That 5:30 meeting should have started now and with it being online I wonder how long until something starts to leak. Or if there even is anything major to leak.
Blame the young is always the easy way out. Cowards.
Right now young people
cannot travel cannot associate in groups cannot afford to buy houses have big personal debts if they went to university Will inherit an enormous debt mountain from the boomers Pay then highest taxes in 50 years to fund the care of the elderly Will soon experience mass unemployment Missed a whole term of education Are having their development affected by mask wearing and other mentally traumatic events
Its a dreadful, dreadful situation and anybody blaming them for their fantastic compliance and fortitude in this period is a c8nt.
It's not that bad. They can still have sex, as long as it's not in groups of more than six.
At least they don't need to be 1 metre plus apart for that anymore.
The Internal Market Bill is a poison pill. It doesn't just ostentatiously break the law. It takes aim at the Good Friday Agreement and drives a coach and horses through the devolution settlement. It is objectionable in every respect.
IT IS INTENDED TO BE OBJECTIONABLE. Cunning plan alert !
The aim is get a coalition of Starmer Labourites, SNP'ers, Tory rebels, useful idiots in the Lords etc to vote it down.
Then go back to the EU and say, sorry can't give you UK State Aid intentions. The other lot voted it down.
Now we can blame Starmer for No Deal. Wahey !!!!!
----
Plausible?
I think it's cock-up rather than conspiracy.
To the extent there was design I think it might have been to do a bit of sabre-rattling with the EU and/or protect the UK from State Aid trojan-horses in the event of No Deal (which is the cock-up).
I simply cannot understand why Boris has done this for no apparent advantage rather than just declare the talks are over and no deal at the end of December
Cowardice, and the kind of stupidity that thinks it's clever.
Johnson could have pulled the plug on the negotiations at any point. "No offence to our friends and neighbours, but we and they just need different things. The transition will run until the end of December, them we will trade with the EU on terms similar to Australia. Provided we organise properly, all will be fine." There would have been some grumbling, but with a majority of 80, it would have been ignorable. And a No Deal announced in (say) February or even July would have been less likely to fail than one announced in October.
But in doing that, No Deal would have been his decision. All the responsibility for anything going wrong would be on his shoulders. Which isn't his idea of fun at all.
So- my hunch is that the point of this week's shenanigans was to create a disturbance which would collapse negotiations and allow him to blame someone else. Starmer, Barnier, anyone else. After all, it worked last autumn. (Remember that the government was all set to filibuster the Benn bill in the Lords, just before prorogation kicked in. Then they didn't. The memoirs of that day will be interesting.)
The trouble is that, for a couple of reasons (government majority of 80, Starmer being able to read the sign saying "THIS IS A HUGE TRAP"), the opposition aren't playing ball.
So he has created a bill with a poison pill. Nobody in the opposition is going to stop him swallowing it. Maybe there's a plan.
Half a million people - over 10% of the state population - evacuated to avoid massive wildfires in Oregon: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54113416 ...4.4 million acres have been razed, according to the National Interagency Fire Center - an area larger than Connecticut and slightly smaller than Wales....
The Internal Market Bill is a poison pill. It doesn't just ostentatiously break the law. It takes aim at the Good Friday Agreement and drives a coach and horses through the devolution settlement. It is objectionable in every respect.
IT IS INTENDED TO BE OBJECTIONABLE. Cunning plan alert !
The aim is get a coalition of Starmer Labourites, SNP'ers, Tory rebels, useful idiots in the Lords etc to vote it down.
Then go back to the EU and say, sorry can't give you UK State Aid intentions. The other lot voted it down.
Now we can blame Starmer for No Deal. Wahey !!!!!
----
Plausible?
I think it's cock-up rather than conspiracy.
To the extent there was design I think it might have been to do a bit of sabre-rattling with the EU and/or protect the UK from State Aid trojan-horses in the event of No Deal (which is the cock-up).
I simply cannot understand why Boris has done this for no apparent advantage rather than just declare the talks are over and no deal at the end of December
Cowardice, and the kind of stupidity that thinks it's clever.
