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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump decides that he doesn’t need special preparation for the

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 9 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump decides that he doesn’t need special preparation for the WH2020 TV debates

The next big event in the White House race is the the first TV debate between Trump and Biden – something that at previous elections contenders have put a lot of effort preparing for trying to anticipate how the event will go and have ready some biting attack lines.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,649
    First to cancel Christmas - Boris Johnons.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 34,049
    FPT
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    EEA is Norway's baby so it will be a UK equivalent if it happens. Clearly worse than EU membership: you get all the constraints with none of the influence over things that matter to you. The opposite of "taking control". However if we accept EU membership is gone for good, which almost everyone does now, it is possible to have straight trade off between self interest of a close relationship with the rest of our continent and being able to do what we like as long as it's in isolation. I always assumed we would get to this point some stage. I am no longer confident that will be as the United Kingdom.

    More likely it will only be as a United Kingdom, without Scottish MPs the chances of Starmer becoming PM and shifting to a softer EEA style Brexit are very remote, hard Brexit with a re elected Tories in England and Wales is likely
    You may be too young to remember this, but the Tories have been crushed in England before, and opinions can move dramatically from one election to the next.

    England-only 1992 GE:

    Conservative 319
    Labour 195

    England-only 1997 GE:

    Labour 328
    Conservative 165
  • My tip on Biden winning the first debate is looking good now.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 3,569
    Will Santa wear a mask at Christmas?
  • First?
  • First?

    Damn, forgot to refresh page.

    Anyway, surely this is just an attempt at resetting expectations - if the debates go badly for the incumbant its because he wasn't even trying.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 1,970
    I know Trump can act totally wierd, but surely an element of kidology on this claim.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 11,397
    edited September 9
    Problem is, governments (not just the Johnson one) have no plan that they have shared with the public for living with the virus. They did lockdown and then piecemeal unlockdown. They need a plan that allows as much as possible of normal life while keeping the epidemic in check. IMO this plan needs to cover:
    • Best hygiene practices - Currently not diligent enough to keep R down. We need masks at all times in public except where transmission risk is low; sanitisation; rigorous distancing in confined and crowded spaces. All this needs to be enforced.
    • Risk mitigation for the activities that are allowed - Better on this but the rules need some tightening up
    • Choice of activities that are allowed. eg if opening schools is important that might mean, even if the two points above are sorted out, that other activities like going into the office when not required should be deprecated, to keep R within 1
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,108

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    EEA is Norway's baby so it will be a UK equivalent if it happens. Clearly worse than EU membership: you get all the constraints with none of the influence over things that matter to you. The opposite of "taking control". However if we accept EU membership is gone for good, which almost everyone does now, it is possible to have straight trade off between self interest of a close relationship with the rest of our continent and being able to do what we like as long as it's in isolation. I always assumed we would get to this point some stage. I am no longer confident that will be as the United Kingdom.

    More likely it will only be as a United Kingdom, without Scottish MPs the chances of Starmer becoming PM and shifting to a softer EEA style Brexit are very remote, hard Brexit with a re elected Tories in England and Wales is likely
    You may be too young to remember this, but the Tories have been crushed in England before, and opinions can move dramatically from one election to the next.

    England-only 1992 GE:

    Conservative 319
    Labour 195

    England-only 1997 GE:

    Labour 328
    Conservative 165
    And of course historically the Conservatives were the pro European party, and party of business. That pendulum may well swing back.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 2,403
    edited September 9
    OT:

    Er, this is exactly what Trump said and how it was reported this time in 2016:

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/donald-trump-debate-prep

    'Donald Trump may be down in the polls, but he doesn’t appear to be worried about the upcoming presidential debates. While Hillary Clinton is reportedly taking a characteristically multi-disciplinary approach to preparing for their three face-to-face meetings, poring over policy briefings, consulting experts in psychology about her opponent’s state of mind, and grilling his former ghostwriter for firsthand knowledge about his temperament, Trump has reportedly declined to do his pre-debate homework. Despite the fact that the televised debates are the Republican nominee’s best chance to turn the tables on Clinton ahead of Election Day, Trump, according to reports, is just going to wing it.'

