Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

No Platform For Mad Men. Lockdown Sceptics Are Getting Far Too Much Airtime – politicalbetting.com

24567

Comments

  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,448
    alex_ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The problem is that I just do not see how one can be done as there is no deal that will satisfy the people whose political acquiescence (the ERG) or irrelevance (Farage) Johnson needs to stay in power. And given that Johnson will always put his own interests first, how can he sign up to anything that will inevitably cause apoplexy among both groups - small as they are in the great scheme of things?

    All of this is true, but how vocal are they going to be in support when the reality of No Deal bites?

    Obviously, they will take no responsibility whatsoever and will blame everyone but themselves - but they will kick up a huge fuss if Johnson then seeks a deal with Brussels.

    They will say the Govt preparation has been undermined by the Remainers in the Civil Service.
    Either that or the effectiveness of their tin-foil defences has been undermined by EU regulations.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,808
    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote time. My dad hasn't been especially well this year. Last week he managed to do a hernia. Anyway, he went to see his GP who sent him off to the hospital. He spent most of Wednesday afternoon in outpatients as the doctors there examined him. He went back on Thursday - and spent all day there - before they decided that he needed surgery, which they'd do on Saturday once he'd been off some pills. Great, we thought, they're not messing around. Anyway, he goes back for one last check on Friday. This time, a doctor who he had not seen at all up to this point examines him and decides that actually, it's not that bad, we don't need to operate. Go home and let us know if you're in any pain.

    My dad's observation about the hospital was that, whilst most - but certainly not all - staff were wearing masks and temperatures were being checked, they seemed rather relaxed about COVID. It seems beyond bizarre that they went through to all that effort only to have someone (presumably more senior) veto surgery. I've been concerned about COVID preventing other stuff being done by the NHS. But what my dad went through shocked me. Surely you get the key decision maker involved straight away so that you don't waste time and increase risks of COVID being spread.

    Sorry to hear that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,039
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    I still can’t decide whether he’s likely to just fade away, or if the US descends into serious civil unrest.

    He'll definitely run in 2024. Why wouldn't he? Because he suddenly develops a distaste for power, wealth and other people's money? He will start campaigning for MAGA2024 on 20/1/21. The rest of the quasi-fascists and bible wankers in the GOP can do nothing to stop him.

    He'll probably win as he'll either be up against whatever is left of Biden's brain in a jar hooked up to a car battery and Hunter's laptop or Kamala Harris.
    He’s already said he’ll start campaigning on inauguration day, and he’s favourite for the nomination if he doesn’t get bored in the meantime, or get a stroke, or decide he doesn’t want to be a two time loser.
    I think he’d get beaten, badly, if he persists.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    Incidentally, does anyone know if the U.K. have completed the paperwork yet to allow exports to the EU of food etc at all?
  • FPT - I didn't understand the hysterical reaction to Diana's death at the time, and I still don't understand it now.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote time. My dad hasn't been especially well this year. Last week he managed to do a hernia. Anyway, he went to see his GP who sent him off to the hospital. He spent most of Wednesday afternoon in outpatients as the doctors there examined him. He went back on Thursday - and spent all day there - before they decided that he needed surgery, which they'd do on Saturday once he'd been off some pills. Great, we thought, they're not messing around. Anyway, he goes back for one last check on Friday. This time, a doctor who he had not seen at all up to this point examines him and decides that actually, it's not that bad, we don't need to operate. Go home and let us know if you're in any pain.

    My dad's observation about the hospital was that, whilst most - but certainly not all - staff were wearing masks and temperatures were being checked, they seemed rather relaxed about COVID. It seems beyond bizarre that they went through to all that effort only to have someone (presumably more senior) veto surgery. I've been concerned about COVID preventing other stuff being done by the NHS. But what my dad went through shocked me. Surely you get the key decision maker involved straight away so that you don't waste time and increase risks of COVID being spread.

    Sorry to hear about your dad. Sounds a bit of a shambles.

    But while @Foxy would know more than me, friends in the NHS are saying what’s causing major problems is not the infections but the isolating contacts (as it is in schools). That may be why they tried to hold the senior person back to the last minute.
    The senior person wasn't wearing a mask! Really very strange.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 7,448
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    Did Winston Churchill ever haggle with the Nazis over the price of fish?

    I expect someone will be coming along any moment now to tell me that was one of the highlights of the Second World War.
  • Currently reading Rome and the Mediterranean, by Livy. This line rather stood out:

    “But the firmness of his resolution was not matched by any clear notion about to put it into practice.”
  • On topic, I largely agree with Alastair.

    Excellent piece.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,039
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Trump's Georgia rally is near-disastrous for the GOP run-offs. Instead of focusing on the two Republican candidates he has launched a vitriolic attack on Governor Brian Kemp, pressuring him to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to a Washington Post source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures

    Then, at the rally, he went on another of his narcissistic tantrum rants.

    I'm beginning to dare to hope that the Democrats might just win both run-offs. Early voting begins a week tomorrow.

    Trump is quite mad. And his madness is incredibly corrosive to democracy in America.
    So does everyone ignore him after 20th Jan, and pretend he never happened, or do they keep him in the news every day for he next four years? I’m betting on the latter.
    So...

    I foolishly tried to engage some MAGAites on Twitter.

    The issue was about postal votes and how she signatures didn't match, and there were all going to get thrown out, and therefore Trump would be handed the State by the courts.

    First, I pointed out that - even if some votes were found to have been fraudulently cast - you couldn't know who they had been cast for.

    Secondly, I pointed out that if 11% of postal votes were fraudulently cast, you didn't need "an audit", you just needed to speak to nine people who were supposed to have voted, so as to find the one who didn't.

    And those people are publicly listed. It would literally take twenty minutes to find enough evidence of people who didn't actually vote.

    I've deleted Twitter from my phone.

