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  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,102

    To be honest I just want a deal and everyone wins by moving on in an amicable manner
    What Johnson has just said- i.e. we must follow EU standards etc- seems to be totally at odds with what Ursela just said at that EU conference. So it's all just bluff and bluster.

    If the UK doesn't go for a deal now - it's because it never wanted one. And the fallout of that is on Johnson
  • DavidL said:

    Citation needed, I'm afraid.
    I think when you have Katya Adler, James Forsyth, Tim Shipman, Laura Kuenssberg and Tony Connelly all saying very similar things - amongst others - you can be fairly certain there's something to it.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,696

    Maybe after the West End of Newcastle!

    No, you're right. And the Tyne Valley.
    It won't be a light railway as it would take forever to get into the City Centre. The plan is a normal rail service (to Central Station) with a stop at Northumberland Avenue for interchange to the Metro

    https://www.railfuture.org.uk/Ashington+Blyth+and+Tyne#:~:text=The new service would have,and Seaton Delaval) as well. has full details if it loads
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,399
    Just heard Ursula Van Der luyden explain in the most beautifully articulated English the latest position on the Brexit talks. What a contrast to the embarrassing buffoon of a Prime Minister who followed her.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,121
    edited December 2020
    eek said:

    It won't be a light railway as it would take forever to get into the City Centre. The plan is a normal rail service (to Central Station) with a stop at Northumberland Avenue for interchange to the Metro

    https://www.railfuture.org.uk/Ashington+Blyth+and+Tyne#:~:text=The new service would have,and Seaton Delaval) as well. has full details if it loads
    I agree. However, it can be heavy rail and yet still branded as part of the Metro, just like in London.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,121

    Is this a concession or sedition?

    twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337385736530780161

    Yes.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,118
    Would either of them not require some coherent thought?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,747
    DavidL said:

    Would either of them not require some coherent thought?
    Is he feeling ok?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337373146652020736
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,118

    Is he feeling ok?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337373146652020736
    As long as he is kept away from the buttons. Just 40 more days.
  • Selebian said:

    I can't tell whether you're joking - apologies if so!

    If you're not, did you not also notice that the Canada-US border becomes a bit harder to cross? Shrinking countries about their centres to their true size while maintaining Mercator projections of centres further exaggerates the distances between them at higher latitudes (the Plymouth-Tangiers distance is very different to the length of Norway in the start, Mercator, projection too).

    The best way to look at a map of the world is on a globe.
    No I was being serious although having read your reply I realise I was looking at things in perhaps a way that was not intended by the makers.

    It stems from me having a little bit of useless information in my mind about how long Norway is. Something the Norwegians are always happy to tell you every single time you visit their country :)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,716

    Except that she enthusiastically participated in exactly that kind of spine-crawling authoritarian moralizing, demanding that other people's livelihoods be removed for similarly trivial offences. That she's finally getting a taste of her own medicine is nothing more than natural justice.
    NO. You cannot comment on this. Integrity free zone. Please contact mods and delete your comment.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,349

    Is he feeling ok?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337373146652020736
    He was asking for options for an attack on Iran only a couple of weeks ago. He's full of it.
  • Is he feeling ok?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337373146652020736
    Perhaps he's considering some voluntary work with the Samaritans as a form of expiation?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,560

    Indeed.

    Labour are a party that specialise in failure and misery. Keeping the serfs just about managing and voting for them is their purpose.

    The Tories believe in success. Blair claimed to and certainly achieved it for himself. The SNP believe in making a success out of Scotland - they believe too much too in blaming the English, a bit more concentration on making a success out of Scotland and a bit less England bashing wouldn't go amiss. But Scotland is much better off in the SNPs hands than Labours.

    Hopefully the red wall finds out they're better off with the Tories than Labour too.

    Indeed.

    Labour are a party that specialise in failure and misery. Keeping the serfs just about managing and voting for them is their purpose.