    'Trump campaign staffers have put together briefing books, The Washington Post reports, but the candidate has hardly looked at them. “I believe you can prep too much for those things,” Trump recently told The New York Times, suggesting that reviewing policy or conducting mock debates might jeopardize his blustery authenticity. “It can be dangerous. You can sound scripted or phony—like you’re trying to be someone you’re not.”'

    Nothing has changed, as it were.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,391
    FPT:
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Average age of mail returners for North Carolina so far ?

    64.6

    I have had a quick scan through and have yet to find any split households with a registered Dem and registered GOP husband and wife combo.
    Is it unusual in the USA for people of different political affiliations/preferences to marry or live together ?
    It's more common here I think.
  • Section 45 of the Internal Market Bill provides the template for how the government will turn the UK into Hungary. Paragraph g, especially, merits very careful consideration because it can so easily be adapted and incorporated into other legislation.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597
    The most astonishing thing about those proposals is that the public is being encouraged to rat on neighbours

    When the gestapo did it. the big problem they had was that they were inundated. They never had enough staff to cope with the numbers of denunciations.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,391
    edited September 9
    Trump's got quite an off the cuff style, so not overprepping may well be to his advantage.
    Think Biden still wins as the "Who won" split will follow the generic polls.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 8,023
    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 2,403

    Section 45 of the Internal Market Bill provides the template for how the government will turn the UK into Hungary. Paragraph g, especially, merits very careful consideration because it can so easily be adapted and incorporated into other legislation.

    Shurely you should welcome this close alignment with an EU Member State... :wink:
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,953
    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 35,146
    edited September 9

    Section 45 of the Internal Market Bill provides the template for how the government will turn the UK into Hungary. Paragraph g, especially, merits very careful consideration because it can so easily be adapted and incorporated into other legislation.

    If you're going to do it, do it right.

    They'll probably still get tripped up by a Dunny-in-the-Wold Parish Council resolution....
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 964
    We're not even into winter proper yet and already we're clamping back down having effectively only really released a few weeks ago, so doesn't really bode particularly well for the next 4 or 5 months, does it?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,391
    Tit for tat neighbour grassing :D ?!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 76,595
    edited September 9
    To be fair to Trump he went into the 2016 debates behind in the polls, he lost all 3 debates to Hillary but yet he still won the EC and the election.

    So if he beats Biden in any debate this autumn it will be a bonus for his campaign relative to 2016
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597
    Pulpstar said:

    Tit for tat neighbour grassing :D ?!

    You think this is funny? it really isn;t
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,108

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    Central command centre, ruthless purges, everyone an informer, Cummings really has a soft spot for Stalinism.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 35,146
    In an occasional series, the yabsoluly yooooge Clifden Nonpareil, aka Blue Underwing moth. From my Devon garden last night. Once a moth people could only dream of seeing, it now seems to be having a significant resurgence.


  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    Central command centre, ruthless purges, everyone an informer, Cummings really has a soft spot for Stalinism.
    Is it Cummings driving this? I wonder.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,953

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    The excuse being used is COVID.

    No COVID, no excuse.
  • Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    Central command centre, ruthless purges, everyone an informer, Cummings really has a soft spot for Stalinism.
    Is it Cummings driving this? I wonder.
    Nothing happens in this government without Cummings's approval. The whole re-wiring project is all about that. And we know that Dom is very keen on control.

    Basically, if you're supporting this government for libertarian reasons, you've been had.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,953
    This is the moment for the House of Lords to step up...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 2,403

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 8,023

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    Central command centre, ruthless purges, everyone an informer, Cummings really has a soft spot for Stalinism.
    Is it Cummings driving this? I wonder.
    He claims to be a Leninist.
  • Remember snitches get bitches.

