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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Compulsory face mask wearing – the Brexit divide

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Possibly interesting paper.

    SARS-CoV-2 Infection Depends on Cellular Heparan Sulfate and ACE2
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.14.201616v1
    We show that SARS-CoV-2 spike protein interacts with cell surface heparan sulfate and angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) through its Receptor Binding Domain. Docking studies suggest a putative heparin/heparan sulfate-binding site adjacent to the domain that binds to ACE2. In vitro, binding of ACE2 and heparin to spike protein ectodomains occurs independently and a ternary complex can be generated using heparin as a template. Contrary to studies with purified components, spike protein binding to heparan sulfate and ACE2 on cells occurs codependently. Unfractionated heparin, non-anticoagulant heparin, treatment with heparin lyases, and purified lung heparan sulfate potently block spike protein binding and infection by spike protein-pseudotyped virus and SARS-CoV-2 virus. These findings support a model for SARS-CoV-2 infection in which viral attachment and infection involves formation of a complex between heparan sulfate and ACE2. Manipulation of heparan sulfate or inhibition of viral adhesion by exogenous heparin may represent new therapeutic opportunities...
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Wow. Uber got hacked as well

    That's some seriously weapons-grade hacking
    Who does it for $110,000? You could make a hundred times as much from Musk's account, if you could find a way of leveraging Tesla's share price.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Scott_xP said:

    LadyG said:

    Wow. Uber got hacked as well

    That's some seriously weapons-grade hacking

    Biden got hacked. If they get Trump too :)
    No one would notice...
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    God, this is a bleak report on Covid in South Africa

    https://news.sky.com/video/covid-19-cases-are-overwhelming-south-africa-12029281
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Looks like classic 'we don't London like politically, and much of the country doesn't, so let's say we will move out of it', who knows if it is serious. I will never understand the antipathy toward retaining parliament in the capital of the country, not least since much of the time people pretend it is about saving money even though a world heritage site would need fixing up regardless, so that excuse is bollocks.
    Hope parliament stays put for personal reasons. Some of my best times in recent years have been spent on College Green. Love going down there, milling around in the centre of things. You can get quite close to household names who otherwise you only see on TV. If you're into politics it's a genuine thrill.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    The UoW is now predicting 220,000 dead in the US (by Nov 1)

    50k UK

    100K Mexico

    38K Italy

    200K (!!) dead Brazil

    Nothing on India yet.

    Significantly more pessimistic


    https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited July 2020
    The previous two posts capture my mood swings very well!
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    The previous two posts capture my mood swings very well!

    They can both, of course, be true.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Name a big name and they just got hacked on Twitter. The whole thing must be compromised. Netanyahu, Biden, Obama, Musk, Uber, Bloomberg.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    "Parliament in York" has a certain quarter-baked idea flavour, rather appealing yet clearly not going to happen, like an island airport in the Thames or a bridge to Northern Ireland. I wish I could think what the common factor is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    On an unwhipped vote surely?

    Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.
    He embarrassed the government
    As do any rebels who cause a defeat, so that alone is not generally considered sufficient reason. What'd different here is he embarrassed the government in a confrontation entirely of its own making. It's their own damn fault for being too incompetent to pull off what they wanted.

    Leaving your superiors with no way to shy away from the fact that they were the problem is what did for him.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Monkeys said:

    Name a big name and they just got hacked on Twitter. The whole thing must be compromised. Netanyahu, Biden, Obama, Musk, Uber, Bloomberg.

    Scary. Also very very bad for Twitter. Go short Twitter stox
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    I have everything crossed!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Nigelb said:
    Singing in church is high risk, that will upset a few who were getting snippy about some other things being opened while churches could not.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    "Backlash after BBC posts 'sneering' tweet about Birmingham's Olympics bid"

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/backlash-after-bbc-posts-sneering-18601001
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited July 2020

    "Parliament in York" has a certain quarter-baked idea flavour, rather appealing yet clearly not going to happen, like an island airport in the Thames or a bridge to Northern Ireland. I wish I could think what the common factor is.

    The difference is other people feed this particular fantasy periodically as well.

    From the sounds of it even before Covid-19 Rees-Mogg and co were backing off from the last agreed decant plans, and even though now it would be a drop in a bucket I bet the pressure will be on to try something else. It'll be Notre Dame in 10 years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Andy_JS said:

    "Backlash after BBC posts 'sneering' tweet about Birmingham's Olympics bid"

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/backlash-after-bbc-posts-sneering-18601001

    A curious choice to choose to mock, even though I'm sure plenty would find humour in recalling the bid.

