As the counts continue it’s looking pretty certain that Biden will be heading for the White House –
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Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/13247680779391180833 -
Their lease of the centre and car park only runs until tonight.dixiedean said:Biden and Harris to speak to the nation in prime time tonight.
Can only be an acceptance speech.
Would be brave accepting without any major network having called it. Time to put in a call to the CNN analytics desk?0 -
Yes, British legislation always confers powers and responsibilities on "the Secretary of State" without specifying which one so that any SoS can perform the duties of another if they are incapacitated or unavailable.ydoethur said:
Possibly, but the American system is different from ours. We have, technically, only one office of Secretary of State. However, since I think 1660 it has always been held in commission, by several individuals, so they have clearly identified responsibilities delineated by the PM of the day.slade said:
Perhaps it should be.ydoethur said:
Originally, it was the chief executive role in the government, holding the seal of state, and managing all domestic and foreign policy implementation under the direction of the President and Congress. However, over the years all the domestic functions have been transferred to other departments. Unlike in the U.K., however, it has never been renamed.slade said:A question for the PB brains trust. Why is the Foreign Ministry of the USA called the State Department and the Foreign Minister The Secretary of State?
Edit - if you check your passport, you will observe it is issued by ‘Her Britannic Majesty’s Secretary of State,’ with no reference to it being the Foreign Secreatary.
However, in America the new departments are created by legislation, so instead of Secretaries of State for X they have Secretaries for individual jobs,
I don't think that technically there is a single office of Secretary of State that's in commission though, rather there are multiple co-equal Secretaries of State. The offices in commission thing only applies to the historic "Great Officers of State" (as opposed to the informal "Great Offices of State", the PM, CExech, FSec, HSec etc) and of those only Lord High Treasurer is currently in commission, and only Lord High Admiral was ever also in commission as the Lords of the Admiralty until 1964.0 -
Brit working at CNN hast tweeted this.
REJOICE.
https://twitter.com/MatthewWells/status/13247788896888504351 -
"Trump Is Gone. Trumpism Just Arrived
The air has been cleared. And democracy is working.
Andrew Sullivan"
https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/trump-is-gone-trumpism-just-arrived-8860 -
Typical lefty, has to make everything into us vs them! Conflict theory eh?Roger said:
Sorry! You're upset. Your man lost. Be happy that it's made the rest of the world happy.isam said:
Yeah, bit of a joke there Rog, sharpen up!Roger said:
You use 'pale male and stale' yet don't like the use of the word feisty!isam said:
OMG such a lazy stereotype! Men are assertive, but women are "feisty"Roger said:
I imagine she'll be used for other things than attending the funerals of foreign leaders. She strikes me as a real feisty human being.Andy_JS said:I reckon Kamala Harris will be the Democratic candidate next time.
Maybe she'll be used to meet minor leaders Johnson.
Typical pale, stale, male!
Mr Cliche himself!0 -
Hides the smell. Then again can you imagine if it spread by farts? You'd have people wearing no trousers and banging on about their inaliable human right to show off their anus.ydoethur said:
If we’re infected by arseholes, what’s the point in all these bloody masks?dixiedean said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Freedom/liberty in Covid-19 denier world.turbotubbs said:
I have no idea what the link is between masks and poppies. Help?TheScreamingEagles said:It is clear non medically exempt mask non wearers hate Britain.
Let us deport these Britain haters.
https://twitter.com/jennyrickson/status/1324405177416327170
Indeed. Those storming the beaches at Normandy did so for the freedom to be infected and killed by some entitled arsehole in Tesco.TheScreamingEagles said:
Freedom/liberty in Covid-19 denier world.turbotubbs said:
I have no idea what the link is between masks and poppies. Help?TheScreamingEagles said:It is clear non medically exempt mask non wearers hate Britain.
Let us deport these Britain haters.
https://twitter.com/jennyrickson/status/1324405177416327170
Nozick has plenty to answer for.1 -
Bloody hell..its happening again...
Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.0 -
At this point Philadelphia's straining on the bog is starting to get really old.Mal557 said:
In the meantime poor Biden is trying to decide if his speech later will be an acceptance one or 'what Kamala and I did today' one.Anabobazina said:
They’ll want a 0.5pt lead I think - waiting for a nice big ballot dumpnumbertwelve said:CNN are being quite funny now. We can't call PA because Biden is not inevitable. But its inevitable folks. But no call, Trump could catch up. But he won't.
