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Back to British politics for a change and a possible threat to Boris – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 14 in General
Back to British politics for a change and a possible threat to Boris – politicalbetting.com

Influential backbencher Steve Baker has told colleagues “its inevitable the Prime Minister’s leadership will be on the table" unless lockdown path given. Says: "People are telling me they are losing faith in our Conservative Party leadership.” https://t.co/CC4hsEq5DL

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • StockyStocky Posts: 5,067
    Need a timetable out though.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 50,325
    Steve Baker is a twunt.
  • Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    We do, when we've got a sufficient number of the population vaccinated.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 5,129
    Steve Baker's constituency should throw him out. Preferably whilst meeting at the top of a tall building.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 9,420
    This is why Trump needs to be subjugated rather than humoured. Steve Baker and his band of miscreants have been humoured for years. Johnson should smack them down, once and for all. It would do him ,his Party and his country the power of good.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 64,277
    I'm on Steve Baker at 100-1. Not expecting to collect if he launches a challenge.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 25,866
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    felix said:

    MaxPB said:

    Having another look at European vaccine stats, I think Denmark have hit the supply wall and Italy are about to hit it. One of the most striking things is that the rate in most countries is constant, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to ramp up quickly as there very obviously is in the UK. I don't know what kind of pressure the German or other European governments are being put under to speed up the process but it is considerable over here with almost every other question for ministers, scientists and the PM being a reformulated version of "why is this happening so slowly?".

    As someone suggested yesterday or the day before, not being able to blame the EU in this matter has made Westminster politicians accountable to the people. Were we in the EU scheme it would be a simple case of "not our fault guv" which I think is happening all across Europe right now.

    Yes - there is just resignation here in Spain - no urgency and little chance of anyone under 70 seeing a jabe befores May/June at best. Meanwhile the 3rd wave is gathering pace. frankly it's a co mplete clusterfucK!
    May/June? That's just unbelievable.
    It is absolutely pathetic. I mean, if that is anywhere near true it's an international disgrace on a grand scale.
    There is only so much manufacturing capacity to go around - so some countries were always going to lose out.
    Given the cost to the world economy of not vaccinating everyone rapidly, this ought already to have been done. The cost benefit analysis makes it a no brainier for wealthier nations to have funded.
    With someone else other than Trump as president, perhaps it would have been.
    I don't think you can blame this on Trump, to my mind it's the EU scheme that's at fault here. Their scheme precluded subsidising manufacturing capacity as it would have opened up a huge can of worms over to who and where the subsidies are directed. If Germany had been in charge of German procurement I'm certain they would have bought 200m doses of the Pfizer vaccine and made domestic manufacturing part of the contract as we did with AZ. They invested over €100m in BioNTech early in 2020, lots of people expected that to result in an investment in manufacturing for 2021 delivery, unfortunately the EU scheme really buggered everything up.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 28,068

    Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    We do, when we've got a sufficient number of the population vaccinated.
    Plus some hard data on how effective the vaccine is at stopping transmission, which is still a big unknown.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950
    Pulpstar said:
    Usually people wait for the bad election results before quitting. All the union party leaders might as well do it (maybe not SLD).
    Reading your obituary whilst still alive is the best way to experience it.
  • I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 8,536
    As i said in the prior thread. The public want an end to this.Not to the lockdown, to the pandemic. The way to do that is through the vaccine, not putting more people in the firing line.
  • Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    We do, when we've got a sufficient number of the population vaccinated.
    Plus some hard data on how effective the vaccine is at stopping transmission, which is still a big unknown.
    Hopefully the Israelis will be able to give us a good pointer pretty soon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950
    Demanding Boris implement what they want regardless of what the evidence suggests right now does not strike me as a sound position. As Mike says, it is not as though Boris is super eager to implement or remain in lockdowns.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 9,420

    I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Are you suggesting we all need to rally behind Johnson because what comes next could be so much worse?
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 630



    Going well for Macron... how many vaccines are they on now?
    Pretty bad, isn't it? How long at this rate do we think it'll be before they overtake the UK on the number of daily infections or daily deaths, or total infections, or total deaths. Must be pretty soon now.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,679

    The fact that Steve Baker is a raving bonkers troublemaker isn't really news...

