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As the counts continue it’s looking pretty certain that Biden will be heading for the White House –

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  • Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324768077939118083
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    dixiedean said:

    Biden and Harris to speak to the nation in prime time tonight.
    Can only be an acceptance speech.

    Their lease of the centre and car park only runs until tonight.

    Would be brave accepting without any major network having called it. Time to put in a call to the CNN analytics desk?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    ydoethur said:

    slade said:

    ydoethur said:

    slade said:

    A question for the PB brains trust. Why is the Foreign Ministry of the USA called the State Department and the Foreign Minister The Secretary of State?

    Originally, it was the chief executive role in the government, holding the seal of state, and managing all domestic and foreign policy implementation under the direction of the President and Congress. However, over the years all the domestic functions have been transferred to other departments. Unlike in the U.K., however, it has never been renamed.

    Edit - if you check your passport, you will observe it is issued by ‘Her Britannic Majesty’s Secretary of State,’ with no reference to it being the Foreign Secreatary.
    Perhaps it should be.
    Possibly, but the American system is different from ours. We have, technically, only one office of Secretary of State. However, since I think 1660 it has always been held in commission, by several individuals, so they have clearly identified responsibilities delineated by the PM of the day.

    However, in America the new departments are created by legislation, so instead of Secretaries of State for X they have Secretaries for individual jobs,
    Yes, British legislation always confers powers and responsibilities on "the Secretary of State" without specifying which one so that any SoS can perform the duties of another if they are incapacitated or unavailable.

    I don't think that technically there is a single office of Secretary of State that's in commission though, rather there are multiple co-equal Secretaries of State. The offices in commission thing only applies to the historic "Great Officers of State" (as opposed to the informal "Great Offices of State", the PM, CExech, FSec, HSec etc) and of those only Lord High Treasurer is currently in commission, and only Lord High Admiral was ever also in commission as the Lords of the Admiralty until 1964.
  • Brit working at CNN hast tweeted this.

    REJOICE.

    https://twitter.com/MatthewWells/status/1324778889688850435
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594
    "Trump Is Gone. Trumpism Just Arrived
    The air has been cleared. And democracy is working.
    Andrew Sullivan"

    https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/trump-is-gone-trumpism-just-arrived-886
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Roger said:

    isam said:

    Roger said:

    isam said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I reckon Kamala Harris will be the Democratic candidate next time.

    I imagine she'll be used for other things than attending the funerals of foreign leaders. She strikes me as a real feisty human being.

    Maybe she'll be used to meet minor leaders Johnson.
    OMG such a lazy stereotype! Men are assertive, but women are "feisty"

    Typical pale, stale, male!
    You use 'pale male and stale' yet don't like the use of the word feisty!

    Mr Cliche himself!
    Yeah, bit of a joke there Rog, sharpen up!
    Sorry! You're upset. Your man lost. Be happy that it's made the rest of the world happy.
    Typical lefty, has to make everything into us vs them! Conflict theory eh?
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    It is clear non medically exempt mask non wearers hate Britain.

    Let us deport these Britain haters.

    https://twitter.com/jennyrickson/status/1324405177416327170

    I have no idea what the link is between masks and poppies. Help?
    Freedom/liberty in Covid-19 denier world.

    It is clear non medically exempt mask non wearers hate Britain.

    Let us deport these Britain haters.

    https://twitter.com/jennyrickson/status/1324405177416327170

    I have no idea what the link is between masks and poppies. Help?
    Freedom/liberty in Covid-19 denier world.
    Indeed. Those storming the beaches at Normandy did so for the freedom to be infected and killed by some entitled arsehole in Tesco.
    Nozick has plenty to answer for.
    If we’re infected by arseholes, what’s the point in all these bloody masks?
    Hides the smell. Then again can you imagine if it spread by farts? You'd have people wearing no trousers and banging on about their inaliable human right to show off their anus.
  • Bloody hell..its happening again...

    Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Mal557 said:

    CNN are being quite funny now. We can't call PA because Biden is not inevitable. But its inevitable folks. But no call, Trump could catch up. But he won't.

    They’ll want a 0.5pt lead I think - waiting for a nice big ballot dump
    In the meantime poor Biden is trying to decide if his speech later will be an acceptance one or 'what Kamala and I did today' one.
    At this point Philadelphia's straining on the bog is starting to get really old.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    edited November 2020
    Congratulations to Joe Biden, the guy who according so some on this forum was too old, too white & probably too straight.

