No Platform For Mad Men. Lockdown Sceptics Are Getting Far Too Much Airtime – politicalbetting.com

Gallowgate said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

Who cares?

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

IanB2 said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde

English cooking, please (not British). The Welsh cuisine is quite, quite distinct.

Although this talk of fish had become bound up in EU-theocracy, there is something yet to be explained about the decline of fish in our diet.

I live a few miles from the coast in N. Wales. All the towns & villages In Cardigan Bay once had fishing boats that provided abundant fish for the population.

Herrings were "the silver darlings". They were the loved staple dish of the poor.

Now, in these villages & towns, it is almost impossible to buy fish at all. There are hardly any fishmongers (I don't know of one within 60 miles). There are no fishing boats that catch the fish in Cardigan Bay, certainly northward of Aberystwyth. There are boats that take tourists to see the dolphins and there are boats to take tourists to the small islands in the Bay. There are even boats that take tourists out to fish.

But, there are no fishing boats.

Why did this happen? I don't really believe that there is no demand. I personally would like to buy more fish.

We seem (English speakers?) to have a phobia of fish. I know some people who won’t eat fish at all. In NZ, we are surrounded by astonishingly plentiful fishing stocks but fishmongers are few and very largely we leave more adventurous fish-eating to Asian immigrants.

Yet, go to Brittany or Northern Spain. Every village has its fish stall, or fish restaurants.

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy

There's a special agency for it, although the coastguard and RN vessels might be involved as well. None of them have very many ships available for effective enforcement, though, given the huge amount and extent of waters involved. The agency has bought 2 (two, as in one and then another) extra vessels in preparation for Brexit.

Plenty of kippers around the Kent coast who can no doubt be recruited to man the coastguard fishing enforcement vessels

Ah, we’re at the Volkssturm stage of Brexit I see. We know how that turned out...

More the Home Guard.

And we know how that turned out.



(Into one of our most loved sitcoms.)

A shyte remake, nostalgia ridden, backward looking and unloved is how it turned out.

But enough of the next Scottish independence campaign.....

The one that your leader is running scared from?

The one the leader of the United Kingdom is staying resolute on.

That the leader of the SNP can so easily run away from her Party's "once in a generation" pledge tells you all you need to know.

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy

There's a special agency for it, although the coastguard and RN vessels might be involved as well. None of them have very many ships available for effective enforcement, though, given the huge amount and extent of waters involved. The agency has bought 2 (two, as in one and then another) extra vessels in preparation for Brexit.

Plenty of kippers around the Kent coast who can no doubt be recruited to man the coastguard fishing enforcement vessels

Ah, we’re at the Volkssturm stage of Brexit I see. We know how that turned out...

More the Home Guard.

And we know how that turned out.



(Into one of our most loved sitcoms.)

A shyte remake, nostalgia ridden, backward looking and unloved is how it turned out.

But enough of the next Scottish independence campaign.....

The one that your leader is running scared from?

The one the leader of the United Kingdom is staying resolute on.

That the leader of the SNP can so easily run away from her Party's "once in a generation" pledge tells you all you need to know.

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

IanB2 said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde

English cooking, please (not British). The Welsh cuisine is quite, quite distinct.

Although this talk of fish had become bound up in EU-theocracy, there is something yet to be explained about the decline of fish in our diet.

I live a few miles from the coast in N. Wales. All the towns & villages In Cardigan Bay once had fishing boats that provided abundant fish for the population.

Herrings were "the silver darlings". They were the loved staple dish of the poor.

Now, in these villages & towns, it is almost impossible to buy fish at all. There are hardly any fishmongers (I don't know of one within 60 miles). There are no fishing boats that catch the fish in Cardigan Bay, certainly northward of Aberystwyth. There are boats that take tourists to see the dolphins and there are boats to take tourists to the small islands in the Bay. There are even boats that take tourists out to fish.

But, there are no fishing boats.

Why did this happen? I don't really believe that there is no demand. I personally would like to buy more fish.

