Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
That's a huge climb down from the EU. They wanted unilateral rights to set tariffs, having a treaty level mechanism means they will be bound by specific rules on what each side is able to do in the case of divergence. As in they have capitulated to a UK demand.
You keep pushing this capitulatin narrative but you have no idea what it actually means. In all recent examples the EU has moved towards the UK. On NI they agreed to the trusted trader scheme (a UK proposal), on subsidies they agreed that EU funding counts as state aid (a huge sticking point for the UK), on divergence they've agreed that both sides will have the right to apply tariffs (a key UK demand), on those tariffs they're now proposing treaty rules and mechanisms for setting them (another key UK demand) rather than unilateral right.
On all major points both sides have negotiated well in this round and on balance the EU has given up much more than the UK.
Anyway, you continue to push the Boris capitulation narrative if it makes you feel better about it all, the reality on the ground is that the EU have given up hugely on both the LPF and governance and it looks like fishing will have a 4-6 year transition and then we'll have a Norway style agreement on it.
Didn't Richard Nabavi point out the other day that the trusted trader scheme proposed by the UK was actually intended for the Eire/NI border, while there wasn't supposed to be a GB/NI border? Oh well, I suppose we can take the use of the trusted trader scheme as a win, even if it does apply to the border that we didn't actually want!
And that's a compromise we've made. I think it's fair and what it does is remove the border for 98% of trade/traders. At that point it doesn't matter where the border is when it only applies in practice to 2%.
I think what it shows is that when both sides are ready to compromise then an agreeable end result is available. It almost seems as though the LPF might end up being a reasonable solution for both parties. I hope it will be anyway and that unlocks the deal.
The other issue that will really upset those who want to remain is that an agreement with the EU and the vaccine rollout, Boris may well see quite a bounce in the polls
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
You must have missed my question to you the first time round. What happens if the SNP do get an absolute majority?
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
That's a huge climb down from the EU. They wanted unilateral rights to set tariffs, having a treaty level mechanism means they will be bound by specific rules on what each side is able to do in the case of divergence. As in they have capitulated to a UK demand.
You keep pushing this capitulatin narrative but you have no idea what it actually means. In all recent examples the EU has moved towards the UK. On NI they agreed to the trusted trader scheme (a UK proposal), on subsidies they agreed that EU funding counts as state aid (a huge sticking point for the UK), on divergence they've agreed that both sides will have the right to apply tariffs (a key UK demand), on those tariffs they're now proposing treaty rules and mechanisms for setting them (another key UK demand) rather than unilateral right.
On all major points both sides have negotiated well in this round and on balance the EU has given up much more than the UK.
Anyway, you continue to push the Boris capitulation narrative if it makes you feel better about it all, the reality on the ground is that the EU have given up hugely on both the LPF and governance and it looks like fishing will have a 4-6 year transition and then we'll have a Norway style agreement on it.
Didn't Richard Nabavi point out the other day that the trusted trader scheme proposed by the UK was actually intended for the Eire/NI border, while there wasn't supposed to be a GB/NI border? Oh well, I suppose we can take the use of the trusted trader scheme as a win, even if it does apply to the border that we didn't actually want!
And that's a compromise we've made. I think it's fair and what it does is remove the border for 98% of trade/traders. At that point it doesn't matter where the border is when it only applies in practice to 2%.
I seem to remember that the weasel words "up to" came before "98%".
Looks like Wales have royally fecked up their reporting system. Nothing yesterday, and only 1,228 today, which isn't credible after 2,021 last Monday and trends in previous days.
Also, their latest alert levels are still nationwide. Surely it should at least be divided into north, south, and the empty middle?
Frankly, if the UK and the EU can't get to a deal now, they should both have their Negotiator's Licences revoked. There is nothing more for either side to achieve that is worth the massive downside of not doing a deal.
Unless Merkel really does want to use Boris as her personal footstool. The EU have been badly served by their contacts in the British Remainer Establishment if they ever thought was going to be the level of their win.
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
That's a huge climb down from the EU. They wanted unilateral rights to set tariffs, having a treaty level mechanism means they will be bound by specific rules on what each side is able to do in the case of divergence. As in they have capitulated to a UK demand.
You keep pushing this capitulatin narrative but you have no idea what it actually means. In all recent examples the EU has moved towards the UK. On NI they agreed to the trusted trader scheme (a UK proposal), on subsidies they agreed that EU funding counts as state aid (a huge sticking point for the UK), on divergence they've agreed that both sides will have the right to apply tariffs (a key UK demand), on those tariffs they're now proposing treaty rules and mechanisms for setting them (another key UK demand) rather than unilateral right.
On all major points both sides have negotiated well in this round and on balance the EU has given up much more than the UK.
Anyway, you continue to push the Boris capitulation narrative if it makes you feel better about it all, the reality on the ground is that the EU have given up hugely on both the LPF and governance and it looks like fishing will have a 4-6 year transition and then we'll have a Norway style agreement on it.
Didn't Richard Nabavi point out the other day that the trusted trader scheme proposed by the UK was actually intended for the Eire/NI border, while there wasn't supposed to be a GB/NI border? Oh well, I suppose we can take the use of the trusted trader scheme as a win, even if it does apply to the border that we didn't actually want!
And that's a compromise we've made. I think it's fair and what it does is remove the border for 98% of trade/traders. At that point it doesn't matter where the border is when it only applies in practice to 2%.
I seem to remember that the weasel words "up to" came before "98%".
That's probably scheme eligibility which means the applications will need to be made to be part of it. I'm sure everyone will want to get in if they are eligible.
Might be worth waiting until we actually see (a) whether there is a deal and (b) what it actually says before commenting.
Just a thought.
After all, the PM said the last deal he negotiated with the EU was a triumph and then a few months later said it was appalling. And you wouldn’t want to be caught believing the word of a PM who talks like that about his own negotiations, would you?
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
Personally I will judge the deal (if there is one) on what it says and if it is good for the UK. I have a fundamental problem with the basis of a Canadian style deal because as far as I am concerned it is a good deal for the EU and a bad deal for the UK.
