According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
Don't forget the English culinary tradition was decimated by various puritanical religious waves. In earlier times the food of the royal court was supposed to have been on a par with anywhere, and some local culinary traditions were evolving quite substantially all over the place. By the nineteenth century and a diminished culinary tradition, it would be logical for east end jews to be one of the only likely sources of new culinary fusions, which then spread all over the country. There aren't signs of any fish and chip shops before those mentioned in the east end, as far as I know.
“IanB2 said: A close friend of the prime minister and his fiancee was given an official position at the Home Office without the role being publicly advertised, a freedom of information request has revealed.
Nimco Ali, who is reportedly godmother to the son of Carrie Symonds and Boris Johnson, was appointed adviser on tackling violence against women and girls in October.
Information released under the Freedom of Information Act to The Critic magazine revealed that she was hired via a “direct appointment process”, without open competition or advertisement for the job.
It appears the role may have been created for Ali, with no mention of it before her appointment. She is paid £350 a day and works two days a month.”
For context, how much would a process of open competiton and advertisements have cost? Would that have been a great use of public money for a £700 a month cost?”
No, no - not letting that go.
I recently applied for membership of the IOPC panel, an application run by the very same Home Office that this Nimco Ali works for. The daily rate for the role was £350 per day and the role was for ca. 24 days a year. So exactly the same as for Ms Ali.
There is an established procedure for advertising these roles - in the regular newsletters and emails that get sent to people interested in public service roles - and for the lodging of applications, interviews etc. The marginal cost of doing so for Ms Ali’s role is insignificant. Quite apart from the importance of transparency and not having a corrupt, sleazy approach to the award of public money, contracts and roles.
Hand waving this away on the grounds of “oh, it’s a small amount, who cares” is not good enough. Pretty soon all these small amounts add up to very significant amounts indeed. Sleaze should never be acceptable.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.
You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.
Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the self-determination of Falkland Islanders, it was your cavalier, Old Testament attitude to human life that alarmed me.
Your weak, wet approach to defending British sovereign territory and subjects is far more alarming
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
You applying for CDS ?
That would leave you without the resources to retake the newly independent Scotland. Let alone Gibraltar.
Our military is bigger than Spain's and Argentina's combined, we have the resources required if needed to deal with any disturbance, especially given the government is increasing military spending again
You half wit , we would be lucky to punch our way out of a wet paper bag.
Don't forget the English culinary tradition was decimated by various puritanical religious waves. In earlier times the food of the royal court was supposed to have been on a par with that of anywhere, and some local culinary traditions were evolving quite substantially all over the place. By the nineteenth century and a diminished culinary tradition, it would be logical for east end jews to be one if the only likely sources of new culinary fusions, which then spread all over the country. There aren't mentions of fish and chips shops before those in the east end, as far as I know.
There is a book about the various waves of migration from the UK to America and it includes how various regional dishes survived the trip such as pies in New England IIRC
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.
You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.
Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the self-determination of Falkland Islanders, it was your cavalier, Old Testament attitude to human life that alarmed me.
Your weak, wet approach to defending British sovereign territory and subjects is far more alarming
So if there was a fight you’d know you would lose, that the generals told you you would lose, you would still fight anyway?
Apart from fighting the US, China or Russia the British military would probably defeat every other military on earth, we are unlikely to ever fight the first, a close ally, we would only fight the second with the US and India and the third with NATO anyway not alone
Afghanistan?
Bin Laden now dead and Al Qaeda removed from the country and the Taliban removed from power but again we did that as part of a Coalition led by the US, not alone
LOL, you count leaving with our tails between our legs, country wrecked as a victory, what a bellend.
So... How many Cabinet Ministers have sent the PM a 10 page memo, saying that of course they are fully on board with the strategy, but (in a sentence in the middle of a paragraph on page 7) he really ought to sort out these flaws so that No Deal can work. And how many of those memos will get leaked to a Sunday paper in 2 month's time?
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
1. OGH says the only correct poll is the one you like the look of. Does it also influence you betting? On average polls show Dems only narrowly ahead 2 points at best with lots of independents saying don’t know.
2. Trump did well in the presidential election, second biggest vote share in history. Trump got millions of unlikely voters to the polls and while they were there, they voted a straight Republican ticket. This is because he is doing something that works. He painted Hilary Clinton as crooked and useless, and it works. the election we just had, has to be classed as a Democrat defeat, right down ticket (apart from headline wh) the the GOP win came in a high-turnout presidential election year, when Democrats normally do well. This is because the Democrats have successfully been painted as far too left, controlled by the squad, every candidate defund the police, this is how every candidate is now seen.
3. Just like in November election, if polls show dem candidates ahead, sometimes big margins, but they end up losing, then surely Witches have been burnt at the stake for less?
I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)
They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.
Oldest trick in the book. I hope people don’t buy it. Maybe they will.
That should spark the 'Second Referendum War' just a few months after partially resolving the first one and this time the 'Remainers' have a healthy majority now the Hartlepudlians have scattered or died of old age
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish and chip shop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what then made it unique to Britain.
A medical student from Dundee told me many years ago that the reason there were so many chippies in the town was that they were subsidised during the war, because frying potatoes for chips restrains a small amount of Vitamin C which would be lost by other methods of cooking and hence helped to reduce the incidence of scurvy. Probably not true but he was a Scot so shouldn't have had an axe to grind.