    Personally I'm against any place where the train stations charge you to take a piss, which includes Birmingham. Which means I'm against most big places.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    edited July 2020
    Its probably time to consider some kind of GOP effort to ease Trump out before election day.

    Its a 2-1 shot that it will be tried, still an outsider of two of course, but a lot shorter than it was two weeks ago.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    I have everything crossed!
    You should see a doctor about that, but they're still desperate to stop being seeing them about anything I'm afraid.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just a comment on the Smithsonian fracas. Try reading Kate Fox 'Watching the English'. In this book she treats English culture to a bit of simple anthropology, as if they are an exotic tribe being observed. It's very popular, and funny too. The Smithsonian is doing a similar thing, though it is much more stereotyped and sharp, so uncomfortable. It reads more like a critical outsider might see a white culture.

    The PB critics have included these broad criticisms:

    The picture is white supremacist by attributing a range of self evident good qualities to a white culture only.

    The picture is racist and anti-white by attributing a rage of doubtful qualities to a white culture.

    The picture is racist and anti non-white because it implies every non white lacks a range of self evident good qualities.

    It's woke nonsense gone mad.

    I doubt if all these can be true. Personally I feel stereotyped by it, which is exactly I think what happens more to other groups than to whites. So I think it is of value.

    I think the meaning of the graphic is that those traits are generally perceived to be associated with whiteness. So despite Nigerians being the most highly qualified of US immigrants, science is associated with whiteness.
    It says white people "avoid conflict".

    So white people are peaceful. "Whiteness is peace".

    .
    Yes, it is literally describing the social construct of whiteness.

    Race is a social construct. This mind-blowingly woke idea was arrived at in the mid 1940s.
    So now race and gender are both social constructs, if I decide to identify myself as a black woman, anyone who dares say a bad word about anything I do is sexist and racist.

    That’s how it works, right?
    Well, that's the interesting bit isn't it. I am supposed to be able to identify as a woman, but I can't self identify by race.

    That's a bit, odd no. Especially as it's a whole bunch easier to use DNA to determine someone's sex than their race.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    LadyG said:
    My Israeli contacts tell me it was opening the schools
    Really? Shit.

    Also, I like the way you have "Israeli contacts". It makes me think you are probably linked to Mossad, which is cool
    I make a living trading information and solving problems for my friends
    That could cover anything from lobbying the House of Lords to managing an escort service. OR perhaps both at same time?
    There’s a remarkable synergy when you think about those suggestions for a moment
    Lord Sewell, is that you?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    The Modena vaccine has just entered Phase 3 trials too. I may be that this is actually a really simple virus to vaccinate against, which would be awesome.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Grieve (on Newsnight) has some interesting comments on the intelligence select committee fracas.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just a comment on the Smithsonian fracas. Try reading Kate Fox 'Watching the English'. In this book she treats English culture to a bit of simple anthropology, as if they are an exotic tribe being observed. It's very popular, and funny too. The Smithsonian is doing a similar thing, though it is much more stereotyped and sharp, so uncomfortable. It reads more like a critical outsider might see a white culture.

    The PB critics have included these broad criticisms:

    The picture is white supremacist by attributing a range of self evident good qualities to a white culture only.

    The picture is racist and anti-white by attributing a rage of doubtful qualities to a white culture.

    The picture is racist and anti non-white because it implies every non white lacks a range of self evident good qualities.

    It's woke nonsense gone mad.

    I doubt if all these can be true. Personally I feel stereotyped by it, which is exactly I think what happens more to other groups than to whites. So I think it is of value.

    I think the meaning of the graphic is that those traits are generally perceived to be associated with whiteness. So despite Nigerians being the most highly qualified of US immigrants, science is associated with whiteness.
    It says white people "avoid conflict".

    So white people are peaceful. "Whiteness is peace".

    .
    Yes, it is literally describing the social construct of whiteness.

    Race is a social construct. This mind-blowingly woke idea was arrived at in the mid 1940s.
    So now race and gender are both social constructs, if I decide to identify myself as a black woman, anyone who dares say a bad word about anything I do is sexist and racist.

    That’s how it works, right?
    Well, that's the interesting bit isn't it. I am supposed to be able to identify as a woman, but I can't self identify by race.

    That's a bit, odd no. Especially as it's a whole bunch easier to use DNA to determine someone's sex than their race.
    Transracialism is coming, I am sure. At present I'd guess most arguing for it will more likely be seen as racist for doing so.

    Given racism is pretty darn stupid, getting to a point of identifying as whatever race you want would either be oddly comforting - as no one gave a damn who was what race - or awful, as people felt the need to 'change' race to get ahead, or because they felt attached to stereotypes of particular races.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    Considering that these Twitter mischief-makers appear to be able to post from any account it is lucky that they seem to be only interested in scamming bitcoin users. There are a lot worse things they could be doing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Nigelb said:

    Grieve (on Newsnight) has some interesting comments on the intelligence select committee fracas.

