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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Step back from your keyboards and drink a cup of tea. Slowly.

    I don't drink tea
    What insanity is this?!
    I don't drink tea either!
    PB is a haven of degenerates!

    Which, in fairness, I think we all knew, but I didn't realise the extent.
    True degeneracy is not abstention from tea. It's putting the milk in the cup first.
    There are many unorthodoxies, but personally I forgive what are, to some, heretical options, so that I may focus on the true enemy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Step back from your keyboards and drink a cup of tea. Slowly.

    I don't drink tea but will have a bovril
    Does that mean it is only half time?
    No idea I don't follow football which is what I assume you are alluding to
    Footie fans ritually drink Bovril and hot water at half time, while eating a meat pie. The main Scots footie discussion board is called 'Pie and Bovril'.
    Ah well I tend to drink bovril because it doesn't contain caffeine
    In useless Sunday information - it was invented in a wee place south of Edinburgh called Roslin. Allegedly famous for its chapel and Da Vinci horse manure [sold in a local farm]. But we know better.

    https://twitter.com/newbattleatwar/status/1010043755725053952
    It's wonderful stuff.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    IanB2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    There’s a website somewhere that you can use to calculate your “Covid age”, which basically takes your current age and adds years to it for a variety of health and lifestyle factors.
    probably is and I will admit I didnt look for one. It seemed common sense to me that a millionaire of 80 having the best of private health care and ability to isolate was less at risk than a 40 year old homeless person
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Step back from your keyboards and drink a cup of tea. Slowly.

    I don't drink tea
    What insanity is this?!
    I don't drink tea either!
    PB is a haven of degenerates!

    Which, in fairness, I think we all knew, but I didn't realise the extent.
    True degeneracy is not abstention from tea. It's putting the milk in the cup first.
    I always put the milk in last. Including when I have green tea.
    - add tea
    - add boiling water
    - wait
    - drink tea
    - add milk
    - empty cup into the sink

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    If you are over 80 you are more likely to die of Covid than someone under 40 regardless of socioeconomic status, your body just does not have the strength at that age of someone half their age to fight it off.

    That is a simple medical fact as confirmed by Foxy who is a medic unlike you
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited August 2020
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD. Accusing others of pomposity.

    Wow

    But where would we be without HYUFD to moan about
    I don't mind being moaned at, I don't mind having my political views mocked or attacked, what I do mind is personal abuse
    It doesn’t however seem unreasonable to expect you to disown a Tory member and previous elected representative who does something so terrible as blackmailing a supermarket by making baby food potentially lethal. Coming back with an attack strategy posting completely unrelated allegations about another politician was a pretty shabby response.

    It is a shame that the other party to the ‘debate’ didn’t take the opportunity to show you up by being reasonable in replying.
    I never said he should not have been jailed but you know full well MalcG posted it just to attack Tories, individuals are responsible for their actions, not their family, not their friends and not their political party
    But the party which people join reflects their morality and their aspirations. For instance, if yi believe that the English should always dominate, or if you fancy the idea of beating up people for voting in a referendum, then of course you are going to be a Tory. See? It's a personal moral decision. Like putting razor blades in babt food.
    The English do not have their own parliament unlike the Scots, the Scots also voted to stay in the UK in 2014 in a 'once in a generation referendum.'

    I know Scottish National Party supporters think all English Tories are evil but that just says everything about them and their Nationalism
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    If you are over 80 you are more likely to die of Covid than someone under 40 regardless of socioeconomic status, your body just does not have the strength at that age of someone half their age to fight it off.

    That is a simple medical fact as confirmed by Foxy who is a medic unlike you
    Foxy hasnt ever mentioned the homeless don't put words in his mouth he hasn't uttered.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    I don’t trust anyone who drinks tea with milk to be honest. Why ruin a beautiful drink with bovine breast excretion?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited August 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    There’s a website somewhere that you can use to calculate your “Covid age”, which basically takes your current age and adds years to it for a variety of health and lifestyle factors.
    probably is and I will admit I didnt look for one. It seemed common sense to me that a millionaire of 80 having the best of private health care and ability to isolate was less at risk than a 40 year old homeless person
    That would depend upon whether the millionaire had used his or her money to lead a healthy lifestyle or a life of excess and indulgence. And, equally, on the fitness and state of health of the homeless person.
  • *Needs to say something controversial*
  • You know what, I really don't like tea
  • When's the ban?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Pagan2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    There’s a website somewhere that you can use to calculate your “Covid age”, which basically takes your current age and adds years to it for a variety of health and lifestyle factors.
    probably is and I will admit I didnt look for one. It seemed common sense to me that a millionaire of 80 having the best of private health care and ability to isolate was less at risk than a 40 year old homeless person
    You are mixing two different things here, the 80 year old millionaire is far less likely to contract the bug if he follows the rules but if he gets infected is more likely to die
  • One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited August 2020
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD. Accusing others of pomposity.