    It's insane, and it's a testament to this site that - even when there are people one disagrees with - the arguments are normally civil and fact based.
    There are millions of idiots on social media, and the platform is designed to amplify fringe conspiracy theories and generate negative emotion - which drives ‘engagement’.

    A huge problem of modern TV media, as dicussed in the header, is that everyone involved is obsessed by what’s trending on Twitter. David Cameron was right about it.
    Facebook is a much bigger, and relatively less well reported problem - and less visible to those outside of any particular bubble.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    I still can’t decide whether he’s likely to just fade away, or if the US descends into serious civil unrest.

    He'll definitely run in 2024. Why wouldn't he? Because he suddenly develops a distaste for power, wealth and other people's money? He will start campaigning for MAGA2024 on 20/1/21. The rest of the quasi-fascists and bible wankers in the GOP can do nothing to stop him.

    He'll probably win as he'll either be up against whatever is left of Biden's brain in a jar hooked up to a car battery and Hunter's laptop or Kamala Harris.
    He’s already said he’ll start campaigning on inauguration day, and he’s favourite for the nomination if he doesn’t get bored in the meantime, or get a stroke, or decide he doesn’t want to be a two time loser.
    I think he’d get beaten, badly, if he persists.
    I still think there’s a non zero chance of some sort of actual physical coup attempt involving all these recent appointees to the Pentagon. It will fail miserably, but we could be seeing him in prison within a couple of months.

    All it will take is somebody to convince him that such a thing is plausible and he will go for it. That pattern (people telling him what he wants to hear and not questioning the validity of what he is told - with these things becoming ever more outlandish over time) has been the trajectory of the entire post election period.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Trump's Georgia rally is near-disastrous for the GOP run-offs. Instead of focusing on the two Republican candidates he has launched a vitriolic attack on Governor Brian Kemp, pressuring him to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to a Washington Post source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures

    Then, at the rally, he went on another of his narcissistic tantrum rants.

    I'm beginning to dare to hope that the Democrats might just win both run-offs. Early voting begins a week tomorrow.

    Trump is quite mad. And his madness is incredibly corrosive to democracy in America.
    So does everyone ignore him after 20th Jan, and pretend he never happened, or do they keep him in the news every day for he next four years? I’m betting on the latter.
    So...

    I foolishly tried to engage some MAGAites on Twitter.

    The issue was about postal votes and how she signatures didn't match, and there were all going to get thrown out, and therefore Trump would be handed the State by the courts.

    First, I pointed out that - even if some votes were found to have been fraudulently cast - you couldn't know who they had been cast for.

    Secondly, I pointed out that if 11% of postal votes were fraudulently cast, you didn't need "an audit", you just needed to speak to nine people who were supposed to have voted, so as to find the one who didn't.

    And those people are publicly listed. It would literally take twenty minutes to find enough evidence of people who didn't actually vote.

    I've deleted Twitter from my phone.

    It's insane, and it's a testament to this site that - even when there are people one disagrees with - the arguments are normally civil and fact based.
    I don't know why you bothered.

    Nothing good comes from engaging with nutters on Twitter and such discussions never go anywhere.
  • alex_ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I still struggle somewhat to comprehend how the Govt reconciles needing to be able to apportion blame with their simultaneous claims that no deal (“Australia deal”) will be an excellent outcome for the country. Why would you need to find blame for an excellent outcome?

    Or are they going to accuse somebody of sabotaging the Australia deal?
    Yes. "We would have had a brilliant Australia deal but instead we've ended up being treated like we're Albania! Who do these Europeans think they are?" That Australia and Albania and North Korea all have the same status doesn't matter, the people who believe in faries have been assured that No Deal brings about the return of Tinkerbell.

    You raise a great point. No Deal will be Great for British trade and we're going to airlift the vaccine to avoid the chaos at the ports caused by No Deal. No Deal will allow Britain to make our own laws and finally be free, and its the fault of the Frogs that this has happened. No Deal apparently is marvellous and a disaster. The government know the reality that no deal or even a deal that imposes a full customs border will be a multi-faceted disaster. Yet they are such spineless cowards that they are prepared to go through with it.
  • MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    Do the 40% of Brexiteers who are comfortable with No Deal realise it will wipe out 60% - 80% of British farmers income?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,447
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    I still can’t decide whether he’s likely to just fade away, or if the US descends into serious civil unrest.

    He'll definitely run in 2024. Why wouldn't he? Because he suddenly develops a distaste for power, wealth and other people's money? He will start campaigning for MAGA2024 on 20/1/21. The rest of the quasi-fascists and bible wankers in the GOP can do nothing to stop him.

    He'll probably win as he'll either be up against whatever is left of Biden's brain in a jar hooked up to a car battery and Hunter's laptop or Kamala Harris.
    He’s already said he’ll start campaigning on inauguration day, and he’s favourite for the nomination if he doesn’t get bored in the meantime, or get a stroke, or decide he doesn’t want to be a two time loser.
    I think he’d get beaten, badly, if he persists.
    I'm hoping that before 2024 he is safely locked up in prison.
  • tlg86 said:

    Anecdote time. My dad hasn't been especially well this year. Last week he managed to do a hernia. Anyway, he went to see his GP who sent him off to the hospital. He spent most of Wednesday afternoon in outpatients as the doctors there examined him. He went back on Thursday - and spent all day there - before they decided that he needed surgery, which they'd do on Saturday once he'd been off some pills. Great, we thought, they're not messing around. Anyway, he goes back for one last check on Friday. This time, a doctor who he had not seen at all up to this point examines him and decides that actually, it's not that bad, we don't need to operate. Go home and let us know if you're in any pain.

    My dad's observation about the hospital was that, whilst most - but certainly not all - staff were wearing masks and temperatures were being checked, they seemed rather relaxed about COVID. It seems beyond bizarre that they went through to all that effort only to have someone (presumably more senior) veto surgery. I've been concerned about COVID preventing other stuff being done by the NHS. But what my dad went through shocked me. Surely you get the key decision maker involved straight away so that you don't waste time and increase risks of COVID being spread.

