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Both Trump and Biden stage Georgia rallies on the eve of today’s Georgia runoffs – politicalbetting.

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Have to say the India export ban, while predicable, does flummox a lot of countries relying on the SII to supply them with the AZ vaccine in the near term. It probay sets global vaccination programmes back by three months. Thankfully the government saw it coming and we've made the right decisions on domestic manufacturing for our domestic vaccine requirements. It's going to be a tough first quarter for the rest of the world.

    Can you tell me which sites are manufacturing the vaccine in the UK?
    Here is a description of the process....

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9111699/How-Oxford-vaccine-made.html
    Thank you. I know a bit about this process as I used to work in Biopharm before my career change.
    From that it's only really being manufactured at two sites in the UK with a further site in the Netherlands, with the filling being done elsewhere which is fairly common practice (this is the part I was previously involved with).

    Not like that's a bad thing at all. I wonder if the bottleneck is in the actual manufacture of the fluid, in the filling, or in the batch release.
    The Times suggested it was an issue with vialing it at a German company and the doses have been shipped to Wrexham which isn't having the same issues. Apparently that's part of why there's only half a million doses currently approved for use, the Wrexham decanted doses are currently all undergoing approval but it shouldn't be long until they have a decent amount of ongoing supply.
    Sounds very positive. Let's hope there's no more problems...
    Yes it does, AZ told The Times that they will have a domestic supply chain of 2m per week by the middle of this month, plus what we get from Pfizer it adds up to a huge number. I think in two weeks the bottleneck becomes distribution and end of line jabbing rather than supply which is a good problem to have and one I hope the NHS is equal to.
    I'm hoping like the 100k per week that the 2m per week is the beginning and not limit of the aspiration.

    Once we've hit 2 million per week we should be looking to move on to 3 million then 4 million. After which point we'll probably be hitting herd immunity before long so doubt it will need to move on past that.
    We need 2 million a week to hit Johnson's target - but if we then stay at 2 million a week much of that capacity will be needed to administer the second doses. The rollout of the vaccine would stall.

    So I hope the government have plans to take injection capacity up to 1 million a day.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a result

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
    Not my take at all. Starmer got his MPs to vote for the deal. It was a sell out by Starmer and if I'd been taking part in the poll I wouldn't have said Labour. Johnson has to own it hook line and sinker!
    Sorry but that analysis doesn't stand up. If that were the case and you were typical of the vote move in this poll then you should have seen Labour drop but Tories not go up up (assuming I believe correctly that you would not vote Tory even though you are not supporting Labour on this)

    What you have actually seen is the Labour vote stay the same, the Lib Dem vote drop and the Tory vote increase. I can't reconcile this with an anti-Brexit protest vote against Starmer.

    What is amazing me at the moment is that the Tory vote is holding up (or increasing) in spite of the dogs dinner Johnson is making of Covid.
    1. The wider population is rather more forgiving of the Govt's actions on Covid than here, especially now a vaccine has been wisely been planned for and is being administered to those they know at greatest risk.

    2. The LibDems were a safe refuge for those normally Tories, Remainers worried about No Deal. No Deal having been used merely as a negotiating ploy, it has now vanished as a concern.

    3. Skyr is bland and not to the taste of many. Better than Corbyn, but...
    1 is probably very, very relevant. How many people now have a loved one who has been vaccinated? Must be a rapidly increasing number. I don't care about the virus for myself but I am delighted half my grandparents have been vaccinated and the other half are scheduled to be soon. A number of others must be in the same position, getting the ones we love vaccinated is going to be a tremendous relief.

    As for 3: Keir is Kinnock to Corbyn's Foot.
    Keir Starmer's closest equivalent is John Smith.
    I see him more as IDS he is certainly no John Smith
    You thought Corbyn was going to PM, so your judgement is a little out of whack.
    Your obsessed with Corbyn

    This is SKS;s gig now and he is no headliner IMO

    I will be voting for my excellent Labour Candidate locally in 2021.

    After that hopefully a leadership challenge from someone more capable of taking us forward to Govt.

    IDS os not the answer





  • Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited January 2021
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    The vote was anti Trump, just, for which Biden was able to capitalise as a relative pragmatist and centrist, the vote was not for a Democratic landslide and to shift the US left
    Casting vote in a tied Senate + Slim majority in the House + Centrist POTUS and Veep does NOT = a Radical shift Left.

    It just means a chance of getting a few things done.
    No reason you cannot get things done as President even if your party does not hold both Chambers of Congress, Reagan and Bush Snr and Nixon and Ford for example never once saw their party have full control of Congress even when they first got elected. There was a Democratic controlled House from 1969 to 1976 and 1981 to 1992 despite a Republican President and a Democratic controlled Senate from 1969 to 1976 and 1987 to 1992 too but they still managed to make deals and get legislation through.

    Biden is an experienced legislator and dealmaker as well
  • kle4 said:

    And yet even more depressingly, Nige will find words, many, many words

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1346189306680012811?s=20

    I dont know that his heart is still in the game. He didn't even throw a wobbler about the Brexit deal.
    When a man is tired of Brexit, he is tired of life
    (or has realised the grift has moved on)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825
    Disney+ trying to persuade me to re-signup by saying Live Free or Die Hard will be available via its service. An interesting strategy to say the least, I'd be more inclined to sign up if they confirmed they'd never put it on there.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a result

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
    Not my take at all. Starmer got his MPs to vote for the deal. It was a sell out by Starmer and if I'd been taking part in the poll I wouldn't have said Labour. Johnson has to own it hook line and sinker!
    Sorry but that analysis doesn't stand up. If that were the case and you were typical of the vote move in this poll then you should have seen Labour drop but Tories not go up up (assuming I believe correctly that you would not vote Tory even though you are not supporting Labour on this)

    What you have actually seen is the Labour vote stay the same, the Lib Dem vote drop and the Tory vote increase. I can't reconcile this with an anti-Brexit protest vote against Starmer.

    What is amazing me at the moment is that the Tory vote is holding up (or increasing) in spite of the dogs dinner Johnson is making of Covid.
    1. The wider population is rather more forgiving of the Govt's actions on Covid than here, especially now a vaccine has been wisely been planned for and is being administered to those they know at greatest risk.

    2. The LibDems were a safe refuge for those normally Tories, Remainers worried about No Deal. No Deal having been used merely as a negotiating ploy, it has now vanished as a concern.

    3. Skyr is bland and not to the taste of many. Better than Corbyn, but...
    1 is probably very, very relevant. How many people now have a loved one who has been vaccinated? Must be a rapidly increasing number. I don't care about the virus for myself but I am delighted half my grandparents have been vaccinated and the other half are scheduled to be soon. A number of others must be in the same position, getting the ones we love vaccinated is going to be a tremendous relief.

    As for 3: Keir is Kinnock to Corbyn's Foot.
    Keir Starmer's closest equivalent is John Smith.
    I see him more as IDS he is certainly no John Smith
    You thought Corbyn was going to PM, so your judgement is a little out of whack.
    Your obsessed with Corbyn

    This is SKS;s gig now and he is no headliner IMO

    I will be voting for my excellent Labour Candidate locally in 2021.

    After that hopefully a leadership challenge from someone more capable of taking us forward to Govt.

    IDS os not the answer
    You got the leadership wrong for the last five years, you have it wrong now. SKS has a mountain to climb, but that is not of his making.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    And yet even more depressingly, Nige will find words, many, many words

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1346189306680012811?s=20

    The thought of the thousands more deaths that Farage seems to prefer, is far more depressing.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Scott_xP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, in April we could conceivably have AZ, Pfizer, Moderna and J&J all delivering vaccine doses, it's up to the government and NHS to ensure we're in a position to use them all without delay.

    As noted elsewhere, the question is not whether the Government will fuck it up.

    The only uncertainty is how quickly, and at what scale they will completely fuck it up.
    Fancy a bet. I reckon 30 million done by the 31st March.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851

    Roger said:

    Jonathan said:

    IMO there are three things that determine current polling.

