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  • When cars go all electric, are HGVs still going to be diesel for the foreseeable? With refuelling infrastructure to match.

    I expect HGVs will largely go electric
  • Scott_xP said:

    Barnier is in charge

    BoZo still hasn't figured out how the EU works...

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1337374641799778306

    Barnier is in charge?

    Does that mean he can unilaterally change his mandate and agree a deal outside his mandate?

    If no, then he's not in charge. The people setting his mandate are in charge.

    You still haven't figured out how the EU works.
  • We have the Peters Projection map, which shows countries according to their actual size, up in our bathroom.
  • matthiasfromhamburgmatthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    edited December 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    BoZo demands to speak to the manager...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1337372376993046529

    He has been speaking to the manager all along.
    He demands to speak to a subset of the group of restaurant owners, despite having made it clear to him (repeatedly)
    that he needs to talk to the manager and the lawyer of the company.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Scott_xP said:

    Barnier is in charge

    BoZo still hasn't figured out how the EU works...

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1337374641799778306

    Barnier is in charge?

    Does that mean he can unilaterally change his mandate and agree a deal outside his mandate?

    If no, then he's not in charge. The people setting his mandate are in charge.

    You still haven't figured out how the EU works.
    Things are the way its 27 members have sovereignly decided they want them to be, I'm afraid. If you want to be in a position to change that, you need to start campaigning to rejoin.
  • I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    edited December 2020

    Angela wearing the full Dr Marten in that pic?

    On my last trip abroad (Berlin) I noticed that all the cool young women were wearing Docs. I'd have a good go at arguing that the UK's greatest international cultural icon is the DM (preferably not on the foot of a soccer casual booting baws, but they all seem to go for naff trainers nowadays).

    A friend in Canada just obtained a pair for her 12 year old daughter.
    Apparently, this year's must have gift.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Stocky said:

    It`s being reported that 14 day self-isolation is being cut to 10 days.

    See below - not sure if the cut applies to school pupils (can`t see why not):

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-self-isolation-period-for-coronavirus-contacts-and-holiday-quarantine-cut-to-10-days-12157956
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    Johnson simply doesn't understand

    is the root of many problems...
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I don't think Boris wants to walk.

    But, yes both sides have moved a bit - they need to do so a little bit more and finish this.

    Neither side can screw this up.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    edited December 2020

    FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you're right. Boris will go for it. All he'll be concentrating on now is the spin - how to ensure that the Churchillian triumph gets maximum airtime, whilst any grumbles about the actualities are drowned out until it's yesterday's news.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Johnson simply doesn't understand

    is the root of many problems...
    He has certainly made you paranoid
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good manufacturing news today,

    Britishvolt has confirmed Blyth in Northumberland as its chosen location for a new, £2.6 billion gigaplant that’s intended to boost battery supply ahead of a surge in electric vehicle demand. The plant, which will be similar to the one built by Tesla in the US, comes as part of the UK Government’s low carbon transport project fund, which includes investment in battery cell production. Britishvolt is heading up the scheme, and forecasts 3,000 highly skilled new jobs and 5,000 more in the wider supply chain

    https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-ev/--163-2-6bn-gigafactory-planned-for-blyth/43495

    But, this is not such good news for perennial loser, Mark Drakeford, & his clowns in Corruption Bay

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53438992

    "Britishvolt had also been considering a Coventry site but said it had signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with the Welsh Government to build the factory in St Athan, Vale of Glamorgan."
    They could have had both Ineos and Britishvolt announce this week.

    How come the much-hailed drive to attract industry back to South Wales hasn’t materialised, despite lots of talking?

    Talking of talking, have they started digging to fix the M4 yet, or are they still thinking they don’t need to fix it?

    Maybe someone will dare to suggest, that the two things might be related...
    You are of course right about the connection between poor transport links to South Wales & the disinclination of businesses to re-locate there -- but there is little hope of Drakeford, or anyone else in Welsh Labour, understanding this rather basic point.

    Drakeford is trying to get money back from Ineos. Ha, ha ... When he doesn't, I expect he will blame Boris.

    Or maybe Drakeford will work down the same blame list for his mishandling of the pandemic in Wales, in which case the blame goes

    1. Boris & the Tories,
    2. The Welsh Supermarkets who sell mops,
    3. The Welsh People not "abiding by the rules",
    4. Beer,
    5. The Churches,
    6. BigG and the rest of North Wales.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    When cars go all electric, are HGVs still going to be diesel for the foreseeable? With refuelling infrastructure to match.

    The long-distance 44-tonne trucks will stay diesel, probably until hydrogen comes along. Shorter range delivery vans will be mostly electric in the next decade though.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Drakeford sinking without trace as he announces the disaster that is covid in Wales

    All outdoor attractions across Wales to close

    He has announced that it is inevitable to move to alert 4 after Christmas unless everyone reduces the number of people we see or mix with

    Blaming the public is not a good look

    Yet it's one popular with yourself and the other PB moralisers, who call for a reporter's career to be destroyed because she broke covid rules.