    My very best wishes. My Dad hasn't been well either.

    He's had a very similar experience to yours. He was discharged (without all the tests being completed) after two weeks as someone else near him suddenly tested positive for Covid.

    Thankfully, he was negative and seems to have dodged that bullet but he was stunned by the inefficiency of the NHS.
  • Metatron said:

    Do the 40% of Brexiteers who are comfortable with No Deal realise it will wipe out 60% - 80% of British farmers income?

    Yes, they expect the remainers to subsidise the farmers.
  • Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Trump's Georgia rally is near-disastrous for the GOP run-offs. Instead of focusing on the two Republican candidates he has launched a vitriolic attack on Governor Brian Kemp, pressuring him to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to a Washington Post source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures

    Then, at the rally, he went on another of his narcissistic tantrum rants.

    I'm beginning to dare to hope that the Democrats might just win both run-offs. Early voting begins a week tomorrow.

    Trump is quite mad. And his madness is incredibly corrosive to democracy in America.
    So does everyone ignore him after 20th Jan, and pretend he never happened, or do they keep him in the news every day for he next four years? I’m betting on the latter.
    So...

    I foolishly tried to engage some MAGAites on Twitter.

    The issue was about postal votes and how she signatures didn't match, and there were all going to get thrown out, and therefore Trump would be handed the State by the courts.

    First, I pointed out that - even if some votes were found to have been fraudulently cast - you couldn't know who they had been cast for.

    Secondly, I pointed out that if 11% of postal votes were fraudulently cast, you didn't need "an audit", you just needed to speak to nine people who were supposed to have voted, so as to find the one who didn't.

    And those people are publicly listed. It would literally take twenty minutes to find enough evidence of people who didn't actually vote.

    I've deleted Twitter from my phone.

    It's insane, and it's a testament to this site that - even when there are people one disagrees with - the arguments are normally civil and fact based.
    There are millions of idiots on social media, and the platform is designed to amplify fringe conspiracy theories and generate negative emotion - which drives ‘engagement’.

    A huge problem of modern TV media, as dicussed in the header, is that everyone involved is obsessed by what’s trending on Twitter. David Cameron was right about it.
    Facebook is a much bigger, and relatively less well reported problem - and less visible to those outside of any particular bubble.
    I barely use it anymore and neither do any of my friends.

    I get no value from it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    edited December 2020

    Currently reading Rome and the Mediterranean, by Livy. This line rather stood out:

    “But the firmness of his resolution was not matched by any clear notion about to put it into practice.”

    Having firm resolution was at least a start. If only.

    The book as a whole must surely be out of date by now? ;)
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 1,821

    kjh said:

    Watching MOTD repeat and thinking about the debate concerning heading the ball and long-term brain injury. I think if they banned heading outside the penalty areas it would cut the number of headers a lot and might even make for a better game.

    Trouble is there is probably a lot more heading during practice rather than playing.
    My local team have (or had when I was last able to watch them) a predilection for booting the ball high up field and trying to head it on. Seemed to be common practice in their league.
    Just hoping that by early/mid Jan, when my vaccination course is completed, I'll be able to go and see them again.
    Is that fun to watch? I suppose passing on the ground is harder without pristine premiership pitches.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,039

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Trump's Georgia rally is near-disastrous for the GOP run-offs. Instead of focusing on the two Republican candidates he has launched a vitriolic attack on Governor Brian Kemp, pressuring him to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to a Washington Post source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures

    Then, at the rally, he went on another of his narcissistic tantrum rants.

    I'm beginning to dare to hope that the Democrats might just win both run-offs. Early voting begins a week tomorrow.

    Trump is quite mad. And his madness is incredibly corrosive to democracy in America.
    So does everyone ignore him after 20th Jan, and pretend he never happened, or do they keep him in the news every day for he next four years? I’m betting on the latter.
    So...

    I foolishly tried to engage some MAGAites on Twitter.

    The issue was about postal votes and how she signatures didn't match, and there were all going to get thrown out, and therefore Trump would be handed the State by the courts.

    First, I pointed out that - even if some votes were found to have been fraudulently cast - you couldn't know who they had been cast for.

    Secondly, I pointed out that if 11% of postal votes were fraudulently cast, you didn't need "an audit", you just needed to speak to nine people who were supposed to have voted, so as to find the one who didn't.

    And those people are publicly listed. It would literally take twenty minutes to find enough evidence of people who didn't actually vote.

    I've deleted Twitter from my phone.

    It's insane, and it's a testament to this site that - even when there are people one disagrees with - the arguments are normally civil and fact based.
    There are millions of idiots on social media, and the platform is designed to amplify fringe conspiracy theories and generate negative emotion - which drives ‘engagement’.

    A huge problem of modern TV media, as dicussed in the header, is that everyone involved is obsessed by what’s trending on Twitter. David Cameron was right about it.
    Facebook is a much bigger, and relatively less well reported problem - and less visible to those outside of any particular bubble.
    I barely use it anymore and neither do any of my friends.

    I get no value from it.
    Quite; neither do I.
    And yet somehow it persists.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,828
    edited December 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Either last-minute "climax positioning", or things really are looking bad.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,605
    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    I still can’t decide whether he’s likely to just fade away, or if the US descends into serious civil unrest.

    He'll definitely run in 2024. Why wouldn't he? Because he suddenly develops a distaste for power, wealth and other people's money? He will start campaigning for MAGA2024 on 20/1/21. The rest of the quasi-fascists and bible wankers in the GOP can do nothing to stop him.