    The entire Democratic strategy and Biden's key selling factor was that he could take the Mid West states back. That's what happened so its job done.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,106
    edited November 2020
    Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.

    Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Germany announced a record 21,506 coronavirus daily infections on Friday, with the death toll rising by 166

    Italy also broke its daily record with 37,809 new cases as lockdown measures are introduced in the north

    Other countries including Switzerland and Austria have warned their intensive unit beds are already filling

    Auswärts essen, um zu helfen!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Nigelb said:

    justin124 said:

    MrEd said:

    Ahh, the old "the dead have voted" schtick. The oldest moan in the book.
    One thing we forget over here is the extent to which suspicious practices happen in the States and how they have seriously impacted elections. The result in one Presidential election (1960) was very likely determined by voter fraud (Mayor Daley adding the votes in Cook County) and it's being a problem at various levels. Ironically, one of the major reasons why Hillary could not get a recount in Michigan in 2016 was that state law forbids any precinct being included in the recount where the turnout exceeds the number of registered voters, which was exactly the situation in many of Detroit's precincts (the explanation given at the time was that many of the machines broke down on election day and the scanners, where votes were fed into, may have mistakenly counted ballots twice).

    So before everyone rushes off and says that these are all nut jobs who can't accept defeat, it's worthwhile putting into in the context of what has gone on previously.

    And, no, that is not me trying to say "it's rigged!" but it is me trying to explain why many of the establishment Republican politicians are not calling out Trump on this and why, generally so far, the Republican establishment seem behind him.

    It's also why this whole saga is likely to drag out.

    I have seen it suggested that the Illinois result did not prove decisive in 1960 - ie that Kennedy would still have won the Electoral College without it.
    I’ve seen it called a complete myth.
    What recounts & court cases they had actually increased Kennedy’s margin.
    Yes - file with grassy knoll.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Bloody hell..its happening again...

    Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.

    The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    SNP Renfrewshire North & West selection ended up with a tie

    How do they decide it? Coin?

    Would befit a choice between two tossers.
    Oh, don't be such a grump. They're, actually, doing it again.
    Tossing, or voting?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,106
    edited November 2020

    Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324768077939118083

    I can't work out if he genuinely thought he was always ahead in the polls and nailed on to win re-election or he thought he had a cunning plan to cancel the wrong result or he is just insane.

    I genuinely thought before the election it was all juat get out the vote type tactic, with they might steal if you don't go out in person. I supposed now it could all be just trying to convince his base it had been, and he doesn't believe it...but all his reaction are r3ally stupid from hia future point of view, so maybe he is just nutso.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.

    Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.

    jeść, żeby pomóc!
  • theakestheakes Posts: 931
    The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    IanB2 said:

    Bloody hell..its happening again...

    Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.

    The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.
    Could it have something to with the people who did a runner last time now getting it having returned home?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Yokes said:

    Congratulations to Joe Biden, the guy who according so some on this forum was too old, too white & probably too straight.

    The entire Democratic strategy and Biden's key selling factor was that he could take the Mid West states back. That's what happened so its job done.

    He is acceptable, under the circumstances.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131

    Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.

    Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.

    It's a grim question, but I wonder at the difference between a health system on the verge of meltdown and one with a meltdown.
  • Mal557 said:

    CNN are being quite funny now. We can't call PA because Biden is not inevitable. But its inevitable folks. But no call, Trump could catch up. But he won't.

    They’ll want a 0.5pt lead I think - waiting for a nice big ballot dump
    In the meantime poor Biden is trying to decide if his speech later will be an acceptance one or 'what Kamala and I did today' one.
    I think he'd be wise to go for the latter. The message is "let democracy take its course and count every vote... but we're feeling good and starting to turn our thoughts to transition should that be the outcome as we're confident it will be."

    Declaring victory while counting is ongoing and states are uncalled loses the moral high ground, and fuels conspiracy theories that he "knows" the outcome because he's fixed it. He's in no hurry - he will fairly shortly be declared the winner, can turn to the business of thinking about his first 100 days and doesn't need to jump the gun.