We seem (English speakers?) to have a phobia of fish. I know some people who won’t eat fish at all. In NZ, we are surrounded by astonishingly plentiful fishing stocks but fishmongers are few and very largely we leave more adventurous fish-eating to Asian immigrants.

Yet, go to Brittany or Northern Spain. Every village has its fish stall, or fish restaurants.

Fysics_Teacher said:

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

IanB2 said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde

English cooking, please (not British). The Welsh cuisine is quite, quite distinct.

Although this talk of fish had become bound up in EU-theocracy, there is something yet to be explained about the decline of fish in our diet.

I live a few miles from the coast in N. Wales. All the towns & villages In Cardigan Bay once had fishing boats that provided abundant fish for the population.

Herrings were "the silver darlings". They were the loved staple dish of the poor.

Now, in these villages & towns, it is almost impossible to buy fish at all. There are hardly any fishmongers (I don't know of one within 60 miles). There are no fishing boats that catch the fish in Cardigan Bay, certainly northward of Aberystwyth. There are boats that take tourists to see the dolphins and there are boats to take tourists to the small islands in the Bay. There are even boats that take tourists out to fish.

But, there are no fishing boats.

Why did this happen? I don't really believe that there is no demand. I personally would like to buy more fish.

We seem (English speakers?) to have a phobia of fish. I know some people who won’t eat fish at all. In NZ, we are surrounded by astonishingly plentiful fishing stocks but fishmongers are few and very largely we leave more adventurous fish-eating to Asian immigrants.

Yet, go to Brittany or Northern Spain. Every village has its fish stall, or fish restaurants.

It might be a religious thing: in catholic countries you eat fish on Fridays and in Lent as it doesn't count as meat, so in protestant countries perhaps people avoided fish to demonstrate that they were not catholic?

This is wild speculation on my part btw: I'd be amazed if it turned out to be the actual reason...

gealbhan said:

Big betting post from me.

Don’t bet on the democrats Senators in Georgia.

1. OGH says the only correct poll is the one you like the look of. Does it also influence you betting? On average polls show Dems only narrowly ahead 2 points at best with lots of independents saying don’t know.

2. Trump did well in the presidential election,

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

In civvy street they have around five crews per airframe, with FTLs of 100hr/month and 900hr/year.

Forgot to mention that NATO currency specs are 180 hours/year. I flew the F/A-2 for six years and racked up just over 1,000 hours in total.

kle4 said:

If I were in charge I'd always make sure the smallest vessels had the most ridiculously tough seeming names. Like even simple Zodiac kind of vessel would be the HMS Colossos or HMS Dreadmonger

Theuniondivvie said:

OldKingCole said:

Gallowgate said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

Who cares?

I think Malc meant 'perfected' in Scotland!

I think the sound of massed pipes can fairly be said to have been invented in/by Scotland.
I was also going to add the word skirl but I find it's likely of old Norse origin.

Carnyx said:

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

Dura_Ace said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy

All waters? How many ships will that take?

The RN has a surfeit of OPVs for fisheries enforcement as delays to the T26 program meant the MoD had to order a batch of River Class vessels it didn't need to keep BAE happy.

RN and coastguard patrols also have migrants in dinghies and Russian subs tapping our Channel cables to worry about, of course. And drug smuggling.

They certainly seem to have a knack of choosing names for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_patrol_vessels_of_the_Royal_Navy

Biter and Smiter - Elven Swords out of the Hobbit?
Blazer and Dasher - Aren't those Rudolf's chums?

"Bird Class"
"Small Bird Class" - budget cut?

It gets better as it goes back in time.

Old C18/C19 sloops and the like I think - though some of those names were, in WW2, used for escort carriers built on the cheap in the emergency. HMS Dasher and Avenger infamously blew up in incidents caused by petrol vapour accumulation.

Theuniondivvie said:

OldKingCole said:

Gallowgate said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

Who cares?

I think Malc meant 'perfected' in Scotland!

I think the sound of massed pipes can fairly be said to have been invented in/by Scotland.
I was also going to add the word skirl but I find that it's likely of old Norse origin.

gealbhan said:

Big betting post from me.