    He's an intelligent man, though I'd think 'It's a cockup' would be simpler than whatever he did say.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    The Modena vaccine has just entered Phase 3 trials too. I may be that this is actually a really simple virus to vaccinate against, which would be awesome.
    I actually attended a Zoom seminar hosted by Imperial University on this subject last week, my chemistry degree was just about enough to get me through the door. They basically said that, in terms of creating a vaccine, we've been very lucky in that COVID is a dumb virus and its mechanism is very simple, and therefore quite simple to replicate in a non-threatening way which allows for a vaccine to be created.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    edited July 2020

    I wonder how many letters Graham Brady has now in his safe?

    What is Gove?
    Oh, Brady don't hurt me
    Don't hurt me
    No more
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Nigelb said:

    Grieve (on Newsnight) has some interesting comments on the intelligence select committee fracas.

    And you believe any of it?!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    I wonder how many people they are training to administer it?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    rcs1000 said:



    Well, that's the interesting bit isn't it. I am supposed to be able to identify as a woman, but I can't self identify by race.

    I thought you could, but maybe I'm woefully out of date in these matters,
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just a comment on the Smithsonian fracas. Try reading Kate Fox 'Watching the English'. In this book she treats English culture to a bit of simple anthropology, as if they are an exotic tribe being observed. It's very popular, and funny too. The Smithsonian is doing a similar thing, though it is much more stereotyped and sharp, so uncomfortable. It reads more like a critical outsider might see a white culture.

    The PB critics have included these broad criticisms:

    The picture is white supremacist by attributing a range of self evident good qualities to a white culture only.

    The picture is racist and anti-white by attributing a rage of doubtful qualities to a white culture.

    The picture is racist and anti non-white because it implies every non white lacks a range of self evident good qualities.

    It's woke nonsense gone mad.

    I doubt if all these can be true. Personally I feel stereotyped by it, which is exactly I think what happens more to other groups than to whites. So I think it is of value.

    I think the meaning of the graphic is that those traits are generally perceived to be associated with whiteness. So despite Nigerians being the most highly qualified of US immigrants, science is associated with whiteness.
    It says white people "avoid conflict".

    So white people are peaceful. "Whiteness is peace".

    .
    Yes, it is literally describing the social construct of whiteness.

    Race is a social construct. This mind-blowingly woke idea was arrived at in the mid 1940s.
    So now race and gender are both social constructs, if I decide to identify myself as a black woman, anyone who dares say a bad word about anything I do is sexist and racist.

    That’s how it works, right?
    Well, that's the interesting bit isn't it. I am supposed to be able to identify as a woman, but I can't self identify by race.

    That's a bit, odd no. Especially as it's a whole bunch easier to use DNA to determine someone's sex than their race.
    We should all identify as Africans since that's where the human race originated.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    Haven't AstraZenica already starting production of it?

    On the basis that if it gets approved then it will be ready to use immediately.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    I wonder how many people they are training to administer it?
    1,000 Royal Marines with blow darts.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    Not a bowlful of pineapple pizza?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Loving the Grayling bantz.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just a comment on the Smithsonian fracas. Try reading Kate Fox 'Watching the English'. In this book she treats English culture to a bit of simple anthropology, as if they are an exotic tribe being observed. It's very popular, and funny too. The Smithsonian is doing a similar thing, though it is much more stereotyped and sharp, so uncomfortable. It reads more like a critical outsider might see a white culture.

    The PB critics have included these broad criticisms:

    The picture is white supremacist by attributing a range of self evident good qualities to a white culture only.

    The picture is racist and anti-white by attributing a rage of doubtful qualities to a white culture.

    The picture is racist and anti non-white because it implies every non white lacks a range of self evident good qualities.

    It's woke nonsense gone mad.

    I doubt if all these can be true. Personally I feel stereotyped by it, which is exactly I think what happens more to other groups than to whites. So I think it is of value.

    I think the meaning of the graphic is that those traits are generally perceived to be associated with whiteness. So despite Nigerians being the most highly qualified of US immigrants, science is associated with whiteness.
    It says white people "avoid conflict".

    So white people are peaceful. "Whiteness is peace".

    .
    Yes, it is literally describing the social construct of whiteness.

    Race is a social construct. This mind-blowingly woke idea was arrived at in the mid 1940s.
    So now race and gender are both social constructs, if I decide to identify myself as a black woman, anyone who dares say a bad word about anything I do is sexist and racist.