    Plus watching Trump flailing about as it crashes down around him is just too much fun - why make an effort to put him out of his misery?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324768077939118083

    I can't work out if he genuinely thought he was always ahead in the polls and nailed on to win re-election or he thought he had a cunning plan to cancel the wrong result or he is just insane.
    I’m not sure why you think the three are mutually exclusive.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Completely amazing that people can turn up outside polling stations with guns and it's legal.....

    Get your act together EU the world need some more sophisticated leadership

  • IanB2 said:

    Bloody hell..its happening again...

    Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.

    The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.
    It is an interesting question.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    Roger said:

    isam said:

    Roger said:

    isam said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I reckon Kamala Harris will be the Democratic candidate next time.

    I imagine she'll be used for other things than attending the funerals of foreign leaders. She strikes me as a real feisty human being.

    Maybe she'll be used to meet minor leaders Johnson.
    OMG such a lazy stereotype! Men are assertive, but women are "feisty"

    Typical pale, stale, male!
    You use 'pale male and stale' yet don't like the use of the word feisty!

    Mr Cliche himself!
    Yeah, bit of a joke there Rog, sharpen up!
    Sorry! You're upset. Your man lost. Be happy that it's made the rest of the world happy.
    Typical lefty, has to make everything into us vs them! Conflict theory eh?
    Good to see though, after the "You should be graceful to the losers" bullshit after Leave won, the Remain types cant wait to rub peoples noses in this, even people who couldnt care less!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,719

    Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.

    Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.

    Leicester now up to 167 inpatients with about 10% on ICU*. We peaked at 220 or so in April with 20% or so on ICU. 28 covid admissions yesterday. Things starting to get tight. Next week or two might start to get stressful.

    *a few on ICU are transfers in from Nottingham, Leeds and Liverpool, so must be even more stressed there.
  • ydoethur said:

    theakes said:

    The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.

    I would have assumed they would favour Biden, actually. All the evidence I have seen is that the military consider Trump an utter pillock.
    First thing a successful military needs is to acknowledge reality.

    So I'm confident that you're right.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,427
    kle4 said:

    Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.

    Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.

    It's a grim question, but I wonder at the difference between a health system on the verge of meltdown and one with a meltdown.
    There are lots of temporary expedients that can be implemented when on the verge to provide increasing numbers of people with necessary care.

    For example, in Belgium they were asking staff with a positive test for Covid, but no symptoms to work in Covid wards rather than self-isolate. A desperate measure, but keeps the show on the road for a while longer.

    In meltdown would be when you have no such options left, and you start deciding who doesn't receive care.
  • Trump digging in says CNN. GOP trying to get Supreme Court to block late votes in PA.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Possible that NV might count another 50k votes today
  • Brit working at CNN hast tweeted this.

    REJOICE.

    https://twitter.com/MatthewWells/status/1324778889688850435

    I guess she doesn't think Sunak will risk going early then?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    IanB2 said:

    Bloody hell..its happening again...

    Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.

    The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.
    But Ivor Cummins and Mike Yeadon assured us that when we’d got to about half the level of infections and deaths they experienced in Lombardy’s first wave, that we’d be very close to herd immunity.

    It can’t be that they were both talking arrant bollocks, surely.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    theakes said:

    The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.

    Clinton won the Georgia military votes in 2016 (presumably they skew African American), so I'd be very surprised if Biden didn't win them this year.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    Trump digging in says CNN. GOP trying to get Supreme Court to block late votes in PA.

    I think that case might be agreed by the SC due to prev actions on these late votes but, theres only 2 or 3000 of them so will make no material difference.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
    Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Covid - anyone going to notice the UK isn't doing that badly in the second wave at any point? Although apparently we've already got another 40k deaths "baked in" and Johnson personally murdered several thousand people according to SAGE scientists by failing to have a two week circuit breaker over half term so we'll see.
  • theakes said:

    The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.

    Where did you pick up the figure of 5,000 service ballots from?

    5 hours ago they were saying that "An additional approximately 8,900 military and overseas absentee ballots have been sent out to requesters but not yet returned. Such ballots, if postmarked by Election Day, can be accepted within three days of Election Day." To me that made the 8,900 figure a theoretical one only that would be far in excess of actual numbers, representing what would happen if ALL 100% of overseas/service ballots were returned AND all of the outstanding 8,900 were received today. I would expect very few of that theoretical 8,900 to be actually received.

    Perhaps 5,000 is just the service votes that were yet to be received within the 8,900, because the 8,900 also includes overseas US citizens?

