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  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_xP said:
    I believe Carlotta had something to say about how shit the SNP was when this happened after schools went back in Scotland.
  • Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Look at the US state of Georgia's graphs. Their deaths fell even as cases exploded in their second wave
    If I recall, so far nowhere where there cases have started going up steeply have seen a big increase in hospital admissions and so on.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    That focus group finding of suburban women has a ring of the 1992 GE election for me.

    Quietly back the incubant out of fear. 1992 it was fear of tax. 2020 POTUS fear of riots in their backyard.

    There was a 2.5% swing to Labour in 92, that'd see Trump out.
  • Disgraceful by the Tories.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    For all those good PBers laying Trump at the moment:

    https://twitter.com/davidsiders/status/1302967065603522561

    That quote is proceeded by saying it was unclear which way this would push them.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    What’s the justification behind this Grenfell thing?
  • Disgraceful by the Tories.

    Can you explain the details please?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    What’s the justification behind this Grenfell thing?

    Phil will be along to spin it shortly...
  • What’s the justification behind this Grenfell thing?

    What Grenfell thing? There's nothing about it on the BBC.

    Most of these "the Tories voted against this" Tweets end up being anti-Ronseal nonsense.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    OK so. I selected “high temperature” and got through to the booking screen.

    There’s no home test kits available, and no drive-through or walk-through appointments available in the next 2 weeks within 100 miles.

    I bet @Philip_Thompson still would describe this as “fantastic” or “world-beating” or something.

    I don’t know what to do.

    OK so. I selected “high temperature” and got through to the booking screen.

    There’s no home test kits available, and no drive-through or walk-through appointments available in the next 2 weeks within 100 miles.

    I bet @Philip_Thompson still would describe this as “fantastic” or “world-beating” or something.

    I don’t know what to do.

    Dreadful. Hope you find some solution.
    Without wishing to make it about me...I live close to you. Have a 16 year old at school and no one in our household drives.
    What do we do if we show symptoms?
    I'll be getting on a train for 100 miles with a possible case?
    World beating.
    Other nations must be green with envy.
  • The deal must be rewritten, then it's No Deal this week surely
  • Pulpstar said:

    That focus group finding of suburban women has a ring of the 1992 GE election for me.

    Quietly back the incubant out of fear. 1992 it was fear of tax. 2020 POTUS fear of riots in their backyard.

    There was a 2.5% swing to Labour in 92, that'd see Trump out.
    Hope so.
  • What’s the justification behind this Grenfell thing?

    What Grenfell thing? There's nothing about it on the BBC.

    Most of these "the Tories voted against this" Tweets end up being anti-Ronseal nonsense.
    CHB knows all about it as he's described the Tories voting as disgraceful.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    For all those good PBers laying Trump at the moment:

    https://twitter.com/davidsiders/status/1302967065603522561

    All in all that article is about 700 times less definitive than the pull quote.

    The summary is "even though there is zero polling shift and in fact Biden is leading on law and Order in the polling we pundits put so much ink into saying that law and Order would win it for Trump we are now searching for any scrap of something to show we are not idiots"
  • The deal must be rewritten, then it's No Deal this week surely

    I'm genuinely beginning to think the best thing to do is to just call off the talks and say we'll pick them back up in a year's time and go to WTO. Enough of this nonsense already.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited September 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Well. Maybe this isn't just a short-term position after all. The pound will take another walloping again.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Right so they've voted against a Labour amendment, not Grenfell, makes sense. I wonder what the details of the amendment and the bill were? There's nothing at all I can see about it even on the BBC's Politics webpage.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited September 2020

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



  • What’s the justification behind this Grenfell thing?

    What Grenfell thing? There's nothing about it on the BBC.