Don’t bet on the democrats Senators in Georgia.

1. OGH says the only correct poll is the one you like the look of. Does it also influence you betting? On average polls show Dems only narrowly ahead 2 points at best with lots of independents saying don’t know.

2. Trump did well in the presidential election, second biggest vote share in history. Trump got millions of unlikely voters to the polls and while they were there, they voted a straight Republican ticket. This is because he is doing something that works. He painted Hilary Clinton as crooked and useless, and it works. the election we just had, has to be classed as a Democrat defeat, right down ticket (apart from headline wh) the the GOP win came in a high-turnout presidential election year, when Democrats normally do well. This is because the Democrats have successfully been painted as far too left, controlled by the squad, every candidate defund the police, this is how every candidate is now seen.

3. Just like in November election, if polls show dem candidates ahead, sometimes big margins, but they end up losing, then surely Witches have been burnt at the stake for less?

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Fysics_Teacher said:

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

IanB2 said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde

English cooking, please (not British). The Welsh cuisine is quite, quite distinct.

Although this talk of fish had become bound up in EU-theocracy, there is something yet to be explained about the decline of fish in our diet.

I live a few miles from the coast in N. Wales. All the towns & villages In Cardigan Bay once had fishing boats that provided abundant fish for the population.

Herrings were "the silver darlings". They were the loved staple dish of the poor.

Now, in these villages & towns, it is almost impossible to buy fish at all. There are hardly any fishmongers (I don't know of one within 60 miles). There are no fishing boats that catch the fish in Cardigan Bay, certainly northward of Aberystwyth. There are boats that take tourists to see the dolphins and there are boats to take tourists to the small islands in the Bay. There are even boats that take tourists out to fish.

But, there are no fishing boats.

Why did this happen? I don't really believe that there is no demand. I personally would like to buy more fish.

We seem (English speakers?) to have a phobia of fish. I know some people who won’t eat fish at all. In NZ, we are surrounded by astonishingly plentiful fishing stocks but fishmongers are few and very largely we leave more adventurous fish-eating to Asian immigrants.

Yet, go to Brittany or Northern Spain. Every village has its fish stall, or fish restaurants.

It might be a religious thing: in catholic countries you eat fish on Fridays and in Lent as it doesn't count as meat, so in protestant countries perhaps people avoided fish to demonstrate that they were not catholic?

This is wild speculation on my part btw: I'd be amazed if it turned out to be the actual reason...

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

“The Bagpipe is one of the most ancient instruments in the world, its history spans back to the beginnings of civilization. Contrary to some people’s belief, the Bagpipes were not first heard in Scotland. No one knows for certain where the history of the Bagpipe began. It is thought that the first Pipe came from ancient Egypt, which had just a single drone and a chanter.”

- taken from the website of Scotia Pipers, who can be contacted for bookings in Scotland on a Kirkcaldy area code at your leisure http://www.scotiapipers.co.uk/bagpipe-history/ but they are all English to a man I am sure.

WOW , you have really convinced me, away and put your union jack pants back on.

kle4 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

OldKingCole said:

Gallowgate said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

Who cares?

I think Malc meant 'perfected' in Scotland!

I think the sound of massed pipes can fairly be said to have been invented in/by Scotland.
I was also going to add the word skirl but I find it's likely of old Norse origin.

But the instrument? It wouldn't deprive Scotland of its association with them if it was the case that the instrument itself originally came from elsewhere, so I don't know what the fuss is about if they weren't.

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Negotiation is about give and take not getting everything you ask for. No other country has got everything it wanted from the EU. We are not exceptional. There is no cake and eat it option.

Because all the evidence from independent sources suggests we are right and you are wrong. Only when that is proved can this country start healing from the sickness your kind has led it to. People will die because of No Deal. Own it.

Tres said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy

There's a special agency for it, although the coastguard and RN vessels might be involved as well. None of them have very many ships available for effective enforcement, though, given the huge amount and extent of waters involved. The agency has bought 2 (two, as in one and then another) extra vessels in preparation for Brexit.

