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Comments
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We have one too: an elderly neighbour diagonally across from us.Peter_the_Punter said:
Funnily enough that is almost exactly what our next door neighbour said to us when trying to justify a snide remark about a trip we made to London. She was wrong in every material respect but of course facts and evidence don't bother your average curtaintwitcher.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
As it happens, she's a bitch. There are plenty out there. How much encouragement you want to give such people? You want them forming vigilante groups? I promise you they'd love it.
It results in the worst sort of community mistrust, suspicion and a breakdown of social cohesion.
The benefit of the doubt should be given unless the violation is flagrant and obvious and then, first, I'd politely raise it with my neighbor first to ask if everything was ok.1 -
As I have said the only problem Cummings had with an out of touch elite controlling everything was the He specifically was not it.Stuartinromford said:
Nothing happens in this government without Cummings's approval. The whole re-wiring project is all about that. And we know that Dom is very keen on control.contrarian said:
Is it Cummings driving this? I wonder.Foxy said:
Central command centre, ruthless purges, everyone an informer, Cummings really has a soft spot for Stalinism.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
Basically, if you're supporting this government for libertarian reasons, you've been had.4 -
Legislation to prevent the spread of Covid was clearly necessary, and has been implemented globally - even in Brazil and the USA, for example. I agree, however, that getting the force of that legislation right is a difficult balancing act. Despite what some say, we have never been under "house arrest". France has had significantly stricter legislation. Personally I haven't felt my civil liberties significantly curtailed. Although I'm an ardent opponent of the current government, I don't think the legislative measures have been unreasonable in pursuit of a reduction in the death rate.TOPPING said:
Do you not see how legislating with such force to prevent an illness is a dangerous path to take?Northern_Al said:
Yes, I'm with you and, remarkably, BluestBlue as well. There's no comparison at all. I also see this largely as a matter of deterrent. Hopefully it will make folk think twice about having house parties ("the neighbours might grass me up"), so the amount of snitching necessary will be minimal. Of course, there will always be curtain-twitchers who phone the police about stuff, but we have those in normal times.FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
I'm also curious as to what Contrarian thinks the motive behind these new measures is. He's always angry about stuff, but I just don't see these restrictions as a government attempt to court popularity. What's in it for them?2 -
Sight seekers, shurely? I’m told it’s *the* place to get an eye test.rottenborough said:
The town is full of sightseers.MarqueeMark said:
Not Barnard Castle?rottenborough said:
I was going to report my neighbours but when I phoned the hotline they said I would have to drive 300 miles to Fife to complete the report.Pagan2 said:
It really has gone too far now and requires civil disobedience on a huge scale. The rules as far as I can see boil down to....ydoethur said:
I’m wondering if I can afford to get everyone in the 15 miles north of Durham a really good pair of binoculars.Pagan2 said:
The obvious thing to do is to report all your neighbours everyday. If we all do it then it becomes unworkablecontrarian said:
It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
The fact is, these things are being done.
That seems to be the way to ease these restrictions.
1) If someone makes money its fine and safe to mix
2) If no one is making money then you mustn't mix.
The public aren't as stupid as Boris is hoping1 -
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...2 -
And who decides that they are 'obviously breaking the law'? Bitch next door was sure we were. She couldn't have been more wrong but you try telling a self-righteous little Nazi that. For the sort of helful informing you have in mind you need names, numbers, addresses and times. There's no shortage of self-appointed coppers out there with nothing better to do than spy on their neighbours so they can report them. The usual result is a lot of upset and the massive wasting of police time. You really want this?FeersumEnjineeya said:
What a ridiculous answer. No, I don't want them forming vigilante groups. Yes, I want them to inform the police if people are obviously breaking the law and thus endangering my vulnerable relatives.Peter_the_Punter said:
Funnily enough that is almost exactly what our next door neighbour said to us when trying to justify a snide remark about a trip we made to London. She was wrong in every material respect but of course facts and evidence don't bother your average curtaintwitcher.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
As it happens, she's a bitch. There are plenty out there. How much encouragement you want to give such people? You want them forming vigilante groups? I promise you they'd love it.
I remember back at the start of this crisis remarking to a friend that the UK (and, in particular, my vulnerable relatives) are fucked because people are too bloody-minded and self-entitled to follow rules and too timid to challenge or report others breaking the rules. How prescient was that?
Leave the coppering to the coppers.3 -
It’s maybe worth remembering how strict the Italians got.Northern_Al said:
Legislation to prevent the spread of Covid was clearly necessary, and has been implemented globally - even in Brazil and the USA, for example. I agree, however, that getting the force of that legislation right is a difficult balancing act. Despite what some say, we have never been under "house arrest". France has had significantly stricter legislation. Personally I haven't felt my civil liberties significantly curtailed. Although I'm an ardent opponent of the current government, I don't think the legislative measures have been unreasonable in pursuit of a reduction in the death rate.TOPPING said:
Do you not see how legislating with such force to prevent an illness is a dangerous path to take?Northern_Al said:
Yes, I'm with you and, remarkably, BluestBlue as well. There's no comparison at all. I also see this largely as a matter of deterrent. Hopefully it will make folk think twice about having house parties ("the neighbours might grass me up"), so the amount of snitching necessary will be minimal. Of course, there will always be curtain-twitchers who phone the police about stuff, but we have those in normal times.FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
I'm also curious as to what Contrarian thinks the motive behind these new measures is. He's always angry about stuff, but I just don't see these restrictions as a government attempt to court popularity. What's in it for them?