    It could be a modern day droit du seigneur.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,953

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    Yes. The workers and proles are needed for the furtherance of The Project whatever it is.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 35,623
    edited September 9

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    Central command centre, ruthless purges, everyone an informer, Cummings really has a soft spot for Stalinism.
    Is it Cummings driving this? I wonder.
    Nothing happens in this government without Cummings's approval. The whole re-wiring project is all about that. And we know that Dom is very keen on control.

    Basically, if you're supporting this government for libertarian reasons, you've been had.
    Breaking

    Keir Starmer supports HMG and urges everyone to follow the rules

    Also he wants the rules enforced
  • Wow, Trump is crazy isn't he?

    I stand by my 10% estimate for his chances but this won't likely help him. There's a part of me that thinks he maybe isn't even giving it all and is just going through the motions for fun now.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.

    The fact is, these things are being done.
  • dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    This is bound to bring out the inner School Prefect in many. We've actually experienced some of this already but we live in a small quiet town in the West Midlands. You know the kind of place - Curtaintwitcher Central. Maybe it won't be so bad elsewhere.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    Central command centre, ruthless purges, everyone an informer, Cummings really has a soft spot for Stalinism.
    Is it Cummings driving this? I wonder.
    Nothing happens in this government without Cummings's approval. The whole re-wiring project is all about that. And we know that Dom is very keen on control.

    Basically, if you're supporting this government for libertarian reasons, you've been had.
    What's the blooming alternative? There's no suggestion Lab or lib would do any different.
  • Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    Central command centre, ruthless purges, everyone an informer, Cummings really has a soft spot for Stalinism.
    Is it Cummings driving this? I wonder.
    Nothing happens in this government without Cummings's approval. The whole re-wiring project is all about that. And we know that Dom is very keen on control.

    Basically, if you're supporting this government for libertarian reasons, you've been had.
    Breaking

    Keir Starmer supports HMG and urges everyone to follow the rules

    Also he wants the rules enforced
    I agree- they're sensible necessary rules.

    But I'm not a libertarian.
  • FPT
    Nigelb said:

    Lancet living up to its reputation for thorough peer review....

    The Lancet is a comic with an idiotic editor, it needs to be closed down for repeatedly publishing damaging fake news from believing and supporting Andrew Wakefield, and defending that charlatan Roy Meadow.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,953

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    This is bound to bring out the inner School Prefect in many. We've actually experienced some of this already but we live in a small quiet town in the West Midlands. You know the kind of place - Curtaintwitcher Central. Maybe it won't be so bad elsewhere.
    There are plenty of malicious SoB's everywhere. IIRC, 1 in 4 East Germans were on the Stasi payroll. I doubt the UK will be any different ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 13,980
    I think this is bullshit from Trump. He'll be prepping.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,042
    Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.

    I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.

    What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.
  • This is the moment for the House of Lords to step up...

    Still respecting democracy I see ...
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 1,908
    edited September 9

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 13,980
    Drutt said:

    Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.

    I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.

    What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.

    "Trump out in Dem landslide but Florida stubbornly stays red".
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,953

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).
    It always starts with the best of intentions...
  • kinabalu said:

    I think this is bullshit from Trump. He'll be prepping.

    No, I don't think so. He's making a virtue of necessity. I don't think he has the mental acumen to absorb the advice he is given, nor the humility to accept. He'll wing it, as he wings most things. It's worked before, he thinks it will work again.

    I mean, it's not as if his core vote is hot on textual analysis.
  • Drutt said:

    Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.

    I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.

    What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.

    I'm resigned to Trump winning on election night but postals making Biden President a few days later.

    Then we're headed for an epic shitshow.
  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 263
    The problem with Mike's insight is that - assuming Trump's telling the truth - it sets up the debates as a near re-run of current PMQs.

    Where the populist thug, who got away with winging it as a non-incumbent candidate, gets regularly eaten alive by a properly prepared, sane, intelligent (but uncharismatic) contender.

    Yet, however awful Johnson is at PMQs, the Tories' share of voting intentions has hardly moved, and in almost every poll is better than Cameron or Thatcher managed a year into office.