    That’s how it works, right?
    Well, that's the interesting bit isn't it. I am supposed to be able to identify as a woman, but I can't self identify by race.

    That's a bit, odd no. Especially as it's a whole bunch easier to use DNA to determine someone's sex than their race.
    We should all identify as Africans since that's where the human race originated.
    We originated from outer space (possibly), so we should identify as aliens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Grieve (on Newsnight) has some interesting comments on the intelligence select committee fracas.

    And you believe any of it?!
    In this case, yes. Not sure quite what you doubt about it ?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Loving the Grayling bantz.

    Somethings never get old.

    A broken clock will still be right twice a day, but Grayling failing you can set your watch by.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    On the latest parliamentary development, I must say it takes a remarkably broad-minded definition of the mathematical set of non-Tories to include in it Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Amber Rudd, David Gauke, and Julian Lewis.

    How long before Jacob Rees-Mogg, Matt Hancock and Rishi Sunak are similarly airbrushed out of the party?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    The Modena vaccine has just entered Phase 3 trials too. I may be that this is actually a really simple virus to vaccinate against, which would be awesome.
    Also - Moderna won't deliver before the end of the year though. We're in a fairly unique position with the Oxford vaccine because it's being developed in the UK, under UK regulations and mass produced by a UK company. It means that the government is in a position to order a gigantic number of doses and have it ready to go for the UK before it gets approval by the FDA or EMA, even emergency approval by the FDA is going to take time and during that time the UK may be able to vaccinate millions of people.

    The Imperial lecture touched on how it might work but they seemed to think with good organisation the government/NHS could have every single person vaccinated by the end of this year if there is enough supply from Astra.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    Haven't AstraZenica already starting production of it?

    On the basis that if it gets approved then it will be ready to use immediately.
    Similarly, in the US, several other programs will be producing 100m plus doses before the year end. And some (like Pfizer’s effort) look pretty promising, too.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited July 2020

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
    I assume Prof Gilbert will be getting her own Dukedom suo jure if this all pans out.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Grieve (on Newsnight) has some interesting comments on the intelligence select committee fracas.

    And you believe any of it?!
    In this case, yes. Not sure quite what you doubt about it ?
    Not watching, but when Gove speaks I usually assume he's lying about something, his mouth being open is what gives it away.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    On the latest parliamentary development, I must say it takes a remarkably broad-minded definition of the mathematical set of non-Tories to include in it Dominic Grieve, Phil Hammond, Amber Rudd, David Gauke, and Julian Lewis.

    How long before Jacob Rees-Mogg, Matt Hancock and Rishi Sunak are similarly airbrushed out of the party?

    But it is only partly about ideology, and more about loyalty, so air brushing is not a risk for the ambitious. Rees-Mogg theoretically, but the awkward squads of the Tories and Labour usually seem to know when not to push it, at least where Brexit is not concerned.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Just a comment on the Smithsonian fracas. Try reading Kate Fox 'Watching the English'. In this book she treats English culture to a bit of simple anthropology, as if they are an exotic tribe being observed. It's very popular, and funny too. The Smithsonian is doing a similar thing, though it is much more stereotyped and sharp, so uncomfortable. It reads more like a critical outsider might see a white culture.

    The PB critics have included these broad criticisms:

    The picture is white supremacist by attributing a range of self evident good qualities to a white culture only.

    The picture is racist and anti-white by attributing a rage of doubtful qualities to a white culture.

    The picture is racist and anti non-white because it implies every non white lacks a range of self evident good qualities.

    It's woke nonsense gone mad.

    I doubt if all these can be true. Personally I feel stereotyped by it, which is exactly I think what happens more to other groups than to whites. So I think it is of value.

    I think the meaning of the graphic is that those traits are generally perceived to be associated with whiteness. So despite Nigerians being the most highly qualified of US immigrants, science is associated with whiteness.
    It says white people "avoid conflict".

    So white people are peaceful. "Whiteness is peace".

    .
    Yes, it is literally describing the social construct of whiteness.

    Race is a social construct. This mind-blowingly woke idea was arrived at in the mid 1940s.
    So now race and gender are both social constructs, if I decide to identify myself as a black woman, anyone who dares say a bad word about anything I do is sexist and racist.

    That’s how it works, right?
    Well, that's the interesting bit isn't it. I am supposed to be able to identify as a woman, but I can't self identify by race.

    That's a bit, odd no. Especially as it's a whole bunch easier to use DNA to determine someone's sex than their race.
    We should all identify as Africans since that's where the human race originated.
    We originated from outer space (possibly), so we should identify as aliens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia
    Does that mean I'm black?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    Haven't AstraZenica already starting production of it?