Johnson could have pulled the plug on the negotiations at any point. "No offence to our friends and neighbours, but we and they just need different things. The transition will run until the end of December, them we will trade with the EU on terms similar to Australia. Provided we organise properly, all will be fine." There would have been some grumbling, but with a majority of 80, it would have been ignorable. And a No Deal announced in (say) February or even July would have been less likely to fail than one announced in October.
But in doing that, No Deal would have been his decision. All the responsibility for anything going wrong would be on his shoulders. Which isn't his idea of fun at all.
So- my hunch is that the point of this week's shenanigans was to create a disturbance which would collapse negotiations and allow him to blame someone else. Starmer, Barnier, anyone else. After all, it worked last autumn. (Remember that the government was all set to filibuster the Benn bill in the Lords, just before prorogation kicked in. Then they didn't. The memoirs of that day will be interesting.)
The trouble is that, for a couple of reasons (government majority of 80, Starmer being able to read the sign saying "THIS IS A HUGE TRAP"), the opposition aren't playing ball.
So he has created a bill with a poison pill. Nobody in the opposition is going to stop him swallowing it. Maybe there's a plan.
The Internal Market Bill is a poison pill. It doesn't just ostentatiously break the law. It takes aim at the Good Friday Agreement and drives a coach and horses through the devolution settlement. It is objectionable in every respect.
IT IS INTENDED TO BE OBJECTIONABLE. Cunning plan alert !
The aim is get a coalition of Starmer Labourites, SNP'ers, Tory rebels, useful idiots in the Lords etc to vote it down.
Then go back to the EU and say, sorry can't give you UK State Aid intentions. The other lot voted it down.
Now we can blame Starmer for No Deal. Wahey !!!!!
----
Plausible?
I think it's cock-up rather than conspiracy.
To the extent there was design I think it might have been to do a bit of sabre-rattling with the EU and/or protect the UK from State Aid trojan-horses in the event of No Deal (which is the cock-up).
It comes to the same thing, does it not? The EU will only agree a deal if the WA overrides are removed and if the UK govt explains its State Aid policy. If removing the first also removes the second, there won't be a deal. A deal is only possible if the Internal Market Bill goes through with the WA clauses amended out. But the IM Bill is so objectionable in other ways that it will likely be voted down or delayed in its entirety.
On the current situation - the ONS numbers for incidence
Interesting, on the graphs that you've shown previously from the ONS it has looked relatively flat up until now. Maybe the y-axis was hiding the gentle rise.
Irony, as they say, with a frequently American and Russian-sourced referendum campaign in social media, quite possibly leading to scottish independence and irish reunification, knows no bounds.
On the current situation - the ONS numbers for incidence
Interesting, on the graphs that you've shown previously from the ONS it has looked relatively flat up until now. Maybe the y-axis was hiding the gentle rise.
Blame the young is always the easy way out. Cowards.
Right now young people
cannot travel cannot associate in groups cannot afford to buy houses have big personal debts if they went to university Will inherit an enormous debt mountain from the boomers Pay then highest taxes in 50 years to fund the care of the elderly Will soon experience mass unemployment Missed a whole term of education Are having their development affected by mask wearing and other mentally traumatic events
Its a dreadful, dreadful situation and anybody blaming them for their fantastic compliance and fortitude in this period is a c8nt.
Indeed. If I were in my late teens or 20s I would think "Fuck this virus" and go out and party. I would also try and avoid hugging elderly relatives, cousins with diabetes etc, but I would not stop living my young life to the full.
Young people need to go out, have fun, fall in love, make babies. That's how humanity will survive, in the end, not by endless, life-crushing, economy-squashing quarantines that never really work anyway.
So Barnier is now threatening to ban UK food exports to the EU if no trade deal is agreed, if the UK responds in kind better stock up on the brie and champagne and paella and pasta
Blame the young is always the easy way out. Cowards.
Right now young people
cannot travel cannot associate in groups cannot afford to buy houses have big personal debts if they went to university Will inherit an enormous debt mountain from the boomers Pay then highest taxes in 50 years to fund the care of the elderly Will soon experience mass unemployment Missed a whole term of education Are having their development affected by mask wearing and other mentally traumatic events
Its a dreadful, dreadful situation and anybody blaming them for their fantastic compliance and fortitude in this period is a c8nt.