    The Tories believe in success. Blair claimed to and certainly achieved it for himself. The SNP believe in making a success out of Scotland - they believe too much too in blaming the English, a bit more concentration on making a success out of Scotland and a bit less England bashing wouldn't go amiss. But Scotland is much better off in the SNPs hands than Labours.

    Hopefully the red wall finds out they're better off with the Tories than Labour too.
    Labour have historically relied on people voting for them for fear of their lives being even worse. Scots aren't going back to voting labour any time soon. Voters in the red wall may not either.
  • Roger said:

    Just heard Ursula Van Der luyden explain in the most beautifully articulated English the latest position on the Brexit talks. What a contrast to the embarrassing buffoon of a Prime Minister who followed her.

    And yet Johnson apparently speaks very good French. If you will excuse the rather silly headline of this article:

    https://qz.com/1689699/boris-johnson-is-secretly-a-europhile/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,716
    Roger said:

    Just heard Ursula Van Der luyden explain in the most beautifully articulated English the latest position on the Brexit talks. What a contrast to the embarrassing buffoon of a Prime Minister who followed her.

    Johnson "explaining" the LPF issue to the British public -

    "What they're saying is if THEY buy an expensive handbag, WE have to buy one too. That's really not the way to carry on."

    I mean, c'mon. Honestly.
  • So that's where the business support money hasn't gone - in a pre-election bribe voucher scheme:

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1337395212163948545?s=20
  • kinabalu said:

    Johnson "explaining" the LPF issue to the British public -

    "What they're saying is if THEY buy an expensive handbag, WE have to buy one too. That's really not the way to carry on."

    I mean, c'mon. Honestly.
    Cool Britannia. Fit for Brexit.


  • And yet Johnson apparently speaks very good French. If you will excuse the rather silly headline of this article:

    https://qz.com/1689699/boris-johnson-is-secretly-a-europhile/
    Of course he does, he grew up in Brussels.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    NO. You cannot comment on this. Integrity free zone. Please contact mods and delete your comment.
    Lol - aren't the 24 hours up yet? :wink:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,118

    So that's where the business support money hasn't gone - in a pre-election bribe voucher scheme:

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1337395212163948545?s=20

    Don't forget every child being given an A without bothering with exams. I fear in the longer term that bribe will cost the country even more.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,633
    If this deal is done, can we bet on how many months later Boris tells us that it is unacceptable in some way and that we have to breach it?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,050
    Cyclefree said:

    If this deal is done, can we bet on how many months later Boris tells us that it is unacceptable in some way and that we have to breach it?

    Zero
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,118
    Cyclefree said:

    If this deal is done, can we bet on how many months later Boris tells us that it is unacceptable in some way and that we have to breach it?

    Nah, if Boris puts pen to paper his consistent line will that this is the most splendiferous deal since the Peace of Callias, or something.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,050
    DavidL said:

    Nah, if Boris puts pen to paper his consistent line will that this is the most splendiferous deal since the Peace of Callias, or something.

    He said that last time
  • F1: still 20 minutes left but right now Ocon to Ricciardo (Perez and Leclerc in between) are covered by three-thousandths of a second.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,087
    Scott_xP said:
    Most Tories knew, when they picked him, that he was a child being put up for a man’s job.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,118
    Scott_xP said:

    He said that last time
    And your point is?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    DavidL said:

    Nah, if Boris puts pen to paper his consistent line will that this is the most splendiferous deal since the Peace of Callias, or something.
    No. Since the australopithecines finished walloping each other next to the big black monolith.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,911

    Perhaps he's considering some voluntary work with the Samaritans as a form of expiation?
    Hopefully not.
    Imagine being in a state of utter, existential despair...and finding your desperate phone call answered by him.
  • DavidL said:

    Go and see the Muppets Christmas Carol instead. Its absolutely fantastic, probably the best Christmas film.
    It is also the best film version of Christmas Carol yet made, imho.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,716

    To be honest I just want a deal and everyone wins by moving on in an amicable manner
    With you there. Which is why I'm not planning to get too animated about Johnson doing his old trick of trumpeting an agreement essentially on the EU's terms as being a big win for the UK achieved by his diligence, resilience and hardball negotiation.