    1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.

    2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.

    3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.

    I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current polling

    1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.

    2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.

    He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
    I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.
    I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a result

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
    Not my take at all. Starmer got his MPs to vote for the deal. It was a sell out by Starmer and if I'd been taking part in the poll I wouldn't have said Labour. Johnson has to own it hook line and sinker!
    Sorry but that analysis doesn't stand up. If that were the case and you were typical of the vote move in this poll then you should have seen Labour drop but Tories not go up up (assuming I believe correctly that you would not vote Tory even though you are not supporting Labour on this)

    What you have actually seen is the Labour vote stay the same, the Lib Dem vote drop and the Tory vote increase. I can't reconcile this with an anti-Brexit protest vote against Starmer.

    What is amazing me at the moment is that the Tory vote is holding up (or increasing) in spite of the dogs dinner Johnson is making of Covid.
    1. The wider population is rather more forgiving of the Govt's actions on Covid than here, especially now a vaccine has been wisely been planned for and is being administered to those they know at greatest risk.

    2. The LibDems were a safe refuge for those normally Tories, Remainers worried about No Deal. No Deal having been used merely as a negotiating ploy, it has now vanished as a concern.

    3. Skyr is bland and not to the taste of many. Better than Corbyn, but...
    1 is probably very, very relevant. How many people now have a loved one who has been vaccinated? Must be a rapidly increasing number. I don't care about the virus for myself but I am delighted half my grandparents have been vaccinated and the other half are scheduled to be soon. A number of others must be in the same position, getting the ones we love vaccinated is going to be a tremendous relief.

    As for 3: Keir is Kinnock to Corbyn's Foot.
    Sadly still nothing for my father of 94.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,417
    edited January 2021
    Europe's vaccine blunders threaten the entire EU project

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/01/05/changed-utterly-changed-vaccine-blunder-shook-europe/

    Nah.....the solution will of course be...more EU in an ever closer union....
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    The vote was anti Trump, just, for which Biden was able to capitalise as a relative pragmatist and centrist, the vote was not for a Democratic landslide and to shift the US left
    Casting vote in a tied Senate + Slim majority in the House + Centrist POTUS and Veep does NOT = a Radical shift Left.

    It just means a chance of getting a few things done.
    Interestingly an analyst quoted by yahoo today reckons a Dem sweep will lead to a 5/10% downdraft in US stocks. Don't imagine it would do the US dollar any favours either.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,594
    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dear Mr Hancock

    If there is no evidence schools are riskier than elsewhere, would you please explain these figures?

    https://www.tes.com/news/exclusive-teacher-covid-rates-333-above-average

    When the history of covid comes to be written I don't think teachers will be among the lists of heroes. While the police the medical professions the fire departments and the shop keepers are keeping the country going all I see of teachers are those saying they wont do anything however well protected the school is because it might not be safe.
    Roger that is complete rubbish. I can only assume you don't have school age children. Our kids' teachers have moved heaven and earth to deliver teaching during this pandemic, whether in person or as now remotely. The virus was ripping through schools - our daughter caught it there before Christmas - and teachers were absolutely right to highlight the risks. The government has provided too little money, no help with planning and has been making up policy as it goes along - one minute threatening legal action against schools that close, the next ordering them to close at a few hours' notice. Blaming the teachers for the ongoing fiasco that has resulted from the government’s own incompetence is just the latest outrage, but sadly typical of Johnson's divide and rule style of government.
    The policy on schools has been chaotic, yes.

    But what are the comparative covid rates amongst - eg supermarket workers, bus drivers, taxi drivers, food factory workers and any number of other essential jobs where people have continued working throughout the pandemic? Not to mention NHS staff.

    I doubt schools are any worse than a food factory. Yet we all expect people to carry on working there because it is deemed essential.

    Are teachers essential or not?
    The school closure was not done out of any concern for teachers.
    No, indeed not.

    It was the complaints in the TES that teachers are doing worse than people in other jobs that annoyed. Yes, it isn't ideal, like everything else in this pandemic. Yes, some teachers have no doubt soldiered on in difficult conditions and they should be praised for that.

    But so have many others, many of whom aren't paid as well.

    Perhaps it is more the impression that the unions are giving that isn't helping.
  • Paperchase on the brink of administration

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55547354
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    Scott_xP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, in April we could conceivably have AZ, Pfizer, Moderna and J&J all delivering vaccine doses, it's up to the government and NHS to ensure we're in a position to use them all without delay.

    As noted elsewhere, the question is not whether the Government will fuck it up.

    The only uncertainty is how quickly, and at what scale they will completely fuck it up.
    Fancy a bet. I reckon 30 million done by the 31st March.
    30m doses or people?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a result

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
    Not my take at all. Starmer got his MPs to vote for the deal. It was a sell out by Starmer and if I'd been taking part in the poll I wouldn't have said Labour. Johnson has to own it hook line and sinker!
    Sorry but that analysis doesn't stand up. If that were the case and you were typical of the vote move in this poll then you should have seen Labour drop but Tories not go up up (assuming I believe correctly that you would not vote Tory even though you are not supporting Labour on this)

    What you have actually seen is the Labour vote stay the same, the Lib Dem vote drop and the Tory vote increase. I can't reconcile this with an anti-Brexit protest vote against Starmer.

    What is amazing me at the moment is that the Tory vote is holding up (or increasing) in spite of the dogs dinner Johnson is making of Covid.
    1. The wider population is rather more forgiving of the Govt's actions on Covid than here, especially now a vaccine has been wisely been planned for and is being administered to those they know at greatest risk.

    2. The LibDems were a safe refuge for those normally Tories, Remainers worried about No Deal. No Deal having been used merely as a negotiating ploy, it has now vanished as a concern.

    3. Skyr is bland and not to the taste of many. Better than Corbyn, but...
    1 is probably very, very relevant. How many people now have a loved one who has been vaccinated? Must be a rapidly increasing number. I don't care about the virus for myself but I am delighted half my grandparents have been vaccinated and the other half are scheduled to be soon. A number of others must be in the same position, getting the ones we love vaccinated is going to be a tremendous relief.

    As for 3: Keir is Kinnock to Corbyn's Foot.
    Keir Starmer's closest equivalent is John Smith.
    I see him more as IDS he is certainly no John Smith
    If only RLB had won the leadership...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    For Holyrood next year the fishing industry is not that relevant anyway, not one major fishing port is in a Tory held constituency or even the top 10 Tory target seats, indeed Bannffshire and Buchan coast containing Peterhead is a safe SNP seat at Holyrood even if the Tories hold Banff and Buchan at Westminster
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Europe's vaccine blunders threaten the entire EU project

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/01/05/changed-utterly-changed-vaccine-blunder-shook-europe/

    Nah.....the solution will of course be...more EU in an ever closer union....

    I don't think it's as bad as that, there will be a lot of bitterness towards the UK in the next few months though as our vaccination programme ramps up without many supply issues. Expect the likes of Macron to ramp up the anti-Britain rhetoric as we saw in his new year's message, it's the only way to cover up why they're still in lockdown 8 while the UK has mostly opened everything up in time for the summer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited January 2021

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a result

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
    Not my take at all. Starmer got his MPs to vote for the deal. It was a sell out by Starmer and if I'd been taking part in the poll I wouldn't have said Labour. Johnson has to own it hook line and sinker!
    Sorry but that analysis doesn't stand up. If that were the case and you were typical of the vote move in this poll then you should have seen Labour drop but Tories not go up up (assuming I believe correctly that you would not vote Tory even though you are not supporting Labour on this)

    What you have actually seen is the Labour vote stay the same, the Lib Dem vote drop and the Tory vote increase. I can't reconcile this with an anti-Brexit protest vote against Starmer.

    What is amazing me at the moment is that the Tory vote is holding up (or increasing) in spite of the dogs dinner Johnson is making of Covid.
    1. The wider population is rather more forgiving of the Govt's actions on Covid than here, especially now a vaccine has been wisely been planned for and is being administered to those they know at greatest risk.

