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That 5:30 meeting should have started now and with it being online I wonder how long until something starts to leak. Or if there even is anything major to leak.0
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At least they don't need to be 1 metre plus apart for that anymore.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's not that bad. They can still have sex, as long as it's not in groups of more than six.contrarian said:
Right now young peopleCorrectHorseBattery said:Blame the young is always the easy way out. Cowards.
cannot travel
cannot associate in groups
cannot afford to buy houses
have big personal debts if they went to university
Will inherit an enormous debt mountain from the boomers
Pay then highest taxes in 50 years to fund the care of the elderly
Will soon experience mass unemployment
Missed a whole term of education
Are having their development affected by mask wearing and other mentally traumatic events
Its a dreadful, dreadful situation and anybody blaming them for their fantastic compliance and fortitude in this period is a c8nt.0 -
Cowardice, and the kind of stupidity that thinks it's clever.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I simply cannot understand why Boris has done this for no apparent advantage rather than just declare the talks are over and no deal at the end of DecemberCasino_Royale said:
I think it's cock-up rather than conspiracy.FF43 said:Just thought of something.
The Internal Market Bill is a poison pill. It doesn't just ostentatiously break the law. It takes aim at the Good Friday Agreement and drives a coach and horses through the devolution settlement. It is objectionable in every respect.
IT IS INTENDED TO BE OBJECTIONABLE. Cunning plan alert !
The aim is get a coalition of Starmer Labourites, SNP'ers, Tory rebels, useful idiots in the Lords etc to vote it down.
Then go back to the EU and say, sorry can't give you UK State Aid intentions. The other lot voted it down.
Now we can blame Starmer for No Deal. Wahey !!!!!
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Plausible?
To the extent there was design I think it might have been to do a bit of sabre-rattling with the EU and/or protect the UK from State Aid trojan-horses in the event of No Deal (which is the cock-up).
Johnson could have pulled the plug on the negotiations at any point. "No offence to our friends and neighbours, but we and they just need different things. The transition will run until the end of December, them we will trade with the EU on terms similar to Australia. Provided we organise properly, all will be fine." There would have been some grumbling, but with a majority of 80, it would have been ignorable. And a No Deal announced in (say) February or even July would have been less likely to fail than one announced in October.
But in doing that, No Deal would have been his decision. All the responsibility for anything going wrong would be on his shoulders. Which isn't his idea of fun at all.
So- my hunch is that the point of this week's shenanigans was to create a disturbance which would collapse negotiations and allow him to blame someone else. Starmer, Barnier, anyone else. After all, it worked last autumn. (Remember that the government was all set to filibuster the Benn bill in the Lords, just before prorogation kicked in. Then they didn't. The memoirs of that day will be interesting.)
The trouble is that, for a couple of reasons (government majority of 80, Starmer being able to read the sign saying "THIS IS A HUGE TRAP"), the opposition aren't playing ball.
So he has created a bill with a poison pill. Nobody in the opposition is going to stop him swallowing it. Maybe there's a plan.
Your move, Mr Johnson.3 -
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Half a million people - over 10% of the state population - evacuated to avoid massive wildfires in Oregon:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54113416
...4.4 million acres have been razed, according to the National Interagency Fire Center - an area larger than Connecticut and slightly smaller than Wales....0 -
No election, no surprises there then!0
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On the current situation - the ONS numbers for incidence
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Good summaryStuartinromford said:
Cowardice, and the kind of stupidity that thinks it's clever.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I simply cannot understand why Boris has done this for no apparent advantage rather than just declare the talks are over and no deal at the end of DecemberCasino_Royale said:
I think it's cock-up rather than conspiracy.FF43 said:Just thought of something.
The Internal Market Bill is a poison pill. It doesn't just ostentatiously break the law. It takes aim at the Good Friday Agreement and drives a coach and horses through the devolution settlement. It is objectionable in every respect.
IT IS INTENDED TO BE OBJECTIONABLE. Cunning plan alert !