A lot of the nutrients in a potato are in the skin. Also the high temperatures used to fry potatoes do no favours to the Vitamins which can be destroyed by high heat.
The best way to get nutrition from a potato is to bake it, skin and all, at about 150°C and then eat the lot.
Good to know my favourite way of cooking potatoes is also the best.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
I believe Scotland’s fishing waters represent around two thirds of the UK total. I’m sure that would play no part in how France and more specifically Spain looked upon the possibility of an Indy Scotland.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
They can already fish in most of Irish waters as the Republic has been independent for decades, Boris will of course ban indyref2 so Scottish waters will remain UK waters
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.
You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.
Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the self-determination of Falkland Islanders, it was your cavalier, Old Testament attitude to human life that alarmed me.
Your weak, wet approach to defending British sovereign territory and subjects is far more alarming
So if there was a fight you’d know you would lose, that the generals told you you would lose, you would still fight anyway?
Apart from fighting the US, China or Russia the British military would probably defeat every other military on earth, we are unlikely to ever fight the first, a close ally, we would only fight the second with the US and India and the third with NATO anyway not alone
Afghanistan?
Bin Laden now dead and Al Qaeda removed from the country and the Taliban removed from power but again we did that as part of a Coalition led by the US, not alone
LOL, you count leaving with our tails between our legs, country wrecked as a victory, what a bellend.
We still have some presence in Afghanistan via special forces but the aim was to get Bin Laden after 9/11 which was achieved
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.
You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.
Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the self-determination of Falkland Islanders, it was your cavalier, Old Testament attitude to human life that alarmed me.
Your weak, wet approach to defending British sovereign territory and subjects is far more alarming
So shoot me as a conscientious objector!
Of the Falkland Islands, I care not a jot!
Fortunately for the people of the Falklands most British people are rather more loyal to them than you
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.
You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.
Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the self-determination of Falkland Islanders, it was your cavalier, Old Testament attitude to human life that alarmed me.
Your weak, wet approach to defending British sovereign territory and subjects is far more alarming
So if there was a fight you’d know you would lose, that the generals told you you would lose, you would still fight anyway?
Apart from fighting the US, China or Russia the British military would probably defeat every other military on earth, we are unlikely to ever fight the first, a close ally, we would only fight the second with the US and India and the third with NATO anyway not alone
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
Don't forget the English culinary tradition was decimated by various puritanical religious waves. In earlier times the food of the royal court was supposed to have been on a par with anywhere, and some local culinary traditions were evolving quite substantially all over the place. By the nineteenth century and a diminished culinary tradition, it would be logical for east end jews to be one of the only likely sources of new culinary fusions, which then spread all over the country. There aren't signs of any fish and chip shops before those mentioned in the east end, as far as I know.
What about the theory that the "English culinary tradition" was designed to show off high quality ingredients, while others tended to try to disguise the fact that they were not by covering them with sauces or spices etc.?
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.
You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.
Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the self-determination of Falkland Islanders, it was your cavalier, Old Testament attitude to human life that alarmed me.
Your weak, wet approach to defending British sovereign territory and subjects is far more alarming
So if there was a fight you’d know you would lose, that the generals told you you would lose, you would still fight anyway?
Apart from fighting the US, China or Russia the British military would probably defeat every other military on earth, we are unlikely to ever fight the first, a close ally, we would only fight the second with the US and India and the third with NATO anyway not alone
Which branch did you serve in HYUFD?
The cadet force but regardless we have a professional military not conscription
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.
You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.
Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the self-determination of Falkland Islanders, it was your cavalier, Old Testament attitude to human life that alarmed me.
Your weak, wet approach to defending British sovereign territory and subjects is far more alarming
So if there was a fight you’d know you would lose, that the generals told you you would lose, you would still fight anyway?
Apart from fighting the US, China or Russia the British military would probably defeat every other military on earth, we are unlikely to ever fight the first, a close ally, we would only fight the second with the US and India and the third with NATO anyway not alone
Which branch did you serve in HYUFD?
The cadet force but regardless we have a professional military not conscription
O/t but I've just been offered a Covid-19 vaccination from my former NHS employer. Whom I left in 2003. Sadly, when I tried to book, apparently I had to be a current member of staff. Got quite excited for a moment.
Should they even still have your contact details on file after all this time?
That is how efficient they are, patient records are similar. Recently had similar example. GP had no record of some results from wife's tests then she got copied on another test and it had a GP surgery 20 miles away as her Doctor. they had no idea how it happened, said they would let us know and silence since.
If its held up over goddamn fish then its definitely shared intransigence.
Yesterday's Times reported that along with the dispute over fish (they're stuck at surrendering 18%) the EU's proposal was that state air rules would apply to the UK, but not the EU Commission.....
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
And healthy people should not have relied upon EHIC card in Europe. It would not pay for an ambulance home (flight or road), it would not pay for a helicopter to get you off the slopes, it would not pay for treatment if you are taken to a Doctor who doesn't accept the EHIC card and you may have no choice as your first point of call (which happened to me).
All of these could result in bills in the thousands if not tens of thousands of pound.
I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)
They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.
The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.
O/t but I've just been offered a Covid-19 vaccination from my former NHS employer. Whom I left in 2003. Sadly, when I tried to book, apparently I had to be a current member of staff. Got quite excited for a moment.
Should they even still have your contact details on file after all this time?
