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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Compulsory face mask wearing – the Brexit divide

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  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    I think you mean he followed the rules and allowed the committee to choose its own chairman rather than being dictated to by the Government.

    In an ideal world the Speaker would be calling Johnson to parliament and asking him to explain his unparliamentary behaviour.
    According to the BBC he lied to the Chief Whip. A parliamentary party only works as a collaboration. If someone doesn’t play by the rules they can’t be in the party
    Oh maybe that's a semi reasonable party management matter. But even if so a lie that arose because of their stupidity in making a power play they then lost. If theyd not tried to force the situation theyd not have been in a situation where a colleague ended up lying, and theyd probably have a chair less likely to be hostile.
    True. Grayling is an idiot. I met him a couple of times during the Brexit era and he said some utterly inappropriate things for a cabinet minister to say
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    Seriously though, this Twitter jack could have been really nasty. Imagine if they’d used Trump’s account to announce he was biking China or something?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    I think you mean he followed the rules and allowed the committee to choose its own chairman rather than being dictated to by the Government.

    In an ideal world the Speaker would be calling Johnson to parliament and asking him to explain his unparliamentary behaviour.
    According to the BBC he lied to the Chief Whip. A parliamentary party only works as a collaboration. If someone doesn’t play by the rules they can’t be in the party
    If I had my cynical hat on, I'd say "the government has claimed that Lewis lied to the Conservatives Chief Whip".
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    Pulpstar said:

    Why the hell did the Gov't want failing Grayling as boss of an important committee ?

    Because he does what he's told?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:
    Singing in church is high risk, that will upset a few who were getting snippy about some other things being opened while churches could not.
    Churches are open again for services and communion just without hymns
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,611

    Seriously though, this Twitter jack could have been really nasty. Imagine if they’d used Trump’s account to announce he was biking China or something?

    Interesting they did NOT hack Trumpsky. Professional courtesy, one crook to another? OR Trumpers are at heart of the hack?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,611
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    I think you mean he followed the rules and allowed the committee to choose its own chairman rather than being dictated to by the Government.

    In an ideal world the Speaker would be calling Johnson to parliament and asking him to explain his unparliamentary behaviour.
    According to the BBC he lied to the Chief Whip. A parliamentary party only works as a collaboration. If someone doesn’t play by the rules they can’t be in the party
    If I had my cynical hat on, I'd say "the government has claimed that Lewis lied to the Conservatives Chief Whip".
    Wonder IF CCW will give the "facts" about this to the House? Would NOT bet on that!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    LadyG said:
    Average global deaths per million 75.1, South Africa deaths per million 75, so actually still fractionally below the global average due to its relatively low average life expectancy anyway

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,611
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    I think you mean he followed the rules and allowed the committee to choose its own chairman rather than being dictated to by the Government.

    In an ideal world the Speaker would be calling Johnson to parliament and asking him to explain his unparliamentary behaviour.
    According to the BBC he lied to the Chief Whip. A parliamentary party only works as a collaboration. If someone doesn’t play by the rules they can’t be in the party
    Oh maybe that's a semi reasonable party management matter. But even if so a lie that arose because of their stupidity in making a power play they then lost. If theyd not tried to force the situation theyd not have been in a situation where a colleague ended up lying, and theyd probably have a chair less likely to be hostile.
    True. Grayling is an idiot. I met him a couple of times during the Brexit era and he said some utterly inappropriate things for a cabinet minister to say
    "I say old chap, have you seen my pants?"
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,022

    MaxPB said:

    I also remember way back the Koreans basically said there was a fair element of luck to their initial virus response because they had recently done a practice run based on SARS instead of the Flu as they normally would have done. The Oxford vaccine will be the same bit of luck because they basically just adapted their MERS research to COVID which gave them a gigantic headstart. What has followed has not been luck, but having a lot of the heavy lifting done by trying to create a vaccine for MERS means we might see the back of this by the end of the year instead of the 2-3 year timeframe that is usually required.

    A close relative of mine is one of the volunteers on the Oxford trial (the UK one). She's had a vaccine, but of course doesn't know if she's had THE vaccine.
    How has she been feeling?
    Fine, no significant side-effects.
    LadyG said:
    Excellent comprehensive write-up. Promising stuff.

    @Richard_Nabavi glad to hear that.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,022
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    I think you mean he followed the rules and allowed the committee to choose its own chairman rather than being dictated to by the Government.