    He'll probably win as he'll either be up against whatever is left of Biden's brain in a jar hooked up to a car battery and Hunter's laptop or Kamala Harris.
    He’s already said he’ll start campaigning on inauguration day, and he’s favourite for the nomination if he doesn’t get bored in the meantime, or get a stroke, or decide he doesn’t want to be a two time loser.
    I think he’d get beaten, badly, if he persists.
    I'm hoping that before 2024 he is safely locked up in prison.
    Reminds me a bit of the 2018 Brazilian presidential election. Former president, Lula da Silva, was the clear favourite in the run-up. The only problem was that he was in prison, having been convicted of corruption charges pertaining to his earlier time in office.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,447

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Trump's Georgia rally is near-disastrous for the GOP run-offs. Instead of focusing on the two Republican candidates he has launched a vitriolic attack on Governor Brian Kemp, pressuring him to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to a Washington Post source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures

    Then, at the rally, he went on another of his narcissistic tantrum rants.

    I'm beginning to dare to hope that the Democrats might just win both run-offs. Early voting begins a week tomorrow.

    Trump is quite mad. And his madness is incredibly corrosive to democracy in America.
    So does everyone ignore him after 20th Jan, and pretend he never happened, or do they keep him in the news every day for he next four years? I’m betting on the latter.
    So...

    I foolishly tried to engage some MAGAites on Twitter.

    The issue was about postal votes and how she signatures didn't match, and there were all going to get thrown out, and therefore Trump would be handed the State by the courts.

    First, I pointed out that - even if some votes were found to have been fraudulently cast - you couldn't know who they had been cast for.

    Secondly, I pointed out that if 11% of postal votes were fraudulently cast, you didn't need "an audit", you just needed to speak to nine people who were supposed to have voted, so as to find the one who didn't.

    And those people are publicly listed. It would literally take twenty minutes to find enough evidence of people who didn't actually vote.

    I've deleted Twitter from my phone.

    It's insane, and it's a testament to this site that - even when there are people one disagrees with - the arguments are normally civil and fact based.
    I don't know why you bothered.

    Nothing good comes from engaging with nutters on Twitter and such discussions never go anywhere.
    You're absolutely right CR, but it is so easy to get sucked in. Several time I have tried to engage the religious nutters who turn up at my door and try to explain with probability, Carbon dating and Potassium dating they are talking nonsense. Complete waste of time, but still do it and regret it each time.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,914
    Sandpit said:


    How many crews would they need? What do Crab Air’s flight time timitations look like?

    In civvy street they have around five crews per airframe, with FTLs of 100hr/month and 900hr/year.

    Gun squadrons are crewed at about 1.5:1. Transport types are around 2:1. All of this is theoretical as MFTS hasn't exactly been in a shining success.

    They broadly follow civvie duty limits but the CO can authorise just about anything on the understanding that the MoD will hurl them to the jackals if anything goes wrong so they never do.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,945

    Chris said:

    Terrible though it is, part of me wants to think it's only right that there should be no deal, so that the real consequences can be displayed for all to see. Except I know that for the extreme Brexit loonies there will always be someone else to blame for the consequences of their own folly. (Cf. D. J. Trump, Jr, and his - still unbelievably extant - fans.)

    And a lot of the people who will suffer would be more accurately classified as their victims. And also a lot of people will suffer who could see all along what lunacy it was, because in this world there's a limit to how far you can protect yourself against other people's stupidity.

    I hope there will be a deal. It's not only about the immediate consequences, it's about what a failure will mean for the future existence of the UK, how we are perceived internationally and the long term harm that will do us.

    Whatever happens we are going to be poorer, less free, less united and more peripheral, but without a deal it will be so much worse. The problem is that I just do not see how one can be done as there is no deal that will satisfy the people whose political acquiescence (the ERG) or irrelevance (Farage) Johnson needs to stay in power. And given that Johnson will always put his own interests first, how can he sign up to anything that will inevitably cause apoplexy among both groups - small as they are in the great scheme of things?

    The tactics he uses are nearly always diversionary. I'm pretty sure a deal of sorts will be agreed and also that in a short space of time the great unwashed who are already shrinking away from him will realise they've been sold a pup. If watching Trump go down was this year's pleasure it will be nothing compared to watching the wretched Johnson go next
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733

    Chris said:

    Terrible though it is, part of me wants to think it's only right that there should be no deal, so that the real consequences can be displayed for all to see. Except I know that for the extreme Brexit loonies there will always be someone else to blame for the consequences of their own folly. (Cf. D. J. Trump, Jr, and his - still unbelievably extant - fans.)

    And a lot of the people who will suffer would be more accurately classified as their victims. And also a lot of people will suffer who could see all along what lunacy it was, because in this world there's a limit to how far you can protect yourself against other people's stupidity.

    I hope there will be a deal. It's not only about the immediate consequences, it's about what a failure will mean for the future existence of the UK, how we are perceived internationally and the long term harm that will do us.

    Whatever happens we are going to be poorer, less free, less united and more peripheral, but without a deal it will be so much worse. The problem is that I just do not see how one can be done as there is no deal that will satisfy the people whose political acquiescence (the ERG) or irrelevance (Farage) Johnson needs to stay in power. And given that Johnson will always put his own interests first, how can he sign up to anything that will inevitably cause apoplexy among both groups - small as they are in the great scheme of things?

    No deal isn't for life, it is for just after Christmas.

    I would be comfortable with a month or two of Brexiteers having to use torn up copies of the Daily Mail whilst Cushelle is unavailable through panic buying and log-jams (no pun intended) at Folkestone.

    Minds will be focused and the reality of Brexit will stand loud and proud, for all to see.
  • Scott_xP said:
    doesn't occur to them of course that if even fox has called for biden then trump lost clearly.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,605
    Scott_xP said:
    Cut from the same cloth of the Corbynites: the enemy is not the opposition party, but the turncoats within your own.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,435

    tlg86 said:

    Anecdote time. My dad hasn't been especially well this year. Last week he managed to do a hernia. Anyway, he went to see his GP who sent him off to the hospital. He spent most of Wednesday afternoon in outpatients as the doctors there examined him. He went back on Thursday - and spent all day there - before they decided that he needed surgery, which they'd do on Saturday once he'd been off some pills. Great, we thought, they're not messing around. Anyway, he goes back for one last check on Friday. This time, a doctor who he had not seen at all up to this point examines him and decides that actually, it's not that bad, we don't need to operate. Go home and let us know if you're in any pain.