Surprising, I agree. I'm also surprised that anyone 80+ would still be on the bank staff list. Competency reasons, if nothing else.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
I believe Scotland’s fishing waters represent around two thirds of the UK total. I’m sure that would play no part in how France and more specifically Spain looked upon the possibility of an Indy Scotland.
Sturgeon looking to give away all Scottish fish to the EU then I see
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.
Actually, I don't agree. I think very often similar ideas occur in similar cultures without "inspiration from elsewhere".
Who invented football? Really, the idea of kicking a ball about must be very common in all cultures.
Similarly, I'd be very surprised if the idea of frying fish in batter and potatoes required great inspiration from elsewhere, even in England.
Bagpipes are common to all the Celtic cultures. Nothing enrages a French acquaintance of mine -- qui aime de manière exclusive son pays -- more than the sound of the binioù kozh.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.
You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.
Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the self-determination of Falkland Islanders, it was your cavalier, Old Testament attitude to human life that alarmed me.
Your weak, wet approach to defending British sovereign territory and subjects is far more alarming
So if there was a fight you’d know you would lose, that the generals told you you would lose, you would still fight anyway?
Apart from fighting the US, China or Russia the British military would probably defeat every other military on earth, we are unlikely to ever fight the first, a close ally, we would only fight the second with the US and India and the third with NATO anyway not alone
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
Excuses not to get health insurance are not necessary.
If people are too sick to get insurance they maybe shouldn't be traveling?
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
Nothing good comes from engaging with nutters on Twitter and such discussions never go anywhere.
A problem (also relevant to Alastair's header) is what to do if old friends have opinions that you think are nuts. I know an American couple in SC - she at least is a passionate Trump supporter and posts on many forums to say so. He is not commenting. I've known them for 20 years and they are good friends and seemingly a happily married couple. I've simply paused writing to them - I can't ask him to comment as he'll feel bound by loyalty (and perhaps agrees with her), and not mentioning the subject that she posts about several times a day seems odd. I'll drop them a friendly note at Christmas.
What if friends are lockdown/vaccination denialists? They are potentially causing harm to others as well as themselves, I think. If you think this, how hard to do you push?
I had that situation years ago when pregnant with my second son. I learnt that my eldest boy’s best friend had not had the MMR vaccination because his mum was an anti-vaxxer. The boy had been coming round to my house this putting me and, more importantly, my unborn child at risk. I was furious and told her so in no uncertain terms.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
I believe Scotland’s fishing waters represent around two thirds of the UK total. I’m sure that would play no part in how France and more specifically Spain looked upon the possibility of an Indy Scotland.
French fishermen tend to fish in what will be English waters in the channel and the southern North Sea - they prefer species that are fished in calmer shallower waters such as shellfish and bass. The Spanish go further afield.
Boris is so untrusted that all such a TV broadcast would do is further cement divisions in the country. Half will believe it, half will think it's dross.
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
And healthy people should not have relied upon EHIC card in Europe. It would not pay for an ambulance home (flight or road), it would not pay for a helicopter to get you off the slopes, it would not pay for treatment if you are taken to a Doctor who doesn't accept the EHIC card and you may have no choice as your first point of call (which happened to me).
All of these could result in bills in the thousands if not tens of thousands of pound.
I have a friend who didn't buy insurance because he thought he was insured by the EHIC. Broke his leg in a ski accident, ended up with a bill in the thousands.
Personally I'm delighted with how the talks are shaping up. Looks like Boris is holding his nerve, just what May never even bothered trying to do.
Either he holds and the EU blink in which case we win, or he holds and we trade World Trade style which is fine.
World Trade style is *not* fine. It will be a massive economic shock to add onto the Covid shock.
This wretched Conservative Government is of course willing to cut its nose to spite its face. Might please Brexit morons like yourself but the damage to the country will be huge.
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
Excuses not to get health insurance are not necessary.
If people are too sick to get insurance they maybe shouldn't be traveling?
A benefit of EU membership was that even the very ill could travel. Any other areas of human experience you want to exclude the sick and disabled from. Work? Marriage?
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
And healthy people should not have relied upon EHIC card in Europe. It would not pay for an ambulance home (flight or road), it would not pay for a helicopter to get you off the slopes, it would not pay for treatment if you are taken to a Doctor who doesn't accept the EHIC card and you may have no choice as your first point of call (which happened to me).
All of these could result in bills in the thousands if not tens of thousands of pound.
I was not opining on the rightness or wrongness of it. Just pointing that thousands, possibly millions, did use it. And now they will be paying extra, once again irregardless of the rights or wrongs.
But people being people will not thank you for making them pay to do the right thing.
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
Isn't that to some extent the result of the Industrial Revolution? People were crowded into tenements and so on, with limited access to a variety of food and so the skills of the country-dweller were lost. And of course the had 10 years of very plain cooking, and no restaurants, 1939-49 or so.
"The likelihood of a systemic economic crisis has increased and will have major impacts on disposable incomes, unemployment, business activity, international trade/commerce, market stability, and security decisions/capability"
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
I believe Scotland’s fishing waters represent around two thirds of the UK total. I’m sure that would play no part in how France and more specifically Spain looked upon the possibility of an Indy Scotland.
Sturgeon looking to give away all Scottish fish to the EU then I see
The Eu will be positively delighted at Scottish independence. This is going to get ugly. 😕
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
Excuses not to get health insurance are not necessary.
If people are too sick to get insurance they maybe shouldn't be traveling?
A benefit of EU membership was that even the very ill could travel. Any other areas of human experience you want to exclude the sick and disabled from. Work? Marriage?