    In an ideal world the Speaker would be calling Johnson to parliament and asking him to explain his unparliamentary behaviour.
    According to the BBC he lied to the Chief Whip. A parliamentary party only works as a collaboration. If someone doesn’t play by the rules they can’t be in the party
    If I had my cynical hat on, I'd say "the government has claimed that Lewis lied to the Conservatives Chief Whip".
    Which is of course identical in presentation to the BBC saying it when Laura K is involved.
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited July 2020
    The USA will top 1,000 deaths today. First time since early June

    Probably a record in new cases, too
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,891
    edited July 2020

    Seriously though, this Twitter jack could have been really nasty. Imagine if they’d used Trump’s account to announce he was biking China or something?

    Interesting they did NOT hack Trumpsky. Professional courtesy, one crook to another? OR Trumpers are at heart of the hack?
    Just a bunch of scammers who could be based anywhere. Perhaps they just assumed that nobody would believe anything coming from Trump.

    Such a wasted opportunity. With a bit more subtlety they could have caused mayhem.

    It looks like they've managed to do password resets to new email addresses.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082
    LadyG said:

    The USA will top 1,000 deaths today. First time since early June

    Probably a record in new cases, too

    India’s recorded over 30k cases for the first time as well and will hit a million tomorrow.
  • Options
    LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    The USA will top 1,000 deaths today. First time since early June

    Probably a record in new cases, too

    India’s recorded over 30k cases for the first time as well and will hit a million tomorrow.
    This thing is speeding UP. We need that damn vaccine

    Sinister rebounds in Israel, HK, Australia, etc, as well. It's tenacious.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    edited July 2020

    LadyG said:

    The USA will top 1,000 deaths today. First time since early June

    Probably a record in new cases, too

    India’s recorded over 30k cases for the first time as well and will hit a million tomorrow.
    India has a population of 1.3 billion.

    Global covid deaths per million 75.2, India deaths per million just 18
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:
    Average global deaths per million 75.1, South Africa deaths per million 75, so actually still fractionally below the global average due to its relatively low average life expectancy anyway

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?
    Yeah, but South Africa is on the left hand side of the curve with cases exploding, while (for example) we're on the right hand side, with them in decline. It only makes sense to compare countries at similar stages of outbreaks.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,611

    Seriously though, this Twitter jack could have been really nasty. Imagine if they’d used Trump’s account to announce he was biking China or something?

    Interesting they did NOT hack Trumpsky. Professional courtesy, one crook to another? OR Trumpers are at heart of the hack?
    Just a bunch of scammers who could be based anywhere. Perhaps they just assumed that nobody would believe anything coming from Trump.

    Such a wasted opportunity. With a bit more subtlety they could have caused mayhem.

    It looks like they've managed to do password resets to new email addresses.
    Still interesting they targeted Biden but not Trumpsky. Of course there COULD be semi-benign explanation along lines you suggest.

    BUT somehow "benign" (even semi) and Trumpsky just do NOT go together,
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,009

    I wonder how many letters Graham Brady has now in his safe?

    What is Gove?
    Oh, Brady don't hurt me
    Don't hurt me
    No more
    Lay Brady, lay
    Stay with your man a while
    Why wait any longer for the world to begin
    You can have your cake and eat it too
    Why wait any longer for the one you Gove
    When he's standing in front of you
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:
    Average global deaths per million 75.1, South Africa deaths per million 75, so actually still fractionally below the global average due to its relatively low average life expectancy anyway

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?
    Yeah, but South Africa is on the left hand side of the curve with cases exploding, while (for example) we're on the right hand side, with them in decline. It only makes sense to compare countries at similar stages of outbreaks.
    South Africa cases 311,049, deaths 4,452, a death rate of 1.4%.

    UK cases 291,911, deaths 45,053, a death rate of 14%.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:
    Average global deaths per million 75.1, South Africa deaths per million 75, so actually still fractionally below the global average due to its relatively low average life expectancy anyway

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?
    Yeah, but South Africa is on the left hand side of the curve with cases exploding, while (for example) we're on the right hand side, with them in decline. It only makes sense to compare countries at similar stages of outbreaks.
    South Africa cases 311,049, deaths 4,452, a death rate of 1.4%.

    UK cases 291,911, deaths 45,053, a death rate of 14%.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1
    That's exactly what you'd expect for a country on the left hand side of the chart, where people have been diagnosed, but haven't died.