The aim is get a coalition of Starmer Labourites, SNP'ers, Tory rebels, useful idiots in the Lords etc to vote it down.
Then go back to the EU and say, sorry can't give you UK State Aid intentions. The other lot voted it down.
Now we can blame Starmer for No Deal. Wahey !!!!!
----
Plausible?
To the extent there was design I think it might have been to do a bit of sabre-rattling with the EU and/or protect the UK from State Aid trojan-horses in the event of No Deal (which is the cock-up).
Johnson could have pulled the plug on the negotiations at any point. "No offence to our friends and neighbours, but we and they just need different things. The transition will run until the end of December, them we will trade with the EU on terms similar to Australia. Provided we organise properly, all will be fine." There would have been some grumbling, but with a majority of 80, it would have been ignorable. And a No Deal announced in (say) February or even July would have been less likely to fail than one announced in October.
But in doing that, No Deal would have been his decision. All the responsibility for anything going wrong would be on his shoulders. Which isn't his idea of fun at all.
So- my hunch is that the point of this week's shenanigans was to create a disturbance which would collapse negotiations and allow him to blame someone else. Starmer, Barnier, anyone else. After all, it worked last autumn. (Remember that the government was all set to filibuster the Benn bill in the Lords, just before prorogation kicked in. Then they didn't. The memoirs of that day will be interesting.)
The trouble is that, for a couple of reasons (government majority of 80, Starmer being able to read the sign saying "THIS IS A HUGE TRAP"), the opposition aren't playing ball.
So he has created a bill with a poison pill. Nobody in the opposition is going to stop him swallowing it. Maybe there's a plan.
Your move, Mr Johnson.2 -
It comes to the same thing, does it not? The EU will only agree a deal if the WA overrides are removed and if the UK govt explains its State Aid policy. If removing the first also removes the second, there won't be a deal. A deal is only possible if the Internal Market Bill goes through with the WA clauses amended out. But the IM Bill is so objectionable in other ways that it will likely be voted down or delayed in its entirety.Casino_Royale said:
I think it's cock-up rather than conspiracy.FF43 said:Just thought of something.
The Internal Market Bill is a poison pill. It doesn't just ostentatiously break the law. It takes aim at the Good Friday Agreement and drives a coach and horses through the devolution settlement. It is objectionable in every respect.
IT IS INTENDED TO BE OBJECTIONABLE. Cunning plan alert !
The aim is get a coalition of Starmer Labourites, SNP'ers, Tory rebels, useful idiots in the Lords etc to vote it down.
Then go back to the EU and say, sorry can't give you UK State Aid intentions. The other lot voted it down.
Now we can blame Starmer for No Deal. Wahey !!!!!
----
Plausible?
To the extent there was design I think it might have been to do a bit of sabre-rattling with the EU and/or protect the UK from State Aid trojan-horses in the event of No Deal (which is the cock-up).0 -
Interesting, on the graphs that you've shown previously from the ONS it has looked relatively flat up until now. Maybe the y-axis was hiding the gentle rise.Malmesbury said:On the current situation - the ONS numbers for incidence
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UK Positivity data -
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He's losing his marbles, isn't he?Scott_xP said:3 -
The Conservative Party is now a foreign power?Scott_xP said:1 -
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Sounds like itRichard_Nabavi said:
He's losing his marbles, isn't he?Scott_xP said:0 -
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We left at the right time didn't we Richard?Richard_Nabavi said:
He's losing his marbles, isn't he?Scott_xP said:
Imagine being associated with this embarrassment.1 -
"No questions" is going to go down like a lead balloon, isn't it?Scott_xP said:0 -
Irony, as they say, with a frequently American and Russian-sourced referendum campaign in social media, quite possibly leading to scottish independence and irish reunification, knows no bounds.Scott_xP said:1 -
This is from the raw data - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/11september2020RobD said:
Interesting, on the graphs that you've shown previously from the ONS it has looked relatively flat up until now. Maybe the y-axis was hiding the gentle rise.Malmesbury said:On the current situation - the ONS numbers for incidence
