politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Compulsory face mask wearing – the Brexit divide
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Thank you! That was the story I was thinking of, didn't realise that was the outcome.alex_ said:
It appears they wanted to, but couldn’t.Philip_Thompson said:
No I'm not sure. I just seem to recall Labour demanding they got "their" spot back on a select committee after a defection but I am going off memory and I can't remember who it was.Stuartinromford said:
Are you sure? I think Sarah Wollaston remained chair of the health committee throughout her party meanderings in the last parliament.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed so if this particular committee needs to have a Tory Chair - and if Lewis is no longer a Tory - how can he be the Chair? Just like the TIGger I'm pretty sure from memory lost a committee position.alex_ said:
Whilst not disputing the principle behind your point, I thought that committee composition was still predetermined in line with party composition in the Commons? Otherwise what’s to stop the Govt just putting 100% majority party MPs on every committee? The chairmanships are more mixed, with the chair of the Public Accounts committee by convention being an Opposition member.NickPalmer said:
Not really - the whole point of Select Committees is that they have a non-partisan culture (which tends to lead to reports splitting any differences) and they aren't supposed to be decided by party vote, though in practice every committee except this one has traditionally had a small majority of Government MPs (this is the exception because security is usually thought too important to depend on government whim). IIRC, committees stay in place throughout the Parliament - or is it the session? - and the Speaker would take a dim view of trying to change that, though obviously a government with a big majority can change anything if it really tries.alex_ said:
There’s not some obscure rule that means that if he’s no longer subject to the Tory whip then he must be replaced?NickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
There was a lot of fun made/criticism of a new Labour MP at the start of the session who made a thing of refusing to vote for “a Tory” campaigning for one of the Committee positions. The point made by critics that she was choosing between Tories, not a Tory and somebody else, and this particular one was actually quite an independent mind who wouldn’t hesitate to ask awkward questions of the Govt if necessary.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-launches-bid-to-purge-independent-group-mps-from-commons-committees
Parties are allocated spots according to House of Commons composition at the start of the Parliament, but once elected committee members appear free to do what they want.0 -
The intelligence committee is supposed to be completely non partisan, and to elect its chair without outside influence. The attempt to instal the risible Grayling entirely deserved such an outcome.Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.12 -
That's an old argument but it doesn't work. If there was a spear with a spike it would discourage you from doing an emergency stop where it was required . . . so lets say a child unexpectedly steps in front of the road then the safest option for the driver would be to run over the child rather than attempting an emergency stop.Toms said:OGH says "This all reminds me of the moves a few decades ago on the wearing of car seat belts being made compulsory which nowadays few find controversial. The objective is the same – to save lives."
Well, it depends on whose lives we want to save---risk compensation you know.
For instance, if instead of an airbag and/or seat belt cars had a spear that would stick the driver if they ran into something or somebody, then I can guarantee they would drive slowly and carefully. I think anyway that car usage in our society is largely perverse and unnatural, flying in the face of a million years of evolution. Instead, therefore, we should do more to protect walkers and, pushing things a bit, cyclists.0 -
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That could cover anything from lobbying the House of Lords to managing an escort service. OR perhaps both at same time?Charles said:
I make a living trading information and solving problems for my friendsLadyG said:
Really? Shit.Charles said:
My Israeli contacts tell me it was opening the schoolsLadyG said:Ominous. But important
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283434043867049985?s=20
Also, I like the way you have "Israeli contacts". It makes me think you are probably linked to Mossad, which is cool0 -
Simply for nominating failing Grayling they deserved this outcome even without any other factors.Nigelb said:
The intelligence committee is supposed to be completely non partisan, and to elect its chair without outside influence. The attempt to instal the risible Grayling entirely deserved such an outcome.Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
I'm not going to be disappointed that failing Grayling lost a vote, I think its hilarious!0 -
Maybe Leave voters are less brainwashed, compliant and ready to accept anything they are told by their rulers?0
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Sounds like a good idea. Will never happen of course.Scott_xP said:0 -
NerysHughes said:
If anyone watches the Sky Covid report on South Africa they will be very glad they live in the UK</blockquot
They are running at 75 deaths per million population
Ours is 664 per million highest of any Nation wit a Population over 12m0 -
They would have to allow for the possibility that they might lose the vote. Backbench Tory MPs are quite rebellious on Security issues at the moment, so I don’t think you could say the outcome was a slam dunk.Scott_xP said:1 -
Sort of like The A Team, but a lone wolf figure without the van, a fear of flying and the welding equipment?Charles said:
I make a living trading information and solving problems for my friendsLadyG said:
Really? Shit.Charles said:
My Israeli contacts tell me it was opening the schoolsLadyG said:Ominous. But important
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283434043867049985?s=20
Also, I like the way you have "Israeli contacts". It makes me think you are probably linked to Mossad, which is cool1 -
No he doesn't.Scott_xP said:
Cummings wants to decant it to York.