    Point is, he has to be confident folk will buy that - and so he'll keep the love - otherwise there's a risk of him not doing it. And we do NOT want that. No Deal would be terrible for the country - and what's worse terrible for me personally since I've been banging on forever about how it's the ultimate Not Happening Event and a deal is therefore certain. I'd look a right plonker.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited December 2020
    The oven ready deal - "you just put it in the oven, and it's ready". His public communications style really is that of a 1950's childrens' programme.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,050
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1337399601133916166

    So the "huge concession" from the EU was the deal they were offering all along and BoZo just hasn't taken it
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,050
    DavidL said:

    And your point is?

    He is more than willing to repudiate the most splendiferous deal in the World he already signed
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    Another big rise in cases in Wales today: 2,234, up from 1,471 last Friday. Now over 400 per week per 100,000, and most of that is concentrated in the south where some of the areas are posting scary numbers. Hard lock down needed right now there, not after Christmas.

    Northern Ireland ending a circuit breaker today even though numbers are slowly going up. Scotland relaxing restrictions while cases are no better than constant, so the only way is up there as well. England inching up already when it still hasn't really been long enough for the lockdown end to affect the numbers.

    All very depressing.

  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DavidL said:

    Nah, if Boris puts pen to paper his consistent line will that this is the most splendiferous deal since the Peace of Callias, or something.
    What's rather nice about that allusion is that there's a long tradition of asking undergraduates to determine whether the Peace of Callias ever in fact existed at all...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,121
    Gaussian said:

    Another big rise in cases in Wales today: 2,234, up from 1,471 last Friday. Now over 400 per week per 100,000, and most of that is concentrated in the south where some of the areas are posting scary numbers. Hard lock down needed right now there, not after Christmas.

    Northern Ireland ending a circuit breaker today even though numbers are slowly going up. Scotland relaxing restrictions while cases are no better than constant, so the only way is up there as well. England inching up already when it still hasn't really been long enough for the lockdown end to affect the numbers.

    All very depressing.

    Well I had a lovely "takeaway" pint of Amstel in Newcastle City Centre last night. So there's that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,087
    Gaussian said:

    Another big rise in cases in Wales today: 2,234, up from 1,471 last Friday. Now over 400 per week per 100,000, and most of that is concentrated in the south where some of the areas are posting scary numbers. Hard lock down needed right now there, not after Christmas.

    Northern Ireland ending a circuit breaker today even though numbers are slowly going up. Scotland relaxing restrictions while cases are no better than constant, so the only way is up there as well. England inching up already when it still hasn't really been long enough for the lockdown end to affect the numbers.

    All very depressing.

    The England figure masks the worsening situation in London, adjacent parts of Kent and Essex, and some of eastern England, offset by containing declines most everywhere else, particularly up North.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    It is also the best film version of Christmas Carol yet made, imho.
    I prefer the Alistair Sim one from 1951 , brilliant in my opinion for and old movie.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    moonshine said:

    On topic.

    2020 is the year anyone paying attention realised WE ARE NOT ALONE.

    I continue to be blown away how little traction has been made by the formal releases from the US Navy, statements by senior US congressmen and private sector advisors, as well as convincing eye witness testimony from Top Gun pilots.

    That just takes my breath away.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,243

    No I was being serious although having read your reply I realise I was looking at things in perhaps a way that was not intended by the makers.

    It stems from me having a little bit of useless information in my mind about how long Norway is. Something the Norwegians are always happy to tell you every single time you visit their country :)
    Map projections have to distort country size, distances between them or both - I knew this and yet I still assumed, due to these projections, that Norway was a lot longer than Britain, which it isn't really (just 25% or so). So your useless information is now my useless information :smile:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,716

    Lol - aren't the 24 hours up yet? :wink:
    Philip's are, yes. But you've only just gone in.