    He is an efficient organiser of people; not only were his manoeuvres in Parliament (and the PCP) critical to setting up the referendum (and indeed the conditions for Leave to win), the group under his direction managed to secure a path away from the May Brexit stitch up that would have been little more than vassal state position.

    His views are much more mainstream in the Tory party than the media; and in many of the safer, Torier parties of the country, an end to lockdown is desired much more than endless furlough.
  • I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    It is possible but in this covid crisis who knows where we will be in the next few weeks, let alone months or even years
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950



    Going well for Macron... how many vaccines are they on now?
    Pretty bad, isn't it? How long at this rate do we think it'll be before they overtake the UK on the number of daily infections or daily deaths, or total infections, or total deaths. Must be pretty soon now.
    It'll be some while on the deaths, if at all, given how many more we've had and being at the peak of them right now.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 25,866



    Going well for Macron... how many vaccines are they on now?
    Pretty bad, isn't it? How long at this rate do we think it'll be before they overtake the UK on the number of daily infections or daily deaths, or total infections, or total deaths. Must be pretty soon now.
    A month or so I'd guess, the UK death rate will start to fall a lot in the next 2-3 weeks as the four priority groups all get their first jab.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950

    The fact that Steve Baker is a raving bonkers troublemaker isn't really news...

    I seem to recall he had a brief period in the summer where he had some surprisingly nuanced positions, for instance on BLM, where I think he took a more measure stance than might have been expected from a self proclaimed hard man.
  • I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Are you suggesting we all need to rally behind Johnson because what comes next could be so much worse?
    No, before Richard Leonard resigned, I had written Sunday's thread which was a very simple piece.

    A chart of the Scottish Independence polling with a line pointing out when Boris Johnson became Minister for the Union.

    More like Minister for Scottish Independence.
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 630
    kle4 said:



    Going well for Macron... how many vaccines are they on now?
    Pretty bad, isn't it? How long at this rate do we think it'll be before they overtake the UK on the number of daily infections or daily deaths, or total infections, or total deaths. Must be pretty soon now.
    It'll be some while on the deaths, if at all, given how many more we've had and being at the peak of them right now.
    Oh yes, now I see. We're "ahead" and still accelerating away from them.
    Is Impfstoffselbstzufriedenheit a word in German?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 28,068

    Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    We do, when we've got a sufficient number of the population vaccinated.
    Plus some hard data on how effective the vaccine is at stopping transmission, which is still a big unknown.
    Hopefully the Israelis will be able to give us a good pointer pretty soon.
    Yep.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 5,129

    I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Do you think either issue is big enough to cause much trouble? I don't but perhaps I'm missing something.

  • pingping Posts: 236
    Golden rule of Tory politics;

    The bastards on the right always win.
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 630
    MaxPB said:



    Going well for Macron... how many vaccines are they on now?
    Pretty bad, isn't it? How long at this rate do we think it'll be before they overtake the UK on the number of daily infections or daily deaths, or total infections, or total deaths. Must be pretty soon now.
    A month or so I'd guess, the UK death rate will start to fall a lot in the next 2-3 weeks as the four priority groups all get their first jab.
    Prediction: in a month, France will not have "caught up" with the UK in terms of daily or total Covid-19 deaths.
  • Gordon Brown next leader of SLAB, you read it here first, and probably only here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 2,481
    kle4 said:



    Going well for Macron... how many vaccines are they on now?
    Pretty bad, isn't it? How long at this rate do we think it'll be before they overtake the UK on the number of daily infections or daily deaths, or total infections, or total deaths. Must be pretty soon now.
    It'll be some while on the deaths, if at all, given how many more we've had and being at the peak of them right now.
    Yes. France has nothing like our explosive rise. They're on a plateau for cases and deaths, neither rising nor falling dramatically.

    That could all change, natch. Esp if they get one of the exciting new upgraded viruses
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 82,645

    I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Are you suggesting we all need to rally behind Johnson because what comes next could be so much worse?
    No, before Richard Leonard resigned, I had written Sunday's thread which was a very simple piece.

    A chart of the Scottish Independence polling with a line pointing out when Boris Johnson became Minister for the Union.