    Funny old world.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    In other news:

    My wife is going to see Muppets Christmas Carol tomorrow at the cinema with my daughter.

    I might see this obviously CHRISTMAS film being shown at the same time:
    https://www.odeon.co.uk/films/die-hard/HO00001132/?cinema=522

    Go and see the Muppets Christmas Carol instead. Its absolutely fantastic, probably the best Christmas film.
    Watched it last night. Still cried.

    It helps that it is just one of those timeless tales with a message we can all get behind but realise we often fall short on ourselves: Don't be such a dick.
    And Michael Caine is absolutely superb. Playing it relentlessly straight, but with just the right amount of knowing twinkle in his eye.
  • A statement of meaningless platitudes, from an organisation whose credibility is utterly shot and which no self-respecting government can trust to deliver in substance.
    Scott_xP said:
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Barnier is in charge

    BoZo still hasn't figured out how the EU works...

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1337374641799778306

    Barnier is in charge?

    Does that mean he can unilaterally change his mandate and agree a deal outside his mandate?

    If no, then he's not in charge. The people setting his mandate are in charge.

    You still haven't figured out how the EU works.
    Things are the way its 27 members have sovereignly decided they want them to be, I'm afraid. If you want to be in a position to change that, you need to start campaigning to rejoin.
    The way the 27 are set up is disfunctional which is why we are leaving.

    On our way out we are dealing with their disfunctionality. So be it.

    Only reassures what a right decision it was to leave in the first place.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    edited December 2020

    FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    DavidL said:

    Really quite disappointing that the planet continued to warm during Covid. I find it hard to imagine us managing to reduce output, manufacturing and travel as much as it did for some considerable time to come. Maybe not worked through yet? I thought that the lack of flights was supposed to be having a noticeable effect for a start.

    There's considerable lag in the climate system because of how long it takes the oceans to warm, so you wouldn't have expected to see any change in the temperature trajectory.

    I'm expecting to see some papers on changes in clouds due to the reduction in aviation, but I don't know if any have been published yet.
    Besides which, I think we will - regardless of absolute levels of energy consumption in the decades ahead - see significant reduction of fossil fuel usage, starting in the not too distant future.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,425

    We have the Peters Projection map, which shows countries according to their actual size, up in our bathroom.
    Unfortunately that projection massively distorts shapes. Use the Mollweide projection instead, it's much better!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223
    Request for assistance -

    Does anybody on here know if there is a way to look at what a Sporting Index prices screen was showing on a date in the past?

    Please answer and tag me if you have ever done this or know how to. Cheers.
  • I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.
  • We have the Peters Projection map, which shows countries according to their actual size, up in our bathroom.
    Unfortunately that projection massively distorts shapes. Use the Mollweide projection instead, it's much better!
    Buy a globe.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    And Tyne Valley.
  • I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.

    I thought Labour got all its votes from middle class, metropolitan, liberals - the epitome of the not struggling.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    DavidL said:

    The problem with that kind of silly analogy is that if they don't come to an agreement with him he still lives next door and can do whatever he damn well likes.

    Except swim in the pool. Which is his favourite thing in the whole World...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    dixiedean said:

    I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    And Tyne Valley.
    Maybe after the West End of Newcastle!

    No, you're right. And the Tyne Valley.
  • I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.

    I thought Labour got all its votes from middle class, metropolitan, liberals - the epitome of the not struggling.

    A mix of both.

    They're certainly led by city metropolitan liberals which is why the left behind have left them now across the red wall and turned to the Tories.

    Historically though that wasn't the case.
  • Drakeford sinking without trace as he announces the disaster that is covid in Wales

    All outdoor attractions across Wales to close

    He has announced that it is inevitable to move to alert 4 after Christmas unless everyone reduces the number of people we see or mix with

    Blaming the public is not a good look

    On the contrary, the focus on everyone rather than just some should strike a chord with the majority, if not you. People who take this pandemic seriously are very much prepared to blame other members of the public who they see blatantly disrespecting the rules and undermining the sacrifices that they themselves are making.
  • DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The problem with that kind of silly analogy is that if they don't come to an agreement with him he still lives next door and can do whatever he damn well likes. And by the way, that right of way that members used to use past his fish pond? It's closed.

    He is restrained in what he can do by his electorate, which does not seem to want lower standards and fewer rights, as well as his lack of patrol ships.

  • Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    The problem with that kind of silly analogy is that if they don't come to an agreement with him he still lives next door and can do whatever he damn well likes.

    Except swim in the pool. Which is his favourite thing in the whole World...
    Except he has his own pool and access to other pools too.
  • I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.

