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I really think a big part of the rise in cases is pillar 2 finding cases more efficiently than it did previously.0
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Geography is irrelevant, that is why.williamglenn said:
I see your problem. You think a Canada-style deal will make our relationship with the EU only as significant to us as Canada's relationship with the EU is to Canada and we won't have to think about it very much anymore. You're ignoring scale and geography.Philip_Thompson said:
Good. Maybe they can knock some heads together win von der Leyen and Barnier and the EU can accept the UK's entirely reasonable proposals: have fish settled like Norway, have state aid settled like Canada.Scott_xP said:
Then we can put all this behind us and move on with our lives.0 -
Tory voters by 50% to 28% and Leave voters by 49% to 25% now think a No Deal Brexit would be a good outcomeScott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1302994620331290625?s=200 -
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.0 -
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan2 -
Not a fan of the gravity model of trade, then?Philip_Thompson said:
Geography is irrelevant, that is why.williamglenn said:
I see your problem. You think a Canada-style deal will make our relationship with the EU only as significant to us as Canada's relationship with the EU is to Canada and we won't have to think about it very much anymore. You're ignoring scale and geography.Philip_Thompson said:
Good. Maybe they can knock some heads together win von der Leyen and Barnier and the EU can accept the UK's entirely reasonable proposals: have fish settled like Norway, have state aid settled like Canada.Scott_xP said:
Then we can put all this behind us and move on with our lives.0 -
Eire has a dog in the fight.MarqueeMark said:
You never have.Beibheirli_C said:On Topic:
Since we cannot trust anything the Govt says - since we have no idea what is posturing and what is actual intention - then all we can do is let it play out until we get to 1st Jan 2021. After that, the reality of Brexit will be there for all to see. Only then can we really judge.
I expect there to be a loud burst of jingoist rah-rah on New Year's Eve followed by a wake up call over the first few weeks.
I am not expecting it to be pleasant.
But you seem rather more rattled than when you were going rah-rah, waving your Irish passport in the faces of those less fortunate....2 -
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.1 -
Then why does YG poll say the majority don't support this proposal?Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.0 -
More Trumpers say they're going to head to the polls in person than Biden voters, I'm not sure it quite makes up for the apparent lopsidedness of the absentee requests though. I'd agree it seems to be good data for Biden and poor for Trump.MrEd said:
At a guess, the polling has not been great for him over the past few days and it is a cumulative effect.Peter_the_Punter said:What's causing the Donald's price to drift on Betfair? Surely it isn't just the Wisconsin poll from flaky old Rasmussen?
Hell, even if I said the data out of NC didn't look good for him this morning.
Mind you, good piece on NBC re NC: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/presidential-race-narrows-north-carolina-voters-say-they-want-face-n12392550 -
No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
I passionately believe there is a majority in the country for EEA0 -
That's why I am on Dems winning party!Pulpstar said:https://twitter.com/lindyli/status/1302641204778201088
No sound here, but seems like a good answer. One does get a slight twinge of Covid US betting related worries seeing him out in the open like this though !1 -
So we must just stand and watch our country's good name being dragged through the mud by someone for whom honesty is a rather attractive flower and not both a public as well as private virtue.Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.3 -
I passionately believe there is a vast majority in the country who have no idea what EEA is.CorrectHorseBattery said:No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
I passionately believe there is a majority in the country for EEA1 -
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.0 -
The Tories never bothered to explain it.MarqueeMark said:
I passionately believe there is a vast majority in the country who have no idea what EEA is.CorrectHorseBattery said:No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
I passionately believe there is a majority in the country for EEA0 -
I'd say it's the beginning of the reversal of the overly exuberant - not to say utterly without foundation - betting market rally that brought him in from 3 to 2 in the space of a few weeks.Peter_the_Punter said:What's causing the Donald's price to drift on Betfair? Surely it isn't just the Wisconsin poll from flaky old Rasmussen?
I will repeat my forecast. 3.5 by end of Sept. 5 on eve of election.
Then defeat by about 150 EC.2 -
Johnson got the plurality of the votes (ie more than anyone else), but only a minority of the total. Essentially Johnson engineered a takeover of the Conservative Party by UKIP/Brexit Party thus consolidating the Leave minority. While the neo-Remain majority is split across several parties. As long as that split stays, Johnson sits pretty.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Then why does YG poll say the majority don't support this proposal?Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.2 -
It's possibly a better opinion poll than yours?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan0 -
As I said above, I believe that splits as soon as Brexit becomes defined.FF43 said:
Johnson got the plurality of the votes (ie more than anyone else), but only a minority of the total. Essentially Johnson engineered a takeover of the Conservative Party by UKIP/Brexit Party thus consolidating the Leave minority. While the neo-Remain majority is split across several parties. As long as that split stays, Johnson sits pretty.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Then why does YG poll say the majority don't support this proposal?Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.0 -
YouGov is a reliable poster, I trust their findingsalterego said:
It's possibly a better opinion poll than yours?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan0 -
44% of the vote is not a majority and YouGov finds the majority don't want No Deal. The two match, this isn't controversial1
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Some very odd islands included on the list. Mykonos, Santorini and Crete are all regular big tourist destinations, but Tinos tends to be visited more by domestic Greeks on pilgrimages, and Serifos is a still a fairly unspoilt rocky beauty, with not that many tourists altogether.Rexel56 said:Regarding COVID cases being brought in by holiday makers... seven Greek islands have today been added to the ‘quarantine’ list. Five have international airports from which one might return and so be identified as a necessary stay-at-homer. Two have no airport (Tinos and Serifo) and so one would almost certainly return from Athens. How does that work? Do you have to effectively volunteer for quarantine? Better not wear the Tinos t-shirt when arriving at Gatwick.