https://youtu.be/KxtGJsnLgSc0 -
Exactly. Our curtaintwitcher had every opportunity to speak to us first. It would have cleared the matter up in an instant. Last thing she was going to do though. She wanted to grass us up. Some people are just like that. They don't need any encouragement.Casino_Royale said:
We have one too: an elderly neighbour diagonally across from us.Peter_the_Punter said:
Funnily enough that is almost exactly what our next door neighbour said to us when trying to justify a snide remark about a trip we made to London. She was wrong in every material respect but of course facts and evidence don't bother your average curtaintwitcher.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
As it happens, she's a bitch. There are plenty out there. How much encouragement you want to give such people? You want them forming vigilante groups? I promise you they'd love it.
It results in the worst sort of community mistrust, suspicion and a breakdown of social cohesion.
The benefit of the doubt should be given unless the violation is flagrant and obvious and then, first, I'd politely raise it with my neighbor first to ask if everything was ok.3 -
Interesting thought: would that make those who bet on Biden as next President losers?CarlottaVance said:Interesting hypothesis:
https://twitter.com/HuffPostPol/status/1303737681650888706?s=200 -
They do it for the power.Peter_the_Punter said:
Exactly. Our curtaintwitcher had every opportunity to speak to us first. It would have cleared the matter up in an instant. Last thing she was going to do though. She wanted to grass us up. Some people are just like that. They don't need any encouragement.Casino_Royale said:
We have one too: an elderly neighbour diagonally across from us.Peter_the_Punter said:
Funnily enough that is almost exactly what our next door neighbour said to us when trying to justify a snide remark about a trip we made to London. She was wrong in every material respect but of course facts and evidence don't bother your average curtaintwitcher.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
As it happens, she's a bitch. There are plenty out there. How much encouragement you want to give such people? You want them forming vigilante groups? I promise you they'd love it.
It results in the worst sort of community mistrust, suspicion and a breakdown of social cohesion.
The benefit of the doubt should be given unless the violation is flagrant and obvious and then, first, I'd politely raise it with my neighbor first to ask if everything was ok.
And because they secretly dislike themselves too.
People are weird.1 -
I think a number of police forces said reports to them were largely baseless when this last happened in April.Peter_the_Punter said:
And who decides that they are 'obviously breaking the law'? Bitch next door was sure we were. She couldn't have been more wrong but you try telling a self-righteous little Nazi that. For the sort of helful informing you have in mind you need names, numbers, addresses and times. There's no shortage of self-appointed coppers out there with nothing better to do than spy on their neighbours so they can report them. The usual result is a lot of upset and the massive wasting of police time. You really want this?FeersumEnjineeya said:
What a ridiculous answer. No, I don't want them forming vigilante groups. Yes, I want them to inform the police if people are obviously breaking the law and thus endangering my vulnerable relatives.Peter_the_Punter said:
Funnily enough that is almost exactly what our next door neighbour said to us when trying to justify a snide remark about a trip we made to London. She was wrong in every material respect but of course facts and evidence don't bother your average curtaintwitcher.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
As it happens, she's a bitch. There are plenty out there. How much encouragement you want to give such people? You want them forming vigilante groups? I promise you they'd love it.
I remember back at the start of this crisis remarking to a friend that the UK (and, in particular, my vulnerable relatives) are fucked because people are too bloody-minded and self-entitled to follow rules and too timid to challenge or report others breaking the rules. How prescient was that?
Leave the coppering to the coppers.
But, then, the Government weren't encouraging it.2 -
Off Topic
Saw the presser.
...and by the way Mr Johnson, you are not "my Prime Minister". Who does he think he is? The Queen!0 -
Next President market on Betfair is based on winner of the EC.MarqueeMark said:
Interesting thought: would that make those who bet on Biden as next President losers?CarlottaVance said:Interesting hypothesis:
https://twitter.com/HuffPostPol/status/1303737681650888706?s=200 -
Do they wait until the ECV members cast votes in December to settle bets?Alistair said:
Next President market on Betfair is based on winner of the EC.MarqueeMark said:
Interesting thought: would that make those who bet on Biden as next President losers?CarlottaVance said:Interesting hypothesis:
https://twitter.com/HuffPostPol/status/1303737681650888706?s=200 -
Maybe. What is the death rate at the moment? Not that I think a resurgence couldn't occur but the vast majority of people are not at risk and those that are will in any case take precautions.Northern_Al said:
Legislation to prevent the spread of Covid was clearly necessary, and has been implemented globally - even in Brazil and the USA, for example. I agree, however, that getting the force of that legislation right is a difficult balancing act. Despite what some say, we have never been under "house arrest". France has had significantly stricter legislation. Personally I haven't felt my civil liberties significantly curtailed. Although I'm an ardent opponent of the current government, I don't think the legislative measures have been unreasonable in pursuit of a reduction in the death rate.TOPPING said:
Do you not see how legislating with such force to prevent an illness is a dangerous path to take?Northern_Al said:
Yes, I'm with you and, remarkably, BluestBlue as well. There's no comparison at all. I also see this largely as a matter of deterrent. Hopefully it will make folk think twice about having house parties ("the neighbours might grass me up"), so the amount of snitching necessary will be minimal. Of course, there will always be curtain-twitchers who phone the police about stuff, but we have those in normal times.FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
I'm also curious as to what Contrarian thinks the motive behind these new measures is. He's always angry about stuff, but I just don't see these restrictions as a government attempt to court popularity. What's in it for them?