    On the basis that if it gets approved then it will be ready to use immediately.
    Similarly, in the US, several other programs will be producing 100m plus doses before the year end. And some (like Pfizer’s effort) look pretty promising, too.
    That's very good news, we need the US economy to get back on its feet ASAP, Trump or not.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited July 2020
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
    I assume Prof Gilbert will be getting her own Dukedom suo jure if this all pans out.
    She does rather look like she practising her aristocratic superiority pose there. Not that I begrudge her it if the vaccine is successful.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited July 2020

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
    I love a good staged photo. I wonder what direction they gave her.
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
    I assume Prof Gilbert will be getting her own Dukedom suo jure if this all pans out.
    There is a Covid-19 honours nomination process, though a dukedom may be pushing it unless she marries a prince or destroys some french armies.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-honours-nomination-form
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    I'm guessing the people of York won't be rolling out the red carpet for Lord Singh of Wimbledon any time soon.

    "Crossbencher Lord Singh of Wimbledon said that York was seen as "something of an outer Mongolia by the general public," and Labour's Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town asked if the government was trying to get rid "of these pesky Lords"."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-53410599/house-of-lords-questions-potential-move-to-york
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    Haven't AstraZenica already starting production of it?

    On the basis that if it gets approved then it will be ready to use immediately.
    Similarly, in the US, several other programs will be producing 100m plus doses before the year end. And some (like Pfizer’s effort) look pretty promising, too.
    Christ. Which is cheapest?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
    I love a good staged photo. I wonder what direction they gave her.
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
    I assume Prof Gilbert will be getting her own Dukedom suo jure if this all pans out.
    There is a Covid-19 honours nomination process, though a dukedom may be pushing it unless she marries a prince or destroys some french armies.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-honours-nomination-form
    Perhaps those are her past times when she's not curing global pandemics?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    Haven't AstraZenica already starting production of it?

    On the basis that if it gets approved then it will be ready to use immediately.
    Similarly, in the US, several other programs will be producing 100m plus doses before the year end. And some (like Pfizer’s effort) look pretty promising, too.
    That's very good news, we need the US economy to get back on its feet ASAP, Trump or not.
    Yes but please God don't let him get any credit for it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Grieve (on Newsnight) has some interesting comments on the intelligence select committee fracas.

    And you believe any of it?!
    In this case, yes. Not sure quite what you doubt about it ?
    Not watching, but when Gove speaks I usually assume he's lying about something, his mouth being open is what gives it away.
    A felicitous typo.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    I also remember way back the Koreans basically said there was a fair element of luck to their initial virus response because they had recently done a practice run based on SARS instead of the Flu as they normally would have done. The Oxford vaccine will be the same bit of luck because they basically just adapted their MERS research to COVID which gave them a gigantic headstart. What has followed has not been luck, but having a lot of the heavy lifting done by trying to create a vaccine for MERS means we might see the back of this by the end of the year instead of the 2-3 year timeframe that is usually required.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
    I assume Prof Gilbert will be getting her own Dukedom suo jure if this all pans out.
    She does rather look like she practising her aristocratic superiority pose there. Not that I begrudge her it if the vaccine is successful.
    Gilbert for Queen?
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
    I love a good staged photo. I wonder what direction they gave her.
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    Any non-paywall stories?

    Good news indeed though.
    You can read most of the article on the front page image here:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1283507416768884740?s=20
    I assume Prof Gilbert will be getting her own Dukedom suo jure if this all pans out.
    There is a Covid-19 honours nomination process, though a dukedom may be pushing it unless she marries a prince or destroys some french armies.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-honours-nomination-form
    I vote for the latter.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    MaxPB said:

    I also remember way back the Koreans basically said there was a fair element of luck to their initial virus response because they had recently done a practice run based on SARS instead of the Flu as they normally would have done. The Oxford vaccine will be the same bit of luck because they basically just adapted their MERS research to COVID which gave them a gigantic headstart. What has followed has not been luck, but having a lot of the heavy lifting done by trying to create a vaccine for MERS means we might see the back of this by the end of the year instead of the 2-3 year timeframe that is usually required.

    A close relative of mine is one of the volunteers on the Oxford trial (the UK one). She's had a vaccine, but of course doesn't know if she's had THE vaccine.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Grieve (on Newsnight) has some interesting comments on the intelligence select committee fracas.

    And you believe any of it?!
    In this case, yes. Not sure quite what you doubt about it ?
    Not watching, but when Gove speaks I usually assume he's lying about something, his mouth being open is what gives it away.
    A felicitous typo.
    I read Grieve as Gove in your initial post!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    Haven't AstraZenica already starting production of it?