    My dad's observation about the hospital was that, whilst most - but certainly not all - staff were wearing masks and temperatures were being checked, they seemed rather relaxed about COVID. It seems beyond bizarre that they went through to all that effort only to have someone (presumably more senior) veto surgery. I've been concerned about COVID preventing other stuff being done by the NHS. But what my dad went through shocked me. Surely you get the key decision maker involved straight away so that you don't waste time and increase risks of COVID being spread.

    My very best wishes. My Dad hasn't been well either.

    He's had a very similar experience to yours. He was discharged (without all the tests being completed) after two weeks as someone else near him suddenly tested positive for Covid.

    Thankfully, he was negative and seems to have dodged that bullet but he was stunned by the inefficiency of the NHS.
    I'm so sorry about both stories. I don't think they are especially COVID or NHS-related, but more due to the fact that medicine is still not the exact science that we'd like. Some doctors are bound to be better than others, but the patient has no reliable basis to judge which is which. We go by recommendations (which may depend on outcomes due to goodm fortune) and personal impressions. My mother really liked her (private) GP, who had an excellent bedside manner but neglected her treatment and left her bedridden; he was later struck off when the NOTW caught him giving heroin to a fake sheikh. I had prostate cancer diagnosed by an (NHS) GP; lab tests showed he was wrong. I don't think one can do much except seek second opinions for anything serious, and ask for explanations of any differences of opinion.

    Foxy's view would be interesting.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Either last-minute "climax positioning", or things really are looking bad.
    Given that Brexiteer ministers live in a fantasy world where there are only a couple of half empty ferries a day from Dover to the continent then I suspect these last minute demands were actually always there on the table but the cakists just refuse to acknowledge their existence.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,490
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    Did Winston Churchill ever haggle with the Nazis over the price of fish?

    I expect someone will be coming along any moment now to tell me that was one of the highlights of the Second World War.
    He did offer to join with France as a single nation when they'd been overrun. To think!

    They'd have been able to get all our fish, could have used a sensible language, and eaten proper sausages.
  • As a little diversion, how many missing states can you spot without looking it up? I only got three.

    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/contiguous_41_states_2x.png
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    So the new vaccine was tested on Andrew Lloyd-Webber. I guess that is reassuring.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    Scott_xP said:
    Cut from the same cloth of the Corbynites: the enemy is not the opposition party, but the turncoats within your own.
    Quite funny to see them eating their own side though.

  • Image
  • Metatron said:

    Do the 40% of Brexiteers who are comfortable with No Deal realise it will wipe out 60% - 80% of British farmers income?

    Try and guess.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,035
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Trump's Georgia rally is near-disastrous for the GOP run-offs. Instead of focusing on the two Republican candidates he has launched a vitriolic attack on Governor Brian Kemp, pressuring him to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to a Washington Post source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures

    Then, at the rally, he went on another of his narcissistic tantrum rants.

    I'm beginning to dare to hope that the Democrats might just win both run-offs. Early voting begins a week tomorrow.

    Trump is quite mad. And his madness is incredibly corrosive to democracy in America.
    So does everyone ignore him after 20th Jan, and pretend he never happened, or do they keep him in the news every day for he next four years? I’m betting on the latter.
    So...

    I foolishly tried to engage some MAGAites on Twitter.

    The issue was about postal votes and how she signatures didn't match, and there were all going to get thrown out, and therefore Trump would be handed the State by the courts.

    First, I pointed out that - even if some votes were found to have been fraudulently cast - you couldn't know who they had been cast for.

    Secondly, I pointed out that if 11% of postal votes were fraudulently cast, you didn't need "an audit", you just needed to speak to nine people who were supposed to have voted, so as to find the one who didn't.

    And those people are publicly listed. It would literally take twenty minutes to find enough evidence of people who didn't actually vote.

    I've deleted Twitter from my phone.

    It's insane, and it's a testament to this site that - even when there are people one disagrees with - the arguments are normally civil and fact based.
    There are millions of idiots on social media, and the platform is designed to amplify fringe conspiracy theories and generate negative emotion - which drives ‘engagement’.

    A huge problem of modern TV media, as dicussed in the header, is that everyone involved is obsessed by what’s trending on Twitter. David Cameron was right about it.
    Yes, Twitter has been amazing for lazy journalists. And lazy posters on online forums.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    kjh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Trump's Georgia rally is near-disastrous for the GOP run-offs. Instead of focusing on the two Republican candidates he has launched a vitriolic attack on Governor Brian Kemp, pressuring him to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to a Washington Post source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures

    Then, at the rally, he went on another of his narcissistic tantrum rants.

    I'm beginning to dare to hope that the Democrats might just win both run-offs. Early voting begins a week tomorrow.

    Trump is quite mad. And his madness is incredibly corrosive to democracy in America.
    So does everyone ignore him after 20th Jan, and pretend he never happened, or do they keep him in the news every day for he next four years? I’m betting on the latter.
    So...

    I foolishly tried to engage some MAGAites on Twitter.

    The issue was about postal votes and how she signatures didn't match, and there were all going to get thrown out, and therefore Trump would be handed the State by the courts.

    First, I pointed out that - even if some votes were found to have been fraudulently cast - you couldn't know who they had been cast for.

    Secondly, I pointed out that if 11% of postal votes were fraudulently cast, you didn't need "an audit", you just needed to speak to nine people who were supposed to have voted, so as to find the one who didn't.

    And those people are publicly listed. It would literally take twenty minutes to find enough evidence of people who didn't actually vote.

    I've deleted Twitter from my phone.

    It's insane, and it's a testament to this site that - even when there are people one disagrees with - the arguments are normally civil and fact based.
    I don't know why you bothered.