    More like Minister for Scottish Independence.
    Boris though won more Scottish Tory MPs in 2019 than Cameron did in 2010 or 2015
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 82,645
    All the Cabinet are behind Boris on lockdown so this will not go anywhere, the main opposition comes from outside the Tories via Reform UK
  • HYUFD said:

    I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Are you suggesting we all need to rally behind Johnson because what comes next could be so much worse?
    No, before Richard Leonard resigned, I had written Sunday's thread which was a very simple piece.

    A chart of the Scottish Independence polling with a line pointing out when Boris Johnson became Minister for the Union.

    More like Minister for Scottish Independence.
    Boris though won more Scottish Tory MPs in 2019 than Cameron did in 2010 or 2015
    Odd you don't mention the net loss of Scottish seats under Johnson.
  • Gordon Brown next leader of SLAB, you read it here first, and probably only here.

    Ian Murray, anyone? If having a Westminster MP as Scottish Leader is good enough for the Tories...
  • Have we covered this? Because I am astonished.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 7,229
    edited January 14
    Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    Yes, I'm pretty much the opposite of a Baker Fan Boy, but he's a useful outrider in keeping government under pressure on exit strategy. We have seen on here that many seek to reduce covid risk to near zero, rather than balance it with other risks.

    Baker asking for a timetable is probably a bit previous given we haven't yet got the data we need, but I'd rather have that pressure on than not.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Usually people wait for the bad election results before quitting. All the union party leaders might as well do it (maybe not SLD).
    Reading your obituary whilst still alive is the best way to experience it.
    I'll tell you something from personal experience, with a colleague and with family members - writing that obituary when the subject is still alive and can be asked is the best way to do it. Not Tactful, though ...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 55,965
    Has PHE excel spreadsheet crashed from too many deaths? As still no sign of todays data.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,915
    edited January 14
    kle4 said:

    The fact that Steve Baker is a raving bonkers troublemaker isn't really news...

    I seem to recall he had a brief period in the summer where he had some surprisingly nuanced positions, for instance on BLM, where I think he took a more measure stance than might have been expected from a self proclaimed hard man.
    Unlike most the ERG he is usually both polite and straight forward. Says what he means and means what he says and does, and generally, not always, without resorting to divisive language and posturing.

    The majority of the time I won't agree with him but see more value in him as a politician than most of his colleagues who will spout whatever dear leader and the press want them to, even when they know its nonsense.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 82,645
    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

  • LeonLeon Posts: 2,481
    edited January 14

    MaxPB said:



    Going well for Macron... how many vaccines are they on now?
    Pretty bad, isn't it? How long at this rate do we think it'll be before they overtake the UK on the number of daily infections or daily deaths, or total infections, or total deaths. Must be pretty soon now.
    A month or so I'd guess, the UK death rate will start to fall a lot in the next 2-3 weeks as the four priority groups all get their first jab.
    Prediction: in a month, France will not have "caught up" with the UK in terms of daily or total Covid-19 deaths.
    Yes, I thought you were trolling with the first remark

    This prediction is probably right, but not certain. If they get Supercovid it could run riot. They won't overtake us in total deaths by then for sure, but they could come close to our daily deaths. Germany has been close in recent days.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 9,337
    Spain has administered 2.4 times as many jabs as France, despite having 20 million fewer people.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 25,866
    Government has fucked up the 72h test entry requirement. Allowing basically nonsense tests as part of it. It should be two negative PCR tests 24h before departure and two negative PCR tests on arrival, instead we're going to allow useless lateral flow ones.
  • HYUFD said:

    I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Are you suggesting we all need to rally behind Johnson because what comes next could be so much worse?
    No, before Richard Leonard resigned, I had written Sunday's thread which was a very simple piece.

    A chart of the Scottish Independence polling with a line pointing out when Boris Johnson became Minister for the Union.

    More like Minister for Scottish Independence.
    Boris though won more Scottish Tory MPs in 2019 than Cameron did in 2010 or 2015
    That was then, this is now
  • LeonLeon Posts: 2,481

    Has PHE excel spreadsheet crashed from too many deaths? As still no sign of todays data.

    Hospital deaths in England are about 880. Sure I just read that somewhere. Can't recall where
  • HYUFD said:

    All the Cabinet are behind Boris on lockdown so this will not go anywhere, the main opposition comes from outside the Tories via Reform UK

    Who
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 723

    I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Are you suggesting we all need to rally behind Johnson because what comes next could be so much worse?
    No, before Richard Leonard resigned, I had written Sunday's thread which was a very simple piece.