And isn't it handy he has a little place near Durham?0 -
Think you are correct on this one. IF government wishes to impose a problematic committee chair THEN it would seem prudent to MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE VOTES before trying to push it though - then failing - then throwing a hissy fit.Nigelb said:
The intelligence committee is supposed to be completely non partisan, and to elect its chair without outside influence. The attempt to instal the risible Grayling entirely deserved such an outcome.Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
This crew give impression they'd be hard pressed to manage a 3-hole outhouse.0 -
A garden bridge over the Ouse will make them feel at home.Benpointer said:
Sounds like a good idea. Will never happen of course.Scott_xP said:0 -
Many of us have been wearing masks for months now. You get used to them, just like you get used to wearing a seat belt. The only reason they weren’t talked about months ago is because there was a massive shortage and they were needed for healthcare workers.Omnium said:
Well rules, restrictions. They're something whereby freedom is slightly curtailed. Wearing a mask clearly isn't something you would do if you were on your own.Richard_Tyndall said:
I must admit I am having real trouble seeing how wearing a mask is a restriction. I know more than a few libertarian minded medical professionals who would not dream of working without wearing a mask and who were quick to adopt them in general day to day interactions long before anyone suggested they should be mandatory.Omnium said:
It's a compelling argument for accepting restrictions, and I think it's reasonable that masks in shops be one of them. Not the other way round though.rcs1000 said:
That is a pretty compelling argument for mask wearing in shops.LadyG said:Ominous. But important
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283434043867049985?s=20
Basically, the argument is a simple one: by accepting slightly more onerous restrictions now, you avoid a hard lock down (either de facto or de jure).
Having a rule that we should all wear seat-belts is silly - it should be blindingly obvious, but us being us, a rule seems necessary.
Masks in shops is apparently somewhat marginal in benefit, but even if it had no benefit at all it might be worth doing anyway just to keep people's attention on the risk (albeit that is now small).
Watching from afar, I’m amazed there’s even a debate going on, just wear masks people.2 -
You’re not going all Ben Carson on us, I hope ... ?rcs1000 said:
I had this argument with my kids (10 and 12 years old) - I said, "if I can be gender fluid, why can't I be species fluid? - why can't I self identify as a dog?"tlg86 said:
I agree with that. The issue today seems to be that today’s “woke” for want of a better word are fighting some very dubious wars in my opinion.matthiasfromhamburg said:
I tend to share your view that "woke" isn't atlg86 said:
If by woke you mean good, then no, it isn't woke. But woke isn't a synonym for good, in my opinion.matthiasfromhamburg said:
I stand corrected.LadyG said:
No. Read the headline from the original source. The author believes what is plainly said:matthiasfromhamburg said:
The headline states that the graphic depicts "Assumptions of Whiteness and White Culture in the USofA".LadyG said:
lol. The source is real. It's been tweeted by thousands of otherskinabalu said:
Please see my reply 6.35 to Pagan.kle4 said:
What does who tweets something have to do with whether the thing tweeted is accurate or not? If it isn't, they are disreputable. If it is, then it doesn't matter whether they have views or interpretations others would not share, since we are not obliged to share the view or interpretation they hold. If their interpretation is suspect or incorrect, that's an entirely separate matter.kinabalu said:
I see the tweeter is the proud author of the following work -LadyG said:Peak Woke?
Truly bizarre
https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1283372233730203651?s=20
THE VAST LEFT WING CONSPIRACY:
The Untold Story of How Democratic Operatives, Eccentric Billionaires, Liberal Activists, and Assorted Celebrities Tried to Bring Down a President - and Why They'll Try Even Harder Next Time.
Unless it's a "2+2=4" type assertion, you should always be cautious about accepting at face value things tweeted by dubious sources with an extremist agenda.
And especially so when - as here - it's a tweet from such a source copied onto here by a poster of similar ilk. When it comes to this think Tommy Lee Jones and Ashley Judd - Double Jeopardy.
https://twitter.com/hrkbenowen/status/1283463753481297920?s=20
Here's the relevant literature from the museum
https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/whiteness
I even went through history and found you the original source, all the way back in 1990, and mad academic Judith H Katz
http://www.cascadia.edu/discover/about/diversity/documents/Some Aspects and Assumptions of White Culture in the United States.pdf
You can thank me later
My guess is that it is predominantly white people who are making these assumptions,
associating things which these people
perceive as virtues, with their own whiteness.