Indeed. If I were in my late teens or 20s I would think "Fuck this virus" and go out and party. I would also try and avoid hugging elderly relatives, cousins with diabetes etc, but I would not stop living my young life to the full.
Young people need to go out, have fun, fall in love, make babies. That's how humanity will survive, in the end, not by endless, life-crushing, economy-squashing quarantines that never really work anyway.
We should have a 8pm Wednesday evening clap (ahem) for young people.
Sounds like the PM knows he's in trouble, by the time this gets to the house the rebels will be very organised and I doubt today's farcical meeting has helped. It looked like the Lord's would send it back but I wouldn't be surprised if MPs either amend it into something unobjectionable or just vote it down and defeat the government. The rebels need to start counting Labour to not abstain.
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safe
If I was in your (normally) brightly colours shoes, I think the admission of attending Steps and Vengaboys concerts would weight more heavily :-)
I've not bought any new footwear since January, I need to rectify that.
Doing the 10,000 steps a day challenge since well April, and I've worn away my current trainers.
I have the opposite problem. I bought a lovely "glow in the dark" pair of Metcons for Crossfit and haven't managed to get any use out of them. Just sitting on the shelf gathering dust.
Or is that just a sop to get enough MPs to support his plan for no deal. Who knows, not even Tory MPs themselves. Far from democracy the country is being led by a tiny clique with an opaque agenda. It was elected on a manifesto that promised an oven ready deal, which they now want to break the law to avoid implementing.
Surely Boris should have had this meeting with his backbenchers before, or at the same time as, tabling this Bill? The fact he's having it today suggests he's got party management problems and is not fully in control of events.
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safe
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safe
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treaty
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
So Barnier is now threatening to ban UK food exports to the EU if no trade deal is agreed, if the UK responds in kind better stock up on the brie and champagne and paella and pasta
He's not threatening anything of the kind. That is the default position in EU law. By definition, no deal means no deal. If there's no deal, we will by definition be a third-party country without recognition of our standards by the EU, and therefore under EU law, then specific and very well defined rules apply. These rules are not exactly a state secret, they are published on the EU websites:
Sane people have been pointing this out for at least three years, when the fantasy that we could crash out with no deal first started becoming popular with the nutjobs and then the Conservative Party as a whole.
It really isn't hard to understand.
As for us 'retaliating' by cutting off our own food supplies, well I suppose it might be good idea because it would lead to the immediate collapse of the government, and that might be the quickest route to sanity, starting from where we are.
Surely Boris should have had this meeting with his backbenchers before, or at the same time as, tabling this Bill? The fact he's having it today suggests he's got party management problems and is not fully in control of events.
Or that he considers Tory MPs so weak and spineless that they have no say in events. I think that is more likely (and probably correct).
Blame the young is always the easy way out. Cowards.
Right now young people
cannot travel cannot associate in groups cannot afford to buy houses have big personal debts if they went to university Will inherit an enormous debt mountain from the boomers Pay then highest taxes in 50 years to fund the care of the elderly Will soon experience mass unemployment Missed a whole term of education Are having their development affected by mask wearing and other mentally traumatic events
Its a dreadful, dreadful situation and anybody blaming them for their fantastic compliance and fortitude in this period is a c8nt.
It's not that bad. They can still have sex, as long as it's not in groups of more than six.
Well, that’s SeanT screwed then (or not, as the case may be).
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safe
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treaty
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.
We are headed into a second wave due to this Government's incompetence. Yet again we had foresight of other countries and we did nothing
On this you are incorrect Horse
If we are heading into a second wave this is consistent with the rest of Europe and all four nations have been taking similar action to mitigate the spread but it is clear that selfish and defiant behaviour by any including but not only the young are the biggest factors and there is behaviour is not possible to prescribe
Blame the young time, Johnson told them to go out and party
No he didn't. The police have spent all summer trying to close down parties and raves.
He told us to all go back to the pub and live our lives as normal.
The young are absolutely culpable but they cannot be held responsible for Government advice they were given.
To go to the pub in a covid-secure manner, not to go to raves and house parties which is what is causing the spread.
That is not the only cause of the spread. The young cannot be held 100% responsible.
Not 100% but primarily responsible absolutely.
And that's just a matter of fact not judgement.
Prove it's the primary reason.