I don't like the instructions to snitch even though I understand it is to prevent law breaking. But in this case as Boris came close to admitting, we are also being asked to accept some illogicalities in the restrictions so more leeway and trust should be employed.0 -
If he expects integrity from ABdP Johnson, I have a bridge to sell him.CarlottaVance said:0 -
0
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Equally stunning is effing Woodward keeping it to himself for months.Scott_xP said:
Like his book sales take precedence over the rest of the country....0 -
Yes - decisive win would be a more accurate description. I'll be calling it a landslide though if I possibly can. ☺Peter_the_Punter said:
That's about my take, though maybe less of the 'landslide'. It should be comfortable enough but Florida is different and will probably stay red.kinabalu said:
"Trump out in Dem landslide but Florida stubbornly stays red".Drutt said:Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.
I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.
What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.0 -
https://twitter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible0 -
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Oh god yes. But another dettolgate will lose some of the few remaining undecideds.Peter_the_Punter said:
He can talk pure broken biscuits and his fans will lap it up.kinabalu said:
I would prefer you to be right. If he tries to wing it there's a good chance of a disaster.Peter_the_Punter said:
No, I don't think so. He's making a virtue of necessity. I don't think he has the mental acumen to absorb the advice he is given, nor the humility to accept. He'll wing it, as he wings most things. It's worked before, he thinks it will work again.kinabalu said:I think this is bullshit from Trump. He'll be prepping.
I mean, it's not as if his core vote is hot on textual analysis.0 -
We have a vaccine for flurottenborough said:
Usually by that stage it is too late.contrarian said:
Agreed. But many on here think its OK.rottenborough said:Just logging back in. Have I got this right? Marshals will patrol our streets enforcing covid regulations?
What the hell happened to us? We've collectively lost our minds.
I wonder how far this needs to get before they think things are not OK.
How long before these restrictions need to happen every winter because of flu? Maybe that is too paranoid, but it something people should at least ask.1 -
He sounded fine to me but of course the left and those who do not want a hard Brexit want him to resign, though with an 80 seat Tory majority it would make no differenceCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible1 -
FPT:CorrectHorseBattery said:witter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible
The BBC used this one....
0 -
If Texas flips, it's a landslide. Otherwise it's a normal win or a damn close thing.kinabalu said:
Yes - decisive win would be a more accurate description. I'll be calling it a landslide though if I possibly can. ☺Peter_the_Punter said:
That's about my take, though maybe less of the 'landslide'. It should be comfortable enough but Florida is different and will probably stay red.kinabalu said:
"Trump out in Dem landslide but Florida stubbornly stays red".Drutt said:Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.
I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.
What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.
I don't honestly think Texas will flip, but if it does the ECV distortion switches too. Instead of the ECV system favoring the GOP, it will then favor the Democrats. Cue bitter complaints about the system's unfairness!1 -
I’m less exercised about Brexit than about how shit a PM he’s proving to be.HYUFD said:
He sounded fine to me but of course the left and those who do not want a hard Brexit want him to resign, though with an 80 seat Tory majority it would make no differenceCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible1 -
I do want him gone but I think your party would benefit in the long run by him going as well, not just me saying that here either.HYUFD said:
He sounded fine to me but of course the left and those who do not want a hard Brexit want him to resign, though with an 80 seat Tory majority it would make no differenceCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible
He doesn't look well, I don't see how you deny it.0 -
So long as it’s a few days...TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm resigned to Trump winning on election night but postals making Biden President a few days later.Drutt said:Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.
I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.
What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.
Then we're headed for an epic shitshow.
The Deadline That Could Hand Trump the Election
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-biden-electoral-count-act-1887/615994/0 -
That was after 18 years of Tory rule, 2024 will only be after 14 years and Starmer is still more leftwing and less charismatic than Blair and Boris has a more robust culturally conservative coalition than Major did. Even Blair did not win most votes in England in 2005 and Blair is the only Labour leader to win a majority of seats in England since 1966williamglenn said:FPT
You may be too young to remember this, but the Tories have been crushed in England before, and opinions can move dramatically from one election to the next.HYUFD said:
More likely it will only be as a United Kingdom, without Scottish MPs the chances of Starmer becoming PM and shifting to a softer EEA style Brexit are very remote, hard Brexit with a re elected Tories in England and Wales is likelyFF43 said:EEA is Norway's baby so it will be a UK equivalent if it happens. Clearly worse than EU membership: you get all the constraints with none of the influence over things that matter to you. The opposite of "taking control". However if we accept EU membership is gone for good, which almost everyone does now, it is possible to have straight trade off between self interest of a close relationship with the rest of our continent and being able to do what we like as long as it's in isolation. I always assumed we would get to this point some stage. I am no longer confident that will be as the United Kingdom.
England-only 1992 GE:
Conservative 319
Labour 195
England-only 1997 GE:
Labour 328
Conservative 1650 -
So, Mr Churchill, you can take your blackout rules, and Home Guard, and rationing, and stick them somewhere.rottenborough said:
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...1 -
Trump's own lawyers said that he shouldn't speak directly to the Special Counsel as he was incapable of doing so without perjuring himself. The guy says the dumbest stuff at the drop of a hat, and that's when he's not lying about easily verifiable things.Peter_the_Punter said:
No, I don't think so. He's making a virtue of necessity. I don't think he has the mental acumen to absorb the advice he is given, nor the humility to accept. He'll wing it, as he wings most things. It's worked before, he thinks it will work again.kinabalu said:I think this is bullshit from Trump. He'll be prepping.
