Punters losing confidence that there’ll be a deal before the end of the year – politicalbetting.com
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Bullying is tolerated around here now, as we have learned.RobD said:
I thought it was more akin to bullying. But what do I know.CorrectHorseBattery said:
That's an insult to ten year oldsgealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.0 -
Yes. And you can already picture those tabloid headlines.williamglenn said:
The new deadline seems to be Christmas.malcolmg said:I thought brexit surrender was deadline today or UK get reduced to Banana Republic status
"Boris unwraps the turkey!"0 -
I wasn't discussing the role of particular governments, after all we grew more slowly than our neighbours before accession under all governments, and more quickly after accession under both Labour and Conservative.Philip_Thompson said:
Did the UK start growing faster 1973-1979?Foxy said:
The explanation is arguable, but the truth is we grew more slowly than comparable EU economies until we joined, then grew faster than them in recent decades,Philip_Thompson said:
No because you're putting the cart before the horse.Foxy said:
QTWAIY then surely...Philip_Thompson said:
QTWAIN.Foxy said:
So for the last decades we have outgrown our similarly developed European neighbours, whilst in the EU? While prior to EEC entry we did not for several decades, and that is a reason for leaving? 🤔Philip_Thompson said:
I put a medium term measurement threshold as the end of this decade.Peter_the_Punter said:
Lol! In the long term, we are all dead, Philip, but I will rest easier in my grave knowing that my countrymen are enjoying the sunlit uplands which were promised them before the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Well indeed in the short term there'll be more disruption, I don't think anyone reasonable disputes this.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, I can see there are circumstances where it might be smart to let an exchange rate drift down. I'm less sure about the credit rating, but you can correct me if you like.Philip_Thompson said:
Because moving up isn't necessarily a good thing was my point.Peter_the_Punter said:
Just suggesting them as benchmarks, Philip. I recall the exchange rate dropped sharply after the referendum and the drop in credit-rating followed soon after.Philip_Thompson said:
Why?Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
To be honest I'd be happy enough to see the £/Euro exchange rates and our international credit rating return to pre-referendum levels, but I don't think either is very likely for some considerable while.another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
Given our endemic trade deficit the £/€ exchange rate was surely overvalued.
If the £/€ exchange rate goes south but the trade deficit closes then might that not be a good thing?
I'm not saying these are definitive or that other circustances need not be considered, but they're not bad broad-brush indicators. I mean, if Brexit was such a great idea, why didn't they both move up?
I didn't however get the impression that either movement was an indication of clever economic forethought, but rather a sharp intake of breath from the international business community.
In the medium to long term though it's a different matter.
One remarkable statistic is that despite all the protestations of doom about if the UK chose not to join the Euro, or chose to hold an EU referendum, or voted to Leave . . . Is that in both the 2000-2009 and 2010-2019 decades the UK grew faster than the Eurozone per capita.
An interest judgement as to how Brexit goes over the next decade will be to make the same comparison in a decades time. It wouldn't surprise me if the UK over the next decade grows faster again per capita than the Eurozone. If so then I think that it is safe to say the UK has done OK in Brexiting, what do you think?
I appreciate that in my late thirties I'm younger than many other PBers but I really, really hope and expect that the overwhelming majority of PBers won't be dead by the end of this decade.
Edit: As well as noting that the LAST decade saw the UK grow faster than the Eurozone despite the Brexit referendum causing uncertainty here halfway through the decade.
We did in recent decades while getting progressively more estranged and on the way out from Europe.
Prior to EEC entry was of course prior to Thatcher reforming this country. The UK ceased to be the sick man of Europe because of Thatcher not EEC membership.
We aren't leaving because we are growing. We are perhaps growing because we haven't gotten entangled within the sclerotic EU and became estranged instead.
So QTWAIY...😀
Or was it as I suggested Thatcher that turned things around?
Well it's easy to check. Considering the UK was the prior sick man we should have grown faster than Germany and France per capita from 73 to 79 as we caught up with them.
Spoiler: That did NOT happen. The UK grew slower than the original EEC members even post accession to the EEC.
It took a little while and the end of transitional arrangements of accession for the economic benefits of membership to become manifest.
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Spurs really rather poor today, but a strong Leicester performance. Second at Christmas? Yep we will take that 🙂1
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Not to mention one of Mrs Thatcher's magic money trees, North Sea Oil.Foxy said:
I wasn't discussing the role of particular governments, after all we grew more slowly than our neighbours before accession under all governments, and more quickly after accession under both Labour and Conservative.Philip_Thompson said:
Did the UK start growing faster 1973-1979?Foxy said:
The explanation is arguable, but the truth is we grew more slowly than comparable EU economies until we joined, then grew faster than them in recent decades,Philip_Thompson said:
No because you're putting the cart before the horse.Foxy said:
QTWAIY then surely...Philip_Thompson said:
QTWAIN.Foxy said:
So for the last decades we have outgrown our similarly developed European neighbours, whilst in the EU? While prior to EEC entry we did not for several decades, and that is a reason for leaving? 🤔Philip_Thompson said:
I put a medium term measurement threshold as the end of this decade.Peter_the_Punter said:
Lol! In the long term, we are all dead, Philip, but I will rest easier in my grave knowing that my countrymen are enjoying the sunlit uplands which were promised them before the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Well indeed in the short term there'll be more disruption, I don't think anyone reasonable disputes this.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, I can see there are circumstances where it might be smart to let an exchange rate drift down. I'm less sure about the credit rating, but you can correct me if you like.Philip_Thompson said:
Because moving up isn't necessarily a good thing was my point.Peter_the_Punter said:
Just suggesting them as benchmarks, Philip. I recall the exchange rate dropped sharply after the referendum and the drop in credit-rating followed soon after.Philip_Thompson said:
Why?Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
To be honest I'd be happy enough to see the £/Euro exchange rates and our international credit rating return to pre-referendum levels, but I don't think either is very likely for some considerable while.another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
Given our endemic trade deficit the £/€ exchange rate was surely overvalued.
If the £/€ exchange rate goes south but the trade deficit closes then might that not be a good thing?
I'm not saying these are definitive or that other circustances need not be considered, but they're not bad broad-brush indicators. I mean, if Brexit was such a great idea, why didn't they both move up?
I didn't however get the impression that either movement was an indication of clever economic forethought, but rather a sharp intake of breath from the international business community.
In the medium to long term though it's a different matter.
One remarkable statistic is that despite all the protestations of doom about if the UK chose not to join the Euro, or chose to hold an EU referendum, or voted to Leave . . . Is that in both the 2000-2009 and 2010-2019 decades the UK grew faster than the Eurozone per capita.
An interest judgement as to how Brexit goes over the next decade will be to make the same comparison in a decades time. It wouldn't surprise me if the UK over the next decade grows faster again per capita than the Eurozone. If so then I think that it is safe to say the UK has done OK in Brexiting, what do you think?
I appreciate that in my late thirties I'm younger than many other PBers but I really, really hope and expect that the overwhelming majority of PBers won't be dead by the end of this decade.
Edit: As well as noting that the LAST decade saw the UK grow faster than the Eurozone despite the Brexit referendum causing uncertainty here halfway through the decade.