    Not in solitary though. Felix is there doing a 72 stretch.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,911
    edited December 2020
    IanB2 said:

    The England figure masks the worsening situation in London, adjacent parts of Kent and Essex, and some of eastern England, offset by containing declines most everywhere else, particularly up North.
    Yep. The particular area for concern is now a big square box around London. The most populated bit of England.
    Wonder if we are not going to look back and regret not just going for 2 more weeks?
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    IanB2 said:

    The England figure masks the worsening situation in London, adjacent parts of Kent and Essex, and some of eastern England, offset by containing declines most everywhere else, particularly up North.
    You're right, it's picking up speed there, with >20% week-over-week rises for London now.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited December 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Starmer still hasn't regained those three or four points since the start of the Corbyn dispute, but I expect the Tories' lead will soon be overtaken by events, and that will look like nothng.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,896
    Gaussian said:

    Another big rise in cases in Wales today: 2,234, up from 1,471 last Friday. Now over 400 per week per 100,000, and most of that is concentrated in the south where some of the areas are posting scary numbers. Hard lock down needed right now there, not after Christmas.

    Northern Ireland ending a circuit breaker today even though numbers are slowly going up. Scotland relaxing restrictions while cases are no better than constant, so the only way is up there as well. England inching up already when it still hasn't really been long enough for the lockdown end to affect the numbers.

    All very depressing.

    Terrible figures for Drakeford and Wales, London I expect is heading for Tier 3 along with Essex, Manchester will probably move down to Tier 2
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,896
    IanB2 said:

    Most Tories knew, when they picked him, that he was a child being put up for a man’s job.
    Boris was picked solely to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both of which he achieved
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,716
    Not convinced on this because if I'm right and the LPF deal is coming they'll probably lose money. Unless of course Johnson builds up the No Deal fear for a while longer, drives those markets down, then tips them the wink when the big "breakthrough" is about to happen. Clean up twice! Gosh, that would be corrupt. No, I don't believe it.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited December 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Not convinced on this because if I'm right and the LPF deal is coming they'll probably lose money. Unless of course Johnson builds up the No Deal fear for a while longer, drives those markets down, then tips them the wink when the big "breakthrough" is about to happen. Clean up twice! Gosh, that would be corrupt. No, I don't believe it.
    Scandalous to even think such things, especially when central Brexit figures like Farage have had nothing whatsoever to do with events like that in the past, and there's no been record of corruption in the current government, either. Take a cold shower and think moral thoughts !
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited December 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Philip's are, yes. But you've only just gone in.

    Not in solitary though. Felix is there doing a 72 stretch.
    Excellent company indeed. Personally, I would prefer cum Felici errare, quam cum aliis vera sentire.
  • HYUFD said:

    Boris was picked solely to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both of which he achieved
    Great, so can we please now get the men in grey suits to chuck him out this afternoon and install someone capable of getting a deal sorted.
  • Selebian said:

    Compared to our team, the EU side are lightweights.
    I believe that "nimble and agile" are the preferred terms. Sure I picked them up here.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    Well I had a lovely "takeaway" pint of Amstel in Newcastle City Centre last night. So there's that.
    Would definitely settle for a takeaway pint. Since March I've actually only been to a bar once and there's nothing like a draught pint.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,911
    HYUFD said:

    Terrible figures for Drakeford and Wales, London I expect is heading for Tier 3 along with Essex, Manchester will probably move down to Tier 2
    Not great in NI either considering they are loosening today.
    2 weeks just does not work.
    4 does, but only marginally, and not for very long.
    It is a long distance race, not a 400 m.
    Any politician, of any stripe, claiming otherwise is dissembling at best. The North is falling now after around 3 months. Just like the first wave.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,896
    edited December 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=39&LAB=37&LIB=8&Brexit=1&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=19.3&SCOTLAB=19&SCOTLIB=5.7&SCOTBrexit=1&SCOTGreen=1.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=51.7&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019

    Electoral Calculus gives a hung parliament with Tories on 312, Labour on 250, the SNP on 58, the LDs on 7, the DUP on 8 and PC on 4 and the SDLP on 2 and the Greens and Alliance each on 1.