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Congratulations to Joe Biden, the guy who according so some on this forum was too old, too white & probably too straight.
The entire Democratic strategy and Biden's key selling factor was that he could take the Mid West states back. That's what happened so its job done.
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Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.
Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.0 -
Auswärts essen, um zu helfen!FrancisUrquhart said:Germany announced a record 21,506 coronavirus daily infections on Friday, with the death toll rising by 166
Italy also broke its daily record with 37,809 new cases as lockdown measures are introduced in the north
Other countries including Switzerland and Austria have warned their intensive unit beds are already filling0 -
Yes - file with grassy knoll.Nigelb said:
I’ve seen it called a complete myth.justin124 said:
I have seen it suggested that the Illinois result did not prove decisive in 1960 - ie that Kennedy would still have won the Electoral College without it.MrEd said:
One thing we forget over here is the extent to which suspicious practices happen in the States and how they have seriously impacted elections. The result in one Presidential election (1960) was very likely determined by voter fraud (Mayor Daley adding the votes in Cook County) and it's being a problem at various levels. Ironically, one of the major reasons why Hillary could not get a recount in Michigan in 2016 was that state law forbids any precinct being included in the recount where the turnout exceeds the number of registered voters, which was exactly the situation in many of Detroit's precincts (the explanation given at the time was that many of the machines broke down on election day and the scanners, where votes were fed into, may have mistakenly counted ballots twice).numbertwelve said:
Ahh, the old "the dead have voted" schtick. The oldest moan in the book.TheScreamingEagles said:Farage really is a nob.
https://twitter.com/KuperSimon/status/1324655853266522112
If only he had checked out this thread.
https://twitter.com/Ike_Saul/status/1324435797374808066
So before everyone rushes off and says that these are all nut jobs who can't accept defeat, it's worthwhile putting into in the context of what has gone on previously.
And, no, that is not me trying to say "it's rigged!" but it is me trying to explain why many of the establishment Republican politicians are not calling out Trump on this and why, generally so far, the Republican establishment seem behind him.
It's also why this whole saga is likely to drag out.
What recounts & court cases they had actually increased Kennedy’s margin.0 -
The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell..its happening again...
Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.0 -
Tossing, or voting?Carnyx said:
Oh, don't be such a grump. They're, actually, doing it again.ydoethur said:
How do they decide it? Coin?AndreaParma_82 said:SNP Renfrewshire North & West selection ended up with a tie
Would befit a choice between two tossers.0 -
I can't work out if he genuinely thought he was always ahead in the polls and nailed on to win re-election or he thought he had a cunning plan to cancel the wrong result or he is just insane.rottenborough said:Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324768077939118083
I genuinely thought before the election it was all juat get out the vote type tactic, with they might steal if you don't go out in person. I supposed now it could all be just trying to convince his base it had been, and he doesn't believe it...but all his reaction are r3ally stupid from hia future point of view, so maybe he is just nutso.0 -
jeść, żeby pomóc!FrancisUrquhart said:Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.
Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.0 -
The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.0
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Could it have something to with the people who did a runner last time now getting it having returned home?IanB2 said:
The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell..its happening again...
Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.0 -
He is acceptable, under the circumstances.Yokes said:Congratulations to Joe Biden, the guy who according so some on this forum was too old, too white & probably too straight.
The entire Democratic strategy and Biden's key selling factor was that he could take the Mid West states back. That's what happened so its job done.0 -
It's a grim question, but I wonder at the difference between a health system on the verge of meltdown and one with a meltdown.FrancisUrquhart said:Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.
Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.0 -
I think he'd be wise to go for the latter. The message is "let democracy take its course and count every vote... but we're feeling good and starting to turn our thoughts to transition should that be the outcome as we're confident it will be."Mal557 said:
In the meantime poor Biden is trying to decide if his speech later will be an acceptance one or 'what Kamala and I did today' one.Anabobazina said:
They’ll want a 0.5pt lead I think - waiting for a nice big ballot dumpnumbertwelve said:CNN are being quite funny now. We can't call PA because Biden is not inevitable. But its inevitable folks. But no call, Trump could catch up. But he won't.