We did in recent decades while getting progressively more estranged and on the way out from Europe.
Prior to EEC entry was of course prior to Thatcher reforming this country. The UK ceased to be the sick man of Europe because of Thatcher not EEC membership.
We aren't leaving because we are growing. We are perhaps growing because we haven't gotten entangled within the sclerotic EU and became estranged instead.
So QTWAIY...😀
Or was it as I suggested Thatcher that turned things around?
Well it's easy to check. Considering the UK was the prior sick man we should have grown faster than Germany and France per capita from 73 to 79 as we caught up with them.
Spoiler: That did NOT happen. The UK grew slower than the original EEC members even post accession to the EEC.
It took a little while and the end of transitional arrangements of accession for the economic benefits of membership to become manifest.4 -
Lol why has this been marked off topic?Foxy said:Spurs really rather poor today, but a strong Leicester performance. Second at Christmas? Yep we will take that 🙂
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Lockdown. Now.2
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https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1340595985597288448
No Rishi you can sod off thanks, I'm going to use it to buy a house since your useless Government won't help0 -
Leicester were excellent today and Spurs had no answerFoxy said:Spurs really rather poor today, but a strong Leicester performance. Second at Christmas? Yep we will take that 🙂
Spurs seem to be losing their sparkle
I thought it was funny that Bale's highlight was when he had to retie his pony tail0 -
So "Oven Ready" that all we get is sprouts...kinabalu said:
Yes. And you can already picture those tabloid headlines.williamglenn said:
The new deadline seems to be Christmas.malcolmg said:I thought brexit surrender was deadline today or UK get reduced to Banana Republic status
"Boris unwraps the turkey!"2 -
"Stuff EU: Boris eats Brussels for dinner"kinabalu said:
Yes. And you can already picture those tabloid headlines.williamglenn said:
The new deadline seems to be Christmas.malcolmg said:I thought brexit surrender was deadline today or UK get reduced to Banana Republic status
"Boris unwraps the turkey!"1 -
Almost double the new cases and more than double the deaths since last Sunday
https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1340689930264203266?s=200 -
Pretty muchstjohn said:
Thanks. I think I follow you. So does it follow thatTimT said:
There is no evidence that I have seen that any of the mutations to date have effected the binding domain of the spike protein. I have not seen any genomic data on the London mutation, so cannot definitively state that to be the case for it.stjohn said:
Tim T. I thought you said the other day that the mutations in the virus we are currently concerned about don't affect the spike protein. But it seems clear that the mutations do affect the spike protein. Maybe only slightly but apparently significantly in terms of speed of spread of the virus. So I probably misread or misunderstood what you said?TimT said:
Actually, the strong correlation in respiratory diseases is an inverse one between transmissibility and morbidity/mortality and there is a well-understood mechanism for this. Sneezing assists in transmissibility of respiratory diseases, and sneezes are induced more in infections of the upper respiratory tract which tend to have lower morbidity/mortality levels than diseases of the lower respiratory tract (i.e. those that bind in the nose and throat, rather than in the bronchi and lungs).YBarddCwsc said:
The mutations are random, but the tendency is for viruses to become less deadly (for which there is plenty of empirical evidence).kjh said:
Agree. The virus has no ability to mutate as more or less deadly. It is entirely random. It is simply a case of how easy it is to survive and multiply. A virus that kills instantly upon infection will not be successful as it won't get a chance to spread, but if a virus was easily transmittable and took time to make the host ill so that it could spread easily and yet be 100% fatal it would be a viable mutation.IshmaelZ said:
Not true. Viruses mutate randomly, and there is no reason to think less lethal mutations are more frequent.YBarddCwsc said:
But, it is a difficult argument to make.ManchesterKurt said:
We have had fewer restrictions, government policy, than many other countries and have amongst the highest death rates as a consequence does not equate to government policy leading to higher infection rates?Richard_Tyndall said:
Since the premise of your comment is completely wrong then the subsequent question is pointless.ManchesterKurt said:Since the government was seemingly willing to allow C-19 to remain in the English population at a much higher level than many other parts of the world, so long as the NHS was not overwhelmed, was it not therefore more likely that more mutations would likely be occurring here in England that other places which tried to keep the infection rates far lower?
In general, mutations are good, as the virus mutates to a less deadly version (it is not in the virus' interests to kill the host).
There are have already been 20,000 mutations recorded.
So, you could argue that allowing plenty of opportunity to mutate is a good thing.
It is always easier to break something to fix it -- and that goes for viruses too. The more it is allowed to mutate, probably the better.
It's about which mutations get selected for. Killing vs not killing the host is not selective when you have a virtually infinite supply of infectable new hosts. So your claim applies to snow leopard viruses but not really to human ones.
Your argument assumes no correlation between transmissibility and onset of the disease.
Can you provide an example of a virus that has mutated to become more infectious AND with a longer onset time?
That is part of what makes COVID so unusual and deadly - SARS-CoV-2 binds with just about every tissue in the human body (as every tissue has the ACE-2 receptor to which the spike protein binds, and every tissue has one of the protease surface enzymes that activate the spike protein (i.e. cleave one of the sub-units so that it opens up that part of the protein thereby allowing the virus to enter the cell and infect it)) thus it is binding in both upper and lower respiratory tracts causing both high transmissibility and high morbidity/mortality.
AND about half of all transmission happens before onset of symptoms.
Can you clarify what you said please and also what are your thoughts on the likelihood of current or future mutations significantly reducing the efficacy of current vaccines? Thanks.
There are many factors, probably many we don't even know about yet, that go into making a virus transmissible. So far, at a biochemical level, I am aware of 3 related to COVID - the affinity for the spike protein to bind to the ACE-2 receptor, the efficacy of the surface proteases in activating the spike protein by cleaving it 'correctly', and some not-yet-understood role for polysaccharides on the cell surface for mediating all of this.
But then other factors relating to its morbidity will also play into transmissibility (I have mentioned infection of the upper respiratory tract causing sneezing). I am sure we do not know all the ways in which the other factors contribute to transmissibility.
In short, the spike protein, while a/the key factor, is not the only factor in transmissibility.
As always, I stand ready to learn from others on the site with better information.
If there have been no mutations to date that have effected the binding domain of the spike protein
and
Current vaccines target the spike protein including the binding domain
then
No mutations to date will have effected current vaccines efficacy?0 -
Indeed. A proper lockdown.CorrectHorseBattery said:Lockdown. Now.
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I'm not saying they had to say it was 1.RobD said:
They'd be accused of scaremongering if they said R was up by 1 but in fact it was only 0.4, and they had evidence showing it was only up by 0.4 (albeit with error bars).solarflare said:
Begs the question then of why they used the 0.4 number in the government briefing, if that's the *lower* end of the estimate. Easier to justify immediate tier 4 if it's actually potentially an even higher increase than that.glw said:The BBC links the NERVTAG notes from 18th December.
It's in the live feed it's a very long link.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55384404
The 0.4 bump to R0 looks like an optimistic assessment.Studies of correlation between R-values and detection of the variant: which suggest an absolute increase in the R-value of between 0.39 to 0.93.