I get the feeling that two cases = lockdown and quarantine for the UK govt, or something similar.0 -
Because they're an opinion pollster.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Then why does YG poll say the majority don't support this proposal?Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.
The only poll that matters is the election.0 -
Sadly yes. Just as many of us had to stand and watch as Tony Blair killed tens of thousands of innocent people in our name in Iraq. It sucks but it is the system. And as Churchill said it is the worst form of Government apart from all the others.OldKingCole said:
So we must just stand and watch our country's good name being dragged through the mud by someone for whom honesty is a rather attractive flower and not both a public as well as private virtue.Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.2 -
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.0 -
But the election confirms YouGov's findings, there isn't a majority for No Deal because as I said, Johnson did not get a majority of the vote.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they're an opinion pollster.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Then why does YG poll say the majority don't support this proposal?Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.
The only poll that matters is the election.0 -
I wish you were right but I honestly don't think so now. There was. But that time has passed.CorrectHorseBattery said:No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
I passionately believe there is a majority in the country for EEA1 -
The Government got 36% more votes than its next closest competitor.CorrectHorseBattery said:44% of the vote is not a majority and YouGov finds the majority don't want No Deal. The two match, this isn't controversial
What YouGov says is immaterial. We had the election already.0 -
Seems odd then that “geographic proximity” was explicitly written into the political declaration as a factor...Philip_Thompson said:
Geography is irrelevant, that is why.williamglenn said:
I see your problem. You think a Canada-style deal will make our relationship with the EU only as significant to us as Canada's relationship with the EU is to Canada and we won't have to think about it very much anymore. You're ignoring scale and geography.Philip_Thompson said:
Good. Maybe they can knock some heads together win von der Leyen and Barnier and the EU can accept the UK's entirely reasonable proposals: have fish settled like Norway, have state aid settled like Canada.Scott_xP said:
Then we can put all this behind us and move on with our lives.
0 -
2 things:CorrectHorseBattery said:No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
I passionately believe there is a majority in the country for EEA
1 We do not have a system of government by opinion poll.
2 All you need to do is win a GE for your passionate belief and you'll be fine.
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Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.0 -
I am less sure of that. As long as he can keep his Brexiteer minority together Johnson can safely ignore the majority. At the very least he and advisers believe this to be case.CorrectHorseBattery said:
As I said above, I believe that splits as soon as Brexit becomes defined.FF43 said:
Johnson got the plurality of the votes (ie more than anyone else), but only a minority of the total. Essentially Johnson engineered a takeover of the Conservative Party by UKIP/Brexit Party thus consolidating the Leave minority. While the neo-Remain majority is split across several parties. As long as that split stays, Johnson sits pretty.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Then why does YG poll say the majority don't support this proposal?Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.0 -
Thank you for confirming that no, Johnson did not get over 50% of the vote and so YouGov is correct.Philip_Thompson said:
The Government got 36% more votes than its next closest competitor.CorrectHorseBattery said:44% of the vote is not a majority and YouGov finds the majority don't want No Deal. The two match, this isn't controversial
What YouGov says is immaterial. We had the election already.0 -
More reliable than a vote by the electorate? Let's do away with elections and just have a YouGov poll. Save some money too.CorrectHorseBattery said:
YouGov is a reliable poster, I trust their findingsalterego said:
It's possibly a better opinion poll than yours?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan2 -
Agree about Iraq. Actually it's our electoral system that results in what the late Lord Hailsham called 'elective dictatorship'!Richard_Tyndall said:
Sadly yes. Just as many of us had to stand and watch as Tony Blair killed tens of thousands of innocent people in our name in Iraq. It sucks but it is the system. And as Churchill said it is the worst form of Government apart from all the others.OldKingCole said:
So we must just stand and watch our country's good name being dragged through the mud by someone for whom honesty is a rather attractive flower and not both a public as well as private virtue.Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.1 -
Whether YouGov is correct or not is irrelevant.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Thank you for confirming that no, Johnson did not get over 50% of the vote and so YouGov is correct.Philip_Thompson said:
The Government got 36% more votes than its next closest competitor.CorrectHorseBattery said:44% of the vote is not a majority and YouGov finds the majority don't want No Deal. The two match, this isn't controversial
What YouGov says is immaterial. We had the election already.