    I thought Labour got all its votes from middle class, metropolitan, liberals - the epitome of the not struggling.

    A mix of both.

    They're certainly led by city metropolitan liberals which is why the left behind have left them now across the red wall and turned to the Tories.

    Historically though that wasn't the case.

    You don't get much more metropolitan and liberal than Tony Blair.

  • Drakeford sinking without trace as he announces the disaster that is covid in Wales

    All outdoor attractions across Wales to close

    He has announced that it is inevitable to move to alert 4 after Christmas unless everyone reduces the number of people we see or mix with

    Blaming the public is not a good look

    Yet it's one popular with yourself and the other PB moralisers, who call for a reporter's career to be destroyed because she broke covid rules.

    Funny old world.
    Kay Burley is not any old reporter

    She fronts Sky and her attacks on covid rule breakers were incessant but then she goes and breaks the same rules she attacks others for. Indeed she has accepted she is off the air for 6 months and will reflect no doubt on her hypocrisy
  • Scott_xP said:
    We have two wonderful win/win fates before us. The question is which one we will get, the wonderful one or the even more wonderful cake and eat it one?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.

    I thought Labour got all its votes from middle class, metropolitan, liberals - the epitome of the not struggling.

    A mix of both.

    They're certainly led by city metropolitan liberals which is why the left behind have left them now across the red wall and turned to the Tories.

    Historically though that wasn't the case.

    You don't get much more metropolitan and liberal than Tony Blair.

    Or Boris Johnson.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited December 2020

    I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.
    This is what a Labour council -- working in cahoots with a builder (coincidentally a Labour councillor) -- can do for the poor.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55248650

    Note the Labour councillor has put his business "Green Renewable Wales" into liquidation ...
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    To me that is a big move and statement which no doubt puts Macron in his place

    I really hope this is the breakthrough we all need
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223

    I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.

    I thought Labour got all its votes from middle class, metropolitan, liberals - the epitome of the not struggling.

    A mix of both.

    They're certainly led by city metropolitan liberals which is why the left behind have left them now across the red wall and turned to the Tories.

    Historically though that wasn't the case.

    You don't get much more metropolitan and liberal than Tony Blair.
    Indeed. Starmer is the epitome of blue collar by comparison.
  • If we set the whole of the worlds AI capability on the following tasks, which would it solve last:

    1 Chess
    2 Self Driving
    3 Finding a Brexit analogy that is both helpful and both sides agree on
  • We have the Peters Projection map, which shows countries according to their actual size, up in our bathroom.
    I am pretty sure that graphic is rubbish - or at least very poorly executed.

    Norway is 1089 miles long.
    The distance from Plymouth to Tangier in Morocco is 1012 miles.

    Look at that graphic at its end point and it certainly doesn't show that.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.
  • If we set the whole of the worlds AI capability on the following tasks, which would it solve last:

    1 Chess
    2 Self Driving
    3 Finding a Brexit analogy that is both helpful and both sides agree on

    1 happened, basically, in 1997.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    To me that is a big move and statement which no doubt puts Macron in his place

    I really hope this is the breakthrough we all need

    I am not sure it is a big move. It is just not what the UK side has been briefing the UK media. But whether it is or not is beside the point. The ratchet clause as described and condemned by the UK government does not exist.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223

    Drakeford sinking without trace as he announces the disaster that is covid in Wales

    All outdoor attractions across Wales to close

    He has announced that it is inevitable to move to alert 4 after Christmas unless everyone reduces the number of people we see or mix with

    Blaming the public is not a good look

    Yet it's one popular with yourself and the other PB moralisers, who call for a reporter's career to be destroyed because she broke covid rules.

    Funny old world.
    Yes. And often - although not in Big G's case tbf - the very same people who were almost horizontally relaxed about the Dominic "My rules don't apply to me" Cummings affair.

    This cost quite a few posters their integrity for 24 hours the other day. 6 of them in fact.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,942

    I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.
    It has worked for the SNP in Scotland. I remember how grey and grim the West of Scotland was when labour ran everything.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    To me that is a big move and statement which no doubt puts Macron in his place

    I really hope this is the breakthrough we all need

    I am not sure it is a big move. It is just not what the UK side has been briefing the UK media. But whether it is or not is beside the point. The ratchet clause as described and condemned by the UK government does not exist.

    I believe it did but irrespective we should all welcome the clarification and Boris now needs to do the deal
  • I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.

    I thought Labour got all its votes from middle class, metropolitan, liberals - the epitome of the not struggling.

    A mix of both.

    They're certainly led by city metropolitan liberals which is why the left behind have left them now across the red wall and turned to the Tories.

    Historically though that wasn't the case.

    You don't get much more metropolitan and liberal than Tony Blair.

    Yes and he was successfully able to appeal to the struggling and what was the result?