But if it is anywhere near that high then we're surely completely fucked as the virus will be rampant even with lockdown.
I'm saying that if they were saying the value could add 0.4 to R they could easily have qualified that with "at least" or "and it could be even higher" and not misrepresent the NERVTAG minutes.0 -
We have lost control. Lockdown now, stop messing about.0
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Wow. Pretty bad for a Sunday.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It was the only logically consistent conclusion from his statement that the clown is the third best PM of his lifetime, as our SO quickly identified.gealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.1 -
We need a March-style lockdown, all that progress is now lost.0
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That's so good I predict it will be the actual Sun banner.williamglenn said:
"Stuff EU: Boris eats Brussels for dinner"kinabalu said:
Yes. And you can already picture those tabloid headlines.williamglenn said:
The new deadline seems to be Christmas.malcolmg said:I thought brexit surrender was deadline today or UK get reduced to Banana Republic status
"Boris unwraps the turkey!"
Mine and Foxy's were more for the Mirror.0 -
0
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Because it is? 🤔CorrectHorseBattery said:
Lol why has this been marked off topic?Foxy said:Spurs really rather poor today, but a strong Leicester performance. Second at Christmas? Yep we will take that 🙂
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Back in September 2015, we figured out that Alex Salmond lurked here.CorrectHorseBattery said:I wonder if Jezza has an account here
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And a positivity of close to 10% now?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Foxy have you read most of my posts? lolFoxy said:
Because it is? 🤔CorrectHorseBattery said:
Lol why has this been marked off topic?Foxy said:Spurs really rather poor today, but a strong Leicester performance. Second at Christmas? Yep we will take that 🙂
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Awful advance in numbers.Theuniondivvie said:Almost double the new cases and more than double the deaths since last Sunday
https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1340689930264203266?s=200 -
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now0 -
A very good poll for the LDs though.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now1 -
Lib Dems on 10%, are they coming back?0
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I think Rob might have missed Ian's point on the ten year old bit; ie that for Boris to have been the second or third best PM in his life, Phil couldn't be more than 10. You were just throwing an insult around, whether or not you spotted Ian's joke.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Bullying is tolerated around here now, as we have learned.RobD said:
I thought it was more akin to bullying. But what do I know.CorrectHorseBattery said:
That's an insult to ten year oldsgealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.2 -
Usually things being marked Off Topic is down to fat finger syndrome, after all, being on topic rarely lasts longer than the "First" game.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Foxy have you read most of my posts? lolFoxy said:
Because it is? 🤔CorrectHorseBattery said:
Lol why has this been marked off topic?Foxy said:Spurs really rather poor today, but a strong Leicester performance. Second at Christmas? Yep we will take that 🙂
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I didn't spot Ian's joke no, very smart now you've pointed it out.TrèsDifficile said:
I think Rob might have missed Ian's point on the ten year old bit; ie that for Boris to have been the second or third best PM in his life, Phil couldn't be more than 10. You were just throwing an insult around, whether or not you spotted Ian's joke.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Bullying is tolerated around here now, as we have learned.RobD said:
I thought it was more akin to bullying. But what do I know.CorrectHorseBattery said:
That's an insult to ten year oldsgealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.1 -
The Woking Dead?kinabalu said:
I hope that too. But even if I'm dead I'll be watching, and still posting if necessary, e.g. where there is jingoism or facetious reactionary mocking that needs to be called out.Philip_Thompson said:
I put a medium term measurement threshold as the end of this decade.Peter_the_Punter said:
Lol! In the long term, we are all dead, Philip, but I will rest easier in my grave knowing that my countrymen are enjoying the sunlit uplands which were promised them before the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Well indeed in the short term there'll be more disruption, I don't think anyone reasonable disputes this.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, I can see there are circumstances where it might be smart to let an exchange rate drift down. I'm less sure about the credit rating, but you can correct me if you like.Philip_Thompson said:
Because moving up isn't necessarily a good thing was my point.Peter_the_Punter said:
Just suggesting them as benchmarks, Philip. I recall the exchange rate dropped sharply after the referendum and the drop in credit-rating followed soon after.Philip_Thompson said:
Why?Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
To be honest I'd be happy enough to see the £/Euro exchange rates and our international credit rating return to pre-referendum levels, but I don't think either is very likely for some considerable while.another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
Given our endemic trade deficit the £/€ exchange rate was surely overvalued.
If the £/€ exchange rate goes south but the trade deficit closes then might that not be a good thing?
I'm not saying these are definitive or that other circustances need not be considered, but they're not bad broad-brush indicators. I mean, if Brexit was such a great idea, why didn't they both move up?
I didn't however get the impression that either movement was an indication of clever economic forethought, but rather a sharp intake of breath from the international business community.
In the medium to long term though it's a different matter.
One remarkable statistic is that despite all the protestations of doom about if the UK chose not to join the Euro, or chose to hold an EU referendum, or voted to Leave . . . Is that in both the 2000-2009 and 2010-2019 decades the UK grew faster than the Eurozone per capita.
An interest judgement as to how Brexit goes over the next decade will be to make the same comparison in a decades time. It wouldn't surprise me if the UK over the next decade grows faster again per capita than the Eurozone. If so then I think that it is safe to say the UK has done OK in Brexiting, what do you think?
I appreciate that in my late thirties I'm younger than many other PBers but I really, really hope and expect that the overwhelming majority of PBers won't be dead by the end of this decade.
Edit: As well as noting that the LAST decade saw the UK grow faster than the Eurozone despite the Brexit referendum causing uncertainty here halfway through the decade.1 -
LOLs, CHB. If this is your first house-buying venture, I guess you haven't worked out what a spending spree a house purchase will launch. And you'll be adding both Stamp duty and VAT to the Exchequer.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1340595985597288448
No Rishi you can sod off thanks, I'm going to use it to buy a house since your useless Government won't help2 -
As we expect . Tories lies. Will be like the 40 new hospitals that will never be built.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Are you sure that is what the paper shows? Although the target is 20,000 more police officers, we are not there yet, with the report showing a record increase of 6,000. Boris won in 2019 by running on Labour's 2017 platform, when Jeremy Corbyn had criticised Theresa May for axing 20,000 coppers, and that is why Boris's target is 20,000.DavidL said:
Sigh https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/905169/police-workforce-mar20-hosb2020.pdf#:~:text=• 129,110 full-time equivalent (FTE) officers were in,the largest year on year change since 2003/04.RochdalePioneers said:
Indeed. The Tories have absolutely gutted the police of resources. The same MPs who voted again and again and again to cut funding and thus officer numbers then whine about the lack of officers.Richard_Tyndall said:
How on earth do you police this though. That is the problem with trying to make this law. Everyone knows it is unenforceable.nichomar said:Sterile debate today, defenders defending, attackers trying to pin blame, no suggestions as to a better way forward just who may have said what, when.
What’s needed is to police the restrictions seriously, none of this prosecution is a last resort
Ensure the rollout of the vaccine is in the hands of logistics experts
Start investigating the claims of fraud from all sides, government, claimants etc
The UK government looks like a soft pushover waiting to be taken advantage of by its own citizens.