    Wow

    But where would we be without HYUFD to moan about
    I don't mind being moaned at, I don't mind having my political views mocked or attacked, what I do mind is personal abuse
    It doesn’t however seem unreasonable to expect you to disown a Tory member and previous elected representative who does something so terrible as blackmailing a supermarket by making baby food potentially lethal. Coming back with an attack strategy posting completely unrelated allegations about another politician was a pretty shabby response.

    It is a shame that the other party to the ‘debate’ didn’t take the opportunity to show you up by being reasonable in replying.
    I never said he should not have been jailed but you know full well MalcG posted it just to attack Tories as he made clear with the comments he added alongside it, individuals are responsible for their actions, not their family, not their friends and not their political party
    Of course. With the caveat that if there is a pattern or string of incidents uncovered in a particular party, one should reasonably ask what it is about that party that is attracting such people in the first place.

    The Scottish baby food maniac is surely a one off.

    I do however foresee that by the end of this parliament we could be looking at a string of favours/cronyism/sleaze/corruption cases involving Tory Ministers and MPs that would remind us of the dog days of Major’s government.
    It turns out the man in question, Nigel Wright actually defected from the Tories to UKIP over 10 years ago and was UKIP parliamentary candidate in Brigg and Goole in 2010.

    Nothing mentioned about him asking to return to the Tories or being allowed back in since and rightly so.

    https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/tesco-baby-food-blackmail-farmer-4446664
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Whilst on the way to the Golf Dinner, The Commissioner was stopped by The Garda, whilst using a mobile phone whilst driving.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1297629847141982213

    Someone might be looking for a new job tonight.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    IanB2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    There’s a website somewhere that you can use to calculate your “Covid age”, which basically takes your current age and adds years to it for a variety of health and lifestyle factors.
    probably is and I will admit I didnt look for one. It seemed common sense to me that a millionaire of 80 having the best of private health care and ability to isolate was less at risk than a 40 year old homeless person
    That would depend upon whether the millionaire had used his or her money to lead a healthy lifestyle or a life of excess and indulgence. And, equally, on the fitness and state of health of the homeless person.
    While true we are talking averages here. I doubt the average 40 year old homeless person hasn't crippled themselves with drink and drugs, the average homeless person also lacks the resources to isolate to avoid catching it in the first place.

    Foxy's statements as a medic was the average 40 year old against the average 80 year old. The one that HYUFD misrepresents. However if Foxy comes on and says I am wrong then I will accept his expert opinion
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD. Accusing others of pomposity.

    Wow

    But where would we be without HYUFD to moan about
    I don't mind being moaned at, I don't mind having my political views mocked or attacked, what I do mind is personal abuse
    It doesn’t however seem unreasonable to expect you to disown a Tory member and previous elected representative who does something so terrible as blackmailing a supermarket by making baby food potentially lethal. Coming back with an attack strategy posting completely unrelated allegations about another politician was a pretty shabby response.

    It is a shame that the other party to the ‘debate’ didn’t take the opportunity to show you up by being reasonable in replying.
    I never said he should not have been jailed but you know full well MalcG posted it just to attack Tories, individuals are responsible for their actions, not their family, not their friends and not their political party
    But the party which people join reflects their morality and their aspirations. For instance, if yi believe that the English should always dominate, or if you fancy the idea of beating up people for voting in a referendum, then of course you are going to be a Tory. See? It's a personal moral decision. Like putting razor blades in babt food.
    The English do not have their own parliament unlike the Scots, the Scots also voted to stay in the UK in 2014 in a 'once in a generation referendum.'

    I know Scottish National Party supporters think all English Tories are evil but that just says everything about them and their Nationalism
    Are you saying half of Scots think all English Tories are evil and that just says everything about them and their Nationalism?

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1284842049708199936?s=20
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Step back from your keyboards and drink a cup of tea. Slowly.

    I don't drink tea
    What insanity is this?!
    I don't drink tea either!
    PB is a haven of degenerates!

    Which, in fairness, I think we all knew, but I didn't realise the extent.
    True degeneracy is not abstention from tea. It's putting the milk in the cup first.
    I always put the milk in last. Including when I have green tea.
    It's a class thing innit? Putting the milk in first was a habit adopted by people to protect their cups from the hot tea because their china wasn't of a very high quality. Not putting the milk in first then becomes a mark of affluence and good taste.

    Personally I think now we've all got cups that don't break (and cups are cheap and widely available), milk in after has to be the way, so you can put it in gradually and get the quantity right according to colour. You can't do that if you've already added it.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    IanB2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    There’s a website somewhere that you can use to calculate your “Covid age”, which basically takes your current age and adds years to it for a variety of health and lifestyle factors.
    I dare say there are a number of such things around, but this looks plausible:

    https://alama.org.uk/covid-19-medical-risk-assessment/

    In short, you start with your true age if you are male or true age minus five years if you are female, and then start adding on all the risk factors.

    A 45 year old morbidly obese black man with severe asthma thus has a Covid age of 79.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Step back from your keyboards and drink a cup of tea. Slowly.

    I don't drink tea
    What insanity is this?!
    I don't drink tea either!
    PB is a haven of degenerates!