    Nothing good comes from engaging with nutters on Twitter and such discussions never go anywhere.
    You're absolutely right CR, but it is so easy to get sucked in. Several time I have tried to engage the religious nutters who turn up at my door and try to explain with probability, Carbon dating and Potassium dating they are talking nonsense. Complete waste of time, but still do it and regret it each time.
    The Jehovas are writing personal letters by mail, during the lockdowns, so now you can't even argue back.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 4,844

    FPT - I didn't understand the hysterical reaction to Diana's death at the time, and I still don't understand it now.

    I would guess two things and I admit I'm guessing.

    1) Some people enjoy putting others on a pedestal - Gods/Royalty/Stars etc

    2) They found her much more relatable than the other members of the firm.
  • kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:



    I still can’t decide whether he’s likely to just fade away, or if the US descends into serious civil unrest.

    He'll definitely run in 2024. Why wouldn't he? Because he suddenly develops a distaste for power, wealth and other people's money? He will start campaigning for MAGA2024 on 20/1/21. The rest of the quasi-fascists and bible wankers in the GOP can do nothing to stop him.

    He'll probably win as he'll either be up against whatever is left of Biden's brain in a jar hooked up to a car battery and Hunter's laptop or Kamala Harris.
    He’s already said he’ll start campaigning on inauguration day, and he’s favourite for the nomination if he doesn’t get bored in the meantime, or get a stroke, or decide he doesn’t want to be a two time loser.
    I think he’d get beaten, badly, if he persists.
    I'm hoping that before 2024 he is safely locked up in prison.
    Pretty sure we couldn't get that lucky. He'll be running in 2024. At this stage it seems we would get a similar result given that he has never been able to get his base above a certain ceiling, but who the f**k knows in this mad world.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,914
    Sandpit said:



    In civvy street they have around five crews per airframe, with FTLs of 100hr/month and 900hr/year.

    Forgot to mention that NATO currency specs are 180 hours/year. I flew the F/A-2 for six years and racked up just over 1,000 hours in total.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,435



    I don't know why you bothered.

    Nothing good comes from engaging with nutters on Twitter and such discussions never go anywhere.

    A problem (also relevant to Alastair's header) is what to do if old friends have opinions that you think are nuts. I know an American couple in SC - she at least is a passionate Trump supporter and posts on many forums to say so. He is not commenting. I've known them for 20 years and they are good friends and seemingly a happily married couple. I've simply paused writing to them - I can't ask him to comment as he'll feel bound by loyalty (and perhaps agrees with her), and not mentioning the subject that she posts about several times a day seems odd. I'll drop them a friendly note at Christmas.

    What if friends are lockdown/vaccination denialists? They are potentially causing harm to others as well as themselves, I think. If you think this, how hard to do you push?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480

    Trump's Georgia rally is near-disastrous for the GOP run-offs. Instead of focusing on the two Republican candidates he has launched a vitriolic attack on Governor Brian Kemp, pressuring him to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to a Washington Post source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures

    Then, at the rally, he went on another of his narcissistic tantrum rants.

    I'm beginning to dare to hope that the Democrats might just win both run-offs. Early voting begins a week tomorrow.

    The EC will be decided on December 14th when Biden will be elected, at which point there is no prospect of Trump becoming President again and the question in the run offs is not defeating Trump but stopping Democratic dominance of every branch of the Federal government and the far left pushing their agenda in Congress, which will in turn drive GOP turnout
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,496

    A problem (also relevant to Alastair's header) is what to do if old friends have opinions that you think are nuts.

    I have the same problem. A good friend, a really smart engineer, is convinced the Pennsylvania result is fraudulent.

    I haven't dared to ask why he thinks that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    edited December 2020

    Scott_xP said:
    Either last-minute "climax positioning", or things really are looking bad.
    Given that Brexiteer ministers live in a fantasy world where there are only a couple of half empty ferries a day from Dover to the continent then I suspect these last minute demands were actually always there on the table but the cakists just refuse to acknowledge their existence.
    Katya Adler's report on Marr strongly suggests that Bozo's silly buggers with being prepared to break his previous agreements and international law has hugely damaged trust between the negotiators, and the EU now wants everything tied down. This may be what Frost is claiming are new demands.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,496
    Oh dear

    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1335514296042860546

    this is exactly what the headbangers want
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
    Scott_xP said:

    Oh dear

    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1335514296042860546

    this is exactly what the headbangers want

    If the cap fits, Mr. Macron.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    edited December 2020



    I don't know why you bothered.

    Nothing good comes from engaging with nutters on Twitter and such discussions never go anywhere.

    A problem (also relevant to Alastair's header) is what to do if old friends have opinions that you think are nuts. I know an American couple in SC - she at least is a passionate Trump supporter and posts on many forums to say so. He is not commenting. I've known them for 20 years and they are good friends and seemingly a happily married couple. I've simply paused writing to them - I can't ask him to comment as he'll feel bound by loyalty (and perhaps agrees with her), and not mentioning the subject that she posts about several times a day seems odd. I'll drop them a friendly note at Christmas.

    What if friends are lockdown/vaccination denialists? They are potentially causing harm to others as well as themselves, I think. If you think this, how hard to do you push?

    I mentioned yesterday a friend of mine who is recovered from cancer and is adamant she won't have the vaccine. To the extent that if it becomes a requirement for travel or cinemas, she won't go. Her medical history has given her an accentuated fear of the pernicious effects of 'chemicals' in the body, also reinforced by her being a dog owner, among whom there is a minority but quite widely held view that over-vaccination (and over-medication for worms and fleas etc.) of pets is the reason why a high proportion of them succumb to cancer.

