate required to hit government targets, no?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    Yes... but don't forget that 80% of the doses we're going to be giving out in the next few months will be AZN, which is much mess efficacious.
    That is uncertain. As I understand it. Oxford-AZ's efficacy is "good", it may be "very good". We don't know yet
    Both the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) have c. 95% efficacy. The adenovirus vaccines, whether Chinese, Russian or British appear to be in the low 60s to the mid 80s. That's not awful, but it is substantially less than with Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

    If I were paying up, I know which one I'd rather get.
    If Oxford-AZ turns out to be mid 80s then yay. Low 60s, meh. We don't know yet, surely. Their testing was a bit pff
    A 60% vaccine that is piss easy to store and distribute is great to have at this stage in the game.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    isam said:

    The Crown s4... Gillian Anderson’s Maggie is pretty ridiculous isn’t it?

    It's a really unrealistic portrayal. She seems almost human in places.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Darren the stupidest of all the grifter progeny of Brexit?

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1349690629077532674?s=21

    I feel like Grimes is the equivalent of those obscure, radical accounts that people on the right like to quote to show how crazy the left are, as he seem to be brought up exclusively by people who don't like him.
    I feel obliged to bring Dazza up after one former PB poster described him as the intelligent young face of the right.
    "Dazza"?

    You can do better than that. It only elicits a minor *Ugh*.

    After all , you're the guy who warned us about "PROBS FOR THE DEMERSAL AND PELAGIC BOYS" so I feel a similar level of scrotum-tighteningly cringeworthy "I like Drill even tho I'm 80" fake matey yoof creole is required here.

    Ta, fam
    You’re the bloke that thinks the Zhou Enlai ‘too early to tell’ guff is cutting edge insight. Maybe you need to get down with the kids more grandad, they’d have cleared that one up for you.
    PROBS FOR THE DEMERSAL AND PELAGIC BOYS

    Why didn't you put a Z on Probz, or indeed Boyz? You clearly hang out in the bars of Eyemouth, so you know how they stan Z bruh
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Is Darren the stupidest of all the grifter progeny of Brexit?

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1349690629077532674?s=21

    I feel like Grimes is the equivalent of those obscure, radical accounts that people on the right like to quote to show how crazy the left are, as he seem to be brought up exclusively by people who don't like him.
    I feel obliged to bring Dazza up after one former PB poster described him as the intelligent young face of the right.
    "Dazza"?

    You can do better than that. It only elicits a minor *Ugh*.

    After all , you're the guy who warned us about "PROBS FOR THE DEMERSAL AND PELAGIC BOYS" so I feel a similar level of scrotum-tighteningly cringeworthy "I like Drill even tho I'm 80" fake matey yoof creole is required here.

    Ta, fam
    You’re the bloke that thinks the Zhou Enlai ‘too early to tell’ guff is cutting edge insight. Maybe you need to get down with the kids more grandad, they’d have cleared that one up for you.
    PROBS FOR THE DEMERSAL AND PELAGIC BOYS

    Why didn't you put a Z on Probz, or indeed Boyz? You clearly hang out in the bars of Eyemouth, so you know how they stan Z bruh
    Ragin'! :)
  • kle4 said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    Knighthoods for everyone involved if that is the case.
    2022 will be a good year to do a mass number of honours anyway, what with it being the 70th anniversary of the accession of our most glorious monarch.
    Wasn't there a story that one of the Labour ministers needed to have it explained why HMQ might not have wanted to celebrate her accession?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    Yes... but don't forget that 80% of the doses we're going to be giving out in the next few months will be AZN, which is much mess efficacious.
    That is uncertain. As I understand it. Oxford-AZ's efficacy is "good", it may be "very good". We don't know yet
    Both the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) have c. 95% efficacy. The adenovirus vaccines, whether Chinese, Russian or British appear to be in the low 60s to the mid 80s. That's not awful, but it is substantially less than with Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

    If I were paying up, I know which one I'd rather get.
    Yes, Oxford because of the snobbery.
    I'd be more than happy with the Oxford vaccine, particularly if the claim that close to 100% of those taking it, even if they do not become immune, will at worst get a mild form of the disease, without needing hospitalization.

    But, being in the States, I guess there is a good chance I won't be up for mine until Novovax and J&J are also online. The J&J one sounds the way to go if given a choice.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,601
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Some may remember my header on population changes before Christmas. It is possible that I may have underestimated emigration.