    Which, in fairness, I think we all knew, but I didn't realise the extent.
    True degeneracy is not abstention from tea. It's putting the milk in the cup first.
    I always put the milk in last. Including when I have green tea.
    It's a class thing innit? Putting the milk in first was a habit adopted by people to protect their cups from the hot tea because their china wasn't of a very high quality. Not putting the milk in first then becomes a mark of affluence and good taste.

    Personally I think now we've all got cups that don't break (and cups are cheap and widely available), milk in after has to be the way, so you can put it in gradually and get the quantity right according to colour. You can't do that if you've already added it.
    Horrible drink can’t stand the smell of it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    If you are over 80 you are more likely to die of Covid than someone under 40 regardless of socioeconomic status, your body just does not have the strength at that age of someone half their age to fight it off.

    That is a simple medical fact as confirmed by Foxy who is a medic unlike you
    That depends. If the 80-year old is female, their Covid age is 75.

    A 40-year old man adds to their Covid age up to 7 years depending on their ethnicity, up to 18 years for obesity, up to 21 years for heart trouble and up to 14 years for respiratory trouble, up to 26 years for diabetes, up to 36 years for kidney disease, up to 28 years for cancer, etc.

    It isn’t that difficult to conjure up a set of circumstances where your generalisation wouldn’t apply in a particular instance.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    geoffw said:

    Step back from your keyboards and drink a cup of tea. Slowly.

    I don't drink tea
    What insanity is this?!
    I don't drink tea either!
    PB is a haven of degenerates!

    Which, in fairness, I think we all knew, but I didn't realise the extent.
    True degeneracy is not abstention from tea. It's putting the milk in the cup first.
    I always put the milk in last. Including when I have green tea.
    It's a class thing innit? Putting the milk in first was a habit adopted by people to protect their cups from the hot tea because their china wasn't of a very high quality. Not putting the milk in first then becomes a mark of affluence and good taste.

    Personally I think now we've all got cups that don't break (and cups are cheap and widely available), milk in after has to be the way, so you can put it in gradually and get the quantity right according to colour. You can't do that if you've already added it.
    Horrible drink can’t stand the smell of it.
    It's one of life's wonderful comforts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD. Accusing others of pomposity.

    Wow

    But where would we be without HYUFD to moan about
    I don't mind being moaned at, I don't mind having my political views mocked or attacked, what I do mind is personal abuse
    It doesn’t however seem unreasonable to expect you to disown a Tory member and previous elected representative who does something so terrible as blackmailing a supermarket by making baby food potentially lethal. Coming back with an attack strategy posting completely unrelated allegations about another politician was a pretty shabby response.

    It is a shame that the other party to the ‘debate’ didn’t take the opportunity to show you up by being reasonable in replying.
    I never said he should not have been jailed but you know full well MalcG posted it just to attack Tories, individuals are responsible for their actions, not their family, not their friends and not their political party
    But the party which people join reflects their morality and their aspirations. For instance, if yi believe that the English should always dominate, or if you fancy the idea of beating up people for voting in a referendum, then of course you are going to be a Tory. See? It's a personal moral decision. Like putting razor blades in babt food.
    The English do not have their own parliament unlike the Scots, the Scots also voted to stay in the UK in 2014 in a 'once in a generation referendum.'

    I know Scottish National Party supporters think all English Tories are evil but that just says everything about them and their Nationalism
    Are you saying half of Scots think all English Tories are evil and that just says everything about them and their Nationalism?

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1284842049708199936?s=20
    The SNP core vote certainly, that is the 37% that still voted for them even in 2017 and voted for them pre 2014, not swing voters some of whom are lending them their vote now
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
  • Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Are you a Labour member mate?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    If you are over 80 you are more likely to die of Covid than someone under 40 regardless of socioeconomic status, your body just does not have the strength at that age of someone half their age to fight it off.

    That is a simple medical fact as confirmed by Foxy who is a medic unlike you
    That depends. If the 80-year old is female, their Covid age is 75.

    A 40-year old man adds to their Covid age up to 7 years depending on their ethnicity, up to 18 years for obesity, up to 21 years for heart trouble and up to 14 years for respiratory trouble, up to 26 years for diabetes, up to 36 years for kidney disease, up to 28 years for cancer, etc.

    It isn’t that difficult to conjure up a set of circumstances where your generalisation wouldn’t apply in a particular instance.
    So basically with the exception of a non white, very obese, man with heart failure and diabetes or cancer I was right
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD. Accusing others of pomposity.

    Wow

    But where would we be without HYUFD to moan about
    I don't mind being moaned at, I don't mind having my political views mocked or attacked, what I do mind is personal abuse
    It doesn’t however seem unreasonable to expect you to disown a Tory member and previous elected representative who does something so terrible as blackmailing a supermarket by making baby food potentially lethal. Coming back with an attack strategy posting completely unrelated allegations about another politician was a pretty shabby response.