    Having had cancer gives you a free pass in such debates and I don't feel it worth arguing. Particularly as her view in regard to dogs may have something in it (although the poor diet dished out by supermarket pet food is as likely a culprit).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,224
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    All waters? How many ships will that take?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,828
    edited December 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    The Britain of 1982, at the foundation stone of modern Thatcherism.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,914

    Scott_xP said:

    Oh dear

    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1335514296042860546

    this is exactly what the headbangers want

    If the cap fits, Mr. Macron.....
    Qui se sent morveux se mouche. As the French say.

    (Johnson is the snot in this analogy.)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,447


    Image

    Stop it. Wasted quite a few minutes to find (well not find) a couple of missing States. Can't stop myself from doing it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    edited December 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    The Britain of 1982.
    Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.

    The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733
    Scott_xP said:

    A problem (also relevant to Alastair's header) is what to do if old friends have opinions that you think are nuts.

    I have the same problem. A good friend, a really smart engineer, is convinced the Pennsylvania result is fraudulent.

    I haven't dared to ask why he thinks that.
    A not too distant relative of my wife's is currently enraged (and I mean very, very angry) over Covid, lockdowns, vaccinations, Labour, the theft of the US election, immigration, wokery, BLM and bad deal, non-Sovereign Brexit.

    As an observer, I would say his dispossession is largely his own work.
    Unfortunately, his hitherto sensible daughter is now claiming Covid and winter flu death statistics are conflated, and claimed for Covid.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    There's a special agency for it, although the coastguard and RN vessels might be involved as well. None of them have very many ships available for effective enforcement, though, given the huge amount and extent of waters involved. The agency has bought 2 (two, as in one and then another) extra vessels in preparation for Brexit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,039

    As a little diversion, how many missing states can you spot without looking it up? I only got three.

    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/contiguous_41_states_2x.png

    Four before I got bored.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    All waters? How many ships will that take?
    Boris will ban EU fishing boats from all British waters apparently if No Deal
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,720



    I don't know why you bothered.

    Nothing good comes from engaging with nutters on Twitter and such discussions never go anywhere.

    A problem (also relevant to Alastair's header) is what to do if old friends have opinions that you think are nuts. I know an American couple in SC - she at least is a passionate Trump supporter and posts on many forums to say so. He is not commenting. I've known them for 20 years and they are good friends and seemingly a happily married couple. I've simply paused writing to them - I can't ask him to comment as he'll feel bound by loyalty (and perhaps agrees with her), and not mentioning the subject that she posts about several times a day seems odd. I'll drop them a friendly note at Christmas.

    What if friends are lockdown/vaccination denialists? They are potentially causing harm to others as well as themselves, I think. If you think this, how hard to do you push?

    Facebook is littered with Covid lunatics/vaccine sceptics. The header was excellent and I'd add that a lotmof blame has to go with the mainstream media too whose behavioiur has been abysmal throughout this crisis. I'd except the BBC in the main as they have played a straightish bat although the nonsense of special sports awards for Rashford and the absurd Xmas Vicar of Dibley means they are still losing the plot in other areas. After all that has happened do people really deserve to be preached at on Xmas day?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    All waters? How many ships will that take?
    Boris will ban EU fishing boats from all British waters apparently if No Deal
    As with everything Bozo does, it'll be all talk and no action.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,536
    kjh said:


    Image

    Stop it. Wasted quite a few minutes to find (well not find) a couple of missing States. Can't stop myself from doing it.
    North Dakota South Dakota Pennsylvania New Mexico
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    kjh said:


    Image

    Stop it. Wasted quite a few minutes to find (well not find) a couple of missing States. Can't stop myself from doing it.
    Clue: the mapper has taken out a whole strip running down the midwest/great plains
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    The Britain of 1982.
    Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.

    The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
    For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.

    You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    There's a special agency for it, although the coastguard and RN vessels might be involved as well. None of them have very many ships available for effective enforcement, though, given the huge amount and extent of waters involved. The agency has bought 2 (two, as in one and then another) extra vessels in preparation for Brexit.
    Plenty of kippers around the Kent coast who can no doubt be recruited to man the coastguard fishing enforcement vessels
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    There's a special agency for it, although the coastguard and RN vessels might be involved as well. None of them have very many ships available for effective enforcement, though, given the huge amount and extent of waters involved. The agency has bought 2 (two, as in one and then another) extra vessels in preparation for Brexit.
    Plenty of kippers around the Kent coast who can no doubt be recruited to man the coastguard fishing enforcement vessels
    Good grief!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    edited December 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    The Britain of 1982.
    Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.

    The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
    For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.

    You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
    War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.

    Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    The Britain of 1982.
    Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.

    The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
    But we would be leaving Scotland ungarrisoned and Gibraltar naked to the Spanish meanwhile....
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 1,821
    Nigelb said:

    As a little diversion, how many missing states can you spot without looking it up? I only got three.

    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/contiguous_41_states_2x.png

    Four before I got bored.
    6. Last one will annoy me now.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    All waters? How many ships will that take?
    Boris will ban EU fishing boats from all British waters apparently if No Deal
    So the UK fish and chip shop industry bust within 2 months as most existing supply chains are cut at a stroke?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    We need to radically restock our supply of near shore patrol boats if that’s the case.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 1,821

    Nigelb said:

    As a little diversion, how many missing states can you spot without looking it up? I only got three.

    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/contiguous_41_states_2x.png

    Four before I got bored.
    6. Last one will annoy me now.
    7. Unannoyed. Thanks for the diversion.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,039
    HYUFD said:

    Trump's Georgia rally is near-disastrous for the GOP run-offs. Instead of focusing on the two Republican candidates he has launched a vitriolic attack on Governor Brian Kemp, pressuring him to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to a Washington Post source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures

    Then, at the rally, he went on another of his narcissistic tantrum rants.

    I'm beginning to dare to hope that the Democrats might just win both run-offs. Early voting begins a week tomorrow.

