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Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.OldKingCole said:
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.eek said:
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Schools are open and have been all alongMexicanpete said:
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process0 -
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.RochdalePioneers said:Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse
2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you.
3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.0 -
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument1 -
The poll actually said only 30% of the population would feel comfortable, so that's an upper limit on those that will go, assuming some non pub-goers did say they would feel comfortable despite not planning on going.nichomar said:
You have to remember about70% of the population would not go to a pub anyway So the poll is meaningless unless they are filtered out first. The same about restaurants I bet they would go to mc donalds but wouldn’t go to a chef and brewer which they wouldn’t go to anyway. If going wear mask unless eating and drinking, sanitize hands and no kissing greetings. Do as the proprietor asks and keep your distance.Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated0 -
Difficult not to describe what happened to the latter as genocide, though.ydoethur said:
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.CorrectHorseBattery said:
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.kamski said:
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"Philip_Thompson said:
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.Slackbladder said:
Yes, clearly racist.LostPassword said:
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.Charles said:
A linguistic questionDecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.0 -
How would you describe the actions of people like Tamerlane?MaxPB said:
As I said, I don't know if there was specific targeting, at least by the slave traders it doesn't seem like it, they probably just bought the slaves available.kamski said:
Hmm it's probably complicated, but I always understood that certain ethnic groups were targeted in Africa (perhaps more by the African partners of the European slave traders), maybe someone has some expertise?MaxPB said:
I'm not saying it wasn't racist or offensive, it was. My point was that the genocidebof the Holocaust was perpetrated against a specific people. I don't think slavery was targeted at a specific tribe or race, it was fairly random. Though I'm ready to be corrected.kamski said:
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.MaxPB said:
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.kamski said:
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"Philip_Thompson said:
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.Slackbladder said:
Yes, clearly racist.LostPassword said:
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.Charles said:
A linguistic questionDecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
But I'm not really arguing about whether genocide happened or not. I'm saying Starkey's racist logic is that for a genocide to have happened, the entire black population of Africa would have had to be targeted.
Starkey's logic seems to stem from that, slavery was randomly targeted against black people in general so it couldn't have been genocide. I think that's probably correct but as I said, I actually don't know if a specific tribe wasn't targeted for being slaves or killed because they refused to be slaves.0 -
Um https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-coronavirus-thursday/index.html but let's not let facts get in the way of your reality..Sean_F said:
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.RochdalePioneers said:Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse
2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you.
3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.0 -
I think Sean is talking about cases and shops in the UK.eek said:
Um https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-coronavirus-thursday/index.html but let's not let facts get in the way of your reality..Sean_F said:
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.RochdalePioneers said:Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse
2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you.
3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.0 -
I should have been clearer that I meant cases and deaths in the UK.eek said:
Um https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-coronavirus-thursday/index.html but let's not let facts get in the way of your reality..Sean_F said:
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.RochdalePioneers said:Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse
2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you.
3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.0 -
Yes as demonstrated by Tory voters on here who argue that Schools are open when open means operating at 10%-20% capacity and doing nothing like what they used to do..Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument0 -
He's making hard work of saying what Nigel Farage said a month agoCorrectHorseBattery said:
I agree with the concept of "black lives matter", I don't agree with the organisation "Black Lives Matter" or "Black Lives Matter UK". That's what I think Keir was getting at.rottenborough said:
What about dismantling capitalism?CorrectHorseBattery said:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1270373208475271168?s=210 -
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sectoreek said:
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.OldKingCole said:
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.eek said:
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Schools are open and have been all alongMexicanpete said:
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
0 -
FF43 said:
Thanks. I realised my question didn't make my context clear. I accept ethnic cleansing can mean the forced displacement of a race, such as happened in Israel after independence, without the deliberate killing of those people. However, the slave trade like the Nazi Holocaust resulted in the inevitable deaths of millions, the difference being that the explicit elimination of a race through murder in the case of the Holocaust. I accept the intent might be an important distinction. However as I posited yesterday, if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide? The concentration camps were a key part of the German slave economy and as such maybe not so different from the African slave trade?ydoethur said:
Yes. Genocide is the deliberate attempt to wipe out a whole race. Ethnic cleansing is an attempt to empty an area of a particular race, which is more usually by moving them out by force (which also of course generally includes multiple deaths) usually followed by the repopulation of the area with members of a different race.FF43 said:
Practically speaking, is there any difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing?ydoethur said:
At the same time, I wouldn't personally use the word 'genocide' to describe the slave trade. It's too loaded a term and carries particular meanings that don't fit especially well with the reality of what happened.CorrectHorseBattery said:
His genocide arguments were incredibly offensive.kamski said:
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"Philip_Thompson said:
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.Slackbladder said:
Yes, clearly racist.LostPassword said:
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.Charles said:
A linguistic questionDecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
His argument was that genocides don't exist if some of the people survive.
