Labour should have quietly allowed the Northern MPs to vote for the deal and pushed it through. Would have split the Tory party for good
I'm assuming you mean May's deal?
I agree with you, that would have been very smart politics. It is what I thought Corbyn's original gameplan was, before he got attracted to the idea of defeating May in Commons votes. The Tories would have been torn asunder.
Thank goodness that didn't happen. Instead the Tories could excise the diehard extremists like Grieve, unite behind a common purpose and put the ghost of Europe division behind it. Thank you Labour!
In what parallel universe was Dominic Grieve ever a "diehard extremist"? Beyond parody!
This universe. He refused to honour the referendum result, a completely undemocratic extremist.
Its worth remembering that when John Major made Maastricht a confidence motion then not a single Maastricht Rebel went against that vote (one missed the vote as he was overseas and still lost the whip as a result). Grieve went against Brexit at every vote, refused to accept the referendum result and lost the whip by going against the government on a confidence vote.
Grieve was more of a diehard extremist than Bill Cash and the Maastricht bastards.
Absolute nonsense. The Conservative Party is a vastly poorer institution for the removal of Grieve and Co.
If you extrapolate your point to Corbyn's Labour Party, Corbyn was a moderate and Umuna had to go because he was an extremist.
Utter madness!
No Corbyn was on the far left extreme. Who was more extreme left wing than Corbyn within the party?
Grieve was on the far Remain extreme. Who was more extreme Remain than Grieve within the party?
You are making this up as you go along. Yes Corbyn was extreme and no Grieve was not extreme. One could barely find anyone more moderate than Grieve.
A party that cannot accomodation Grieve but can embrace Andrew Bridgen has some serious issues to deal with further down the line.
How do you define "moderate"
When the country voted to leave the EU at a referendum "moderate" was voting for a Brexit deal - Grieve is one of the only Tories who never did vote for any deal offered. He is as extreme as it gets.
Name a single Tory more extreme on the Remain side of the fence than Grieve please? Or are only Brexiteers extreme in your perverted worldview?
Please leave my perversions out of this!
So you're unable or unwilling to name any Tory Remainers more extreme than Grieve?
He was quite patently a diehard Remain extremist.
No you are right I can't because Tory Remaimners are moderate and the swivel-eyed brand of Brexiter within the Conservative party all fit my definition of extremists. Bone, Cash, Bridgen, Francois, Philip Davis, Chope etc. etc! I am quite happy to add JRM and Johnson to that list if you want.
Cash etc were less extreme than Grieve. Cash when a confidence motion was called voted for Maastricht - Grieve did not vote for a deal under a confidence vote. Grieve is even more extreme than Cash.
What makes Grieve more extreme than Cash considering that as per the referendum Brexiteering is the moderate opinion and Remaining is the minority one?
I've been banging my head against this wall for a couple of hours now. It is beginning to hurt.
You could start by explaining what in your worldview makes Remaining moderate rather than extreme.
I think those are all German Naval flags, the one at the bottom being used in WW1, the middle one in WW2, the top one the postwar Bundesrepublik navy flag.
The problem with "people should have voted for the deal" was that MPs wisely refuse to vote for something that makes their constituents poorer. Had the Corbyn death cult been prepared to compromise perhaps a customs union or even EEA vote could have been passed.
So no, they were right to reject the deal and roll the electoral dice. It was the only remaining move thanks to the Corbynite intransigence
Corbyn was not intransigent (at least, not on this issue). Labour offered a splash-and-dash, one issue GNU but Jo Swinson refused because the LibDems can't count. Swinson forgot half her MPs were defectors, not elected as LibDems, and the only route to revoking Article 50 ran through Labour.
Corbyn offered a government led by Corbyn. Which needed Tory remainers to back it and they wouldn't. So that wasn't an option - it's only purpose was to create a stab in the back legend with which to attack the Labour MPs who also refused to back it.
Of course Labour would expect an alternative government to be led by Labour, they would be making the overwhelming majority of the suggested MPs.
But even without Corbyn as an issue there was no majority. Labour/LD/SNP/TIG/Grieve etc could win votes because the DUP and Tory Leavers were voting against May with them . . . but they didn't have a majority. If they'd sought to make a GNU then even all added together they would have been a majority and Tories+DUP could have voted them down too. That's the issue, there was no majority in the old Parliament for anyone.
I think those are all German Naval flags, the one at the bottom being used in WW1, the middle one in WW2, the top one the postwar Bundesrepublik navy flag.
I remain baffled and genuinely surprised at the lack of reaction from the media and authorities to the 24 stroke flogging given to a Briton in Singapore last week. He certainly deserved severe punishment , but to be caned in that way with a Rotan is pure barbarism - indeed more severe than floggings routinely dished out by SS guards at concentration camps.
Is it really surprising?
1) He's a drug dealer, they get very little sympathy from the public.
2) He's a former public schoolboy, the public think we enjoy a good caning/spanking.
Caning at public schools ended in 1999.Moreover, a Judicial caning in Singapore is in no way comparable to a school punishment. The caner will have been a strong Martial Arts trained guy who would be able to remove the skin from this fellow's buttocks literally strip by strip. He really will be marked for life. There are pictures on the internet of former prisoners showing marks from 6 stroke canings received 10 years earlier. This Briton suffered 24 lashes.There was a much stronger response in the US back in 1994 when Michael Fay was given just 4 strokes.
The Mail emphasises his intelligence. If this is true then he is intelligent enough to know what he is risking, and intelligent enough to understand the nature of the 'wrong crowd' which, rather predictably his family claim he got involved with. In truth of course he may have been part of that same wrong 'crowd' himself. If you are bright and involved in drugs and in Singapore the other quality you need is courage. The system of punishments is designed so that only the most brave will risk it.
He left school post GCSEs and he did obtain many grade As and A*s - but at Westminster school that would be pretty standard.
I was perfectly happy with EEA, I still am utterly bemused why it was so unpopular with the Lib Dems
Because they are UKIP, just on the other side of the argument.
Hope you're well mate
I am, hope you are as well. Started house hunting, which is a nightmare.
Up here in Buchan I can buy a 6 bed house with half the furnishings AND the Bank of Scotland building it's adjoining for £260k. Or even more insanely a 6 room hotel plus attached managers house all fully furnished and newly refurbished for £195k. Both of which have (lapsed) planning permission to build more houses on the land that comes in the deal.
Labour should have quietly allowed the Northern MPs to vote for the deal and pushed it through. Would have split the Tory party for good
I'm assuming you mean May's deal?
I agree with you, that would have been very smart politics. It is what I thought Corbyn's original gameplan was, before he got attracted to the idea of defeating May in Commons votes. The Tories would have been torn asunder.
Thank goodness that didn't happen. Instead the Tories could excise the diehard extremists like Grieve, unite behind a common purpose and put the ghost of Europe division behind it. Thank you Labour!