    It is a shame that the other party to the ‘debate’ didn’t take the opportunity to show you up by being reasonable in replying.
    I never said he should not have been jailed but you know full well MalcG posted it just to attack Tories, individuals are responsible for their actions, not their family, not their friends and not their political party
    But the party which people join reflects their morality and their aspirations. For instance, if yi believe that the English should always dominate, or if you fancy the idea of beating up people for voting in a referendum, then of course you are going to be a Tory. See? It's a personal moral decision. Like putting razor blades in babt food.
    The English do not have their own parliament unlike the Scots, the Scots also voted to stay in the UK in 2014 in a 'once in a generation referendum.'

    I know Scottish National Party supporters think all English Tories are evil but that just says everything about them and their Nationalism
    Whoi said anything about the SNP?

    Who said anything about Scotland, even?

    Unless you want to do a Catalonia in Scotland. Which would be really nasty, yet - copme to think of it - you keep talking about it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited August 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    If you are over 80 you are more likely to die of Covid than someone under 40 regardless of socioeconomic status, your body just does not have the strength at that age of someone half their age to fight it off.

    That is a simple medical fact as confirmed by Foxy who is a medic unlike you
    That depends. If the 80-year old is female, their Covid age is 75.

    A 40-year old man adds to their Covid age up to 7 years depending on their ethnicity, up to 18 years for obesity, up to 21 years for heart trouble and up to 14 years for respiratory trouble, up to 26 years for diabetes, up to 36 years for kidney disease, up to 28 years for cancer, etc.

    It isn’t that difficult to conjure up a set of circumstances where your generalisation wouldn’t apply in a particular instance.
    So basically with the exception of a non white, very obese, man with heart failure and diabetes or cancer I was right
    No he didnt say that, he gave you an example as usual you try and take something someone says and extrapolate it. Lets wait for dr foxy to opine
  • When I drink my tea I first put the milk in.

    Then I add the espresso.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Are you a Labour member mate?
    No, whY?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    So if it is OK to drop a slice of lemon in your tea, how about a slice of pineapple?
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Are you a Labour member mate?
    No, whY?
    Was wondering why HYUFD would blame you for it unless you were in Labour :)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Are you a Labour member mate?
    No, whY?
    Was wondering why HYUFD would blame you for it unless you were in Labour :)

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Are you a Labour member mate?
    No, whY?
    Was wondering why HYUFD would blame you for it unless you were in Labour :)
    Oh, I see, thanks. He was going on about it as if it was my fault personally. Or at least the Scots.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    I don’t trust anyone who drinks tea with milk to be honest. Why ruin a beautiful drink with bovine breast excretion?

    Congratulations on your elevation to CEO of the Milk Marketing Board!
  • Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    Well I am insulted even if nobody else is.
    Me too. I've become more left wing as I grow older.
    I am sure this is said every generation but I do think unless serious work is done to reduce the average age of home ownership, the Tories will continue to lose badly in the younger age group.

    Of course if we came out to vote that might help too
    We had a long conversation on this the other day but I agree with you this is the most important issue.

    Where I disagree with you is I think the Tories are working hard on the issue - and that it is the reason why they are winning seats across the North as a result. I also think its why they're going backwards in London, as London is the one part of the country where this is getting worse not better.

    If current trends in home ownership continue it wouldn't surprise me if formerly safe Tory London seats turn to Labour . . . and that formerly safe Labour seats in the "red wall" become safer Tory seats.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    The emojis are indeed clapping, it's like giving a round of applause. Very common for the young to use on Instagram and so on

    Thank you! They made me think of holothurians or sea squirts somehow ...
    So it's actually Horse pointing out that he is far younger than most of us :smiley:
    the old quote about if you arent left wing when young you have no heart, if you aren't right wing when you get older you have no brain comes to mind
    I used to be told age taught you manners
    Age taught me manners it also taught me that being polite did you no favours with certain types of people and no not including you in that number as it happens before you wonder
    I think you need to lookup the definition of polite.

    Perhaps you could use the Internet, or a book if the former is too complicated for you
    I am impolite to two people precisely here, you and hyufd....you because you started it by calling me a racist for saying I didnt object to the quantity of immigrants but the quality. HYUFD because so much of what he says is repugnant which started when he stated that an 80 year old millionaire was more likely to die of covid that a 40 year old homeless person. I havent been rude to you since though you have been to me on several occasions and I didn't react to it.

    Before lecturing me on politeness maybe take a look at yourself, was only the other night you called me twat and c**t and I didnt react
    Even Foxy has confirmed age is the main factor in terms of Covid death rate, particularly for over 80s and he is a medic, so my comment was factually correct. That was not a comment against the need to tackle homelessness, just a fact
    Your comment was both factually correct and totally untrue.Yes in the main the majority of people affected were over 80. However that breaks down when you look at people already in parlous life conditions. You compared people who live normal lives with a life expectancy of 80+ years to people who have a life expectancy of 44 years.

    A 40 year old homeless person is the equivalent of an 80 year old in terms of comorbidities. Typical use of stats rather than looking at the actuality, I have no doubt you did it because you don't care about those homeless people.
    If you are over 80 you are more likely to die of Covid than someone under 40 regardless of socioeconomic status, your body just does not have the strength at that age of someone half their age to fight it off.