    2. The LibDems were a safe refuge for those normally Tories, Remainers worried about No Deal. No Deal having been used merely as a negotiating ploy, it has now vanished as a concern.

    3. Skyr is bland and not to the taste of many. Better than Corbyn, but...
    1 is probably very, very relevant. How many people now have a loved one who has been vaccinated? Must be a rapidly increasing number. I don't care about the virus for myself but I am delighted half my grandparents have been vaccinated and the other half are scheduled to be soon. A number of others must be in the same position, getting the ones we love vaccinated is going to be a tremendous relief.

    As for 3: Keir is Kinnock to Corbyn's Foot.
    Keir Starmer's closest equivalent is John Smith.
    I see him more as IDS he is certainly no John Smith
    If only RLB had won the leadership...
    Then Labour would be 10 points behind now not 5 points behind and the LDs would not be facing near extinction
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    edited January 2021

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a result

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
    Not my take at all. Starmer got his MPs to vote for the deal. It was a sell out by Starmer and if I'd been taking part in the poll I wouldn't have said Labour. Johnson has to own it hook line and sinker!
    Sorry but that analysis doesn't stand up. If that were the case and you were typical of the vote move in this poll then you should have seen Labour drop but Tories not go up up (assuming I believe correctly that you would not vote Tory even though you are not supporting Labour on this)

    What you have actually seen is the Labour vote stay the same, the Lib Dem vote drop and the Tory vote increase. I can't reconcile this with an anti-Brexit protest vote against Starmer.

    What is amazing me at the moment is that the Tory vote is holding up (or increasing) in spite of the dogs dinner Johnson is making of Covid.
    1. The wider population is rather more forgiving of the Govt's actions on Covid than here, especially now a vaccine has been wisely been planned for and is being administered to those they know at greatest risk.

    2. The LibDems were a safe refuge for those normally Tories, Remainers worried about No Deal. No Deal having been used merely as a negotiating ploy, it has now vanished as a concern.

    3. Skyr is bland and not to the taste of many. Better than Corbyn, but...
    1 is probably very, very relevant. How many people now have a loved one who has been vaccinated? Must be a rapidly increasing number. I don't care about the virus for myself but I am delighted half my grandparents have been vaccinated and the other half are scheduled to be soon. A number of others must be in the same position, getting the ones we love vaccinated is going to be a tremendous relief.

    As for 3: Keir is Kinnock to Corbyn's Foot.
    Keir Starmer's closest equivalent is John Smith.
    I see him more as IDS he is certainly no John Smith
    If only RLB had won the leadership...
    She was shit i didt vote for her.

    I voted for argueably the most right wing candidate.

    Only one of the 3 with a personality and by pure coincidence the same one as you
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    Good post.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    The vote was anti Trump, just, for which Biden was able to capitalise as a relative pragmatist and centrist, the vote was not for a Democratic landslide and to shift the US left
    Casting vote in a tied Senate + Slim majority in the House + Centrist POTUS and Veep does NOT = a Radical shift Left.

    It just means a chance of getting a few things done.
    No reason you cannot get things done as President even if your party does not hold both Chambers of Congress, Reagan and Bush Snr and Nixon and Ford for example never once saw their party have full control of Congress even when they first got elected. There was a Democratic controlled House from 1969 to 1976 and 1981 to 1992 despite a Republican President and a Democratic controlled Senate from 1969 to 1976 and 1987 to 1992 too but they still managed to make deals and get legislation through.

    Biden is an experienced legislator and dealmaker as well
    Sure. But let's drop the line that if the Dems double up in Georgia it unleashes 4 years of socialism on America. This is nothing but a piece of Republican campaign propaganda.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Scott_xP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, in April we could conceivably have AZ, Pfizer, Moderna and J&J all delivering vaccine doses, it's up to the government and NHS to ensure we're in a position to use them all without delay.

    As noted elsewhere, the question is not whether the Government will fuck it up.

    The only uncertainty is how quickly, and at what scale they will completely fuck it up.
    Fancy a bet. I reckon 30 million done by the 31st March.
    30m doses or people?
    People
  • Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    I don't think its reasonable to say anything blanket about the Scottish fishing industry, it will be varied in its views just as Scots in general are.

    Given that approximately half of all Scots are pro-independence, pro-SNP then of course some in the fishing industry will be like Scott's latest favourite person to Tweet.

    But just as a third of all Scotts were pro-Brexit of course there will be some pro-Brexit, pro-Tory Scottish fishermen too.

    It simply isn't reasonable to expect them to be all one or the other.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,386

    Media stoking the bog roll apocalypse again..shock horror people coming out of CostCo will loads of stuff.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/13651516/panic-buyers-loo-roll-third-national-lockdown/

    All calm at my local supermarket according to reports from mates.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited January 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    I think it's more a case that fisherpeople don't all benefit from Brexit. Only a few get extra quota; everyone has to deal with more red tape adding costs that go to the bottom line. The gentleman in the video farms and sells live seafood so doesn't get quota, while the red tape adds delay and costs that are nearly fatal to his business. Why should he be pleased?
  • Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    The strategy of PB Brexiteers telling disgruntled fishermen (from all over the UK) that in fact they have a great deal is a cracker.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,313
    edited January 2021
    Roger said:

    Jonathan said:

    IMO there are three things that determine current polling.

    1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.

    2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.

    3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.

    I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current polling

    1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If a deal is worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.

    2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.

    He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
    I just don't think you're right on 1. Nobody really thinks Starmer's had a damascene conversion or is Brexit's most whole-hearted supporter. Everybody knows he opposed Brexit, and hasn't changed his mind. The issue is that he, and Remain, lost and 'get Brexit done' won. On the specific vote on the deal, voting in favour was not an indication of support for Brexit (already done), but for any sort of deal being better than crashing out with no deal. I suspect you underestimate Starmer.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    For Holyrood next year the fishing industry is not that relevant anyway, not one major fishing port is in a Tory held constituency or even the top 10 Tory target seats, indeed Bannffshire and Buchan coast containing Peterhead is a safe SNP seat at Holyrood even if the Tories hold Banff and Buchan at Westminster
    This year, Rip van Rajoy.

    Poor, old fishing, dropped by Yoons like a used tissue (and boy did they use a lot of tissues over fishing when it suited them).
  • kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    Good post.
    Except it misses the ridiculous power that Mitch McConnell wields if he's Senate Majority Leader. He can just refuse to bring a vote on issues he knows he will lose the vote on. If Mitch is Majority Leader he can be a unilateral roadblock on anything much happening for the next 2 years.

    As a clear example Puerto Rico have voted unambiguously now for Statehood. It is a long-standing policy of both the Republican Party as well as the Democrats that PR can become a State if they voted for it. Some Republican Senators like Marco Rubio are long-standing advocates of Puerto Rico statehood. But Mitch McConnell opposes it despite it being official GOP policy to support it and has said he would never permit there to be a vote on it. If there was a vote then there is a clear majority in the Senate to back it - but Mitch will veto any vote.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    That's true, but that the Democrats could clearly get more done if they win both seats doesn't mean it would be a radical agenda if they did. Romney and Collins would naturally push back harder on even more moderate stuff than someone within the Democrat caucus, so it really does stop a lot of even moderate things if the GOP win either of the seats. But it wouldn't be a complete disaster at least.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2021
    Even when they FINALLY get round to it, they’re going off at half cock:

    https://twitter.com/ppaulcharles/status/1346368517579431936?s=21

    The exemption for U.K. residents “because not every country can do PCR tests” is horse feathers. Tests from all - and if arrivals haven’t got a test then mandatory hotel quarantine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    The strategy of PB Brexiteers telling disgruntled fishermen (from all over the UK) that in fact they have a great deal is a cracker.
    There's nothing novel in that strategy. Every government everywhere tells people to ignore what they may think, actually they've done a great job on everything.
  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    And Murkowski.

    Romney is a slightly odd one. Yes, he loathes Trump. But he's also fairly conservative.