In what parallel universe was Dominic Grieve ever a "diehard extremist"? Beyond parody!
He most certainly was. He took a position which brooked no compromise and utilised every intellectual and arcane procedural argument he could in pursuit of his goal, his actions demonstrating any word of compromise was not reflective of his aims.
Grieve was very bright, his allies would say very principled, and he was absolutely entitled to his position. Yet for some bizarre reason people hate to acknowledge that on the spectrum of extremes he was at one end and no dealers at the other.
That doesn't make it impossible for someone to think his position was more worthy than a no dealer. But he without question held an extreme position and that's not an insult. It's just plain silly to not accept his position was an extreme one compared to all those seeking a deal, of whatever stripe (and even most who voted against a deal claimed to be willing to vote for something).
It seems to come down to 'he is intelligent, effective, therefore not extreme'. But for that issue he was. Not good or bad. But extreme.
Hmm, lets agree to disagree.
A moderate person voted remain and now accepts the result. Simple democratic view. An extremist, especially one who claims to be a democrat, refuses to accept it and goes almost mad seeking ways to reverse it. The illness has afflicted much of the pre-referendum establishment who have failed to come to terms with the fact that the voters flouted their advice. As a remain voter it has been painful but illuminating to watch.
A moderate Remainer now accepts the result but voting Remain does not make one a moderate, it is the minority position. Moderate in this country is voting Leave but wanting a deal too.
It is not clear that Remain is the minority opinion any more. Polling suggests otherwise, though obviously would need a referendum to be sure.
Leave has singularly failed to convince that the choice was the right one.
Remain is neither a minority nor majority opinion considering that we've left already - we can't Remain anymore. Rejoin might be an opinion but I've seen no opinion polls on that yet.
Though we've had two General Elections since the EU Referendum and the result last December was that the Tories not just won a landslide majority but they won more votes than the Labour and Liberal Democrat parties combined.
In Dec 2019 the parties supporting Revoke or a further referendum included Lab, LD, Green, and SNP, totalling 50.3% of the vote. PC, SF, SDLP would need adding in as well, for a total of around 52%.
Labour should have quietly allowed the Northern MPs to vote for the deal and pushed it through. Would have split the Tory party for good
I'm assuming you mean May's deal?
I agree with you, that would have been very smart politics. It is what I thought Corbyn's original gameplan was, before he got attracted to the idea of defeating May in Commons votes. The Tories would have been torn asunder.
Thank goodness that didn't happen. Instead the Tories could excise the diehard extremists like Grieve, unite behind a common purpose and put the ghost of Europe division behind it. Thank you Labour!
In what parallel universe was Dominic Grieve ever a "diehard extremist"? Beyond parody!
This universe. He refused to honour the referendum result, a completely undemocratic extremist.
Its worth remembering that when John Major made Maastricht a confidence motion then not a single Maastricht Rebel went against that vote (one missed the vote as he was overseas and still lost the whip as a result). Grieve went against Brexit at every vote, refused to accept the referendum result and lost the whip by going against the government on a confidence vote.
Grieve was more of a diehard extremist than Bill Cash and the Maastricht bastards.
Absolute nonsense. The Conservative Party is a vastly poorer institution for the removal of Grieve and Co.
If you extrapolate your point to Corbyn's Labour Party, Corbyn was a moderate and Umuna had to go because he was an extremist.
Utter madness!
No Corbyn was on the far left extreme. Who was more extreme left wing than Corbyn within the party?
Grieve was on the far Remain extreme. Who was more extreme Remain than Grieve within the party?
You are making this up as you go along. Yes Corbyn was extreme and no Grieve was not extreme. One could barely find anyone more moderate than Grieve.
A party that cannot accomodation Grieve but can embrace Andrew Bridgen has some serious issues to deal with further down the line.
How do you define "moderate"
When the country voted to leave the EU at a referendum "moderate" was voting for a Brexit deal - Grieve is one of the only Tories who never did vote for any deal offered. He is as extreme as it gets.
Name a single Tory more extreme on the Remain side of the fence than Grieve please? Or are only Brexiteers extreme in your perverted worldview?
Please leave my perversions out of this!
So you're unable or unwilling to name any Tory Remainers more extreme than Grieve?
He was quite patently a diehard Remain extremist.
No you are right I can't because Tory Remaimners are moderate and the swivel-eyed brand of Brexiter within the Conservative party all fit my definition of extremists. Bone, Cash, Bridgen, Francois, Philip Davis, Chope etc. etc! I am quite happy to add JRM and Johnson to that list if you want.
Cash etc were less extreme than Grieve. Cash when a confidence motion was called voted for Maastricht - Grieve did not vote for a deal under a confidence vote. Grieve is even more extreme than Cash.
What makes Grieve more extreme than Cash considering that as per the referendum Brexiteering is the moderate opinion and Remaining is the minority one?
I've been banging my head against this wall for a couple of hours now. It is beginning to hurt.
You could start by explaining what in your worldview makes Remaining moderate rather than extreme.
Because we are now in the majority. Roll on EURef2 (or 3). Enough! I'm right.
I can only see those messages entrenching views on either side, rather than actually helping. His opponents won't believe him anyway, and his supporters will just think it's interference.
I was perfectly happy with EEA, I still am utterly bemused why it was so unpopular with the Lib Dems
Because they are UKIP, just on the other side of the argument.
Hope you're well mate
I am, hope you are as well. Started house hunting, which is a nightmare.
All good mate. I'm flat hunting for a new rental, prices keep dropping which is good news for us but I think terrible for the wider economy.
Buying has been delayed until I have more of an idea of what's going on, I will look again next year
Well I'm selling to buy so it's all about the same for me, for the first time I'm thinking of moving out of London. Our budget will buy a 4 or 5 bedroom detached house in the commuter belt, but where we live it would get a 3 bedroom flat with a garden. We'd need to spend an extra 40% to get a house with a garden in Hampstead, and while we could probably afford it, neither of us wants the lifestyle sacrifice that comes with such a gigantic amount of debt.
I was perfectly happy with EEA, I still am utterly bemused why it was so unpopular with the Lib Dems
Because they are UKIP, just on the other side of the argument.
Hope you're well mate
I am, hope you are as well. Started house hunting, which is a nightmare.
All good mate. I'm flat hunting for a new rental, prices keep dropping which is good news for us but I think terrible for the wider economy.
Buying has been delayed until I have more of an idea of what's going on, I will look again next year
Well I'm selling to buy so it's all about the same for me, for the first time I'm thinking of moving out of London. Our budget will buy a 4 or 5 bedroom detached house in the commuter belt, but where we live it would get a 3 bedroom flat with a garden. We'd need to spend an extra 40% to get a house with a garden in Hampstead, and while we could probably afford it, neither of us wants the lifestyle sacrifice that comes with such a gigantic amount of debt.