I didn't get the impression that the author shares these assumptions, only that she observed the fact that white people, at least a majority of them, hold these views.
"While different individuals might not practice or accept all of these traits, they are common characteristics of most U.S. White people most of the time."
http://www.cascadia.edu/discover/about/diversity/documents/Some Aspects and Assumptions of White Culture in the United States.pdf
Meanwhile on the infographic, see the greyed out text:
It says all these are "white traditions, attitudes and ways of life" which have been "internalized" by "people of color"
After a second, more thorough look at it, I tend to agree that the author, more or less, does share these assumptions, which does seem to bring her own work into disrepute.
I'm still struggling to identify what she has written as 'woke', though. It really seems to be the opposite of that.
synonym for "morally good" or "logically correct", but I think that "anti-woke" is neither. I think that at the core of what some people like to call "woke", there is a progressive stance that constitutes one side of an argument and has its legitimation.
I think that sixty or eighty years ago, had the term "woke" been around at the time, people from the conservative side of the spectrum would have dismissed the views of Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, and everyone who supported their views, as "woke".
Many people of a conservative persuasion did do so, they just used other expressions back then. Societal progress is a real thing, and the "anti-wokes" of yesteryear are not always considered to have been on the 'right side' of history.
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/newest-darling-of-the-republican-party-compares-same-sex-marriage-to-nambla-bestiality-4efa1e28a22/
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Well seant has already told us that COVID-19 has killed off London. This would nicely bury it six foot under.Benpointer said:
Sounds like a good idea. Will never happen of course.Scott_xP said:0 -
Cant Parliament meet in a castle setting somewhere oop North?rottenborough said:
No he doesn't.Scott_xP said:
Cummings wants to decant it to York.
And isn't it handy he has a little place near Durham?0 -
I have no incentive to spare Lewis’s blushesMexicanpete said:
Bribe is such an unpleasant little word under these circumstances. Incentive is much more attractive.Charles said:1 -
There's not much of a debate. There's a few people stomping their feet and whinging but I don't see much debating going on.Sandpit said:
Many of us have been wearing masks for months now. You get used to them, just like you get used to wearing a seat belt. The only reason they weren’t talked about months ago is because there was a massive shortage and they were needed for healthcare workers.Omnium said:
Well rules, restrictions. They're something whereby freedom is slightly curtailed. Wearing a mask clearly isn't something you would do if you were on your own.Richard_Tyndall said:
I must admit I am having real trouble seeing how wearing a mask is a restriction. I know more than a few libertarian minded medical professionals who would not dream of working without wearing a mask and who were quick to adopt them in general day to day interactions long before anyone suggested they should be mandatory.Omnium said:
It's a compelling argument for accepting restrictions, and I think it's reasonable that masks in shops be one of them. Not the other way round though.rcs1000 said:
That is a pretty compelling argument for mask wearing in shops.LadyG said:Ominous. But important
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283434043867049985?s=20
Basically, the argument is a simple one: by accepting slightly more onerous restrictions now, you avoid a hard lock down (either de facto or de jure).
Having a rule that we should all wear seat-belts is silly - it should be blindingly obvious, but us being us, a rule seems necessary.
Masks in shops is apparently somewhat marginal in benefit, but even if it had no benefit at all it might be worth doing anyway just to keep people's attention on the risk (albeit that is now small).
Watching from afar, I’m amazed there’s even a debate going on, just wear masks people.3 -
So now race and gender are both social constructs, if I decide to identify myself as a black woman, anyone who dares say a bad word about anything I do is sexist and racist.Alistair said:
Yes, it is literally describing the social construct of whiteness.LadyG said:
It says white people "avoid conflict".Foxy said:
I think the meaning of the graphic is that those traits are generally perceived to be associated with whiteness. So despite Nigerians being the most highly qualified of US immigrants, science is associated with whiteness.algarkirk said:Just a comment on the Smithsonian fracas. Try reading Kate Fox 'Watching the English'. In this book she treats English culture to a bit of simple anthropology, as if they are an exotic tribe being observed. It's very popular, and funny too. The Smithsonian is doing a similar thing, though it is much more stereotyped and sharp, so uncomfortable. It reads more like a critical outsider might see a white culture.
The PB critics have included these broad criticisms:
The picture is white supremacist by attributing a range of self evident good qualities to a white culture only.
The picture is racist and anti-white by attributing a rage of doubtful qualities to a white culture.
The picture is racist and anti non-white because it implies every non white lacks a range of self evident good qualities.