    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1349839092582903812?s=19

    Love the responses to that. A bunch of FBPE-ers saying "surely this is because Brexit" and the Remainer tweeter having to answer "No, this is because Covid",

    Of course it's fucking Covid. In a deadly global plague you want to go home
    The reason seems quite obvious to me - living and working in London. All the cafes, pubs, bars, restaurants, shops etc that catered to the commuting population used

    - overwhelmingly foreign workers
    - pay by the hour

    So when these places shut, you had large numbers of people with no pay but paying London rents.

    So it is entirely unsurprising to me that that they went home to be unemployed and live in Mum&Dad Hotel.
  • Lets hope that Oxford vaccine still protects against Brazilian Bum or Saffers COVID....that the next potential hiccup for government vaccine strategy.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    From yesterday..

    Required vaccination rate (UK) is now 331,197 first doses per day to hit the 13.9 million first dose target by the end of February 15th.

    This is a correction of my earlier post that used England figures.

    After today the required vaccination rate has ticked up to 332,780 first doses per day.
    It's a pandemic, not a T20 match.
    Actually it is very much like a T20 match, in terms of the mathematical realities.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722
    ...

    isam said:

    I saw this and thought of you @Theuniondivvie


    Assume that's the somewhere to park your bike one?
    Yes, that’s the one
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    One would expect, assuming other vaccines are approved and supply continues to ramp up, that the pace of vaccinations will keep rising. One would also expect R to fall as more people are vaccinated - even if the protection is only partial.

    I don't know about you, @Foxy, but I'm feeling increasingly optimistic about the world.

    Basically: cheer up man!
    We ain't seen the bill yet, either financially, or on the NHS.
    "So, Foxy, the D Day Landings were a success, and while there's a long hard march to Berlin, with many troubles ahead of us, we can now look to the end of the War."

    "Bah, don't be too optimistic. We may have beaten the Germans, but we've still massive debts and the country's industrial capacity and housing stock have been hammered. It's dark days ahead."

    [Not Long Later]

    "You've never had it so good."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    Yes... but don't forget that 80% of the doses we're going to be giving out in the next few months will be AZN, which is much mess efficacious.
    That is uncertain. As I understand it. Oxford-AZ's efficacy is "good", it may be "very good". We don't know yet
    Both the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) have c. 95% efficacy. The adenovirus vaccines, whether Chinese, Russian or British appear to be in the low 60s to the mid 80s. That's not awful, but it is substantially less than with Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.

    If I were paying up, I know which one I'd rather get.
    If Oxford-AZ turns out to be mid 80s then yay. Low 60s, meh. We don't know yet, surely. Their testing was a bit pff
    A 60% vaccine that is piss easy to store and distribute is great to have at this stage in the game.
    https://twitter.com/LuwandaJenkins/status/562707754679549952
  • isamisam Posts: 40,722

    isam said:

    The Crown s4... Gillian Anderson’s Maggie is pretty ridiculous isn’t it?

    It's a really unrealistic portrayal. She seems almost human in places.
    Quite the opposite, she looks like a waxwork! The voice is awful too, should have got Janet Brown in.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    If half a million vaccinations a day are reached then almost the whole country will be done by the end of March.
    As I mentioned earlier, HALF DONE...
    As I understand it, the first dose of, say, Pfizer, gives 80-90% protection, and the 2nd just tops this up to 90%+? Am I wrong?

    That is, surely, the government's rationale for delaying the 2nd dose. But you are the doc
    To get that figure, the first 2 weeks after the first injection are ignored, and the week after the second injection added in, so based on very small numbers. The Confidence Intervals are high, and we do not know yet how long the immunity lasts. The AZN vaccine is noticeably lower protection after the first dose.

    We should know by the end of Feb how reliable a single dose is, particularly in the elderly, who do mount a more feeble response to vaccines in general.

    If the gamble comes off, plaudits all round, but if it doesn't...
    Informative, thankyou. I believe the gamble is justified. This is a war, and in war you have to balance one evil against another, worse outcome
    We know that there is a real problem of poor response to immunisation from single dose vaccines in the elderly, a group that barely featured in the AZN studies. A booster vaccine greatly improves efficacy:

    https://immunityageing.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12979-019-0164-9
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Some may remember my header on population changes before Christmas. It is possible that I may have underestimated emigration.