No they couldn't because the EHIC was never proper insurance. Proper insurance covers far more than the EHIC did.
The very sick travelling on EHIC alone was always a bad idea.
Nothing good comes from engaging with nutters on Twitter and such discussions never go anywhere.
A problem (also relevant to Alastair's header) is what to do if old friends have opinions that you think are nuts. I know an American couple in SC - she at least is a passionate Trump supporter and posts on many forums to say so. He is not commenting. I've known them for 20 years and they are good friends and seemingly a happily married couple. I've simply paused writing to them - I can't ask him to comment as he'll feel bound by loyalty (and perhaps agrees with her), and not mentioning the subject that she posts about several times a day seems odd. I'll drop them a friendly note at Christmas.
What if friends are lockdown/vaccination denialists? They are potentially causing harm to others as well as themselves, I think. If you think this, how hard to do you push?
I had that situation years ago when pregnant with my second son. I learnt that my eldest boy’s best friend had not had the MMR vaccination because his mum was an anti-vaxxer. The boy had been coming round to my house this putting me and, more importantly, my unborn child at risk. I was furious and told her so in no uncertain terms.
We remained friends despite it though.
I bit my tongue when my brother & sister-in-law didn't get my niece & nephew inoculated - which they went out and did when they turned 18!
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
Excuses not to get health insurance are not necessary.
If people are too sick to get insurance they maybe shouldn't be traveling?
So let's make it impossible for them to do so, rather than make their own decision. There's libertarianism for you, right there.
If people are so breathtakingly moronic they thought EHIC would cover them adequately for a skiing holiday, maybe they should have their passports confiscated. Happy with that?
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
I believe Scotland’s fishing waters represent around two thirds of the UK total. I’m sure that would play no part in how France and more specifically Spain looked upon the possibility of an Indy Scotland.
Sturgeon looking to give away all Scottish fish to the EU then I see
The Eu will be positively delighted at Scottish independence. This is going to get ugly. 😕
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
Isn't that to some extent the result of the Industrial Revolution? People were crowded into tenements and so on, with limited access to a variety of food and so the skills of the country-dweller were lost. And of course the had 10 years of very plain cooking, and no restaurants, 1939-49 or so.
Yes. Britain industrialised very early, which was very traumatic for rural traditions, and even before then had suffered centuries of puritanical discouragement of advanced, or "gluttonous and sensual", cooking. Added to both the wartime and postwar climate of rationing, the prospects wouldn't be too great.
I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)
They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.
The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.
The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?
If its held up over goddamn fish then its definitely shared intransigence.
Yesterday's Times reported that along with the dispute over fish (they're stuck at surrendering 18%) the EU's proposal was that state air rules would apply to the UK, but not the EU Commission.....
Anyone who thinks that is reasonable for us to sign up to is absolutely delusional.
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
Excuses not to get health insurance are not necessary.
If people are too sick to get insurance they maybe shouldn't be traveling?
A benefit of EU membership was that even the very ill could travel. Any other areas of human experience you want to exclude the sick and disabled from. Work? Marriage?
No they couldn't because the EHIC was never proper insurance. Proper insurance covers far more than the EHIC did.
The very sick travelling on EHIC alone was always a bad idea.
Pity there's no insurance against this kind of utter stupidity.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
There's a special agency for it, although the coastguard and RN vessels might be involved as well. None of them have very many ships available for effective enforcement, though, given the huge amount and extent of waters involved. The agency has bought 2 (two, as in one and then another) extra vessels in preparation for Brexit.
Plenty of kippers around the Kent coast who can no doubt be recruited to man the coastguard fishing enforcement vessels
Ah, we’re at the Volkssturm stage of Brexit I see. We know how that turned out...
More the Home Guard.
And we know how that turned out.
(Into one of our most loved sitcoms.)
A shyte remake, nostalgia ridden, backward looking and unloved is how it turned out.
But enough of the next Scottish independence campaign.....
The one that your leader is running scared from?
The one the leader of the United Kingdom is staying resolute on.
That the leader of the SNP can so easily run away from her Party's "once in a generation" pledge tells you all you need to know.
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
Isn't that to some extent the result of the Industrial Revolution? People were crowded into tenements and so on, with limited access to a variety of food and so the skills of the country-dweller were lost. And of course the had 10 years of very plain cooking, and no restaurants, 1939-49 or so.
Yes. Britain industrialised very early, which was very traumatic for rural traditions, and even before that had suffered centuries of puritanical discouragement of advanced or "gluttonous and sensual" cooking.
Plus, we ain’t in the Med. This is, to a large extent, turnip-growing country.
Looking forward to No Deal Pie, aka mackerel and turnip “surprise”.
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
In fact, a broad cross-section of people (Leavers & Remainers) spent several hours trying to explain to you that someone with serious health conditions should not be travelling without medical insurance.
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
I never said that someone with serious health issues should be insurance free. I said it was often used by healthy people as an excuse not to buy insurance. The posts are there if you want to go back and check.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
Excuses not to get health insurance are not necessary.
If people are too sick to get insurance they maybe shouldn't be traveling?
So let's make it impossible for them to do so, rather than make their own decision. There's libertarianism for you, right there.
If people are so breathtakingly moronic they thought EHIC would cover them adequately for a skiing holiday, maybe they should have their passports confiscated. Happy with that?
How are we making it impossible for them? They can purchase insurance if they want to, there will be no ban on sales of insurance.