    The EC will be decided on December 14th when Biden will be elected, at which point there is no prospect of Trump becoming President again and the question in the run offs is not defeating Trump but stopping Democratic dominance of every branch of the Federal government and the far left pushing their agenda in Congress, which will in turn drive GOP turnout
    A wafer thin margin in both houses is not dominance.
    And the ‘far left’ you talk of is a fever dream - so probably an accurate reflection of current Republican belief.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,767
    Scott_xP said:
    We have been here before, but no deal doesn't require support. It just happens.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    There's a special agency for it, although the coastguard and RN vessels might be involved as well. None of them have very many ships available for effective enforcement, though, given the huge amount and extent of waters involved. The agency has bought 2 (two, as in one and then another) extra vessels in preparation for Brexit.
    Plenty of kippers around the Kent coast who can no doubt be recruited to man the coastguard fishing enforcement vessels
    Lol. Leaving aside all the obvious issues with this nonsense, there simply aren't that many suitably equipped vessels.

    I expect Bozo thinks somebody can simply sit in Whitehall watching the VesselFinder App on an iPad, and hasn't considered that foreign fishing boats might simply turn their transponders off as they cross the invisible border.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Scott_xP said:
    If you don’t like Johnson then the practical effects of No Deal is the best way to see him out of the door.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,447
    edited December 2020

    kjh said:


    Image

    Stop it. Wasted quite a few minutes to find (well not find) a couple of missing States. Can't stop myself from doing it.
    North Dakota South Dakota Pennsylvania New Mexico
    I had already found those ones and then stopped. When I said not found I meant I had found they weren't there, That is I had found they can't be found.

    More time wasted. If this goes much further I might find myself getting out a jigsaw and go the whole hog.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    The Britain of 1982.
    Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.

    The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
    For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.

    You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
    War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.

    Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
    ...and French fishermen? Come the day of your revolution, I hope I am somewhere else!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
    Scott_xP said:
    Not to worry, from late January they will have the Trump News Channel, for all their fake news needs....
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,008
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Either last-minute "climax positioning", or things really are looking bad.
    Given that Brexiteer ministers live in a fantasy world where there are only a couple of half empty ferries a day from Dover to the continent then I suspect these last minute demands were actually always there on the table but the cakists just refuse to acknowledge their existence.
    Katya Adler's report on Marr strongly suggests that Bozo's silly buggers with being prepared to break his previous agreements and international law has hugely damaged trust between the negotiators, and the EU now wants everything tied down. This may be what Frost is claiming are new demands.
    The EU may be demanding that the Internal Markets Bill be dropped. If the government reintroduces the bill on Monday, it's all over.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,039
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    The Britain of 1982.
    Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.

    The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
    You applying for CDS ?

    That would leave you without the resources to retake the newly independent Scotland. Let alone Gibraltar.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,224
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    All waters? How many ships will that take?
    Boris will ban EU fishing boats from all British waters apparently if No Deal
    I know. That's been said. How many ships will it take, and do we have them?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    The Britain of 1982.
    Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.

    The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
    But we would be leaving Scotland ungarrisoned and Gibraltar naked to the Spanish meanwhile....
    We have a bigger navy and military than Spain and Argentina combined, there would still be plenty of police and security forces to deal with any protests which turned violent in Scotland
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,496
    DougSeal said:

    If you don’t like Johnson then the practical effects of No Deal is the best way to see him out of the door.

    This is true, but surely even BoZo has realised that as well?

    If he does a deal, he might get defenestrated.

    If he does no deal, he will get defenestrated.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    The Britain of 1982.
    Well it certainly worked then, as I responded to Dura Ace in his usual anti British whinge in the last thread over the Falklands in the unlikely event Argentina invaded again then we have more ships, planes and aircraft carriers and troops than Argentina.

    The UK government would send a full expeditionary force to the FI, use its submarines to sink every single Argentine ship in the south Atlantic, and then after a period of bombing of and missile attacks on Argentine positions on the islands from the aircraft carriers, send in the paras and special forces to retake the islands exactly as we did in 1982
    For a committed Christian, the value you place on (Argentinian) lives is very much of the Old Testament.

    You'll have the Royal Navy sinking French fishing vessels next!
    War is war, if you are defending your own people then tough measures are necessary, as you correctly mention Moses and God took exactly that perspective when defending the Israelites from the Egyptians for example in the Old Testament.

    Hopefully they will not be needed and Argentina will stick to its position now of accepting that they cannot overturn by force the fact the Falkland Islanders wish to stay British
    ...and French fishermen? Come the day of your revolution, I hope I am somewhere else!
    Was a time the EU would have bought off the French fisherman to get a deal with the UK.

    Was a time they had the UK's money to do it with...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733
    Scott_xP said:
    The first time I have ever agreed with that old hanger and flogger!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 7,914
    HYUFD said:



    Plenty of kippers around the Kent coast who can no doubt be recruited to man the coastguard fishing enforcement vessels

    ..


  • For those who have access Tim Shipman is excellent this morning.

    Basically a deal was there (and a compromise on fishing along the lines I'd suggested, even up to 50%) but then France went in at the 11th hour and shat the bed:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-deal-boris-johnson-sings-waltzing-matilda-but-macrons-not-prepared-to-dance-sskcrtpcf
  • Scott_xP said:
    The first time I have ever agreed with that old hanger and flogger!
    The problem they have is this bonkers tactic is a hangover from Cummings' mad reign. How to ditch without looking like idiots.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1335502869752115204

    Like the story of someone willing to have sex for £1M, but not for £5, the principle of allowing EU boats to fish in UK waters has been conceded, we are just haggling over the price...

    If we go to No Deal then that offer will be withdrawn and as Marr has just mentioned on BBC1 EU fishing boats will be banned from British waters, I presume enforced by the Royal Navy
    All waters? How many ships will that take?
    Boris will ban EU fishing boats from all British waters apparently if No Deal
    So the UK fish and chip shop industry bust within 2 months as most existing supply chains are cut at a stroke?
    No, as all British fish would go to British fish and chip shops, not the continent
This discussion has been closed.