    Most of these "the Tories voted against this" Tweets end up being anti-Ronseal nonsense.
    https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/828
    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0121/amend/fire_daily_rep_0904.pdf

    “Duties of owner or manager
    The relevant authority must by regulations amend the Regulatory Reform (Fire
    Safety) Order 2005 (SI 2005/1541) to require an owner or a manager of any
    building which contains two or more sets of domestic premises to—
    (a) share information with their local Fire and Rescue Service in respect of
    each building for which an owner or manager is responsible about the
    design of its external walls and details of the materials of which those
    external walls are constructed;
    (b) in respect of any building for which an owner or manager is responsible
    which contains separate flats, undertake regular inspections of individual
    flat entrance doors;
    (c) in respect of any building for which an owner or manager is responsible
    which contains separate flats, undertake regular inspections of lifts and
    report the results to their local Fire and Rescue Service; and
    2 Consideration of Bill (Report Stage): 7 September 2020
    Fire Safety Bill, continued
    (d) share evacuation and fire safety instructions with residents of the
    building.”
    Member’s explanatory statement
    This new clause would place various requirements on building owners or managers, and would
    implement the recommendations made in the Grenfell Tower Inquiry Phase One Report.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Well. Maybe this isn't just a short-term position after all.

    The pound will take another hit again.
    It's not "unbelievable" though. Johnson is a lying charlatan who will say whatever works for the moment in hand.
  • Wish I'd known about this site before. It's great fun, notwithstanding the bad temper.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Right so they've voted against a Labour amendment, not Grenfell, makes sense. I wonder what the details of the amendment and the bill were?

    implement the recommendations made in the Grenfell Tower Inquiry Phase One Report

    Just once, maybe, read before posting...
  • What’s the justification behind this Grenfell thing?

    What Grenfell thing? There's nothing about it on the BBC.

    Most of these "the Tories voted against this" Tweets end up being anti-Ronseal nonsense.
    https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/828
    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0121/amend/fire_daily_rep_0904.pdf

    “Duties of owner or manager
    The relevant authority must by regulations amend the Regulatory Reform (Fire
    Safety) Order 2005 (SI 2005/1541) to require an owner or a manager of any
    building which contains two or more sets of domestic premises to—
    (a) share information with their local Fire and Rescue Service in respect of
    each building for which an owner or manager is responsible about the
    design of its external walls and details of the materials of which those
    external walls are constructed;
    (b) in respect of any building for which an owner or manager is responsible
    which contains separate flats, undertake regular inspections of individual
    flat entrance doors;
    (c) in respect of any building for which an owner or manager is responsible
    which contains separate flats, undertake regular inspections of lifts and
    report the results to their local Fire and Rescue Service; and
    2 Consideration of Bill (Report Stage): 7 September 2020
    Fire Safety Bill, continued
    (d) share evacuation and fire safety instructions with residents of the
    building.”
    Member’s explanatory statement
    This new clause would place various requirements on building owners or managers, and would
    implement the recommendations made in the Grenfell Tower Inquiry Phase One Report.
    Sounds relatively non controversial apart from the limit of two domestic premises - I'd have thought something like 5 or more would be suitable.
  • Wish I'd known about this site before. It's great fun, notwithstanding the bad temper.

    You're very welcome, always nice to see a new member
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Alistair said:

    For all those good PBers laying Trump at the moment:

    https://twitter.com/davidsiders/status/1302967065603522561

    All in all that article is about 700 times less definitive than the pull quote.

    The summary is "even though there is zero polling shift and in fact Biden is leading on law and Order in the polling we pundits put so much ink into saying that law and Order would win it for Trump we are now searching for any scrap of something to show we are not idiots"
    One of the strategists described a focus group in which white, college-educated women reacted to the protests by discussing their own property values and, in one woman’s case, her family’s mortgage.

    Sounds like the Bree Van de Kamp pearls and NRA card vote. Always solid GOP.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Right so they've voted against a Labour amendment, not Grenfell, makes sense. I wonder what the details of the amendment and the bill were?

    implement the recommendations made in the Grenfell Tower Inquiry Phase One Report

    Just once, maybe, read before posting...
    I did read. "implement the recommendations" is spin, not the wording of the amendment that would be made law.

    I see from the voting the SNP abstained despite Plaid Cymru voting. Not sure if its because they're viewing it as an English and Welsh matter, or because they didn't agree with it either?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Wish I'd known about this site before. It's great fun, notwithstanding the bad temper.

    It's the only place to be on election night.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    Wish I'd known about this site before. It's great fun, notwithstanding the bad temper.

    You really haven't seen bad temper on here...
    And yes it is great fun. Sometimes when it is bad tempered too.
    And it is often genuinely educational.
    Just don't bother trying to change anyone's mind.
    Welcome and stick around.
  • Wish I'd known about this site before. It's great fun, notwithstanding the bad temper.