    That is a simple medical fact as confirmed by Foxy who is a medic unlike you
    That depends. If the 80-year old is female, their Covid age is 75.

    A 40-year old man adds to their Covid age up to 7 years depending on their ethnicity, up to 18 years for obesity, up to 21 years for heart trouble and up to 14 years for respiratory trouble, up to 26 years for diabetes, up to 36 years for kidney disease, up to 28 years for cancer, etc.

    It isn’t that difficult to conjure up a set of circumstances where your generalisation wouldn’t apply in a particular instance.
    So basically with the exception of a non white, very obese, man with heart failure and diabetes or cancer I was right
    Someone with such a grasp of figurework such as yourself can surely see some other possibilities?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,707

    When I drink my tea I first put the milk in.

    Then I add the espresso.

    Then whipped cream and cocoa powder?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    It's a pointless debate since federalism ain't happening - neither Johnson, Starmer nor any of their successors wants to choose between being UK Prime Minister and English First Minister. They want to play with all the toys.

    Consequently, an English Parliament only happens by default, i.e. when the whole of the rest of the British state has fallen off.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878

    I don’t trust anyone who drinks tea with milk to be honest. Why ruin a beautiful drink with bovine breast excretion?

    Congratulations on your elevation to CEO of the Milk Marketing Board!
    There is still a milk marketing board? Never saw the point everyone knows about milk and if they want to drink it or not.
  • One advantage of lockdown is I haven't drank a cup of tea in about 7 months. The only time I drink the stuff is when I visit my grandparents, whom I miss seeing, who offer a cup of tea when we visit and I'm too polite to say I'd prefer coffee.
  • When I drink my tea I first put the milk in.

    Then I add the espresso.

    Then whipped cream and cocoa powder?
    Cocoa powder yes, no cream for me thanks.
  • Pagan2 said:

    I don’t trust anyone who drinks tea with milk to be honest. Why ruin a beautiful drink with bovine breast excretion?

    Congratulations on your elevation to CEO of the Milk Marketing Board!
    There is still a milk marketing board? Never saw the point everyone knows about milk and if they want to drink it or not.
    I thought the point was that they put Accrington Stanley on the map.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Are you a Labour member mate?
    No, whY?
    Was wondering why HYUFD would blame you for it unless you were in Labour :)

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Are you a Labour member mate?
    No, whY?
    Was wondering why HYUFD would blame you for it unless you were in Labour :)
    Oh, I see, thanks. He was going on about it as if it was my fault personally. Or at least the Scots.
    He does that
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    Surely you should have some empathy, wasn't long ago you were that woman in terms of your beliefs in jeremy corbyn. You got better she is merely taking longer
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited August 2020

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    It's a pointless debate since federalism ain't happening - neither Johnson, Starmer nor any of their successors wants to choose between being UK Prime Minister and English First Minister. They want to play with all the toys.

    Consequently, an English Parliament only happens by default, i.e. when the whole of the rest of the British state has fallen off.
    A pity
  • This woman is nuts

    I must say I'm impressed how far you've come in having the scales fall off your eyes on the last Labour leadership in the past nine months.

    Hopefully if you ever feel the benefits of housing reforms we might continue your journey from far-left, to left across all the way to the dark side. We have cookies.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Isn't she Corbyn's current squeeze? OK, that in itself is madness enough.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    But this is where Labour could really make a difference in terms of proposition. Hard against Independence, hard against the SNP but pro-federalism including for the English. It's a brilliant idea.

    I am disappointed Starmer has not put more meat on the bones since the leadership campaign
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    edited August 2020
    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
  • She should know better than anyone . . . though she was if I recall correctly particularly graceless in defeat at her count.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    My mate saw Laura Pidcock on Arran the other week. She was buying ice cream. That is all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    So if it is OK to drop a slice of lemon in your tea, how about a slice of pineapple?

    *vomits*
    I love this stuff, it's great fun. Not even being beaten dents their confidence in his popularity, and the boundless arrogance that only his way is the path to a better world remains.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    But this is where Labour could really make a difference in terms of proposition. Hard against Independence, hard against the SNP but pro-federalism including for the English. It's a brilliant idea.

    I am disappointed Starmer has not put more meat on the bones since the leadership campaign
    Because until he comes out and says differently then labours federalism plans will be believed to be the regional assembly plan which is a non starter for a lot of the english
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    So if it is OK to drop a slice of lemon in your tea, how about a slice of pineapple?

    Hawaiian tea?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_xP said:

    During times like elections and in their immediate aftermath papers become more partisan - during midterms which is what we are now they become more critical. Its a natural process that has gone on for as long as I've been alive at the very least and probably much, much longer.

    LOL

    I'll wait while you rewrite history again to try and support your wildly inaccurate assertion
    I'm not rewriting history. We don't live in the USSR with Pravda, in our free market the papers know what sells and that is bad news.

    History is on my side. All through history papers of all colours have attacked governments because that is what sells. Bad news sells and anger sells more than anything else for the Mail.