The country, by millions of votes, by 36% more votes than the next nearest rival, by a landslide I would say . . . backed this government.
The rest is fluff until the next election.2 -
In an actual election, Johnson did not get majority support for No Deal.felix said:
2 things:CorrectHorseBattery said:No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
I passionately believe there is a majority in the country for EEA
1 We do not have a system of government by opinion poll.
2 All you need to do is win a GE for your passionate belief and you'll be fine.
We can discuss FPTP all you like - but the reality is that the majority of Brits are not behind Johnson's Brexit plan. YouGov is simply confirming that.0 -
I ordered my home virus test last Wednesday, received it Friday lunchtime and booked a Saturday collection that afternoon, did the test Saturday morning, had it collected Saturday lunchtime, and got an SMS with my negative result just now.
We do appear to have got our act together on testing.4 -
When did Johnson get 50% of the vote in an election?alterego said:
More reliable than a vote by the electorate? Let's do away with elections and just have a YouGov poll. Save some money too.CorrectHorseBattery said:
YouGov is a reliable poster, I trust their findingsalterego said:
It's possibly a better opinion poll than yours?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan0 -
There has been a lot of talk about Labour facing a dangerous and uncertain future as a political party. That has tended to obscure the fact that, to all intents and purposes, the Conservative and Unionist party no longer exists.4
-
So what?CorrectHorseBattery said:
In an actual election, Johnson did not get majority support for No Deal.felix said:
2 things:CorrectHorseBattery said:No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
I passionately believe there is a majority in the country for EEA
1 We do not have a system of government by opinion poll.
2 All you need to do is win a GE for your passionate belief and you'll be fine.
We can discuss FPTP all you like - but the reality is that the majority of Brits are not behind Johnson's Brexit plan. YouGov is simply confirming that.0 -
But not a majority.Philip_Thompson said:
Whether YouGov is correct or not is irrelevant.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Thank you for confirming that no, Johnson did not get over 50% of the vote and so YouGov is correct.Philip_Thompson said:
The Government got 36% more votes than its next closest competitor.CorrectHorseBattery said:44% of the vote is not a majority and YouGov finds the majority don't want No Deal. The two match, this isn't controversial
What YouGov says is immaterial. We had the election already.
The country, by millions of votes, by 36% more votes than the next nearest rival, by a landslide I would say . . . backed this government.
The rest is fluff until the next election.
Less than 50% = not a majority.
Thanks for confirming Philip0 -
Hardly surprising when one works out that those 20,000 jobs come at a cost of around £5 million a job.CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
This is absolutely right. It's why forcing Johnson into an earlier GE on a No Deal platform is one of the (many) better 'alternative history' courses of action that the opposition forces could and should have taken. Such a GE would have been close.CorrectHorseBattery said:No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
2 -
The Tory Party is now UKIP-lite.SouthamObserver said:There has been a lot of talk about Labour facing a dangerous and uncertain future as a political party. That has tended to obscure the fact that, to all intents and purposes, the Conservative and Unionist party no longer exists.
0 -
"Less fortunate"? Like Brexit was bad luck?MarqueeMark said:
You never have.Beibheirli_C said:On Topic:
Since we cannot trust anything the Govt says - since we have no idea what is posturing and what is actual intention - then all we can do is let it play out until we get to 1st Jan 2021. After that, the reality of Brexit will be there for all to see. Only then can we really judge.
I expect there to be a loud burst of jingoist rah-rah on New Year's Eve followed by a wake up call over the first few weeks.
I am not expecting it to be pleasant.
But you seem rather more rattled than when you were going rah-rah, waving your Irish passport in the faces of those less fortunate....
Those you support manufactured this f*ck-up to save the Tory Party from Farage. I did not bother getting the passport until the Brexiteers rubbed my nose in the sh*t they made and told me to suck it up because they won.
1 -
Just imagine the crap you would get from someone with degrees in Chemical Engineering and PPE...FrancisUrquhart said:
Prof Peston, screechy narrative, surely not.....expert on everything from chemical engineering to macro-economics.Anabobazina said:
Hmm, rather runs against Peston and screechy narrative, doesn't it?Malmesbury said:
The real answer will come when the case rates rise to the 2000 a day rate the ONS was seeing on the 25 August - in England.moonshine said:
One assumes these increases are driven by travellers returning from mainland Europe before schools restart (lots of bosses also gave permission to WFH from overseas until end of August).RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
That graph Peston includes is ridiculous and overtly provocative because it ignores the positivity rate and hence gives no indication of overall infection levels. In March the true number must have been something like 150-200k a day.
And yet the positivity rate now is still very low, under 1%. So how many cases are we really missing now? And perhaps the Track N Trace is actually doing the job and picking up traveller related clusters?