    There are also some understated swing Senators. If you look at people like Jerry Moran and Mike Lee, both are fairly standard conservative Republicans in many ways but they don't actually reliably vote with Trump - they just don't make a big deal of it like Romney. Both also represent quite small states and therefore the President is in more of a position to do them a favour in exchange for getting something over the line - they aren't going to do it on an ultra-liberal bit of legislation, but Biden isn't an ultra-liberal.
  • FFS!

    What's the betting that some of those people photographed buying from a wholesaler are themselves convenience store retailers buying stock to sell to their customers?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Pulpstar said:

    On developing nations, outside of South Africa and some of the more connected North African countries (Tunisia) - infection rates in much of Africa, Sierra Leone for instance are really low.
    These countries dealt with Ebola, have youngish populations, v limited obesity and aren't particularly globally connected - so they may well get the vaccine later than others but overall should fare well.

    For most of these countries, a huge number of people don’t travel far from home and only a tiny fraction travel internationally. Vaccinating those few international travellers (and insisting on vaccines or tests for incoming visitors) is probably enough to dampen down the spread sufficiently until we are making vaccines by the billion.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    I think it's more a case that fisherpeople don't all benefit from Brexit. Only a few get extra quota; everyone has to deal with more red tape adding costs that go to the bottom line. The gentleman in the video farms and sells live seafood so doesn't get quota, while the red tape adds delay and costs that are nearly fatal to his business. Why should he be pleased?
    Exactly. And it has to be live to get top price.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    I don't think its reasonable to say anything blanket about the Scottish fishing industry, it will be varied in its views just as Scots in general are.

    Given that approximately half of all Scots are pro-independence, pro-SNP then of course some in the fishing industry will be like Scott's latest favourite person to Tweet.

    But just as a third of all Scotts were pro-Brexit of course there will be some pro-Brexit, pro-Tory Scottish fishermen too.

    It simply isn't reasonable to expect them to be all one or the other.
    Oh, absolutely. But some on PB have been preaching the absolute opposite - as have the SCUP and the media. ,
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    And Murkowski.

    Romney is a slightly odd one. Yes, he loathes Trump. But he's also fairly conservative.

    There are also some understated swing Senators. If you look at people like Jerry Moran and Mike Lee, both are fairly standard conservative Republicans in many ways but they don't actually reliably vote with Trump - they just don't make a big deal of it like Romney. Both also represent quite small states and therefore the President is in more of a position to do them a favour in exchange for getting something over the line - they aren't going to do it on an ultra-liberal bit of legislation, but Biden isn't an ultra-liberal.
    What about Sasse? He's been very vocal rejecting Trump's fraud claims but given his state I'd assume he was pretty conservative, but I don't know his voting record.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,417
    edited January 2021
    Gordon Brittas is going to tell us how Boris is wrong on everything, all too confusing, too much dithering, not spending enough money, test and trace must be fixed, yadda yadda yadda...but never close the borders.

    UK Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer will make a televised statement responding to the prime minister's announcement of a new lockdown for England at 19:00 GMT on BBC1, the party says.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kle4 said:

    Disney+ trying to persuade me to re-signup by saying Live Free or Die Hard will be available via its service. An interesting strategy to say the least, I'd be more inclined to sign up if they confirmed they'd never put it on there.

    Lots of new content for grown ups coming in February
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    Good post.
    Except it misses the ridiculous power that Mitch McConnell wields if he's Senate Majority Leader. He can just refuse to bring a vote on issues he knows he will lose the vote on. If Mitch is Majority Leader he can be a unilateral roadblock on anything much happening for the next 2 years.

    As a clear example Puerto Rico have voted unambiguously now for Statehood. It is a long-standing policy of both the Republican Party as well as the Democrats that PR can become a State if they voted for it. Some Republican Senators like Marco Rubio are long-standing advocates of Puerto Rico statehood. But Mitch McConnell opposes it despite it being official GOP policy to support it and has said he would never permit there to be a vote on it. If there was a vote then there is a clear majority in the Senate to back it - but Mitch will veto any vote.
    Yep, this. McConnell is a dreadful individual to wield the gavel in the senate, the US would be far better off with Schumer there.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Even when they FINALLY get round to it, they’re going off at half cock:

    https://twitter.com/ppaulcharles/status/1346368517579431936?s=21

    The exemption for U.K. residents “because not every country can do PCR tests” is horse feathers. Tests from all - and if arrivals haven’t got a test then mandatory hotel quarantine.

    It should be ankle tags for UK residents for 7 days and then a negative PCR test to get rid of it.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Sturgeon closed schools weeks ago. Boris closed them yesterday. How on earth can you try and concoct the notion that Sturgeon is front running Johnson by a couple of hours?

    Because it fits into the preconception/excuse/straw to grasp at that the SG is as shite as the UK/England one.

    I've noticed very little comment by the PBTories about the much lower hospitalization rate per 100K in Scotland in recent months, and the fact that the SG has called its lockdown at a much lower level than did the other three home nations, but did so when the numbers started going up sharply. Whether this is going to be sufficient is another matter, of course, but it does offer a counterexample of how things might have been done.
    I'd wait until seeing the back dated hospital figures that will be released today before drawing too many conclusions.

    This is a make or break day for how fucked Scotland is after 5 days of flying blind
    Any idea why they stopped reporting for so long? Timing a tad inopportune.
    Fucked if I know. Sweden has done exactly the same.

    It's an exciting day or backed dated day-of-report apocalypse headline numbers
    The headline "cases reported" number will just be one day as that was published every day.

    But all the details will be filled in and a bunch of places will suddenly find themselves with double the case numbers they had before the reporting break.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    That's true, but that the Democrats could clearly get more done if they win both seats doesn't mean it would be a radical agenda if they did. Romney and Collins would naturally push back harder on even more moderate stuff than someone within the Democrat caucus, so it really does stop a lot of even moderate things if the GOP win either of the seats. But it wouldn't be a complete disaster at least.
    I would actually say Joe Manchin, the WV Democratic Senator who would have the casting vote if the Democrats won both seats, is more conservative on most issues than Susan Collins, the moderate Maine Republican Senator who would have the casting vote if the GOP won 1 of the seats
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825
    They cannot help themselves on such a story. The prospect of people looking at empty shelves is too alluring.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    I don't think its reasonable to say anything blanket about the Scottish fishing industry, it will be varied in its views just as Scots in general are.

    Given that approximately half of all Scots are pro-independence, pro-SNP then of course some in the fishing industry will be like Scott's latest favourite person to Tweet.

    But just as a third of all Scotts were pro-Brexit of course there will be some pro-Brexit, pro-Tory Scottish fishermen too.

    It simply isn't reasonable to expect them to be all one or the other.
    Oh, absolutely. But some on PB have been preaching the absolute opposite - as have the SCUP and the media. ,
    Some on PB wouldn't know their ARSE from their ELBOW.

    Not JackW or Sunil of course.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    The strategy of PB Brexiteers telling disgruntled fishermen (from all over the UK) that in fact they have a great deal is a cracker.
    There's nothing novel in that strategy. Every government everywhere tells people to ignore what they may think, actually they've done a great job on everything.
    I think this is a bit more significant. Fishing is the one and only consequential benefit of Brexit to set against the huge list of Brexit losses. If we Brexit, we get more fish. Simples.

    But if it turns out even fish is a loss, Brexit has nothing going for it at all.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kle4 said:

    They cannot help themselves on such a story. The prospect of people looking at empty shelves is too alluring.
    Even if their "story" drives such behaviour - just as happened last time
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,417
    edited January 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Even when they FINALLY get round to it, they’re going off at half cock:

    https://twitter.com/ppaulcharles/status/1346368517579431936?s=21

    The exemption for U.K. residents “because not every country can do PCR tests” is horse feathers. Tests from all - and if arrivals haven’t got a test then mandatory hotel quarantine.