    It's worth noting the breakdown of the 8,194 absentee ballots that were yet to be processed was mainly in areas which voted for Biden without them (i.e. more than half in Gwinnett) although that number should be much reduced over the last few hours.

    https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/with_8197_votes_out_officials_focused_on_getting_it_right
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020
    Mal557 said:

    Trump digging in says CNN. GOP trying to get Supreme Court to block late votes in PA.

    I think that case might be agreed by the SC due to prev actions on these late votes but, theres only 2 or 3000 of them so will make no material difference.
    I'm not sure. Do the Supreme Court really want to be dealing with spurious election related cases for months? Far better to chuck this one out now and disabuse Trump of the idea that they're going to save him. It would also be a wise idea to their credibility to move away from the idea that they'll be a partisan Republican court. And of course bear in mind that this suit has already been rejected by the 3 liberal justices + Roberts. ACB doesn't need to get involved.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited November 2020
    Betfair update 6pm;

    https://betting.betfair.com/politics/us-politics/us-election-betfair-market-settlement-latest-051120-204.html?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

    We will only settle the markets when there is certainty around which candidate has the most projected Electoral College votes.

    Before settling the markets, we must therefore wait for clarity around ongoing vote counts, recounts and any potential legal challenges to the results.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,465
    alex_ said:

    Covid - anyone going to notice the UK isn't doing that badly in the second wave at any point? Although apparently we've already got another 40k deaths "baked in" and Johnson personally murdered several thousand people according to SAGE scientists by failing to have a two week circuit breaker over half term so we'll see.

    Almost as if the tiers were working? Still hubris is a dangerous thing, and there is a long way to go. Plus this is not exactly comparing football results - it’s peoples lives across the continent.
  • Mal557 said:

    Trump digging in says CNN. GOP trying to get Supreme Court to block late votes in PA.

    I think that case might be agreed by the SC due to prev actions on these late votes but, theres only 2 or 3000 of them so will make no material difference.
    Its good for the narrative though.

    Part of what he needs is to convince republican state senators to overturn the popular vote and send Trump delegates to the electoral college. Any court win is great for that.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Mal557 said:

    It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
    Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.

    Axelrod vs Rhoades!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518


    theakes said:

    The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.

    Where did you pick up the figure of 5,000 service ballots from?

    5 hours ago they were saying that "An additional approximately 8,900 military and overseas absentee ballots have been sent out to requesters but not yet returned. Such ballots, if postmarked by Election Day, can be accepted within three days of Election Day." To me that made the 8,900 figure a theoretical one only that would be far in excess of actual numbers, representing what would happen if ALL 100% of overseas/service ballots were returned AND all of the outstanding 8,900 were received today. I would expect very few of that theoretical 8,900 to be actually received.

    Perhaps 5,000 is just the service votes that were yet to be received within the 8,900, because the 8,900 also includes overseas US citizens?

    It's worth noting the breakdown of the 8,194 absentee ballots that were yet to be processed was mainly in areas which voted for Biden without them (i.e. more than half in Gwinnett) although that number should be much reduced over the last few hours.

    https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/with_8197_votes_out_officials_focused_on_getting_it_right
    And anyway they've won't be heavily for Trump. Clinton won with the military last time, and Trump has hardly endeared himself to them since.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    Mal557 said:

    It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
    Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.

    I imagine there will be a few small instances of problems - there would be with an election of such a scale and complexity - and that will be the fuel for the betrayal narrative, where a few minor issues gets implied to mean QAnon scale issues are true.
  • tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    Well some of them finish voting and tell you whos won pretty much immediately, where is the fun (or betting angle) on that?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    Bloody hell..its happening again...

    Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.

    The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.
    But Ivor Cummins and Mike Yeadon assured us that when we’d got to about half the level of infections and deaths they experienced in Lombardy’s first wave, that we’d be very close to herd immunity.

    It can’t be that they were both talking arrant bollocks, surely.
    It does seem that there is a reasonable level of resistance in Bergamo, the epicentre of the first wave. But the cases are still all over the region.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    rcs1000 said:

    theakes said:

    The Georgia officials say there are about 5,000 service votes to be counted, one would assume they would be heavily for Trum, so in the end he should be in the lead there, but not enough to prevent the statutary recount.