I don't think you understand what libertarianism is. You seem to think the state facilitating and providing for everything: insurance, NIMBYism on other people's land etc is libertarian rather than people choosing for themselves what they want to do.
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.
Actually, I don't agree. I think very often similar ideas occur in similar cultures without "inspiration from elsewhere".
Who invented football? Really, the idea of kicking a ball about must be very common in all cultures.
Similarly, I'd be very surprised if the idea of frying fish in batter and potatoes required great inspiration from elsewhere, even in England.
Bagpipes are common to all the Celtic cultures. Nothing enrages a French acquaintance of mine -- qui aime de manière exclusive son pays -- more than the sound of the binioù kozh.
Bagpipes were regularly played at the Plantagenet and Tudor courts. Records indicate that in 1545 the court bagpiper (sometimes referred to as the droner) got a pretty reasonable 4d per day. Ironically the post seems to have lapsed about when James I and VI came down and remained vacant until Victoria appointed a new one 250 years later.
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
They can all holiday at home.
Just as well we will have a thriving hospitality sector well supported by the government.
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
They can all holiday at home.
Just as well we will have a thriving hospitality sector well supported by the government.
Oh .......😟
How has your daughter's pub been fairing in the past few days? Has business picked up at all since day 1?
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
Isn't that to some extent the result of the Industrial Revolution? People were crowded into tenements and so on, with limited access to a variety of food and so the skills of the country-dweller were lost. And of course the had 10 years of very plain cooking, and no restaurants, 1939-49 or so.
Yes. Britain industrialised very early, which was very traumatic for rural traditions, and even before that had suffered centuries of puritanical discouragement of advanced or "gluttonous and sensual" cooking.
Plus, we ain’t in the Med. This is, to a large extent, turnip-growing country.
Looking forward to No Deal Pie, aka mackerel and turnip “surprise”.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
All waters? How many ships will that take?
The RN has a surfeit of OPVs for fisheries enforcement as delays to the T26 program meant the MoD had to order a batch of River Class vessels it didn't need to keep BAE happy.
RN and coastguard patrols also have migrants in dinghies and Russian subs tapping our Channel cables to worry about, of course. And drug smuggling.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
All waters? How many ships will that take?
Boris will ban EU fishing boats from all British waters apparently if No Deal
So the UK fish and chip shop industry bust within 2 months as most existing supply chains are cut at a stroke?
No, as all British fish would go to British fish and chip shops, not the continent
Lobster and chips instead of cod?
Sounds good to me, haddock rather than cod as well
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
Don't forget the English culinary tradition was decimated by various puritanical religious waves. In earlier times the food of the royal court was supposed to have been on a par with anywhere, and some local culinary traditions were evolving quite substantially all over the place. By the nineteenth century and a diminished culinary tradition, it would be logical for east end jews to be one of the only likely sources of new culinary fusions, which then spread all over the country. There aren't signs of any fish and chip shops before those mentioned in the east end, as far as I know.
What about the theory that the "English culinary tradition" was designed to show off high quality ingredients, while others tended to try to disguise the fact that they were not by covering them with sauces or spices etc.?
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
English cooking, please (not British). The Welsh cuisine is quite, quite distinct.
Although this talk of fish had become bound up in EU-theocracy, there is something yet to be explained about the decline of fish in our diet.
I live a few miles from the coast in N. Wales. All the towns & villages In Cardigan Bay once had fishing boats that provided abundant fish for the population.
Herrings were "the silver darlings". They were the loved staple dish of the poor.
Now, in these villages & towns, it is almost impossible to buy fish at all. There are hardly any fishmongers (I don't know of one within 60 miles). There are no fishing boats that catch the fish in Cardigan Bay, certainly northward of Aberystwyth. There are boats that take tourists to see the dolphins and there are boats to take tourists to the small islands in the Bay. There are even boats that take tourists out to fish.
But, there are no fishing boats.
Why did this happen? I don't really believe that there is no demand. I personally would like to buy more fish.
They were on here the other day telling people that the ending of reciprocal healthcare was a Good Thing ™ because it was immoral to have other health systems paying.
So I will expect them to greet this news with joy...
They can all holiday at home.
Just as well we will have a thriving hospitality sector well supported by the government.
Oh .......😟
How has your daughter's pub been fairing in the past few days? Has business picked up at all since day 1?
Unless things have picked up Wednesday was her worst night ever.
I've been getting worried these past couple of days. Comrade HY's account appeared to have been hacked by some Cameronite moderate Conservative. I found myself agreeing with some of the posts.
However, panic over. This morning not only is he advocating sending the troops in, but killing the first born is now on the agenda.
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.
Actually, I don't agree. I think very often similar ideas occur in similar cultures without "inspiration from elsewhere".
Who invented football? Really, the idea of kicking a ball about must be very common in all cultures.
Similarly, I'd be very surprised if the idea of frying fish in batter and potatoes required great inspiration from elsewhere, even in England.
Bagpipes are common to all the Celtic cultures. Nothing enrages a French acquaintance of mine -- qui aime de manière exclusive son pays -- more than the sound of the binioù kozh.
Bagpipes were regularly played at the Plantagenet and Tudor courts. Records indicate that in 1545 the court bagpiper (sometimes referred to as the droner) got a pretty reasonable 4d per day. Ironically the post seems to have lapsed about when James I and VI came down and remained vacant until Victoria appointed a new one 250 years later.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
I believe Scotland’s fishing waters represent around two thirds of the UK total. I’m sure that would play no part in how France and more specifically Spain looked upon the possibility of an Indy Scotland.