    It should be ankle tags for UK residents for 7 days and then a negative PCR test to get rid of it.
    How can Australia stick people in hotels, Iceland can stick people in hotels, and the UK can't.....there are bloody 10,000s of rooms all within short distances of all the major airports in the UK.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,396

    Even when they FINALLY get round to it, they’re going off at half cock:

    https://twitter.com/ppaulcharles/status/1346368517579431936?s=21

    The exemption for U.K. residents “because not every country can do PCR tests” is horse feathers. Tests from all - and if arrivals haven’t got a test then mandatory hotel quarantine.

    And the hotel should be at the traveller's expense - will encourage people to consider whether they really need to travel
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    That's true, but that the Democrats could clearly get more done if they win both seats doesn't mean it would be a radical agenda if they did. Romney and Collins would naturally push back harder on even more moderate stuff than someone within the Democrat caucus, so it really does stop a lot of even moderate things if the GOP win either of the seats. But it wouldn't be a complete disaster at least.
    I almost want the Dems to win both those seats just to see if you are correct. I am not at all sure you are.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    MaxPB said:

    Even when they FINALLY get round to it, they’re going off at half cock:

    https://twitter.com/ppaulcharles/status/1346368517579431936?s=21

    The exemption for U.K. residents “because not every country can do PCR tests” is horse feathers. Tests from all - and if arrivals haven’t got a test then mandatory hotel quarantine.

    It should be ankle tags for UK residents for 7 days and then a negative PCR test to get rid of it.
    How can Australia stick people in hotels, Iceland can stick people in hotels, and the UK can't.....there are bloody 10,000s of rooms all within short distances of all the major airports in the UK.
    I know it's ridiculous, make it part of the ticket cost, that or an ankle tag. Pick a method.
  • Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    I agree and in my own fishing family we have pro independence and pro union SNP supporters
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,396
    Pulpstar said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    Good post.
    Except it misses the ridiculous power that Mitch McConnell wields if he's Senate Majority Leader. He can just refuse to bring a vote on issues he knows he will lose the vote on. If Mitch is Majority Leader he can be a unilateral roadblock on anything much happening for the next 2 years.

    As a clear example Puerto Rico have voted unambiguously now for Statehood. It is a long-standing policy of both the Republican Party as well as the Democrats that PR can become a State if they voted for it. Some Republican Senators like Marco Rubio are long-standing advocates of Puerto Rico statehood. But Mitch McConnell opposes it despite it being official GOP policy to support it and has said he would never permit there to be a vote on it. If there was a vote then there is a clear majority in the Senate to back it - but Mitch will veto any vote.
    Yep, this. McConnell is a dreadful individual to wield the gavel in the senate, the US would be far better off with Schumer there.
    Perhaps the Democrats should get John Bercow into the Senate - he has form in this area... :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825
    edited January 2021
    Floater said:


    Lots of new content for grown ups coming in February

    If that's the adult content they are trying to sell it on it does not speak well of that new content.

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    Good post.
    Except it misses the ridiculous power that Mitch McConnell wields if he's Senate Majority Leader. He can just refuse to bring a vote on issues he knows he will lose the vote on. If Mitch is Majority Leader he can be a unilateral roadblock on anything much happening for the next 2 years.

    As a clear example Puerto Rico have voted unambiguously now for Statehood. It is a long-standing policy of both the Republican Party as well as the Democrats that PR can become a State if they voted for it. Some Republican Senators like Marco Rubio are long-standing advocates of Puerto Rico statehood. But Mitch McConnell opposes it despite it being official GOP policy to support it and has said he would never permit there to be a vote on it. If there was a vote then there is a clear majority in the Senate to back it - but Mitch will veto any vote.
    Hard to see the 'official' justification for not even bringing it to a vote if the party policy is to support the wishes of Puerto Ricans.

    I see the statehood referendum, was within a few hundredths of a percent of being 52-48.
  • I thought the plan from Disney was that they would use Disney+ for the kiddie stuff and Hulu for more mature content?
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    And Murkowski.

    Romney is a slightly odd one. Yes, he loathes Trump. But he's also fairly conservative.

    There are also some understated swing Senators. If you look at people like Jerry Moran and Mike Lee, both are fairly standard conservative Republicans in many ways but they don't actually reliably vote with Trump - they just don't make a big deal of it like Romney. Both also represent quite small states and therefore the President is in more of a position to do them a favour in exchange for getting something over the line - they aren't going to do it on an ultra-liberal bit of legislation, but Biden isn't an ultra-liberal.
    What about Sasse? He's been very vocal rejecting Trump's fraud claims but given his state I'd assume he was pretty conservative, but I don't know his voting record.
    He's very conservative.

    People tend to assume GOP Senators who despise Trump are the key swing voters. Not necessarily. Those people are clearly independent minded and willing to rebel, but calling out Trump and breaking from McConnell are different things, and Trumpism and conservatism are also different things.

    The game changes on 20th January. Does Lindsey Graham revert to being a moderate Republican, for example? The man is a living weathercock - he went from Never Trump to head cheerleader, so why not flip right back? He's shameless enough.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    That's true, but that the Democrats could clearly get more done if they win both seats doesn't mean it would be a radical agenda if they did. Romney and Collins would naturally push back harder on even more moderate stuff than someone within the Democrat caucus, so it really does stop a lot of even moderate things if the GOP win either of the seats. But it wouldn't be a complete disaster at least.
    I almost want the Dems to win both those seats just to see if you are correct. I am not at all sure you are.
    I don't think some on the fence Georgians would be either, and might be happier with the Dems winning just one, just in case.
  • I thought the plan from Disney was that they would use Disney+ for the kiddie stuff and Hulu for more mature content?

    Do we have to subscribe to something else to get the content then? I've already got a subscription for Disney, Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Sky and worst of all the licence fee. How much more is there to be?

    If a Disney subscription came packaged with a Hulu subscription and vice-versa (thus keeping Disney clean for children) then that would make sense.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    I don't think its reasonable to say anything blanket about the Scottish fishing industry, it will be varied in its views just as Scots in general are.

    Given that approximately half of all Scots are pro-independence, pro-SNP then of course some in the fishing industry will be like Scott's latest favourite person to Tweet.

    But just as a third of all Scotts were pro-Brexit of course there will be some pro-Brexit, pro-Tory Scottish fishermen too.

    It simply isn't reasonable to expect them to be all one or the other.
    Oh, absolutely. But some on PB have been preaching the absolute opposite - as have the SCUP and the media. ,
    I think its worth bearing in mind that however disappointed fishermen may be about the Brexit outcome it is still infinitely preferable to re-entry to the EU and CFP. Few in Peterhead will choose to vote for that. So I think you still see a move from SNP to SCUP in the the NE seats (compared to 2016) it just won't be as pronounced as it might otherwise have been.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    I thought the plan from Disney was that they would use Disney+ for the kiddie stuff and Hulu for more mature content?

    I thought that sort of stuff went on Pornhub?

    Not that I subscribe to any of these...
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    Good post.
    Except it misses the ridiculous power that Mitch McConnell wields if he's Senate Majority Leader. He can just refuse to bring a vote on issues he knows he will lose the vote on. If Mitch is Majority Leader he can be a unilateral roadblock on anything much happening for the next 2 years.

    As a clear example Puerto Rico have voted unambiguously now for Statehood. It is a long-standing policy of both the Republican Party as well as the Democrats that PR can become a State if they voted for it. Some Republican Senators like Marco Rubio are long-standing advocates of Puerto Rico statehood. But Mitch McConnell opposes it despite it being official GOP policy to support it and has said he would never permit there to be a vote on it. If there was a vote then there is a clear majority in the Senate to back it - but Mitch will veto any vote.
    Couldn't VP Harris step in and do the presiding? McConnell officially is only her "pro tempore" deputy.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,459
    How many people did we vaccinate yesterday? How many will we do today?
    This week?
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    For Holyrood next year the fishing industry is not that relevant anyway
    "so fuck them" says HYUFD
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,417
    edited January 2021

    I thought the plan from Disney was that they would use Disney+ for the kiddie stuff and Hulu for more mature content?