    You're very welcome, always nice to see a new member
    Thank you. I've got a day job so can't be on here as much as I'd like. After skimming a few threads in the last week or so some posters appear to spend every waking hour here, and then some.
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
  • I see Owen Jones is trying to get somebody cancelled from Twitter again.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Scott_xP said:

    This is great news for BoZo

    The testing shitshow, or the back to school shitshow, means that Starmer probably won't ask him about the Brexit shitshow at PMQs...

    There isn't a table big enough for all these dead cats.
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    If at or after 9am tomorrow you can get a same day or next day appointment then that's one thing.

    If at or after 9am tomorrow you can get an appointment only for the 22nd that's something else.
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    If you dont get a test result back with a couple of days of first symptoms its pretty pointless, we should be aiming to get all test results back within 24 hours or less.

    The only tests that should be able to be booked 2 weeks in advance are regular testing in care homes or key workers - if you have symptoms now you should not be able to book that far in advance as you would be blocking capacity for no gain.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Look at the US state of Georgia's graphs. Their deaths fell even as cases exploded in their second wave
    If I recall, so far nowhere where there cases have started going up steeply have seen a big increase in hospital admissions and so on.

    The Georgia deaths came, and they eclipsed the first wave. Second peak twice as high as the first.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Look at the US state of Georgia's graphs. Their deaths fell even as cases exploded in their second wave
    If I recall, so far nowhere where there cases have started going up steeply have seen a big increase in hospital admissions and so on.

    The Georgia deaths came, and they eclipsed the first wave. Second peak twice as high as the first.

    Yes. People take a while to die.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited September 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Either Cummings' game theory in a first phase, or we're heading for no deal.
  • If we're attacking the deal we already signed we've got no hope of a new one.

    This is just setting the stage for a No Deal announcement
  • Wish I'd known about this site before. It's great fun, notwithstanding the bad temper.

    You're very welcome, always nice to see a new member
    Thank you. I've got a day job so can't be on here as much as I'd like. After skimming a few threads in the last week or so some posters appear to spend every waking hour here, and then some.
    That will be the pre-schoolers and the pensioners ...

    :D:D:D
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
    Are we saying that a million plus tests a week which is what is happening now is not enough ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,109
    edited September 2020
    Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.
  • If we're attacking the deal we already signed we've got no hope of a new one.

    This is just setting the stage for a No Deal announcement

    It could just be playing hardball.

    We won't know for another six weeks.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Either Cummings' game theory in a first phase, or we're heading for no deal.

    This is BoZo's oven ready deal that he was lauded for signing.

    Now he says it's shit.

    And still the fanbois cheer...
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
    Maybe its Russian bots booking and not turning up! Its not a pleasant experience (not painful but not pleasant) so dont know why people would just book for a giggle?
  • Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/LabourSJ/status/1303055625321164802

    Why are people getting worked up about this? It is just the govt tearing up another promise.

    Situation normal........
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
    More likely, the return to school/work/whatever has massively increased the demand on the system (didn't that happen in Scotland, where schools went back a couple of weeks ago?)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    If we're attacking the deal we already signed we've got no hope of a new one.

    This is just setting the stage for a No Deal announcement

    The Deal trumpeted to a GE landslide?
    That one?
  • The usual suspects will be on here telling us this is all false and it is really because of planning laws and the lack of available land so we should just let the builders do what they want. It's bloody infuriating.
    Of course, this is a symptom of a flawed planning system.

    The problem is that because of how insane our planning system is that having a plot of land with consent is worth a lot more than a plot of land. Actually then building the property adds value too, but the "value" of simply achieving consent is ridiculously overvalued.

    Which means that there exist too many companies who make profit simply from getting land, getting consent then looking to flip it on with consent. No need to actually do any hard work like actually building a building on the site.

    In a functional property market these companies would be considered parasites and not valuable. Because of our screwed up planning system, these companies serve a purpose, which is inane they really ought not to exist at all.

    If planning were quick, simple and easy to get then land with consent would not be worth much if any more than land on it own which means that sitting on banks of land with consent would be totally pointless.
    Quick and easy means removing the last vestiges of protection for both heritage and environment. We already have catastrophic habitat loss and the new planning regime will just make that all the worse.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    The capacity is not mobile enough, it can't be rapidly expanded in problem areas.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,719
    edited September 2020

    The fairly transparent attempt to shift the blame for Brexit to Labour MP's is one of PB's eccentricities - just an inevitable quirk of the preponderance of right-leaning views on here, really.