I went to college in Hampstead. It's all hills. Worse than Harrow in that regard.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
If England had declared yesterday at 450 like some here were saying (and Commentators were suggesting) then Pakistan would be past the Follow On target already.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
I remain baffled and genuinely surprised at the lack of reaction from the media and authorities to the 24 stroke flogging given to a Briton in Singapore last week. He certainly deserved severe punishment , but to be caned in that way with a Rotan is pure barbarism - indeed more severe than floggings routinely dished out by SS guards at concentration camps.
Is it really surprising?
1) He's a drug dealer, they get very little sympathy from the public.
2) He's a former public schoolboy, the public think we enjoy a good caning/spanking.
Will he be likely to reoffend? The answer is probably not. Whereas what we do probably won't.
If there's anything that embodies the charitable impulse, I've always said it's flying a hackenkreuz.
Many years ago, there was this very modest chap, who was invited to a party which was raising money for charity, and the theme was dress up as someone from a tv show.
Now I loved 'Allo 'Allo and thought about going dressed up as Gruber, but it was bloody difficult finding a Nazi outfit.
So I ended up going as Herr Flick, which people mistook for the chap in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Shaun Bailey can go shove his head up his arse. It is certainly where it belongs if he thinks this is a good idea
Mixed feelings about this. I have worked the last 30 years in an industry where random drug testing is the norm. No exceptions. So I am quite used to it and it doesn't really bother me. I see it as the price of a safe working environment.
Trouble is that outside of specific jobs (operating machinery, dangerous environments, responsibility for public safety) I don't really see the justification. Does it matter if a salesman, an accountant or a secretary has a drug habit as long as it doesn't impact their work? And if it does then there are other ways to deal with this related to their poor performance.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Arrrgggh!
Instead of grunting please try to articulate what makes Remain extremists not extreme in your eyes? Words may work.
If there's anything that embodies the charitable impulse, I've always said it's flying a hackenkreuz.
Many years ago, there was this very modest chap, who was invited to a party which was raising money for charity, and the theme was dress up as someone from a tv show.
Now I loved 'Allo 'Allo and thought about going dressed up as Gruber, but it was bloody difficult finding a Nazi outfit.
So I ended up going as Herr Flick, which people mistook for the chap in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
There's a bit of a Gruber meme going about that he resembles Hancock. 'Allo, 'Allo wasn't really my cup of tea, but Gruber was the ineffectual fanny wasn't he?
I was perfectly happy with EEA, I still am utterly bemused why it was so unpopular with the Lib Dems
Because they are UKIP, just on the other side of the argument.
Hope you're well mate
I am, hope you are as well. Started house hunting, which is a nightmare.
Up here in Buchan I can buy a 6 bed house with half the furnishings AND the Bank of Scotland building it's adjoining for £260k. Or even more insanely a 6 room hotel plus attached managers house all fully furnished and newly refurbished for £195k. Both of which have (lapsed) planning permission to build more houses on the land that comes in the deal.
For all the analysis of the events of last year, there are some clear reasons why the Conservatives won and won big. Once the ComRes poll on June 12th had confirmed only Boris Johnson could unite the Leave vote within the Conservative Party his victory in the leadership election and his GE victory were pretty much certain.
Had the Opposition parties had any sense they would either have accepted the May Deal or gone for an election as soon as Johnson became PM.
Johnson won because he created a voting coalition for the Conservatives of three elements - first, he got about 75% of the 2016 Leave vote in the Conservative camp - that included many former Labour voters who had voted Leave in 2016 but who had become disillusioned with the party.
The second group were those Remain voters who for all they were opposed to leaving the EU were far more opposed to the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister. It was not a risk they were prepared to countenance and that meant for example not voting LD.
The third group were those Remain voters who, though once again opposed to leaving the EU, believed the result of the 2016 referendum had to be respected and once Swinson had proposed revoking the result of the referendum, those voters were lost to the LDs.
It's my view Corbyn was always going to be a huge handicap for Labour in 2019 in a way he wasn't in 2017 when voting Labour to stop what seemed like a certain massive landslide for May seemed a reasonable option.
Thus, to paraphrase an old maxim, it wasn't the Government wot won the election, it was the Opposition wot lost it.
With the benefit of hindsight, the Opposition should have abstained on the vote on the WA on 29/3/19. They could have argued they were enacting the result of the 2016 Referendum (it was just the WA after all) and would have left a weakened May trying to manage the detail of the future Political Declaration where she would have been very much between the Eurosceptic hammer and the Remainer anvil.
If there's anything that embodies the charitable impulse, I've always said it's flying a hackenkreuz.
Many years ago, there was this very modest chap, who was invited to a party which was raising money for charity, and the theme was dress up as someone from a tv show.
Now I loved 'Allo 'Allo and thought about going dressed up as Gruber, but it was bloody difficult finding a Nazi outfit.
So I ended up going as Herr Flick, which people mistook for the chap in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
There's a bit of a Gruber meme going about that he resembles Hancock. 'Allo, 'Allo wasn't really my cup of tea, but Gruber was the ineffectual fanny wasn't he?
Shaun Bailey can go shove his head up his arse. It is certainly where it belongs if he thinks this is a good idea
Mixed feelings about this. I have worked the last 30 years in an industry where random drug testing is the norm. No exceptions. So I am quite used to it and it doesn't really bother me. I see it as the price of a safe working environment.
Trouble is that outside of specific jobs (operating machinery, dangerous environments, responsibility for public safety) I don't really see the justification. Does it matter if a salesman, an accountant or a secretary has a drug habit as long as it doesn't impact their work? And if it does then there are other ways to deal with this related to their poor performance.
Quite there are jobs which you would like to think no one is high, other jobs where it doesn't matter. Even then it should only matter if they turn up still not compis mentis otherwise its really no ones damn business.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Arrrgggh!
Instead of grunting please try to articulate what makes Remain extremists not extreme in your eyes? Words may work.
Because we know Brexit is going to be a disaster for our country once the transition period is over. Not least because it was sold as the Emperor's New Clothes. It will also serve to break up the Union, which I am disheartened by and make us considerably poorer as a nation and individuals, both culturally and economically.
You are like a terrier snapping at my trouser leg. Desist!
Is Scotland becoming unwelcoming to the English ? We saw blatant bigotry towards the English during the brexit debates. Nationalists shouting abuse at English drivers going over the border and now this from a leading Scottish celebrity. https://twitter.com/thecoastguy/status/1297251525094453249?s=21
I'm in a rural Aberdeenshire village. The locals cannot be more welcoming
Kinsella is an absolute nutjob, a bit like Oliver. Sad Little Englanders always whining and whinging.
Dr (I believe) Oliver is a Scot, to be more technically pedantic. But I was a bit surprised by his tone in indyref 1 and so on - nto so much his wish to remain in the union, but the tone of his public language at a rtime when he was convener of a major conservation body. Not that he resigned/left/whatever over that, but over something quite different.