Canada gives the EU pretty much all they need and does nothing for large parts of the UK economy. It is just a very bad basis for a deal for the UK.
Of course the leavers always seek to personalise it and put it into jingoistic terms as if somehow that changes the situation. It doesn't.
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
Tbf I think the EU - courtesy of Macron - took a maximalist position and refused to cave to the 11th hour, believing we would yield and they would win all. A fair enough position, given their relative strength.
As it happens Boris is a bit bonkers and refused to surrender, so the EU has budged, somewhat, to a stance they would probably have accepted anyway. It’s not a triumph for either side (if it happens) tho both sides will sell it thus. It’s a negotiated deal. Is all. But it’s enough. Let’s hope it works.
Academic institutions (from primary though to tertiary) can be particularly prone to bullying problems, thanks to the power of managers over the careers of those under them.
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
To be fair, Barnier was for a long time encouraged in that view by Theresa May and "bobbins" Robbins on the other side....
Looks like Wales have royally fecked up their reporting system. Nothing yesterday, and only 1,228 today, which isn't credible after 2,021 last Monday and trends in previous days.
Also, their latest alert levels are still nationwide. Surely it should at least be divided into north, south, and the empty middle?
I expect dividing Wales (which obviously makes sense) would be very embarrassing for Mark.
He has fecked up most in the Labour heartlands.
Leaving the Valleys in the grimmest lockdown whilst Mid and North Wales are loosened would not be a good look.
Frankly, if the UK and the EU can't get to a deal now, they should both have their Negotiator's Licences revoked. There is nothing more for either side to achieve that is worth the massive downside of not doing a deal.
Unless Merkel really does want to use Boris as her personal footstool. The EU have been badly served by their contacts in the British Remainer Establishment if they ever thought was going to be the level of their win.
I'm not sure it is necessarily the fault of the negotiators or, indeed, anyone if there is no deal. It could simply reflect a situation in which there is no common ground between the participants on which to build a deal, and a good negotiator would, presumably, recognise that.
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
So what are you waiting for? There's a pro-indy majority at Holyrood RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE.
Denying it exists [edit] in terms of a moral imperative on the London regime is remarkable even by your standards of goalpost-moving.
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
Tbf I think the EU - courtesy of Macron - took a maximalist position and refused to cave to the 11th hour, believing we would yield and they would win all. A fair enough position, given their relative strength.
As it happens Boris is a bit bonkers and refused to surrender, so the EU has budged, somewhat, to a stance they would probably have accepted anyway. It’s not a triumph for either side (if it happens) tho both sides will sell it thus. It’s a negotiated deal. Is all. But it’s enough. Let’s hope it works.
I think our remainers encouraged that view, very much like Edward VIII writing to Hitler and telling him to continue bombing London because the British would eventually sue for peace.
The other issue that will really upset those who want to remain is that an agreement with the EU and the vaccine rollout, Boris may well see quite a bounce in the polls
Maybe. But most people will remember that Johnson and his useless cronies have been the biggest obstacle to the earlier solution of both challenges.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
You must have missed my question to you the first time round. What happens if the SNP do get an absolute majority?
Absolutely nothing. You will have to go whistle for your referendum because Boris will refuse until the next GE. what will you do then? Complain to the headmaster?
Academic institutions (from primary though to tertiary) can be particularly prone to bullying problems, thanks to the power of managers over the careers of those under them.
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
You begin to wonder whether there is something about sitting alone and writing stuff that, sooner or later, sends people a bit mad.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
So what are you waiting for? There's a pro-indy majority at Holyrood RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE.
Denying it exists [edit] in terms of a moral imperative on the London regime is remarkable even by your standards of goalpost-moving.
So call another fucking indyref then, you pathetic oat-eating jerks
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
You begin to wonder whether there is something about sitting alone and writing stuff that, sooner or later, sends people a bit mad.
I think that's where nubile, lefty, much younger brides can help.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
So what are you waiting for? There's a pro-indy majority at Holyrood RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE.
Denying it exists [edit] in terms of a moral imperative on the London regime is remarkable even by your standards of goalpost-moving.
So call another fucking indyref then, you pathetic oat-eating jerks
You've just told us we can't have one. Be at least consistent, there's a good boy.
The bigger lol is going to be good old Sir Keith voting through Boris' Deal...
I'm unsure which is going to anger the 'remainiacs' the most - the faux outrage over no deal or the real outrage over a deal?
I think you'll know the 'remainiacs' (nice move on the conciliation front btw) are angry when the Guardian has front pages about them sending the gunboats in.
In this country the notion of the common good was junked under Thatcher, who wasn't a notable racial justice warrior as far as I recall. The elites liberated themselves from the notion of the common good, led by their own greed. I suspect the main structural factor was the fading of memories of WW2, which had briefly imposed a sense of solidarity and common decency on the ruling classes. The timelines are completely out for the argument in this piece to have even a degree of plausibility.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
So what are you waiting for? There's a pro-indy majority at Holyrood RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE.
Denying it exists [edit] in terms of a moral imperative on the London regime is remarkable even by your standards of goalpost-moving.
2014 was a once in a generation referendum, as confirmed by both Salmond and Sturgeon at the time, Boris is merely respecting that.
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
You begin to wonder whether there is something about sitting alone and writing stuff that, sooner or later, sends people a bit mad.
The eventual UK-EU deal will be perhaps the first trade agreement in history to envisage more friction rather than less, less economic cooperation and regulatory alignment rather than more. Both sides will be worse off because of it, though the UK is three times as exposed and will be the biggest loser. It suits Johnson to define success as having any deal rather than no deal – a threat that was a political hoax all along. And it suits the Labour party, which has come to believe that voting for Johnson’s deal is in its electoral interest. Titillated by the drama, British political commentators have played their part too, focusing on the fact of a deal rather than the quality of it. As has always been the case with Brexit, there was never a betrayal of Britain in Brussels; that only happens at Westminster.