    What matters isn't how political geeks rate the performance: it's how the populist heartland see things. And in Britain right now, it's almost as if the more Starmer makes Johnson look a pillock, the more the Johnson core react "Well, that's just another smartarse lawyer with 20/20 hindsight"

    Trump's shown once that he understands Middle America better than the Dems.
  • dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).
    It always starts with the best of intentions...
    Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 13,980

    kinabalu said:

    I think this is bullshit from Trump. He'll be prepping.

    No, I don't think so. He's making a virtue of necessity. I don't think he has the mental acumen to absorb the advice he is given, nor the humility to accept. He'll wing it, as he wings most things. It's worked before, he thinks it will work again.

    I mean, it's not as if his core vote is hot on textual analysis.
    I would prefer you to be right. If he tries to wing it there's a good chance of a disaster.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 1,429

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.

    The fact is, these things are being done.
    The obvious thing to do is to report all your neighbours everyday. If we all do it then it becomes unworkable
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428
    Perhaps with Trump, Kushner, Pence et al he thought there would be too many dicks on show in the situation room already?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 9,703
    Drutt said:

    Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.

    I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.

    What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.

    New phone; who dis?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597
    Rasmussen has Biden's lead over Trump narrowing to two nationally (from four), for what that is worth.
  • Stop feeding Philip the troll and he might go away
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 35,649
    Just logging back in. Have I got this right? Marshals will patrol our streets enforcing covid regulations?

    What the hell happened to us? We've collectively lost our minds.



  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.

    The fact is, these things are being done.
    The obvious thing to do is to report all your neighbours everyday. If we all do it then it becomes unworkable
    I’m wondering if I can afford to get everyone in the 15 miles north of Durham a really good pair of binoculars.

    That seems to be the way to ease these restrictions.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597

    Just logging back in. Have I got this right? Marshals will patrol our streets enforcing covid regulations?

    What the hell happened to us? We've collectively lost our minds.



    Agreed. But many on here think its OK.

    I wonder how far this needs to get before they think things are not OK.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 1,429
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.

    The fact is, these things are being done.
    The obvious thing to do is to report all your neighbours everyday. If we all do it then it becomes unworkable
    I’m wondering if I can afford to get everyone in the 15 miles north of Durham a really good pair of binoculars.

    That seems to be the way to ease these restrictions.
    It really has gone too far now and requires civil disobedience on a huge scale. The rules as far as I can see boil down to....

    1) If someone makes money its fine and safe to mix

    2) If no one is making money then you mustn't mix.

    The public aren't as stupid as Boris is hoping
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 9,703
    I’m so glad I studied law and order, and police powers last year.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 8,084
    edited September 9

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).
    It always starts with the best of intentions...
    Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?
    Funnily enough that is almost exactly what our next door neighbour said to us when trying to justify a snide remark about a trip we made to London. She was wrong in every material respect but of course facts and evidence don't bother your average curtaintwitcher.

    As it happens, she's a bitch. There are plenty out there. How much encouragement you want to give such people? You want them forming vigilante groups? I promise you they'd love it.

  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.

    The fact is, these things are being done.
    The obvious thing to do is to report all your neighbours everyday. If we all do it then it becomes unworkable
    I’m wondering if I can afford to get everyone in the 15 miles north of Durham a really good pair of binoculars.

    That seems to be the way to ease these restrictions.
    It really has gone too far now and requires civil disobedience on a huge scale. The rules as far as I can see boil down to....

    1) If someone makes money its fine and safe to mix

    2) If no one is making money then you mustn't mix.

    The public aren't as stupid as Boris is hoping
    Disobey and you will be snitched on by your neighbour or friendly local covid marshall.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 1,429

    Just logging back in. Have I got this right? Marshals will patrol our streets enforcing covid regulations?

    What the hell happened to us? We've collectively lost our minds.



    Agreed. But many on here think its OK.

    I wonder how far this needs to get before they think things are not OK.
    We can at least make them smart I am sure Hugo Boss would design them some uniforms
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 35,649
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.

    The fact is, these things are being done.
    The obvious thing to do is to report all your neighbours everyday. If we all do it then it becomes unworkable
    I’m wondering if I can afford to get everyone in the 15 miles north of Durham a really good pair of binoculars.