'Ethnic cleansing' would have been a much more appropriate phrase, especially given colonial slavery involved the moving or suppression of First Nation peoples.
At its crudest the Holocaust was a genocide, the Sudeten German expulsion was ethnic cleansing.
Edit - I suppose you could say that all genocides are a form of ethnic cleansing, but not all ethnic cleansing meets the threshold for genocide.
Have a good morning.
" if you took the gas chamber element away from the Nazi concentration camps, would it no longer be a genocide?"
It would most definitely be genocide. The evidence on this point is very clear.
There were many concentration camps and there were ghettos. Only one concentration camp had gas chambers. In the other concentration camps there were many direct executions and and very many indirect executions (eg, insufficient nutrion for the forced labour and forced medical experiments). The deliberate killing of millions of people just because they were Jewish would still have occured.0 -
Yes. Moral vacuum. Intellectual one too. Clever but lazy and shallow. However the brand is different. The brand is bit of a boyo, dynamic, amiable and relatable - and it does indeed "reach places other politicians cannot reach."RochdalePioneers said:
I refer to him as "Shagger". Remember that his second sacking was because he was shagging Wyatt behind his wife's back, knocked her up twice then lied to the PM about it. This time was shagging Symonds behind the same wife's back - having shagged at least one other in the meantime with yet another pregnancy. He's clearly a man of trust and honour. And detail - like how many children he has fathered.kinabalu said:Ooo, "cretinous bumbling wazzock". That is most certainly the edgier cousin of Ian's "great self regarding pudding in Downing St" from yesterday.
All great anyway. All an improvement on "Boris".
Grr.0 -
The reality is that this virus is a very long way from being beaten. Worldwide, we have gone from breaking 10m recorded cases last weekend to 11m yesterday. The number of new cases per day is accelerating. Given that it seems beyond us to quarantine arrivals further outbreaks are inevitable until we find a cure.
So what do we do? Do we keep a tight lockdown (and quarantine) in the hope we can eliminate the virus locally like NZ? Or do we accept that in a country like the UK that way lies economic ruin and almost certainly no success in any event?
We have no choice but to unwind the lockdown. We need our economy to start moving again. That includes pubs, restaurants and hairdressers. There is no magical solution or system that makes this safe. We really just have to accept that. The risk individually is very low but some will be unlucky and some of those will die. That's the way it is.2 -
How are products made in Japan or South Korea if they're part of the domestic car industry?Scott_xP said:Products from Japan or South Korea would be stamped “Made in Britain”, under Boris Johnson’s plan to save the domestic car industry after Brexit.
The proposal is an attempt to prevent punishing tariffs driving away the likes of Nissan and Toyota, but will sound “ridiculous” to voters promised huge benefits from leaving the EU, one trade expert said.
It also means the UK is effectively asking the EU for the benefits of a customs union, a new analysis says – despite the prime minister insisting the UK is leaving the trading arrangement.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/car-industry-boris-johnson-made-in-britain-japan-south-korea-brexit-a9598466.html
"I don't believe in gestures..."