    If you have lots of people being diagnosed with the disease now, quite a few of them will - in the future - die of it. This is not a controversial point, I would have thought.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013

    Seriously though, this Twitter jack could have been really nasty. Imagine if they’d used Trump’s account to announce he was biking China or something?

    Interesting they did NOT hack Trumpsky. Professional courtesy, one crook to another? OR Trumpers are at heart of the hack?
    Just a bunch of scammers who could be based anywhere. Perhaps they just assumed that nobody would believe anything coming from Trump.

    Such a wasted opportunity. With a bit more subtlety they could have caused mayhem.

    It looks like they've managed to do password resets to new email addresses.
    As this is a "for money" attack by people with patience and resources, my money is on this being a North Korean operation.
  • Options
    Julian Lewis must be absolutely p1ssing himself laughing at today's coup and Cummings' petulent withdrawal of the whip.

    The bloke's pushing 70 and on his last hurrah, so almost certainly doesn't give a flying f*** about not getting the whips' newsletter. Even if he does, he's now in charge of a Committee who can do serious damage to the Government if he wants to ally with Labour and the SNP, which is a hell of a good position to be if he wants the whip back.

    Classic Dom - shafted by a nobody backbencher and has a pointless tantrum about it.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:
    Average global deaths per million 75.1, South Africa deaths per million 75, so actually still fractionally below the global average due to its relatively low average life expectancy anyway

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?
    Yeah, but South Africa is on the left hand side of the curve with cases exploding, while (for example) we're on the right hand side, with them in decline. It only makes sense to compare countries at similar stages of outbreaks.
    South Africa cases 311,049, deaths 4,452, a death rate of 1.4%.

    UK cases 291,911, deaths 45,053, a death rate of 14%.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1
    That's exactly what you'd expect for a country on the left hand side of the chart, where people have been diagnosed, but haven't died.

    If you have lots of people being diagnosed with the disease now, quite a few of them will - in the future - die of it. This is not a controversial point, I would have thought.
    No it isn't given South Africa already has more diagnosed cases than the UK you would expect it to have far more deaths, instead it has far fewer deaths than the UK.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:
    Average global deaths per million 75.1, South Africa deaths per million 75, so actually still fractionally below the global average due to its relatively low average life expectancy anyway

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?
    Yeah, but South Africa is on the left hand side of the curve with cases exploding, while (for example) we're on the right hand side, with them in decline. It only makes sense to compare countries at similar stages of outbreaks.
    South Africa cases 311,049, deaths 4,452, a death rate of 1.4%.

    UK cases 291,911, deaths 45,053, a death rate of 14%.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1
    That's exactly what you'd expect for a country on the left hand side of the chart, where people have been diagnosed, but haven't died.

    If you have lots of people being diagnosed with the disease now, quite a few of them will - in the future - die of it. This is not a controversial point, I would have thought.
    No it isn't given South Africa already has more diagnosed cases than the UK you would expect it to have far more deaths, instead it has far fewer deaths than the UK.
    South Africa has cases rising sharply. We have cases falling. You would expect, therefore, given the delay between infection and death, to see South Africa's death rate ride in the future.
  • Options
    Seventy_OneSeventy_One Posts: 2
    edited July 2020
    Yokes said:

    Its probably time to consider some kind of GOP effort to ease Trump out before election day.

    Its a 2-1 shot that it will be tried, still an outsider of two of course, but a lot shorter than it was two weeks ago.

    Is that your opinion of the probability, or is it a market price? If the latter, how do they define the outcome - simply as the Republican nominee being somebody else on 3 November?

    I read a pre-publication copy of Mary Trump's book a while back. She comes across as deeply emotionally honest, unpolished, and a kind of opposite of her uncle, but there was no knockout punch. The New York tax case may possibly hurt him a lot though. He was very anti NYC afterwards. As for the convention, I wonder whether there will even be a physical one at all.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:
    Average global deaths per million 75.1, South Africa deaths per million 75, so actually still fractionally below the global average due to its relatively low average life expectancy anyway

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?
    Yeah, but South Africa is on the left hand side of the curve with cases exploding, while (for example) we're on the right hand side, with them in decline. It only makes sense to compare countries at similar stages of outbreaks.
    South Africa cases 311,049, deaths 4,452, a death rate of 1.4%.

    UK cases 291,911, deaths 45,053, a death rate of 14%.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1
    That's exactly what you'd expect for a country on the left hand side of the chart, where people have been diagnosed, but haven't died.