    That seems to be the way to ease these restrictions.
    It really has gone too far now and requires civil disobedience on a huge scale. The rules as far as I can see boil down to....

    1) If someone makes money its fine and safe to mix

    2) If no one is making money then you mustn't mix.

    The public aren't as stupid as Boris is hoping
    I was going to report my neighbours but when I phoned the hotline they said I would have to drive 300 miles to Fife to complete the report.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,953

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).
    It always starts with the best of intentions...
    Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?
    Where will you draw the line? What are the illegal activates? Do you have a list? Or will you simply be reporting anything you do not like the look of?

    BTW - I no longer report burglary or assault because the Police do f--- all about it. The last time I reported somebody stealing a car (and photographed it) they did not even want the photos. The force involved was Greater Manchester Police (save you asking)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 35,649

    Just logging back in. Have I got this right? Marshals will patrol our streets enforcing covid regulations?

    What the hell happened to us? We've collectively lost our minds.



    Agreed. But many on here think its OK.

    I wonder how far this needs to get before they think things are not OK.
    Usually by that stage it is too late.

    How long before these restrictions need to happen every winter because of flu? Maybe that is too paranoid, but it something people should at least ask.
  • dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).
    Yes, I'm with you and, remarkably, BluestBlue as well. There's no comparison at all. I also see this largely as a matter of deterrent. Hopefully it will make folk think twice about having house parties ("the neighbours might grass me up"), so the amount of snitching necessary will be minimal. Of course, there will always be curtain-twitchers who phone the police about stuff, but we have those in normal times.

    I'm also curious as to what Contrarian thinks the motive behind these new measures is. He's always angry about stuff, but I just don't see these restrictions as a government attempt to court popularity. What's in it for them?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 3,284

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).
    It always starts with the best of intentions...
    Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?
    Nobody likes a grass.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 35,146

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.

    The fact is, these things are being done.
    The obvious thing to do is to report all your neighbours everyday. If we all do it then it becomes unworkable
    I’m wondering if I can afford to get everyone in the 15 miles north of Durham a really good pair of binoculars.

    That seems to be the way to ease these restrictions.
    It really has gone too far now and requires civil disobedience on a huge scale. The rules as far as I can see boil down to....

    1) If someone makes money its fine and safe to mix

    2) If no one is making money then you mustn't mix.

    The public aren't as stupid as Boris is hoping
    I was going to report my neighbours but when I phoned the hotline they said I would have to drive 300 miles to Fife to complete the report.
    Not Barnard Castle?
  • kinabalu said:

    Drutt said:

    Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.

    I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.

    What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.

    "Trump out in Dem landslide but Florida stubbornly stays red".
    That's about my take, though maybe less of the 'landslide'. It should be comfortable enough but Florida is different and will probably stay red.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428
    edited September 9
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.

    The fact is, these things are being done.
    The obvious thing to do is to report all your neighbours everyday. If we all do it then it becomes unworkable
    I’m wondering if I can afford to get everyone in the 15 miles north of Durham a really good pair of binoculars.

    That seems to be the way to ease these restrictions.
    It really has gone too far now and requires civil disobedience on a huge scale. The rules as far as I can see boil down to....

    1) If someone makes money its fine and safe to mix

    2) If no one is making money then you mustn't mix.

    The public aren't as stupid as Boris is hoping
    THe rules are, of course:

    1) You do what we fucking tell you

    2) We do what we fucking like.

    We have seen it time and time and time again, including today.

    This is because Cummings and Johnson genuinely think they’re brilliant and rules don’t apply to them. But they want us to do what we’re told because most men with small brains and probably smaller penises, they get a thrill from feeling powerful.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,953

    Drutt said:

    Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.

    I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.

    What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.

    I'm resigned to Trump winning on election night but postals making Biden President a few days later.

    Then we're headed for an epic shitshow.
    Why bother with Trump? We have our epic sh*tshow...
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 2,597

    Just logging back in. Have I got this right? Marshals will patrol our streets enforcing covid regulations?