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
She's desperate to be 'cancelled'. She has a book to promote and nothing like a good cancelling to start your PR drive. Sure fire way to get on every radio show and a few TV spots as well.
Have to say that Rod Liddle coming out as a nonce hasn't got as much comment as I was expecting.
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
You begin to wonder whether there is something about sitting alone and writing stuff that, sooner or later, sends people a bit mad.
Says poster with a history of THIRTY THOUSAND comments on PB
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
You must have missed my question to you the first time round. What happens if the SNP do get an absolute majority?
Absolutely nothing. You will have to go whistle for your referendum because Boris will refuse until the next GE. what will you do then? Complain to the headmaster?
I'm sorry to distract you from your obsession with the size of the UK's national penis, but I was asking the person who seems to think the SNP having an absolute majority is important, not you. His opinion on the matter is about as crucial as yours, but it is his point, ergo..
The other issue that will really upset those who want to remain is that an agreement with the EU and the vaccine rollout, Boris may well see quite a bounce in the polls
Maybe. But most people will remember that Johnson and his useless cronies have been the biggest obstacle to the earlier solution of both challenges.
Why do you LDs always confuse yourselves with 'most people'? Come out of the telephone box!
CNN: All 50 states and the District of Columbia have certified their presidential results, according to CNN's tally, as the Electoral College process moves ahead today with the meeting of electors.
The electors are required by law to convene on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December, which this year is Dec. 14. The electors' votes are later transmitted to officials and counted in a joint session of Congress on Jan. 6.
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
You begin to wonder whether there is something about sitting alone and writing stuff that, sooner or later, sends people a bit mad.
Says poster with a history of THIRTY THOUSAND comments on PB
Perhaps there is a way to delete his entire posting history so that it only looks as though he has posted a couple of thousand times.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
So what are you waiting for? There's a pro-indy majority at Holyrood RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE.
Denying it exists [edit] in terms of a moral imperative on the London regime is remarkable even by your standards of goalpost-moving.
2014 was a once in a generation referendum, as confirmed by both Salmond and Sturgeon at the time, Boris is merely respecting that.
I'm ashamed to be on the same discussion groip as a self-proclaimed Conservative who pretends that obiter dicta are binding laws. The current Prime Minister's own statements on Brexit over the last 5 years, for instance ...
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
You begin to wonder whether there is something about sitting alone and writing stuff that, sooner or later, sends people a bit mad.
Says poster with a history of THIRTY THOUSAND comments on PB
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
You begin to wonder whether there is something about sitting alone and writing stuff that, sooner or later, sends people a bit mad.
Says poster with a history of THIRTY THOUSAND comments on PB
Perhaps there is a way to delete his entire posting history so that it only looks as though he has posted a couple of thousand times.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
You must have missed my question to you the first time round. What happens if the SNP do get an absolute majority?
Absolutely nothing. You will have to go whistle for your referendum because Boris will refuse until the next GE. what will you do then? Complain to the headmaster?
I'm sorry to distract you from your obsession with the size of the UK's national penis, but I was asking the person who seems to think the SNP having an absolute majority is important, not you. His opinion on the matter is about as crucial as yours, but it is his point, ergo..
While you are at it, ask him why the Scottish Greens don't count (but Don't Knows do).
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
She's desperate to be 'cancelled'. She has a book to promote and nothing like a good cancelling to start your PR drive. Sure fire way to get on every radio show and a few TV spots as well.
Have to say that Rod Liddle coming out as a nonce hasn't got as much comment as I was expecting.
Be fair, I think he said he'd keep to the age of consent. There used to be a poster on here that thought restricting himself to teenage Thai prostitutes at age 16 and above made everything ok.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
You must have missed my question to you the first time round. What happens if the SNP do get an absolute majority?
Absolutely nothing. You will have to go whistle for your referendum because Boris will refuse until the next GE. what will you do then? Complain to the headmaster?
I'm sorry to distract you from your obsession with the size of the UK's national penis, but I was asking the person who seems to think the SNP having an absolute majority is important, not you. His opinion on the matter is about as crucial as yours, but it is his point, ergo..
While you are at it, ask him why the Scottish Greens don't count (but Don't Knows do).
Westminster and Westminster alone will decide, there was an absolute SNP majority in 2011 that led to indyref2, if the SNP cannot even repeat that in 2021 they have zero chance of Westminster allowing another referendum, not that that is likely even if they do
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
You must have missed my question to you the first time round. What happens if the SNP do get an absolute majority?
Absolutely nothing. You will have to go whistle for your referendum because Boris will refuse until the next GE. what will you do then? Complain to the headmaster?
I'm sorry to distract you from your obsession with the size of the UK's national penis, but I was asking the person who seems to think the SNP having an absolute majority is important, not you. His opinion on the matter is about as crucial as yours, but it is his point, ergo..
While you are at it, ask him why the Scottish Greens don't count (but Don't Knows do).
Westminster and Westminster alone will decide, there was an absolute SNP majority in 2011 that led to indyref2, if the SNP cannot even repeat that in 2021 they have zero chance of Westminster allowing another referendum, not that that is likely even if they do
C'mon, you know you can find the balls to give a hostage to fortune if you really grit your teeth. If the SNP get an overall majority, a zero chance of Westminster allowing another referendum goes up to what chance?
The answer to 2a is no. P <--> Q is true if both P and Q are true or P and Q are false, otherwise false. However, if P is false and Q is true then P -> Q is true, which makes the whole thing true through the alternation operator. So the second allows a false P but a true Q; the first doesn't. I hope that's clear.
Reasonable views may suggest it's between 25 and 35 years. Not 7. You've got a long wait SNP!
A bit too long. "... calculating how long a generation lasts is not an exact science, and there’s no simple formula. If you look at the generally recognized generations, you could say there have been 6 generations in the last 100 years between 1920 and 2020: GI Generation, Silent Generation, Baby Boomers, Generation X, Millennials, and Gen Z."
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
You begin to wonder whether there is something about sitting alone and writing stuff that, sooner or later, sends people a bit mad.