Plenty of kippers around the Kent coast who can no doubt be recruited to man the coastguard fishing enforcement vessels

Ah, we’re at the Volkssturm stage of Brexit I see. We know how that turned out...

More the Home Guard.

And we know how that turned out.



(Into one of our most loved sitcoms.)

A shyte remake, nostalgia ridden, backward looking and unloved is how it turned out.

But enough of the next Scottish independence campaign.....

The one that your leader is running scared from?

The one the leader of the United Kingdom is staying resolute on.

That the leader of the SNP can so easily run away from her Party's "once in a generation" pledge tells you all you need to know.

Fake news, there was never a pledge from the SNP. More Johnsonian bullshit.

Philip_Thompson said:

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Negotiation is about give and take not getting everything you ask for. No other country has got everything it wanted from the EU. We are not exceptional. There is no cake and eat it option.

Because all the evidence from independent sources suggests we are right and you are wrong. Only when that is proved can this country start healing from the sickness your kind has led it to. People will die because of No Deal. Own it.

I'm prepared to "own it". Let's get on with it and see. It's time to open the box and see if the Brexit No Deal cat is alive or dead.

Are you prepared to "own it" if I'm right? Are you prepared for the country to have the opportunity to find out if I and others like me are right?

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Negotiation is about give and take not getting everything you ask for. No other country has got everything it wanted from the EU. We are not exceptional. There is no cake and eat it option.

Because all the evidence from independent sources suggests we are right and you are wrong. Only when that is proved can this country start healing from the sickness your kind has led it to. People will die because of No Deal. Own it.

I'm prepared to "own it". Let's get on with it and see. It's time to open the box and see if the Brexit No Deal cat is alive or dead.

Are you prepared to "own it" if I'm right? Are you prepared for the country to have the opportunity to find out if I and others like me are right?

Are you prepared to "own it" in any other sense than an unidentified troll on the Internet, though? If so, how?

YBarddCwsc said:

Gardenwalker said:

Would you eat more herring?

Like you said, herring seems to have been the main fish stock for Wales.

I admire what the Scandinavians do with it.

I like herring. It is possible to buy some fresh fish in North Wales (trout, sewin), but it is extremely difficult to buy fresh herring.

I am pretty sure the last time I ate freshly grilled herring was a decade ago in a specialized fish restaurant.

Just checking the Welsh supermarket websites seems to indicate that the only herring product available is a 2 kg bag of Go-Cat Tuna, Herring and Vegetable Pellets.

Philip_Thompson said:

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Negotiation is about give and take not getting everything you ask for. No other country has got everything it wanted from the EU. We are not exceptional. There is no cake and eat it option.

Because all the evidence from independent sources suggests we are right and you are wrong. Only when that is proved can this country start healing from the sickness your kind has led it to. People will die because of No Deal. Own it.

I'm prepared to "own it". Let's get on with it and see. It's time to open the box and see if the Brexit No Deal cat is alive or dead.

Are you prepared to "own it" if I'm right? Are you prepared for the country to have the opportunity to find out if I and others like me are right?

Are you prepared to "own it" in any other sense than an unidentified troll on the Internet, though? If so, how?

I'm not a troll, I'm just a person who enjoys discussing politics same as everyone else here.

I'm young, I'm sure my job opportunities for forthcoming decades will be affected if I'm wrong. We will see.

alex_ said:

I suspect that one of the real reasons for the likely utter failure of the UK-EU talks (and probably the conclusions that the EU will draw in the post-mortem) is that the EU fundamentally made from the start is that they thought they were engaging in a conventional trade negotiation where both sides would prioritise the most important things to them for trade purposes.

They probably just didn't realise that the whole thing might get blown up over bl**dy fish, which is an absolutely minute part of the UK economy. If they had actually realised how important this was, it would have probably been sorted out months ago (and as somebody suggested, with the French fisherman being bought off). Instead it was allowed to fester unaddressed, with the EU probably thinking that it was just being left there as a suitable 'concession' that could be offered up at a future date (because it was of little fundamental economic importance to a deal).