Doesn't use their graph - which uses a much larger Y axis
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In situations like this, probably worth keeping an eye on which ministers aren't saying much.0
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It soon will be foreign if you live in Scotland or Northern Ireland.williamglenn said:
The Conservative Party is now a foreign power?Scott_xP said:1 -
Yep. No risk of any pangs of regret now.TheScreamingEagles said:
We left at the right time didn't we Richard?Richard_Nabavi said:
He's losing his marbles, isn't he?Scott_xP said:
Imagine being associated with this embarrassment.1 -
Told you! He's going to blame Starmer.Scott_xP said:
Starmer is a rather foreign sounding name is it not? Everyone knows where they are with a Johnson!1 -
If I was in your (normally) brightly colours shoes, I think the admission of attending Steps and Vengaboys concerts would weight more heavily :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
We left at the right time didn't we Richard?Richard_Nabavi said:
He's losing his marbles, isn't he?Scott_xP said:
Imagine being associated with this embarrassment.0 -
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Chinese hacking the Zoom connection?Scott_xP said:1 -
Indeed. If I were in my late teens or 20s I would think "Fuck this virus" and go out and party. I would also try and avoid hugging elderly relatives, cousins with diabetes etc, but I would not stop living my young life to the full.contrarian said:
Right now young peopleCorrectHorseBattery said:Blame the young is always the easy way out. Cowards.
cannot travel
cannot associate in groups
cannot afford to buy houses
have big personal debts if they went to university
Will inherit an enormous debt mountain from the boomers
Pay then highest taxes in 50 years to fund the care of the elderly
Will soon experience mass unemployment
Missed a whole term of education
Are having their development affected by mask wearing and other mentally traumatic events
Its a dreadful, dreadful situation and anybody blaming them for their fantastic compliance and fortitude in this period is a c8nt.
Young people need to go out, have fun, fall in love, make babies. That's how humanity will survive, in the end, not by endless, life-crushing, economy-squashing quarantines that never really work anyway.6 -
So Barnier is now threatening to ban UK food exports to the EU if no trade deal is agreed, if the UK responds in kind better stock up on the brie and champagne and paella and pasta
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8721645/Gordon-Brown-blasts-Boris-Johnson-Brexit-plans.html0 -
Bring back TMScott_xP said:2 -
Dom pressed the wrong button in Mission Control...FrancisUrquhart said:Chinese hacking the Zoom connection?
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We should have a 8pm Wednesday evening clap (ahem) for young people.LadyG said:
Indeed. If I were in my late teens or 20s I would think "Fuck this virus" and go out and party. I would also try and avoid hugging elderly relatives, cousins with diabetes etc, but I would not stop living my young life to the full.contrarian said:
Right now young peopleCorrectHorseBattery said:Blame the young is always the easy way out. Cowards.
cannot travel
cannot associate in groups
cannot afford to buy houses
have big personal debts if they went to university
Will inherit an enormous debt mountain from the boomers
Pay then highest taxes in 50 years to fund the care of the elderly
Will soon experience mass unemployment
Missed a whole term of education
Are having their development affected by mask wearing and other mentally traumatic events
Its a dreadful, dreadful situation and anybody blaming them for their fantastic compliance and fortitude in this period is a c8nt.
Young people need to go out, have fun, fall in love, make babies. That's how humanity will survive, in the end, not by endless, life-crushing, economy-squashing quarantines that never really work anyway.
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What role has Steve Baker got that he'd take over with what the PM was saying. He's just a backbencher isn't he?0
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I've not bought any new footwear since January, I need to rectify that.FrancisUrquhart said:
If I was in your (normally) brightly colours shoes, I think the admission of attending Steps and Vengaboys concerts would weight more heavily :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
We left at the right time didn't we Richard?Richard_Nabavi said:
He's losing his marbles, isn't he?Scott_xP said:
Imagine being associated with this embarrassment.