    Do we have to subscribe to something else to get the content then? I've already got a subscription for Disney, Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Sky and worst of all the licence fee. How much more is there to be?

    If a Disney subscription came packaged with a Hulu subscription and vice-versa (thus keeping Disney clean for children) then that would make sense.
    Don't forget ESPN+....It might just be their US strategy, but this is what you have to pay for there.

    Disney has announced a new combined bundle for its streaming services, which will offer Disney Plus, ad-free Hulu, and ESPN Plus for $18.99

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/10/22168484/disney-streaming-bundle-ad-free-hulu-disney-plus-espn-price-release-date
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Gordon Brittas is going to tell us how Boris is wrong on everything, all too confusing, too much dithering, not spending enough money, test and trace must be fixed, yadda yadda yadda...but never close the borders.

    UK Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer will make a televised statement responding to the prime minister's announcement of a new lockdown for England at 19:00 GMT on BBC1, the party says.

    IIRC he screwed this up last time he did it, by making it over-the-top partisan and ranting at the government.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited January 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    I don't think its reasonable to say anything blanket about the Scottish fishing industry, it will be varied in its views just as Scots in general are.

    Given that approximately half of all Scots are pro-independence, pro-SNP then of course some in the fishing industry will be like Scott's latest favourite person to Tweet.

    But just as a third of all Scotts were pro-Brexit of course there will be some pro-Brexit, pro-Tory Scottish fishermen too.

    It simply isn't reasonable to expect them to be all one or the other.
    Oh, absolutely. But some on PB have been preaching the absolute opposite - as have the SCUP and the media. ,
    I think its worth bearing in mind that however disappointed fishermen may be about the Brexit outcome it is still infinitely preferable to re-entry to the EU and CFP. Few in Peterhead will choose to vote for that. So I think you still see a move from SNP to SCUP in the the NE seats (compared to 2016) it just won't be as pronounced as it might otherwise have been.
    Both Peterhead and Fraserburgh, 2 of the the 3 largest fishing ports in Scotland alongside Shetland, are in Bannffshire and Buchan Coast which had an SNP majority of 6,583 in 2016 so I doubt the SCUP had much chance of winning it anyway.

    Perthshire South and Kinrosshire, Edinburgh Pentlands, Angus North and Mearns, Aberdeenshire South and North Kincardine, Moray, Edinburgh Southern and Perthshire North are easier Holyrood constituency target seats for the SCUP in May than Banffshire and Buchan Coast
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    MaxPB said:

    Even when they FINALLY get round to it, they’re going off at half cock:

    https://twitter.com/ppaulcharles/status/1346368517579431936?s=21

    The exemption for U.K. residents “because not every country can do PCR tests” is horse feathers. Tests from all - and if arrivals haven’t got a test then mandatory hotel quarantine.

    It should be ankle tags for UK residents for 7 days and then a negative PCR test to get rid of it.
    How can Australia stick people in hotels, Iceland can stick people in hotels, and the UK can't.....there are bloody 10,000s of rooms all within short distances of all the major airports in the UK.
    Formula 1 are about to call off the season-opener in March, becuase the government and the sport couldn’t agree on the quarantine requirements. Australia insisted on everyone getting 14 days in isolation hotels, with no exceptions.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    And Murkowski.

    Romney is a slightly odd one. Yes, he loathes Trump. But he's also fairly conservative.

    There are also some understated swing Senators. If you look at people like Jerry Moran and Mike Lee, both are fairly standard conservative Republicans in many ways but they don't actually reliably vote with Trump - they just don't make a big deal of it like Romney. Both also represent quite small states and therefore the President is in more of a position to do them a favour in exchange for getting something over the line - they aren't going to do it on an ultra-liberal bit of legislation, but Biden isn't an ultra-liberal.
    Romney's hostility has a lot to do when he was humiliated after begging Trump for the SoS job. Making Romney out to be somewhat principled is missing the mark.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Europe's vaccine blunders threaten the entire EU project

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/01/05/changed-utterly-changed-vaccine-blunder-shook-europe/

    Nah.....the solution will of course be...more EU in an ever closer union....

    The solution is always More EU. It’s one of the biggest reasons the UK left.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    That's true, but that the Democrats could clearly get more done if they win both seats doesn't mean it would be a radical agenda if they did. Romney and Collins would naturally push back harder on even more moderate stuff than someone within the Democrat caucus, so it really does stop a lot of even moderate things if the GOP win either of the seats. But it wouldn't be a complete disaster at least.
    I almost want the Dems to win both those seats just to see if you are correct. I am not at all sure you are.
    I don't think some on the fence Georgians would be either, and might be happier with the Dems winning just one, just in case.
    I'm sticking with the view it will be Ossoff / Loeffler. While the news on the Black vote helps, I think the wife-beating allegations probably hurts Warnock in the suburbs.
  • Sandpit said:

    Gordon Brittas is going to tell us how Boris is wrong on everything, all too confusing, too much dithering, not spending enough money, test and trace must be fixed, yadda yadda yadda...but never close the borders.

    UK Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer will make a televised statement responding to the prime minister's announcement of a new lockdown for England at 19:00 GMT on BBC1, the party says.

    IIRC he screwed this up last time he did it, by making it over-the-top partisan and ranting at the government.
    There's a reason many previous LOTOs declined the opportunity to respond to a Prime Ministerial statement like this; sometimes there is nothing to say in reply.

    If he agrees too vocally with the government then the likes of Roger and BJO get pissed off. If he disagrees too vocally he pisses off moderates who think the right thing is being done. So maybe simply not being on the screens right now is the best option of all - pop back up when you have something to actually say.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    And Murkowski.

    Romney is a slightly odd one. Yes, he loathes Trump. But he's also fairly conservative.

    There are also some understated swing Senators. If you look at people like Jerry Moran and Mike Lee, both are fairly standard conservative Republicans in many ways but they don't actually reliably vote with Trump - they just don't make a big deal of it like Romney. Both also represent quite small states and therefore the President is in more of a position to do them a favour in exchange for getting something over the line - they aren't going to do it on an ultra-liberal bit of legislation, but Biden isn't an ultra-liberal.
    Romney's hostility has a lot to do when he was humiliated after begging Trump for the SoS job. Making Romney out to be somewhat principled is missing the mark.
    Not his finest hour. But the right thing for the wrong reason is still a right thing.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:


    Lots of new content for grown ups coming in February

    If that's the adult content they are trying to sell it on it does not speak well of that new content.

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    Good post.
    Except it misses the ridiculous power that Mitch McConnell wields if he's Senate Majority Leader. He can just refuse to bring a vote on issues he knows he will lose the vote on. If Mitch is Majority Leader he can be a unilateral roadblock on anything much happening for the next 2 years.

    As a clear example Puerto Rico have voted unambiguously now for Statehood. It is a long-standing policy of both the Republican Party as well as the Democrats that PR can become a State if they voted for it. Some Republican Senators like Marco Rubio are long-standing advocates of Puerto Rico statehood. But Mitch McConnell opposes it despite it being official GOP policy to support it and has said he would never permit there to be a vote on it. If there was a vote then there is a clear majority in the Senate to back it - but Mitch will veto any vote.
    Hard to see the 'official' justification for not even bringing it to a vote if the party policy is to support the wishes of Puerto Ricans.

    I see the statehood referendum, was within a few hundredths of a percent of being 52-48.
    The question, interestingly, is whether the Democrats would be so keen given the shifts in the Hispanic vote in the election. It might temper their view.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,418
    Sandpit said:

    Europe's vaccine blunders threaten the entire EU project

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/01/05/changed-utterly-changed-vaccine-blunder-shook-europe/

    Nah.....the solution will of course be...more EU in an ever closer union....