    But if you think you could name even one, just one, full Parliamentary period ever where the Mail has never given the government a bad front page I bet you we could find one from that Parliament. Go ahead, name one please - but I won't be holding my breath because I know you're full of shit.
    1944-1945?
  • To be fair to Laura Pidcock across the country there probably are "hundreds of thousands of people who still have deep and unwavering respect for what he was and still is trying to achieve". Unfortunately for her roughly 14 million people were horrified at what he was trying to achieve and voted to prevent it.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    She's actually right. It's just that she neglects to mention that there are a few hundred thousand hard leftists amongst a total electorate of approximately 47.6 million. That's all.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    It's a pointless debate since federalism ain't happening - neither Johnson, Starmer nor any of their successors wants to choose between being UK Prime Minister and English First Minister. They want to play with all the toys.

    Consequently, an English Parliament only happens by default, i.e. when the whole of the rest of the British state has fallen off.
    A pity
    I somehow think it would only work with one for London and one for ROE. It would obviously cause its own frictions, but I think in the wider context, it would work better.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020
    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    During times like elections and in their immediate aftermath papers become more partisan - during midterms which is what we are now they become more critical. Its a natural process that has gone on for as long as I've been alive at the very least and probably much, much longer.

    LOL

    I'll wait while you rewrite history again to try and support your wildly inaccurate assertion
    I'm not rewriting history. We don't live in the USSR with Pravda, in our free market the papers know what sells and that is bad news.

    History is on my side. All through history papers of all colours have attacked governments because that is what sells. Bad news sells and anger sells more than anything else for the Mail.

    But if you think you could name even one, just one, full Parliamentary period ever where the Mail has never given the government a bad front page I bet you we could find one from that Parliament. Go ahead, name one please - but I won't be holding my breath because I know you're full of shit.
    1944-1945?
    Not a normal comparison.

    Though wasn't that Parliament from 1935-1945? I suspect that there will have been some very critical front pages within that decade.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    My mate saw Laura Pidcock on Arran the other week. She was buying ice cream. That is all.
    After December 12th, are you sure she wasn't selling the stuff?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
  • Labour is very fortunate Pidcock lost her seat because she would likely have won the leadership otherwise and that would have lead to Milne and others staying on
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    But this is where Labour could really make a difference in terms of proposition. Hard against Independence, hard against the SNP but pro-federalism including for the English. It's a brilliant idea.

    I am disappointed Starmer has not put more meat on the bones since the leadership campaign
    I can't see how this would win a single vote in England. Not even with hand-wringers, never mind working class voters in the north.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    But this is where Labour could really make a difference in terms of proposition. Hard against Independence, hard against the SNP but pro-federalism including for the English. It's a brilliant idea.

    I am disappointed Starmer has not put more meat on the bones since the leadership campaign
    Have you got a definition for pre-federalism including for the English though?

    Does it mean a full English Parliament with the full law making powers and total devolved control over the NHS, education to match the Scottish one? With an English First Minister?

    Or does it mean slightly beefed up regional governments but nothing like Scotland's law making powers?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    So if it is OK to drop a slice of lemon in your tea, how about a slice of pineapple?

    I did have poneapple beer last night. It was rather good.

    https://thornbridgebrewery.co.uk/beer/pineapple-halcyon/
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    My mate saw Laura Pidcock on Arran the other week. She was buying ice cream. That is all.
    Wasn't a PBer in Arran the other week?

    *strokes chin*
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited August 2020

    She's actually right. It's just that she neglects to mention that there are a few hundred thousand hard leftists amongst a total electorate of approximately 47.6 million. That's all.
    She doesn't neglect to mention them, she doesn't think the existence of anyone beyond the few hundred thousand is of any consequence. What are the people for but to serve the party vanguard?

    For their own good of course.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    But this is where Labour could really make a difference in terms of proposition. Hard against Independence, hard against the SNP but pro-federalism including for the English. It's a brilliant idea.

    I am disappointed Starmer has not put more meat on the bones since the leadership campaign
    I can't see how this would win a single vote in England. Not even with hand-wringers, never mind working class voters in the north.
    I'd vote for an English Parliament. Of course England should control its own devolved subjects just like every other country.

    I wouldn't vote for Labour, but that's a different issue. Others might - and it gets rid of the SNP issue Milliband faced somewhat.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
    Well the english think so, I dont know any cornish people that do.

    In dna surveys we are genetically distinct from those of devon, we have our own language , flag, anthem. The cornish regard ourselves very much as a nation within the uk. Just because we havent rebelled for a few hundred years doesn't make us english
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    But this is where Labour could really make a difference in terms of proposition. Hard against Independence, hard against the SNP but pro-federalism including for the English. It's a brilliant idea.

    I am disappointed Starmer has not put more meat on the bones since the leadership campaign
    No hostages to fortune required just yet.

    Why say too much about anything when Johnson's Government are doing all the talking with their feet in their mouths?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    But this is where Labour could really make a difference in terms of proposition. Hard against Independence, hard against the SNP but pro-federalism including for the English. It's a brilliant idea.