Either :
- The ONS was wrong
- There was truly massive change in the community infection rate after that date
- Or the case rate rise will stop.
for reference -
0 -
Although interesting to hear @Foxy say that his colleagues were told to go to a centre 110 miles away.IanB2 said:I ordered my home virus test last Wednesday, received it Friday lunchtime and booked a Saturday collection that afternoon, did the test Saturday morning, had it collected Saturday lunchtime, and got an SMS with my negative result just now.
We do appear to have got our act together on testing.1 -
.
You sitting in the new Cummings control centre ?RochdalePioneers said:Afternoon all. Talking to you all as the middle window on my new ultrawide monitor, with two other windows either side. There is literally more space on this monitor than I know what to do with! So much better than the monitor plus laptop screen I had before.
0 -
In the explicitly not legally binding political declaration?Rexel56 said:
Seems odd then that “geographic proximity” was explicitly written into the political declaration as a factor...Philip_Thompson said:
Geography is irrelevant, that is why.williamglenn said:
I see your problem. You think a Canada-style deal will make our relationship with the EU only as significant to us as Canada's relationship with the EU is to Canada and we won't have to think about it very much anymore. You're ignoring scale and geography.Philip_Thompson said:
Good. Maybe they can knock some heads together win von der Leyen and Barnier and the EU can accept the UK's entirely reasonable proposals: have fish settled like Norway, have state aid settled like Canada.Scott_xP said:
Then we can put all this behind us and move on with our lives.
Yes it is mentioned as a reason there should be an LPF.
Canada has an LPF.
Therefore its not relevant as a difference.0 -
And if that involves breaking manifesto commitments and promises, so be it.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
0 -
The Tory party has always adapted and adopted the best bits of other parties.CorrectHorseBattery said:
The Tory Party is now UKIP-lite.SouthamObserver said:There has been a lot of talk about Labour facing a dangerous and uncertain future as a political party. That has tended to obscure the fact that, to all intents and purposes, the Conservative and Unionist party no longer exists.
0 -
There is nothing good about UKIPPhilip_Thompson said:
The Tory party has always adapted and adopted the best bits of other parties.CorrectHorseBattery said:
The Tory Party is now UKIP-lite.SouthamObserver said:There has been a lot of talk about Labour facing a dangerous and uncertain future as a political party. That has tended to obscure the fact that, to all intents and purposes, the Conservative and Unionist party no longer exists.
0 -
I challenge that. I don't see anything lite about the Tory Party's UKIPityCorrectHorseBattery said:
The Tory Party is now UKIP-lite.SouthamObserver said:There has been a lot of talk about Labour facing a dangerous and uncertain future as a political party. That has tended to obscure the fact that, to all intents and purposes, the Conservative and Unionist party no longer exists.
0 -
No, I didn’t write that did I?alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.
Moronic post.0 -
If you say you don't have access to a car (true as mine was in the garage) they send it through the post and collect for freeTOPPING said:
Although interesting to hear @Foxy say that his colleagues were told to go to a centre 110 miles away.IanB2 said:I ordered my home virus test last Wednesday, received it Friday lunchtime and booked a Saturday collection that afternoon, did the test Saturday morning, had it collected Saturday lunchtime, and got an SMS with my negative result just now.
We do appear to have got our act together on testing.1 -
I was trying to be kindFF43 said:
I challenge that. I don't see anything lite about the Tory Party's UKIPityCorrectHorseBattery said:
The Tory Party is now UKIP-lite.SouthamObserver said:There has been a lot of talk about Labour facing a dangerous and uncertain future as a political party. That has tended to obscure the fact that, to all intents and purposes, the Conservative and Unionist party no longer exists.
0 -
I'd have been worried about other people's relatives tooRichard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.0 -
Hence the Tories are not UKIP, they just nicked any sensible policies UKIP had. As they have brazenly done with other parties for hundreds of years.CorrectHorseBattery said:
There is nothing good about UKIPPhilip_Thompson said:
The Tory party has always adapted and adopted the best bits of other parties.CorrectHorseBattery said:
The Tory Party is now UKIP-lite.SouthamObserver said:There has been a lot of talk about Labour facing a dangerous and uncertain future as a political party. That has tended to obscure the fact that, to all intents and purposes, the Conservative and Unionist party no longer exists.