    The interesting giveaway is that the PB Brexiteers are seeking who to blame for Brexit.

    You don't search for blame when heading for sunlight uplands, just when going down the pan.
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
    Are we saying that a million plus tests a week which is what is happening now is not enough ?
    When the cold and flu season hits I think we will need closer to a million a day.
  • Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
  • If we're attacking the deal we already signed we've got no hope of a new one.

    This is just setting the stage for a No Deal announcement

    It could just be playing hardball.

    We won't know for another six weeks.
    Economic effects of pound-euro parity could come before that, though - at a moment when the furlough scheme ends.
  • Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Something odd is going on. IIRC a poster on here earlier today was saying how efficiently their test had been dealt with in the last few days, and from what I've gleaned that poster is no great admirer of the government. Can't remember the poster's name though.
  • Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
    We should remember that the uk tests more than any other European country
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2020

    Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
    Week before Scottish schools went back approx 550 tests of 5-11 year olds in Scotland

    Week ending 30th August, 17,000 tests of 5-11 year olds.
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
    Are we saying that a million plus tests a week which is what is happening now is not enough ?
    When the cold and flu season hits I think we will need closer to a million a day.
    Flu season may not be as bad as normal, what with all that hand washing, sanitiser and social distancing.
  • Scott_xP said:
    It’s the first time I’ve seen the Yorkshire post quoted
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2020

    The usual suspects will be on here telling us this is all false and it is really because of planning laws and the lack of available land so we should just let the builders do what they want. It's bloody infuriating.
    Of course, this is a symptom of a flawed planning system.

    The problem is that because of how insane our planning system is that having a plot of land with consent is worth a lot more than a plot of land. Actually then building the property adds value too, but the "value" of simply achieving consent is ridiculously overvalued.

    Which means that there exist too many companies who make profit simply from getting land, getting consent then looking to flip it on with consent. No need to actually do any hard work like actually building a building on the site.

    In a functional property market these companies would be considered parasites and not valuable. Because of our screwed up planning system, these companies serve a purpose, which is inane they really ought not to exist at all.

    If planning were quick, simple and easy to get then land with consent would not be worth much if any more than land on it own which means that sitting on banks of land with consent would be totally pointless.
    Quick and easy means removing the last vestiges of protection for both heritage and environment. We already have catastrophic habitat loss and the new planning regime will just make that all the worse.
    No, not necessarily the case at all - though absolutely I do think that we "protect" too many areas, but that is a separate debate.

    Japanese style zonal planning consent is much, much better: essentially local areas give zoning indications of green areas where consent is virtually automatic, amber where its more complicated and red where it is prevented. Then rather than a developer spending years getting planning for an estate . . . or even worse a speculator doing so then looking to flip it on to a developer . . . people can simply get the land they want and build the home they want and that's it.

    If consent in a "green zone" is virtually automatic (subject to planning regulations) then owning land with consent becomes worthless. The land already had consent so getting it or sitting on it is achieving nothing so someone who actually intends to build should get the land rather than a speculator hoping to get consent then flip in for a windfall profit but zero added value.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
    Are we saying that a million plus tests a week which is what is happening now is not enough ?
    When the cold and flu season hits I think we will need closer to a million a day.
    Flu season may not be as bad as normal, what with all that hand washing, sanitiser and social distancing.
    That has been the case in Australia ISTR. Down by 90% apparently.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited September 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    I wonder if "ministers" is Gove, known to be the most anxious about no-deal, as against Cummings and no.10.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Not obvious that tweets like that add much value. Unpleasant and not funny.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315
    Scott_xP said:
    So why did he sign it, win a GE on the back of it and push it through Parliament in record time?

    Maybe he’s only just read it? Or understood it?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,719

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
    Are we saying that a million plus tests a week which is what is happening now is not enough ?
    As we have a very low pick up rate, it is more likely that we are simply not testing the right people.
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
    More likely, the return to school/work/whatever has massively increased the demand on the system (didn't that happen in Scotland, where schools went back a couple of weeks ago?)
    So, little Johnny comes home from school and says he feels hot. Panic. Book a test?
  • Testing numbers have not increased though, in fact they are down slightly.
  • Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
    Perhaps that is it this. When unis go back over the course of this month, going to be some serious strain on the system, as at the best of times "freshers flu" strikes down basically every student.
  • Alistair said:

    Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
    Week before Scottish schools went back approx 550 tests of 5-11 year olds in Scotland

    Week ending 30th August, 17,000 tests of 5-11 year olds.
    Why?