    A chart of the Scottish Independence polling with a line pointing out when Boris Johnson became Minister for the Union.

    More like Minister for Scottish Independence.
    This is why there won't be an IndyRef2 while Boris is PM and, as I don't expect him to stand down anytime soon, that probably safely takes us to 2024 by which time Sturgeon is likely gone too, a victim either of Salmond, or of the frustrations of a nationalist movement denied its climax.

  • IshmaelZ said:

    No threat. These people put me on Boris's side, which takes some doing.

    Indeed, these people who think Julia Hartley Brewer, Karol Sikora, Toby Young, and Gupta have called the pandemic right.
    The fundamental error of all these people (on top of their basic stupidity and inability to understand data) is that they seem to actually believe that their opponents relish lockdown; that there are some who revel in imposing restrictions on others.

    There may be a handful of those. But the vast majority of us who favour restrictions absolutely hate them. Any sort of lockdown is abject misery, and to be avoided if at all possible. But needs must, and when thousands are dying and becoming seriously ill we need to do it. They just don't get it.
    We see it on here, people think if you support lockdowns you must love them.

    I absolutely despise them but I see the science and well the greater good.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019

    I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Are you suggesting we all need to rally behind Johnson because what comes next could be so much worse?
    No, before Richard Leonard resigned, I had written Sunday's thread which was a very simple piece.

    A chart of the Scottish Independence polling with a line pointing out when Boris Johnson became Minister for the Union.

    More like Minister for Scottish Independence.
    I'll look forward to reading it. Wonder if Mr Gove appears as a helpful elf? And SKS? No, no - don't spoil the surprise please ...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950

    kle4 said:

    The fact that Steve Baker is a raving bonkers troublemaker isn't really news...

    I seem to recall he had a brief period in the summer where he had some surprisingly nuanced positions, for instance on BLM, where I think he took a more measure stance than might have been expected from a self proclaimed hard man.
    Unlike most the ERG he is usually both polite and straight forward. Says what he means and means what he says and does, and generally, not always, without resorting to divisive language and posturing.

    The majority of the time I won't agree with him but see more value in him as a politician than most of his colleagues who will spout whatever dear leader and the press want them to, even when they know its nonsense.
    I do actually respect, in one sense, the core members of the awkward squad, for not suddenly becoming cooperative little ducklings just because Boris gave them Brexit. Jacob Rees-Mogg sold out, but Baker and the others will be difficult no matter who is in charge!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 25,866

    Has PHE excel spreadsheet crashed from too many deaths? As still no sign of todays data.

    Probably because of the weekly vaccine update.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,915
    HYUFD said:

    Adonis switches from his Blair swoonfest to back Gordon Brown to succeed Leonard as Scottish Labour leader

    I guess that is pretty obviously true, but why would he want the job?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 12,134
    BoZo being defenestrated by the Bastards is the least he deserves
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,679

    Stocky said:

    Need a timetable out though.

    Yes, I'm pretty much the opposite of a Baker Fan Boy, but he's a useful outrider in keeping government under pressure on exit strategy. We have seen on here that many seek to reduce covid risk to near zero, rather than balance it with other risks.

    Baker asking for a timetable is probably a bit previous given we haven't yet got the data we need, but I'd rather have that pressure on than not.
    This is exactly the position of the rebels on the right. In the absence of any opposition from Labour to endless lockdowns, the fiscal hawks want to ensure enough pressure is kept on the Govt.

    It is from the right that the pressure for 24/7 vaccinations have come. It was from the right that the pressure for parliamentary scrutiny of new regs has come.

    The right are driving better decision making. Starmer might learn something from that....if he wasn't dominated by the union position.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 55,965
    Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 630

    HYUFD said:

    All the Cabinet are behind Boris on lockdown so this will not go anywhere, the main opposition comes from outside the Tories via Reform UK

    Who
    Reform UK. New Brexit Party. New New Ukip.
    You know, the ones who decide what Tory policy is going to be in 2 years' time.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,679

    Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    Moneyfootball?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 11,954
    MaxPB said:

    Has PHE excel spreadsheet crashed from too many deaths? As still no sign of todays data.