1 -
Trouble is that any electoral system will still end up with someone in power who got less than 50% of the popular vote.OldKingCole said:
Agree about Iraq. Actually it's our electoral system that results in what the late Lord Hailsham called 'elective dictatorship'!Richard_Tyndall said:
Sadly yes. Just as many of us had to stand and watch as Tony Blair killed tens of thousands of innocent people in our name in Iraq. It sucks but it is the system. And as Churchill said it is the worst form of Government apart from all the others.OldKingCole said:
So we must just stand and watch our country's good name being dragged through the mud by someone for whom honesty is a rather attractive flower and not both a public as well as private virtue.Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.1 -
What we are asking the young to do is give up a large part of the prime of their lives. Imagine being 18 in March 2020. What have you been able to do?Richard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.0 -
UKIP never had any sensible policiesPhilip_Thompson said:
Hence the Tories are not UKIP, they just nicked any sensible policies UKIP had. As they have brazenly done with other parties for hundreds of years.CorrectHorseBattery said:
There is nothing good about UKIPPhilip_Thompson said:
The Tory party has always adapted and adopted the best bits of other parties.CorrectHorseBattery said:
The Tory Party is now UKIP-lite.SouthamObserver said:There has been a lot of talk about Labour facing a dangerous and uncertain future as a political party. That has tended to obscure the fact that, to all intents and purposes, the Conservative and Unionist party no longer exists.
0 -
True, although students away from home may rationalise that one away as an impossibility.Richard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.0 -
Like Blair implementing tuition fees against his own manifesto?SouthamObserver said:
And if that involves breaking manifesto commitments and promises, so be it.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Or like Blair having a manifesto policy to hold a referendum on the EU Constitution then binning that and rebranding it the Lisbon Treaty?
That kind of thing? How horrific.1 -
What a nasty little remark.alterego said:Ms Cyclefree obviously struggles to fill her day
The header took me an hour to write.
At the moment I am largely bedridden because I am recuperating from a serious and very nasty infection, which required hospital treatment. So, yes, I am limited in what I can do.
But I will get better.
You, on the other hand ......9 -
I think it was a great article Cyclefree, ignore the idiotsCyclefree said:
What a nasty little remark.alterego said:Ms Cyclefree obviously struggles to fill her day
The header took me an hour to write.
At the moment I am largely bedridden because I am recuperating from a serious and very nasty infection, which required hospital treatment. So, yes, I am limited in what I can do.
But I will get better.
You, on the other hand ......6 -
Everyone over 70 is not a tiny minority of the population.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.
And the estimated 5% of everyone who gets it, who end up with long term health consequences ?0 -
Get well soon.Cyclefree said:
What a nasty little remark.alterego said:Ms Cyclefree obviously struggles to fill her day
The header took me an hour to write.
At the moment I am largely bedridden because I am recuperating from a serious and very nasty infection, which required hospital treatment. So, yes, I am limited in what I can do.
But I will get better.
You, on the other hand ......6 -
Funny because I distinctly remember you 'rubbing our noses' in the fact you could get an Irish passport well before the referendum. As it happens I could have got an Irish passport as well. Still could. I wouldn't because even if I thought Brexit were going to be a disaster - which I don't - I also don't believe in running away when things get a little difficult.Beibheirli_C said:
"Less fortunate"? Like Brexit was bad luck?MarqueeMark said:
You never have.Beibheirli_C said:On Topic:
Since we cannot trust anything the Govt says - since we have no idea what is posturing and what is actual intention - then all we can do is let it play out until we get to 1st Jan 2021. After that, the reality of Brexit will be there for all to see. Only then can we really judge.
I expect there to be a loud burst of jingoist rah-rah on New Year's Eve followed by a wake up call over the first few weeks.
I am not expecting it to be pleasant.
But you seem rather more rattled than when you were going rah-rah, waving your Irish passport in the faces of those less fortunate....
Those you support manufactured this f*ck-up to save the Tory Party from Farage. I did not bother getting the passport until the Brexiteers rubbed my nose in the sh*t they made and told me to suck it up because they won.1 -
WhaI don't understand is why none of the walking test centres in Leicester didn't show, as we have several. The website simply said no walk in sites within range. Perhaps a software glitch, but not terribly helpful.IanB2 said:
If you say you don't have access to a car (true as mine was in the garage) they send it through the post and collect for freeTOPPING said:
Although interesting to hear @Foxy say that his colleagues were told to go to a centre 110 miles away.IanB2 said:I ordered my home virus test last Wednesday, received it Friday lunchtime and booked a Saturday collection that afternoon, did the test Saturday morning, had it collected Saturday lunchtime, and got an SMS with my negative result just now.
We do appear to have got our act together on testing.0 -
Logic would suggest that anybody who gets into contact with Covid early in their holiday (like, at the airport going out) is potentially going to be at their most infectious by the time they again have their return through those same airports.FrancisUrquhart said:
Has any research been done about risk at airports? Naively they seem a perfect vector for transmission, 1000s of people all together from all over the world, aircon, plus you have to sit there for several hours.MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
For now, I'll stick to the much smaller risk faced by visiting English towns and villages. Although, we have had small outbreaks in Devon in unlikely spots such as Dartington.