But now it sits there, front and centre of the hold up, neither side can give way on it. It's too late to make a concession on it, and so the whole thing is stuffed. At hugely damaging economic cost to the potential economic effect of either side giving way.

Carnyx said:

malcolmg said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Gardenwalker said:

Would you eat more herring?

Like you said, herring seems to have been the main fish stock for Wales.

I admire what the Scandinavians do with it.

I like herring. It is possible to buy some fresh fish in North Wales (trout, sewin), but it is extremely difficult to buy fresh herring.

I am pretty sure the last time I ate freshly grilled herring was a decade ago in a specialized fish restaurant.

Just checking the Welsh supermarket websites seems to indicate that the only herring product available is a 2 kg bag of Go-Cat Tuna, Herring and Vegetable Pellets.

Fresh herring cooked in oatmeal with new ayrshire tatties was a delicacy when I was younger.

Still is with us ...

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Negotiation is about give and take not getting everything you ask for. No other country has got everything it wanted from the EU. We are not exceptional. There is no cake and eat it option.

Because all the evidence from independent sources suggests we are right and you are wrong. Only when that is proved can this country start healing from the sickness your kind has led it to. People will die because of No Deal. Own it.

I'm prepared to "own it". Let's get on with it and see. It's time to open the box and see if the Brexit No Deal cat is alive or dead.

Are you prepared to "own it" if I'm right? Are you prepared for the country to have the opportunity to find out if I and others like me are right?

Are you prepared to "own it" in any other sense than an unidentified troll on the Internet, though? If so, how?

I'm not a troll, I'm just a person who enjoys discussing politics same as everyone else here.

I'm young, I'm sure my job opportunities for forthcoming decades will be affected if I'm wrong. We will see.

In other words, all this crap about "owning it" amounts to nothing more than that you're going to suffer the same consequences as the rest of us?

We're all "owning it" in that sense ...

Pulpstar said:

Alistair said:

gealbhan said:

Big betting post from me.

Don’t bet on the democrats Senators in Georgia.

1. OGH says the only correct poll is the one you like the look of. Does it also influence you betting? On average polls show Dems only narrowly ahead 2 points at best with lots of independents saying don’t know.

2. Trump did well in the presidential election,

He got a lower vote share than Romney

And this is a Senate election. As people are wont of saying, Trump is not on the ballot.

Democrats might have the higher propensity voters....

https://twitter.com/justincbzz/status/1334893903607197697

Philip_Thompson said:

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Negotiation is about give and take not getting everything you ask for. No other country has got everything it wanted from the EU. We are not exceptional. There is no cake and eat it option.

Because all the evidence from independent sources suggests we are right and you are wrong. Only when that is proved can this country start healing from the sickness your kind has led it to. People will die because of No Deal. Own it.

I'm prepared to "own it". Let's get on with it and see. It's time to open the box and see if the Brexit No Deal cat is alive or dead.

Are you prepared to "own it" if I'm right? Are you prepared for the country to have the opportunity to find out if I and others like me are right?

Are you prepared to "own it" in any other sense than an unidentified troll on the Internet, though? If so, how?

I'm not a troll, I'm just a person who enjoys discussing politics same as everyone else here.

I'm young, I'm sure my job opportunities for forthcoming decades will be affected if I'm wrong. We will see.

In other words, all this crap about "owning it" amounts to nothing more than that you're going to suffer the same consequences as the rest of us?

We're all "owning it" in that sense ...

Yes it is called democracy. Is that concept so alien to you?

When we integrated into the EU for decades against the wishes of many in this nation, when the Lisbon Treaty was passed without a referendum against the wishes of most of the country and in violation of the then governments manifesto commitment not to ratify without one ... We all collectively owned it then too.

When my side next loses a vote then we will collectively have to accept that too. But we won this one so suck it up, buttercup.

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

“The Bagpipe is one of the most ancient instruments in the world, its history spans back to the beginnings of civilization. Contrary to some people’s belief, the Bagpipes were not first heard in Scotland. No one knows for certain where the history of the Bagpipe began. It is thought that the first Pipe came from ancient Egypt, which had just a single drone and a chanter.”