Remember when you said the other day about the young voting Tory, this is the kind of thing I meant when you blame them for every problem
You are now being silly.
It is the experts who are saying this from the analysis of the data
Funny, they wanted the young to get back to the office just last week, now they're to blame for everything.
This is the Tory way in a nutshell, never the fault of anyone over 50
Nobody is "blaming" the young.
Blame is such a perjorative term.
The data says that the young are spreading the virus - in order to deal with this we need to know what's happening and react to it, not put our heads in the sand or cast blame. Its not a blame issue, it is just an issue of knowing the facts.
It is also very clear that there's much more of a grip on where infections are coming from when they do follow up the track/trace.
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safe
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treaty
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
Yep, tossing out their biggest election winner in decades nine months after his landslide would definitely not be a batshit-insane thing to do.
I think you are right, he is in effect dictator until 2024 or he decides otherwise. Even if the Tory MPs get a leadership contest, he will play the ultra Brexit card and win the following leadership contest with the membership pretty easily.
So Barnier is now threatening to ban UK food exports to the EU if no trade deal is agreed, if the UK responds in kind better stock up on the brie and champagne and paella and pasta
He's not threatening anything of the kind. That is the default position in EU law. By definition, no deal means no deal. If there's no deal, we will by definition be a third-party country without recognition of our standards by the EU, and therefore under EU law, then specific and very well defined rules apply. These rules are not exactly a state secret, they are published on the EU websites:
Sane people have been pointing this out for at least three years, when the fantasy that we could crash out with no deal first started becoming popular with the nutjobs and then the Conservative Party as a whole.
It really isn't hard to understand.
As for us 'retaliating' by cutting off our own food supplies, well I suppose it might be good idea because it would lead to the immediate collapse of the government, and that might be the quickest route to sanity, starting from where we are.
Tariffs may apply but banning UK food exports altogether is a different matter and our food complies to a high standard of production
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safe
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treaty
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.
I am going nowhere
I will fight to regain the integrity of the party and see the end to the Boris Cummings disaster
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safe
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treaty
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.
"He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea" that he campaigned for just ten months ago...
Only Boris could make Theresa May seem like Churchill.
Theresa May was Chamberlain to Boris's Churchill.
More like Baldwin to Boris's Chamberlain.
Don't say that. He'll start calling the WA a piece of paper that gave us time to rearm.
He's not far off saying that.
He's actually quite like Chamberlain in style. Every new fact which comes up and proves he's wrong is taken as a reason to think he's right. Like Chamberlain he ignores the warnings of the sensible. Like Chamberlain he is very conceited and thinks he has a special understanding of affairs which the civil service experts don't have. And in Cummings he even has his modern-day equivalent of Sir Horace Wilson:
Lord Woolton recalled in his memoir that Wilson, "found himself enjoying tremendous power – in fact a power unequalled by any member of the Cabinet except the Prime Minister." On another occasion Woolton noted that Wilson left him after a dinner early saying, "I must go and look after my master: he's feeling very lonely just now".
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safe
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treaty
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.
The fact that you have deceived (by your own admission) a handful of closet Essex kippers into electing you as a minor functionary does not put you in a position to speak for the party nor to suggest who should or should not belong to it. You are an admirer of Johnson who is not a conservative, but is a right wing populist shit. You are not a conservative but are a right wing populist ... let's leave it there.
25% of Scots voted Tory in 2019, that means a quarter of Scots are not Scottish then
What a disgraceful thing to say. You can't believe it, do you? But as I recall, the Tories claimed in November 2013 that any criticism of the Tories was moptivated principally by anti-English racism. I also recall that they shyt down that attack line very quickly when they realised what they were saying.
That would be the same Bruno Waterfield who praised Boris Johnson for getting the deal and now calls it 'The Internal Market Bill clears up the ambiguity and the contradictions of the deliberate smoke-and-mirrors inherent in the Northern Ireland Protocol,'
Sounds like its time for conservative mps to start sending in their letters to the 1922
You did not even vote for him in the leadership vote when Boris won 51% of Tory MPs and 66% of Tory members votes and he has a majority of 80 and still leads most polls, Boris is safe
Dear me, do you not see just how he has just trashed the conservative brand by tearing up an international treaty
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
He has taken action to avoid a hard border in the Irish Sea, however if you refuse to now support the party leader elected by the party membership and MPs and elected PM by the voters last year you are quite welcome to resign from the party and join the LDs or Starmer Labour.