Says poster with a history of THIRTY THOUSAND comments on PB
Would you advise a regeneration every 10,000 posts to avoid the prospect of humiliation?
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
So what are you waiting for? There's a pro-indy majority at Holyrood RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE.
Denying it exists [edit] in terms of a moral imperative on the London regime is remarkable even by your standards of goalpost-moving.
So call another fucking indyref then, you pathetic oat-eating jerks
The other issue that will really upset those who want to remain is that an agreement with the EU and the vaccine rollout, Boris may well see quite a bounce in the polls
An agreement is better than nothing, but prices will still rise, lorries will still queue.
Reasonable views may suggest it's between 25 and 35 years. Not 7. You've got a long wait SNP!
A bit too long. "... calculating how long a generation lasts is not an exact science, and there’s no simple formula. If you look at the generally recognized generations, you could say there have been 6 generations in the last 100 years between 1920 and 2020: GI Generation, Silent Generation, Baby Boomers, Generation X, Millennials, and Gen Z."
So maybe 16?
OK shall we split the difference between your measure 'Society' generations and mine 'reproductive' generations so shall we go for 20 years? Hopefully SNP will have disappeared by then!
It's sad, Julie Burchill used to be a genuinely interesting columnist and has always been a great writer, but she seems to have lost the plot in recent years. Or maybe she just knows her audience.
You begin to wonder whether there is something about sitting alone and writing stuff that, sooner or later, sends people a bit mad.
Says poster with a history of THIRTY THOUSAND comments on PB
Oh do fuck off Sean, your life is so boring you invent a new character every week to play with. Those voices in your head are not what a normal person experiences.
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
Tbf I think the EU - courtesy of Macron - took a maximalist position and refused to cave to the 11th hour, believing we would yield and they would win all. A fair enough position, given their relative strength.
As it happens Boris is a bit bonkers and refused to surrender, so the EU has budged, somewhat, to a stance they would probably have accepted anyway. It’s not a triumph for either side (if it happens) tho both sides will sell it thus. It’s a negotiated deal. Is all. But it’s enough. Let’s hope it works.
I think our remainers encouraged that view, very much like Edward VIII writing to Hitler and telling him to continue bombing London because the British would eventually sue for peace.
I don’t like to get personal but you should reread that and think about it. It is really quite offensive bollocks - the idea that the EU is like the Nazis and that people who think Britain should be in the EU are quisling traitors.
You seem quite incapable of understanding that people who do not share your view are not evil but just have a different opinion to you. You seem not to understand that there are people in Europe who have real memories of what it was like to live under Nazi rule (my elderly relatives for one) and who view with some contempt people from later generations living in a country which had the very good fortune not to be subject to such rule pathetically using incorrect historical analogies to make themselves look big and the other side look bad.
Grow up. You have the right to post bollocks on sites like this one because people like my father fought to keep this country and the rest of Europe free. He worked as a doctor in Belsen after it was liberated. He knew what Nazism was. The EU wanting to impose tariffs on a trading partner, even unilaterally, is so far away from Nazism as to be in the next galaxy.
If “Remainers” are not reconciled to the Brexit project it is because they see all too many Leavers spouting offensive, ignorant nonsense such as this. Wanting a different relationship with the EU is an honourable project. But this - the constant harking back to and misuse of WW2 to justify a Brexit which has been - let’s be kind - poorly handled, well it’s pathetic and deserves all the scorn and contempt I can lob at it.
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
Tbf I think the EU - courtesy of Macron - took a maximalist position and refused to cave to the 11th hour, believing we would yield and they would win all. A fair enough position, given their relative strength.
As it happens Boris is a bit bonkers and refused to surrender, so the EU has budged, somewhat, to a stance they would probably have accepted anyway. It’s not a triumph for either side (if it happens) tho both sides will sell it thus. It’s a negotiated deal. Is all. But it’s enough. Let’s hope it works.
I think our remainers encouraged that view, very much like Edward VIII writing to Hitler and telling him to continue bombing London because the British would eventually sue for peace.
I don’t like to get personal but you should reread that and think about it. It is really quite offensive bollocks - the idea that the EU is like the Nazis and that people who think Britain should be in the EU are quisling traitors.
You seem quite incapable of understanding that people who do not share your view are not evil but just have a different opinion to you. You seem not to understand that there are people in Europe who have real memories of what it was like to live under Nazi rule (my elderly relatives for one) and who view with some contempt people from later generations living in a country which had the very good fortune not to be subject to such rule pathetically using incorrect historical analogies to make themselves look big and the other side look bad.
Grow up. You have the right to post bollocks on sites like this one because people like my father fought to keep this country and the rest of Europe free. He worked as a doctor in Belsen after it was liberated. He knew what Nazism was. The EU wanting to impose tariffs on a trading partner, even unilaterally, is so far away from Nazism as to be in the next galaxy.
If “Remainers” are not reconciled to the Brexit project it is because they see all too many Leavers spouting offensive, ignorant nonsense such as this. Wanting a different relationship with the EU is an honourable project. But this - the constant harking back to and misuse of WW2 to justify a Brexit which has been - let’s be kind - poorly handled, well it’s pathetic and deserves all the scorn and contempt I can lob at it.
Well said Cyclefree, I agree with every word. The debate and language from both sides has become utterly appalling and those who call it out are deserving of our praise.
It's a shame that some will only call it out as a way to score political points, i.e. a few posters who will remain nameless.
Beyond that, I hope you are otherwise well and I hope your family might be doing a bit better now? Sending my very best wishes either way. Always enjoy your contributions as you know.
The other issue that will really upset those who want to remain is that an agreement with the EU and the vaccine rollout, Boris may well see quite a bounce in the polls
I have said for a while that Johnson will see a sizeable bounce. I have always doubted it would last for more than a few months, and it probably won't be as sizeable as I first thought.
If Starmer whips the PLP to vote for Johnson's trade deal, Labour will lose another vote, mine, granted not to the Conservatives, but by default it helps Johnson.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
You must have missed my question to you the first time round. What happens if the SNP do get an absolute majority?