0 -
I don't dispute the poll - it is just the pretence that it has any significance yo seem unable to grasp - despite numerous people telling you.CorrectHorseBattery said:
In an actual election, Johnson did not get majority support for No Deal.felix said:
2 things:CorrectHorseBattery said:No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
I passionately believe there is a majority in the country for EEA
1 We do not have a system of government by opinion poll.
2 All you need to do is win a GE for your passionate belief and you'll be fine.
We can discuss FPTP all you like - but the reality is that the majority of Brits are not behind Johnson's Brexit plan. YouGov is simply confirming that.1 -
Inherit?NerysHughes said:
What we are asking the young to do is give up a large part of the prime of their lives. Imagine being 18 in March 2020. What have you been able to do?Richard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.
4 -
All the news does is just pick up one or two isolated cases. We are doing between 150,000-200,000 tests each day which is a fantastic achievement.IanB2 said:I ordered my home virus test last Wednesday, received it Friday lunchtime and booked a Saturday collection that afternoon, did the test Saturday morning, had it collected Saturday lunchtime, and got an SMS with my negative result just now.
We do appear to have got our act together on testing.0 -
Fully booked?Foxy said:
WhaI don't understand is why none of the walking test centres in Leicester didn't show, as we have several. The website simply said no walk in sites within range. Perhaps a software glitch, but not terribly helpful.IanB2 said:
If you say you don't have access to a car (true as mine was in the garage) they send it through the post and collect for freeTOPPING said:
Although interesting to hear @Foxy say that his colleagues were told to go to a centre 110 miles away.IanB2 said:I ordered my home virus test last Wednesday, received it Friday lunchtime and booked a Saturday collection that afternoon, did the test Saturday morning, had it collected Saturday lunchtime, and got an SMS with my negative result just now.
We do appear to have got our act together on testing.0 -
My point, which you ignored, is that if a YouGov poll is a more accurate reflection of public opinion than a General Election, as you seem to think, let's not bother with GEs any more. Simples.CorrectHorseBattery said:
When did Johnson get 50% of the vote in an election?alterego said:
More reliable than a vote by the electorate? Let's do away with elections and just have a YouGov poll. Save some money too.CorrectHorseBattery said:
YouGov is a reliable poster, I trust their findingsalterego said:
It's possibly a better opinion poll than yours?CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan1 -
Good header @Cyclefree. We do seem to be losing any last vestige of the positively correlated relationship one would like to imagine exists between what our government and Prime Minister say about a subject and what is the truth pertaining to said subject. And the most worrying thing of all is that we don't seem to care. Cos it's "Boris" and he's such a boyo.2
-
If only you were right.CorrectHorseBattery said:No Deal Brexit unites the Remain base and divides the Leave base.
I passionately believe there is a majority in the country for EEA
Full-frontal hard Brexit is what the great unwashed now believe they voted for. Take that Johnny Foreigner!2 -
its supposed to show the next 5 days.RobD said:
Fully booked?Foxy said:
WhaI don't understand is why none of the walking test centres in Leicester didn't show, as we have several. The website simply said no walk in sites within range. Perhaps a software glitch, but not terribly helpful.IanB2 said:
If you say you don't have access to a car (true as mine was in the garage) they send it through the post and collect for freeTOPPING said:
Although interesting to hear @Foxy say that his colleagues were told to go to a centre 110 miles away.IanB2 said:I ordered my home virus test last Wednesday, received it Friday lunchtime and booked a Saturday collection that afternoon, did the test Saturday morning, had it collected Saturday lunchtime, and got an SMS with my negative result just now.
We do appear to have got our act together on testing.
If fully booked, and such low positives, you have to question if we are testing the right people.0 -
So you think the right to have a drink and a party with your friends is more important than the safety of your elderly relatives? What a nasty, selfish idea.NerysHughes said:
What we are asking the young to do is give up a large part of the prime of their lives. Imagine being 18 in March 2020. What have you been able to do?Richard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.0 -
Nasty little person. Get well soon.Cyclefree said:
What a nasty little remark.alterego said:Ms Cyclefree obviously struggles to fill her day
The header took me an hour to write.
At the moment I am largely bedridden because I am recuperating from a serious and very nasty infection, which required hospital treatment. So, yes, I am limited in what I can do.
But I will get better.
You, on the other hand ......2 -
Might still be fully booked?Foxy said:
its supposed to show the next 5 days.RobD said:
Fully booked?Foxy said:
WhaI don't understand is why none of the walking test centres in Leicester didn't show, as we have several. The website simply said no walk in sites within range. Perhaps a software glitch, but not terribly helpful.IanB2 said:
If you say you don't have access to a car (true as mine was in the garage) they send it through the post and collect for freeTOPPING said:
Although interesting to hear @Foxy say that his colleagues were told to go to a centre 110 miles away.IanB2 said:I ordered my home virus test last Wednesday, received it Friday lunchtime and booked a Saturday collection that afternoon, did the test Saturday morning, had it collected Saturday lunchtime, and got an SMS with my negative result just now.