1 -
Thanks Hyufd. That's Trump's best result on a day of many polls.HYUFD said:1 -
What makes you think he cares?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
We are not sure on here that Boris knows what the rule of law means...0 -
It's alright, they'll send the Marshals in.Peter_the_Punter said:
And who decides that they are 'obviously breaking the law'? Bitch next door was sure we were. She couldn't have been more wrong but you try telling a self-righteous little Nazi that. For the sort of helful informing you have in mind you need names, numbers, addresses and times. There's no shortage of self-appointed coppers out there with nothing better to do than spy on their neighbours so they can report them. The usual result is a lot of upset and the massive wasting of police time. You really want this?FeersumEnjineeya said:
What a ridiculous answer. No, I don't want them forming vigilante groups. Yes, I want them to inform the police if people are obviously breaking the law and thus endangering my vulnerable relatives.Peter_the_Punter said:
Funnily enough that is almost exactly what our next door neighbour said to us when trying to justify a snide remark about a trip we made to London. She was wrong in every material respect but of course facts and evidence don't bother your average curtaintwitcher.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
As it happens, she's a bitch. There are plenty out there. How much encouragement you want to give such people? You want them forming vigilante groups? I promise you they'd love it.
I remember back at the start of this crisis remarking to a friend that the UK (and, in particular, my vulnerable relatives) are fucked because people are too bloody-minded and self-entitled to follow rules and too timid to challenge or report others breaking the rules. How prescient was that?
Leave the coppering to the coppers.
0 -
Would you say that the seeds for 1997 were setting in a few years before and to me it looks similar to that now on the Tory side? Tory poll lead has disappeared and Johnson is unpopular.HYUFD said:
That was after 18 years of Tory rule, 2024 will only be after 14 years and Starmer is still more leftwing and less charismatic than Blair and Boris has a more robust culturally conservative coalition than Major did. Even Blair did not win most votes in England in 2005 and Blair is the only Labour leader to win a majority of seats in England since 1966williamglenn said:FPT
You may be too young to remember this, but the Tories have been crushed in England before, and opinions can move dramatically from one election to the next.HYUFD said:
More likely it will only be as a United Kingdom, without Scottish MPs the chances of Starmer becoming PM and shifting to a softer EEA style Brexit are very remote, hard Brexit with a re elected Tories in England and Wales is likelyFF43 said:EEA is Norway's baby so it will be a UK equivalent if it happens. Clearly worse than EU membership: you get all the constraints with none of the influence over things that matter to you. The opposite of "taking control". However if we accept EU membership is gone for good, which almost everyone does now, it is possible to have straight trade off between self interest of a close relationship with the rest of our continent and being able to do what we like as long as it's in isolation. I always assumed we would get to this point some stage. I am no longer confident that will be as the United Kingdom.
England-only 1992 GE:
Conservative 319
Labour 195
England-only 1997 GE:
Labour 328
Conservative 165
Starmer may be no Blair but he's as popular as Blair was - IPSOS0 -
Boris is by far the most charismatic candidate the Tories have and plenty of voters switched from Labour mainly as he was leader.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I do want him gone but I think your party would benefit in the long run by him going as well, not just me saying that here either.HYUFD said:
He sounded fine to me but of course the left and those who do not want a hard Brexit want him to resign, though with an 80 seat Tory majority it would make no differenceCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible
He doesn't look well, I don't see how you deny it.
Sunak would only win back Remainers by switching to soft Brexit EEA but that means he also loses Leavers back to Farage and the Brexit Party that Boris would keep and if Sunak backed a hard Brexit under Boris after Boris went why would Remainers trust him over Starmer to switch to EEA anyway?0 -
Or cares.Beibheirli_C said:
What makes you think he cares?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
We are not sure on here that Boris knows what the rule of law means...1 -
Is it a 12" truncheon?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
0 -
It is Rasmussen but would be 2016 2 if repeated in November, Trump matching his 2016 voteshare and Biden matching Hillary's 2016 voteshare (and Rasmussen to be fair did correctly get Hillary's 2% lead in the popular vote correct in its final 2016 poll)Peter_the_Punter said:
Thanks Hyufd. That's Trump's best result on a day of many polls.HYUFD said:0 -
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/13036016385491845131 -
That is a completely false equivocation for one we were in a war where there was significant danger if those rules weren't followed and the rules werentAndy_Cooke said:
So, Mr Churchill, you can take your blackout rules, and Home Guard, and rationing, and stick them somewhere.rottenborough said:
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...
You must observe the black out and rationing unless someone will make some cash by you not doing so0 -
That catches his essence rather well for me. That is the arch bullshitter in mid bullshit.Beibheirli_C said:
FPT:CorrectHorseBattery said:witter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible
The BBC used this one....0 -
Any chance of some punctuation occasionally? I had to read that three times and my head now hurts!HYUFD said:
Boris is by far the most charismatic candidate the Tories have and plenty of voters switched from Labour mainly as he was leader.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I do want him gone but I think your party would benefit in the long run by him going as well, not just me saying that here either.HYUFD said:
He sounded fine to me but of course the left and those who do not want a hard Brexit want him to resign, though with an 80 seat Tory majority it would make no differenceCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible
He doesn't look well, I don't see how you deny it.