Doing the 10,000 steps a day challenge since well April, and I've worn away my current trainers.0 -
I imagine it's a Russian sounding name because it's in fact a Russian name.DecrepiterJohnL said:2 -
Yes, would guess he must have been involved in whatever strategy it is?Philip_Thompson said:What role has Steve Baker got that he'd take over with what the PM was saying. He's just a backbencher isn't he?
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Only Boris could make Theresa May seem like Churchill.3
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Yes that implies the plans are even more ERG-centric than they first appeared.noneoftheabove said:
Yes, would guess he must have been involved in whatever strategy it is?Philip_Thompson said:What role has Steve Baker got that he'd take over with what the PM was saying. He's just a backbencher isn't he?
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Theresa May was Chamberlain to Boris's Churchill.WhisperingOracle said:Only Boris could make Theresa May seem like Churchill.
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If it's good enough for Boris, it's godunov for me.DecrepiterJohnL said:5 -
Sounds like the PM knows he's in trouble, by the time this gets to the house the rebels will be very organised and I doubt today's farcical meeting has helped. It looked like the Lord's would send it back but I wouldn't be surprised if MPs either amend it into something unobjectionable or just vote it down and defeat the government. The rebels need to start counting Labour to not abstain.2
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Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 19222
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Theresa May was the Duke of Grafton to Boris's Lord North.Philip_Thompson said:
Theresa May was Chamberlain to Boris's Churchill.WhisperingOracle said:Only Boris could make Theresa May seem like Churchill.
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You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safeBig_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
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I have the opposite problem. I bought a lovely "glow in the dark" pair of Metcons for Crossfit and haven't managed to get any use out of them. Just sitting on the shelf gathering dust.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've not bought any new footwear since January, I need to rectify that.FrancisUrquhart said:
If I was in your (normally) brightly colours shoes, I think the admission of attending Steps and Vengaboys concerts would weight more heavily :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
We left at the right time didn't we Richard?Richard_Nabavi said:
He's losing his marbles, isn't he?Scott_xP said:
Imagine being associated with this embarrassment.
Doing the 10,000 steps a day challenge since well April, and I've worn away my current trainers.0 -
Or is that just a sop to get enough MPs to support his plan for no deal. Who knows, not even Tory MPs themselves. Far from democracy the country is being led by a tiny clique with an opaque agenda. It was elected on a manifesto that promised an oven ready deal, which they now want to break the law to avoid implementing.CorrectHorseBattery said:2 -
Surely Boris should have had this meeting with his backbenchers before, or at the same time as, tabling this Bill? The fact he's having it today suggests he's got party management problems and is not fully in control of events.3
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Why? What's changed from when Boris won a thumping majority in the leadership election and the general election?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
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He's safe until he delivers Brexit.HYUFD said:
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safeBig_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
After that.....1 -
0
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In Scotland certainly...williamglenn said:
The Conservative Party is now a foreign power?Scott_xP said:0 -
Sometimes big companies get these things wrong. But this is a truly touching corporate gesture
https://twitter.com/Shandypockets/status/1304430608152776710?s=202 -
Yep, tossing out their biggest election winner in decades nine months after his landslide would definitely not be a batshit-insane thing to do.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
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Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treatyHYUFD said:
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safeBig_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out1 -
This is the worst Government of my - albeit, short - lifetime0
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25% of Scots voted Tory in 2019, that means a quarter of Scots are not Scottish thenOnlyLivingBoy said:
In Scotland certainly...williamglenn said:
The Conservative Party is now a foreign power?Scott_xP said:0 -
His POV is irrelevant, surely ?Scott_xP said:
What counts is the wording of the bill.0 -
Could have at least offered it from 9 until 11.LadyG said:Sometimes big companies get these things wrong. But this is a truly touching corporate gesture
https://twitter.com/Shandypockets/status/1304430608152776710?s=203 -
He's not threatening anything of the kind. That is the default position in EU law. By definition, no deal means no deal. If there's no deal, we will by definition be a third-party country without recognition of our standards by the EU, and therefore under EU law, then specific and very well defined rules apply. These rules are not exactly a state secret, they are published on the EU websites:HYUFD said:So Barnier is now threatening to ban UK food exports to the EU if no trade deal is agreed, if the UK responds in kind better stock up on the brie and champagne and paella and pasta
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8721645/Gordon-Brown-blasts-Boris-Johnson-Brexit-plans.html
https://ec.europa.eu/food/safety/official_controls/legislation/imports_en#:~:text=The European Union is a,products from the EU itself.