    Probably because of the weekly vaccine update.
    More probably, integrating the various data sources... it was noticeable when, over Christmas, some of the data sources weren't there, that the updates were coming out at 4pm. Or even before.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 55,965
    edited January 14
    Mortimer said:

    Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    Moneyfootball?
    The nerds are taking over....less of the what you wanna do is smash it long to the big un...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Usually people wait for the bad election results before quitting. All the union party leaders might as well do it (maybe not SLD).
    Reading your obituary whilst still alive is the best way to experience it.
    I'll tell you something from personal experience, with a colleague and with family members - writing that obituary when the subject is still alive and can be asked is the best way to do it. Not Tactful, though ...
    I knew a chap, super organised and a locally known figure, who not only put together all the detail for his funeral 10 years prior without telling anyone, but when he knew things were approaching their end provided a short biographical summary of his career involvement in things, seemingly as he wanted to be helpful as it can be difficult to find people who know all the details of when someone worked at x, represented y and so on.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 1,056
    kle4 said:

    The fact that Steve Baker is a raving bonkers troublemaker isn't really news...

    I seem to recall he had a brief period in the summer where he had some surprisingly nuanced positions, for instance on BLM, where I think he took a more measure stance than might have been expected from a self proclaimed hard man.
    Yes, he wrote an article quite supportive of BLM; it was quite a good piece. The cynic in me suspected that the line he took may be useful in his multicultural constituency (High Wycombe), but I concluded I was being unfair.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 3,079

    IshmaelZ said:

    No threat. These people put me on Boris's side, which takes some doing.

    Indeed, these people who think Julia Hartley Brewer, Karol Sikora, Toby Young, and Gupta have called the pandemic right.
    The fundamental error of all these people (on top of their basic stupidity and inability to understand data) is that they seem to actually believe that their opponents relish lockdown; that there are some who revel in imposing restrictions on others.

    There may be a handful of those. But the vast majority of us who favour restrictions absolutely hate them. Any sort of lockdown is abject misery, and to be avoided if at all possible. But needs must, and when thousands are dying and becoming seriously ill we need to do it. They just don't get it.
    ^^ This.
    My severely autistic son HATES the lockdown period.
    I'm not exactly overly fond of it myself.
    But it's necessary.

    How anyone can look at anything from Young, Yeadon, Sikora, Hartley-Brewer, Pearsson, and Gupta and say "Well, maybe NOW they're right..." beggars belief.
    Young's been going around deleting virtually every tweet he wrote on it last year. Someone even put up a snazzy infographic of their greatest hits here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq5KU1WXMAAGMgh?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,679

    Mortimer said:

    Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    Moneyfootball?
    The nerds are taking over....less of the want you wanna do is smash it long to the big un...
    Has anyone told the likes of Big Sam and Steve Bruce?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,915
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    The fact that Steve Baker is a raving bonkers troublemaker isn't really news...

    I seem to recall he had a brief period in the summer where he had some surprisingly nuanced positions, for instance on BLM, where I think he took a more measure stance than might have been expected from a self proclaimed hard man.
    Unlike most the ERG he is usually both polite and straight forward. Says what he means and means what he says and does, and generally, not always, without resorting to divisive language and posturing.

    The majority of the time I won't agree with him but see more value in him as a politician than most of his colleagues who will spout whatever dear leader and the press want them to, even when they know its nonsense.
    I do actually respect, in one sense, the core members of the awkward squad, for not suddenly becoming cooperative little ducklings just because Boris gave them Brexit. Jacob Rees-Mogg sold out, but Baker and the others will be difficult no matter who is in charge!
    I think he is close to unique amongst the "awkward squad" in choosing his language carefully and without aiming to cause division in exchange for being popular with the hardcore. Someone like Francois in the awkward squad deserves zero respect in comparison.
  • HYUFD said:

    I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Are you suggesting we all need to rally behind Johnson because what comes next could be so much worse?
    No, before Richard Leonard resigned, I had written Sunday's thread which was a very simple piece.

    A chart of the Scottish Independence polling with a line pointing out when Boris Johnson became Minister for the Union.

    More like Minister for Scottish Independence.
    Boris though won more Scottish Tory MPs in 2019 than Cameron did in 2010 or 2015
    Wasn't there an election in 2017 too?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 39,357
    I would the word "soon" is doing a lot of work in Steve Baker's thoughts.