Sturgeon looking to give away all Scottish fish to the EU then I see
The Eu will be positively delighted at Scottish independence. This is going to get ugly. 😕
It is not happening, the Tory government will not allow it and given how the Spanish treated the Catalan nationalist governments push for independence with EU support they can hardly complain
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish and chip shop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what then made it unique to Britain.
A medical student from Dundee told me many years ago that the reason there were so many chippies in the town was that they were subsidised during the war, because frying potatoes for chips restrains a small amount of Vitamin C which would be lost by other methods of cooking and hence helped to reduce the incidence of scurvy. Probably not true but he was a Scot so shouldn't have had an axe to grind.
A lot of the nutrients in a potato are in the skin. Also the high temperatures used to fry potatoes do no favours to the Vitamins which can be destroyed by high heat.
The best way to get nutrition from a potato is to bake it, skin and all, at about 150°C and then eat the lot.
Whilst baked potato is excellent , it does not match nice plate/bag of chips with salt and vinegar.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
All waters? How many ships will that take?
The RN has a surfeit of OPVs for fisheries enforcement as delays to the T26 program meant the MoD had to order a batch of River Class vessels it didn't need to keep BAE happy.
RN and coastguard patrols also have migrants in dinghies and Russian subs tapping our Channel cables to worry about, of course. And drug smuggling.
Biter and Smiter - Elven Swords out of the Hobbit? Blazer and Dasher - Aren't those Rudolf's chums?
"Bird Class" "Small Bird Class" - budget cut?
It gets better as it goes back in time.
Old C18/C19 sloops and the like I think - though some of those names were, in WW2, used for escort carriers built on the cheap in the emergency. HMS Dasher and Avenger infamously blew up in incidents caused by petrol vapour accumulation.
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
English cooking, please (not British). The Welsh cuisine is quite, quite distinct.
Indeed.
Nobody else in the world would think about grilling cheese on top of toast.
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.
Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
English cooking, please (not British). The Welsh cuisine is quite, quite distinct.
Although this talk of fish had become bound up in EU-theocracy, there is something yet to be explained about the decline of fish in our diet.
I live a few miles from the coast in N. Wales. All the towns & villages In Cardigan Bay once had fishing boats that provided abundant fish for the population.
Herrings were "the silver darlings". They were the loved staple dish of the poor.
Now, in these villages & towns, it is almost impossible to buy fish at all. There are hardly any fishmongers (I don't know of one within 60 miles). There are no fishing boats that catch the fish in Cardigan Bay, certainly northward of Aberystwyth. There are boats that take tourists to see the dolphins and there are boats to take tourists to the small islands in the Bay. There are even boats that take tourists out to fish.
But, there are no fishing boats.
Why did this happen? I don't really believe that there is no demand. I personally would like to buy more fish.
We seem (English speakers?) to have a phobia of fish. I know some people who won’t eat fish at all. In NZ, we are surrounded by astonishingly plentiful fishing stocks but fishmongers are few and very largely we leave more adventurous fish-eating to Asian immigrants.
Yet, go to Brittany or Northern Spain. Every village has its fish stall, or fish restaurants.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
All waters? How many ships will that take?
The RN has a surfeit of OPVs for fisheries enforcement as delays to the T26 program meant the MoD had to order a batch of River Class vessels it didn't need to keep BAE happy.
RN and coastguard patrols also have migrants in dinghies and Russian subs tapping our Channel cables to worry about, of course. And drug smuggling.
Biter and Smiter - Elven Swords out of the Hobbit? Blazer and Dasher - Aren't those Rudolf's chums?
"Bird Class" "Small Bird Class" - budget cut?
It gets better as it goes back in time.
If I were in charge I'd always make sure the smallest vessels had the most ridiculously tough seeming names. Like even simple Zodiac kind of vessel would be the HMS Colossos or HMS Dreadmonger
I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)
They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.
The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.
The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?
That’s the point. There’s no good outcome. Also it’s access to the Autoroute network to the markets in the Low Countries and Germany that Caen and Brest don’t provide, but Calais and Dunkirk do. Also the super fast ferry from Dublin to Holyhead is not designed for the rough waters round Lizard Point. So It’s a question of least worse outcome for them - but all outcomes are bad.
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
It’s hardly a big deal. Very few examples of human endeavour spring fully formed from the brain of some genius, culinary or otherwise, most rely on inspiration from elsewhere. Austen mentions Baseball in Northanger Abbey but it’s still a quintessentially American sport. Bagpipes originated in the Middle East - there’s a Hittite carving of someone playing them dated 1000BC but the Scots have claimed them now, and there’s no shame in that.
Only in English fevered imaginations were bagpipes not invented in Scotland
I've been getting worried these past couple of days. Comrade HY's account appeared to have been hacked by some Cameronite moderate Conservative. I found myself agreeing with some of the posts.
However, panic over. This morning not only is he advocating sending the troops in, but killing the first born is now on the agenda.
Though his strategy and logistics are seriously out of kilter. On a level with this
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
We will get some great laughs as they run rings round the RN. Will be great TV viewing. Unfortunately French will just shut Calais for a few days in protest and that will be that finished.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
I believe Scotland’s fishing waters represent around two thirds of the UK total. I’m sure that would play no part in how France and more specifically Spain looked upon the possibility of an Indy Scotland.