    On the basis that if it gets approved then it will be ready to use immediately.
    Similarly, in the US, several other programs will be producing 100m plus doses before the year end. And some (like Pfizer’s effort) look pretty promising, too.
    That's very good news, we need the US economy to get back on its feet ASAP, Trump or not.
    Yes but please God don't let him get any credit for it.
    Well, in Pfizer’s case there is none, as they’re funding it entirely themselves.

    But, to be fair, the US government funding of several other programs to the tune of multiple billions is a good thing. Some of them may also deliver in the near term, too.
    (though I’m a little concerned by the reported levels of adverse reactions to the Moderna vaccine.)
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    Haven't AstraZenica already starting production of it?

    On the basis that if it gets approved then it will be ready to use immediately.
    Similarly, in the US, several other programs will be producing 100m plus doses before the year end. And some (like Pfizer’s effort) look pretty promising, too.
    That's very good news, we need the US economy to get back on its feet ASAP, Trump or not.
    Yes but please God don't let him get any credit for it.
    He's already taken it.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    MaxPB said:

    I also remember way back the Koreans basically said there was a fair element of luck to their initial virus response because they had recently done a practice run based on SARS instead of the Flu as they normally would have done. The Oxford vaccine will be the same bit of luck because they basically just adapted their MERS research to COVID which gave them a gigantic headstart. What has followed has not been luck, but having a lot of the heavy lifting done by trying to create a vaccine for MERS means we might see the back of this by the end of the year instead of the 2-3 year timeframe that is usually required.

    I've never, in all my born days, been more hopeful that another PBer is completely right.

    I confess I have been close to black despair in recent days, as the likely economic damage looms into view. If this virus drags on for years we could see quite apocalyptic outcomes, beyond anything outlined so far.

    A vaccine!

    Insha'Allah. A VACCINE
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Grayling.

    LOL.


    LOL.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    MaxPB said:

    I also remember way back the Koreans basically said there was a fair element of luck to their initial virus response because they had recently done a practice run based on SARS instead of the Flu as they normally would have done. The Oxford vaccine will be the same bit of luck because they basically just adapted their MERS research to COVID which gave them a gigantic headstart. What has followed has not been luck, but having a lot of the heavy lifting done by trying to create a vaccine for MERS means we might see the back of this by the end of the year instead of the 2-3 year timeframe that is usually required.

    A close relative of mine is one of the volunteers on the Oxford trial (the UK one). She's had a vaccine, but of course doesn't know if she's had THE vaccine.
    How has she been feeling?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Backlash after BBC posts 'sneering' tweet about Birmingham's Olympics bid"

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/backlash-after-bbc-posts-sneering-18601001

    A curious choice to choose to mock, even though I'm sure plenty would find humour in recalling the bid.

    Personally I'm against any place where the train stations charge you to take a piss, which includes Birmingham. Which means I'm against most big places.
    I lived in the Black Country in 1991, and Brum was a post industrial sithole then. By the millennium it was a pretty decent place again. I quite like Brum, its reinventing itself every generation and sometimes getting it right makes it more like America than any British city, but when it was making the bid it was in a pretty bad way.
  • Tom Harwood is not a journalist. Stop giving him airtime.
    Excuse me

    You do not tell me what to post

    Who do you think you are
    No idea, but you're a bellend.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    alterego said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    Haven't AstraZenica already starting production of it?

    On the basis that if it gets approved then it will be ready to use immediately.
    Similarly, in the US, several other programs will be producing 100m plus doses before the year end. And some (like Pfizer’s effort) look pretty promising, too.
    Christ. Which is cheapest?
    I don’t know (though Pfizer claim they’ll provide theirs at cost... though that’s a flexible term in the pharmacy industry). For a large pharma, that might be worthwhile just for the PR.
    Whereas a young scrappy and hungry biotech like Moderna has a very different set of incentives.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Grieve (on Newsnight) has some interesting comments on the intelligence select committee fracas.

    And you believe any of it?!
    In this case, yes. Not sure quite what you doubt about it ?
    Not watching, but when Gove speaks I usually assume he's lying about something, his mouth being open is what gives it away.
    A felicitous typo.
    I read Grieve as Gove in your initial post!
    LOL.
    In which case, we seem to be in agreement.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited July 2020
    In the interests of its long-term survival, the Tory party needs more intellects like Grieve's and fewer like Mark Francois's.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Aheatmap of covid cases in florida- it doesn't look good https://twitter.com/nataliexdean/status/1283134585665200131
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Never been much of a fan of Birmingham - it’s like a big Leicester, just inherently dull. The exception was in the late 1990s when some of its clubs absolutely kicked.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    MaxPB said:

    I also remember way back the Koreans basically said there was a fair element of luck to their initial virus response because they had recently done a practice run based on SARS instead of the Flu as they normally would have done. The Oxford vaccine will be the same bit of luck because they basically just adapted their MERS research to COVID which gave them a gigantic headstart. What has followed has not been luck, but having a lot of the heavy lifting done by trying to create a vaccine for MERS means we might see the back of this by the end of the year instead of the 2-3 year timeframe that is usually required.