    The solution is always More EU. It’s one of the biggest reasons the UK left.
    You guys are obsessed. Still.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,473

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a result

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
    Not my take at all. Starmer got his MPs to vote for the deal. It was a sell out by Starmer and if I'd been taking part in the poll I wouldn't have said Labour. Johnson has to own it hook line and sinker!
    Sorry but that analysis doesn't stand up. If that were the case and you were typical of the vote move in this poll then you should have seen Labour drop but Tories not go up up (assuming I believe correctly that you would not vote Tory even though you are not supporting Labour on this)

    What you have actually seen is the Labour vote stay the same, the Lib Dem vote drop and the Tory vote increase. I can't reconcile this with an anti-Brexit protest vote against Starmer.

    What is amazing me at the moment is that the Tory vote is holding up (or increasing) in spite of the dogs dinner Johnson is making of Covid.
    1. The wider population is rather more forgiving of the Govt's actions on Covid than here, especially now a vaccine has been wisely been planned for and is being administered to those they know at greatest risk.

    2. The LibDems were a safe refuge for those normally Tories, Remainers worried about No Deal. No Deal having been used merely as a negotiating ploy, it has now vanished as a concern.

    3. Skyr is bland and not to the taste of many. Better than Corbyn, but...
    1 is probably very, very relevant. How many people now have a loved one who has been vaccinated? Must be a rapidly increasing number. I don't care about the virus for myself but I am delighted half my grandparents have been vaccinated and the other half are scheduled to be soon. A number of others must be in the same position, getting the ones we love vaccinated is going to be a tremendous relief.

    As for 3: Keir is Kinnock to Corbyn's Foot.
    Keir Starmer's closest equivalent is John Smith.
    I see him more as IDS he is certainly no John Smith
    If only RLB had won the leadership...
    Rayner would have won. RLB is just too drippy. Wrong choice by the left.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,825
    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:


    Lots of new content for grown ups coming in February

    If that's the adult content they are trying to sell it on it does not speak well of that new content.

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    Good post.
    Except it misses the ridiculous power that Mitch McConnell wields if he's Senate Majority Leader. He can just refuse to bring a vote on issues he knows he will lose the vote on. If Mitch is Majority Leader he can be a unilateral roadblock on anything much happening for the next 2 years.

    As a clear example Puerto Rico have voted unambiguously now for Statehood. It is a long-standing policy of both the Republican Party as well as the Democrats that PR can become a State if they voted for it. Some Republican Senators like Marco Rubio are long-standing advocates of Puerto Rico statehood. But Mitch McConnell opposes it despite it being official GOP policy to support it and has said he would never permit there to be a vote on it. If there was a vote then there is a clear majority in the Senate to back it - but Mitch will veto any vote.
    Hard to see the 'official' justification for not even bringing it to a vote if the party policy is to support the wishes of Puerto Ricans.

    I see the statehood referendum, was within a few hundredths of a percent of being 52-48.
    The question, interestingly, is whether the Democrats would be so keen given the shifts in the Hispanic vote in the election. It might temper their view.
    I would be most disappointed if it did but no doubt some number would so shortsighted.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    That's true, but that the Democrats could clearly get more done if they win both seats doesn't mean it would be a radical agenda if they did. Romney and Collins would naturally push back harder on even more moderate stuff than someone within the Democrat caucus, so it really does stop a lot of even moderate things if the GOP win either of the seats. But it wouldn't be a complete disaster at least.
    I almost want the Dems to win both those seats just to see if you are correct. I am not at all sure you are.
    I don't think some on the fence Georgians would be either, and might be happier with the Dems winning just one, just in case.
    I'm interested in @SeaShantyIrish2 view that rural voting has slumped. I was reading an article the other day on Franklin County, which is heavily Republican and rural, which stated that the early voting numbers actually looked decent for the Republicans.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,386
    Meanwhile in France...

    “We are facing a state-scandal,” said Jean Rottner, president of the Grand Est region and himself a critical care doctor. “It is harder to get vaccinated than it is to buy a car.”

    Telegraph
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Not for the first time Shapps is the problem:

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1346444984371847175?s=21
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,344

    Gordon Brittas is going to tell us how Boris is wrong on everything, all too confusing, too much dithering, not spending enough money, test and trace must be fixed, yadda yadda yadda...but never close the borders.

    UK Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer will make a televised statement responding to the prime minister's announcement of a new lockdown for England at 19:00 GMT on BBC1, the party says.

    "Gordon Brittas" is going to stick, isn't it? 😂
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:


    Lots of new content for grown ups coming in February

    If that's the adult content they are trying to sell it on it does not speak well of that new content.

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    Good post.
    Except it misses the ridiculous power that Mitch McConnell wields if he's Senate Majority Leader. He can just refuse to bring a vote on issues he knows he will lose the vote on. If Mitch is Majority Leader he can be a unilateral roadblock on anything much happening for the next 2 years.

    As a clear example Puerto Rico have voted unambiguously now for Statehood. It is a long-standing policy of both the Republican Party as well as the Democrats that PR can become a State if they voted for it. Some Republican Senators like Marco Rubio are long-standing advocates of Puerto Rico statehood. But Mitch McConnell opposes it despite it being official GOP policy to support it and has said he would never permit there to be a vote on it. If there was a vote then there is a clear majority in the Senate to back it - but Mitch will veto any vote.
    Hard to see the 'official' justification for not even bringing it to a vote if the party policy is to support the wishes of Puerto Ricans.

    I see the statehood referendum, was within a few hundredths of a percent of being 52-48.
    The question, interestingly, is whether the Democrats would be so keen given the shifts in the Hispanic vote in the election. It might temper their view.
    I would be most disappointed if it did but no doubt some number would so shortsighted.
    I think it has thrown a spanner in the works. The Democrats think they have an issue, hence why they have been high profile Hispanic appointments to the Cabinet (and California's new Senator), to the extent where the Black caucus is getting more and more vocal about the lack of Black appointees.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    And Murkowski.

    Romney is a slightly odd one. Yes, he loathes Trump. But he's also fairly conservative.

    There are also some understated swing Senators. If you look at people like Jerry Moran and Mike Lee, both are fairly standard conservative Republicans in many ways but they don't actually reliably vote with Trump - they just don't make a big deal of it like Romney. Both also represent quite small states and therefore the President is in more of a position to do them a favour in exchange for getting something over the line - they aren't going to do it on an ultra-liberal bit of legislation, but Biden isn't an ultra-liberal.
    Romney's hostility has a lot to do when he was humiliated after begging Trump for the SoS job. Making Romney out to be somewhat principled is missing the mark.
    Not his finest hour. But the right thing for the wrong reason is still a right thing.
    I know but it was totally embarrassing. I lost a lot of respect for him and, TBH, more so for how his actions after are clearly motivated by the fact he didn't get the SoS job.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a result

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
    Not my take at all. Starmer got his MPs to vote for the deal. It was a sell out by Starmer and if I'd been taking part in the poll I wouldn't have said Labour. Johnson has to own it hook line and sinker!
    Sorry but that analysis doesn't stand up. If that were the case and you were typical of the vote move in this poll then you should have seen Labour drop but Tories not go up up (assuming I believe correctly that you would not vote Tory even though you are not supporting Labour on this)

    What you have actually seen is the Labour vote stay the same, the Lib Dem vote drop and the Tory vote increase. I can't reconcile this with an anti-Brexit protest vote against Starmer.

    What is amazing me at the moment is that the Tory vote is holding up (or increasing) in spite of the dogs dinner Johnson is making of Covid.
    1. The wider population is rather more forgiving of the Govt's actions on Covid than here, especially now a vaccine has been wisely been planned for and is being administered to those they know at greatest risk.

    2. The LibDems were a safe refuge for those normally Tories, Remainers worried about No Deal. No Deal having been used merely as a negotiating ploy, it has now vanished as a concern.

    3. Skyr is bland and not to the taste of many. Better than Corbyn, but...
    1 is probably very, very relevant. How many people now have a loved one who has been vaccinated? Must be a rapidly increasing number. I don't care about the virus for myself but I am delighted half my grandparents have been vaccinated and the other half are scheduled to be soon. A number of others must be in the same position, getting the ones we love vaccinated is going to be a tremendous relief.