    He screwed over my generation. We got tuition fees, a crappy housing market and plummeting home ownership rates and so on. He left Brown to try and ensure people got a few pennies more than the poverty threshold but then faced nearly 100% marginal tax if they wanted to earn more than that. We got a deficit even during boom times meaning we will pay for the rest of our lives for Browns profligacy. While the metropolitan and elderly wealthy saw their home values shoot up.

    And like those with Stockholm Syndrome still the young and struggling continued to vote Labour. Despite Brown shafting them.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.
    This is what a Labour council -- working in cahoots with a builder (coincidentally a Labour councillor) -- can do for the poor.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55248650

    Note the Labour councillor has put his business "Green Renewable Wales" into liquidation ...
    It was actually dissolved in 2017 having gone into liquidation in June 2016 and its accounts suggest it was not really trading in 2015. This has taken a hell of a long time to come out.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Of course the major problem with climate change is shown by a rather less visited Worldometer page: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

    Despite Covid the world population is edging up to a gain of 80m this year. I do not think we can achieve the kind of reductions in gas emissions etc we need until we reverse this.

    The gain is primarily in Africa at the moment is it not? I believe it is assumed that their birth rates will eventually plateau just like in Europe and China.
    Possibly but if their plateau is too high the planets Eco structure may not survive. We need the planet's population to fall by about 80m a year for the next 50 years or so.
    I don't quite follow this, as it suggests an 'optimum' level of human population, as if 3 billion is fine, but 5 billion is not, when 5 billion with a certain level of development and policy might have less impact than the 3 billion. When is the point reached of too many people? No doubt many would say we are well past that level, but what is the right level?
    We don't know but the evidence suggests it is significantly less than it is now. If we can reduce our carbon footprint sufficiently it may be higher than it would otherwise be but there are a lot of variables, not least the amount of space we take up both for living and feeding ourselves.
    I disagree. Humanity takes up still only a tiny percent of the earth's surface, we over exaggerate our influence still.

    To take an extreme hypothetical if you exclude all the earth's water, deserts (which are actually lived on), mountains and rainforest ... And if the remainer of the earth had England's population density then the world could have a population of about 20 billion people. About three times current figures. Without any change in technologies etc

    What matters is what we as people do and consumer, not so much how many of us there are. If all of us are consuming more than can be handled then that is bad, if we reach neutrality then our influence is cancelled out.


    About 40% of the entire land mass of the earth is used just for farming. Much higher if you exclude barren land.

    Humans are probably causing the 6th mass extinction in the history of life on earth, with 7% of all species already driven to extinction by humans.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,699

    FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.
    Is it a concession or was Boris Johnson misrepresenting it so that the reality looks like a concession?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    On topic.

    2020 is the year anyone paying attention realised WE ARE NOT ALONE.

    I continue to be blown away how little traction has been made by the formal releases from the US Navy, statements by senior US congressmen and private sector advisors, as well as convincing eye witness testimony from Top Gun pilots.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    If we set the whole of the worlds AI capability on the following tasks, which would it solve last:

    1 Chess
    2 Self Driving
    3 Finding a Brexit analogy that is both helpful and both sides agree on

    1 happened, basically, in 1997.
    Yep. It solved Go too a few years back. Many levels more complex.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.
    If they move on arbitration and arbitrator led tariff limits it removes all of the roadblocks to a deal IMO. Conceding that EU funding is state aid is the biggest move from VdL IMO. I think it only leaves fishing rights and I'm sure the EU could come up with some kind of funding arrangement where EU fleets are refunded the cost of purchasing fishing rights in the UK from the central fund or whatever.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.
    Is it a concession or was Boris Johnson misrepresenting it so that the reality looks like a concession?
    Does it matter. The clarification should open the door to a deal
  • In other news.. Gripped by fear of the looming shortages of continental cheese reliably reported here (there's no parmesan anywhere, right?), I've been preparing myself for that terrible day when I have to buy just British. You know what, I think we'll be alright even if the most fromage-free apocalyptic predictions materialise. We've got some really fine British cheeses if you can find them behind the Great Walls of Cheddar our supermarkets stock. I'm particularly enjoying Shepherds Pocket, a Harrogate Blue I bought in Waitrose the other day, and I've discovered Red Leicester is somewhat surprisingly the best cheese I've ever had to pair with a nice claret. Buy British!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2020
    kamski said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Of course the major problem with climate change is shown by a rather less visited Worldometer page: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

    Despite Covid the world population is edging up to a gain of 80m this year. I do not think we can achieve the kind of reductions in gas emissions etc we need until we reverse this.