    So the Tories and DUP = 320 but Labour + SNP + LDs + PC + Greens + SDLP = 322, so Starmer would still end up PM
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    That just takes my breath away.
    You’re ego is writing cheques your body can’t cash
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,087
    HYUFD said:

    Boris was picked solely to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both of which he achieved
    I think that’s as good as a “yes” that we’re ever going to get from you.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    dixiedean said:

    Not great in NI either considering they are loosening today.
    2 weeks just does not work.
    4 does, but only marginally, and not for very long.
    It is a long distance race, not a 400 m.
    Any politician, of any stripe, claiming otherwise is dissembling at best. The North is falling now after around 3 months. Just like the first wave.
    At least we are now vaccinating those most at risk. I still cant't believe other countries are not doing this.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    HYUFD said:

    Boris was picked solely to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both of which he achieved
    The first point is extremely faint praise. Even Theresa May conducting a pathetic election campaign managed to beat Corbyn.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,724
    kinabalu said:

    Not convinced on this because if I'm right and the LPF deal is coming they'll probably lose money. Unless of course Johnson builds up the No Deal fear for a while longer, drives those markets down, then tips them the wink when the big "breakthrough" is about to happen. Clean up twice! Gosh, that would be corrupt. No, I don't believe it.
    I’m not quite sure I believe all of this either. It’s too neat. Hedge funds, as the name suggests, try to offset risks and, indeed, one of the main ways of doing that is by short selling. But the whole point of a hedge fund is, yes, to maximise returns but also offset risk. It’s one hell of a risk to trash a major economy, within which the same hedge funds will undoubtedly have many investments, just for a short term return.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,896
    eristdoof said:

    The first point is extremely faint praise. Even Theresa May conducting a pathetic election campaign managed to beat Corbyn.
    May lost her majority and failed to deliver Brexit, Boris won a Tory majority of 80 and delivered Brexit last January
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,724
    HYUFD said:

    Boris was picked solely to beat Corbyn and deliver Brexit, both of which he achieved
    So what’s he still doing there?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    eristdoof said:

    The first point is extremely faint praise. Even Theresa May conducting a pathetic election campaign managed to beat Corbyn.
    Just!
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    At least we are now vaccinating those most at risk. I still cant't believe other countries are not doing this.
    It won't be long before other countries follow. For us it was just because all the cards fell in the right places. We backed most of the right vaccines that were ready soonest and our regulatory authority was well placed to approve it quickly.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited December 2020
    DougSeal said:

    I’m not quite sure I believe all of this either. It’s too neat. Hedge funds, as the name suggests, try to offset risks and, indeed, one of the main ways of doing that is by short selling. But the whole point of a hedge fund is, yes, to maximise returns but also offset risk. It’s one hell of a risk to trash a major economy, within which the same hedge funds will undoubtedly have many investments, just for a short term return.
    However, their investment in the original Brexit result is already even better-documented. If I'm not very much mistaken, Crispin Odey is one those who has been quite happy to go public with his own strategy, for instance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,896
    DougSeal said:

    So what’s he still doing there?
    He will complete Brexit, probably with No Deal, if that goes well he will stay, if it goes badly after a year or 2 he will be replaced by Sunak who will go back to the EU for a Deal (Sunak having voted for May's WA 3 times unlike Boris who only voted for it once)
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    RH1992 said:

    It won't be long before other countries follow. For us it was just because all the cards fell in the right places. We backed most of the right vaccines that were ready soonest and our regulatory authority was well placed to approve it quickly.
    3000 people are dying each day in America from Covid. they a vaccine that works great, yet they have delayed using it. Its total madness to me.
  • However, their investment in the original Brexit result is already even better documented.
    And also typically a load of bollocks.