Does domestic now mean Japan or South Korea?0 -
But this is the same argument that caused us to delay locking down in the first place: what about the damage to jobs, the economy, and people's wellbeing? If we'd locked down earlier, there'd be tens of thousands fewer dead, and we wouldn't have had to lock down so hard or so long.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine question
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
Exactly the same thing will be true if there ends up being a big second wave- any short-term gain in people going outside for a while will be at the cost not only of many deaths, but of having to lock down harder, for longer, again.2 -
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?0 -
It's not exactly an "order of magnitude" as has been presented by other posters this morning determined to see what they want to.eristdoof said:
7 day moving average for new cases on 2nd JulyMalmesbury said:
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in Germany - 503RochdalePioneers said:
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?
On the 2nd July, number of cases of COVID detected in UK - 576
UK: 792
Germany 4190 -
Schools are open but of course not operating at full capacityeek said:
Yes as demonstrated by Tory voters on here who argue that Schools are open when open means operating at 10%-20% capacity and doing nothing like what they used to do..Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument0 -
Mass murder. TBH, I don't think that genocide is worse than mass murder, it's just a particular form of mass murder.OldKingCole said:
How would you describe the actions of people like Tamerlane?MaxPB said:
As I said, I don't know if there was specific targeting, at least by the slave traders it doesn't seem like it, they probably just bought the slaves available.kamski said:
Hmm it's probably complicated, but I always understood that certain ethnic groups were targeted in Africa (perhaps more by the African partners of the European slave traders), maybe someone has some expertise?MaxPB said:
I'm not saying it wasn't racist or offensive, it was. My point was that the genocidebof the Holocaust was perpetrated against a specific people. I don't think slavery was targeted at a specific tribe or race, it was fairly random. Though I'm ready to be corrected.kamski said:
Which makes my point for me. I guess Starkey can easily imagine there is a difference between one kind of European and another, so one group of Europeans being killed is easily seen as genocide, but seems unable to imagine any differences between all black Africans. According to his logic there has never been any genocide anywhere in Africa because there are so many blacks still living in Africa. "There was no genocide in Rwanda because there are so many blacks in Africa." It's stupid, offensive and racist.MaxPB said:
There weren't that many Jews left, though. The Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people, not white people.kamski said:
I think it would still be clearly racist, though obviously a bit less offensive. Without wanting to get into the argument of whether the slave trade was "genocide", nobody would say "if the nazis committed genocide how come there are so many whites in Europe?"Philip_Thompson said:
Clearly racist and on camera. No need to use the word alleged or allegedly.Slackbladder said:
Yes, clearly racist.LostPassword said:
The other contexts when you might say, "why are there still so many damn < something >" are, I think, where the something is negative - so many damn slugs, so many damn midges, so many damn racists, etc.Charles said:
A linguistic questionDecrepiterJohnL said:
Allegedly, not alleged. It is (at best) the racist nature of the recorded comments that might be in doubt, not their existence given they are on video, so "allegedly racist" rather than "alleged ... comments". I doubt we'll see yet another Starkey television series on the Tudors.Andy_JS said:BBC radio news at midnight tonight said: “…after racist comments by David Starkey”. They didn’t even bother to say “alleged racist comments”.
Starkey said “so many damn blacks survived”. It certainly indicates he has some pretty antediluvian views. But is the actual *comment* racist?
If not then aren’t you attacking someone for what they believe?
So the implication from common usage of the word in the sentence is that the continued existence of black people despite slavery is a negative thing - clearly racist.
If he hadn't used the word damn it would be a different matter.
Hitler wanted to eradicate Jews, I'm pretty sure that slave traders just wanted to make money, not eradicate black people.
But I'm not really arguing about whether genocide happened or not. I'm saying Starkey's racist logic is that for a genocide to have happened, the entire black population of Africa would have had to be targeted.
Starkey's logic seems to stem from that, slavery was randomly targeted against black people in general so it couldn't have been genocide. I think that's probably correct but as I said, I actually don't know if a specific tribe wasn't targeted for being slaves or killed because they refused to be slaves.