A story to illustrate.
Just over a year ago on November 6th 2019 a good friend of mine died. He had been suffering from lung cancer but his death was sudden due to a pulmonary haemorrhage whilst he was at home alone. A mutual friend had turned up but could not get in so called myself and also the police. After identifying my friend I spent a couple of hours with the policeman helping him with details and waiting for the undertakers to arrive. In that time it turned out that the total police force present in Newark that Tuesday evening was the copper I was talking to, one other who was investigating an assault in one of the villages and a desk sergeant. When I expressed surprise at how few police were on duty he said that this was pretty good for the town and that Nottingham that evening had 15 officers on duty - for a city of some 330,000 people.
Policing in this country is by consent. It has to be because there simply isn't the power to do it any other way on a day to day basis. The idea we can police covid restrictions in any meaningful manner when so many do not believe in them is completely unrealistic.
Number of officers in England and Wales increased by 20k from June 19 to June 20.0 -
Pretty predictable though - Government struggling, Opposition far from fully rehabilitated. Protest vote, isn't it?RobD said:
A very good poll for the LDs though.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now0 -
I won't be buying a house for years, I should have said save not buy.TimT said:
LOLs, CHB. If this is your first house-buying venture, I guess you haven't worked out what a spending spree a house purchase will launch. And you'll be adding both Stamp duty and VAT to the Exchequer.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1340595985597288448
No Rishi you can sod off thanks, I'm going to use it to buy a house since your useless Government won't help0 -
Boris Johnson is facing mounting anger from senior Conservative MPs after announcing new lockdown restrictions for Christmas which may have to remain in place for months to combat a new strain of coronavirus.
The PM has been accused of deliberately delaying a decision to place millions of people in London and the south-east under the new tier 4 measures to avoid scrutiny from angry backbench Tory MPs.
The government has been aware of a new strain of the disease since September but resisted pleas from scientists and doctors for further lockdown measures until six days before Christmas.
Sir Charles Walker, the vice-chairman of the Tory backbench 1922 Committee, said he believed ministers knew before Friday that they would be cancelling Christmas. “I suspect the government knew they were going to cancel Christmas on Wednesday and Thursday when they were still telling the House of Commons they planned to press ahead,” he told BBC Radio 4’s The World This Weekend.
Another backbencher told the Guardian that MPs using a WhatsApp group were “seething” at the prime minister’s last-minute decision which has left thousands of people’s plans in chaos. “This is a failure of leadership for which we may never be forgiven. Many people were blaming previous cock-ups on Dominic Cummings. Now, it is all on the PM,” the MP said.0 -
Bozo might as well cancel Christmas for the rest of the country now. Better than waiting until Thursday when the turkeys are already being defrosted.
The rest of Europe should make the most of any head start they might have and do likewise.
And all close our borders to South Africa too.1 -
Lib Dems would actually gain a seat according to Electoral Calculus0
-
If Tory MPs are pissed off they can hold a leadership challenge0
-
Disaster.Theuniondivvie said:Almost double the new cases and more than double the deaths since last Sunday
https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1340689930264203266?s=20
I just listened to Maajid Nawaz’s LBC show
He was comparing the t4 lockdown to being in solitary confinement in an Egyptian prison. Like, I get that that is his claim to fame, and I’ll still give him the time of day when he discusses islamism etc, but seriously?!0 -
Yes Thatcher squandered Scotland's money to prop up unemployment and rebuild London. Short memories of who funded it all.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Not to mention one of Mrs Thatcher's magic money trees, North Sea Oil.Foxy said:
I wasn't discussing the role of particular governments, after all we grew more slowly than our neighbours before accession under all governments, and more quickly after accession under both Labour and Conservative.Philip_Thompson said:
Did the UK start growing faster 1973-1979?Foxy said:
The explanation is arguable, but the truth is we grew more slowly than comparable EU economies until we joined, then grew faster than them in recent decades,Philip_Thompson said:
No because you're putting the cart before the horse.Foxy said:
QTWAIY then surely...Philip_Thompson said:
QTWAIN.Foxy said:
So for the last decades we have outgrown our similarly developed European neighbours, whilst in the EU? While prior to EEC entry we did not for several decades, and that is a reason for leaving? 🤔Philip_Thompson said:
I put a medium term measurement threshold as the end of this decade.Peter_the_Punter said:
Lol! In the long term, we are all dead, Philip, but I will rest easier in my grave knowing that my countrymen are enjoying the sunlit uplands which were promised them before the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Well indeed in the short term there'll be more disruption, I don't think anyone reasonable disputes this.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, I can see there are circumstances where it might be smart to let an exchange rate drift down. I'm less sure about the credit rating, but you can correct me if you like.Philip_Thompson said:
Because moving up isn't necessarily a good thing was my point.Peter_the_Punter said:
Just suggesting them as benchmarks, Philip. I recall the exchange rate dropped sharply after the referendum and the drop in credit-rating followed soon after.Philip_Thompson said:
Why?Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
To be honest I'd be happy enough to see the £/Euro exchange rates and our international credit rating return to pre-referendum levels, but I don't think either is very likely for some considerable while.another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
Given our endemic trade deficit the £/€ exchange rate was surely overvalued.
If the £/€ exchange rate goes south but the trade deficit closes then might that not be a good thing?
I'm not saying these are definitive or that other circustances need not be considered, but they're not bad broad-brush indicators. I mean, if Brexit was such a great idea, why didn't they both move up?
I didn't however get the impression that either movement was an indication of clever economic forethought, but rather a sharp intake of breath from the international business community.
In the medium to long term though it's a different matter.
One remarkable statistic is that despite all the protestations of doom about if the UK chose not to join the Euro, or chose to hold an EU referendum, or voted to Leave . . . Is that in both the 2000-2009 and 2010-2019 decades the UK grew faster than the Eurozone per capita.
An interest judgement as to how Brexit goes over the next decade will be to make the same comparison in a decades time. It wouldn't surprise me if the UK over the next decade grows faster again per capita than the Eurozone. If so then I think that it is safe to say the UK has done OK in Brexiting, what do you think?
I appreciate that in my late thirties I'm younger than many other PBers but I really, really hope and expect that the overwhelming majority of PBers won't be dead by the end of this decade.
Edit: As well as noting that the LAST decade saw the UK grow faster than the Eurozone despite the Brexit referendum causing uncertainty here halfway through the decade.
We did in recent decades while getting progressively more estranged and on the way out from Europe.
Prior to EEC entry was of course prior to Thatcher reforming this country. The UK ceased to be the sick man of Europe because of Thatcher not EEC membership.
We aren't leaving because we are growing. We are perhaps growing because we haven't gotten entangled within the sclerotic EU and became estranged instead.
So QTWAIY...😀
Or was it as I suggested Thatcher that turned things around?
Well it's easy to check. Considering the UK was the prior sick man we should have grown faster than Germany and France per capita from 73 to 79 as we caught up with them.
Spoiler: That did NOT happen. The UK grew slower than the original EEC members even post accession to the EEC.