    Hedge funds have investments is not news. They always do. It would more be news if they didn't.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,312
    edited December 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    I think the Tories don’t really want a deal at all. They have convinced themselves that any restraint - even as a result of an agreement freely entered into - is intolerable. They have come to a belief that sovereignty means being able to do exactly what you want with no adverse consequences whatsoever. They believe that the EU is some sort of evil monster out to get them. So why enter into a deal at all?

    And the enthusiastic way in which they all agreed to tear up an agreement they signed up for shows that they don’t really believe in agreements at all.

    The logic of their own beliefs pushes them to a No Deal / with one bound we are free result. And I think that is where we will end up.

    I hope not. But I fear it. The Tory party has been driven mad by a concept they simply do not understand. It is a shame for the rest of us though who have to face the real world consequences of this obsession.
    Trouble is that I can fully understand why Boris and the Brexiteers don't want to sign a deal. It means acknowledging the gap between dreams and reality.

    But that doesn't alter the need to sign a deal.

    There's a Rolling Stones song which sums up the issue. Let's hope it isn't "Out of Time".
  • RH1992 said:

    It won't be long before other countries follow. For us it was just because all the cards fell in the right places. We backed most of the right vaccines that were ready soonest and our regulatory authority was well placed to approve it quickly.
    It's more than just luck since our team which was much maligned by the opposition was getting praise from anyone sensible in backing all the leading contenders (except Moderna which are contractually obliged to only supply the USA until March so it was futile to back them).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,050

    Trouble is that I can fully understand why Boris and the Brexiteers don't want to sign a deal. It means acknowledging the gap between dreams and reality.

    But that doesn't alter the need to sign a deal.

    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1337326960117157889

  • Trouble is that I can fully understand why Boris and the Brexiteers don't want to sign a deal. It means acknowledging the gap between dreams and reality.

    But that doesn't alter the need to sign a deal.

    There's a Rolling Stones song which sums up the issue. Let's hope it isn't "Out of Time".
    Quickly followed by 'You Can't Always Get What You Want'
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,118

    What's rather nice about that allusion is that there's a long tradition of asking undergraduates to determine whether the Peace of Callias ever in fact existed at all...
    Exactly, that is why I chose it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,716
    edited December 2020

    What Johnson has just said- i.e. we must follow EU standards etc- seems to be totally at odds with what Ursela just said at that EU conference. So it's all just bluff and bluster.

    If the UK doesn't go for a deal now - it's because it never wanted one. And the fallout of that is on Johnson
    Yep. To choose stiff general tariffs now over the possibility of selective tariffs in the medium to long future is on the face of it utterly crazy. I was tossing and turning most of the night trying to come up with a valid reason why Johnson might do it. Why he might No Deal. I generated three, which I’d like to share to see if people think they are feasible – I don’t, hence why I’m so confident of a deal – or if they can spot any I’ve missed. They are as follows -

    (1) He thinks that a period of No Deal will drive the EU back to the negotiating table ready to do a deal which does NOT protect their LPF.

    (2) He is planning a big bout of regulation slashing and/or state aid in the short term which he knows will trigger sanctions under the deal and so figures we’re better off just getting on with it from right outside.

    (3) He fears that if he does a deal on LPF it will trigger a Con rebellion and he’ll have to rely on Labour votes to get it through. This being a “Mrs May” look which, if combined with a loss of love amongst the grass roots, could threaten his position, even see him ousted next year.

    What do you guys think?

    (Number 3 is imo the best although I don’t buy it myself. But of course if a plugged in Tory member such as @HYUFD thinks otherwise I will definitely give it further thought.)
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited December 2020

    And also typically a load of bollocks.