It's woke nonsense gone mad.
I doubt if all these can be true. Personally I feel stereotyped by it, which is exactly I think what happens more to other groups than to whites. So I think it is of value.
So white people are peaceful. "Whiteness is peace".
.
Race is a social construct. This mind-blowingly woke idea was arrived at in the mid 1940s.
That’s how it works, right?1 -
He embarrassed the governmentPhilip_Thompson said:
On an unwhipped vote surely?Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.0 -
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Tom Harwood is not a journalist. Stop giving him airtime.Big_G_NorthWales said:1 -
BTW, who selected the Tory members of the committee with such care?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Think you are correct on this one. IF government wishes to impose a problematic committee chair THEN it would seem prudent to MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE VOTES before trying to push it though - then failing - then throwing a hissy fit.Nigelb said:
The intelligence committee is supposed to be completely non partisan, and to elect its chair without outside influence. The attempt to instal the risible Grayling entirely deserved such an outcome.Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
This crew give impression they'd be hard pressed to manage a 3-hole outhouse.0 -
Failing Grayling is so fucking useless he couldn't win a rigged election2
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bigjohnowls said:
You think countries like South Africa are making any serious effort to count?NerysHughes said:If anyone watches the Sky Covid report on South Africa they will be very glad they live in the UK
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There’s a remarkable synergy when you think about those suggestions for a momentSeaShantyIrish2 said:
That could cover anything from lobbying the House of Lords to managing an escort service. OR perhaps both at same time?Charles said:
I make a living trading information and solving problems for my friendsLadyG said:
Really? Shit.Charles said:
My Israeli contacts tell me it was opening the schoolsLadyG said:Ominous. But important
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283434043867049985?s=20
Also, I like the way you have "Israeli contacts". It makes me think you are probably linked to Mossad, which is cool1 -
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283503577902850048
Ok. I smell a dead cat.
Is this all to divert from Grayling?0 -
The Johnson Government shoots itself in the foot ... again.Big_G_NorthWales said:0 -
Is the intelligence committee not different again, though, in terms of its supposed independence from party politics ?NickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.0 -
No, I'm asking my kids to think for themselvesNigelb said:
You’re not going all Ben Carson on us, I hope ... ?rcs1000 said:
I had this argument with my kids (10 and 12 years old) - I said, "if I can be gender fluid, why can't I be species fluid? - why can't I self identify as a dog?"tlg86 said:
I agree with that. The issue today seems to be that today’s “woke” for want of a better word are fighting some very dubious wars in my opinion.matthiasfromhamburg said:
I tend to share your view that "woke" isn't atlg86 said:
If by woke you mean good, then no, it isn't woke. But woke isn't a synonym for good, in my opinion.matthiasfromhamburg said:
I stand corrected.LadyG said:
No. Read the headline from the original source. The author believes what is plainly said:matthiasfromhamburg said:
The headline states that the graphic depicts "Assumptions of Whiteness and White Culture in the USofA".LadyG said:
lol. The source is real. It's been tweeted by thousands of otherskinabalu said:
Please see my reply 6.35 to Pagan.kle4 said:
What does who tweets something have to do with whether the thing tweeted is accurate or not? If it isn't, they are disreputable. If it is, then it doesn't matter whether they have views or interpretations others would not share, since we are not obliged to share the view or interpretation they hold. If their interpretation is suspect or incorrect, that's an entirely separate matter.kinabalu said:
I see the tweeter is the proud author of the following work -LadyG said:Peak Woke?
Truly bizarre
https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1283372233730203651?s=20
THE VAST LEFT WING CONSPIRACY:
The Untold Story of How Democratic Operatives, Eccentric Billionaires, Liberal Activists, and Assorted Celebrities Tried to Bring Down a President - and Why They'll Try Even Harder Next Time.
Unless it's a "2+2=4" type assertion, you should always be cautious about accepting at face value things tweeted by dubious sources with an extremist agenda.
And especially so when - as here - it's a tweet from such a source copied onto here by a poster of similar ilk. When it comes to this think Tommy Lee Jones and Ashley Judd - Double Jeopardy.
https://twitter.com/hrkbenowen/status/1283463753481297920?s=20
Here's the relevant literature from the museum
https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/whiteness
I even went through history and found you the original source, all the way back in 1990, and mad academic Judith H Katz
http://www.cascadia.edu/discover/about/diversity/documents/Some Aspects and Assumptions of White Culture in the United States.pdf
You can thank me later
My guess is that it is predominantly white people who are making these assumptions,
associating things which these people
perceive as virtues, with their own whiteness.