    Is that parents or teachers ordering those tests?

    They can't all have been reporting symptoms can they? Or is this like a back to school version of "Freshers Flu"?
  • Cyclefree said:



    Scott_xP said:
    So why did he sign it, win a GE on the back of it and push it through Parliament in record time?

    Maybe he’s only just read it? Or understood it?
    Ken Clarke did not read the Maastricht treaty. Perhaps Clarke is his inspiration.
  • Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
    Perhaps that is it this. When unis go back over the course of this month, going to be some serious strain on the system, as at the best of times "freshers flu" strikes down basically every student.
    And everyone else who lives in a university town.

    But these cases may well not be corona of course. Most of them wont be.
  • So we can discount the old second wave is linked to cold weather stuff to be the absolute bollocks it always was now then?
  • Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
    Perhaps that is it this. When unis go back over the course of this month, going to be some serious strain on the system, as at the best of times "freshers flu" strikes down basically every student.
    LOL jynx!

    The difference is that Freshers Flu is part caused by people coming from across the entire country into the same area (whereas schoolkids presumably pretty much all live in the same town) - and the copious amount of associated Freshers alcohol consumption and late night partying and poor diet away from the family all combining to impair immune systems.

    Hopefully 5-11 year olds don't have the latter half!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,719

    Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Something odd is going on. IIRC a poster on here earlier today was saying how efficiently their test had been dealt with in the last few days, and from what I've gleaned that poster is no great admirer of the government. Can't remember the poster's name though.
    @IanB2 who is on the Isle of Wight and a lapsing LD.

    The Isle of Wight has has special focus due to testing the Trace app, and for obvious reasons not easy for mainlanders to get tested there.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,562
    edited September 2020

    Alistair said:

    Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
    Week before Scottish schools went back approx 550 tests of 5-11 year olds in Scotland

    Week ending 30th August, 17,000 tests of 5-11 year olds.
    Why?

    Is that parents or teachers ordering those tests?

    They can't all have been reporting symptoms can they? Or is this like a back to school version of "Freshers Flu"?
    The case at my son's school that has resulted in all of the Year 7s being sent home to quarantine for 2 weeks also resulted in a letter saying that PHE recommendations were that all those kids should get a test as soon as possible.

    If that is repeated across, for example, Scotland with 1 case resulting in 200 tests then it doesn't take long to see the ramp up Alistair is suggesting.
  • Scott_xP said:
    And that kind of language adds nothing to the debate
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Interesting, Sean Trende is not a Dem ramper by any stretch.
    Hopefully defrauders of the scheme are caught.
  • Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
    Perhaps that is it this. When unis go back over the course of this month, going to be some serious strain on the system, as at the best of times "freshers flu" strikes down basically every student.
    LOL jynx!

    The difference is that Freshers Flu is part caused by people coming from across the entire country into the same area (whereas schoolkids presumably pretty much all live in the same town) - and the copious amount of associated Freshers alcohol consumption and late night partying and poor diet away from the family all combining to impair immune systems.

    Hopefully 5-11 year olds don't have the latter half!
    I would guess in the case of schools kids it is more likely nervy parents rather than little johnny telling mum and dad he feels a bit unwell (normally because all of a sudden has to be up at 7am again) and the parents saying shut up and get to school, now it will be arrrhhhhhjjj corona.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,719

    So we can discount the old second wave is linked to cold weather stuff to be the absolute bollocks it always was now then?

    I don't think there has ever been evidence of climate affecting the Covid-19 pandemic.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    I see Owen Jones is trying to get somebody cancelled from Twitter again.

    His new book is out. This Land - The Story of a Movement. I'm getting it.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    I think a lot of those tests are being wasted, in the sense that they’re being spent on people at no particularly elevated risk of being positive but who carry an increased medical or commercial risk. Every maternity ward in-patient for example. Every squad member of every professional sports team. No doubt business execs too. And as has been mentioned, the perennially worried who lie on an online form because they’re taking the kids to see granny next week.