    To me this reads more as - unlock when the vulnerable have been done by early to mid Spring, do not for a moment consider thinking about what Whitty and Valance are going to tell you about keeping lockdown until summer or even autumn i.e. waiting until everyone over 40 has been done.

    The latter strategy will not get the votes without embarrassing and possibly fatal (for boris) reliance on Starmer.

  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 723
    Scott_xP said:
    Ian Murray appears to be very good from what I've seen of him, but not sure that SLAB would wish to follow the Tories in picking an MP. Their best option would be Jackie Baillie who has been formidable at the Salmond Inquiry and would be 100 times more effective than Leonard in jousts with Nicola. I think she could well appeal to traditional Central Belt Labour voters - right sort of profile.
  • eekeek Posts: 11,035
    Mortimer said:

    Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    Moneyfootball?
    Any data scientist while expensive is going to be cheaper than a Man City signing and probably worth as much in what they will save the club.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,789

    HYUFD said:

    I do wonder once the problems of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal especially regarding fishing and Northern Ireland become wider known then that might see the ouster of Boris Johnson from the Brexit right and Unionist wing.

    Boris Johnson's vaccine strategy might be the reason we might all end focussing on domestic matters earlier than most.

    Are you suggesting we all need to rally behind Johnson because what comes next could be so much worse?
    No, before Richard Leonard resigned, I had written Sunday's thread which was a very simple piece.

    A chart of the Scottish Independence polling with a line pointing out when Boris Johnson became Minister for the Union.

    More like Minister for Scottish Independence.
    Boris though won more Scottish Tory MPs in 2019 than Cameron did in 2010 or 2015
    Wasn't there an election in 2017 too?
    2017 and all that entails has been airbrushed from history.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 13,964
    I don't think Johnson has much to worry about. Starmer has done everything but wear an 'I love Boris' badge.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,679

    I would the word "soon" is doing a lot of work in Steve Baker's thoughts.

    To me this reads more as - unlock when the vulnerable have been done by early to mid Spring, do not for a moment consider thinking about what Whitty and Valance are going to tell you about keeping lockdown until summer or even autumn i.e. waiting until everyone over 40 has been done.

    The latter strategy will not get the votes without embarrassing and possibly fatal (for boris) reliance on Starmer.

    Absolutely right.

    I'm pretty sure the votes (from the Tory benches at least) disappear at the end of March. Easter is pushing it.

    Starmer of course will keep bravely abstaining or voting with the Govt, which is why only threats of a leadership challenge work. Baker of course knows this. A smart cookie. His positions are only made stronger by people who underestimate him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 55,965
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    Moneyfootball?
    The nerds are taking over....less of the want you wanna do is smash it long to the big un...
    Has anyone told the likes of Big Sam and Steve Bruce?
    Big Sam is one of the reasons we have had this revolution. He was one of the first managers to buy into it. One of the major companies would have gone bust without him in the early days.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 38,891
    edited January 14

    HYUFD said:

    All the Cabinet are behind Boris on lockdown so this will not go anywhere, the main opposition comes from outside the Tories via Reform UK

    Who
    Reform UK. New Brexit Party. New New Ukip.
    You know, the ones who decide what Tory policy is going to be in 2 years' time.
    All 12 of them- In your dreams
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950
    IshmaelZ said:

    No threat. These people put me on Boris's side, which takes some doing.

    I don't remember the example, but there was one time when there was an unfair attack on Trump (shockingly, it happens) that meant I had to technically be on his side. Wasn't pleasant.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,679

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    Moneyfootball?
    The nerds are taking over....less of the want you wanna do is smash it long to the big un...
    Has anyone told the likes of Big Sam and Steve Bruce?
    Big Sam is one of the reasons we have had this revolution. He was one of the first managers to buy into it. One of the major companies would have gone bust without him in the early days.
    Sadly this doesn't seem to have translated into success at the Hawthorns.....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 13,964

    Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    They're going to convert KDB into a robot?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 2,535
    Complete non story except for followers of the history of Baker's attention seeking behaviour.

    Everyone apart from Baker and a handful of nutters (both left and right) know that the one thing you can't do with this crisis is plot a timetable. Understandable a year ago but nor now. It's a non story.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 62,950
    Roger said:

    I don't think Johnson has much to worry about. Starmer has done everything but wear an 'I love Boris' badge.