    Hedge funds have investments is not news. They always do. It would more be news if they didn't.
    I see. Odey, for instance, is still donating to the Tories in 2020 IIRC, having been one of the most prolific Vote Leave donors of all four years back.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-donor-crispin-odey-eyes-brexit-jackpot-with-300m-bet-against-british-firms-0lwjbnqsn

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    kinabalu said:

    Philip's are, yes. But you've only just gone in.

    Not in solitary though. Felix is there doing a 72 stretch.
    What a strange person you are.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831


    Trouble is that I can fully understand why Boris and the Brexiteers don't want to sign a deal. It means acknowledging the gap between dreams and reality.

    But that doesn't alter the need to sign a deal.

    There's a Rolling Stones song which sums up the issue. Let's hope it isn't "Out of Time".
    Could he refuse responsibility for the deal by putting it before Parliament without endorsing it himself, and leaving it to Labour and a minority of his own party to get it over the line?
  • HYUFD said:
    Johnson should give the SNP that independence vote :)
  • And also typically a load of bollocks.

    Hedge funds have investments is not news. They always do. It would more be news if they didn't.
    Yes, it's utter bollocks. It's similar to the standard Corbynistic garbage of blaming mysterious and shadowy financiers for everything. Quite how those shadowy figures instructed 52% of voters to how to vote is never clear, nor is why they would bother in the first place.

    'Hedge Funds' make a particularly good bogeyman for this conspiracy theory because they sound particularly mysterious and hardly anyone knows what they are. In fact, although originally the term referred to the kind of fund @DougSeal mentioned, i.e. funds that tended to have both long and short positions, nowadays the terms is so widely applied that it's effectively meaningless: they are just Funds, with all manner of different investment strategies.
  • I see. Odey, for instance, is still donating to the Tories in 2020, IIRC, having been one of the most prolific Vote Leave donors four years back.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-donor-crispin-odey-eyes-brexit-jackpot-with-300m-bet-against-british-firms-0lwjbnqsn

    Yes and your point is?

    Hedge funds always have funds and positions. It doesn't mean a fraction of what ignorant reporters tend to think they mean. Typically reports like this concentrate solely on what the fund is shorting without looking at what they're backing which is to entirely misunderstand how hedge funds work.
  • I wonder how many can identify with this?

    image
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,204
    DavidL said:

    Nah, if Boris puts pen to paper his consistent line will that this is the most splendiferous deal since the Peace of Callias, or something.
    This is the bit I don't get, Boris' talent is selling horseshit as gold.
  • Scott_xP said:
    I can't understand why the german carmakers didn't make her pick up the phone?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited December 2020

    Yes, it's utter bollocks. It's similar to the standard Corbynistic garbage of blaming mysterious and shadowy financiers for everything. Quite how those shadowy figures instructed 52% of voters to how to vote is never clear, nor is why they would bother in the first place.

    'Hedge Funds' make a particularly good bogeyman for this conspiracy theory because they sound particularly mysterious and hardly anyone knows what they are. In fact, although originally the term referred to the kind of fund @DougSeal mentioned, i.e. funds that tended to have both long and short positions, nowadays the terms is so widely applied that it's effectively meaningless: they are just Funds, with all manner of different investment strategies.
    The idea that hedge funds have invested in Brexit, and the post-2015 Tories, for the very specific reasons outlined, isn't at all new or controversial. The FT, which is hardly a Corbynist outlet, has run multiple pieces on it for years.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    HYUFD said:

    May lost her majority and failed to deliver Brexit, Boris won a Tory majority of 80 and delivered Brexit last January
    Are you seriously trying to claim that Theresa May did not beat Corbyn in the 2017 GE?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,155
    Gaussian said:

    Could he refuse responsibility for the deal by putting it before Parliament without endorsing it himself, and leaving it to Labour and a minority of his own party to get it over the line?
    If a majority of the Tories oppose the deal they'd defenestrate any leader who put it to the House. This is what finally lead to May's demise, when she started making moves to compromise with the Opposition.
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