I know Neil Oliver personally having worked with him on the Two Men in a Trench TV series. I don't agree with him about Independence but he is one of the nicest and least 'celebrity' people you could ever hope to meet. Unlike some other TV personalities in the history/archaeology game he always had time for everyone and had absolutely no airs about him at all.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Arrrgggh!
Instead of grunting please try to articulate what makes Remain extremists not extreme in your eyes? Words may work.
Because we know Brexit is going to be a disaster for our country once the transition period is over. Not least because it was sold as the Emperor's New Clothes. It will also serve to break up the Union, which I am disheartened by and make us considerably poorer as a nation and individuals, both culturally and economically.
You are like a terrier snapping at my trouser leg. Desist!
So you are saying Grieve isn't an extremist simply because you yourself are an extremist.
Simply because people agree with you doesn't make them not extreme if you are taking an extreme opinion yourself. I am prepared to acknowledge I took an extreme opinion in opposing May's deal vehemently, its a shame you can't be as honest to yourself as I am.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Arrrgggh!
Instead of grunting please try to articulate what makes Remain extremists not extreme in your eyes? Words may work.
Because we know Brexit is going to be a disaster for our country once the transition period is over. Not least because it was sold as the Emperor's New Clothes. It will also serve to break up the Union, which I am disheartened by and make us considerably poorer as a nation and individuals, both culturally and economically.
You are like a terrier snapping at my trouser leg. Desist!
Its only going to be a disaster in your mind. For me brexit isn't going to be a disaster at all in any way shape or form because money is not the deciding factor in whether its successful or not.
At the end of the day people want to buy stuff and people want to sell stuff. I don't believe for a moment that will stop because of brexit. People keep saying who will you sell fish to the answer is the same people who buy it now. Yes may cost them more because of tariffs but I don't see that people will suddenly go you know what we won't eat spider crabs anymore because they come from britain.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Arrrgggh!
Instead of grunting please try to articulate what makes Remain extremists not extreme in your eyes? Words may work.
Because we know Brexit is going to be a disaster for our country once the transition period is over. Not least because it was sold as the Emperor's New Clothes. It will also serve to break up the Union, which I am disheartened by and make us considerably poorer as a nation and individuals, both culturally and economically.
You are like a terrier snapping at my trouser leg. Desist!
Its only going to be a disaster in your mind. For me brexit isn't going to be a disaster at all in any way shape or form because money is not the deciding factor in whether its successful or not.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Arrrgggh!
Instead of grunting please try to articulate what makes Remain extremists not extreme in your eyes? Words may work.
Because we know Brexit is going to be a disaster for our country once the transition period is over. Not least because it was sold as the Emperor's New Clothes. It will also serve to break up the Union, which I am disheartened by and make us considerably poorer as a nation and individuals, both culturally and economically.
You are like a terrier snapping at my trouser leg. Desist!
Its only going to be a disaster in your mind. For me brexit isn't going to be a disaster at all in any way shape or form because money is not the deciding factor in whether its successful or not.
What are the deciding factors for you?
The fact that we can vote for something and be told by the eu sorry you can't do that. Which we would have found if we had not voted for brexit and people had voted for a Corbyn governement.
The fact that as ministers have previously admitted when they want to do something that they know they cant get past parliament they get it done at european level.
The fact that we can't specify the quality of migrants in terms of whether they are net contributors but have to take any eu national even if they are going to be a drain.
The fact that even under the EU jobs were quite happily lost such as the van factory that got a grant to move from the EU and none of you europhiles gave a damn and yet you whinge time after time about possible job losses due to brexit.
The fact that we will regain control of our natural resources such as fish.
The fact that EU democracy is a sham. You have a parliament that can only rubber stamp legislation brought in by buraeucrats or reject it and they play games with the parliament such as when they changed the article numbers on the copyright legislation so parliament members voted yes for stuff they disagreed with because they changed the numbers.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
If you know who he is why have you not raised his posting with CCHQ? I defend his right to post whatever he likes just as I do. However that does not mean you shouldn't bring it to the party attention so if they think it an issue they can disassociate your party from him.
If there's anything that embodies the charitable impulse, I've always said it's flying a hackenkreuz.
Many years ago, there was this very modest chap, who was invited to a party which was raising money for charity, and the theme was dress up as someone from a tv show.
Now I loved 'Allo 'Allo and thought about going dressed up as Gruber, but it was bloody difficult finding a Nazi outfit.
So I ended up going as Herr Flick, which people mistook for the chap in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
There's a bit of a Gruber meme going about that he resembles Hancock. 'Allo, 'Allo wasn't really my cup of tea, but Gruber was the ineffectual fanny wasn't he?
People who don't like 'Allo 'Allo are in the same category as people who put pineapple on their pizzas.
It was Officer Crabtree that did it for me, 'I was pissing by the door when I heard two shats.'
Little did I know two decades later after obtaining an A* in French I'd end up sounding like Officer Crabtree when I speak French.
That's kind of the joke - Crabtree's accent is based, in part, on Edward Heath's mangling of the language.
Now, where was I? Gruber?
He's wearing a number of medals including the Iron Cross (1st and 2nd class), there's a long service award and also the Eastern Front medal. Perhaps there's a good reason he went out of his way to avoid further trouble.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
If you know who he is why have you not raised his posting with CCHQ? I defend his right to post whatever he likes just as I do. However that does not mean you shouldn't bring it to the party attention so if they think it an issue they can disassociate your party from him.
I do know who he is but I am not going back into the cut and trust of constituency politics at my age. I will continue to call him out whenever he steps over the line
However, he may reflect his associations views, who knows
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
If you know who he is why have you not raised his posting with CCHQ? I defend his right to post whatever he likes just as I do. However that does not mean you shouldn't bring it to the party attention so if they think it an issue they can disassociate your party from him.
I do know who he is but I am not going back into the cut and trust of constituency politics at my age. I will continue to call him out whenever he steps over the line
However, he may reflect his associations views, who knows
Sounds a bit weak to me, so many tories saying he doesn't represent tory thought yet none of you do anything about it.
The Blackburn Roc might be considered to be one of the worst designs produced for the Royal Navy.
Perhaps the guy should turn his attention to Westminster.
Some seriously duff British planes in that thread. It's a wonder that we got through. Pretty pisspoor tanks too.
I was wondering who would be classed as a Mosquito. Revolutionary, stealthy and in a class of its own.
Was reading a thread by Callum Douglas, which referred to Goring's fury about the ineffectual attempts to intercept The Mosquito, as it was hard to pick up on radar.
(He has just completed a book on aircraft engine technology during WW2)
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Arrrgggh!
Instead of grunting please try to articulate what makes Remain extremists not extreme in your eyes? Words may work.
Because we know Brexit is going to be a disaster for our country once the transition period is over. Not least because it was sold as the Emperor's New Clothes. It will also serve to break up the Union, which I am disheartened by and make us considerably poorer as a nation and individuals, both culturally and economically.