Declaring victory while counting is ongoing and states are uncalled loses the moral high ground, and fuels conspiracy theories that he "knows" the outcome because he's fixed it. He's in no hurry - he will fairly shortly be declared the winner, can turn to the business of thinking about his first 100 days and doesn't need to jump the gun.
Plus watching Trump flailing about as it crashes down around him is just too much fun - why make an effort to put him out of his misery?1 -
I’m not sure why you think the three are mutually exclusive.FrancisUrquhart said:
I can't work out if he genuinely thought he was always ahead in the polls and nailed on to win re-election or he thought he had a cunning plan to cancel the wrong result or he is just insane.rottenborough said:Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/13247680779391180830 -
Completely amazing that people can turn up outside polling stations with guns and it's legal.....
Get your act together EU the world need some more sophisticated leadership
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I would have assumed they would favour Biden, actually. All the evidence I have seen is that the military consider Trump an utter pillock.theakes said:The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.
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It is an interesting question.IanB2 said:
The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell..its happening again...
Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.0 -
Good to see though, after the "You should be graceful to the losers" bullshit after Leave won, the Remain types cant wait to rub peoples noses in this, even people who couldnt care less!isam said:
Typical lefty, has to make everything into us vs them! Conflict theory eh?Roger said:
Sorry! You're upset. Your man lost. Be happy that it's made the rest of the world happy.isam said:
Yeah, bit of a joke there Rog, sharpen up!Roger said:
You use 'pale male and stale' yet don't like the use of the word feisty!isam said:
OMG such a lazy stereotype! Men are assertive, but women are "feisty"Roger said:
I imagine she'll be used for other things than attending the funerals of foreign leaders. She strikes me as a real feisty human being.Andy_JS said:I reckon Kamala Harris will be the Democratic candidate next time.
Maybe she'll be used to meet minor leaders Johnson.
Typical pale, stale, male!
Mr Cliche himself!0 -
Leicester now up to 167 inpatients with about 10% on ICU*. We peaked at 220 or so in April with 20% or so on ICU. 28 covid admissions yesterday. Things starting to get tight. Next week or two might start to get stressful.FrancisUrquhart said:Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.
Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.
*a few on ICU are transfers in from Nottingham, Leeds and Liverpool, so must be even more stressed there.0 -
My view is it isn't about saving the Presidency but saving his ego.FrancisUrquhart said:
I can't work out if he genuinely thought he was always ahead in the polls and nailed on to win re-election or he thought he had a cunning plan to cancel the wrong result or he is just insane.rottenborough said:Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324768077939118083
I genuinely thought before the election it was all juat get out the vote type tactic, with they might steal if you don't go out in person. I supposed now it could all be just trying to convince his base it had been, and he doesn't believe it...but all his reaction are r3ally stupid from hia future point of view, so maybe he is just nutso.
Above anything else, the thing about Trump is Trump hates Losers. So he cannot possibly BE a Loser or his entire sense of self collapses in on itself. Therefore he constructs a story, which I am sure he's persuaded himself to believe, that he's a Winner. It's annoying to him that not enough people are playing along, but in a sense that's fine as they join the roster of disloyal haters who refuse to acknowledge that he's the rightful President and Winner-extraordinaire. The ego is protected, and he rides off to Mar-a-lago as the Winner he always has been, leaving the Losers in Washington DC.5 -
First thing a successful military needs is to acknowledge reality.ydoethur said:
I would have assumed they would favour Biden, actually. All the evidence I have seen is that the military consider Trump an utter pillock.theakes said:The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.
So I'm confident that you're right.1 -
There are lots of temporary expedients that can be implemented when on the verge to provide increasing numbers of people with necessary care.kle4 said:
It's a grim question, but I wonder at the difference between a health system on the verge of meltdown and one with a meltdown.FrancisUrquhart said:Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.
Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.
For example, in Belgium they were asking staff with a positive test for Covid, but no symptoms to work in Covid wards rather than self-isolate. A desperate measure, but keeps the show on the road for a while longer.
In meltdown would be when you have no such options left, and you start deciding who doesn't receive care.0 -
Trump digging in says CNN. GOP trying to get Supreme Court to block late votes in PA.0
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Possible that NV might count another 50k votes today0
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I guess she doesn't think Sunak will risk going early then?TheScreamingEagles said:Brit working at CNN hast tweeted this.