    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1349839092582903812?s=19

    Love the responses to that. A bunch of FBPE-ers saying "surely this is because Brexit" and the Remainer tweeter having to answer "No, this is because Covid",

    Of course it's fucking Covid. In a deadly global plague you want to go home
    The reason seems quite obvious to me - living and working in London. All the cafes, pubs, bars, restaurants, shops etc that catered to the commuting population used

    - overwhelmingly foreign workers
    - pay by the hour

    So when these places shut, you had large numbers of people with no pay but paying London rents.

    So it is entirely unsurprising to me that that they went home to be unemployed and live in Mum&Dad Hotel.
    The question follows:
    what happens when things get back to normal? Not going to be that easy for these people to come back, will it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Oh wow, Brexit turns out to be all about tearing up workers' rights. Who could have predicted that?
    Why should workers have rights anyway? Just do your work and shut up. The robots are coming. You are lucky to have a job at all. Frankly
    I'll be surprised if the Government enacts these measures as advertised but the thing about Brexit is that a Tory Government could deregulate things like this and then a Labour government come back in two-three years later and put them straight back in again, or even strengthen them further.

    Thats kind of the point.
    Was it in the Tory manifesto? If not, what mandate do they have? Personally I'd rather governments didn't have the opportunity to take away my rights with no democratic mandate.
    Just something about a red tape challenge. Nothing more.

    I don't think it will be tinkered with except at the margins. And I think it's irrelevant anyway.

    Firstly we already had a WTD opt-out anyway (and most professional people sign that waiver upon signing a contract) and social pressures on mental health and competitive market pressures on work/life balance for employees is doing more for reasonable working hours than regulation ever would.

    I honestly wouldn't worry about it.
    Nothing to see here... Not sure if you've ever worked at the sharp end of the labour market or only in nice white collar jobs with dress down Friday. My first job was £1.50 an hour, twelve hour shifts, not getting paid for the last hour of your shift. There are people who absolutely need protection from the "nanny state" in the shape of these kind of rules. Where is the mandate to take these protections away? How many times were we told that Brexit definitely wasn't about eroding workers' rights?
    The clue was in Brexit being supported by Jacob Rees Mogg, who literally dresses like Scrooge-meets-Dracula, with a dash of Flashman, and also looks like an etiolated but ennobled Victorian workhouse CEO, and actually jokes about fish-minded Scotsmen losing their livelihoods, in the House of Commons. And is a multi-millionaire who had a nanny

    There's a bunch of clues, there, for those of a Sherlockian disposition.

    A it happens, the British people in their wisdom chose to ignore or dismiss then, and here we are. Brexiting. The will of the British people is done.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    isam said:

    The Crown s4... Gillian Anderson’s Maggie is pretty ridiculous isn’t it?

    It's a really unrealistic portrayal. She seems almost human in places.
    LOLs.

    To me it was an actresses overplaying a cartoon character version of a person drawn from folk mythology of the real thing, while very self-consciously thinking she was delivering an Oscar-worthy performance.
  • kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Mortimer said:

    The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.

    BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.
    Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan government
    I am not sure you are correct.

    Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.

    I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.
    s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.
    No one is denying that. If Nippy calls a Referendum and wins, Johnson is perfectly entitled to reject it. However it would look bad!
    Boris would not give a shit, it would look far worse for him if he allowed a referendum that risked him being the PM who lost the Union and he only has 6 Scottish MPs anyway.

    He will be the PM who lost the Union. No hiding place.
    He won't if he refuses a legal indyref as long as he is PM or he will pass the ball to Starmer in 2024 who if he needs SNP support to become PM may have to concede with a devomax offer to try and win it
    But that will be one of those spectacular "assists" that are remembered more than the tap in.

    He'll be the man who lost the union. No way round this. It's written.
    I suppose we should wonder if this might be another reason for Boris retiring early before a referendum can be held.
  • isam said:

    The voice is awful too

    Faithful, then.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    isam said:

    The Crown s4... Gillian Anderson’s Maggie is pretty ridiculous isn’t it?

    I managed about three minutes. I love Gillian Anderson normally but that Thatcher voice/character is just unbearable. Awful overacting. Absolutely risible.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172



    My stepson who has never done a days work in the last 20 yrs and has 10 kids with his various partners of the same ilk tweeted "Independence Day" on 1.1.21

    You're Boris' step dad ?
This discussion has been closed.