You are like a terrier snapping at my trouser leg. Desist!
Its only going to be a disaster in your mind. For me brexit isn't going to be a disaster at all in any way shape or form because money is not the deciding factor in whether its successful or not.
What are the deciding factors for you?
The fact that we can vote for something and be told by the eu sorry you can't do that. Which we would have found if we had not voted for brexit and people had voted for a Corbyn governement.
The fact that as ministers have previously admitted when they want to do something that they know they cant get past parliament they get it done at european level.
The fact that we can't specify the quality of migrants in terms of whether they are net contributors but have to take any eu national even if they are going to be a drain.
The fact that even under the EU jobs were quite happily lost such as the van factory that got a grant to move from the EU and none of you europhiles gave a damn and yet you whinge time after time about possible job losses due to brexit.
The fact that we will regain control of our natural resources such as fish.
The fact that EU democracy is a sham. You have a parliament that can only rubber stamp legislation brought in by buraeucrats or reject it and they play games with the parliament such as when they changed the article numbers on the copyright legislation so parliament members voted yes for stuff they disagreed with because they changed the numbers.
There is a few for starters.
Those are reasons why you want Brexit. They don't guarantee that it won't be a disaster.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
What complete and utter rubbish, MalcG clearly posted his original post in an attempt to attack the Tory Party. There have been councillors and elected officials charged and convicted of offences in all parties and I can assure you my local branch which I chair will be applauding me for standing up for my party against malicious and politically motivated attacks by some posters on here.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Arrrgggh!
Instead of grunting please try to articulate what makes Remain extremists not extreme in your eyes? Words may work.
Because we know Brexit is going to be a disaster for our country once the transition period is over. Not least because it was sold as the Emperor's New Clothes. It will also serve to break up the Union, which I am disheartened by and make us considerably poorer as a nation and individuals, both culturally and economically.
Yongu are like a terrier snapping at my trouser leg. Desist!
Its only going to be a disaster in your mind. For me brexit isn't going to be a disaster at all in any way shape or form because money is not the deciding factor in whether its successful or not.
What are the deciding factors for you?
The fact that we can vote for something and be told by the eu sorry you can't do that. Which we would have found if we had not voted for brexit and people had voted for a Corbyn governement.
The fact that as ministers have previously admitted when they want to do something that they know they cant get past parliament they get it done at european level.
The fact that we can't specify the quality of migrants in terms of whether they are net contributors but have to take any eu national even if they are going to be a drain.
The fact that even under the EU jobs were quite happily lost such as the van factory that got a grant to move from the EU and none of you europhiles gave a damn and yet you whinge time after time about possible job losses due to brexit.
The fact that we will regain control of our natural resources such as fish.
The fact that EU democracy is a sham. You have a parliament that can only rubber stamp legislation brought in by buraeucrats or reject it and they play games with the parliament such as when they changed the article numbers on the copyright legislation so parliament members voted yes for stuff they disagreed with because they changed the numbers.
There is a few for starters.
Those are reasons why you want Brexit. They don't guarantee that it won't be a disaster.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
Well as a former Labour voter I can assure you you would not get very far, I am getting sick to death of your pomposity and attacks on me
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
If you know who he is why have you not raised his posting with CCHQ? I defend his right to post whatever he likes just as I do. However that does not mean you shouldn't bring it to the party attention so if they think it an issue they can disassociate your party from him.
I do know who he is but I am not going back into the cut and trust of constituency politics at my age. I will continue to call him out whenever he steps over the line
However, he may reflect his associations views, who knows
Sounds a bit weak to me, so many tories saying he doesn't represent tory thought yet none of you do anything about it.
I'm sure the promise to poison and injure babies was left out of the 2019 Tory manifesto.
For all the analysis of the events of last year, there are some clear reasons why the Conservatives won and won big. Once the ComRes poll on June 12th had confirmed only Boris Johnson could unite the Leave vote within the Conservative Party his victory in the leadership election and his GE victory were pretty much certain.
Had the Opposition parties had any sense they would either have accepted the May Deal or gone for an election as soon as Johnson became PM.
Johnson won because he created a voting coalition for the Conservatives of three elements - first, he got about 75% of the 2016 Leave vote in the Conservative camp - that included many former Labour voters who had voted Leave in 2016 but who had become disillusioned with the party.
The second group were those Remain voters who for all they were opposed to leaving the EU were far more opposed to the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister. It was not a risk they were prepared to countenance and that meant for example not voting LD.
The third group were those Remain voters who, though once again opposed to leaving the EU, believed the result of the 2016 referendum had to be respected and once Swinson had proposed revoking the result of the referendum, those voters were lost to the LDs.
It's my view Corbyn was always going to be a huge handicap for Labour in 2019 in a way he wasn't in 2017 when voting Labour to stop what seemed like a certain massive landslide for May seemed a reasonable option.
Thus, to paraphrase an old maxim, it wasn't the Government wot won the election, it was the Opposition wot lost it.
With the benefit of hindsight, the Opposition should have abstained on the vote on the WA on 29/3/19. They could have argued they were enacting the result of the 2016 Referendum (it was just the WA after all) and would have left a weakened May trying to manage the detail of the future Political Declaration where she would have been very much between the Eurosceptic hammer and the Remainer anvil.
Some of us were saying this at the time. No hindsight required. Labour abstaining would have left Brexit as a Tory civil war.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
If you know who he is why have you not raised his posting with CCHQ? I defend his right to post whatever he likes just as I do. However that does not mean you shouldn't bring it to the party attention so if they think it an issue they can disassociate your party from him.
I do know who he is but I am not going back into the cut and trust of constituency politics at my age. I will continue to call him out whenever he steps over the line
However, he may reflect his associations views, who knows
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
Well as a former Labour voter I can assure you you would not get very far, I am getting sick to death of your pomposity and attacks on me
You underestimate my standing in the party and as long as you post embarrassing nonsense I will call you out.
If there's anything that embodies the charitable impulse, I've always said it's flying a hackenkreuz.
Many years ago, there was this very modest chap, who was invited to a party which was raising money for charity, and the theme was dress up as someone from a tv show.
Now I loved 'Allo 'Allo and thought about going dressed up as Gruber, but it was bloody difficult finding a Nazi outfit.
So I ended up going as Herr Flick, which people mistook for the chap in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
There's a bit of a Gruber meme going about that he resembles Hancock. 'Allo, 'Allo wasn't really my cup of tea, but Gruber was the ineffectual fanny wasn't he?
People who don't like 'Allo 'Allo are in the same category as people who put pineapple on their pizzas.
It was Officer Crabtree that did it for me, 'I was pissing by the door when I heard two shats.'
Little did I know two decades later after obtaining an A* in French I'd end up sounding like Officer Crabtree when I speak French.