I am going nowhere
I will fight to regain the integrity of the party and see the end to the Boris Cummings disaster
If you continue your fight to undermine and attack the party leader you may not resign but you may find it is you being thrown out not Boris
Comments
Johnson could have pulled the plug on the negotiations at any point. "No offence to our friends and neighbours, but we and they just need different things. The transition will run until the end of December, them we will trade with the EU on terms similar to Australia. Provided we organise properly, all will be fine." There would have been some grumbling, but with a majority of 80, it would have been ignorable. And a No Deal announced in (say) February or even July would have been less likely to fail than one announced in October.
But in doing that, No Deal would have been his decision. All the responsibility for anything going wrong would be on his shoulders. Which isn't his idea of fun at all.
So- my hunch is that the point of this week's shenanigans was to create a disturbance which would collapse negotiations and allow him to blame someone else. Starmer, Barnier, anyone else. After all, it worked last autumn. (Remember that the government was all set to filibuster the Benn bill in the Lords, just before prorogation kicked in. Then they didn't. The memoirs of that day will be interesting.)
The trouble is that, for a couple of reasons (government majority of 80, Starmer being able to read the sign saying "THIS IS A HUGE TRAP"), the opposition aren't playing ball.
So he has created a bill with a poison pill. Nobody in the opposition is going to stop him swallowing it. Maybe there's a plan.
Your move, Mr Johnson.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54113416
...4.4 million acres have been razed, according to the National Interagency Fire Center - an area larger than Connecticut and slightly smaller than Wales....
And this whole speech is "back me, or..."
Imagine being associated with this embarrassment.
Doesn't use their graph - which uses a much larger Y axis
Seems unlikely.
Starmer is a rather foreign sounding name is it not? Everyone knows where they are with a Johnson!
ROFL
Young people need to go out, have fun, fall in love, make babies. That's how humanity will survive, in the end, not by endless, life-crushing, economy-squashing quarantines that never really work anyway.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8721645/Gordon-Brown-blasts-Boris-Johnson-Brexit-plans.html
Doing the 10,000 steps a day challenge since well April, and I've worn away my current trainers.
After that.....
https://youtu.be/zpsOquSlXIA
https://twitter.com/Shandypockets/status/1304430608152776710?s=20
He is shameless and needs to either resign or be thrown out
What counts is the wording of the bill.
https://ec.europa.eu/food/safety/official_controls/legislation/imports_en#:~:text=The European Union is a,products from the EU itself.
Sane people have been pointing this out for at least three years, when the fantasy that we could crash out with no deal first started becoming popular with the nutjobs and then the Conservative Party as a whole.
It really isn't hard to understand.
As for us 'retaliating' by cutting off our own food supplies, well I suppose it might be good idea because it would lead to the immediate collapse of the government, and that might be the quickest route to sanity, starting from where we are.
Twat.
That is what has changed
Philip assured us Johnson's deal didn't do this, oh well, wrong again
I will fight to regain the integrity of the party and see the end to the Boris Cummings disaster
@Philip_Thompson will you now admit you were wrong
The 70s, Heath, Wilson, Callaghan were worse, by far, than anything recent.
The coalition government with Cameron and Clegg was really good.
May was good too - She will finish up rather unfairly and unluckily judged.
Boris - few PMs have faced such a challenge. We'll see,
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/11/the-eu-cant-handle-british-independence/
He's actually quite like Chamberlain in style. Every new fact which comes up and proves he's wrong is taken as a reason to think he's right. Like Chamberlain he ignores the warnings of the sensible. Like Chamberlain he is very conceited and thinks he has a special understanding of affairs which the civil service experts don't have. And in Cummings he even has his modern-day equivalent of Sir Horace Wilson:
Lord Woolton recalled in his memoir that Wilson, "found himself enjoying tremendous power – in fact a power unequalled by any member of the Cabinet except the Prime Minister." On another occasion Woolton noted that Wilson left him after a dinner early saying, "I must go and look after my master: he's feeling very lonely just now".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Wilson_(civil_servant)