We do appear to have got our act together on testing.0 -
This poster seems to get a kick from being unpleasant and rude.Cyclefree said:
What a nasty little remark.alterego said:Ms Cyclefree obviously struggles to fill her day
The header took me an hour to write.
At the moment I am largely bedridden because I am recuperating from a serious and very nasty infection, which required hospital treatment. So, yes, I am limited in what I can do.
But I will get better.
You, on the other hand ......
Get well soon Cyclefree.2 -
Fake news....Beibheirli_C said:
"Less fortunate"? Like Brexit was bad luck?MarqueeMark said:
You never have.Beibheirli_C said:On Topic:
Since we cannot trust anything the Govt says - since we have no idea what is posturing and what is actual intention - then all we can do is let it play out until we get to 1st Jan 2021. After that, the reality of Brexit will be there for all to see. Only then can we really judge.
I expect there to be a loud burst of jingoist rah-rah on New Year's Eve followed by a wake up call over the first few weeks.
I am not expecting it to be pleasant.
But you seem rather more rattled than when you were going rah-rah, waving your Irish passport in the faces of those less fortunate....
Those you support manufactured this f*ck-up to save the Tory Party from Farage. I did not bother getting the passport until the Brexiteers rubbed my nose in the sh*t they made and told me to suck it up because they won.0 -
So, yep, in your world manifesto commitments mean nothing. It is helpful to know.Philip_Thompson said:
Like Blair implementing tuition fees against his own manifesto?SouthamObserver said:
And if that involves breaking manifesto commitments and promises, so be it.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Or like Blair having a manifesto policy to hold a referendum on the EU Constitution then binning that and rebranding it the Lisbon Treaty?
That kind of thing? How horrific.1 -
If I were 18? I`d say go through a lot of tissues.NerysHughes said:
What we are asking the young to do is give up a large part of the prime of their lives. Imagine being 18 in March 2020. What have you been able to do?Richard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.2 -
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.Anabobazina said:
No, I didn’t write that did I?alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.
Moronic post.0 -
Not if they do not have absolute power. But in practce that means reforming the voting system. Good idea, of course.Richard_Tyndall said:
Trouble is that any electoral system will still end up with someone in power who got less than 50% of the popular vote.OldKingCole said:
Agree about Iraq. Actually it's our electoral system that results in what the late Lord Hailsham called 'elective dictatorship'!Richard_Tyndall said:
Sadly yes. Just as many of us had to stand and watch as Tony Blair killed tens of thousands of innocent people in our name in Iraq. It sucks but it is the system. And as Churchill said it is the worst form of Government apart from all the others.OldKingCole said:
So we must just stand and watch our country's good name being dragged through the mud by someone for whom honesty is a rather attractive flower and not both a public as well as private virtue.Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.0 -
I did not say it was right, Im just saying we have asked young people to give up a big part of their lives, which by and large they have done which is why deaths are now so low.Richard_Tyndall said:
So you think the right to have a drink and a party with your friends is more important than the safety of your elderly relatives? What a nasty, selfish idea.NerysHughes said:
What we are asking the young to do is give up a large part of the prime of their lives. Imagine being 18 in March 2020. What have you been able to do?Richard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.0 -
One of the things that's really interesting about CV-19 is it making very obvious a lot of human cognitive biases.Nigelb said:
Everyone over 70 is not a tiny minority of the population.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.
And the estimated 5% of everyone who gets it, who end up with long term health consequences ?
There is a dramatic difference in how people feel about CV-19, and the measures that need to be in place to stop it, between those who have seen it first hand, and those who don't know anyone who've had it. Because people are being asked to make sacrifices (i.e. change their behaviour), and that is something they do not want to do, they have internal very high barriers for being persuaded.
People really want to believe things that mean they don't need to be more careful. Nobody wants to wear masks in shops, and therefore people are predisposed to believe the idea that they are a vector for disease transmission (despite reams of empirical evidence to the contrary).
Because we'd all like to get back to normal, it's much more comforting to believe that this isn't real, and it's all a conspiracy by Bill Gates and his mates.2 -
Very handyStocky said:
If I were 18? I`d say go through a lot of tissues.NerysHughes said:
What we are asking the young to do is give up a large part of the prime of their lives. Imagine being 18 in March 2020. What have you been able to do?Richard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.1 -
No, they mean something.SouthamObserver said:
So, yep, in your world manifesto commitments mean nothing. It is helpful to know.Philip_Thompson said:
Like Blair implementing tuition fees against his own manifesto?SouthamObserver said:
And if that involves breaking manifesto commitments and promises, so be it.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Or like Blair having a manifesto policy to hold a referendum on the EU Constitution then binning that and rebranding it the Lisbon Treaty?
That kind of thing? How horrific.
They're not binding, but they definitely mean something.0 -
Er, act responsibly by your fellow citizens?NerysHughes said:
What we are asking the young to do is give up a large part of the prime of their lives. Imagine being 18 in March 2020. What have you been able to do?Richard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.