That's kind of the joke - Crabtree's accent is based, in part, on Edward Heath's mangling of the language.
Now, where was I? Gruber?
He's wearing a number of medals including the Iron Cross (1st and 2nd class), there's a long service award and also the Eastern Front medal. Perhaps there's a good reason he went out of his way to avoid further trouble.
Guy Siner voiced the Flight Officer in the 1990s-vintage Tie Fighter space simulator game.
Rejoin is very unpopular with the public - and I am one of the people that wants nothing to do with it.
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
Nah. I had resigned myself to the reality that we have left and are unlikely to rejoin in my lifetime. Thommo however has so pissed me off thisafternoon that I might start my own campaign to rejoin!
Because I simply state things matter of factly?
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
Arrrgggh!
Instead of grunting please try to articulate what makes Remain extremists not extreme in your eyes? Words may work.
Because we know Brexit is going to be a disaster for our country once the transition period is over. Not least because it was sold as the Emperor's New Clothes. It will also serve to break up the Union, which I am disheartened by and make us considerably poorer as a nation and individuals, both culturally and economically.
You are like a terrier snapping at my trouser leg. Desist!
Its only going to be a disaster in your mind. For me brexit isn't going to be a disaster at all in any way shape or form because money is not the deciding factor in whether its successful or not.
What are the deciding factors for you?
The fact that we can vote for something and be told by the eu sorry you can't do that. Which we would have found if we had not voted for brexit and people had voted for a Corbyn governement.
The fact that as ministers have previously admitted when they want to do something that they know they cant get past parliament they get it done at european level.
The fact that we can't specify the quality of migrants in terms of whether they are net contributors but have to take any eu national even if they are going to be a drain.
The fact that even under the EU jobs were quite happily lost such as the van factory that got a grant to move from the EU and none of you europhiles gave a damn and yet you whinge time after time about possible job losses due to brexit.
The fact that we will regain control of our natural resources such as fish.
The fact that EU democracy is a sham. You have a parliament that can only rubber stamp legislation brought in by buraeucrats or reject it and they play games with the parliament such as when they changed the article numbers on the copyright legislation so parliament members voted yes for stuff they disagreed with because they changed the numbers.
There is a few for starters.
Those are reasons why you want Brexit. They don't guarantee that it won't be a disaster.
If they get fixed it wont be a disaster, frankly I don't care about gdp it isn't important. GDP may well fall short term. Over the long term gdp per capita I believe will rise. The nations GDP only matters to politicians and europhiles it doesn't matter in the least to your average person all we care about is the size of our slice of pie.
This is why I always rejected the migrants add x percent to GDP crap that people like you come out with. That only counts if median average wage rises more than inflation something which it has signally failed to do. We made the pie bigger but most people's slice of the pie didn't.
Most people that are over minimum wage but below senior mangagement have seen little to no wage growth compared to an ever increasing cost of living. This is why they rolled the dice and voted out. The current situation just saw them gradually getting poorer and poorer relatively as their wages stagnated and the cost of living kept on rising.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
What complete and utter rubbish, MalcG clearly posted his original post in an attempt to attack the Tory Party. There have been councillors and elected officials charged and convicted of offences in all parties and I can assure you my local branch which I chair will be applauding me for standing up for my party against malicious and politically motivated attacks by some posters on here.
And if you want more serious allegations against former SNP elected officials try these
The difference is I am not so pathetic as to state that what some individuals are convicted of represents the millions who vote for their parties or the thousands of their elected officials or their hundreds of thousands of members
BACK HOME AGAIN IN INDIANA James F. Hanley & Ballard MacDonald
I have always been a wanderer Over land and sea Yet a moonbeam on the water Casts a spell o'er me A vision fair I see Again I seem to be
Back home again in Indiana And it seems that I can see The gleaming candlelight still shining bright Through the sycamores for me The new mown hay sends all its fragrance From fields I used to roam When I dream About the moonlight on the Wabash Then I long for my Indiana home
Fancy paints on memory's canvas Scenes that we hold dear We recall them in days after Clearly they appear And often times I see A scene that's dear to me
Back home again in Indiana And it seems that I can see The gleaming candlelight still shining bright Through the sycamores for me The new mown hay sends all its fragrance From fields I used to roam When I dream About the moonlight on the Wabash Then I long for my Indiana home
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
If you know who he is why have you not raised his posting with CCHQ? I defend his right to post whatever he likes just as I do. However that does not mean you shouldn't bring it to the party attention so if they think it an issue they can disassociate your party from him.
I do know who he is but I am not going back into the cut and trust of constituency politics at my age. I will continue to call him out whenever he steps over the line
However, he may reflect his associations views, who knows
WEAK WEAK WEAK
Maybe but going on 77 with an 81year old wife I am content that I have served my party well since I was asked to be a councillor by them when I was 20 and have voted every time for the party, except twice for Blair, when he was the right choice at that time
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
What complete and utter rubbish, MalcG clearly posted his original post in an attempt to attack the Tory Party. There have been councillors and elected officials charged and convicted of offences in all parties and I can assure you my local branch which I chair will be applauding me for standing up for my party against malicious and politically motivated attacks by some posters on here.
And if you want more serious allegations against former SNP elected officials try these
The difference is I am not so pathetic as to state that what some individuals are convicted of represents the millions who vote for their parties or the thousands of their elected officials or their hundreds of thousands of members
Quite frankly fuck you, tory councillor committed terrorist offences and literally you come back with domestic abuse.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
What complete and utter rubbish, MalcG clearly posted his original post in an attempt to attack the Tory Party. There have been councillors and elected officials charged and convicted of offences in all parties and I can assure you my local branch which I chair will be applauding me for standing up for my party against malicious and politically motivated attacks by some posters on here.
And if you want more serious allegations against former SNP elected officials try these
The difference is I am not so pathetic as to state that what some individuals are convicted of represents the millions who vote for their parties or the thousands of their elected officials or their hundreds of thousands of members
Quite frankly fuck you, tory councillor committed terrorist offences and literally you come back with domestic abuse.
FU you too, domestic abuse is extremely serious for those abused and damaging for those concerned. Putting metal in baby food is also extremely serious but it was not terrorism and you are again being politically motivated in stating so and you know it.
I have to say you are the rudest most aggressive person I have ever encountered on PB
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
If you know who he is why have you not raised his posting with CCHQ? I defend his right to post whatever he likes just as I do. However that does not mean you shouldn't bring it to the party attention so if they think it an issue they can disassociate your party from him.
I love seeing a little blue on blue action, but I don't think your advice is sensible.
Best to live and let live. Some of HYUFDs ideas are strange, but no need to make mountains out of molehills.
Anyone watching the Indy500? Seems very odd seeing nobody sat in the seats when it's an oval built specifically to give spectators a good view
Usually the world record in any given year, for a single day’s ticketed sporting event. There’s 250,000 seats there, and usually an attendance close to 400,000 people.