I didn't get the impression that the author shares these assumptions, only that she observed the fact that white people, at least a majority of them, hold these views.
"While different individuals might not practice or accept all of these traits, they are common characteristics of most U.S. White people most of the time."
http://www.cascadia.edu/discover/about/diversity/documents/Some Aspects and Assumptions of White Culture in the United States.pdf
Meanwhile on the infographic, see the greyed out text:
It says all these are "white traditions, attitudes and ways of life" which have been "internalized" by "people of color"
After a second, more thorough look at it, I tend to agree that the author, more or less, does share these assumptions, which does seem to bring her own work into disrepute.
I'm still struggling to identify what she has written as 'woke', though. It really seems to be the opposite of that.
synonym for "morally good" or "logically correct", but I think that "anti-woke" is neither. I think that at the core of what some people like to call "woke", there is a progressive stance that constitutes one side of an argument and has its legitimation.
I think that sixty or eighty years ago, had the term "woke" been around at the time, people from the conservative side of the spectrum would have dismissed the views of Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, and everyone who supported their views, as "woke".
Many people of a conservative persuasion did do so, they just used other expressions back then. Societal progress is a real thing, and the "anti-wokes" of yesteryear are not always considered to have been on the 'right side' of history.
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/newest-darling-of-the-republican-party-compares-same-sex-marriage-to-nambla-bestiality-4efa1e28a22/
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TheRichard_Tyndall said:
The Johnson Government shoots itself in the foot ... again.Big_G_NorthWales said:JohnsonCummings Government shoots itself in the foot ... again.
[Corrected for you]
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If Parliament moved to York, I reckon a large part of Yorkshire would feel compelled to decant to London.Mexicanpete said:
A garden bridge over the Ouse will make them feel at home.Benpointer said:
Sounds like a good idea. Will never happen of course.Scott_xP said:0 -
Yep its an excellent idea. Second city of England since the Roman period. And much nicer than London of course. My only fear is that after 6 years, like a bus full of Millwall fans on a trip to Margate, they will have wrecked the place.Benpointer said:
Sounds like a good idea. Will never happen of course.Scott_xP said:0 -
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Not an endorsement that a company will want if Ghislaine Maxwell ever decides to spill the beans.rottenborough said:0 -
Definitely not a lone wolf.Mexicanpete said:
Sort of like The A Team, but a lone wolf figure without the van, a fear of flying and the welding equipment?Charles said:
I make a living trading information and solving problems for my friendsLadyG said:
Really? Shit.Charles said:
My Israeli contacts tell me it was opening the schoolsLadyG said:Ominous. But important
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283434043867049985?s=20
Also, I like the way you have "Israeli contacts". It makes me think you are probably linked to Mossad, which is cool
Classic example at the moment... solving a problem for a friend and getting paid by someone else for doing so0 -
Johnson does that most days of the week.Charles said:
He embarrassed the governmentPhilip_Thompson said:
On an unwhipped vote surely?Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.0 -
Excuse meCorrectHorseBattery said:
Tom Harwood is not a journalist. Stop giving him airtime.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do not tell me what to post
Who do you think you are-1 -
So with the bill for Covid, the lost tax revenue from 4 million unemployed, the cost of implementing a WTO Brexit and fighting a cyber war with China, can we afford such an indulgence?Scott_xP said:0 -
And now the government is embarassing itself by its hissy fit reaction.Charles said:
He embarrassed the governmentPhilip_Thompson said:
On an unwhipped vote surely?Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.3 -
Let's ask Robert Mugabe shall we?LadyG said:2 -
Yes, it is old, but the principle remains. Maybe a governor on the engine, or some way of making car usage utterly silly (which it more often than not is)? I dunno.Philip_Thompson said:
That's an old argument but it doesn't work. If there was a spear with a spike it would discourage you from doing an emergency stop where it was required . . . so lets say a child unexpectedly steps in front of the road then the safest option for the driver would be to run over the child rather than attempting an emergency stop.Toms said:OGH says "This all reminds me of the moves a few decades ago on the wearing of car seat belts being made compulsory which nowadays few find controversial. The objective is the same – to save lives."
Well, it depends on whose lives we want to save---risk compensation you know.