    I am disappointed Starmer has not put more meat on the bones since the leadership campaign
    I can't see how this would win a single vote in England. Not even with hand-wringers, never mind working class voters in the north.
    The fate of Labour’s regional government proposals suggest that people don’t really want an extra tier of government. Boris has therefore identified the way in which it can be done, save for not yet coming up with a way to drive the Welsh away as well.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited August 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
    Well the english think so, I dont know any cornish people that do.
    None? Sounds incredibly implausible, or else politics in the penninsula would be very very different to what it is and has been.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Why are pubs with horse brasses, cricket and Sandy Denny bound up with Britishness?

    I'm sure I could I could come up with a list of beautiful aspects of Englishness (it may even include Sandy Denny), but seeing as we're aw different, you may disagree with it.
  • You look mistaken there. Is he not SNP
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
    Well the english think so, I dont know any cornish people that do.

    In dna surveys we are genetically distinct from those of devon, we have our own language , flag, anthem. The cornish regard ourselves very much as a nation within the uk. Just because we havent rebelled for a few hundred years doesn't make us english
    Didn't Nick Clegg introduce legislation to acknowledge the nation status of Cornwall?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
    Well the english think so, I dont know any cornish people that do.
    None? Sounds incredibly implausible, or else politics in the penninsula would be very very different to what it is and has been.
    Yes none is an exaggeration we do have immigrants. Most cornish born and bred though are immensely proud of being cornish not english. That doesn't mean they want to be separate merely they are cornish then british. The view that cornwall was part of england is something very much put forward by the english not the cornish.

    Cornwall has always been quite different politically which is why we had so many lib dem mps when the rest of the country didnt. It is only post brexit we stopped electing them
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
    Well the english think so, I dont know any cornish people that do.
    None? Sounds incredibly implausible, or else politics in the penninsula would be very very different to what it is and has been.
    Yes none is an exaggeration we do have immigrants. Most cornish born and bred though are immensely proud of being cornish not english. That doesn't mean they want to be separate merely they are cornish then british. The view that cornwall was part of england is something very much put forward by the english not the cornish.

    Cornwall has always been quite different politically which is why we had so many lib dem mps when the rest of the country didnt. It is only post brexit we stopped electing them
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmtqn8wANLY
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
    Well the english think so, I dont know any cornish people that do.

    In dna surveys we are genetically distinct from those of devon, we have our own language , flag, anthem. The cornish regard ourselves very much as a nation within the uk. Just because we havent rebelled for a few hundred years doesn't make us english
    It does in the sense that we can all have multiple identities and rub along fairly well. I hate to break this to you, but you're not only English, you're also British, United Kingdomish, and European. Not sure why a wonderful identity like being Cornish has to come at the expense of being English. Or (tangentially) why so many think identifying as Scottish means you have to reject Britishness.

    It sometimes amuses me that if Scotland were to separate, everyone in Scotland would be every bit as British as they were before. Wonder if we gently told them that, they'd stop bothering with the whole cutting the country in half thing.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited August 2020
    So speaks someone who has spent her every waking hour since 3rd April 2020 seeking to undermine the widely respected and genuinely popular leader of the party to which she notionally belongs.

    The upside of all this is that I think there's a backlash coming from Labour members who would like to regard themselves on the left of the party but who are heartily sick and tired of the infantile factionalism of the likes of Pidcock and yearn for a degree of unity.

  • Lib Dem revival in the SW on the cards? Or are they doomed
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    You look mistaken there. Is he not SNP
    He is.

    The Brexity end, so maybe that's caused confusion.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,707

    You look mistaken there. Is he not SNP
    Oops.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    Would the scots support federalism with an english parliament though? We have heard several times that the disparity in size would be an issue.
    So long as Scotland was completely autonomous, I don’t see why not.

    Of course they may prefer full independence anyway, but gotta roll the dice.
    But this is where Labour could really make a difference in terms of proposition. Hard against Independence, hard against the SNP but pro-federalism including for the English. It's a brilliant idea.

    I am disappointed Starmer has not put more meat on the bones since the leadership campaign
    Have you got a definition for pre-federalism including for the English though?

    Does it mean a full English Parliament with the full law making powers and total devolved control over the NHS, education to match the Scottish one? With an English First Minister?

    Or does it mean slightly beefed up regional governments but nothing like Scotland's law making powers?
    There's a couple of things going on.

    One is the fear of unfair / asymmetric devolution. That doesn't have to be a problem in practice; the Spanish approach shows that you can devolve more powers and responsibilities to different areas, depending on how distinct they are. So Catalunya / Basque Country are very autonomous, Galicia / Andalusia are less so, the more core bits of Spain less so still. Messy in theory, but is broadly works on a day-to-day basis.

    The other problem is that England is a big place- probably too big to work as a single unit. (I've just finished a Romford > Yorkshire > Romford round trip; they're both English, but they're also different). And some of the subdivisions would be pretty arbitrary (especially the further south and east you go). But it's doable.

    Trouble is the winner takes all culture we have in UK politics.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Why are pubs with horse brasses, cricket and Sandy Denny bound up with Britishness?