Welcome to the rest of your lives, kids.
Alternatively, drink a quart of bourbon, put on the bald tyres - and go speeding in a thunderstorm.0 -
Indeed. When people are unable to contribute anything that is useful or kind and in that case don't know to keep quiet, anything they do say just damns themselves.Cyclefree said:
What a nasty little remark.alterego said:Ms Cyclefree obviously struggles to fill her day
The header took me an hour to write.
At the moment I am largely bedridden because I am recuperating from a serious and very nasty infection, which required hospital treatment. So, yes, I am limited in what I can do.
But I will get better.
You, on the other hand ......
I like my thoughts to be provoked, which you do admirably.1 -
Voting reforms don't mean whoever gets in power got 50% of the vote.ClippP said:
Not if they do not have absolute power. But in practce that means reforming the voting system. Good idea, of course.Richard_Tyndall said:
Trouble is that any electoral system will still end up with someone in power who got less than 50% of the popular vote.OldKingCole said:
Agree about Iraq. Actually it's our electoral system that results in what the late Lord Hailsham called 'elective dictatorship'!Richard_Tyndall said:
Sadly yes. Just as many of us had to stand and watch as Tony Blair killed tens of thousands of innocent people in our name in Iraq. It sucks but it is the system. And as Churchill said it is the worst form of Government apart from all the others.OldKingCole said:
So we must just stand and watch our country's good name being dragged through the mud by someone for whom honesty is a rather attractive flower and not both a public as well as private virtue.Philip_Thompson said:
Majority of the vote doesn't matter.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Did he get a majority of the vote in 2019? No.Philip_Thompson said:
They are. "There is only one poll that matters".CorrectHorseBattery said:
You were acting yesterday like Brits were behind Johnson and his Brexit planPhilip_Thompson said:
So only two to one?Scott_xP said:
Given the way people act with such hysteria over No Deal you'd think it'd be a landslide the other way not just two to one.
Johnson won the polls that mattered (the referendum and the election), now he needs to do whatever he thinks is best, subject to Parliamentary approval where appropriate - then be judged or damned in four years time on the results of that.
Therefore you have no ability to say he has majority support for his Brexit plan
He got million more votes than any alternative. Therefore Britain has backed him.0 -
You do begin to wonder if the Russian goons wouldn't be better, you know, using bullets?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-540613700 -
Thinking out loud here:Richard_Tyndall said:
Or your own parents and grandparents.ukpaul said:
Building a nation of granny/grandad killers. I think a fair number won't care but surely that realisation is going to stop reckless behaviour in schools, universities, clubs, parties? Would I have cared when I was young? Actually, I'm not sure, especially if peer pressure was affecting group dynamics. Doing dangerous stupid stuff is par for the course, just that now that the consequences hit not you with a killer hangover and no clothes but someone you've probably never met struggling to breathe and with scarred lungs/heart.alterego said:
So that's okay then? Let's all party and fuck those poor sods who die as a consequence.Anabobazina said:
The risks from Covid are minuscule for most people though, so it's more people being emboldened to the reality rather than a "denial of the risks".MarqueeMark said:
Maybe airports are festering plague pits. Maybe Johnny Foreigner has far greater use of aircon than if staying at home.Pulpstar said:
People do seem particularly able to pick it up on foreign trips even if the prevalence is similiar in their holiday country. I guess interactions are upped compared to staying at home.FrancisUrquhart said:
Its seems half (I am obviously being slightly hyperbolic) the premier league footballers have it on return from their holidays and only being picked up because they are all being tested e.g. two Man City players today.Anabobazina said:
How many of those cases are sick?RobD said:
Cases really picking up now. I wonder why this wasn't seen in the ONS surveys. Maybe it's a case of more intense but localised clusters, which I would guess are more difficult to pick up via random sampling.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Letting everybody go on a foreign summer holiday in August seems a particular idiotic move, along with the ever changing (it has just changed again) series of "air-bridge" countries.
Or maybe too many people get pissed on holiday and enter a "I don't give a shit" phase of denial about the risks?
Covid-19 just LOVES people consuming alcohol.
Yes, I know the risks to some groups are very high – but these people are a tiny minority of the population.
The problem is if someone not in a risk group, parties on down, contracts Covid (asymptomatically), goes to work in Asda the following day and infects a colleague who then visits their grandparents and infects them.
Currently the colleague can go to see their grandparents and must socially distance from them.
In lockdown your colleague can't go to see their grandparents.
So theoretically, someone behaving irresponsibly doesn't prevent their colleague from going to see their grandparents as the latter must socially distance from them anyway.
So then the risk is that they give a care worker the virus on the bus. But isn't social distancing in place on public transport?
So actually, if everyone follows the rules/guidance/regulations/law people not in a risk group can go out and party.
But then of course if they are reckless then they are unlikely to be careful of other people/socially distance.
What have I missed?0
This discussion has been closed.