The Blackburn Roc might be considered to be one of the worst designs produced for the Royal Navy.
Perhaps the guy should turn his attention to Westminster.
Some seriously duff British planes in that thread. It's a wonder that we got through. Pretty pisspoor tanks too.
I was wondering who would be classed as a Mosquito. Revolutionary, stealthy and in a class of its own.
Was reading a thread by Callum Douglas, which referred to Goring's fury about the ineffectual attempts to intercept The Mosquito, as it was hard to pick up on radar.
(He has just completed a book on aircraft engine technology during WW2)
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
What complete and utter rubbish, MalcG clearly posted his original post in an attempt to attack the Tory Party. There have been councillors and elected officials charged and convicted of offences in all parties and I can assure you my local branch which I chair will be applauding me for standing up for my party against malicious and politically motivated attacks by some posters on here.
And if you want more serious allegations against former SNP elected officials try these
The difference is I am not so pathetic as to state that what some individuals are convicted of represents the millions who vote for their parties or the thousands of their elected officials or their hundreds of thousands of members
Quite frankly fuck you, tory councillor committed terrorist offences and literally you come back with domestic abuse.
FU you too, domestic abuse is extremely serious for those abused and damaging for those concerned. Putting metal in baby food is also extremely serious but it was not terrorism and you are again being politically motivated in stating so and you know it
Tampering with the food supply is definitely a terrorist offence. Yes I am so politically motivated that I am telling the tories of whom I am not a member that they need to give you your marching orders as you make them look bad. If i was being politically motivated I would be pointing at you and going "hey look this is what tories are like". The fact that you disgust most tories here should be a wake up call. You are a disgusting individual with disgusting views end of story. You even make other tories sick. They should man up and kick you out you belong in a party with people like Nick Griffin
This is a stupid argument. Anyone who puts metal into baby food is criminally insane, and needs help and locking away - not necessarily in that order. The fact they've been a councillor in the Tory party is neither here nor there, and it was a fairly shit comment by Malc. It was also pretty silly of HYUFD to respond by listing 'SNP' legal sins - none of which have anything to do with the perpetrators' SNP allegiances either.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
If you know who he is why have you not raised his posting with CCHQ? I defend his right to post whatever he likes just as I do. However that does not mean you shouldn't bring it to the party attention so if they think it an issue they can disassociate your party from him.
I love seeing a little blue on blue action, but I don't think your advice is sensible.
Best to live and let live. Some of HYUFDs ideas are strange, but no need to make mountains out of molehills.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
If I was younger and lived in his area I would mount a serious challenge to his position in the local party
He shames the party
If you know who he is why have you not raised his posting with CCHQ? I defend his right to post whatever he likes just as I do. However that does not mean you shouldn't bring it to the party attention so if they think it an issue they can disassociate your party from him.
I love seeing a little blue on blue action, but I don't think your advice is sensible.
Best to live and let live. Some of HYUFDs ideas are strange, but no need to make mountains out of molehills.
It’s become happy hour, free pops at HYUFD at this time each evening. Most of its trolling and he should know better than to engage, the rest is boring.
There's your Tories for you: Farmer who planted metal shards in Tesco baby food is an ex-Tory councillor A FARMER who planted baby food laced with metal shards in a Scottish Tesco is a former Tory councillor, it has been revealed.
Really a tory councillor launches a terrorist attack on babies and you equivocate that with whataboutery with someone that sent a few dick pics.....words fail me. The more you post the more repugnant you become. As some seem to know who you are that are tory members I really hope that they are seriously considering referring your posts to CCHQ because you bring your party into complete disrepute
What complete and utter rubbish, MalcG clearly posted his original post in an attempt to attack the Tory Party. There have been councillors and elected officials charged and convicted of offences in all parties and I can assure you my local branch which I chair will be applauding me for standing up for my party against malicious and politically motivated attacks by some posters on here.
And if you want more serious allegations against former SNP elected officials try these
The difference is I am not so pathetic as to state that what some individuals are convicted of represents the millions who vote for their parties or the thousands of their elected officials or their hundreds of thousands of members
Quite frankly fuck you, tory councillor committed terrorist offences and literally you come back with domestic abuse.
FU you too, domestic abuse is extremely serious for those abused and damaging for those concerned. Putting metal in baby food is also extremely serious but it was not terrorism and you are again being politically motivated in stating so and you know it
Tampering with the food supply is definitely a terrorist offence. Yes I am so politically motivated that I am telling the tories of whom I am not a member that they need to give you your marching orders as you make them look bad. If i was being politically motivated I would be pointing at you and going "hey look this is what tories are like". The fact that you disgust most tories here should be a wake up call. You are a disgusting individual with disgusting views end of story. You even make other tories sick. They should man up and kick you out you belong in a party with people like Nick Griffin
He has not been charged with a terrorist offence so technically no it is not.
You are politically motivated indeed, I have never made one racist comment on here you have an agenda, you are not a conservative, you are rude, uncivilised and aggressive and you bring down the whole tone of this blog
This is a stupid argument. Anyone who puts metal into baby food is criminally insane, and needs help and locking away - not necessarily in that order. The fact they've been a councillor in the Tory party is neither here nor there, and it was a fairly shit comment by Malc. It was also pretty silly of HYUFD to respond by listing 'SNP' legal sins - none of which have anything to do with the perpetrators' SNP allegiances either.
I only did it in response to MalcG's post, of course I agree what individuals are convicted of has nothing to do with their fellow party members or voters
The Blackburn Roc might be considered to be one of the worst designs produced for the Royal Navy.
Perhaps the guy should turn his attention to Westminster.
Some seriously duff British planes in that thread. It's a wonder that we got through. Pretty pisspoor tanks too.
I was wondering who would be classed as a Mosquito. Revolutionary, stealthy and in a class of its own.
Was reading a thread by Callum Douglas, which referred to Goring's fury about the ineffectual attempts to intercept The Mosquito, as it was hard to pick up on radar.
(He has just completed a book on aircraft engine technology during WW2)
Oh? What's that book? or is it not out yet?
This is the book, it is almost ready. His twitter threads are worth reading.
Comments
If it came up, I genuinely might abstain
They couldn't catch the clap in a whorehouse.
Buying has been delayed until I have more of an idea of what's going on, I will look again next year
A bit bonkers, but maybe not a nazi.
But even without Corbyn as an issue there was no majority. Labour/LD/SNP/TIG/Grieve etc could win votes because the DUP and Tory Leavers were voting against May with them . . . but they didn't have a majority. If they'd sought to make a GNU then even all added together they would have been a majority and Tories+DUP could have voted them down too. That's the issue, there was no majority in the old Parliament for anyone.
When you think about the context of this, it would have been wicket number 598, a Test five-fer and wicket number 599.
Wifey wants to move up...
Happy days
I'm quite capable of saying that Grieve is an extremist on the Remain side and that Francois is an extremist on the Leave side.