    What the hell happened to us? We've collectively lost our minds.



    Agreed. But many on here think its OK.

    I wonder how far this needs to get before they think things are not OK.
    Usually by that stage it is too late.

    How long before these restrictions need to happen every winter because of flu? Maybe that is too paranoid, but it something people should at least ask.
    The enormous faith many are placing on a vaccine suddenly giving us all our freedoms back is quite something.

    its quite clear things are not going to happen like that.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 11,397
    edited September 9
    I can envisage "retired environmental health officers" being involved in Covid suppression in ways that don't involve the Gestapo. eg risk-assessing establishments and advising owners how to bring them into compliance in areas where they fall short.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 41,922
    Organised? You're too generous monsieur.....

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 6,746
    ydoethur said:

    Perhaps with Trump, Kushner, Pence et al he thought there would be too many dicks on show in the situation room already?
    The existing US missile defence system(s) have a capability vs a small attack, such as by North Korea. It would be possible to shoot down a small number of warheads.

    The flight time of a North Korean ballistic missile to the US would be of the order of 40 minutes.

    Given detection delays, chain of command etc. 2 extra minutes could be vital.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 24,704
    edited September 9

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).
    Yes, I'm with you and, remarkably, BluestBlue as well. There's no comparison at all. I also see this largely as a matter of deterrent. Hopefully it will make folk think twice about having house parties ("the neighbours might grass me up"), so the amount of snitching necessary will be minimal. Of course, there will always be curtain-twitchers who phone the police about stuff, but we have those in normal times.

    I'm also curious as to what Contrarian thinks the motive behind these new measures is. He's always angry about stuff, but I just don't see these restrictions as a government attempt to court popularity. What's in it for them?
    Do you not see how legislating with such force to prevent an illness is a dangerous path to take?
  • dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    In agreement with you, possibly for the first time ever. The comparison between informing the police about events which are illegal and detrimental to public heath with the sort of stuff that went on in Nazi/East Germany is absurd (I have relatives who grew up in and escaped from the latter regime).
    It always starts with the best of intentions...
    Why would I not inform the police about illegal activities that are detrimental to the well-being of my vulnerable relatives? What else would you turn a blind eye to? Burglary? Assault?
    Funnily enough that is almost exactly what our next door neighbour said to us when trying to justify a snide remark about a trip we made to London. She was wrong in every material respect but of course facts and evidence don't bother your average curtaintwitcher.

    As it happens, she's a bitch. There are plenty out there. How much encouragement you want to give such people? You want them forming vigilante groups? I promise you they'd love it.

    What a ridiculous answer. No, I don't want them forming vigilante groups. Yes, I want them to inform the police if people are obviously breaking the law and thus endangering my vulnerable relatives.

    I remember back at the start of this crisis remarking to a friend that the UK (and, in particular, my vulnerable relatives) are fucked because people are too bloody-minded and self-entitled to follow rules and too timid to challenge or report others breaking the rules. How prescient was that?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,428
    FF43 said:

    I can envisage "retired environmental health officers" being involved in Covid suppression that don't involve the Gestapo. eg risk-assessing establishments and advising owners how to bring them into compliance in areas where they fall short.

    I thought environmental health officers were supposed to catch rats?
  • This weekend:

    Tories: +8
  • MattWMattW Posts: 4,302
    Had an account of a funny access blocking argument this week:

    "Local glazier, finding our lane blocked, screamed blue murder at a 45 tonne piling rig: rang the police in front of us all.

    Poor bloke, he managed to make a real fool of himself in front of everyone.

    Especially when the super-helpful copper reminded him (he's a local) that our lane has two entrances or exits, and he could simply turn round and reach his customers by using the other entrance.

    The local copper popped in the other day.... we both giggled at the memory. "

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 7,002

    This weekend:

    Tories: +8

    Is that a prediction? I think it'll stay pretty close between the parties.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 28,099

    Wow, Trump is crazy isn't he?