    Clinton won the Georgia military votes in 2016 (presumably they skew African American), so I'd be very surprised if Biden didn't win them this year.
    Well a) Still remains of Fulton and Gwinnet to report b) these are overseas and service ballots. I've been trying to make this point all day. It isn't just military, it's also expatriate Americans who have their registration still in Georgia. They, I would wager, probably don't favour Trump.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    50% language and 50% culture
  • IanB2 said:

    Bloody hell..its happening again...

    Lombardy, one of the regions, reported nearly 10,000 new cases on Friday.

    The notable thing about Italy is that the principal two regions getting hit by the second wave are those that took the first wave. Whereas elsewhere it tends to be levelling up,- for example NYC and London aren’t the focuses of the second wave.
    It is an interesting question.
    It's colder in the north, as it is in the UK. Could be winter conditions setting in earlier with associated changes in behaviours.
  • Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324768077939118083

    I can't work out if he genuinely thought he was always ahead in the polls and nailed on to win re-election or he thought he had a cunning plan to cancel the wrong result or he is just insane.

    I genuinely thought before the election it was all juat get out the vote type tactic, with they might steal if you don't go out in person. I supposed now it could all be just trying to convince his base it had been, and he doesn't believe it...but all his reaction are r3ally stupid from hia future point of view, so maybe he is just nutso.
    My view is it isn't about saving the Presidency but saving his ego.

    Above anything else, the thing about Trump is Trump hates Losers. So he cannot possibly BE a Loser or his entire sense of self collapses in on itself. Therefore he constructs a story, which I am sure he's persuaded himself to believe, that he's a Winner. It's annoying to him that not enough people are playing along, but in a sense that's fine as they join the roster of disloyal haters who refuse to acknowledge that he's the rightful President and Winner-extraordinaire. The ego is protected, and he rides off to Mar-a-lago as the Winner he always has been, leaving the Losers in Washington DC.
    That is Trumpism, when his team initially spoke of alternative facts the rest of the world thought it was crazy. But with Trumpism you define the big picture you want and then "create" facts to support the world view. It does not matter a jot whether the facts are true, purely can you get enough people, and the right people, to go along with them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Oh bless. He thinks the military will save him. After everything he's done to them.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324768077939118083

    I can't work out if he genuinely thought he was always ahead in the polls and nailed on to win re-election or he thought he had a cunning plan to cancel the wrong result or he is just insane.

    I genuinely thought before the election it was all juat get out the vote type tactic, with they might steal if you don't go out in person. I supposed now it could all be just trying to convince his base it had been, and he doesn't believe it...but all his reaction are r3ally stupid from hia future point of view, so maybe he is just nutso.
    My view is it isn't about saving the Presidency but saving his ego.

    Above anything else, the thing about Trump is Trump hates Losers. So he cannot possibly BE a Loser or his entire sense of self collapses in on itself. Therefore he constructs a story, which I am sure he's persuaded himself to believe, that he's a Winner. It's annoying to him that not enough people are playing along, but in a sense that's fine as they join the roster of disloyal haters who refuse to acknowledge that he's the rightful President and Winner-extraordinaire. The ego is protected, and he rides off to Mar-a-lago as the Winner he always has been, leaving the Losers in Washington DC.
    Yes. But not just ego. His commercial and political brand post Jan requires him to hold the adoration of his base. "Loser" does not work for this.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    GA SoS confirms a recount almost certain
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    Mal557 said:

    It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
    Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.

    The first danger point is this weekend, the key swing states will be called and people have the weekend to digest or protest. If Trump can directly or indirectly raise a street activist movement in some way we might get indications this weekend but trouble on the street of any notable kind will really do it for him. Mass dusts up are unlikely, the greater risk is five loons who dress in combat gear (they will call it tactical gear) on weekends shooting someone in an organised attack. Again Trump will be tagged with it and will really cause damage.

    This is being almost entirely driven by Trump himself with his family and I get it, this is more than just ego or a sense of grievance. Trump knows that it isn't likely to be a quiet retirement and lecture tours and he could potentially be ruined. As far as the Trump family is concerned they are fighting for their lives, at least as they know it.

    The top echelons of the GOP will simply keep things bland because Trump still has two months in the White House and they do fear that Trumpites but the gap that Biden has looks likely to work for them as much as the Democrats because it helps amplify the sense that things are done.
  • IanB2 said:

    GA SoS confirms a recount almost certain

    But them's the rules, aren't they?