REJOICE.
https://twitter.com/MatthewWells/status/13247788896888504350 -
We'll show them how counting is done.CarlottaVance said:1 -
But Ivor Cummins and Mike Yeadon assured us that when we’d got to about half the level of infections and deaths they experienced in Lombardy’s first wave, that we’d be very close to herd immunity.IanB2 said:
The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell..its happening again...
Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.
It can’t be that they were both talking arrant bollocks, surely.1 -
Clinton won the Georgia military votes in 2016 (presumably they skew African American), so I'd be very surprised if Biden didn't win them this year.theakes said:The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.
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I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I think that case might be agreed by the SC due to prev actions on these late votes but, theres only 2 or 3000 of them so will make no material difference.rottenborough said:Trump digging in says CNN. GOP trying to get Supreme Court to block late votes in PA.
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It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.1 -
Covid - anyone going to notice the UK isn't doing that badly in the second wave at any point? Although apparently we've already got another 40k deaths "baked in" and Johnson personally murdered several thousand people according to SAGE scientists by failing to have a two week circuit breaker over half term so we'll see.0
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Where did you pick up the figure of 5,000 service ballots from?theakes said:The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.
5 hours ago they were saying that "An additional approximately 8,900 military and overseas absentee ballots have been sent out to requesters but not yet returned. Such ballots, if postmarked by Election Day, can be accepted within three days of Election Day." To me that made the 8,900 figure a theoretical one only that would be far in excess of actual numbers, representing what would happen if ALL 100% of overseas/service ballots were returned AND all of the outstanding 8,900 were received today. I would expect very few of that theoretical 8,900 to be actually received.
Perhaps 5,000 is just the service votes that were yet to be received within the 8,900, because the 8,900 also includes overseas US citizens?
It's worth noting the breakdown of the 8,194 absentee ballots that were yet to be processed was mainly in areas which voted for Biden without them (i.e. more than half in Gwinnett) although that number should be much reduced over the last few hours.
https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/with_8197_votes_out_officials_focused_on_getting_it_right0 -
I'm not sure. Do the Supreme Court really want to be dealing with spurious election related cases for months? Far better to chuck this one out now and disabuse Trump of the idea that they're going to save him. It would also be a wise idea to their credibility to move away from the idea that they'll be a partisan Republican court. And of course bear in mind that this suit has already been rejected by the 3 liberal justices + Roberts. ACB doesn't need to get involved.Mal557 said:
I think that case might be agreed by the SC due to prev actions on these late votes but, theres only 2 or 3000 of them so will make no material difference.rottenborough said:Trump digging in says CNN. GOP trying to get Supreme Court to block late votes in PA.
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People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Betfair update 6pm;
https://betting.betfair.com/politics/us-politics/us-election-betfair-market-settlement-latest-051120-204.html?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
We will only settle the markets when there is certainty around which candidate has the most projected Electoral College votes.
Before settling the markets, we must therefore wait for clarity around ongoing vote counts, recounts and any potential legal challenges to the results.
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Almost as if the tiers were working? Still hubris is a dangerous thing, and there is a long way to go. Plus this is not exactly comparing football results - it’s peoples lives across the continent.alex_ said:Covid - anyone going to notice the UK isn't doing that badly in the second wave at any point? Although apparently we've already got another 40k deaths "baked in" and Johnson personally murdered several thousand people according to SAGE scientists by failing to have a two week circuit breaker over half term so we'll see.
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Its good for the narrative though.Mal557 said:
I think that case might be agreed by the SC due to prev actions on these late votes but, theres only 2 or 3000 of them so will make no material difference.rottenborough said:Trump digging in says CNN. GOP trying to get Supreme Court to block late votes in PA.
Part of what he needs is to convince republican state senators to overturn the popular vote and send Trump delegates to the electoral college. Any court win is great for that.0 -
Axelrod vs Rhoades!Mal557 said:It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.0 -
And anyway they've won't be heavily for Trump. Clinton won with the military last time, and Trump has hardly endeared himself to them since.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Where did you pick up the figure of 5,000 service ballots from?theakes said:The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.
5 hours ago they were saying that "An additional approximately 8,900 military and overseas absentee ballots have been sent out to requesters but not yet returned. Such ballots, if postmarked by Election Day, can be accepted within three days of Election Day." To me that made the 8,900 figure a theoretical one only that would be far in excess of actual numbers, representing what would happen if ALL 100% of overseas/service ballots were returned AND all of the outstanding 8,900 were received today. I would expect very few of that theoretical 8,900 to be actually received.