It took a little while and the end of transitional arrangements of accession for the economic benefits of membership to become manifest.0 -
Can somebody update me on Brexit please0
-
I suspect they are in the minority in the party, and they are definitely in the minority in the country.CorrectHorseBattery said:If Tory MPs are pissed off they can hold a leadership challenge
0 -
These Covid numbers do look scary (!) now. So much riding on the vaccine rollout. Fingers and all else crossed.
On a lighter note, it’s SPOTY tonight and I’m looking forward to it. I’m pleased Ronnie O’Sullivan is at long last nominated. Unlikely to win but I really hope he makes the frame.
45 years old, he’s been entertaining us on the baize for nigh on 30 years. He’s a sporting genius of the sort that comes along once in a blue moon. Watching him in full flow is food for the soul. Snooker as art form and therapy. It feels elevated and goes beyond the facts and figures of humdrum sporting excellence, as evidenced by titles and world rankings, although he ticks that box too. Holds most of the records, including one you know for a fact will never be broken even if snooker is played right up to and including the heat death of the universe. I refer of course to his 147 maximum break in 5 minutes 20 seconds at the Crucible in 1997. The fastest ever. I’m sure everybody has seen it at least once.
He scores on the “P” aspect too imo. He can come over as a dick – often does – but he is a genuinely interesting and original person to listen to. The self-absorption is not of the malign variety and his mental health issues, which he talks of, perhaps arising from his family background, make his achievements all the greater.
C’mon Ronnie!0 -
Sometimes there's a very good reason why backbenchers are backbenchers...IanB2 said:Boris Johnson is facing mounting anger from senior Conservative MPs after announcing new lockdown restrictions for Christmas which may have to remain in place for months to combat a new strain of coronavirus.
The PM has been accused of deliberately delaying a decision to place millions of people in London and the south-east under the new tier 4 measures to avoid scrutiny from angry backbench Tory MPs.
The government has been aware of a new strain of the disease since September but resisted pleas from scientists and doctors for further lockdown measures until six days before Christmas.
Sir Charles Walker, the vice-chairman of the Tory backbench 1922 Committee, said he believed ministers knew before Friday that they would be cancelling Christmas. “I suspect the government knew they were going to cancel Christmas on Wednesday and Thursday when they were still telling the House of Commons they planned to press ahead,” he told BBC Radio 4’s The World This Weekend.
Another backbencher told the Guardian that MPs using a WhatsApp group were “seething” at the prime minister’s last-minute decision which has left thousands of people’s plans in chaos. “This is a failure of leadership for which we may never be forgiven. Many people were blaming previous cock-ups on Dominic Cummings. Now, it is all on the PM,” the MP said.2 -
Surveyor's fees, mortgage fee, estate agent's fee generated from the seller, Pickfords or some such movers.TimT said:
LOLs, CHB. If this is your first house-buying venture, I guess you haven't worked out what a spending spree a house purchase will launch. And you'll be adding both Stamp duty and VAT to the Exchequer.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1340595985597288448
No Rishi you can sod off thanks, I'm going to use it to buy a house since your useless Government won't help
Plenty of money for Rishi when you buy a house !0 -
Hattip to SO, really.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I didn't spot Ian's joke no, very smart now you've pointed it out.TrèsDifficile said:
I think Rob might have missed Ian's point on the ten year old bit; ie that for Boris to have been the second or third best PM in his life, Phil couldn't be more than 10. You were just throwing an insult around, whether or not you spotted Ian's joke.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Bullying is tolerated around here now, as we have learned.RobD said:
I thought it was more akin to bullying. But what do I know.CorrectHorseBattery said:
That's an insult to ten year oldsgealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.
3 -
Horse give it a rest message received loud and clear you’ll just be regarded as another broken record if you persist.0
-
Hey CHB.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now
Not so boring for the LDs.
A new suit, a tie, and Smithson brushes up well.1 -
That's absurd. You can still go to work, and to get groceries etc. In some places you had to get permits to go outside, and you only had a limited number per week.ping said:
Disaster.Theuniondivvie said:Almost double the new cases and more than double the deaths since last Sunday
https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1340689930264203266?s=20
I just listened to Maajid Nawaz’s LBC show
He was comparing the t4 lockdown to being in solitary confinement in an Egyptian prison. Like, I get that that is his claim to fame, and I’ll still give him the time of day when he discusses islamism etc, but seriously?!0 -
At some point I wonder if we will just be in Tier 4 for much of the first half of 2021 but you'll be allowed out more if you have had a vaccine0
-
IanB2 said:
It was the only logically consistent conclusion from his statement that the clown is the third best PM of his lifetime, as our SO quickly identified.gealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.
He was imprudent enough to reveal his age here recently. I will not be cad enough to repeat it but he certainly was not around to suffer an alcoholic Churchill nor the humiliation of Eden over Suez.IanB2 said:
It was the only logically consistent conclusion from his statement that the clown is the third best PM of his lifetime, as our SO quickly identified.gealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.
Time Mike introduced an age limit on the Site.0 -
Hi mate, didn't spot the LD surge initially. But yes a good poll for all progressives/anti-Tories.Omnium said:
Hey CHB.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now
Not so boring for the LDs.
A new suit, a tie, and Smithson brushes up well.0 -
Well shit in a bag and punch it. That's a mere +17,481 increase on last Sunday. A doubling is a week!CarlottaVance said:0 -
A warning to Starmer not to piss off Remainers when carrying favour with the Leavers.CorrectHorseBattery said:Lib Dems on 10%, are they coming back?
0 -
Is it the highest ever Sunday total?Foxy said:
Wow. Pretty bad for a Sunday.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I already am...nichomar said:Horse give it a rest message received loud and clear you’ll just be regarded as another broken record if you persist.
0 -
Makes me respect boris just a little bit more for outwitting the idiots on his own backbenchesIanB2 said:Boris Johnson is facing mounting anger from senior Conservative MPs after announcing new lockdown restrictions for Christmas which may have to remain in place for months to combat a new strain of coronavirus.
The PM has been accused of deliberately delaying a decision to place millions of people in London and the south-east under the new tier 4 measures to avoid scrutiny from angry backbench Tory MPs.
The government has been aware of a new strain of the disease since September but resisted pleas from scientists and doctors for further lockdown measures until six days before Christmas.
Sir Charles Walker, the vice-chairman of the Tory backbench 1922 Committee, said he believed ministers knew before Friday that they would be cancelling Christmas. “I suspect the government knew they were going to cancel Christmas on Wednesday and Thursday when they were still telling the House of Commons they planned to press ahead,” he told BBC Radio 4’s The World This Weekend.
Another backbencher told the Guardian that MPs using a WhatsApp group were “seething” at the prime minister’s last-minute decision which has left thousands of people’s plans in chaos. “This is a failure of leadership for which we may never be forgiven. Many people were blaming previous cock-ups on Dominic Cummings. Now, it is all on the PM,” the MP said.