    The gain is primarily in Africa at the moment is it not? I believe it is assumed that their birth rates will eventually plateau just like in Europe and China.
    Possibly but if their plateau is too high the planets Eco structure may not survive. We need the planet's population to fall by about 80m a year for the next 50 years or so.
    I don't quite follow this, as it suggests an 'optimum' level of human population, as if 3 billion is fine, but 5 billion is not, when 5 billion with a certain level of development and policy might have less impact than the 3 billion. When is the point reached of too many people? No doubt many would say we are well past that level, but what is the right level?
    We don't know but the evidence suggests it is significantly less than it is now. If we can reduce our carbon footprint sufficiently it may be higher than it would otherwise be but there are a lot of variables, not least the amount of space we take up both for living and feeding ourselves.
    I disagree. Humanity takes up still only a tiny percent of the earth's surface, we over exaggerate our influence still.

    To take an extreme hypothetical if you exclude all the earth's water, deserts (which are actually lived on), mountains and rainforest ... And if the remainer of the earth had England's population density then the world could have a population of about 20 billion people. About three times current figures. Without any change in technologies etc

    What matters is what we as people do and consumer, not so much how many of us there are. If all of us are consuming more than can be handled then that is bad, if we reach neutrality then our influence is cancelled out.


    About 40% of the entire land mass of the earth is used just for farming. Much higher if you exclude barren land.

    Humans are probably causing the 6th mass extinction in the history of life on earth, with 7% of all species already driven to extinction by humans.
    Absolutely humans are having an impact nobody denies that but we aren't by any means maximising our usage of the earth.

    And resources extracted per hectare from farming, even sustainably, is not a fixed quantity either. Which is one of the biggest reasons why Malthusian projections fail.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.

    It could well be. Or it could be that we have been spun a line by the UK government. Until we see the draft texts which set out the positions of the respective parties, we won't know. Either way, the ratchet clause that was deemed to be the huge stumbling block to an agreement does not exist. That is good news.

  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Very sad to hear us referred to, rightly, as a 'competitor' when a few years ago we practically ran the thing and it was all tailored to our needs. Quite painful really.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    If we set the whole of the worlds AI capability on the following tasks, which would it solve last:

    1 Chess
    2 Self Driving
    3 Finding a Brexit analogy that is both helpful and both sides agree on

    1 happened, basically, in 1997.
    You can get phone apps that play at grand master level now, it’s quite scary how much computing power has evolved in the last couple of decades.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223

    FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.
    Of course it is. :smile:

    We win. Great deal coming.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Drakeford sinking without trace as he announces the disaster that is covid in Wales

    All outdoor attractions across Wales to close

    He has announced that it is inevitable to move to alert 4 after Christmas unless everyone reduces the number of people we see or mix with

    Blaming the public is not a good look

    Yet it's one popular with yourself and the other PB moralisers, who call for a reporter's career to be destroyed because she broke covid rules.

    Funny old world.
    Kay Burley is not any old reporter

    She fronts Sky and her attacks on covid rule breakers were incessant but then she goes and breaks the same rules she attacks others for. Indeed she has accepted she is off the air for 6 months and will reflect no doubt on her hypocrisy
    Sure, reflecting on her hypocrisy is one thing. Yet you repeatedly called for her dismissal, which is quite another.

    Typical puritanically outrage on PB, by those who of course have never broken a single law nor been hypocritical themselves, angels to a man.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    If we set the whole of the worlds AI capability on the following tasks, which would it solve last:

    1 Chess
    2 Self Driving
    3 Finding a Brexit analogy that is both helpful and both sides agree on

    Sod Churchill and AI, Boris needs to go the full Palmy on this:

    Lord Palmerston used to say of the Schleswig-Holstein question, that only three persons knew the truth about this complicated affair. One was Prince Albert, who unfortunately was dead; the second a Danish statesman, who had gone mad; and the third, he himself, who had forgotten all about it.

    So let it be with Brexit.
  • kinabalu said:

    FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.
    Of course it is. :smile:

    We win. Great deal coming.
    To be honest I just want a deal and everyone wins by moving on in an amicable manner
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.

    It could well be. Or it could be that we have been spun a line by the UK government. Until we see the draft texts which set out the positions of the respective parties, we won't know. Either way, the ratchet clause that was deemed to be the huge stumbling block to an agreement does not exist. That is good news.

    We will see. I'm cynical that they're really moving.

    But if they're truly recognising that EU level spending is every bit as much Aid as national spending is then that is a truly new compromise. A massive one.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    On topic part 2:

    In 2020 we moved a major step towards the 1,000 year lifespan predicted by the likes of Aubrey de Grey, with:

    - mRNA vaccine success opening up the path for bespoke manipulation of the immune system to solve among other things cancer (when combined with rapid / cheap genome sequencing of tumours).
    - Deepmind / Alphafold heralding an era of solely computer devised pharmaceuticals and the promise of solving protein linked disease such as dementia
    - Success in cheaply and quickly increasing telomere length through oxygen treatment, potentially pausing ageing.
  • If we set the whole of the worlds AI capability on the following tasks, which would it solve last:

    1 Chess
    2 Self Driving
    3 Finding a Brexit analogy that is both helpful and both sides agree on

    1 happened, basically, in 1997.
    Being the best at chess is not solving chess.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    kinabalu said:

    Drakeford sinking without trace as he announces the disaster that is covid in Wales

    All outdoor attractions across Wales to close

    He has announced that it is inevitable to move to alert 4 after Christmas unless everyone reduces the number of people we see or mix with

    Blaming the public is not a good look

    Yet it's one popular with yourself and the other PB moralisers, who call for a reporter's career to be destroyed because she broke covid rules.