Perhaps 5,000 is just the service votes that were yet to be received within the 8,900, because the 8,900 also includes overseas US citizens?
It's worth noting the breakdown of the 8,194 absentee ballots that were yet to be processed was mainly in areas which voted for Biden without them (i.e. more than half in Gwinnett) although that number should be much reduced over the last few hours.
https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/with_8197_votes_out_officials_focused_on_getting_it_right0 -
I imagine there will be a few small instances of problems - there would be with an election of such a scale and complexity - and that will be the fuel for the betrayal narrative, where a few minor issues gets implied to mean QAnon scale issues are true.Mal557 said:It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.0 -
Well some of them finish voting and tell you whos won pretty much immediately, where is the fun (or betting angle) on that?tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It does seem that there is a reasonable level of resistance in Bergamo, the epicentre of the first wave. But the cases are still all over the region.Andy_Cooke said:
But Ivor Cummins and Mike Yeadon assured us that when we’d got to about half the level of infections and deaths they experienced in Lombardy’s first wave, that we’d be very close to herd immunity.IanB2 said:
The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell..its happening again...
Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.
It can’t be that they were both talking arrant bollocks, surely.0 -
Well a) Still remains of Fulton and Gwinnet to report b) these are overseas and service ballots. I've been trying to make this point all day. It isn't just military, it's also expatriate Americans who have their registration still in Georgia. They, I would wager, probably don't favour Trump.rcs1000 said:
Clinton won the Georgia military votes in 2016 (presumably they skew African American), so I'd be very surprised if Biden didn't win them this year.theakes said:The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.
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50% language and 50% culturekle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It's colder in the north, as it is in the UK. Could be winter conditions setting in earlier with associated changes in behaviours.FrancisUrquhart said:
It is an interesting question.IanB2 said:
The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell..its happening again...
Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.0 -
That is Trumpism, when his team initially spoke of alternative facts the rest of the world thought it was crazy. But with Trumpism you define the big picture you want and then "create" facts to support the world view. It does not matter a jot whether the facts are true, purely can you get enough people, and the right people, to go along with them.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
My view is it isn't about saving the Presidency but saving his ego.FrancisUrquhart said:
I can't work out if he genuinely thought he was always ahead in the polls and nailed on to win re-election or he thought he had a cunning plan to cancel the wrong result or he is just insane.rottenborough said:Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324768077939118083
I genuinely thought before the election it was all juat get out the vote type tactic, with they might steal if you don't go out in person. I supposed now it could all be just trying to convince his base it had been, and he doesn't believe it...but all his reaction are r3ally stupid from hia future point of view, so maybe he is just nutso.
Above anything else, the thing about Trump is Trump hates Losers. So he cannot possibly BE a Loser or his entire sense of self collapses in on itself. Therefore he constructs a story, which I am sure he's persuaded himself to believe, that he's a Winner. It's annoying to him that not enough people are playing along, but in a sense that's fine as they join the roster of disloyal haters who refuse to acknowledge that he's the rightful President and Winner-extraordinaire. The ego is protected, and he rides off to Mar-a-lago as the Winner he always has been, leaving the Losers in Washington DC.1 -
Yes. But not just ego. His commercial and political brand post Jan requires him to hold the adoration of his base. "Loser" does not work for this.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
My view is it isn't about saving the Presidency but saving his ego.FrancisUrquhart said:
I can't work out if he genuinely thought he was always ahead in the polls and nailed on to win re-election or he thought he had a cunning plan to cancel the wrong result or he is just insane.rottenborough said:Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324768077939118083
I genuinely thought before the election it was all juat get out the vote type tactic, with they might steal if you don't go out in person. I supposed now it could all be just trying to convince his base it had been, and he doesn't believe it...but all his reaction are r3ally stupid from hia future point of view, so maybe he is just nutso.