- taken from the website of Scotia Pipers, who can be contacted for bookings in Scotland on a Kirkcaldy area code at your leisure http://www.scotiapipers.co.uk/bagpipe-history/ but they are all English to a man I am sure.

WOW , you have really convinced me, away and put your union jack pants back on.

You’re a very angry man. I’m sorry that something causes you so much pain. If you ever need to talk DM me. Life doesn’t have to have this much hate. I’m not a unionist either so you don’t have to worry about that.

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Gardenwalker said:

YBarddCwsc said:

IanB2 said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde

English cooking, please (not British). The Welsh cuisine is quite, quite distinct.

Although this talk of fish had become bound up in EU-theocracy, there is something yet to be explained about the decline of fish in our diet.

I live a few miles from the coast in N. Wales. All the towns & villages In Cardigan Bay once had fishing boats that provided abundant fish for the population.

Herrings were "the silver darlings". They were the loved staple dish of the poor.

Now, in these villages & towns, it is almost impossible to buy fish at all. There are hardly any fishmongers (I don't know of one within 60 miles). There are no fishing boats that catch the fish in Cardigan Bay, certainly northward of Aberystwyth. There are boats that take tourists to see the dolphins and there are boats to take tourists to the small islands in the Bay. There are even boats that take tourists out to fish.

But, there are no fishing boats.

Why did this happen? I don't really believe that there is no demand. I personally would like to buy more fish.

We seem (English speakers?) to have a phobia of fish. I know some people who won’t eat fish at all. In NZ, we are surrounded by astonishingly plentiful fishing stocks but fishmongers are few and very largely we leave more adventurous fish-eating to Asian immigrants.

Yet, go to Brittany or Northern Spain. Every village has its fish stall, or fish restaurants.

I once ordered (or rather it was ordered for me) a sea stew in Korea.

Whatever slunk, crept, cuttled, or jellied across the Korean sea waters was in that stew.

I was not able to eat more than a mouthful. But I would eat more fish, if I could.

Would you eat more herring?

Like you said, herring seems to have been the main fish stock for Wales.

I admire what the Scandinavians do with it.

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

“The Bagpipe is one of the most ancient instruments in the world, its history spans back to the beginnings of civilization. Contrary to some people’s belief, the Bagpipes were not first heard in Scotland. No one knows for certain where the history of the Bagpipe began. It is thought that the first Pipe came from ancient Egypt, which had just a single drone and a chanter.”

- taken from the website of Scotia Pipers, who can be contacted for bookings in Scotland on a Kirkcaldy area code at your leisure http://www.scotiapipers.co.uk/bagpipe-history/ but they are all English to a man I am sure.

WOW , you have really convinced me, away and put your union jack pants back on.

You’re a very angry man. I’m sorry that something causes you so much pain. If you ever need to talk DM me. Life doesn’t have to have this much hate. I’m not a unionist either so you don’t have to worry about that.

I am very happy thank you, be much happier once we are independent mind you. Meanwhile I just have to suffer fact that we are a colony and at the mercy of England's choices and the corrupt government it elects. That does annoy me at times.

Carnyx said:

malcolmg said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Gardenwalker said:

Would you eat more herring?

Like you said, herring seems to have been the main fish stock for Wales.

I admire what the Scandinavians do with it.

I like herring. It is possible to buy some fresh fish in North Wales (trout, sewin), but it is extremely difficult to buy fresh herring.

I am pretty sure the last time I ate freshly grilled herring was a decade ago in a specialized fish restaurant.

Just checking the Welsh supermarket websites seems to indicate that the only herring product available is a 2 kg bag of Go-Cat Tuna, Herring and Vegetable Pellets.

Fresh herring cooked in oatmeal with new ayrshire tatties was a delicacy when I was younger.

Still is with us ...

Cyclefree said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Scott_xP said:

How is this going to be spun to Blue Wall voters and the sort of Kippers who holiday in Spain for the English fry ups?

twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1335529152896700418

They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.

So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...

They can all holiday at home.

Just as well we will have a thriving hospitality sector well supported by the government.