For instance, if instead of an airbag and/or seat belt cars had a spear that would stick the driver if they ran into something or somebody, then I can guarantee they would drive slowly and carefully. I think anyway that car usage in our society is largely perverse and unnatural, flying in the face of a million years of evolution. Instead, therefore, we should do more to protect walkers and, pushing things a bit, cyclists.0 -
I think you mean he followed the rules and allowed the committee to choose its own chairman rather than being dictated to by the Government.Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
In an ideal world the Speaker would be calling Johnson to parliament and asking him to explain his unparliamentary behaviour.1 -
Very impressiveScott_xP said:1 -
They will be crying over spilt coconut milkglw said:
Not an endorsement that a company will want if Ghislaine Maxwell ever decides to spill the beans.rottenborough said:0 -
It managed that all on its own.Charles said:
He embarrassed the governmentPhilip_Thompson said:
On an unwhipped vote surely?Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.0 -
I didn't think you had sunk so low as to indulge in these childish conspiracy theories.rottenborough said:
TheRichard_Tyndall said:
The Johnson Government shoots itself in the foot ... again.Big_G_NorthWales said:JohnsonCummings Government shoots itself in the foot ... again.
[Corrected for you]0 -
Stand your ground!CorrectHorseBattery said:
Tom Harwood is not a journalist. Stop giving him airtime.Big_G_NorthWales said:0 -
Only according to those who post on forums like this. 99.9% of voters could not care less about Lewis.Benpointer said:
And now the government is embarassing itself by its hissy fit reaction.Charles said:
He embarrassed the governmentPhilip_Thompson said:
On an unwhipped vote surely?Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.0 -
I wonder how many letters Graham Brady has now in his safe?0
-
No they embarrassed themselves perfectly well without his help.Charles said:
He embarrassed the governmentPhilip_Thompson said:
On an unwhipped vote surely?Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.3 -
None before Brexitrottenborough said:I wonder how many letters Graham Brady has now in his safe?
0 -
Is it even conceivable that these two things could exist completely distinct from each other, has there ever existed a coin with just one side to it?Charles said:
There’s a remarkable synergy when you think about those suggestions for a momentSeaShantyIrish2 said:
That could cover anything from lobbying the House of Lords to managing an escort service. OR perhaps both at same time?Charles said:
I make a living trading information and solving problems for my friendsLadyG said:
Really? Shit.Charles said:
My Israeli contacts tell me it was opening the schoolsLadyG said:Ominous. But important
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283434043867049985?s=20
Also, I like the way you have "Israeli contacts". It makes me think you are probably linked to Mossad, which is cool0 -
"Solving a problem for a friend and getting paid by someone else for doing so". Wasn't that the job title on Martin McGuinness' passport? I'M JOKING!Charles said:
Definitely not a lone wolf.Mexicanpete said:
Sort of like The A Team, but a lone wolf figure without the van, a fear of flying and the welding equipment?Charles said:
I make a living trading information and solving problems for my friendsLadyG said:
Really? Shit.Charles said:
My Israeli contacts tell me it was opening the schoolsLadyG said:Ominous. But important
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1283434043867049985?s=20
Also, I like the way you have "Israeli contacts". It makes me think you are probably linked to Mossad, which is cool
Classic example at the moment... solving a problem for a friend and getting paid by someone else for doing so
More importantly, does that mean you do have the van!0 -
alex_ said:
How many people have we tested?bigjohnowls said:
You think countries like South Africa are making any serious effort to count?NerysHughes said:If anyone watches the Sky Covid report on South Africa they will be very glad they live in the UK
0 -
Good. Anything that keeps the vested interests off balance is worth supporting.Foxy said:
His book Paranoid Parenting is a tonic for those fed up with the usual childcare manuals.Richard_Tyndall said:
Frank Furedi is a good example of how the Left/Right definitions fail us these days. His book Culture of Fear is a brilliant analysis of how both Left and Right use fear to instil compliance in the population and how the media feeds this in its chase for ratings.Theuniondivvie said:
Is Revolutionary Commie Furedi the angry right or the angry left?noneoftheabove said:
Cultural appropriation is the one area on racism where the angry right are correct. It is indeed a nonsense.Andy_JS said:"In praise of cultural appropriation
The mixing and meshing of different cultures is something to celebrate.
Frank Furedi"
https://www.spiked-online.com/2016/02/15/in-praise-of-cultural-appropriation/
He remains an interesting academic, but his spiritual children in the RCP are much more interested in political power. They have simply followed Moscows line, from Communist days to the present fermenting of divisive Populism0 -
According to Kantar today the Tories have a 10 point lead so why would MPs want to change leader?rottenborough said:I wonder how many letters Graham Brady has now in his safe?