Above anything else, the thing about Trump is Trump hates Losers. So he cannot possibly BE a Loser or his entire sense of self collapses in on itself. Therefore he constructs a story, which I am sure he's persuaded himself to believe, that he's a Winner. It's annoying to him that not enough people are playing along, but in a sense that's fine as they join the roster of disloyal haters who refuse to acknowledge that he's the rightful President and Winner-extraordinaire. The ego is protected, and he rides off to Mar-a-lago as the Winner he always has been, leaving the Losers in Washington DC.0 -
GA SoS confirms a recount almost certain
0 -
The first danger point is this weekend, the key swing states will be called and people have the weekend to digest or protest. If Trump can directly or indirectly raise a street activist movement in some way we might get indications this weekend but trouble on the street of any notable kind will really do it for him. Mass dusts up are unlikely, the greater risk is five loons who dress in combat gear (they will call it tactical gear) on weekends shooting someone in an organised attack. Again Trump will be tagged with it and will really cause damage.Mal557 said:It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.
This is being almost entirely driven by Trump himself with his family and I get it, this is more than just ego or a sense of grievance. Trump knows that it isn't likely to be a quiet retirement and lecture tours and he could potentially be ruined. As far as the Trump family is concerned they are fighting for their lives, at least as they know it.
The top echelons of the GOP will simply keep things bland because Trump still has two months in the White House and they do fear that Trumpites but the gap that Biden has looks likely to work for them as much as the Democrats because it helps amplify the sense that things are done.
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0
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That fits for Ireland as well, but the UK does not go nuts about the Irish elections.IanB2 said:
50% language and 50% culturekle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
The US prez election manages to be the most important and compelling in the democratic world, and also the most tedious, protracted and shite.
This is Day 3 FFS. I thought Americans were meant to be good at Puttin on a Show0 -
Which is good news for the other side of the second lockdown. We'll only be in a better position for these four weeks, at least in terms of covid stats.turbotubbs said:
Almost as if the tiers were working? Still hubris is a dangerous thing, and there is a long way to go. Plus this is not exactly comparing football results - it’s peoples lives across the continent.alex_ said:Covid - anyone going to notice the UK isn't doing that badly in the second wave at any point? Although apparently we've already got another 40k deaths "baked in" and Johnson personally murdered several thousand people according to SAGE scientists by failing to have a two week circuit breaker over half term so we'll see.
0 -
Also the size of the USA.IanB2 said:
50% language and 50% culturekle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:
Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.0 -
I believe Madrid, Bergamo and maybe NYC all reached that stage in Wave 1LostPassword said:
There are lots of temporary expedients that can be implemented when on the verge to provide increasing numbers of people with necessary care.kle4 said:
It's a grim question, but I wonder at the difference between a health system on the verge of meltdown and one with a meltdown.FrancisUrquhart said:Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.
Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.
For example, in Belgium they were asking staff with a positive test for Covid, but no symptoms to work in Covid wards rather than self-isolate. A desperate measure, but keeps the show on the road for a while longer.
In meltdown would be when you have no such options left, and you start deciding who doesn't receive care.0 -
Trumps niece on Ch4 at the moment is good value. She doesn't like him!
"He's President for 76 days. If Donald is going down he's going to take the rest of us down with him"1 -
NBC News has an election official in Georgia reading out bit of a spreadsheet...0
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I don't think NYC reached the care rationing stage. Somewhere in Utah was reportedly close to it recently but I don't know if they actually had to.LadyG said:
I believe Madrid, Bergamo and maybe NYC all reached that stage in Wave 1LostPassword said:
There are lots of temporary expedients that can be implemented when on the verge to provide increasing numbers of people with necessary care.kle4 said:
It's a grim question, but I wonder at the difference between a health system on the verge of meltdown and one with a meltdown.FrancisUrquhart said:Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.
Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.
For example, in Belgium they were asking staff with a positive test for Covid, but no symptoms to work in Covid wards rather than self-isolate. A desperate measure, but keeps the show on the road for a while longer.
In meltdown would be when you have no such options left, and you start deciding who doesn't receive care.0 -
US population = 330m, Ireland = 5meristdoof said:
That fits for Ireland as well, but the UK does not go nuts about the Irish elections.IanB2 said:
50% language and 50% culturekle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It is maybe reasonable, at a stretch, for a pivotal and bizarre presidential US election,kle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:
But it doesn't end there. We obsess about US politics right down to George Floyd, SAT scores and policing policies, which has the cube root of feck all to do with us.
And we import the toxic culture wars that surround all this, to our detriment, the same way we import totally alien traditions like "Black Friday" - based on Thanksgiving!