Sturgeon looking to give away all Scottish fish to the EU then I see
The Eu will be positively delighted at Scottish independence. This is going to get ugly. 😕
It is not happening, the Tory government will not allow it and given how the Spanish treated the Catalan nationalist governments push for independence with EU support they can hardly complain
You cannot possibly be as stupid as you make out on here.
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
The Britain of 1982.
Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.
The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.
You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.
Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the self-determination of Falkland Islanders, it was your cavalier, Old Testament attitude to human life that alarmed me.
Your weak, wet approach to defending British sovereign territory and subjects is far more alarming
So shoot me as a conscientious objector!
Don't joke about that with HYUFD, he'll do it. Once he's done with the executing traitors, Scot Nats, and Catalonian separatists.
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
We went on holiday to Italy for the first time in the early 60s and I enjoyed the food so much that my Mum made Spag Bol for us as a special treat when we got back. We were really proud of her for cooking this exotic dish.
According to WP: The dish originated in England and is an example of culinary fusion, combining Iberian Jewish fried fish with Belgian fried potatoes. Fish and chips is a common take-away food in the United Kingdom and numerous other countries, particularly in English-speaking and Commonwealth nations. Fish and chips first appeared in the UK in the 1860s, and by 1910, there were over 25,000 fish and chip shops across the UK. By the 1930s there were over 35,000 shops, but the trend reversed and by 2009 there were only approximately 10,000.[
Yes, as I remember first fish chip and chop was supposed to have been in the east end by someone called Joseph Mallin, for "fish cooked in the jewish style", or something like that. That Mallin and others mixed in the French/Belgian chips too was supposedly what made it unique to Britain.
Really? Culinary fusion ?
I mean fried fish must be medieval in origin and common to many cuisines. Chips require not very much culinary imagination, once potatoes have been introduced from the New World.
Are you really saying the English are so bereft of imagination that they could not come up with the idea of fish and chips without extensive help from Iberian Jews and the Belgians?
I have said some harsh things about the English in my time, but nothing has bad as that
Don't forget the English culinary tradition was decimated by various puritanical religious waves. In earlier times the food of the royal court was supposed to have been on a par with anywhere, and some local culinary traditions were evolving quite substantially all over the place. By the nineteenth century and a diminished culinary tradition, it would be logical for east end jews to be one of the only likely sources of new culinary fusions, which then spread all over the country. There aren't signs of any fish and chip shops before those mentioned in the east end, as far as I know.
What about the theory that the "English culinary tradition" was designed to show off high quality ingredients, while others tended to try to disguise the fact that they were not by covering them with sauces or spices etc.?
Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...
If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
That'll be fun.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
I believe Scotland’s fishing waters represent around two thirds of the UK total. I’m sure that would play no part in how France and more specifically Spain looked upon the possibility of an Indy Scotland.
Sturgeon looking to give away all Scottish fish to the EU then I see
I've been getting worried these past couple of days. Comrade HY's account appeared to have been hacked by some Cameronite moderate Conservative. I found myself agreeing with some of the posts.
However, panic over. This morning not only is he advocating sending the troops in, but killing the first born is now on the agenda.
I was not advocating repeating Exodus exactly and in any case that would be a matter for the Almighty
I cant believe we're talking about a no deal at this point..but has anyone considered the impact this has on Ireland? Let alone the impact on the UK - but Ireland becomes a market at the fringe of the EU, having to use land through the UK for export (albeit it can use the new ferry route - which doubles the journey time and lacks capacity)
They will soon build up the capacity and the new jobs that go with it.
The issue is not capacity it’s a 28 hour journey time as opposed to a 13 hour one. The former is too long for many agricultural products and in winter the crossing is even longer. Even capacity takes time.
The 28 hour journey will be quicker than the upcoming 2 day delay at British ports. Perhaps Stena will reroute from Holyhead to Caen or Brest?
2 days is conservative. There are regular 20 hour plus delays at border crossings where the throughput of vehicles is far lower and isn't complicated by a sea crossing.
Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.
Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.
Comments
“IanB2 said:
A close friend of the prime minister and his fiancee was given an official position at the Home Office without the role being publicly advertised, a freedom of information request has revealed.
Nimco Ali, who is reportedly godmother to the son of Carrie Symonds and Boris Johnson, was appointed adviser on tackling violence against women and girls in October.
Information released under the Freedom of Information Act to The Critic magazine revealed that she was hired via a “direct appointment process”, without open competition or advertisement for the job.
It appears the role may have been created for Ali, with no mention of it before her appointment. She is paid £350 a day and works two days a month.”
For context, how much would a process of open competiton and advertisements have cost? Would that have been a great use of public money for a £700 a month cost?”
No, no - not letting that go.
I recently applied for membership of the IOPC panel, an application run by the very same Home Office that this Nimco Ali works for. The daily rate for the role was £350 per day and the role was for ca. 24 days a year. So exactly the same as for Ms Ali.
There is an established procedure for advertising these roles - in the regular newsletters and emails that get sent to people interested in public service roles - and for the lodging of applications, interviews etc. The marginal cost of doing so for Ms Ali’s role is insignificant. Quite apart from the importance of transparency and not having a corrupt, sleazy approach to the award of public money, contracts and roles.
Hand waving this away on the grounds of “oh, it’s a small amount, who cares” is not good enough. Pretty soon all these small amounts add up to very significant amounts indeed. Sleaze should never be acceptable.