Absolutely nothing. You will have to go whistle for your referendum because Boris will refuse until the next GE. what will you do then? Complain to the headmaster?
I'm sorry to distract you from your obsession with the size of the UK's national penis, but I was asking the person who seems to think the SNP having an absolute majority is important, not you. His opinion on the matter is about as crucial as yours, but it is his point, ergo..
While you are at it, ask him why the Scottish Greens don't count (but Don't Knows do).
Westminster and Westminster alone will decide, there was an absolute SNP majority in 2011 that led to indyref2, if the SNP cannot even repeat that in 2021 they have zero chance of Westminster allowing another referendum, not that that is likely even if they do
C'mon, you know you can find the balls to give a hostage to fortune if you really grit your teeth. If the SNP get an overall majority, a zero chance of Westminster allowing another referendum goes up to what chance?
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
Tbf I think the EU - courtesy of Macron - took a maximalist position and refused to cave to the 11th hour, believing we would yield and they would win all. A fair enough position, given their relative strength.
As it happens Boris is a bit bonkers and refused to surrender, so the EU has budged, somewhat, to a stance they would probably have accepted anyway. It’s not a triumph for either side (if it happens) tho both sides will sell it thus. It’s a negotiated deal. Is all. But it’s enough. Let’s hope it works.
I think our remainers encouraged that view, very much like Edward VIII writing to Hitler and telling him to continue bombing London because the British would eventually sue for peace.
I don’t like to get personal but you should reread that and think about it. It is really quite offensive bollocks - the idea that the EU is like the Nazis and that people who think Britain should be in the EU are quisling traitors.
You seem quite incapable of understanding that people who do not share your view are not evil but just have a different opinion to you. You seem not to understand that there are people in Europe who have real memories of what it was like to live under Nazi rule (my elderly relatives for one) and who view with some contempt people from later generations living in a country which had the very good fortune not to be subject to such rule pathetically using incorrect historical analogies to make themselves look big and the other side look bad.
Grow up. You have the right to post bollocks on sites like this one because people like my father fought to keep this country and the rest of Europe free. He worked as a doctor in Belsen after it was liberated. He knew what Nazism was. The EU wanting to impose tariffs on a trading partner, even unilaterally, is so far away from Nazism as to be in the next galaxy.
If “Remainers” are not reconciled to the Brexit project it is because they see all too many Leavers spouting offensive, ignorant nonsense such as this. Wanting a different relationship with the EU is an honourable project. But this - the constant harking back to and misuse of WW2 to justify a Brexit which has been - let’s be kind - poorly handled, well it’s pathetic and deserves all the scorn and contempt I can lob at it.
I also really can't see any reason to even talk about WW2 in any political context nowadays. My dad who was born after WW2 ended is 75 years old today - which really should put such matters in perspective. Heck the youngest people who fought in WW2 have to be over 90 years old.
In this country the notion of the common good was junked under Thatcher, who wasn't a notable racial justice warrior as far as I recall. The elites liberated themselves from the notion of the common good, led by their own greed. I suspect the main structural factor was the fading of memories of WW2, which had briefly imposed a sense of solidarity and common decency on the ruling classes. The timelines are completely out for the argument in this piece to have even a degree of plausibility.
Apparently the most equal year in the UK was 1978, just before Callaghan lost to Thatcher.
The answer to 2a is no. P <--> Q is true if both P and Q are true or P and Q are false, otherwise false. However, if P is false and Q is true then P -> Q is true, which makes the whole thing true through the alternation operator. So the second allows a false P but a true Q; the first doesn't. I hope that's clear.
And 2 is a logical consequence of 1 (you can't have the situation where 1 is true but 2 false).
And...
1 is contingent (can be true or false depending on the values of its simple sentences). 2 is a tautology (is true under all values of P and Q).
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
Tbf I think the EU - courtesy of Macron - took a maximalist position and refused to cave to the 11th hour, believing we would yield and they would win all. A fair enough position, given their relative strength.
As it happens Boris is a bit bonkers and refused to surrender, so the EU has budged, somewhat, to a stance they would probably have accepted anyway. It’s not a triumph for either side (if it happens) tho both sides will sell it thus. It’s a negotiated deal. Is all. But it’s enough. Let’s hope it works.
I think our remainers encouraged that view, very much like Edward VIII writing to Hitler and telling him to continue bombing London because the British would eventually sue for peace.
I don’t like to get personal but you should reread that and think about it. It is really quite offensive bollocks - the idea that the EU is like the Nazis and that people who think Britain should be in the EU are quisling traitors.
You seem quite incapable of understanding that people who do not share your view are not evil but just have a different opinion to you. You seem not to understand that there are people in Europe who have real memories of what it was like to live under Nazi rule (my elderly relatives for one) and who view with some contempt people from later generations living in a country which had the very good fortune not to be subject to such rule pathetically using incorrect historical analogies to make themselves look big and the other side look bad.
Grow up. You have the right to post bollocks on sites like this one because people like my father fought to keep this country and the rest of Europe free. He worked as a doctor in Belsen after it was liberated. He knew what Nazism was. The EU wanting to impose tariffs on a trading partner, even unilaterally, is so far away from Nazism as to be in the next galaxy.
If “Remainers” are not reconciled to the Brexit project it is because they see all too many Leavers spouting offensive, ignorant nonsense such as this. Wanting a different relationship with the EU is an honourable project. But this - the constant harking back to and misuse of WW2 to justify a Brexit which has been - let’s be kind - poorly handled, well it’s pathetic and deserves all the scorn and contempt I can lob at it.
There’s an extensive history of anti-EU campaigning linking the EU to Nazi ideas of a united Europe sadly. This line of thinking goes right back to the 60s.
I'm looking forward to Sean T's regeneration. Like Colin Baker this current version has gotten really nasty.
His next one should be Scotch, a Sylvester McCoy noticing deep disquiet about the SNP in the glens and braes while sensing a nascent love for the Union about to burst forth.