Sunak would only win back Remainers by switching to soft Brexit EEA but that means he also loses Leavers back to Farage and the Brexit Party that Boris would keep and if Sunak backed a hard Brexit under Boris after Boris went why would Remainers trust him over Starmer to switch to EEA anyway?0 -
Is that a result that delivers the EC?Peter_the_Punter said:
Thanks Hyufd. That's Trump's best result on a day of many polls.HYUFD said:0 -
No.Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
0 -
Not even close.Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/13036016385491845130 -
As some of you will know, my nephew died earlier this year during the lockdown, by his own hand. His parents were unable to help him because of the restrictions.
As a family we have decided that they will not be left alone to bear their grief, especially at Xmas.
Just saving any marshals or curtain twitchers the bother of having to denounce us. Mind you, round here the police are as rare as wildebeest.4 -
Confusingly, no.Andy_JS said:
Do they wait until the ECV members cast votes in December to settle bets?Alistair said:
Next President market on Betfair is based on winner of the EC.MarqueeMark said:
Interesting thought: would that make those who bet on Biden as next President losers?CarlottaVance said:Interesting hypothesis:
https://twitter.com/HuffPostPol/status/1303737681650888706?s=200 -
I feel punctuation would spoil the essential HYUFD effect.Northern_Al said:
Any chance of some punctuation occasionally? I had to read that three times and my head now hurts!HYUFD said:
Boris is by far the most charismatic candidate the Tories have and plenty of voters switched from Labour mainly as he was leader.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I do want him gone but I think your party would benefit in the long run by him going as well, not just me saying that here either.HYUFD said:
He sounded fine to me but of course the left and those who do not want a hard Brexit want him to resign, though with an 80 seat Tory majority it would make no differenceCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible
He doesn't look well, I don't see how you deny it.
Sunak would only win back Remainers by switching to soft Brexit EEA but that means he also loses Leavers back to Farage and the Brexit Party that Boris would keep and if Sunak backed a hard Brexit under Boris after Boris went why would Remainers trust him over Starmer to switch to EEA anyway?1 -
So considering the QC here is hardly a Brexiteer but is saying exactly what I was saying, from before I saw him say it, please tell me what he has got wrong here?Nigelb said:
Not even close.Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/13036016385491845130 -
Best wishes for your family.Cyclefree said:As some of you will know, my nephew died earlier this year during the lockdown, by his own hand. His parents were unable to help him because of the restrictions.
As a family we have decided that they will not be left alone to bear their grief, especially at Xmas.
Just saving any marshals or curtain twitchers the bother of having to denounce us. Mind you, round here the police are as rare as wildebeest.
I despise curtain twitchers: you never know what's going on in someone else's household. If you're concerned about another family offer help and support not judgement.3 -
Yes, Christmas and Birthdays etc they need family.Cyclefree said:As some of you will know, my nephew died earlier this year during the lockdown, by his own hand. His parents were unable to help him because of the restrictions.
As a family we have decided that they will not be left alone to bear their grief, especially at Xmas.
Just saving any marshals or curtain twitchers the bother of having to denounce us. Mind you, round here the police are as rare as wildebeest.
Lots of depressed patients today resigned and fed up by the news of increasing cases and tightening restrictions despite the beautiful autumn weather here. Its going to be a long lonely winter for a lot of people.3 -
Here you go.Northern_Al said:
Any chance of some punctuation occasionally? I had to read that three times and my head now hurts!HYUFD said:
Boris is by far the most charismatic candidate the Tories have and plenty of voters switched from Labour mainly as he was leader.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I do want him gone but I think your party would benefit in the long run by him going as well, not just me saying that here either.HYUFD said:
He sounded fine to me but of course the left and those who do not want a hard Brexit want him to resign, though with an 80 seat Tory majority it would make no differenceCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible
He doesn't look well, I don't see how you deny it.
Sunak would only win back Remainers by switching to soft Brexit EEA but that means he also loses Leavers back to Farage and the Brexit Party that Boris would keep and if Sunak backed a hard Brexit under Boris after Boris went why would Remainers trust him over Starmer to switch to EEA anyway?
............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,;;;;;;;;;;;:::::::::''''''''''''''''''''''""""""""""""""""""???????????
Spread 'em around as you see fit.2 -
Covid-19 vaccine trial participant had serious neurological symptoms, but could be discharged today, AstraZeneca CEO says
https://www.statnews.com/2020/09/09/astrazeneca-covid19-vaccine-trial-hold-patient-report/
Not a placebo subject.
0 -
@Cyclefree ‘s question was whether you’d yet understood what was meant by the phrase ‘rule of law’.Philip_Thompson said:
So considering the QC here is hardly a Brexiteer but is saying exactly what I was saying, from before I saw him say it, please tell me what he has got wrong here?Nigelb said:
Not even close.Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601638549184513
The tweets are not wrong, but also not relevant to the question.0 -
Ominously, one of the 538 simulations is a 269-269 tie. Who thought an even number was a good idea?1
-
I don't get this all or nothing attitude. Nothing stopping them meeting one half of their family on one day, and another half on another.Foxy said:
Yes, Christmas and Birthdays etc they need family.Cyclefree said:As some of you will know, my nephew died earlier this year during the lockdown, by his own hand. His parents were unable to help him because of the restrictions.