    Funny old world.
    Yes. And often - although not in Big G's case tbf - the very same people who were almost horizontally relaxed about the Dominic "My rules don't apply to me" Cummings affair.

    This cost quite a few posters their integrity for 24 hours the other day. 6 of them in fact.
    I was remarkably consistent – I thought the Cummings thing was trivial guff (and said so repeatedly on here); ditto Kay Burley et al.

    What isn't trivial is the spinecrawling authoritarian moralising from PBers – asking that a woman's livelihood be removed because she had three mates over for drinks.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.
    Is it a concession or was Boris Johnson misrepresenting it so that the reality looks like a concession?
    Does it matter. The clarification should open the door to a deal
    Agreed. We can let Boris have his little Churchillian moment if he must. The consequences of his actions will affect British citizens for generations to come, when he is long forgotten. I'm happy for Boris to get some political plaudits (however undeserved) if he avoids a catastrophe that was mostly of his making.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Very sad to hear us referred to, rightly, as a 'competitor' when a few years ago we practically ran the thing and it was all tailored to our needs. Quite painful really.
    How many years back are you looking? Before Delors at the very least.

    We haven't ran the thing since before German Unification at the very least.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.

    It could well be. Or it could be that we have been spun a line by the UK government. Until we see the draft texts which set out the positions of the respective parties, we won't know. Either way, the ratchet clause that was deemed to be the huge stumbling block to an agreement does not exist. That is good news.

    It'd possible this was all carefully choreographed between the EU and UK but, honestly, given how little trust and understanding there is between them both how likely do you really think that is?

    It's cock-up not conspiracy.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    To me that is a big move and statement which no doubt puts Macron in his place

    I really hope this is the breakthrough we all need

    I am not sure it is a big move. It is just not what the UK side has been briefing the UK media. But whether it is or not is beside the point. The ratchet clause as described and condemned by the UK government does not exist.

    The UK media have their own very reliable EU and European sources as well too though.

    They're not mugs.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,223

    We have the Peters Projection map, which shows countries according to their actual size, up in our bathroom.
    I am pretty sure that graphic is rubbish - or at least very poorly executed.

    Norway is 1089 miles long.
    The distance from Plymouth to Tangier in Morocco is 1012 miles.

    Look at that graphic at its end point and it certainly doesn't show that.
    So going with your purist idea of what sovereignty means, Richard, are you cool with a deal that allows us diverge from the EU LPF in the future but potentially at the price of increased friction with the SM if it's deemed by a joint EU/UK panel to give us an unfair competitive advantage?

    If we stop being members but sign that are we iyo a sovereign nation again?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    DavidL said:

    I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.
    This is what a Labour council -- working in cahoots with a builder (coincidentally a Labour councillor) -- can do for the poor.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55248650

    Note the Labour councillor has put his business "Green Renewable Wales" into liquidation ...
    It was actually dissolved in 2017 having gone into liquidation in June 2016 and its accounts suggest it was not really trading in 2015. This has taken a hell of a long time to come out.
    Indeed. But nothing will happen, it's Labour's South Walian fiefdoms. I doubt if the Councillor will ever have to resign.

    It says "A complaint has been made to the Public Service Ombusdman in Wales".

    He is someone called Nick Bennett. He was a former member of the Labour Party, and a former business partner of Alun Davies, the Labour AM for Blaenau Gwent. He never finds against Welsh Labour.

    What a system! What a government! What a country!

    Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.
  • Drakeford sinking without trace as he announces the disaster that is covid in Wales

    All outdoor attractions across Wales to close

    He has announced that it is inevitable to move to alert 4 after Christmas unless everyone reduces the number of people we see or mix with

    Blaming the public is not a good look

    Yet it's one popular with yourself and the other PB moralisers, who call for a reporter's career to be destroyed because she broke covid rules.

    Funny old world.
    Kay Burley is not any old reporter

    She fronts Sky and her attacks on covid rule breakers were incessant but then she goes and breaks the same rules she attacks others for. Indeed she has accepted she is off the air for 6 months and will reflect no doubt on her hypocrisy
    Sure, reflecting on her hypocrisy is one thing. Yet you repeatedly called for her dismissal, which is quite another.