But they can always fish in Scottish and Irish waters when those divorces become final
A relevant question might be -- as there are non EU counties in EHIC (Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein or Switzerland) -- why exactly has the UK government decided to opt out?
Of the Falkland Islands, I care not a jot!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Albions-Seed-British-Folkways-Cultural/dp/0195069056/
I found them (well not all of them cos I gave up pretty quickly), but obviously I didn't find them because they weren't there.
Yeah I know the pun was hopeless as rather than being a pun it just looked like I was too stupid to identify the bit between the east and west coast.
Shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
And PB's resident GP tried to explain to you why the EHIC was sometimes the only cover some people could get....
Don’t bet on the democrats Senators in Georgia.
1. OGH says the only correct poll is the one you like the look of. Does it also influence you betting? On average polls show Dems only narrowly ahead 2 points at best with lots of independents saying don’t know.
2. Trump did well in the presidential election, second biggest vote share in history. Trump got millions of unlikely voters to the polls and while they were there, they voted a straight Republican ticket. This is because he is doing something that works. He painted Hilary Clinton as crooked and useless, and it works. the election we just had, has to be classed as a Democrat defeat, right down ticket (apart from headline wh) the the GOP win came in a high-turnout presidential election year, when Democrats normally do well. This is because the Democrats have successfully been painted as far too left, controlled by the squad, every candidate defund the police, this is how every candidate is now seen.
3. Just like in November election, if polls show dem candidates ahead, sometimes big margins, but they end up losing, then surely Witches have been burnt at the stake for less?
I only recently found out, when a baby is born in France the first this they do is whisper in its ear. There is but one God and it’s garlic.
Brilliant.
All of these could result in bills in the thousands if not tens of thousands of pound.
Either he holds and the EU blink in which case we win, or he holds and we trade World Trade style which is fine.
Who invented football? Really, the idea of kicking a ball about must be very common in all cultures.
Similarly, I'd be very surprised if the idea of frying fish in batter and potatoes required great inspiration from elsewhere, even in England.
Bagpipes are common to all the Celtic cultures. Nothing enrages a French acquaintance of mine -- qui aime de manière exclusive son pays -- more than the sound of the binioù kozh.
If people are too sick to get insurance they maybe shouldn't be traveling?
https://twitter.com/TeamTrump/status/1335405922081005568
We remained friends despite it though.
God help us.
This wretched Conservative Government is of course willing to cut its nose to spite its face. Might please Brexit morons like yourself but the damage to the country will be huge.
I would say odds for a crappy deal are 50/50.
But people being people will not thank you for making them pay to do the right thing.
And of course the had 10 years of very plain cooking, and no restaurants, 1939-49 or so.
says the Cabinet Office
"Fine" says our resident headbanger
The very sick travelling on EHIC alone was always a bad idea.
If people are so breathtakingly moronic they thought EHIC would cover them adequately for a skiing holiday, maybe they should have their passports confiscated. Happy with that?
Two birds, one stone.
That the leader of the SNP can so easily run away from her Party's "once in a generation" pledge tells you all you need to know.
This is, to a large extent, turnip-growing country.
Looking forward to No Deal Pie, aka mackerel and turnip “surprise”.
I don't think you understand what libertarianism is. You seem to think the state facilitating and providing for everything: insurance, NIMBYism on other people's land etc is libertarian rather than people choosing for themselves what they want to do.
Just as well we will have a thriving hospitality sector well supported by the government.
Oh .......😟
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolton_pie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_patrol_vessels_of_the_Royal_Navy
Biter and Smiter - Elven Swords out of the Hobbit?
Blazer and Dasher - Aren't those Rudolf's chums?
"Bird Class"
"Small Bird Class" - budget cut?
It gets better as it goes back in time.
Although this talk of fish had become bound up in EU-theocracy, there is something yet to be explained about the decline of fish in our diet.
I live a few miles from the coast in N. Wales. All the towns & villages In Cardigan Bay once had fishing boats that provided abundant fish for the population.
Herrings were "the silver darlings". They were the loved staple dish of the poor.
Now, in these villages & towns, it is almost impossible to buy fish at all. There are hardly any fishmongers (I don't know of one within 60 miles). There are no fishing boats that catch the fish in Cardigan Bay, certainly northward of Aberystwyth. There are boats that take tourists to see the dolphins and there are boats to take tourists to the small islands in the Bay. There are even boats that take tourists out to fish.
But, there are no fishing boats.
Why did this happen? I don't really believe that there is no demand. I personally would like to buy more fish.
However, panic over. This morning not only is he advocating sending the troops in, but killing the first born is now on the agenda.
Nobody else in the world would think about grilling cheese on top of toast.
Yet, go to Brittany or Northern Spain. Every village has its fish stall, or fish restaurants.
https://www.beano.com/posts/throwback-thursday-general-jumbo-saves-christmas-1964
Unfortunately French will just shut Calais for a few days in protest and that will be that finished.
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1335539606406787072
I am old enough to remember when British cooking wasnt at all imaginative and when something as pedestrian as Spag Bol was dangerously Avant Garde
Don't worry though. Vehicles won't be sent as their operators and drivers cannot afford to be stuck for that length of time. So import / export will largely stop.
Well that's what the cabinet office, hauliers, exporters, manufacturers, suppliers, ports are all warning with detailed evidence to validate their warnings. All are wrong says Philip because what he knows.
We sure Philip isn't an anarchist?