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
Tbf I think the EU - courtesy of Macron - took a maximalist position and refused to cave to the 11th hour, believing we would yield and they would win all. A fair enough position, given their relative strength.
As it happens Boris is a bit bonkers and refused to surrender, so the EU has budged, somewhat, to a stance they would probably have accepted anyway. It’s not a triumph for either side (if it happens) tho both sides will sell it thus. It’s a negotiated deal. Is all. But it’s enough. Let’s hope it works.
I think our remainers encouraged that view, very much like Edward VIII writing to Hitler and telling him to continue bombing London because the British would eventually sue for peace.
I don’t like to get personal but you should reread that and think about it. It is really quite offensive bollocks - the idea that the EU is like the Nazis and that people who think Britain should be in the EU are quisling traitors.
You seem quite incapable of understanding that people who do not share your view are not evil but just have a different opinion to you. You seem not to understand that there are people in Europe who have real memories of what it was like to live under Nazi rule (my elderly relatives for one) and who view with some contempt people from later generations living in a country which had the very good fortune not to be subject to such rule pathetically using incorrect historical analogies to make themselves look big and the other side look bad.
Grow up. You have the right to post bollocks on sites like this one because people like my father fought to keep this country and the rest of Europe free. He worked as a doctor in Belsen after it was liberated. He knew what Nazism was. The EU wanting to impose tariffs on a trading partner, even unilaterally, is so far away from Nazism as to be in the next galaxy.
If “Remainers” are not reconciled to the Brexit project it is because they see all too many Leavers spouting offensive, ignorant nonsense such as this. Wanting a different relationship with the EU is an honourable project. But this - the constant harking back to and misuse of WW2 to justify a Brexit which has been - let’s be kind - poorly handled, well it’s pathetic and deserves all the scorn and contempt I can lob at it.
Well said Cyclefree, I agree with every word. The debate and language from both sides has become utterly appalling and those who call it out are deserving of our praise.
It's a shame that some will only call it out as a way to score political points, i.e. a few posters who will remain nameless.
Beyond that, I hope you are otherwise well and I hope your family might be doing a bit better now? Sending my very best wishes either way. Always enjoy your contributions as you know.
Thank you.
Family is split up between here and London. Xmas will be a non-event. Weather here is wild. I am getting the full Charlotte Bronte - lonely woman stuck up on hillside longing for life - experience. Daughter is geeing up fellow businesses to go pester local Tory MPs. Such a fighter. I don’t fancy their chances getting on the wrong side of her!
In this country the notion of the common good was junked under Thatcher, who wasn't a notable racial justice warrior as far as I recall. The elites liberated themselves from the notion of the common good, led by their own greed. I suspect the main structural factor was the fading of memories of WW2, which had briefly imposed a sense of solidarity and common decency on the ruling classes. The timelines are completely out for the argument in this piece to have even a degree of plausibility.
Apparently the most equal year in the UK was 1978, just before Callaghan lost to Thatcher.
I'm looking forward to Sean T's regeneration. Like Colin Baker this current version has gotten really nasty.
His next one should be Scotch, a Sylvester McCoy noticing deep disquiet about the SNP in the glens and braes while sensing a nascent love for the Union about to burst forth.
BBC news - London could go into tier three as early as today
The pubs in London aren't very busy today, which you'd think they would be if people thought the capital was about to be moved into Tier 3.
I've just had a substantial meal in my local pub for £1 plus two pints of bitter. The substantial meal was a beef and onion pie plus salad. I had a side dish of chunky chips. Very nice. I was there because I'd left my flat keys in the flat and was locked out and needed shelter from the rain.
The landlord was in despair awaiting the announcement on London Tier 3.
The other issue that will really upset those who want to remain is that an agreement with the EU and the vaccine rollout, Boris may well see quite a bounce in the polls
I think you'll find that most people, regardless of whether they voted "leave" or "remain", want a deal with the EU and want a vaccine rolled out asap.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
You must have missed my question to you the first time round. What happens if the SNP do get an absolute majority?
Absolutely nothing. You will have to go whistle for your referendum because Boris will refuse until the next GE. what will you do then? Complain to the headmaster?
I'm sorry to distract you from your obsession with the size of the UK's national penis, but I was asking the person who seems to think the SNP having an absolute majority is important, not you. His opinion on the matter is about as crucial as yours, but it is his point, ergo..
While you are at it, ask him why the Scottish Greens don't count (but Don't Knows do).
Westminster and Westminster alone will decide, there was an absolute SNP majority in 2011 that led to indyref2, if the SNP cannot even repeat that in 2021 they have zero chance of Westminster allowing another referendum, not that that is likely even if they do
C'mon, you know you can find the balls to give a hostage to fortune if you really grit your teeth. If the SNP get an overall majority, a zero chance of Westminster allowing another referendum goes up to what chance?
And he still hasn't explained in his dulcet Estuary accent how the Scottish Greens suddenly disappear from consideration.
BBC news - London could go into tier three as early as today
The pubs in London aren't very busy today, which you'd think they would be if people thought the capital was about to be moved into Tier 3.
I've just had a substantial meal in my pub for £1 plus two pints of bitter. The substantial meal was a beef and onion pie plus salad. I had a side dish of chunky chips. Very nice. I was there because I'd left my flat keys in the flat and was locked out and needed shelter from the rain.
The landlord was in despair awaiting the announcement on London Tier 3.
The pub wasn't very busy.
In a year of stupidities from our policy makers and science advisors, the "substantial meal" issue must be in the top three of plain bonkers.
I'm looking forward to Sean T's regeneration. Like Colin Baker this current version has gotten really nasty.
His next one should be Scotch, a Sylvester McCoy noticing deep disquiet about the SNP in the glens and braes while sensing a nascent love for the Union about to burst forth.
We have enough transient SCon rampers turn up at election time anyways to need a long running character
That is crazy. Who in the UK thinks there are parts of other countries that belong to us, and which parts? Ireland? Calais? Bonkers.
It's not that crazy when you consider how much and how often the borders of Europe have changed. That's why the EU has been so great - it's turned a lot of these borders into less important lines on maps, almost akin to arguments over whether Middlesbrough should still be in Yorkshire, Monmouthshire part of England, etc.