Oh .......😟

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

kle4 said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

“The Bagpipe is one of the most ancient instruments in the world, its history spans back to the beginnings of civilization. Contrary to some people’s belief, the Bagpipes were not first heard in Scotland. No one knows for certain where the history of the Bagpipe began. It is thought that the first Pipe came from ancient Egypt, which had just a single drone and a chanter.”

- taken from the website of Scotia Pipers, who can be contacted for bookings in Scotland on a Kirkcaldy area code at your leisure http://www.scotiapipers.co.uk/bagpipe-history/ but they are all English to a man I am sure.

WOW , you have really convinced me, away and put your union jack pants back on.

What would convince you? Honest question, I have not studied the history of bagpipes so have no idea where they were invented, but on what do you base your belief that they were invented in Scotland? You are responding very intensely about it so you cannot say it is unimportant to you. I mean, no one disputes they are associated with Scotland more than anywhere else. The Chinese claim to have invented golf, but that doesn't mean anything about which places it is associated with more.

Without going back to the end of time, if you asked anyone or looked anywhere you would see it is associated with Scotland and has been for a very very long time. I have never seen anything similar other than a few historical mentions that something similar may have been used in some form in A , B or C.
Bagpipes as they are today are totally Scottish , fact that you can have some variations is neither her nor there.
My beef is the fact that some sections of England can never bear to see anything positive about Scotland no matter what it is, we get fed it constantly in the state propaganda media unit and the London owned newspapers.
Rant over I am going back to being a happy chappie again.

There was also a reference to an American cultural icon in my post. My family is American You do need to dial it in for your own health.

Philip_Thompson said:

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Negotiation is about give and take not getting everything you ask for. No other country has got everything it wanted from the EU. We are not exceptional. There is no cake and eat it option.

Because all the evidence from independent sources suggests we are right and you are wrong. Only when that is proved can this country start healing from the sickness your kind has led it to. People will die because of No Deal. Own it.

I'm prepared to "own it". Let's get on with it and see. It's time to open the box and see if the Brexit No Deal cat is alive or dead.

Are you prepared to "own it" if I'm right? Are you prepared for the country to have the opportunity to find out if I and others like me are right?

Are you prepared to "own it" in any other sense than an unidentified troll on the Internet, though? If so, how?

I'm not a troll, I'm just a person who enjoys discussing politics same as everyone else here.

I'm young, I'm sure my job opportunities for forthcoming decades will be affected if I'm wrong. We will see.

In other words, all this crap about "owning it" amounts to nothing more than that you're going to suffer the same consequences as the rest of us?

We're all "owning it" in that sense ...

Yes it is called democracy. Is that concept so alien to you?

When we integrated into the EU for decades against the wishes of many in this nation, when the Lisbon Treaty was passed without a referendum against the wishes of most of the country and in violation of the then governments manifesto commitment not to ratify without one ... We all collectively owned it then too.

When my side next loses a vote then we will collectively have to accept that too. But we won this one so suck it up, buttercup.

Gardenwalker said:

I don’t really buy this take.
But I don’t buy Shipman’s either.

https://twitter.com/guy_stallard/status/1335534811386097664?s=21

Philip_Thompson said:

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Negotiation is about give and take not getting everything you ask for. No other country has got everything it wanted from the EU. We are not exceptional. There is no cake and eat it option.

Because all the evidence from independent sources suggests we are right and you are wrong. Only when that is proved can this country start healing from the sickness your kind has led it to. People will die because of No Deal. Own it.

I'm prepared to "own it". Let's get on with it and see. It's time to open the box and see if the Brexit No Deal cat is alive or dead.

Are you prepared to "own it" if I'm right? Are you prepared for the country to have the opportunity to find out if I and others like me are right?

Are you prepared to "own it" in any other sense than an unidentified troll on the Internet, though? If so, how?

I'm not a troll, I'm just a person who enjoys discussing politics same as everyone else here.

I'm young, I'm sure my job opportunities for forthcoming decades will be affected if I'm wrong. We will see.