    I'm sure I could I could come up with a list of beautiful aspects of Englishness (it may even include Sandy Denny), but seeing as we're aw different, you may disagree with it.
    I didn't say those were - I said Englishness in general is. Because England has had many years being a shared culture. Many of our cultural icons are not English but British. Personally I love that, I'm not complaining - it's an observation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Lib Dem revival in the SW on the cards? Or are they doomed

    They did not recover as much as they would have hoped in many areas of the SW in 2019, and have not even come second in many seats there since 2010, which should be a worry. However, with Labour not likely to make many inroads there with little local presence, the next elections should be interesting.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited August 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
    Well the english think so, I dont know any cornish people that do.
    None? Sounds incredibly implausible, or else politics in the penninsula would be very very different to what it is and has been.
    Yes none is an exaggeration we do have immigrants. Most cornish born and bred though are immensely proud of being cornish not english. That doesn't mean they want to be separate merely they are cornish then british. The view that cornwall was part of england is something very much put forward by the english not the cornish.

    Cornwall has always been quite different politically which is why we had so many lib dem mps when the rest of the country didnt. It is only post brexit we stopped electing them
    Cornwall was absorbed into Wessex after the Battle of Hingston Down in 838 and then was part of England from 886 when the House of Wessex produced the first King of the whole of England, Alfred the Great and certainly by 924 when Athelstan was proclaimed the first official King of the English
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    That's a good result for Trump: he won Independents in 2016, but not by that much.

    However... when you go to the detail, you discover it is not a National poll, so the Tweet is incorrect. It is a Battlegrounds Poll, and it's detail is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eHT_l5lsfjvX-VTuA2doFfqaV3QeYZVx/view

    Also, the headline from the poll has Biden with a 52:42 lead, which I struggle to reconcile with the tend point lead for Trump among Independents.

    Last thing: there is some evidence of the enthusiasm gap in the poll. Essentially, 77% of Trump's supporters are enthused, while only about 67% of Biden's are. That could lead to differential turnout. Or it might not.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
    Well the english think so, I dont know any cornish people that do.

    In dna surveys we are genetically distinct from those of devon, we have our own language , flag, anthem. The cornish regard ourselves very much as a nation within the uk. Just because we havent rebelled for a few hundred years doesn't make us english
    It does in the sense that we can all have multiple identities and rub along fairly well. I hate to break this to you, but you're not only English, you're also British, United Kingdomish, and European. Not sure why a wonderful identity like being Cornish has to come at the expense of being English. Or (tangentially) why so many think identifying as Scottish means you have to reject Britishness.

    It sometimes amuses me that if Scotland were to separate, everyone in Scotland would be every bit as British as they were before. Wonder if we gently told them that, they'd stop bothering with the whole cutting the country in half thing.
    I am british and from the UK. I am not english not more than the scots are or the welsh are. We aren't mainly separatists but we have our own identity. Most of us think of ourselves of cornish then british then ukish we dont think of ourselves as english because we aren't simple as that
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Carnyx said:

    One of the best policies Labour could do is federalism including an English Parliament. Basically no downside and they look more pro-English and patriotic.

    I am surprised the Tories have not implemented it yet

    Exactly. HYUFD is practicxally blaming me for it.
    There's been markedly little enthusiasm on the part of anyone in authority to endorse any kind of national vision for England. One of the things I think some Scots understand little is the extent to which their sense of nationality is actively supported and nurtured and has been for decades. England isn't like that. And you can say that's because English nationalism is all lager louts and footie violence, and it's right that it isn't encouraged, but it's a circular argument. It's only celebrated by those at the fringes *because* it's never been encouraged elsewhere.

    There's something quite beautiful about aspects of Englishness - though it is very bound up in Britishness. Things like pubs with horse brasses, cricket, Sandy Denny etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTl0QpjtLOU
    Its very true and I say that as a non english person. The english have always been derided for celebrating their nation. From Thornberry's contempt for someone flying england flags to the utter despising of celebrating st Georges day. As a cornish person I have never been derided for displaying my flag no celebrating that which makes us different and I feel I can be both cornish and part of the uk.
    Er... If you're Cornish, you are surely English.
    Well the english think so, I dont know any cornish people that do.
    None? Sounds incredibly implausible, or else politics in the penninsula would be very very different to what it is and has been.
    Yes none is an exaggeration we do have immigrants. Most cornish born and bred though are immensely proud of being cornish not english. That doesn't mean they want to be separate merely they are cornish then british. The view that cornwall was part of england is something very much put forward by the english not the cornish.

    Cornwall has always been quite different politically which is why we had so many lib dem mps when the rest of the country didnt. It is only post brexit we stopped electing them
    Cornwall was absorbed into Wessex after the Battle of Hingston Down in 838 and then was part of England from 886 when the House of Wessex produce the first King of the whole of England, Alfred the Great
    Fascinating
  • I'm not sure when emoticons become emojis either but they're definitely called emojis by the young today

    Emojis are there name, that's why. Emoticons are text only, emojis are the image.

    :-) is an emoticon.
    😀 is an emoji.

    When I first started using them we called them smileys not emojis.
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