BBC news - London could go into tier three as early as today
The pubs in London aren't very busy today, which you'd think they would be if people thought the capital was about to be moved into Tier 3.
I've just had a substantial meal in my pub for £1 plus two pints of bitter. The substantial meal was a beef and onion pie plus salad. I had a side dish of chunky chips. Very nice. I was there because I'd left my flat keys in the flat and was locked out and needed shelter from the rain.
The landlord was in despair awaiting the announcement on London Tier 3.
The pub wasn't very busy.
In a year of stupidities from our policy makers and science advisors, the "substantial meal" issue must be in the top three of plain bonkers.
I think Sunak deciding to kill people in September will ease it out.
That is crazy. Who in the UK thinks there are parts of other countries that belong to us, and which parts? Ireland? Calais? Bonkers.
Remember 8% of people support anything.
I am however interested if the remainder actually have a particular piece of territory in mind, or a general belief that they are simply hard done by their neighbours.
Don't you know that there wasn't a "don't know" option in 2014? Or are you just being dishonest and hoping people are too stupid to notice?
Well I confess to being too stupid to notice. Surely HYUFD my favourite poll reader hasn't been comparing apples and pears?
Also to the point, he's been hoping again today that people will only count SNP MSPs as pro-independence for the purposes of legitimising indyref 2, without remembering that the Scottish Greens are also pro-indy, as are several potential minor parties such as the SSP.
There already is an SNP and Green majority at Holyrood, if the SNP cannot even get an absolute majority at Holyrood as they had in 2011 before indyref 2014 then Boris will easily dismiss Sturgeon and any calls for indyref2, he would likely do so anyway but the lack of an SNP majority blows the argument for indyref2 below the waterline
So what are you waiting for? There's a pro-indy majority at Holyrood RIGHT NOW THIS MINUTE.
Denying it exists [edit] in terms of a moral imperative on the London regime is remarkable even by your standards of goalpost-moving.
2014 was a once in a generation referendum, as confirmed by both Salmond and Sturgeon at the time, Boris is merely respecting that.
The other issue that will really upset those who want to remain is that an agreement with the EU and the vaccine rollout, Boris may well see quite a bounce in the polls
I think you'll find that most people, regardless of whether they voted "leave" or "remain", want a deal with the EU and want a vaccine rolled out asap.
90% of people hold those opinions. The other 10% are very over-represented in the media and on political forums.
Everyone could do with dialling the language down a notch, becuase the vast majority of the public aren’t listening.
Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. His comments came despite suggestions from Downing Street that a no-deal exit remains likely.
Smells like capitulation
Funny - I was reading yesterday that the EU has dropped the ratchet approach - have they capitulated too? Its called negotiation.
The EU's movement consists of finding a different way to package the same thing in a way that makes it presentationally acceptable to the UK government. That's not the same as a concession on the substance.
It’s neither. Both sides are actually moving. It’s a genuine compromise. I understand how this might upset remoaners who desire nothing but British defeat and surrender but what can you do. Yours is a pathology
They can't bear the idea that the UK and EU are equals in anything, the EU must always be more powerful or better. That isn't the case and it never has been. One of the reasons we're in this position is Barnier actually believing that and it's taken UVdL sidelining him to unlock a deal.
Tbf I think the EU - courtesy of Macron - took a maximalist position and refused to cave to the 11th hour, believing we would yield and they would win all. A fair enough position, given their relative strength.
As it happens Boris is a bit bonkers and refused to surrender, so the EU has budged, somewhat, to a stance they would probably have accepted anyway. It’s not a triumph for either side (if it happens) tho both sides will sell it thus. It’s a negotiated deal. Is all. But it’s enough. Let’s hope it works.
I think our remainers encouraged that view, very much like Edward VIII writing to Hitler and telling him to continue bombing London because the British would eventually sue for peace.
I don’t like to get personal but you should reread that and think about it. It is really quite offensive bollocks - the idea that the EU is like the Nazis and that people who think Britain should be in the EU are quisling traitors.
You seem quite incapable of understanding that people who do not share your view are not evil but just have a different opinion to you. You seem not to understand that there are people in Europe who have real memories of what it was like to live under Nazi rule (my elderly relatives for one) and who view with some contempt people from later generations living in a country which had the very good fortune not to be subject to such rule pathetically using incorrect historical analogies to make themselves look big and the other side look bad.
Grow up. You have the right to post bollocks on sites like this one because people like my father fought to keep this country and the rest of Europe free. He worked as a doctor in Belsen after it was liberated. He knew what Nazism was. The EU wanting to impose tariffs on a trading partner, even unilaterally, is so far away from Nazism as to be in the next galaxy.
If “Remainers” are not reconciled to the Brexit project it is because they see all too many Leavers spouting offensive, ignorant nonsense such as this. Wanting a different relationship with the EU is an honourable project. But this - the constant harking back to and misuse of WW2 to justify a Brexit which has been - let’s be kind - poorly handled, well it’s pathetic and deserves all the scorn and contempt I can lob at it.
No, you just can't bear the idea that there are people in this country who seek to undermine it. The situation is obviously not the same and the EU clearly aren't the Nazi party. My point is that there have been people in the UK talking to the EU and encouraging them to take a more confrontational position rather than seek compromise as they have begun doing. There are people who have built up the myth that the UK will "capitulate" and that kind of thinking has led to the EU holding on to their no compromise position basically until a couple of weeks ago when they realised that they have been badly advised.
Just an FYI, my grandfather fought in the war and my great grandfather in the first world war. I mean no disrespect in drawing the comparison, it was a situation back then where bad advice from a traitor led to misery in the UK. I think even you can see that if you'd take a second and drop the faux outrage.
Anyway, more than anything else I want there to be a deal between the UK and EU that will hold together for more than a few months. It's starting to look like that will happen because the EU are compromising, if the likes of Barnier and co weren't told by "well informed" Brits that the UK would eventually fold either way we'd have reached this position much earlier and we wouldn't be days away from the disaster of no deal.