Sane people have been pointing this out for at least three years, when the fantasy that we could crash out with no deal first started becoming popular with the nutjobs and then the Conservative Party as a whole.
It really isn't hard to understand.
As for us 'retaliating' by cutting off our own food supplies, well I suppose it might be good idea because it would lead to the immediate collapse of the government, and that might be the quickest route to sanity, starting from where we are.
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Or that he considers Tory MPs so weak and spineless that they have no say in events. I think that is more likely (and probably correct).Northern_Al said:Surely Boris should have had this meeting with his backbenchers before, or at the same time as, tabling this Bill? The fact he's having it today suggests he's got party management problems and is not fully in control of events.
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Legal expert Boris Johnson, who claims he didn't understand the treaty he negotiated, signed and campaigned on.Scott_xP said:
Twat.0 -
Their flagship policy at the GE is now worth breaking the law to avoid implementing?Philip_Thompson said:
Why? What's changed from when Boris won a thumping majority in the leadership election and the general election?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
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Well, that’s SeanT screwed then (or not, as the case may be).Richard_Nabavi said:
It's not that bad. They can still have sex, as long as it's not in groups of more than six.contrarian said:
Right now young peopleCorrectHorseBattery said:Blame the young is always the easy way out. Cowards.
cannot travel
cannot associate in groups
cannot afford to buy houses
have big personal debts if they went to university
Will inherit an enormous debt mountain from the boomers
Pay then highest taxes in 50 years to fund the care of the elderly
Will soon experience mass unemployment
Missed a whole term of education
Are having their development affected by mask wearing and other mentally traumatic events
Its a dreadful, dreadful situation and anybody blaming them for their fantastic compliance and fortitude in this period is a c8nt.1 -
I had you as older than 10.CorrectHorseBattery said:This is the worst Government of my - albeit, short - lifetime
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He has torn up an international treaty and trashed the conservative brandPhilip_Thompson said:
Why? What's changed from when Boris won a thumping majority in the leadership election and the general election?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
That is what has changed0 -
I'm obviously 12Omnium said:
I had you as older than 10.CorrectHorseBattery said:This is the worst Government of my - albeit, short - lifetime
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He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treatyHYUFD said:
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safeBig_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out0 -
sound the 'quite' klaxonBig_G_NorthWales said:
You are now being silly.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Prove it's the primary reason.Philip_Thompson said:
Not 100% but primarily responsible absolutely.CorrectHorseBattery said:
That is not the only cause of the spread. The young cannot be held 100% responsible.Philip_Thompson said:
To go to the pub in a covid-secure manner, not to go to raves and house parties which is what is causing the spread.CorrectHorseBattery said:
He told us to all go back to the pub and live our lives as normal.FrancisUrquhart said:
No he didn't. The police have spent all summer trying to close down parties and raves.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Blame the young time, Johnson told them to go out and partyBig_G_NorthWales said:
On this you are incorrect HorseCorrectHorseBattery said:We are headed into a second wave due to this Government's incompetence. Yet again we had foresight of other countries and we did nothing
If we are heading into a second wave this is consistent with the rest of Europe and all four nations have been taking similar action to mitigate the spread but it is clear that selfish and defiant behaviour by any including but not only the young are the biggest factors and there is behaviour is not possible to prescribe
The young are absolutely culpable but they cannot be held responsible for Government advice they were given.