    If you have lots of people being diagnosed with the disease now, quite a few of them will - in the future - die of it. This is not a controversial point, I would have thought.
    No it isn't given South Africa already has more diagnosed cases than the UK you would expect it to have far more deaths, instead it has far fewer deaths than the UK.
    South Africa has cases rising sharply. We have cases falling. You would expect, therefore, given the delay between infection and death, to see South Africa's death rate ride in the future.
    On death rate per million we will remain far higher than South Africa is, simply because we have far more over 70s and over 80s than they do
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Seriously though, this Twitter jack could have been really nasty. Imagine if they’d used Trump’s account to announce he was biking China or something?

    Interesting they did NOT hack Trumpsky. Professional courtesy, one crook to another? OR Trumpers are at heart of the hack?
    Just a bunch of scammers who could be based anywhere. Perhaps they just assumed that nobody would believe anything coming from Trump.

    Such a wasted opportunity. With a bit more subtlety they could have caused mayhem.

    It looks like they've managed to do password resets to new email addresses.
    As this is a "for money" attack by people with patience and resources, my money is on this being a North Korean operation.
    My first thought was China in response to the Huawei development, but you may well be right. North Korea is said to be highly capable at both amassing and laundering bitcoins.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,430

    Yokes said:

    Its probably time to consider some kind of GOP effort to ease Trump out before election day.

    Its a 2-1 shot that it will be tried, still an outsider of two of course, but a lot shorter than it was two weeks ago.

    Is that your opinion of the probability, or is it a market price? If the latter, how do they define the outcome - simply as the Republican nominee being somebody else on 3 November?

    I read a pre-publication copy of Mary Trump's book a while back. She comes across as deeply emotionally honest, unpolished, and a kind of opposite of her uncle, but there was no knockout punch. The New York tax case may possibly hurt him a lot though. He was very anti NYC afterwards. As for the convention, I wonder whether there will even be a physical one at all.
    Trump is 1.07 to be nominated at the RNC (due in August) on Betfair.

    Trump is 1/10 to be GOP candidate on election day, with Ladbrokes, and 1/16 to be GOP nominee.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,430

    Julian Lewis must be absolutely p1ssing himself laughing at today's coup and Cummings' petulent withdrawal of the whip.

    The bloke's pushing 70 and on his last hurrah, so almost certainly doesn't give a flying f*** about not getting the whips' newsletter. Even if he does, he's now in charge of a Committee who can do serious damage to the Government if he wants to ally with Labour and the SNP, which is a hell of a good position to be if he wants the whip back.

    Classic Dom - shafted by a nobody backbencher and has a pointless tantrum about it.

    Maybe Dom planned the committee kerfuffle as a dead cat to distract from the Cabinet row about whether you need to wear a mask to buy a Pret sandwich (yes, Truss, Hancock & Sunak; no, Gove & No 10).
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,430

    rcs1000 said:

    Seriously though, this Twitter jack could have been really nasty. Imagine if they’d used Trump’s account to announce he was biking China or something?

    Interesting they did NOT hack Trumpsky. Professional courtesy, one crook to another? OR Trumpers are at heart of the hack?
    Just a bunch of scammers who could be based anywhere. Perhaps they just assumed that nobody would believe anything coming from Trump.

    Such a wasted opportunity. With a bit more subtlety they could have caused mayhem.

    It looks like they've managed to do password resets to new email addresses.
    As this is a "for money" attack by people with patience and resources, my money is on this being a North Korean operation.
    My first thought was China in response to the Huawei development, but you may well be right. North Korea is said to be highly capable at both amassing and laundering bitcoins.
    Possibly the scammers skipped Trump because as an active (and personal, not delegated to a committee) tweeter, the President might have discovered the password change before the scam could take effect.
  • Options
    The two aspects about this which really bug me and I'm sure others are:

    1. Why NOW and not 3 or 4 months ago when the number of deaths arising from Covid-19 was many, many times the very much lower and still declining rate we are now seeing?

    2. Why is the compulsory wearing of face masks stated as continuing for the "FORESEEABLE FUTURE"? What does this mean exactly in the sense of what has to happen for this requirement to be relaxed? Does the Government perhaps have some very concerning information about the future likely spread of this disease about which it is not telling us? It all seems very suspicious.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,709
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,611
This discussion has been closed.