As a family we have decided that they will not be left alone to bear their grief, especially at Xmas.
Just saving any marshals or curtain twitchers the bother of having to denounce us. Mind you, round here the police are as rare as wildebeest.
Lots of depressed patients today resigned and fed up by the news of increasing cases and tightening restrictions despite the beautiful autumn weather here. Its going to be a long lonely winter for a lot of people.0 -
So changing within the constitution isn't relevant to the rule of law?Nigelb said:
@Cyclefree ‘s question was whether you’d yet understood what was meant by the phrase ‘rule of law’.Philip_Thompson said:
So considering the QC here is hardly a Brexiteer but is saying exactly what I was saying, from before I saw him say it, please tell me what he has got wrong here?Nigelb said:
Not even close.Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601638549184513
The tweets are not wrong, but also not relevant to the question.0 -
Odd argument. Seems to be confusing different definitions of 'freedom'. I'm free to go and stab someone, but just because the law can't physically stop me it doesn't follow that my act of free agency somehow takes some kind of moral precedence. What would the world look like if minsters weren't 'free' - in his sense of the word - to break international law?Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/13036016385491845130 -
HYUFD is the Jack Kerouac of political punditry.Northern_Al said:
Any chance of some punctuation occasionally? I had to read that three times and my head now hurts!HYUFD said:
Boris is by far the most charismatic candidate the Tories have and plenty of voters switched from Labour mainly as he was leader.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I do want him gone but I think your party would benefit in the long run by him going as well, not just me saying that here either.HYUFD said:
He sounded fine to me but of course the left and those who do not want a hard Brexit want him to resign, though with an 80 seat Tory majority it would make no differenceCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Mr_Sam_Stewart/status/1303726716364492805
I honestly think for his health he must be considering resigning, he looks terrible
He doesn't look well, I don't see how you deny it.
Sunak would only win back Remainers by switching to soft Brexit EEA but that means he also loses Leavers back to Farage and the Brexit Party that Boris would keep and if Sunak backed a hard Brexit under Boris after Boris went why would Remainers trust him over Starmer to switch to EEA anyway?1 -
It would be a very worrying and dangerous place as far as I'm concerned.Stark_Dawning said:
Odd argument. Seems to be confusing different definitions of 'freedom'. I'm free to go and stab someone, but just because the law can't physically stop me it doesn't follow that my act of free agency somehow takes some kind of moral precedence. What would the world look like if minsters weren't 'free' - in his sense of the word - to break international law?Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/13036016385491845130 -
Didn't know that. Awful. My sympathiesCyclefree said:As some of you will know, my nephew died earlier this year during the lockdown, by his own hand. His parents were unable to help him because of the restrictions.
As a family we have decided that they will not be left alone to bear their grief, especially at Xmas.
Just saving any marshals or curtain twitchers the bother of having to denounce us. Mind you, round here the police are as rare as wildebeest.0 -
Is Philip a lawyer now0
-
The rule of 6 is hilarious. "Yes of course you can still go to the pub, just not with more than 5 other people". Because its far safer to be close by someone you don't know than that 6th member of your own family. "Of course you can go to school" and all walk home together across the park. Just don't play football on the way home.0
-
Why is it hilarious? If transmission is between strangers, reducing the number of strangers you meet surely helps reduce transmission overall?RochdalePioneers said:The rule of 6 is hilarious. "Yes of course you can still go to the pub, just not with more than 5 other people". Because its far safer to be close by someone you don't know than that 6th member of your own family. "Of course you can go to school" and all walk home together across the park. Just don't play football on the way home.
1 -
This talk of massive Dem early voting means it is only going to play into Trump's hands..... Millions of votes not resolved by December 14th?Nigelb said:
So long as it’s a few days...TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm resigned to Trump winning on election night but postals making Biden President a few days later.Drutt said:Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.
I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.
What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.
Then we're headed for an epic shitshow.
The Deadline That Could Hand Trump the Election
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-biden-electoral-count-act-1887/615994/0 -
What would actually happen in that situation? I mean, theoretically/constitutionally, rather than absolute chaos as the reality.RobD said:Ominously, one of the 538 simulations is a 269-269 tie. Who thought an even number was a good idea?
0 -
QTWAIN.CorrectHorseBattery said:Is Philip a lawyer now
0 -
This is truly horrendous.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
As is the Mail’s front page online blaming young people for the new rules.
There is a creepy, sinister authoritarian bent to covidian policy.0 -
The House decides the presidency, the senate the vice presidency. But they do some type of bloc voting in the house where each state counts equal or something.solarflare said:
What would actually happen in that situation? I mean, theoretically/constitutionally, rather than absolute chaos as the reality.RobD said:Ominously, one of the 538 simulations is a 269-269 tie. Who thought an even number was a good idea?
0 -
That does sound a bit stupid.RochdalePioneers said:The rule of 6 is hilarious. "Yes of course you can still go to the pub, just not with more than 5 other people". Because its far safer to be close by someone you don't know than that 6th member of your own family. "Of course you can go to school" and all walk home together across the park. Just don't play football on the way home.