0 -
Fair.rcs1000 said:
No, I'm asking my kids to think for themselvesNigelb said:
You’re not going all Ben Carson on us, I hope ... ?rcs1000 said:
I had this argument with my kids (10 and 12 years old) - I said, "if I can be gender fluid, why can't I be species fluid? - why can't I self identify as a dog?"tlg86 said:
I agree with that. The issue today seems to be that today’s “woke” for want of a better word are fighting some very dubious wars in my opinion.matthiasfromhamburg said:
I tend to share your view that "woke" isn't atlg86 said:
If by woke you mean good, then no, it isn't woke. But woke isn't a synonym for good, in my opinion.matthiasfromhamburg said:
I stand corrected.LadyG said:
No. Read the headline from the original source. The author believes what is plainly said:matthiasfromhamburg said:
The headline states that the graphic depicts "Assumptions of Whiteness and White Culture in the USofA".LadyG said:
lol. The source is real. It's been tweeted by thousands of otherskinabalu said:
Please see my reply 6.35 to Pagan.kle4 said:
What does who tweets something have to do with whether the thing tweeted is accurate or not? If it isn't, they are disreputable. If it is, then it doesn't matter whether they have views or interpretations others would not share, since we are not obliged to share the view or interpretation they hold. If their interpretation is suspect or incorrect, that's an entirely separate matter.kinabalu said:
I see the tweeter is the proud author of the following work -LadyG said:Peak Woke?
Truly bizarre
https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1283372233730203651?s=20
THE VAST LEFT WING CONSPIRACY:
The Untold Story of How Democratic Operatives, Eccentric Billionaires, Liberal Activists, and Assorted Celebrities Tried to Bring Down a President - and Why They'll Try Even Harder Next Time.
Unless it's a "2+2=4" type assertion, you should always be cautious about accepting at face value things tweeted by dubious sources with an extremist agenda.
And especially so when - as here - it's a tweet from such a source copied onto here by a poster of similar ilk. When it comes to this think Tommy Lee Jones and Ashley Judd - Double Jeopardy.
https://twitter.com/hrkbenowen/status/1283463753481297920?s=20
Here's the relevant literature from the museum
https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/whiteness
I even went through history and found you the original source, all the way back in 1990, and mad academic Judith H Katz
http://www.cascadia.edu/discover/about/diversity/documents/Some Aspects and Assumptions of White Culture in the United States.pdf
You can thank me later
My guess is that it is predominantly white people who are making these assumptions,
associating things which these people
perceive as virtues, with their own whiteness.
I didn't get the impression that the author shares these assumptions, only that she observed the fact that white people, at least a majority of them, hold these views.
"While different individuals might not practice or accept all of these traits, they are common characteristics of most U.S. White people most of the time."
http://www.cascadia.edu/discover/about/diversity/documents/Some Aspects and Assumptions of White Culture in the United States.pdf
Meanwhile on the infographic, see the greyed out text:
It says all these are "white traditions, attitudes and ways of life" which have been "internalized" by "people of color"
After a second, more thorough look at it, I tend to agree that the author, more or less, does share these assumptions, which does seem to bring her own work into disrepute.
I'm still struggling to identify what she has written as 'woke', though. It really seems to be the opposite of that.
synonym for "morally good" or "logically correct", but I think that "anti-woke" is neither. I think that at the core of what some people like to call "woke", there is a progressive stance that constitutes one side of an argument and has its legitimation.
I think that sixty or eighty years ago, had the term "woke" been around at the time, people from the conservative side of the spectrum would have dismissed the views of Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, and everyone who supported their views, as "woke".
Many people of a conservative persuasion did do so, they just used other expressions back then. Societal progress is a real thing, and the "anti-wokes" of yesteryear are not always considered to have been on the 'right side' of history.
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/newest-darling-of-the-republican-party-compares-same-sex-marriage-to-nambla-bestiality-4efa1e28a22/0 -
He wrote one himself today, I suspect, after Johnson roasted him at PMQs.rottenborough said:I wonder how many letters Graham Brady has now in his safe?
0 -
And anyway, I visualised the spear sticking the driver if they HIT somebody or thing. Maybe AI could play a role in that?Toms said:
Yes, it is old, but the principle remains. Maybe a governor on the engine, or some way of making car usage utterly silly (which it more often than not is)? I dunno.Philip_Thompson said:
That's an old argument but it doesn't work. If there was a spear with a spike it would discourage you from doing an emergency stop where it was required . . . so lets say a child unexpectedly steps in front of the road then the safest option for the driver would be to run over the child rather than attempting an emergency stop.Toms said:OGH says "This all reminds me of the moves a few decades ago on the wearing of car seat belts being made compulsory which nowadays few find controversial. The objective is the same – to save lives."
Well, it depends on whose lives we want to save---risk compensation you know.