    Something pretty wrong that a dr can prescribe Mr Gate a test but not immediately be able to take the swab there and then. Meanwhile proper Charlies in the premier league get weekly tests so they can keep their extra curricular activities going unimpeded.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    Nice to see IDS has identified a new group of fraudsters and skivers preventing this great nation from unleashing its undoubted righteous potential.
    Benefit claimants, the EU, now...er, business owners.
    Sanction them quick.
  • Alistair said:

    Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    Very odd.

    Only thing I can think of that makes sense is a surge of paranoid people getting an unnecessary test simultaneously because of back to school playing on their minds.
    Week before Scottish schools went back approx 550 tests of 5-11 year olds in Scotland

    Week ending 30th August, 17,000 tests of 5-11 year olds.
    Why?

    Is that parents or teachers ordering those tests?

    They can't all have been reporting symptoms can they? Or is this like a back to school version of "Freshers Flu"?
    The case at my son's school that has resulted in all of the Year 7s being sent home to quarantine for 2 weeks also resulted in a letter saying that PHE recommendations were that all those kids should get a test as soon as possible.

    If that is repeated across, for example, Scotland with 1 case resulting in 200 tests then it doesn't take long to see the ramp up Alistair is suggesting.
    We had the story today of a school Boris visited having a member of staff test positive & as per protocol a number of classes asked to stay at home. I imagine many parents might book tests just to be safe, even though no evidence member of staff has infected anybody.
  • Tests per day is dropping, suggesting increase detection is not down to more tests...

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

    02-09-2020 175,687
    01-09-2020 181,934
    31-08-2020 182,065
    30-08-2020 183,510
    29-08-2020 197,211
    28-08-2020 203,416
    27-08-2020 208,835
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    moonshine said:

    Something very odd is going on when they are doing upto 350k tests a day of which even with the increase in numbers only 2% are positive, while at the same time it seems there is still loads of people complaining about no capacity.

    I think a lot of those tests are being wasted, in the sense that they’re being spent on people at no particularly elevated risk of being positive but who carry an increased medical or commercial risk. Every maternity ward in-patient for example. Every squad member of every professional sports team. No doubt business execs too. And as has been mentioned, the perennially worried who lie on an online form because they’re taking the kids to see granny next week.

    Something pretty wrong that a dr can prescribe Mr Gate a test but not immediately be able to take the swab there and then. Meanwhile proper Charlies in the premier league get weekly tests so they can keep their extra curricular activities going unimpeded.
    That's market forces for you.
  • Simply stunning admission of Johnson’s incompetence on that Telegraph front page - he really hadn’t read the WA or he had not understood it. None of them had. It’s no surprise, but extraordinary they admit it.
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    Is anyone offering odds on whether Boris is going to end up cancelling Christmas this year? As in, no household mixing permitted. Everyone cooking sad little joints of turkey on the crown, pulling a cracker over zoom and all that jazz.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1303063043396558853
    Where are the signs that hospitalisations are increasing exponentially, though ?

    I may not be an expert, but I don't see it.
    Hopefully its not just lagging two weeks.

    Test and Trace is our best weapon in getting as back to normal as possible while still fighting this damned virus.

    If its just a case that late at night the slots have been booked and they'll be back 9am tomorrow morning that's fine - if there's a shortage and rationing again though, that is very worrying - and loss of control can't be that far behind.

    I hope Hancock is on top of this and we don't hear any more bloody inane talk of getting people who are perfectly happy working from home to be out and about instead. Lets get back to normal with people who WANT to be out and about.
    Given that all capacity is booked for the next 2 weeks what does waiting to tomorrow when appointments are available on September 22nd achieve?



    Are people booking tests who have no symptoms and not been contacted by Track and Trace? Just a thought.
    More likely, the return to school/work/whatever has massively increased the demand on the system (didn't that happen in Scotland, where schools went back a couple of weeks ago?)
    So, little Johnny comes home from school and says he feels hot. Panic. Book a test?
    Pretty much. And if T'n'T is going to do it's job (after all, the hard part is pinching out asymptomatic carriers), testing those who probably don't need it ought to be legit.

    What I don't know is what the rules are about testing other bubble members in the case of an outbreak. In some secondary schools, the bubbles are about 300 kids (an entire year group) and all the teachers who teach them. That could soak up a lot of testing capacity very quickly...
This discussion has been closed.