    A close relative of mine is one of the volunteers on the Oxford trial (the UK one). She's had a vaccine, but of course doesn't know if she's had THE vaccine.
    How has she been feeling?
    Fine, no significant side-effects.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Having taken control of data reporting from the CDC (a move which has outraged health professionals & scientists), the Trump administration now seems to be actively suppressing some reported numbers...

    https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1283531042633244675
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Awesome array of polls, all but Rasmussen good for Biden and intyernally pretty consistent - Biden apparently ahead by 8-10 overall, with the 3 and 15 as outliers.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    A uniform swing of 4-5 points - more familiar in British politics but not unknown in the US could yet change things, but those numbers have been stable for a while.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600

    Never been much of a fan of Birmingham - it’s like a big Leicester, just inherently dull. The exception was in the late 1990s when some of its clubs absolutely kicked.

    I've spent time in both Birmingham and Leicester and Birmingham is more interesting IMO.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249
    edited July 2020
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Wow the news about the Oxford vaccine looks incredibly positive:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/coronavirus-vaccine-breakthrough-oxford-scientists-discover/

    If this works it could actually be the silver bullet we need.

    That is fantastic. Please God it works, and my pessimism is wrong.

    They also talk about "September" for the first delivery. Amazing if true.
    The government has ordered 100m doses, the first 30m of which are to be delivered by the end of September, so we could have half (or more) of the population vaccinated by the end of the year. Again, AIUI this is the reason the UK declined the EU vaccine scheme as the 100m UK destined vaccine doses become 100m EU destined vaccine doses which they then dole out as they see fit.
    I was very skeptical. If it turns out you were right, I shall eat an entire bowl of sriracha by way of joyful penance
    I would happily bet they won't manage 30m by the end of September (10 weeks, and we still have phase 3 test to get through)... but by the end of the year? That's certainly possible.
    I wonder how many people they are training to administer it?
    Infrastructure already exists in GP Surgeries...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Backlash after BBC posts 'sneering' tweet about Birmingham's Olympics bid"

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/backlash-after-bbc-posts-sneering-18601001

    A curious choice to choose to mock, even though I'm sure plenty would find humour in recalling the bid.

    Personally I'm against any place where the train stations charge you to take a piss, which includes Birmingham. Which means I'm against most big places.
    Toilets at New Street are free, or at least they were back in December.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,249
    edited July 2020

    "Parliament in York" has a certain quarter-baked idea flavour, rather appealing yet clearly not going to happen, like an island airport in the Thames or a bridge to Northern Ireland. I wish I could think what the common factor is.

    I quite like the idea of Parliament only meeting during University summer holidays. And I think York University would be geared up for a quick start for the Commons as they already handle General Synod in their existing facilities.

    Given the number of crooks involved, the Lords could consider Wormwood Scrubs.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    MattW said:

    "Parliament in York" has a certain quarter-baked idea flavour, rather appealing yet clearly not going to happen, like an island airport in the Thames or a bridge to Northern Ireland. I wish I could think what the common factor is.

    I quite like the idea of Parliament only meeting during University summer holidays. And I think York University would be geared up for a quick start for the Commons as they already handle General Synod in their existing facilities.

    Given the number of crooks involved, the Lords could consider Wormwood Scrubs.
    Boris will lovePMQs only being done 10 times a year
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    alex_ said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    On an unwhipped vote surely?

    Not every MP who breaks the whip loses the whip normally, let alone one who breaks an unwhipped vote.
    He embarrassed the government
    Johnson does that most days of the week.
    Turns out he lied to the Chief Whip
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    I think you mean he followed the rules and allowed the committee to choose its own chairman rather than being dictated to by the Government.

    In an ideal world the Speaker would be calling Johnson to parliament and asking him to explain his unparliamentary behaviour.
    According to the BBC he lied to the Chief Whip. A parliamentary party only works as a collaboration. If someone doesn’t play by the rules they can’t be in the party
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    LadyG said:
    My Israeli contacts tell me it was opening the schools
    Really? Shit.

    Also, I like the way you have "Israeli contacts". It makes me think you are probably linked to Mossad, which is cool
    I make a living trading information and solving problems for my friends
    Sort of like The A Team, but a lone wolf figure without the van, a fear of flying and the welding equipment?
    Definitely not a lone wolf.