0 -
A bad day for Leeds...0
-
As it's the highest ever total, I am going to guess yes.bigjohnowls said:
Is it the highest ever Sunday total?Foxy said:
Wow. Pretty bad for a Sunday.CarlottaVance said:
1 -
Grrr - if original that is irritatingly close to brilliant.BluestBlue said:
The Woking Dead?kinabalu said:
I hope that too. But even if I'm dead I'll be watching, and still posting if necessary, e.g. where there is jingoism or facetious reactionary mocking that needs to be called out.Philip_Thompson said:
I put a medium term measurement threshold as the end of this decade.Peter_the_Punter said:
Lol! In the long term, we are all dead, Philip, but I will rest easier in my grave knowing that my countrymen are enjoying the sunlit uplands which were promised them before the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Well indeed in the short term there'll be more disruption, I don't think anyone reasonable disputes this.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, I can see there are circumstances where it might be smart to let an exchange rate drift down. I'm less sure about the credit rating, but you can correct me if you like.Philip_Thompson said:
Because moving up isn't necessarily a good thing was my point.Peter_the_Punter said:
Just suggesting them as benchmarks, Philip. I recall the exchange rate dropped sharply after the referendum and the drop in credit-rating followed soon after.Philip_Thompson said:
Why?Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
To be honest I'd be happy enough to see the £/Euro exchange rates and our international credit rating return to pre-referendum levels, but I don't think either is very likely for some considerable while.another_richard said:
It will be interesting to see.Peter_the_Punter said:another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
So far better out than in, AR.another_richard said:
Given that the UK has been a net financial contributor and has had a large and continuous trade deficit with EU countries I'm not sure that it has been successful for the UK.Peter_the_Punter said:MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
Not a lot, mate, but then a nation that votes itself out of the world's largest and most successful free trade association isn't in much of a position to lecture others about twattishness.MarqueeMark said:Well, if the EU insists on being twattish......what can we do?
And that's likely more the fault of the UK than anyone else.
Believe me I will be only too pleased to acknowledge this if and when evidence surfaces. I'd like to see us make a decent effort of capitalising on our sovereignity though if only so that we will know unambigously before long just how successful the enterprise has been, or not, as the case may be.
On a theoretical/academic view the implementation of an independent trade policy can be judged fairly now that the incompetent Fox has been removed.
Given our endemic trade deficit the £/€ exchange rate was surely overvalued.
If the £/€ exchange rate goes south but the trade deficit closes then might that not be a good thing?
I'm not saying these are definitive or that other circustances need not be considered, but they're not bad broad-brush indicators. I mean, if Brexit was such a great idea, why didn't they both move up?
I didn't however get the impression that either movement was an indication of clever economic forethought, but rather a sharp intake of breath from the international business community.
In the medium to long term though it's a different matter.
One remarkable statistic is that despite all the protestations of doom about if the UK chose not to join the Euro, or chose to hold an EU referendum, or voted to Leave . . . Is that in both the 2000-2009 and 2010-2019 decades the UK grew faster than the Eurozone per capita.
An interest judgement as to how Brexit goes over the next decade will be to make the same comparison in a decades time. It wouldn't surprise me if the UK over the next decade grows faster again per capita than the Eurozone. If so then I think that it is safe to say the UK has done OK in Brexiting, what do you think?
I appreciate that in my late thirties I'm younger than many other PBers but I really, really hope and expect that the overwhelming majority of PBers won't be dead by the end of this decade.
Edit: As well as noting that the LAST decade saw the UK grow faster than the Eurozone despite the Brexit referendum causing uncertainty here halfway through the decade.2 -
10% means we are Winning Here*CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now
*wherever here is2 -
0
-
Uxbridge?CorrectHorseBattery said:Lib Dems would actually gain a seat according to Electoral Calculus
0 -
Interesting. Maybe Davey's having a slightly better start than many of us thought. I wonder if that's some combination of angry remainers and Green/Left inclined Labour switchers.Omnium said:
Hey CHB.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now
Not so boring for the LDs.
A new suit, a tie, and Smithson brushes up well.0 -
Upper or under?Peter_the_Punter said:IanB2 said:
It was the only logically consistent conclusion from his statement that the clown is the third best PM of his lifetime, as our SO quickly identified.gealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.
He was imprudent enough to reveal his age here recently. I will not be cad enough to repeat it but he certainly was not around to suffer an alcoholic Churchill nor the humiliation of Eden over Suez.IanB2 said:
It was the only logically consistent conclusion from his statement that the clown is the third best PM of his lifetime, as our SO quickly identified.gealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.
Time Mike introduced an age limit on the Site.0 -
Labour needs to get it though, we need the Lib Dems being stronger.0
-
Another appallingly low bar for the clown.ping said:
Makes me respect boris just a little bit more for outwitting the idiots on his own backbenchesIanB2 said:Boris Johnson is facing mounting anger from senior Conservative MPs after announcing new lockdown restrictions for Christmas which may have to remain in place for months to combat a new strain of coronavirus.
The PM has been accused of deliberately delaying a decision to place millions of people in London and the south-east under the new tier 4 measures to avoid scrutiny from angry backbench Tory MPs.
The government has been aware of a new strain of the disease since September but resisted pleas from scientists and doctors for further lockdown measures until six days before Christmas.
Sir Charles Walker, the vice-chairman of the Tory backbench 1922 Committee, said he believed ministers knew before Friday that they would be cancelling Christmas. “I suspect the government knew they were going to cancel Christmas on Wednesday and Thursday when they were still telling the House of Commons they planned to press ahead,” he told BBC Radio 4’s The World This Weekend.
Another backbencher told the Guardian that MPs using a WhatsApp group were “seething” at the prime minister’s last-minute decision which has left thousands of people’s plans in chaos. “This is a failure of leadership for which we may never be forgiven. Many people were blaming previous cock-ups on Dominic Cummings. Now, it is all on the PM,” the MP said.1 -
Ireland, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands taking back control of their borders, is it a crisis?
https://twitter.com/pitchblacksteed/status/1340639016744579072/photo/10 -
Numbers looks like a complete disaster zone in London, SE and East. Not long until it spreads to the rest of the country. The government needs to answer serious questions about how they will handle this and speeding up the vaccine.0
-
I think we are headed for March-style lockdown to be honest.0
-
934 new cases and 3 deaths for Scotland.CarlottaVance said:0 -
The only solution is a proper lockdown, evidently the Tiers have failed.MaxPB said:Numbers looks like a complete disaster zone in London, SE and East. Not long until it spreads to the rest of the country. The government needs to answer serious questions about how they will handle this and speeding up the vaccine.
0 -
Its Groundhog Day.CorrectHorseBattery said:Can somebody update me on Brexit please
"Discussions continue, but significant differences persist"
Repeat daily until Dec 31st.3 -
Careful what you wish for.CorrectHorseBattery said:Labour needs to get it though, we need the Lib Dems being stronger.
Lots of people, will vote for the most Progressive party at a GE
Its by no means certain on the current path that will be LAB.0 -
Yes this new strain means a new strategy. Though I would maintain that lockdown isn't a solution, it's still just a sticking plaster. The solution is a vaccine or failing that a properly functioning isolation system. Neither of which Labour are scrutinising properly.CorrectHorseBattery said:
The only solution is a proper lockdown, evidently the Tiers have failed.MaxPB said:Numbers looks like a complete disaster zone in London, SE and East. Not long until it spreads to the rest of the country. The government needs to answer serious questions about how they will handle this and speeding up the vaccine.