  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    50% language and 50% culture
    That fits for Ireland as well, but the UK does not go nuts about the Irish elections.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    The US prez election manages to be the most important and compelling in the democratic world, and also the most tedious, protracted and shite.

    This is Day 3 FFS. I thought Americans were meant to be good at Puttin on a Show
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    alex_ said:

    Covid - anyone going to notice the UK isn't doing that badly in the second wave at any point? Although apparently we've already got another 40k deaths "baked in" and Johnson personally murdered several thousand people according to SAGE scientists by failing to have a two week circuit breaker over half term so we'll see.

    Almost as if the tiers were working? Still hubris is a dangerous thing, and there is a long way to go. Plus this is not exactly comparing football results - it’s peoples lives across the continent.
    Which is good news for the other side of the second lockdown. We'll only be in a better position for these four weeks, at least in terms of covid stats.
  • IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    50% language and 50% culture
    Also the size of the USA.

    Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    kle4 said:

    Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.

    Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.

    It's a grim question, but I wonder at the difference between a health system on the verge of meltdown and one with a meltdown.
    There are lots of temporary expedients that can be implemented when on the verge to provide increasing numbers of people with necessary care.

    For example, in Belgium they were asking staff with a positive test for Covid, but no symptoms to work in Covid wards rather than self-isolate. A desperate measure, but keeps the show on the road for a while longer.

    In meltdown would be when you have no such options left, and you start deciding who doesn't receive care.
    I believe Madrid, Bergamo and maybe NYC all reached that stage in Wave 1
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited November 2020
    Trumps niece on Ch4 at the moment is good value. She doesn't like him!

    "He's President for 76 days. If Donald is going down he's going to take the rest of us down with him"
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    LadyG said:

    The US prez election manages to be the most important and compelling in the democratic world, and also the most tedious, protracted and shite.

    This is Day 3 FFS. I thought Americans were meant to be good at Puttin on a Show

    Are you not entertained?
  • NBC News has an election official in Georgia reading out bit of a spreadsheet...
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    Poland is getting smashed in the 2nd wave. Health system is on the verge of meltdown.

    Poland registered 27,100 new coronavirus cases and a record 445 deaths on Friday. It’s using a soccer stadium as a field hospital.

    It's a grim question, but I wonder at the difference between a health system on the verge of meltdown and one with a meltdown.
    There are lots of temporary expedients that can be implemented when on the verge to provide increasing numbers of people with necessary care.

    For example, in Belgium they were asking staff with a positive test for Covid, but no symptoms to work in Covid wards rather than self-isolate. A desperate measure, but keeps the show on the road for a while longer.

    In meltdown would be when you have no such options left, and you start deciding who doesn't receive care.
    I believe Madrid, Bergamo and maybe NYC all reached that stage in Wave 1
    I don't think NYC reached the care rationing stage. Somewhere in Utah was reportedly close to it recently but I don't know if they actually had to.
  • eristdoof said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    50% language and 50% culture
    That fits for Ireland as well, but the UK does not go nuts about the Irish elections.
    US population = 330m, Ireland = 5m
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    It is maybe reasonable, at a stretch, for a pivotal and bizarre presidential US election,

    But it doesn't end there. We obsess about US politics right down to George Floyd, SAT scores and policing policies, which has the cube root of feck all to do with us.

    And we import the toxic culture wars that surround all this, to our detriment, the same way we import totally alien traditions like "Black Friday" - based on Thanksgiving!

    Enough now. America has been toppled. China is now clearly the world's leading power, Asia is the centre of the global economy. This election has done nothing but underline that. Time to recalibrate.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    RobD said:

    LadyG said:

    The US prez election manages to be the most important and compelling in the democratic world, and also the most tedious, protracted and shite.

    This is Day 3 FFS. I thought Americans were meant to be good at Puttin on a Show

    Are you not entertained?
    No
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    A network needs to call this race before the weekend.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,704

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    50% language and 50% culture
    Also the size of the USA.

    Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.
    Yes, and we also tend to underestimate the extent to which other European countries also focus on the US presidential elections because we falsely think our own interest is an expression of our particular cultural affinity.
  • Yokes said:

    Mal557 said:

    It seems to me Trump is digging in, he has probably given himself a timescale to find enough dirt or evidence of fraud to turn this over, crazy as it sounds. I am expecting the next few days and weeks Giuliani and Trumps other hatchet men will be trawling the dark regions of twitter and other social media to try get examples of fraud in these states.
    Someone said about 'throwing sht at the wall until something sticks' this is my view, he will promote any tenuous and weak evidence of 'fraud' and push the narrative in the hope,,,he finds something major by chance. At some point maybe in a few weeks if hes got nothing (most likely) he will slink off and do a reality TV network.

    The first danger point is this weekend, the key swing states will be called and people have the weekend to digest or protest. If Trump can directly or indirectly raise a street activist movement in some way we might get indications this weekend but trouble on the street of any notable kind will really do it for him. Mass dusts up are unlikely, the greater risk is five loons who dress in combat gear (they will call it tactical gear) on weekends shooting someone in an organised attack. Again Trump will be tagged with it and will really cause damage.

    This is being almost entirely driven by Trump himself with his family and I get it, this is more than just ego or a sense of grievance. Trump knows that it isn't likely to be a quiet retirement and lecture tours and he could potentially be ruined. As far as the Trump family is concerned they are fighting for their lives, at least as they know it.

    The top echelons of the GOP will simply keep things bland because Trump still has two months in the White House and they do fear that Trumpites but the gap that Biden has looks likely to work for them as much as the Democrats because it helps amplify the sense that things are done.
    It's very hard to discern the motives of a narcissist such as Trump. Not all his actions can be put down to rational motives.

    I think the Republican heirarchy will be praying that at some point soon he will give up and go off in a sulk while the Democrats should be hoping that he continues to throw his toys out of the pram like the spoilt brat he is. The failure of Trump to go with good grace is frankly disgracing both him and those Republicans who feel too compromised to push him towards the door in public. With two critical Senate run off races looming, that is not a good look.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,704
    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    It is maybe reasonable, at a stretch, for a pivotal and bizarre presidential US election,

    But it doesn't end there. We obsess about US politics right down to George Floyd, SAT scores and policing policies, which has the cube root of feck all to do with us.

    And we import the toxic culture wars that surround all this, to our detriment, the same way we import totally alien traditions like "Black Friday" - based on Thanksgiving!

    Enough now. America has been toppled. China is now clearly the world's leading power, Asia is the centre of the global economy. This election has done nothing but underline that. Time to recalibrate.
    If one of the TV networks bought the rights to show a high-budget Chinese TV series, it would do a lot to make the rise of China more visible to people.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited November 2020

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    50% language and 50% culture
    Also the size of the USA.

    Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.
    Yes, and we also tend to underestimate the extent to which other European countries also focus on the US presidential elections because we falsely think our own interest is an expression of our particular cultural affinity.
    They are all making the same psychological error. Believing that America matters as much as it did. Perhaps, I suspect, because they want to. It is a comforting lie.

    The big bad man/great good man in the White House is in charge of the world. Yay. So if anything REALLY goes wrong Uncle Sam wlll wade in - reluctantly - and sort it out. And we can all go back to sleep/work/the bottle. Even the madman Trump is better than no American hyperpower at all.

    That era has just passed. Uncle Xi is, if anything, the more powerful figure. And he rises all the time. And he is scary in a way even Trump is not, so we prefer to look away and look West instead.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Georgia @1.12 for Biden.
  • Alistair said:

    A network needs to call this race before the weekend.

    After the very early call for Hillary by a couple of networks last time, no one is willing.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Been having a long liquid dinner.

    Great white burgundy.

    Can anyone explain to me why this is dragging on? WTF is going on in:

    AZ
    NV
    PA

    FFS.
  • Alistair said:

    A network needs to call this race before the weekend.

    It has long passed the point of inevitability. I'm really not sure what the holdup is.
  • IanB2 said:

    Possible that NV might count another 50k votes today

    Something a UK constituency does in c. 5hours each General Election. They are US in the US.
  • Alistair said:

    A network needs to call this race before the weekend.

    It has long passed the point of inevitability. I'm really not sure what the holdup is.
    The networks are just BIDEN their time.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,704
    edited November 2020
    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    50% language and 50% culture
    Also the size of the USA.

    Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.
    Yes, and we also tend to underestimate the extent to which other European countries also focus on the US presidential elections because we falsely think our own interest is an expression of our particular cultural affinity.
    They are all making the same psychological error. Believing that America matters as much as it did. Perhaps, I suspect, because they want to. It is a comforting lie.