    Typical puritanically outrage on PB, by those who of course have never broken a single law nor been hypocritical themselves, angels to a man.
    I do not recognise your last paragraph

    I have made many mistakes in my 76 years and admit so

    However, her hypocrisy was hers and hers alone and it is untenable that she should keep her high profile role which she, by her own admission, compromised

    And by the way I never supported Cummings continuing in post
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.

    It could well be. Or it could be that we have been spun a line by the UK government. Until we see the draft texts which set out the positions of the respective parties, we won't know. Either way, the ratchet clause that was deemed to be the huge stumbling block to an agreement does not exist. That is good news.

    It'd possible this was all carefully choreographed between the EU and UK but, honestly, given how little trust and understanding there is between them both how likely do you really think that is?

    It's cock-up not conspiracy.

    Whatever it is, there is now far less reason not to do a deal. That is what matters. Here's hoping.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    We have the Peters Projection map, which shows countries according to their actual size, up in our bathroom.
    I am pretty sure that graphic is rubbish - or at least very poorly executed.

    Norway is 1089 miles long.
    The distance from Plymouth to Tangier in Morocco is 1012 miles.

    And don't forget their detective series. God, they're long.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Drakeford sinking without trace as he announces the disaster that is covid in Wales

    All outdoor attractions across Wales to close

    He has announced that it is inevitable to move to alert 4 after Christmas unless everyone reduces the number of people we see or mix with

    Blaming the public is not a good look

    Yet it's one popular with yourself and the other PB moralisers, who call for a reporter's career to be destroyed because she broke covid rules.

    Funny old world.
    Kay Burley is not any old reporter

    She fronts Sky and her attacks on covid rule breakers were incessant but then she goes and breaks the same rules she attacks others for. Indeed she has accepted she is off the air for 6 months and will reflect no doubt on her hypocrisy
    Sure, reflecting on her hypocrisy is one thing. Yet you repeatedly called for her dismissal, which is quite another.

    Typical puritanically outrage on PB, by those who of course have never broken a single law nor been hypocritical themselves, angels to a man.
    I defended both Cummings and Ferrier on this blog.

    I defend Burley -- but the greasy and hypocritical journalists are the very ones who have been the shrillest in calling for witch-burnings.

    She is on full pay of 500k a year, for God's sake. And she has now fucked off on a long safari to Africa.

    I am not that worried about her, tbh.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Very sad to hear us referred to, rightly, as a 'competitor' when a few years ago we practically ran the thing and it was all tailored to our needs. Quite painful really.
    How many years back are you looking? Before Delors at the very least.

    We haven't ran the thing since before German Unification at the very least.
    You never "ran that thing" on your own, but you contributed a lot. The single market got going after German reunification, you were the main driving force behind the eastern extension, declining migration restrictions.
  • I am hopeful that government focus on Blyth will lead (central funding permitting) to a Tyne and Wear Metro extension to the town and to South Northumberland generally.

    So is HMG good for the NE
    I will judge them on the results. The NE has been ignored by governments of all colours for too long.
    I genuinely expect that to change throughout the red wall seats
    Indeed.

    Labour get their votes from those who are struggling, so it is in their interests to ensure people are struggling.

    Tories get their votes from people who are more secure, so it is in their interests to ensure people are secure.

    If you want things to change for the better vote Tory.
    It has worked for the SNP in Scotland. I remember how grey and grim the West of Scotland was when labour ran everything.
    Indeed.

    Labour are a party that specialise in failure and misery. Keeping the serfs just about managing and voting for them is their purpose.

    The Tories believe in success. Blair claimed to and certainly achieved it for himself. The SNP believe in making a success out of Scotland - they believe too much too in blaming the English, a bit more concentration on making a success out of Scotland and a bit less England bashing wouldn't go amiss. But Scotland is much better off in the SNPs hands than Labours.

    Hopefully the red wall finds out they're better off with the Tories than Labour too.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Very sad to hear us referred to, rightly, as a 'competitor' when a few years ago we practically ran the thing and it was all tailored to our needs. Quite painful really.
    How many years back are you looking? Before Delors at the very least.

    We haven't ran the thing since before German Unification at the very least.
    Bismarck's time?!
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    To me that is a big move and statement which no doubt puts Macron in his place

    I really hope this is the breakthrough we all need

    I am not sure it is a big move. It is just not what the UK side has been briefing the UK media. But whether it is or not is beside the point. The ratchet clause as described and condemned by the UK government does not exist.

    The UK media have their own very reliable EU and European sources as well too though.

    They're not mugs.

    I think one of the problems with coverage on both sides is that the media does not have strong links into the other side. They get their feeds from their own side largely. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    To me that is a big move and statement which no doubt puts Macron in his place

    I really hope this is the breakthrough we all need

    I am not sure it is a big move. It is just not what the UK side has been briefing the UK media. But whether it is or not is beside the point. The ratchet clause as described and condemned by the UK government does not exist.