    As for 3: Keir is Kinnock to Corbyn's Foot.
    Keir Starmer's closest equivalent is John Smith.
    I see him more as IDS he is certainly no John Smith
    If only RLB had won the leadership...
    Rayner would have won. RLB is just too drippy. Wrong choice by the left.
    Rayner is just a female John Prescott, fine as Starmer's Deputy not for the main job
  • MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    And Murkowski.

    Romney is a slightly odd one. Yes, he loathes Trump. But he's also fairly conservative.

    There are also some understated swing Senators. If you look at people like Jerry Moran and Mike Lee, both are fairly standard conservative Republicans in many ways but they don't actually reliably vote with Trump - they just don't make a big deal of it like Romney. Both also represent quite small states and therefore the President is in more of a position to do them a favour in exchange for getting something over the line - they aren't going to do it on an ultra-liberal bit of legislation, but Biden isn't an ultra-liberal.
    Romney's hostility has a lot to do when he was humiliated after begging Trump for the SoS job. Making Romney out to be somewhat principled is missing the mark.
    I agree, and that may also be a reason why he'd continue to rebel post-20th January. It's quite a good middle finger... "look, I'm still relevant and making the political weather, unlike the fat, orange nobody out in Mar-a-Lago".

    I'm just saying there are others, too, who are in the mix - it's not just constantly reaching out to the same three Republican Senators (one of whom isn't traditionally all that moderate).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796
    edited January 2021
    Fabricant looking forward to the happy time Pollyanna channel. Not sure if GB News and Brillo will want to be known as Great Bloody News (bet they still have Gupta and Sikora on though).

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1346395580961058816?s=20
  • Gordon Brittas is going to tell us how Boris is wrong on everything, all too confusing, too much dithering, not spending enough money, test and trace must be fixed, yadda yadda yadda...but never close the borders.

    UK Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer will make a televised statement responding to the prime minister's announcement of a new lockdown for England at 19:00 GMT on BBC1, the party says.

    "Gordon Brittas" is going to stick, isn't it? 😂
    Here is Starmer doing his BLM shtick...from 2 mins...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgZqfLu0ARA&t=8s
  • Fabricant looking forward to the happy time Pollyanna channel. Not sure if GB News and Brillo will want to be known as Great Bloody News (bet they still have Gupta and Sikora on though).

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1346395580961058816?s=20

    In before YouTube give them the ban hammer...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited January 2021
    MrEd said:

    kle4 said:

    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    The Dems are indeed favourite in both races but are still a shade of odds against to do what they need to do - the double. I'm feeling bullish but also nervous. It means a lot this one. I do not want to see Joe tangled up and able to do nothing of much import. He deserves better than that, having saved his country and the wider world from the gruesome prospect of a 2nd Trump term.

    Relax, either way he is going to be constrained, either way there are enough moderates that he can get some things done.
    True enough. It's not a binary between Impasse and Transformation. But this version of the GOP are so bottom drawer I'd rather their influence was minimized. I wouldn't normally be so bothered about US politics, btw, it's a hangover consequence of Trump. Hated him so much and the Republican Party enabled him. So now I hate them too.
    Even if the GOP won both seats tonight the swing votes in the Senate would still be Susan Collins and Mitt Romney, neither exactly close to Trump, Romney even voted to impeach him
    And Murkowski.

    Romney is a slightly odd one. Yes, he loathes Trump. But he's also fairly conservative.

    There are also some understated swing Senators. If you look at people like Jerry Moran and Mike Lee, both are fairly standard conservative Republicans in many ways but they don't actually reliably vote with Trump - they just don't make a big deal of it like Romney. Both also represent quite small states and therefore the President is in more of a position to do them a favour in exchange for getting something over the line - they aren't going to do it on an ultra-liberal bit of legislation, but Biden isn't an ultra-liberal.
    Romney's hostility has a lot to do when he was humiliated after begging Trump for the SoS job. Making Romney out to be somewhat principled is missing the mark.
    Not his finest hour. But the right thing for the wrong reason is still a right thing.
    I know but it was totally embarrassing. I lost a lot of respect for him and, TBH, more so for how his actions after are clearly motivated by the fact he didn't get the SoS job.
    For all his faults Romney was probably the best qualified GOP presidential candidate for decades, just a shame he was nominated in 2012 to face Obama when he was never going to win rather than 2016 to face Hillary when he probably would have won.

    Indeed in voteshare terms at least Romney still got a higher percentage of the vote in 2012 than any Republican candidate has since George W Bush in 2004.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853
    MrEd said:


    I'm interested in @SeaShantyIrish2 view that rural voting has slumped. I was reading an article the other day on Franklin County, which is heavily Republican and rural, which stated that the early voting numbers actually looked decent for the Republicans.

    I'm not betting on it - but these numbers for Franklin compared to the general look like a drop off to me ?

    Statewide general early turnout 57.3%
    FRANKLIN 14,467 8,118 56.1%

    Statewide runoff early turnout 39.3%
    FRANKLIN 16,067 5,422 33.7%

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Not for the first time Shapps is the problem:

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1346444984371847175?s=21

    Someone needs to punch Shapps in the face really, really hard continuously. He and his airline friends (and Boris the idiot) are why we've had such a rubbish time of it with importing cases.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,417
    edited January 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Not for the first time Shapps is the problem:

    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1346444984371847175?s=21

    Someone needs to punch Shapps in the face really, really hard continuously. He and his airline friends (and Boris the idiot) are why we've had such a rubbish time of it with importing cases.
    The revolving airbridge policy is one of the most stupid of the whole pandemic....by the time you know a country has a problem (even one with decent testing), people have already gone and come back from their trips.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    2024: Got Brexit Done

    He will want to keep quiet about that

    https://twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1346074482855858179
    A very quick look at that profile shows they're constantly Tweeting and reTweeting pro-SNP and anti-Westminster messages.

    Did you join the SNP? Or bother to have a look at who was Tweeting before you retweeted it here to us?

    Or did it just scratch your anti-Boris anti-Brexit itch so who cares if its pro-SNP propaganda?
    It's actually consistent with what I have been saying on and off for months - that the notion that all the Scottish fishing industry is pro-Brexit and pro-Tory (as espoused by some on here) is both improbable, a priori given a knowledge of its operations, and untrue.
    I don't think its reasonable to say anything blanket about the Scottish fishing industry, it will be varied in its views just as Scots in general are.

    Given that approximately half of all Scots are pro-independence, pro-SNP then of course some in the fishing industry will be like Scott's latest favourite person to Tweet.

    But just as a third of all Scotts were pro-Brexit of course there will be some pro-Brexit, pro-Tory Scottish fishermen too.

    It simply isn't reasonable to expect them to be all one or the other.
    Oh, absolutely. But some on PB have been preaching the absolute opposite - as have the SCUP and the media. ,
    I think its worth bearing in mind that however disappointed fishermen may be about the Brexit outcome it is still infinitely preferable to re-entry to the EU and CFP. Few in Peterhead will choose to vote for that. So I think you still see a move from SNP to SCUP in the the NE seats (compared to 2016) it just won't be as pronounced as it might otherwise have been.
    Both Peterhead and Fraserburgh, 2 of the the 3 largest fishing ports in Scotland alongside Shetland, are in Bannffshire and Buchan Coast which had an SNP majority of 6,583 in 2016 so I doubt the SCUP had much chance of winning it anyway.

    Perthshire South and Kinrosshire, Edinburgh Pentlands, Angus North and Mearns, Aberdeenshire South and North Kincardine, Moray, Edinburgh Southern and Perthshire North are easier Holyrood constituency target seats for the SCUP in May than Banffshire and Buchan Coast
    Don't agree with that. Banff and Buchan was the one non-SNP seat that saw an increase in majority last year. And the NE is clearly trending, long-term, to the Tories. The Edinburgh seats are going in the opposite direction for demographic reasons. Most likely Tory pick-ups in May are Banff and Buchan Coast, Moray, and Aberdeenshire East.
This discussion has been closed.