    Classic example at the moment... solving a problem for a friend and getting paid by someone else for doing so
    "Solving a problem for a friend and getting paid by someone else for doing so". Wasn't that the job title on Martin McGuinness' passport? I'M JOKING!

    More importantly, does that mean you do have the van!
    I’m the guy with the cigar
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Andy_JS said:

    Seat changes with the new Kantar opinion poll compared to GE2019 with ElectoralCalculus.

    Con -7
    Lab +2
    LD -5
    SNP +10

    https://tinyurl.com/ybk6nkr5

    Not quite. The poll does show a swing to Lab from Con of almost 1% which on the basis of UNS would produce 8 Labour gains.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Backlash after BBC posts 'sneering' tweet about Birmingham's Olympics bid"

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/backlash-after-bbc-posts-sneering-18601001

    A curious choice to choose to mock, even though I'm sure plenty would find humour in recalling the bid.

    Personally I'm against any place where the train stations charge you to take a piss, which includes Birmingham. Which means I'm against most big places.
    Toilets at New Street are free, or at least they were back in December.
    It's been a while since I was there. They didnt use to be thats good news.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Why the hell did the Gov't want failing Grayling as boss of an important committee ?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    I think you mean he followed the rules and allowed the committee to choose its own chairman rather than being dictated to by the Government.

    In an ideal world the Speaker would be calling Johnson to parliament and asking him to explain his unparliamentary behaviour.
    According to the BBC he lied to the Chief Whip. A parliamentary party only works as a collaboration. If someone doesn’t play by the rules they can’t be in the party
    The government should not have tried to stitch it up in the first place. This is a reasonable reaction and the government has taken leave of its senses by throwing Julian Lewis out of the party. It's these kinds of decisions that don't make me regret resigning my membership. Petty, childish rubbish from Boris, Grayling was completely unsuitable to hold a position of relative importance, especially at a time when the committee will need to grill the PM and ministers on Huawei, China, our intelligence and defence relationship with European countries after leaving the EU. Trying to force Grayling as the chairman once again showed just how little judgement Boris has.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Interesting. When I was put on the Treasury Select Committee, a rival to the favoured Labour chair asked for my support, and I said I'd consider it. The Chief Whip, Nick Brown, asked me in and pleaded with me to support the favoured candidate (which I eventually did). It wasn't strictly proper for him to have a view at all, but he certainly didn't threaten expulsion if I didn't do what he said. In fact I don't remember any examples of that threat being made to anyone.

    Lewis is a cold warrior of the old school - I'd expect him to be stern on China. But he's also an independent mind, and the Government seems unkeen on those. Ironically, this restores the tradition (hitherto respected by both parties) that no one party has a majority on that committee.
    Lewis didn’t just vote for another candidate. He conspired with the opposition and broke ranks
    I think you mean he followed the rules and allowed the committee to choose its own chairman rather than being dictated to by the Government.

    In an ideal world the Speaker would be calling Johnson to parliament and asking him to explain his unparliamentary behaviour.
    According to the BBC he lied to the Chief Whip. A parliamentary party only works as a collaboration. If someone doesn’t play by the rules they can’t be in the party
    Oh maybe that's a semi reasonable party management matter. But even if so a lie that arose because of their stupidity in making a power play they then lost. If theyd not tried to force the situation theyd not have been in a situation where a colleague ended up lying, and theyd probably have a chair less likely to be hostile.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Pulpstar said:

    Why the hell did the Gov't want failing Grayling as boss of an important committee ?

    Does long-waited report on Russian meddling have something to do with it?

    According to BBC (same story cited by Charles):

    The delay in publication has led to speculation the report contains details embarrassing for the Conservatives, however leader of the House Jacob Rees-Mogg said the hold up was due to a number of committee members leaving Parliament and the need "to make sure that the right people with the right level of experience and responsibility could be appointed".

    Yes, the right people. Right like Grayling? And right FOR who?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited July 2020
    The Grayling appointment seemed to be a mixture of clear and brazen provocation, and a more subtle calculus of the more malleable uses of a less intellectually dominating figure.

    In other words, Classic Dom, as was the reaction to Julian Lewis's being appointed instead.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Pulpstar said:

    Why the hell did the Gov't want failing Grayling as boss of an important committee ?

    So he could control the agenda and allow them to get away with lesser scrutiny on the poor decision making process behind some of the decisions on Huawei, Chinese investment in key UK infrastructure and what kind of intelligence and defence relationship we want with European countries after leaving the EU. All of those issues are hugely complex and important, Grayling would inevitably give them a free pass.
This discussion has been closed.