1 -
Re: christmas. The thing is that regardless of the overall COVID rules, the Government could easily, if it so chose, make an exception for Christmas and perhaps Boxing day if it so chose and announce it today. Given that most corresponding social activity will be shut down at that time. Few people in pubs/at work/in shops. On public transport. Schools on holiday. Given that the govt is constantly arguing that opening up the country represents trade offs between differing activities. Schools vs work vs pubs vs shops vs... etc
But give people some advance notice so they can make their plans in advance. And stick to it. Give people something to look forward to. After all, the new year is likely to be pretty miserable. What with the constant diet of baked beans and long life bread.0 -
Trump lost 2 votes last time at that final stage.Alistair said:
Confusingly, no.Andy_JS said:
Do they wait until the ECV members cast votes in December to settle bets?Alistair said:
Next President market on Betfair is based on winner of the EC.MarqueeMark said:
Interesting thought: would that make those who bet on Biden as next President losers?CarlottaVance said:Interesting hypothesis:
https://twitter.com/HuffPostPol/status/1303737681650888706?s=200 -
I'm not sure what alternative you would prefer?RochdalePioneers said:The rule of 6 is hilarious. "Yes of course you can still go to the pub, just not with more than 5 other people". Because its far safer to be close by someone you don't know than that 6th member of your own family. "Of course you can go to school" and all walk home together across the park. Just don't play football on the way home.
Short of a complete free for all (which can be argued for) a line has to be drawn somewhere. If this is "hilarious" then where would you draw the line?0 -
I don't know what argument Maugham is replying to, but my reaction to his tweets is "So what?" Everything he says is perfectly correct, but it is also perfectly correct if you delete "legislation that breaches international law" and substitute "legislation for the extermination of the Jews."Stark_Dawning said:
Odd argument. Seems to be confusing different definitions of 'freedom'. I'm free to go and stab someone, but just because the law can't physically stop me it doesn't follow that my act of free agency somehow takes some kind of moral precedence. What would the world look like if minsters weren't 'free' - in his sense of the word - to break international law?Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/13036016385491845132 -
I think we Six Ells are massively underserved by today’s political class.
Lean Left / Loosely Libertarian / Largely Liberal
Are we really that rare?1 -
Most states have tightened up on faithless elector laws since - plus SCOTUS has backed the legality of faithless elector laws.Andy_JS said:
Trump lost 2 votes last time at that final stage.Alistair said:
Confusingly, no.Andy_JS said:
Do they wait until the ECV members cast votes in December to settle bets?Alistair said:
Next President market on Betfair is based on winner of the EC.MarqueeMark said:
Interesting thought: would that make those who bet on Biden as next President losers?CarlottaVance said:Interesting hypothesis:
https://twitter.com/HuffPostPol/status/1303737681650888706?s=201 -
More likely the way it's going the Government will encourage the big office Christmas party and night out to help the hospitality industry, and then ban the somewhat less lucrative smaller family gatherings in the house. After all, the restaurants and pubs etc. have magic "protocols" in place...alex_ said:Re: christmas. The thing is that regardless of the overall COVID rules, the Government could easily, if it so chose, make an exception for Christmas and perhaps Boxing day if it so chose and announce it today. Given that most corresponding social activity will be shut down at that time. Few people in pubs/at work/in shops. On public transport. Schools on holiday. Given that the govt is constantly arguing that opening up the country represents trade offs between differing activities. Schools vs work vs pubs vs shops vs... etc
But give people some advance notice so they can make their plans in advance. And stick to it. Give people something to look forward to. After all, the new year is likely to be pretty miserable. What with the constant diet of baked beans and long life bread.1 -
But you've nothing to worry about because governments are free, and will always be free, to break international law, in just the same way that I'm 'free' to go and commit murder. Of course, I don't do it for a number of reasons: moral scruples, fear of consequences, social opprobrium etc. International law has parallel reasons for not breaking it.Philip_Thompson said:
It would be a very worrying and dangerous place as far as I'm concerned.Stark_Dawning said:
Odd argument. Seems to be confusing different definitions of 'freedom'. I'm free to go and stab someone, but just because the law can't physically stop me it doesn't follow that my act of free agency somehow takes some kind of moral precedence. What would the world look like if minsters weren't 'free' - in his sense of the word - to break international law?Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/13036016385491845130 -
You'd then have to make exceptions for Eid x 2, Diwali, Passover, Ed Balls Day...alex_ said:Re: christmas. The thing is that regardless of the overall COVID rules, the Government could easily, if it so chose, make an exception for Christmas and perhaps Boxing day if it so chose and announce it today. Given that most corresponding social activity will be shut down at that time. Few people in pubs/at work/in shops. On public transport. Schools on holiday. Given that the govt is constantly arguing that opening up the country represents trade offs between differing activities. Schools vs work vs pubs vs shops vs... etc
But give people some advance notice so they can make their plans in advance. And stick to it. Give people something to look forward to. After all, the new year is likely to be pretty miserable. What with the constant diet of baked beans and long life bread.0 -
Hen's teeth. You're going to have to choose. ☺Anabobazina said:I think we Six Ells are massively underserved by today’s political class.
Lean Left / Loosely Libertarian / Largely Liberal
Are we really that rare?0 -
I do hope we're out of this by Ed Balls Day 2021.IshmaelZ said:
You'd then have to make exceptions for Eid x 2, Diwali, Passover, Ed Balls Day...alex_ said:Re: christmas. The thing is that regardless of the overall COVID rules, the Government could easily, if it so chose, make an exception for Christmas and perhaps Boxing day if it so chose and announce it today. Given that most corresponding social activity will be shut down at that time. Few people in pubs/at work/in shops. On public transport. Schools on holiday. Given that the govt is constantly arguing that opening up the country represents trade offs between differing activities. Schools vs work vs pubs vs shops vs... etc
But give people some advance notice so they can make their plans in advance. And stick to it. Give people something to look forward to. After all, the new year is likely to be pretty miserable. What with the constant diet of baked beans and long life bread.0 -
I thought, and still (marginally) think the odious Trumpton will win.