Enough now. America has been toppled. China is now clearly the world's leading power, Asia is the centre of the global economy. This election has done nothing but underline that. Time to recalibrate.-1 -
A network needs to call this race before the weekend.2
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Yes, and we also tend to underestimate the extent to which other European countries also focus on the US presidential elections because we falsely think our own interest is an expression of our particular cultural affinity.Philip_Thompson said:
Also the size of the USA.IanB2 said:
50% language and 50% culturekle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:
Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.0 -
It's very hard to discern the motives of a narcissist such as Trump. Not all his actions can be put down to rational motives.Yokes said:
The first danger point is this weekend, the key swing states will be called and people have the weekend to digest or protest. If Trump can directly or indirectly raise a street activist movement in some way we might get indications this weekend but trouble on the street of any notable kind will really do it for him. Mass dusts up are unlikely, the greater risk is five loons who dress in combat gear (they will call it tactical gear) on weekends shooting someone in an organised attack. Again Trump will be tagged with it and will really cause damage.Mal557 said:It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.
This is being almost entirely driven by Trump himself with his family and I get it, this is more than just ego or a sense of grievance. Trump knows that it isn't likely to be a quiet retirement and lecture tours and he could potentially be ruined. As far as the Trump family is concerned they are fighting for their lives, at least as they know it.
The top echelons of the GOP will simply keep things bland because Trump still has two months in the White House and they do fear that Trumpites but the gap that Biden has looks likely to work for them as much as the Democrats because it helps amplify the sense that things are done.
I think the Republican heirarchy will be praying that at some point soon he will give up and go off in a sulk while the Democrats should be hoping that he continues to throw his toys out of the pram like the spoilt brat he is. The failure of Trump to go with good grace is frankly disgracing both him and those Republicans who feel too compromised to push him towards the door in public. With two critical Senate run off races looming, that is not a good look.
0 -
If one of the TV networks bought the rights to show a high-budget Chinese TV series, it would do a lot to make the rise of China more visible to people.LadyG said:
It is maybe reasonable, at a stretch, for a pivotal and bizarre presidential US election,kle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:
But it doesn't end there. We obsess about US politics right down to George Floyd, SAT scores and policing policies, which has the cube root of feck all to do with us.
And we import the toxic culture wars that surround all this, to our detriment, the same way we import totally alien traditions like "Black Friday" - based on Thanksgiving!
Enough now. America has been toppled. China is now clearly the world's leading power, Asia is the centre of the global economy. This election has done nothing but underline that. Time to recalibrate.0 -
They are all making the same psychological error. Believing that America matters as much as it did. Perhaps, I suspect, because they want to. It is a comforting lie.williamglenn said:
Yes, and we also tend to underestimate the extent to which other European countries also focus on the US presidential elections because we falsely think our own interest is an expression of our particular cultural affinity.Philip_Thompson said:
Also the size of the USA.IanB2 said:
50% language and 50% culturekle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:
Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.
The big bad man/great good man in the White House is in charge of the world. Yay. So if anything REALLY goes wrong Uncle Sam wlll wade in - reluctantly - and sort it out. And we can all go back to sleep/work/the bottle. Even the madman Trump is better than no American hyperpower at all.
That era has just passed. Uncle Xi is, if anything, the more powerful figure. And he rises all the time. And he is scary in a way even Trump is not, so we prefer to look away and look West instead.1 -
After the very early call for Hillary by a couple of networks last time, no one is willing.Alistair said:A network needs to call this race before the weekend.
0 -
Been having a long liquid dinner.
Great white burgundy.
Can anyone explain to me why this is dragging on? WTF is going on in:
AZ
NV
PA
FFS.1 -
It has long passed the point of inevitability. I'm really not sure what the holdup is.Alistair said:A network needs to call this race before the weekend.
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Something a UK constituency does in c. 5hours each General Election. They are US in the US.IanB2 said:Possible that NV might count another 50k votes today
2 -
The networks are just BIDEN their time.numbertwelve said:
It has long passed the point of inevitability. I'm really not sure what the holdup is.Alistair said:A network needs to call this race before the weekend.