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

kle4 said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

DougSeal said:

YBarddCwsc said:

WhisperingOracle said:

IanB2 said:

According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[

Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.

Really? Culinary fusion ?

I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.

Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?

I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that

It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.

Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland

“The Bagpipe is one of the most ancient instruments in the world, its history spans back to the beginnings of civilization. Contrary to some people’s belief, the Bagpipes were not first heard in Scotland. No one knows for certain where the history of the Bagpipe began. It is thought that the first Pipe came from ancient Egypt, which had just a single drone and a chanter.”

- taken from the website of Scotia Pipers, who can be contacted for bookings in Scotland on a Kirkcaldy area code at your leisure http://www.scotiapipers.co.uk/bagpipe-history/ but they are all English to a man I am sure.

WOW , you have really convinced me, away and put your union jack pants back on.

What would convince you? Honest question, I have not studied the history of bagpipes so have no idea where they were invented, but on what do you base your belief that they were invented in Scotland? You are responding very intensely about it so you cannot say it is unimportant to you. I mean, no one disputes they are associated with Scotland more than anywhere else. The Chinese claim to have invented golf, but that doesn't mean anything about which places it is associated with more.

Without going back to the end of time, if you asked anyone or looked anywhere you would see it is associated with Scotland and has been for a very very long time. I have never seen anything similar other than a few historical mentions that something similar may have been used in some form in A , B or C.
Bagpipes as they are today are totally Scottish , fact that you can have some variations is neither her nor there.
My beef is the fact that some sections of England can never bear to see anything positive about Scotland no matter what it is, we get fed it constantly in the state propaganda media unit and the London owned newspapers.
Rant over I am going back to being a happy chappie again.

There was also a reference to an American cultural icon in my post. My family is American You do need to dial it in for your own health.

You a Doctor in your spare time Doug when not banging up criminals. I am perfectly healthy thank you.

SouthamObserver said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Chris said:

Philip_Thompson said:

DougSeal said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Beibheirli_C said:

DougSeal said:

malcolmg said:

Razedabode said:

I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)

They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.

The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.

The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?

2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.

Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.

Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.

We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?

It's been five years of talking now. I'd prefer a deal where the EU gives us what we want, like any other independent country, but if that's not available we will just have to make World Trade terms work as well as we can.

But I get the distinct impression some of you would be more disappointed by me being right and the UK coping just fine out of the Single Market, albeit with some disruption at first, than with you being right and it being an unmitigated disaster.

Negotiation is about give and take not getting everything you ask for. No other country has got everything it wanted from the EU. We are not exceptional. There is no cake and eat it option.

Because all the evidence from independent sources suggests we are right and you are wrong. Only when that is proved can this country start healing from the sickness your kind has led it to. People will die because of No Deal. Own it.

I'm prepared to "own it". Let's get on with it and see. It's time to open the box and see if the Brexit No Deal cat is alive or dead.

Are you prepared to "own it" if I'm right? Are you prepared for the country to have the opportunity to find out if I and others like me are right?

Are you prepared to "own it" in any other sense than an unidentified troll on the Internet, though? If so, how?

I'm not a troll, I'm just a person who enjoys discussing politics same as everyone else here.

I'm young, I'm sure my job opportunities for forthcoming decades will be affected if I'm wrong. We will see.

In other words, all this crap about "owning it" amounts to nothing more than that you're going to suffer the same consequences as the rest of us?

We're all "owning it" in that sense ...

Yes it is called democracy. Is that concept so alien to you?

When we integrated into the EU for decades against the wishes of many in this nation, when the Lisbon Treaty was passed without a referendum against the wishes of most of the country and in violation of the then governments manifesto commitment not to ratify without one ... We all collectively owned it then too.

When my side next loses a vote then we will collectively have to accept that too. But we won this one so suck it up, buttercup.

All of us Brits can enjoy the fact we have a government that has, as a matter of policy, decided we should enjoy less freedom and be second class citizens in our own country. I imagine it's what you voted for, Phil, but I am not sure it's what others did.

williamglenn said:

Have you ever seen bagpipes played like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W780LSQHbYY