Yet when I did my map it showed Biden winning 270-268. My thinking was that Biden underperforms in PA but overperforms in AZ due to demographic change.
I posted my map on the previous thread. It’s surely too weird to actually happen??0 -
Of course, most of the time it is good to not break it, but some of the time it is. When that is, is a matter of politics.Stark_Dawning said:
But you've nothing to worry about because governments are free, and will always be free, to break international law, in just the same way that I'm 'free' to go and commit murder. Of course, I don't do it for a number of reasons: moral scruples, fear of consequences, social opprobrium etc. International law has parallel reasons for not breaking it.Philip_Thompson said:
It would be a very worrying and dangerous place as far as I'm concerned.Stark_Dawning said:
Odd argument. Seems to be confusing different definitions of 'freedom'. I'm free to go and stab someone, but just because the law can't physically stop me it doesn't follow that my act of free agency somehow takes some kind of moral precedence. What would the world look like if minsters weren't 'free' - in his sense of the word - to break international law?Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601638549184513
Sticking by a bad law just because its the law is no more acceptable to me than "only following orders" as to why you killed innocent people.0 -
Can someone please write a 500 page book on why the left have become so authoritarian over the last 20 years or so.2
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Not putting my shirt on it.RobD said:
I do hope we're out of this by Ed Balls Day 2021.IshmaelZ said:
You'd then have to make exceptions for Eid x 2, Diwali, Passover, Ed Balls Day...alex_ said:Re: christmas. The thing is that regardless of the overall COVID rules, the Government could easily, if it so chose, make an exception for Christmas and perhaps Boxing day if it so chose and announce it today. Given that most corresponding social activity will be shut down at that time. Few people in pubs/at work/in shops. On public transport. Schools on holiday. Given that the govt is constantly arguing that opening up the country represents trade offs between differing activities. Schools vs work vs pubs vs shops vs... etc
But give people some advance notice so they can make their plans in advance. And stick to it. Give people something to look forward to. After all, the new year is likely to be pretty miserable. What with the constant diet of baked beans and long life bread.0 -
Likewise.LadyG said:
Didn't know that. Awful. My sympathiesCyclefree said:As some of you will know, my nephew died earlier this year during the lockdown, by his own hand. His parents were unable to help him because of the restrictions.
As a family we have decided that they will not be left alone to bear their grief, especially at Xmas.
Just saving any marshals or curtain twitchers the bother of having to denounce us. Mind you, round here the police are as rare as wildebeest.0 -
Is this a bad faith argument to try and argue away the Government breaking the law?Andy_JS said:Can someone please write a 500 page book on why the left have become so authoritarian over the last 20 years or so.
0 -
Because - briefly - Parliamentary sovereignty and the rule of law are not the same thing.Philip_Thompson said:
So considering the QC here is hardly a Brexiteer but is saying exactly what I was saying, from before I saw him say it, please tell me what he has got wrong here?Nigelb said:
Not even close.Philip_Thompson said:
Is this reasonable?Cyclefree said:I’ve been busy. Has @Philip_Thompson learnt what the rule of law means yet?
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601637106298883
https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1303601638549184513
You think, wrongly, that the first is the same as the second and the only thing necessary for the second to exist.
If you really want to understand this topic, I can only advise you to read Tom Bingham’s The Rule of Law, available in paperback for £7.55. Not a long book, very wise and elegantly written and as clear an explanation as you can get without needing to train as a lawyer.
(Or more cheekily you can read this - https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/03/11/political-rights-and-wrongs/ - which makes a similar point about Parliament, even as a law-maker, being constrained by and subject to, the rule of law.)1 -
Not sure blackout blinds infringes an essential liberty.Andy_Cooke said:
So, Mr Churchill, you can take your blackout rules, and Home Guard, and rationing, and stick them somewhere.rottenborough said:
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."Beibheirli_C said:
It always starts with the best of intentions...FeersumEnjineeya said:
In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).BluestBlue said:
Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.Beibheirli_C said:
I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.contrarian said:
That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.Beibheirli_C said:
I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."dixiedean said:FPT.
There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
FFS!
When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
And here we are...0 -
I’ve just had some broth so I should be right as rain asap.4
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Unless one of your mates has the good forethought to sketch out a team sheet and formation on the back of his maths textbook. In which case, it’s an organised game and thus allowed.RochdalePioneers said:The rule of 6 is hilarious. "Yes of course you can still go to the pub, just not with more than 5 other people". Because its far safer to be close by someone you don't know than that 6th member of your own family. "Of course you can go to school" and all walk home together across the park. Just don't play football on the way home.
0 -
You could start your own political party, but I think you'd need a catchier name.Anabobazina said:I think we Six Ells are massively underserved by today’s political class.
Lean Left / Loosely Libertarian / Largely Liberal
Are we really that rare?0 -
It’s perfectly possible to be all three!kinabalu said:
Hen's teeth. You're going to have to choose. ☺Anabobazina said:I think we Six Ells are massively underserved by today’s political class.
Lean Left / Loosely Libertarian / Largely Liberal
Are we really that rare?0