3 -
You also see it in the persistence of the Cold War anachronism of 'the leader of the free world', which Americans are just as guilty of clinging to.LadyG said:
They are all making the same psychological error. Believing that America matters as much as it did. Perhaps, I suspect, because they want to. It is a comforting lie.williamglenn said:
Yes, and we also tend to underestimate the extent to which other European countries also focus on the US presidential elections because we falsely think our own interest is an expression of our particular cultural affinity.Philip_Thompson said:
Also the size of the USA.IanB2 said:
50% language and 50% culturekle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:
Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.
The big bad man/great good man in the White House is in charge of the world. Yay. So if anything REALLY goes wrong Uncle Sam wlll wade in - reluctantly - and sort it out. And we can all go back to sleep/work/the bottle. Even the madman Trump is better than no American hyperpower at all.
That era has just passed. Uncle Xi is, if anything, the more powerful figure. And he rises all the time. And he is scary in a way even Trump is not, so we prefer to look away and look West instead.0 -
CNN now explaining why/when they’re going to call it. Must have heard us.0
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Yes but that is the point, the US is still the largest economy with the most powerful military and will always be in the top 3 global powers alongside China and most likely in a few decades India.LadyG said:
They are all making the same psychological error. Believing that America matters as much as it did. Perhaps, I suspect, because they want to. It is a comforting lie.williamglenn said:
Yes, and we also tend to underestimate the extent to which other European countries also focus on the US presidential elections because we falsely think our own interest is an expression of our particular cultural affinity.Philip_Thompson said:
Also the size of the USA.IanB2 said:
50% language and 50% culturekle4 said:
People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.tlg86 said:
I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.CarlottaVance said:
Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.
The big bad man/great good man in the White House is in charge of the world. Yay. So if anything REALLY goes wrong Uncle Sam wlll wade in - reluctantly - and sort it out. And we can all go back to sleep/work/the bottle. Even the madman Trump is better than no American hyperpower at all.
That era has just passed. Uncle Xi is, if anything, the more powerful figure. And he rises all the time. And he is scary in a way even Trump is not, so we prefer to look away and look West instead.
China doesn't have elections other than backroom deals to appoint the next in line rubber stamped by the party so the US election will always be of most interest0 -
Is Fox the only network that has called AZ? And with AZ he only needs NV?
Must be guaranteed soon that Biden has won NV so perhaps the other networks are holding off until NV has to be called by everyone thus making Fox have to be the one that calls the Presidency for Biden?0 -
We should propose an exchange programme - they give us John King and the Magic Wall, we give them the Sunderland counting team.8
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They have been saying Biden is going to win for hours (we have known this for at least a DAY) but they're not willing to put their money where their mouth is for some reason.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:CNN now explaining why/when they’re going to call it. Must have heard us.
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https://twitter.com/petridishes/status/1324461569753993216?s=19TheScreamingEagles said:
The networks are just BIDEN their time.numbertwelve said:
It has long passed the point of inevitability. I'm really not sure what the holdup is.Alistair said:A network needs to call this race before the weekend.
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On of these networks needs to just do their job and call it. This is getting ridiculous.0
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Is there a market on if PA will be called before our lockdown ends?
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I bet you the Murdochs are absolutely kicking themselves - or more likely someone else - for Fox calling AZ. It's meant that, if NV is called, they have to call this for Biden, thus almost certainly triggering an explosion from Trump and almost certainly the setting up of a rival TV channelPhilip_Thompson said:Is Fox the only network that has called AZ? And with AZ he only needs NV?
Must be guaranteed soon that Biden has won NV so perhaps the other networks are holding off until NV has to be called by everyone thus making Fox have to be the one that calls the Presidency for Biden?0 -
Only network yes though AP did as wellPhilip_Thompson said:Is Fox the only network that has called AZ? And with AZ he only needs NV?
Must be guaranteed soon that Biden has won NV so perhaps the other networks are holding off until NV has to be called by everyone thus making Fox have to be the one that calls the Presidency for Biden?0 -
Trump may hold out until every vote has been counted - rather than accepting the network calls. That could take quite a few days.0
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If I was a US TV network just now I would announce that I was about to declare a state for Biden in 5 minutes and then call Alaska for Biden.1
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Sounds like she is typing a memo to the Pentagon.Roger said:Trumps niece on Ch4 at the moment is good value. She doesn't like him!
"He's President for 76 days. If Donald is going down he's going to take the rest of us down with him"0
This discussion has been closed.