1 -
You weren't the only one with that problem.Crabbie said:
I would have been fine if Betfair had made it clear when they were going settle. Ideally making it clear before the election, but if post election they had said something like: “unusually, one candidate hasn’t conceded. We’ll therefore be settling it on 2nd December when the ECV are in” I’d have been ok with that.Peter_the_Punter said:isam said:
Betfair lets people back horses that have fallen, and died, to win the race, & players that have been substituted to score the first goal in football matches. Those things actually cannot happen. Trump could have still been President, albeit he shouldn't be paid as a winner as per Betfair's rules, so wrong as this seems/is, it is not as bad as things that have been going on in Betfair markets for yearsStocky said:
Yes, I`d like to see the full thing too @Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter said:
I'd really like to check whether Rentoul has been cribbing from PB, Alistair Meekes and/or myself, but the full article is behind a paywall. Would it be possible for someone to send me a copy?rottenborough said:
arklebar@gmail.com
Thanks
Particularly, did Rentoul allude to any money laundering aspects?
Isn't the time frame relevant here, Isam? We are talking some five weeks or so in the case of the so-called Next President market. In that time Betfair received a huge volume of queries and complaints to which their response was a couple of confusing and badly worded PR statements. Not sure your football and horseracing comparisons quite match that.isam said:
Betfair lets people back horses that have fallen, and died, to win the race, & players that have been substituted to score the first goal in football matches. Those things actually cannot happen. Trump could have still been President, albeit he shouldn't be paid as a winner as per Betfair's rules, so wrong as this seems/is, it is not as bad as things that have been going on in Betfair markets for yearsStocky said:
Yes, I`d like to see the full thing too @Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter said:
I'd really like to check whether Rentoul has been cribbing from PB, Alistair Meekes and/or myself, but the full article is behind a paywall. Would it be possible for someone to send me a copy?rottenborough said:
arklebar@gmail.com
Thanks
Particularly, did Rentoul allude to any money laundering aspects?
Also, they do not change the rules after the event in those sports, or any other that I know of. It was the moving of the goalposts that was at the heart of most of the criticism.
My problem was that I was heavily green on Betfair, but red on Spin. I’d have been heavily down if the Betfair market had been voided but Spin settled.
Of course Betfair could have done as you indicated but that would have been to admit an error and that doesn't seem to be in their DNA.
Did you complain, formally? Did you try IBAS or the Gambling Commission?0 -
I can't imagine many of the disgruntled Left moving to Ed Davey's LDs. The other types, perhaps.WhisperingOracle said:
Interesting. Maybe Davey's having a slightly better start than many of us thought. I wonder if that's some combination of angry remainers and Green/Left inclined Labour switchers.Omnium said:
Hey CHB.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now
Not so boring for the LDs.
A new suit, a tie, and Smithson brushes up well.0 -
I guess UK Gov hope (hoped?) we can just carry on until enough people have been vaccinated. Sadly I don't think we've earned enough time0
-
PatheticFoxy said:
Its Groundhog Day.CorrectHorseBattery said:Can somebody update me on Brexit please
"Discussions continue, but significant differences persist"
Repeat daily until Dec 31st.0 -
Maybe both - remove all those of working age?Carnyx said:
Upper or under?Peter_the_Punter said:IanB2 said:
It was the only logically consistent conclusion from his statement that the clown is the third best PM of his lifetime, as our SO quickly identified.gealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.
He was imprudent enough to reveal his age here recently. I will not be cad enough to repeat it but he certainly was not around to suffer an alcoholic Churchill nor the humiliation of Eden over Suez.IanB2 said:
It was the only logically consistent conclusion from his statement that the clown is the third best PM of his lifetime, as our SO quickly identified.gealbhan said:
Is this the new thing now then, referring to Philip as the ten year old?IanB2 said:
Credit where it’s due, he sure knows some long words for a ten year old.OllyT said:
I doubt even you believe the rubbish you are spouting. Nobody else does, that's for surePhilip_Thompson said:
The second or third best PM this country has had in my lifetime.IanB2 said:
They got a grown up. Look what we got.Philip_Thompson said:
Not in England.IanB2 said:
That's one bar the UK Tories can beat, with 56.4%HYUFD said:
Yet still 55% of Scots did not vote SNP at the general election last yearmalcolmg said:FPT
SouthamObserver said:
» show previous quotes
I doubt that the pressure for independence would be as great in Scotland if there were a Labour-led government in Westminster.
I think you are wrong, they are seen as Tory lites nowadays, almost as Tory as the Tories and as big liars as Tories. Both are seen as cheeks of the same arse.
In England the Tories got more vote share than the SNP got in Scotland.
And probably the third most transformative PM for this country since WWII.
Time Mike introduced an age limit on the Site.0 -
For deaths i meantRobD said:
As it's the highest ever total, I am going to guess yes.bigjohnowls said:
Is it the highest ever Sunday total?Foxy said:
Wow. Pretty bad for a Sunday.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It’s a function of not being in the nrws he can’t be blamed and therefore could provide an untainted solution, not a policy thing, just lie lowkinabalu said:
I can't imagine many of the disgruntled Left moving to Ed Davey's LDs. The other types, perhaps.WhisperingOracle said:
Interesting. Maybe Davey's having a slightly better start than many of us thought. I wonder if that's some combination of angry remainers and Green/Left inclined Labour switchers.Omnium said:
Hey CHB.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now
Not so boring for the LDs.
A new suit, a tie, and Smithson brushes up well.1 -
If 52% of the public had voted for a nazi party would you have just gone along with it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
There are many of us who support Brexit because it was democratically voted for but who reject the absurdities of the ERGkinabalu said:
Yes, yes. But we were talking about "a part of you". You do have some Redwood in there. It emits too brightly for this not to be the case.Philip_Thompson said:
I am not a Brexit Headbanger.kinabalu said:
I bet they do. But tbf there's a part of you - the Redwood part - that would in any case enjoy this particular Not Happening Event happening regardless of its undoubtedly devastating impact on my cred. NO DEAL = PROPER LEAVE. If I were a Brexit Headbanger it's what I would want.Philip_Thompson said:
While I feel that a deal is more likely than not there is a part of me that would enjoy no deal just to see you eating some humble pie.kinabalu said:My take is unchanged. Talk of no deal "from UK sources" can be dismissed. It's hype. Moving from frictionless trade to WTO terms is a plan Z for the EU and is not an option at all for the UK. It will not be happening. Things might not get finished and ratified in time, in which case extension or implementation period, but there will be a deal. Intuition says so. Common sense says so. The behavioural evidence, past and present, says so. If only I could find a way to transmit my certainty on this into the heads of the millions of people who are understandably worrying about it. I'd love to be able to perform such a public service. Give something back.
I wonder if the Germans have a word for that too?
If anything I am a Democracy Headbanger.
Democracy must be respected even if, perhaps especially if, the people vote for what you consider to be the Wrong Thing (TM).
In 2016 had we voted to Remain then I would have been OK with that. We did not though. We voted to Take Back Control of our laws and sovereignty and I want that respected.