The fact you want to call Leavers extremists and say there are zero Remain extremists just shows that you are incapable of being honest and doesn't make you right.
1938 - 45 Armed forces flag;
1903 - 18 Armed forces flag.
Now I loved 'Allo 'Allo and thought about going dressed up as Gruber, but it was bloody difficult finding a Nazi outfit.
So I ended up going as Herr Flick, which people mistook for the chap in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Trouble is that outside of specific jobs (operating machinery, dangerous environments, responsibility for public safety) I don't really see the justification. Does it matter if a salesman, an accountant or a secretary has a drug habit as long as it doesn't impact their work? And if it does then there are other ways to deal with this related to their poor performance.
https://twitter.com/MrLiamArnold/status/1184949675196960768?s=20
For all the analysis of the events of last year, there are some clear reasons why the Conservatives won and won big. Once the ComRes poll on June 12th had confirmed only Boris Johnson could unite the Leave vote within the Conservative Party his victory in the leadership election and his GE victory were pretty much certain.
Had the Opposition parties had any sense they would either have accepted the May Deal or gone for an election as soon as Johnson became PM.
Johnson won because he created a voting coalition for the Conservatives of three elements - first, he got about 75% of the 2016 Leave vote in the Conservative camp - that included many former Labour voters who had voted Leave in 2016 but who had become disillusioned with the party.
The second group were those Remain voters who for all they were opposed to leaving the EU were far more opposed to the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister. It was not a risk they were prepared to countenance and that meant for example not voting LD.
The third group were those Remain voters who, though once again opposed to leaving the EU, believed the result of the 2016 referendum had to be respected and once Swinson had proposed revoking the result of the referendum, those voters were lost to the LDs.
It's my view Corbyn was always going to be a huge handicap for Labour in 2019 in a way he wasn't in 2017 when voting Labour to stop what seemed like a certain massive landslide for May seemed a reasonable option.
Thus, to paraphrase an old maxim, it wasn't the Government wot won the election, it was the Opposition wot lost it.
With the benefit of hindsight, the Opposition should have abstained on the vote on the WA on 29/3/19. They could have argued they were enacting the result of the 2016 Referendum (it was just the WA after all) and would have left a weakened May trying to manage the detail of the future Political Declaration where she would have been very much between the Eurosceptic hammer and the Remainer anvil.
It was Officer Crabtree that did it for me, 'I was pissing by the door when I heard two shats.'
Little did I know two decades later after obtaining an A* in French I'd end up sounding like Officer Crabtree when I speak French.
You are like a terrier snapping at my trouser leg. Desist!
Simply because people agree with you doesn't make them not extreme if you are taking an extreme opinion yourself. I am prepared to acknowledge I took an extreme opinion in opposing May's deal vehemently, its a shame you can't be as honest to yourself as I am.
At the end of the day people want to buy stuff and people want to sell stuff. I don't believe for a moment that will stop because of brexit. People keep saying who will you sell fish to the answer is the same people who buy it now. Yes may cost them more because of tariffs but I don't see that people will suddenly go you know what we won't eat spider crabs anymore because they come from britain.
https://twitter.com/cocteautriplets/status/1297588262316515330
The Blackburn Roc might be considered to be one of the worst designs produced for the Royal Navy.
Perhaps the guy should turn his attention to Westminster.
The fact that as ministers have previously admitted when they want to do something that they know they cant get past parliament they get it done at european level.
The fact that we can't specify the quality of migrants in terms of whether they are net contributors but have to take any eu national even if they are going to be a drain.
The fact that even under the EU jobs were quite happily lost such as the van factory that got a grant to move from the EU and none of you europhiles gave a damn and yet you whinge time after time about possible job losses due to brexit.
The fact that we will regain control of our natural resources such as fish.
The fact that EU democracy is a sham. You have a parliament that can only rubber stamp legislation brought in by buraeucrats or reject it and they play games with the parliament such as when they changed the article numbers on the copyright legislation so parliament members voted yes for stuff they disagreed with because they changed the numbers.
There is a few for starters.
If it works then his manifest genius will have saved America!
If it doesn't then he'll blame us.
I'm not sure I'd want to be anywhere within the nuclear blast radius of Oxford around the second half of October.
He shames the party
Now, where was I? Gruber?
He's wearing a number of medals including the Iron Cross (1st and 2nd class), there's a long service award and also the Eastern Front medal. Perhaps there's a good reason he went out of his way to avoid further trouble.
However, he may reflect his associations views, who knows
Was reading a thread by Callum Douglas, which referred to Goring's fury about the ineffectual attempts to intercept The Mosquito, as it was hard to pick up on radar.
(He has just completed a book on aircraft engine technology during WW2)
Muppets.
This is why I always rejected the migrants add x percent to GDP crap that people like you come out with. That only counts if median average wage rises more than inflation something which it has signally failed to do. We made the pie bigger but most people's slice of the pie didn't.
Most people that are over minimum wage but below senior mangagement have seen little to no wage growth compared to an ever increasing cost of living. This is why they rolled the dice and voted out. The current situation just saw them gradually getting poorer and poorer relatively as their wages stagnated and the cost of living kept on rising.
Former SNP MSP jailed for 12 months for domestic abuse
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24173669
Not to mention Derek Mackay
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/shamed-msp-derek-mackay-breaks-21999829
The difference is I am not so pathetic as to state that what some individuals are convicted of represents the millions who vote for their parties or the thousands of their elected officials or their hundreds of thousands of members
James F. Hanley & Ballard MacDonald
I have always been a wanderer
Over land and sea
Yet a moonbeam on the water
Casts a spell o'er me
A vision fair I see
Again I seem to be
Back home again in Indiana
And it seems that I can see
The gleaming candlelight still shining bright
Through the sycamores for me
The new mown hay sends all its fragrance
From fields I used to roam
When I dream
About the moonlight on the Wabash
Then I long for my Indiana home
Fancy paints on memory's canvas
Scenes that we hold dear
We recall them in days after
Clearly they appear
And often times I see
A scene that's dear to me
Back home again in Indiana
And it seems that I can see
The gleaming candlelight still shining bright
Through the sycamores for me
The new mown hay sends all its fragrance
From fields I used to roam
When I dream
About the moonlight on the Wabash
Then I long for my Indiana home
I have to say you are the rudest most aggressive person I have ever encountered on PB
Best to live and let live. Some of HYUFDs ideas are strange, but no need to make mountains out of molehills.
Doesn’t look right when it’s empty.
Wow
You are politically motivated indeed, I have never made one racist comment on here you have an agenda, you are not a conservative, you are rude, uncivilised and aggressive and you bring down the whole tone of this blog
Even if there is a grain of truth in this, it's put across terribly and makes the public think we're nuts.
Keir needs to make it clear these people don't talk for Labour.
https://www.calum-douglas.com/current-book-the-secret-horsepower-race/