For instance, if instead of an airbag and/or seat belt cars had a spear that would stick the driver if they ran into something or somebody, then I can guarantee they would drive slowly and carefully. I think anyway that car usage in our society is largely perverse and unnatural, flying in the face of a million years of evolution. Instead, therefore, we should do more to protect walkers and, pushing things a bit, cyclists.
Oh well, climate change will render the question irrelevant.0 -
-
York is far too small and far too nice for them, why not use somewhere that needs the investment, say Rotherham?Scott_xP said:0 -
Yep dcause I have to ask the obvious question - why in York will Parliament sit and where will people stay while attending Parliament.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283503577902850048
Ok. I smell a dead cat.
Is this all to divert from Grayling?
But apart from those obvious flaws it's a great idea2 -
No record points total for Liverpool nor likely record goal difference0
-
At the very least if you are going to push your own power like this you should pull it off. Trying, failing, and punishing the one who defeated you does not project strength.Nigelb said:
The intelligence committee is supposed to be completely non partisan, and to elect its chair without outside influence. The attempt to instal the risible Grayling entirely deserved such an outcome.Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.0 -
No points or wins records for Liverpool.0
-
More like 95% methinks, you do have a point.humbugger said:
Only according to those who post on forums like this. 99.9% of voters could not care less about Lewis.Benpointer said:
And now the government is embarassing itself by its hissy fit reaction.Charles said:
He embarrassed the governmentPhilip_Thompson said:
On an unwhipped vote surely?Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.
BUT the 5% who do care are choice. PLUS many more will see just the headlines (unless the tabloids & other papers ignore the story, which of course they will not) and NOT be impressed.
SO yet another own goal against HM govt.0 -
Backbenchers have a tendency to do that that sometimes.Charles said:
He embarrassed the governmentPhilip_Thompson said:
On an unwhipped vote surely?Charles said:
Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranksNickPalmer said:
Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.bigjohnowls said:
Cummings is a complete fascistScott_xP said:
Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.0 -
"Donald the Dope" just about sums him up.Scott_xP said:0 -
Looks like classic 'we don't London like politically, and much of the country doesn't, so let's say we will move out of it', who knows if it is serious. I will never understand the antipathy toward retaining parliament in the capital of the country, not least since much of the time people pretend it is about saving money even though a world heritage site would need fixing up regardless, so that excuse is bollocks.Scott_xP said:0 -
Maybe they could rent a big tent, like the Great British Baking Show? Or Barnum & Bailey?eek said:
Yep dcause I have to ask the obvious question - why in York will Parliament sit and where will people stay while attending Parliament.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283503577902850048
Ok. I smell a dead cat.
Is this all to divert from Grayling?
But apart from those obvious flaws it's a great idea0 -
-
perhaps biden should pull out of the debates?Scott_xP said:0 -
650.rottenborough said:I wonder how many letters Graham Brady has now in his safe?
But they're all from Scott_P so they don't count.2 -
I would be interested in public opinion on this to be honestkle4 said:
Looks like classic 'we don't London like politically, and much of the country doesn't, so let's say we will move out of it', who knows if it is serious. I will never understand the antipathy toward retaining parliament in the capital of the country, not least since much of the time people pretend it is about saving money even though a world heritage site would need fixing up regardless, so that excuse is bollocks.Scott_xP said:0 -
-
Grayling probably sent one by mistake.Big_G_NorthWales said:
None before Brexitrottenborough said:I wonder how many letters Graham Brady has now in his safe?
5 -
0
-
I think had it not been for the few months gap it would have come, but they've not been the same since the coronavirus break.tlg86 said:No points or wins records for Liverpool.
0 -
Surely there's a soon-to-be-defunct University somewhere?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Maybe they could rent a big tent, like the Great British Baking Show? Or Barnum & Bailey?eek said:
Yep dcause I have to ask the obvious question - why in York will Parliament sit and where will people stay while attending Parliament.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283503577902850048
Ok. I smell a dead cat.
Is this all to divert from Grayling?
But apart from those obvious flaws it's a great idea0 -
Even an App that didn’t work appears to have done some good:
Isle of Wight infection rates dropped after launch of contact tracing app
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/15/isle-of-wight-infection-rates-dropped-after-launch-of-contact-tracing-app0 -
Worst idea ever. Because May did so well when she had a strong lead and pulled out of the debates.rottenborough said:
perhaps biden should pull out of the debates?Scott_xP said:
It shouldn't be hard for Biden to stand up to Trump in the debates. Plus Biden has been in debates this year while its 4 years since Trump has.
Plus Trump so surrounds himself by Yesmen now that I think he'll struggle with even basic debate prep.1 -
This discussion has been closed.