    They are available for purchase online, perhaps his delivery is slow at present.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 8,915
    Mortimer said:

    I would the word "soon" is doing a lot of work in Steve Baker's thoughts.

    To me this reads more as - unlock when the vulnerable have been done by early to mid Spring, do not for a moment consider thinking about what Whitty and Valance are going to tell you about keeping lockdown until summer or even autumn i.e. waiting until everyone over 40 has been done.

    The latter strategy will not get the votes without embarrassing and possibly fatal (for boris) reliance on Starmer.

    Absolutely right.

    I'm pretty sure the votes (from the Tory benches at least) disappear at the end of March. Easter is pushing it.

    Starmer of course will keep bravely abstaining or voting with the Govt, which is why only threats of a leadership challenge work. Baker of course knows this. A smart cookie. His positions are only made stronger by people who underestimate him.
    Lockdown should be managed with the central aim of avoiding the NHS being overloaded. Whether that is March, May, July or gradual easing all year, no-one knows yet. Those with a strong view on a date now, are wrong already.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 38,789

    Gordon Brown next leader of SLAB, you read it here first, and probably only here.

    Ian Murray, anyone? If having a Westminster MP as Scottish Leader is good enough for the Tories...
    They'd be better off selecting Andy Murray..... He's on the look-out for a new career.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 9,337
    edited January 14
    "Dutch government faces collapse over child benefits scandal
    Coalition at risk amid fallout from tax authorities wrongly ‘hunting down’ thousands of families"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/14/dutch-government-faces-collapse-over-child-benefits-scandal

    "Italy facing political crisis after ex-PM withdraws party from coalition
    Loss of Matteo Renzi’s Italia Viva party comes as country struggles with Covid and economic crises"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/13/italy-facing-fresh-elections-after-ex-pm-withdraws-party-from-coalition
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 8,536

    I would the word "soon" is doing a lot of work in Steve Baker's thoughts.

    To me this reads more as - unlock when the vulnerable have been done by early to mid Spring, do not for a moment consider thinking about what Whitty and Valance are going to tell you about keeping lockdown until summer or even autumn i.e. waiting until everyone over 40 has been done.

    The latter strategy will not get the votes without embarrassing and possibly fatal (for boris) reliance on Starmer.

    The reverse of the lockdown isn't a binary 'off or on' though. I expect we will get children back in school before Easter. I expect non-essential shops will open. I expect Pubs and restaurants will 'begin' to open with social distancing before the summer.

    I very much doubt we will have a 'normal' this year.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 25,866

    Mortimer said:

    I would the word "soon" is doing a lot of work in Steve Baker's thoughts.

    To me this reads more as - unlock when the vulnerable have been done by early to mid Spring, do not for a moment consider thinking about what Whitty and Valance are going to tell you about keeping lockdown until summer or even autumn i.e. waiting until everyone over 40 has been done.

    The latter strategy will not get the votes without embarrassing and possibly fatal (for boris) reliance on Starmer.

    Absolutely right.

    I'm pretty sure the votes (from the Tory benches at least) disappear at the end of March. Easter is pushing it.

    Starmer of course will keep bravely abstaining or voting with the Govt, which is why only threats of a leadership challenge work. Baker of course knows this. A smart cookie. His positions are only made stronger by people who underestimate him.
    Lockdown should be managed with the central aim of avoiding the NHS being overloaded. Whether that is March, May, July or gradual easing all year, no-one knows yet. Those with a strong view on a date now, are wrong already.
    Exactly, it's impossible to form a view on this until we know how well the vaccine will protect people against being hospitalised and how many people will be immunised by a given date. All we can do is keep jabbing and keep our fingers crossed right now.
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 630

    HYUFD said:

    All the Cabinet are behind Boris on lockdown so this will not go anywhere, the main opposition comes from outside the Tories via Reform UK

    Who
    Reform UK. New Brexit Party. New New Ukip.
    You know, the ones who decide what Tory policy is going to be in 2 years' time.
    All 12 of them- In your dreams
    I dream of the day the Conservative Party stops being led around on a leash by Nigel Farage.
    However, it does sort of need the centrist Conservatives to stop being jellyfish and take the party back.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 12,679

    Mortimer said:

    I would the word "soon" is doing a lot of work in Steve Baker's thoughts.