And that's just a matter of fact not judgement.
Remember when you said the other day about the young voting Tory, this is the kind of thing I meant when you blame them for every problem
It is the experts who are saying this from the analysis of the data0 -
More like Baldwin to Boris's Chamberlain.Philip_Thompson said:
Theresa May was Chamberlain to Boris's Churchill.WhisperingOracle said:Only Boris could make Theresa May seem like Churchill.
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It is also very clear that there's much more of a grip on where infections are coming from when they do follow up the track/trace.Philip_Thompson said:
Nobody is "blaming" the young.CorrectHorseBattery said:Funny, they wanted the young to get back to the office just last week, now they're to blame for everything.
This is the Tory way in a nutshell, never the fault of anyone over 50
Blame is such a perjorative term.
The data says that the young are spreading the virus - in order to deal with this we need to know what's happening and react to it, not put our heads in the sand or cast blame. Its not a blame issue, it is just an issue of knowing the facts.1 -
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1304467358556266496
Philip assured us Johnson's deal didn't do this, oh well, wrong again0 -
No. I support tearing up this treaty.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treatyHYUFD said:
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safeBig_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out0 -
I think you are right, he is in effect dictator until 2024 or he decides otherwise. Even if the Tory MPs get a leadership contest, he will play the ultra Brexit card and win the following leadership contest with the membership pretty easily.BluestBlue said:
Yep, tossing out their biggest election winner in decades nine months after his landslide would definitely not be a batshit-insane thing to do.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
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Don't say that. He'll start calling the WA a piece of paper that gave us time to rearm.Richard_Nabavi said:
More like Baldwin to Boris's Chamberlain.Philip_Thompson said:
Theresa May was Chamberlain to Boris's Churchill.WhisperingOracle said:Only Boris could make Theresa May seem like Churchill.
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Tariffs may apply but banning UK food exports altogether is a different matter and our food complies to a high standard of productionRichard_Nabavi said:
He's not threatening anything of the kind. That is the default position in EU law. By definition, no deal means no deal. If there's no deal, we will by definition be a third-party country without recognition of our standards by the EU, and therefore under EU law, then specific and very well defined rules apply. These rules are not exactly a state secret, they are published on the EU websites:HYUFD said:So Barnier is now threatening to ban UK food exports to the EU if no trade deal is agreed, if the UK responds in kind better stock up on the brie and champagne and paella and pasta
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8721645/Gordon-Brown-blasts-Boris-Johnson-Brexit-plans.html
https://ec.europa.eu/food/safety/official_controls/legislation/imports_en#:~:text=The European Union is a,products from the EU itself.
Sane people have been pointing this out for at least three years, when the fantasy that we could crash out with no deal first started becoming popular with the nutjobs and then the Conservative Party as a whole.
It really isn't hard to understand.
As for us 'retaliating' by cutting off our own food supplies, well I suppose it might be good idea because it would lead to the immediate collapse of the government, and that might be the quickest route to sanity, starting from where we are.0 -
I am going nowhereHYUFD said:
He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treatyHYUFD said:
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safeBig_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
I will fight to regain the integrity of the party and see the end to the Boris Cummings disaster2 -
Johnson admits as above, his deal he negotiated puts a border down the Irish Sea.
@Philip_Thompson will you now admit you were wrong0 -
Brown's time was in my view the worst phase in recent years. I know nobody likes Blair, but he was a good PM.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I'm obviously 12Omnium said:
I had you as older than 10.CorrectHorseBattery said:This is the worst Government of my - albeit, short - lifetime
The 70s, Heath, Wilson, Callaghan were worse, by far, than anything recent.
The coalition government with Cameron and Clegg was really good.
May was good too - She will finish up rather unfairly and unluckily judged.