    The big bad man/great good man in the White House is in charge of the world. Yay. So if anything REALLY goes wrong Uncle Sam wlll wade in - reluctantly - and sort it out. And we can all go back to sleep/work/the bottle. Even the madman Trump is better than no American hyperpower at all.

    That era has just passed. Uncle Xi is, if anything, the more powerful figure. And he rises all the time. And he is scary in a way even Trump is not, so we prefer to look away and look West instead.
    You also see it in the persistence of the Cold War anachronism of 'the leader of the free world', which Americans are just as guilty of clinging to.
  • CNN now explaining why/when they’re going to call it. Must have heard us.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I actually think this is a fair point. I find it interesting that remainers tend to be more interested in US politics than European politics.
    People are more interested in the USA generally than most other places, and the presidential election affects people globally in a way that is more signifcant than Ireland, Slovakia, or the UK. I don't think it is surprising in the least. Nor, even though we probably do pay too much attention to it, is it that unreasonable.
    50% language and 50% culture
    Also the size of the USA.

    Comparing the USA to Iceland is ridiculous. It's not like we pay far too much attention on the race to be Governor of Rhode Island or Delaware.
    Yes, and we also tend to underestimate the extent to which other European countries also focus on the US presidential elections because we falsely think our own interest is an expression of our particular cultural affinity.
    They are all making the same psychological error. Believing that America matters as much as it did. Perhaps, I suspect, because they want to. It is a comforting lie.

    The big bad man/great good man in the White House is in charge of the world. Yay. So if anything REALLY goes wrong Uncle Sam wlll wade in - reluctantly - and sort it out. And we can all go back to sleep/work/the bottle. Even the madman Trump is better than no American hyperpower at all.

    That era has just passed. Uncle Xi is, if anything, the more powerful figure. And he rises all the time. And he is scary in a way even Trump is not, so we prefer to look away and look West instead.
    Yes but that is the point, the US is still the largest economy with the most powerful military and will always be in the top 3 global powers alongside China and most likely in a few decades India.

    China doesn't have elections other than backroom deals to appoint the next in line rubber stamped by the party so the US election will always be of most interest
  • Is Fox the only network that has called AZ? And with AZ he only needs NV?

    Must be guaranteed soon that Biden has won NV so perhaps the other networks are holding off until NV has to be called by everyone thus making Fox have to be the one that calls the Presidency for Biden?
  • CNN now explaining why/when they’re going to call it. Must have heard us.

    They have been saying Biden is going to win for hours (we have known this for at least a DAY) but they're not willing to put their money where their mouth is for some reason.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    A network needs to call this race before the weekend.

    It has long passed the point of inevitability. I'm really not sure what the holdup is.
    The networks are just BIDEN their time.
    https://twitter.com/petridishes/status/1324461569753993216?s=19
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    On of these networks needs to just do their job and call it. This is getting ridiculous.
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Is there a market on if PA will be called before our lockdown ends? :)
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Is Fox the only network that has called AZ? And with AZ he only needs NV?

    Must be guaranteed soon that Biden has won NV so perhaps the other networks are holding off until NV has to be called by everyone thus making Fox have to be the one that calls the Presidency for Biden?

    I bet you the Murdochs are absolutely kicking themselves - or more likely someone else - for Fox calling AZ. It's meant that, if NV is called, they have to call this for Biden, thus almost certainly triggering an explosion from Trump and almost certainly the setting up of a rival TV channel
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662

    Is Fox the only network that has called AZ? And with AZ he only needs NV?

    Must be guaranteed soon that Biden has won NV so perhaps the other networks are holding off until NV has to be called by everyone thus making Fox have to be the one that calls the Presidency for Biden?

    Only network yes though AP did as well
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Trump may hold out until every vote has been counted - rather than accepting the network calls. That could take quite a few days.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    If I was a US TV network just now I would announce that I was about to declare a state for Biden in 5 minutes and then call Alaska for Biden.
  • Roger said:

    Trumps niece on Ch4 at the moment is good value. She doesn't like him!

    "He's President for 76 days. If Donald is going down he's going to take the rest of us down with him"

    Sounds like she is typing a memo to the Pentagon.
This discussion has been closed.