    To me this reads more as - unlock when the vulnerable have been done by early to mid Spring, do not for a moment consider thinking about what Whitty and Valance are going to tell you about keeping lockdown until summer or even autumn i.e. waiting until everyone over 40 has been done.

    The latter strategy will not get the votes without embarrassing and possibly fatal (for boris) reliance on Starmer.

    Absolutely right.

    I'm pretty sure the votes (from the Tory benches at least) disappear at the end of March. Easter is pushing it.

    Starmer of course will keep bravely abstaining or voting with the Govt, which is why only threats of a leadership challenge work. Baker of course knows this. A smart cookie. His positions are only made stronger by people who underestimate him.
    Lockdown should be managed with the central aim of avoiding the NHS being overloaded. Whether that is March, May, July or gradual easing all year, no-one knows yet. Those with a strong view on a date now, are wrong already.
    Indeed. But that isn't how life, business and politics work.

    There needs to be an aim. To give those businesses, and employees, and families planning a wedding, some hope. Without hope we're headed for 30%....

    Compromise is probably to say 'when we get to fewer than x hospitalisations for Covid'.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 9,420

    kle4 said:



    Going well for Macron... how many vaccines are they on now?
    Pretty bad, isn't it? How long at this rate do we think it'll be before they overtake the UK on the number of daily infections or daily deaths, or total infections, or total deaths. Must be pretty soon now.
    It'll be some while on the deaths, if at all, given how many more we've had and being at the peak of them right now.
    Oh yes, now I see. We're "ahead" and still accelerating away from them.
    Is Impfstoffselbstzufriedenheit a word in German?
    Keep up! The only international comparator to concern yourself is vaccine provision.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 18,697
    The intervention from Stevo has not appreciably moved the Johnson exit date prices.

    As far as the market is concerned, it's as if he has not spoken.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 10,019

    HYUFD said:

    All the Cabinet are behind Boris on lockdown so this will not go anywhere, the main opposition comes from outside the Tories via Reform UK

    Who
    Reform UK. New Brexit Party. New New Ukip.
    You know, the ones who decide what Tory policy is going to be in 2 years' time.
    All 12 of them- In your dreams
    I dream of the day the Conservative Party stops being led around on a leash by Nigel Farage.
    However, it does sort of need the centrist Conservatives to stop being jellyfish and take the party back.
    That metaphor rather unfortunate - recalls the discussion the oither day of the wife arrested for leading hubby around on a leash (or, in Glasgow, the other way round).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 46,538
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Usually people wait for the bad election results before quitting. All the union party leaders might as well do it (maybe not SLD).
    Reading your obituary whilst still alive is the best way to experience it.
    I'll tell you something from personal experience, with a colleague and with family members - writing that obituary when the subject is still alive and can be asked is the best way to do it. Not Tactful, though ...
    I knew a chap, super organised and a locally known figure, who not only put together all the detail for his funeral 10 years prior without telling anyone, but when he knew things were approaching their end provided a short biographical summary of his career involvement in things, seemingly as he wanted to be helpful as it can be difficult to find people who know all the details of when someone worked at x, represented y and so on.
    Elizabeth Taylor specified that her funeral should start at 2pm and her coffin should arrive at 2.20pm, proving correct all those who'd said she'd be late for her own funeral.....
  • Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    You should see Liverpool's data analytic team.

    Ian Graham PhD in Theoretical Physics from Cambridge, Tim Waskett, an astrophysicist, and Will Spearman has like ten degrees and worked for NASA.

    That's just the head of the data team, they've got dozens of staff as well.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 13,964

    Report from the wife

    The vaccination centre was very well organised, everything ran very smoothly. They were giving the Pfizer jab which is significantly slower than giving the AZ one. Despite that she did 82 people in just under 4 hours. There were 6 nurses and they got through around 500 people in one afternoon.

    Does 'the wife' not mind being called 'the wife'?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 16,202
    eek said:

    Mortimer said:

    Totally off topic....if you want to see how serious data analytics is getting in football now. These are the sort of people top teams are recruiting.

    Moneyfootball?
    Any data scientist while expensive is going to be cheaper than a Man City signing and probably worth as much in what they will save the club.
    Only if they're any good. Apparently Arsenal bought Mesut Ozil off the back of data analytics...
This discussion has been closed.