Boris - few PMs have faced such a challenge. We'll see,3 -
"He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea" that he campaigned for just ten months ago...HYUFD said:
He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treatyHYUFD said:
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safeBig_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out3 -
Interesting new perspective on Boris' tactics from the often very well informed Bruno Waterfield
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/11/the-eu-cant-handle-british-independence/2 -
Just how young are you? You`re really pissing me off now.CorrectHorseBattery said:This is the worst Government of my - albeit, short - lifetime
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He's not far off saying that.williamglenn said:
Don't say that. He'll start calling the WA a piece of paper that gave us time to rearm.Richard_Nabavi said:
More like Baldwin to Boris's Chamberlain.Philip_Thompson said:
Theresa May was Chamberlain to Boris's Churchill.WhisperingOracle said:Only Boris could make Theresa May seem like Churchill.
He's actually quite like Chamberlain in style. Every new fact which comes up and proves he's wrong is taken as a reason to think he's right. Like Chamberlain he ignores the warnings of the sensible. Like Chamberlain he is very conceited and thinks he has a special understanding of affairs which the civil service experts don't have. And in Cummings he even has his modern-day equivalent of Sir Horace Wilson:
Lord Woolton recalled in his memoir that Wilson, "found himself enjoying tremendous power – in fact a power unequalled by any member of the Cabinet except the Prime Minister." On another occasion Woolton noted that Wilson left him after a dinner early saying, "I must go and look after my master: he's feeling very lonely just now".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Wilson_(civil_servant)2 -
That is fighting talk.Scott_xP said:0 -
Somewhere between 0 and 40Stocky said:
Just how young are you? You`re really pissing me off now.CorrectHorseBattery said:This is the worst Government of my - albeit, short - lifetime
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The fact that you have deceived (by your own admission) a handful of closet Essex kippers into electing you as a minor functionary does not put you in a position to speak for the party nor to suggest who should or should not belong to it. You are an admirer of Johnson who is not a conservative, but is a right wing populist shit. You are not a conservative but are a right wing populist ... let's leave it there.HYUFD said:
He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treatyHYUFD said:
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safeBig_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out2 -
David Cameron was the worst Prime Minister since Lord North.Omnium said:
Brown's time was in my view the worst phase in recent years. I know nobody likes Blair, but he was a good PM.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I'm obviously 12Omnium said:
I had you as older than 10.CorrectHorseBattery said:This is the worst Government of my - albeit, short - lifetime
The 70s, Heath, Wilson, Callaghan were worse, by far, than anything recent.
The coalition government with Cameron and Clegg was really good.
May was good too - She will finish up rather unfairly and unluckily judged.
Boris - few PMs have faced such a challenge. We'll see,0 -
What a disgraceful thing to say. You can't believe it, do you? But as I recall, the Tories claimed in November 2013 that any criticism of the Tories was moptivated principally by anti-English racism. I also recall that they shyt down that attack line very quickly when they realised what they were saying.HYUFD said:
25% of Scots voted Tory in 2019, that means a quarter of Scots are not Scottish thenOnlyLivingBoy said:
In Scotland certainly...williamglenn said:
The Conservative Party is now a foreign power?Scott_xP said:0 -
That would be the same Bruno Waterfield who praised Boris Johnson for getting the deal and now calls it 'The Internal Market Bill clears up the ambiguity and the contradictions of the deliberate smoke-and-mirrors inherent in the Northern Ireland Protocol,'LadyG said:Interesting new perspective on Boris' tactics from the often very well informed Bruno Waterfield
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/11/the-eu-cant-handle-british-independence/0 -
If you continue your fight to undermine and attack the party leader you may not resign but you may find it is you being thrown out not BorisBig_G_NorthWales said:
I am going nowhereHYUFD said:
He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treatyHYUFD said:
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safeBig_G_NorthWales said:Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
I will fight to regain the integrity of the party and see the end to the Boris Cummings disaster0
This discussion has been closed.