That is crazy. Who in the UK thinks there are parts of other countries that belong to us, and which parts? Ireland? Calais? Bonkers.
Remember 8% of people support anything.
I am however interested if the remainder actually have a particular piece of territory in mind, or a general belief that they are simply hard done by their neighbours.
Comments
I think what it shows is that when both sides are ready to compromise then an agreeable end result is available. It almost seems as though the LPF might end up being a reasonable solution for both parties. I hope it will be anyway and that unlocks the deal.
What happens if the SNP do get an absolute majority?
Also, their latest alert levels are still nationwide. Surely it should at least be divided into north, south, and the empty middle?
Unless Merkel really does want to use Boris as her personal footstool. The EU have been badly served by their contacts in the British Remainer Establishment if they ever thought was going to be the level of their win.
Just a thought.
After all, the PM said the last deal he negotiated with the EU was a triumph and then a few months later said it was appalling. And you wouldn’t want to be caught believing the word of a PM who talks like that about his own negotiations, would you?
Canada gives the EU pretty much all they need and does nothing for large parts of the UK economy. It is just a very bad basis for a deal for the UK.
Of course the leavers always seek to personalise it and put it into jingoistic terms as if somehow that changes the situation. It doesn't.
"How race politics liberated the elites
If society is taken to be inherently oppressive, the notion of a common good disappears
BY MATTHEW CRAWFORD"
https://unherd.com/2020/12/how-race-politics-liberated-the-elites/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3
As it happens Boris is a bit bonkers and refused to surrender, so the EU has budged, somewhat, to a stance they would probably have accepted anyway. It’s not a triumph for either side (if it happens) tho both sides will sell it thus. It’s a negotiated deal. Is all. But it’s enough. Let’s hope it works.
He has fecked up most in the Labour heartlands.
Leaving the Valleys in the grimmest lockdown whilst Mid and North Wales are loosened would not be a good look.
Denying it exists [edit] in terms of a moral imperative on the London regime is remarkable even by your standards of goalpost-moving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdlGplW4SQc
https://twitter.com/jamiegreeneUK/status/1158308717961592832?s=20
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/13/brexit-deadline-drama-uk-bad-deal-trade-agreement-friction
Have to say that Rod Liddle coming out as a nonce hasn't got as much comment as I was expecting.
The electors are required by law to convene on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December, which this year is Dec. 14. The electors' votes are later transmitted to officials and counted in a joint session of Congress on Jan. 6.
Reasonable views may suggest it's between 25 and 35 years. Not 7. You've got a long wait SNP!
If the SNP get an overall majority, a zero chance of Westminster allowing another referendum goes up to what chance?
"... calculating how long a generation lasts is not an exact science, and there’s no simple formula. If you look at the generally recognized generations, you could say there have been 6 generations in the last 100 years between 1920 and 2020: GI Generation, Silent Generation, Baby Boomers, Generation X, Millennials, and Gen Z."
So maybe 16?
Leave @IanB2 the fuck alone.
You seem quite incapable of understanding that people who do not share your view are not evil but just have a different opinion to you. You seem not to understand that there are people in Europe who have real memories of what it was like to live under Nazi rule (my elderly relatives for one) and who view with some contempt people from later generations living in a country which had the very good fortune not to be subject to such rule pathetically using incorrect historical analogies to make themselves look big and the other side look bad.
Grow up. You have the right to post bollocks on sites like this one because people like my father fought to keep this country and the rest of Europe free. He worked as a doctor in Belsen after it was liberated. He knew what Nazism was. The EU wanting to impose tariffs on a trading partner, even unilaterally, is so far away from Nazism as to be in the next galaxy.
If “Remainers” are not reconciled to the Brexit project it is because they see all too many Leavers spouting offensive, ignorant nonsense such as this. Wanting a different relationship with the EU is an honourable project. But this - the constant harking back to and misuse of WW2 to justify a Brexit which has been - let’s be kind - poorly handled, well it’s pathetic and deserves all the scorn and contempt I can lob at it.
It's a shame that some will only call it out as a way to score political points, i.e. a few posters who will remain nameless.
Beyond that, I hope you are otherwise well and I hope your family might be doing a bit better now? Sending my very best wishes either way. Always enjoy your contributions as you know.
If Starmer whips the PLP to vote for Johnson's trade deal, Labour will lose another vote, mine, granted not to the Conservatives, but by default it helps Johnson.
And...
1 is contingent (can be true or false depending on the values of its simple sentences).
2 is a tautology (is true under all values of P and Q).
Family is split up between here and London. Xmas will be a non-event. Weather here is wild. I am getting the full Charlotte Bronte - lonely woman stuck up on hillside longing for life - experience. Daughter is geeing up fellow businesses to go pester local Tory MPs. Such a fighter. I don’t fancy their chances getting on the wrong side of her!
The landlord was in despair awaiting the announcement on London Tier 3.
The pub wasn't very busy.
(Are the CIs in NATO? Maybe the French are hankering after them.)
The North East in Tier 3? Who cares right?
We have them now, apparently, and yet the lockdowns are getting worse not better.
Not confirmed
I am however interested if the remainder actually have a particular piece of territory in mind, or a general belief that they are simply hard done by their neighbours.
It is the winner's manifesto "Vote No to keep Scotland in the EU" which has to be tested, and it fails.
Everyone could do with dialling the language down a notch, becuase the vast majority of the public aren’t listening.
Just an FYI, my grandfather fought in the war and my great grandfather in the first world war. I mean no disrespect in drawing the comparison, it was a situation back then where bad advice from a traitor led to misery in the UK. I think even you can see that if you'd take a second and drop the faux outrage.
Anyway, more than anything else I want there to be a deal between the UK and EU that will hold together for more than a few months. It's starting to look like that will happen because the EU are compromising, if the likes of Barnier and co weren't told by "well informed" Brits that the UK would eventually fold either way we'd have reached this position much earlier and we wouldn't be days away from the disaster of no deal.