    I stand by my 10% estimate for his chances but this won't likely help him. There's a part of me that thinks he maybe isn't even giving it all and is just going through the motions for fun now.

    TBF he won last time doing just that
  • Andy_JS said:

    This weekend:

    Tories: +8

    Is that a prediction? I think it'll stay pretty close between the parties.
    It was a joke but I suspect the Tories go up, I hate their attitude to the law but it's surely worth a few points in the polls
  • Flanner said:

    The problem with Mike's insight is that - assuming Trump's telling the truth - it sets up the debates as a near re-run of current PMQs.

    Where the populist thug, who got away with winging it as a non-incumbent candidate, gets regularly eaten alive by a properly prepared, sane, intelligent (but uncharismatic) contender.

    Yet, however awful Johnson is at PMQs, the Tories' share of voting intentions has hardly moved, and in almost every poll is better than Cameron or Thatcher managed a year into office.

    What matters isn't how political geeks rate the performance: it's how the populist heartland see things. And in Britain right now, it's almost as if the more Starmer makes Johnson look a pillock, the more the Johnson core react "Well, that's just another smartarse lawyer with 20/20 hindsight"

    Trump's shown once that he understands Middle America better than the Dems.

    The audience that matters at PMQs is not voters, it is Tory backbenchers. Iain Duncan Smith was defenestrated for getting pasted by Blair once a week; in actual elections, IDS's Conservatives did quite well but this did not save him.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I think this is bullshit from Trump. He'll be prepping.

    No, I don't think so. He's making a virtue of necessity. I don't think he has the mental acumen to absorb the advice he is given, nor the humility to accept. He'll wing it, as he wings most things. It's worked before, he thinks it will work again.

    I mean, it's not as if his core vote is hot on textual analysis.
    I would prefer you to be right. If he tries to wing it there's a good chance of a disaster.
    He can talk pure broken biscuits and his fans will lap it up.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 35,649

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    FPT.
    There is a hitherto unnoticed sleeping army of "retired environmental officers?"
    Have they been lying dormant in some underground lair awaiting the call to arise!?
    This is like one of the non-Russell T Davies Torchwoods.

    I am more perturbed by the "... neighbours are encouraged to inform on offenders ..."

    FFS!

    When did we become East-Germany-on-Sea?
    That really is a stomach churning turn of phrase isn;t it? just awful.

    As I say when the Gestapo did it, they were inundated. What's to stop people informing maliciously?
    I warned about this sort of thing about a year ago when some of the madder pronouncements and proroguing was going on - about how we were becoming more and more fascist.

    And here we are...
    Yes, fascist regimes were well known for their characteristic love of community enforcement of public health measures during a pandemic. One of the defining traits of that political system in all the textbooks.
    It doesn;t matter what the excuse is for breaking up public meetings, creating government snitch networks, imposing curfews and encouraging neighbours to betray each other. Every tin pot despot will find his own excuse.

    The fact is, these things are being done.
    The obvious thing to do is to report all your neighbours everyday. If we all do it then it becomes unworkable
    I’m wondering if I can afford to get everyone in the 15 miles north of Durham a really good pair of binoculars.

    That seems to be the way to ease these restrictions.
    It really has gone too far now and requires civil disobedience on a huge scale. The rules as far as I can see boil down to....

    1) If someone makes money its fine and safe to mix

    2) If no one is making money then you mustn't mix.

    The public aren't as stupid as Boris is hoping
    I was going to report my neighbours but when I phoned the hotline they said I would have to drive 300 miles to Fife to complete the report.
    Not Barnard Castle?
    The town is full of sightseers.

  • Drutt said:

    Hello again everyone. Been away a while. New phone.

    I very much doubt Trump is skipping preparation.

    What is everyone's headline prediction (12 words or fewer) for US elections? Broadly mine is 'Biden to squeak it because Great Lake states turn blue'.

    I'm resigned to Trump winning on election night but postals making Biden President a few days later.

    Then we're headed for an epic shitshow.
    ITYM we're heading for an exciting night's trading Trump on the way down before lumping on Biden a couple of days later.
This discussion has been closed.