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1340171550620868614
The fact that a majority support something does not place an obligation on those who oppose it on principle to simply fall into line. If you believe Brexit is a monumental error why on earth would you accept it because 52% voted for it?3 -
Ah, sorry. I think it is also likely the highest, although not highest day on record. Anyway, deaths will be lagging quite a bit behind, so we won't see this surge for a few weeks yet.bigjohnowls said:
For deaths i meantRobD said:
As it's the highest ever total, I am going to guess yes.bigjohnowls said:
Is it the highest ever Sunday total?Foxy said:
Wow. Pretty bad for a Sunday.CarlottaVance said:0 -
For me Davey is saying all the right things and the handful of LD MPs are very active in parliament. Its just difficult to get heard when you have been reduced to a rump.WhisperingOracle said:
Interesting. Maybe Davey's having a slightly better start than many of us thought. I wonder if that's some combination of angry remainers and Green/Left inclined Labour switchers.Omnium said:
Hey CHB.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now
Not so boring for the LDs.
A new suit, a tie, and Smithson brushes up well.1 -
Hurray a break in the clouds. Great view of Jupiter and Saturn, plus the dark side of the moon visible in earthshine.
Hopefully there will be clear skies tomorrow.4 -
You wouldn't think so, would you, but in my experience the LD's still have a small residual anti-establishment vote even after the coalition. The sort of people who wouldn't be happy if Starmer waves through the government's new, very anti-liberal proposals to let the security services commit almost any sort of crime, for instance. What a far cry that is from the sort of "anti- big state authoritarianism" the Tories briefly professed to believe in in the New Labour ID cards era.kinabalu said:
I can't imagine many of the disgruntled Left moving to Ed Davey's LDs. The other types, perhaps.WhisperingOracle said:
Interesting. Maybe Davey's having a slightly better start than many of us thought. I wonder if that's some combination of angry remainers and Green/Left inclined Labour switchers.Omnium said:
Hey CHB.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now
Not so boring for the LDs.
A new suit, a tie, and Smithson brushes up well.1 -
Vote Boring not an attractive message IMOFoxy said:
A warning to Starmer not to piss off Remainers when carrying favour with the Leavers.CorrectHorseBattery said:Lib Dems on 10%, are they coming back?
0 -
It's happened.CorrectHorseBattery said:Can somebody update me on Brexit please
4 -
OGH is perhaps the greatest LD force left. Good sense being the other one.WhisperingOracle said:
Interesting. Maybe Davey's having a slightly better start than many of us thought. I wonder if that's some combination of angry remainers and Green/Left inclined Labour switchers.Omnium said:
Hey CHB.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1340694495172714496
Another boring poll.
Both parties consistently in the 30s now
Not so boring for the LDs.
A new suit, a tie, and Smithson brushes up well.
The LDs main problem is that they are so far left economically.
1 -
Mr. Owls, not in isolation, but Vote Boring Competence looks very attractive when the alternative is an intellectually vacant buffoon.2
-
No but I will. It’s on my list of things to do over Christmas.Peter_the_Punter said:
You weren't the only one with that problem.Crabbie said:
I would have been fine if Betfair had made it clear when they were going settle. Ideally making it clear before the election, but if post election they had said something like: “unusually, one candidate hasn’t conceded. We’ll therefore be settling it on 2nd December when the ECV are in” I’d have been ok with that.Peter_the_Punter said:isam said:
Betfair lets people back horses that have fallen, and died, to win the race, & players that have been substituted to score the first goal in football matches. Those things actually cannot happen. Trump could have still been President, albeit he shouldn't be paid as a winner as per Betfair's rules, so wrong as this seems/is, it is not as bad as things that have been going on in Betfair markets for yearsStocky said:
Yes, I`d like to see the full thing too @Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter said:
I'd really like to check whether Rentoul has been cribbing from PB, Alistair Meekes and/or myself, but the full article is behind a paywall. Would it be possible for someone to send me a copy?rottenborough said:
arklebar@gmail.com
Thanks
Particularly, did Rentoul allude to any money laundering aspects?
Isn't the time frame relevant here, Isam? We are talking some five weeks or so in the case of the so-called Next President market. In that time Betfair received a huge volume of queries and complaints to which their response was a couple of confusing and badly worded PR statements. Not sure your football and horseracing comparisons quite match that.isam said:
Betfair lets people back horses that have fallen, and died, to win the race, & players that have been substituted to score the first goal in football matches. Those things actually cannot happen. Trump could have still been President, albeit he shouldn't be paid as a winner as per Betfair's rules, so wrong as this seems/is, it is not as bad as things that have been going on in Betfair markets for yearsStocky said:
Yes, I`d like to see the full thing too @Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter said:
I'd really like to check whether Rentoul has been cribbing from PB, Alistair Meekes and/or myself, but the full article is behind a paywall. Would it be possible for someone to send me a copy?rottenborough said:
arklebar@gmail.com
Thanks
Particularly, did Rentoul allude to any money laundering aspects?
Also, they do not change the rules after the event in those sports, or any other that I know of. It was the moving of the goalposts that was at the heart of most of the criticism.
My problem was that I was heavily green on Betfair, but red on Spin. I’d have been heavily down if the Betfair market had been voided but Spin settled.
Of course Betfair could have done as you indicated but that would have been to admit an error and that doesn't seem to be in their DNA.
Did you complain, formally? Did you try IBAS or the Gambling Commission?
0 -
Scotland, Wales and NI seem to have understood this. It is to the immense discredit of the Westminster government that they have not.CorrectHorseBattery said:
The only solution is a proper lockdown, evidently the Tiers have failed.MaxPB said:Numbers looks like a complete disaster zone in London, SE and East. Not long until it spreads to the rest of the country. The government needs to answer serious questions about how they will handle this and speeding up the vaccine.
1 -
Alternatively are you sitting comfortably.MarqueeMark said:
It's happened.CorrectHorseBattery said:Can somebody update me on Brexit please
Once upon a time there was this Deal that was oven ready.
And everybody thought good I am voting for that cute little oven ready deal (ORD).
Then the nasty EU Giant put obstacles in the way of the poor ORD
Its owner in order to protect it threatened to send Naval Boats to protect ORDs friends the herrings
Oh you are asleep goodnight sleep tight0 -
Done a bit more digging on the London variant of COVID. There is a mutation in the spike protein but I am not sure where in the protein it is and whether it is a purely genotype change or a phenotype change (i.e. one that changes the amino acid sequence in the protein)
As yet, a correlation with greater transmissibility has been established, but this is not the same as causality, as stated in this BMJ article:
"Does this variant spread more quickly?
"Matt Hancock told the House of Commons on 14 December that initial analysis showed that the new variant “may be associated” with the recent rise in cases in southeast England. However, this is not the same as saying that it is causing the rise.
"Loman explained, “This variant is strongly associated with where we are seeing increasing rates of covid-19. It’s a correlation, but we can’t say it is causation. But there is striking growth in this variant, which is why we are worried, and it needs urgent follow-up and investigation.”"
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m48570
This discussion has been closed.