    The UK media have their own very reliable EU and European sources as well too though.

    They're not mugs.
    Citation needed, I'm afraid.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755
    edited December 2020

    We have the Peters Projection map, which shows countries according to their actual size, up in our bathroom.
    I am pretty sure that graphic is rubbish - or at least very poorly executed.

    Norway is 1089 miles long.
    The distance from Plymouth to Tangier in Morocco is 1012 miles.

    Look at that graphic at its end point and it certainly doesn't show that.
    I can't tell whether you're joking - apologies if so!

    If you're not, did you not also notice that the Canada-US border becomes a bit harder to cross? Shrinking countries about their centres to their true size while maintaining Mercator projections of centres further exaggerates the distances between them at higher latitudes (the Plymouth-Tangiers distance is very different to the length of Norway in the start, Mercator, projection too).

    The best way to look at a map of the world is on a globe.
  • We have the Peters Projection map, which shows countries according to their actual size, up in our bathroom.
    Unfortunately that projection massively distorts shapes. Use the Mollweide projection instead, it's much better!
    Not sure the shape distortion is a huge problem, I'm not going to use it for navigational purposes. Getting the relative size right is more important I think. Doesn't the Mollweide projection distort some countries' shapes even more in order to distort others' less?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    kinabalu said:

    Drakeford sinking without trace as he announces the disaster that is covid in Wales

    All outdoor attractions across Wales to close

    He has announced that it is inevitable to move to alert 4 after Christmas unless everyone reduces the number of people we see or mix with

    Blaming the public is not a good look

    Yet it's one popular with yourself and the other PB moralisers, who call for a reporter's career to be destroyed because she broke covid rules.

    Funny old world.
    Yes. And often - although not in Big G's case tbf - the very same people who were almost horizontally relaxed about the Dominic "My rules don't apply to me" Cummings affair.

    This cost quite a few posters their integrity for 24 hours the other day. 6 of them in fact.
    I was remarkably consistent – I thought the Cummings thing was trivial guff (and said so repeatedly on here); ditto Kay Burley et al.

    What isn't trivial is the spinecrawling authoritarian moralising from PBers – asking that a woman's livelihood be removed because she had three mates over for drinks.
    Except that she enthusiastically participated in exactly that kind of spine-crawling authoritarian moralizing, demanding that other people's livelihoods be removed for similarly trivial offences. That she's finally getting a taste of her own medicine is nothing more than natural justice.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    To me that is a big move and statement which no doubt puts Macron in his place

    I really hope this is the breakthrough we all need

    I am not sure it is a big move. It is just not what the UK side has been briefing the UK media. But whether it is or not is beside the point. The ratchet clause as described and condemned by the UK government does not exist.

    The UK media have their own very reliable EU and European sources as well too though.

    They're not mugs.
    Not mugs, but some of them are liars.
    The BBC piece on the ratchet clause I posted above is accurate, I think.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited December 2020
    Talking of maps, I prefer the "Liquid Resize" projection.
  • FWIW - and I'm giving a massive hostage to fortune here - in contrast to most of the Twitterati, I think that the chances of getting a deal in the next couple of days have improved quite a lot, and it will probably happen.

    My reasoning is that the excuses Boris is giving for not signing up are so fantastical that they won't serve as an excuse for No Deal. Today he's repeated this nonsense:

    Unfortunately at the moment, as you know, there are two key things where we just can’t seem to make progress and that’s this kind of ratchet clause they’ve got in to keep the UK locked in to whatever they want to do in terms of legislation, which obviously doesn’t work.

    We know that is nonsense, he knows it is nonsense, so why is he saying it? If it's to give himself an excuse to 'walk away' and blame the EU, then it's a jolly feeble one. What happens when the EU publish their proposed text?

    If Boris really wants an excuse to walk out, he could use fish, which no-one understands and where the EU position can easily be portrayed as unreasonable.

    So it looks to me as though he's erecting a massive straw dragon which he can heroically slay.

    Fingers crossed that I'm right!

    I think you are probably right. Although it is possible that Johnson simply doesn't understand the EU's position on LPF.

    It's been spelled out very clearly today by Ursula von der Leyen.
    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1337346409054474253

    Yes, it's a huge concession.

    It could well be. Or it could be that we have been spun a line by the UK government. Until we see the draft texts which set out the positions of the respective parties, we won't know. Either way, the ratchet clause that was deemed to be the huge stumbling block to an agreement does not exist. That is good news.

    It'd possible this was all carefully choreographed between the EU and UK but, honestly, given how little trust and understanding there is between them both how likely do you really think that is?

    It's cock-up not conspiracy.

    Whatever it is, there is now far less reason not to do a deal. That is what matters. Here's hoping.

    Agreed.
This discussion has been closed.