The level of carnage in some of these cases is hard to comprehend. The population of Northern China fell from 30m to 9m, between 1211 and 1241, thank to the Mongol conquest. The An Lushan rebellion killed anywhere between 5% and 15% of the world's population in the eighth century.1 -
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sectoreek said:
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.OldKingCole said:
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.eek said:
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Schools are open and have been all alongMexicanpete said:
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
0 -
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?3 -
Or we quarantine arrivals and continue most lockdown measures until we've got our shit together on test and trace, and our numbers low enough so that we can do that effectively.DavidL said:The reality is that this virus is a very long way from being beaten. Worldwide, we have gone from breaking 10m recorded cases last weekend to 11m yesterday. The number of new cases per day is accelerating. Given that it seems beyond us to quarantine arrivals further outbreaks are inevitable until we find a cure.
So what do we do? Do we keep a tight lockdown (and quarantine) in the hope we can eliminate the virus locally like NZ? Or do we accept that in a country like the UK that way lies economic ruin and almost certainly no success in any event?
We have no choice but to unwind the lockdown. We need our economy to start moving again. That includes pubs, restaurants and hairdressers. There is no magical solution or system that makes this safe. We really just have to accept that. The risk individually is very low but some will be unlucky and some of those will die. That's the way it is.0 -
No. Because the pubs are closed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Does anyone go to A & E these daysMexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated2 -
We've already done that.Stereotomy said:
Or we quarantine arrivals and continue most lockdown measures until we've got our shit together on test and trace, and our numbers low enough so that we can do that effectively.DavidL said:The reality is that this virus is a very long way from being beaten. Worldwide, we have gone from breaking 10m recorded cases last weekend to 11m yesterday. The number of new cases per day is accelerating. Given that it seems beyond us to quarantine arrivals further outbreaks are inevitable until we find a cure.
So what do we do? Do we keep a tight lockdown (and quarantine) in the hope we can eliminate the virus locally like NZ? Or do we accept that in a country like the UK that way lies economic ruin and almost certainly no success in any event?
We have no choice but to unwind the lockdown. We need our economy to start moving again. That includes pubs, restaurants and hairdressers. There is no magical solution or system that makes this safe. We really just have to accept that. The risk individually is very low but some will be unlucky and some of those will die. That's the way it is.0 -
Reopening the shops in Florida occurred in May - 6-8 weeks later there is a new surge in cases..RobD said:
I think Sean is talking about cases and shops in the UK.eek said:
Um https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-coronavirus-thursday/index.html but let's not let facts get in the way of your reality..Sean_F said:
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.RochdalePioneers said:Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse
2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you.
3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.0 -
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?0 -
What fraction of A&E admissions are from pubs?Mexicanpete said:
No. Because the pubs are closed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Does anyone go to A & E these daysMexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated0 -
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2020/06/black-lives-matter-uk-who-are-its-organisers.htmlisam said:
He's making hard work of saying what Nigel Farage said a month agoCorrectHorseBattery said:
I agree with the concept of "black lives matter", I don't agree with the organisation "Black Lives Matter" or "Black Lives Matter UK". That's what I think Keir was getting at.rottenborough said:
What about dismantling capitalism?CorrectHorseBattery said:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1270373208475271168?s=210 -
Sir Keir?Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?0 -
Seems uncorrelated.eek said:
Reopening the shops in Florida occurred in May - 6-8 weeks later there is a new surge in cases..RobD said:
I think Sean is talking about cases and shops in the UK.eek said:
Um https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-coronavirus-thursday/index.html but let's not let facts get in the way of your reality..Sean_F said:
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.RochdalePioneers said:Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse
2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you.
3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.0 -
Especially as it's Sir Keir if one is being remotely polite. Or SKS for brevity.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?1 -
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?1 -
Veep betting. Demings has drifted out into double figures. Rice clear 2nd fav at moment.0
-
We've only had quarantine for a few weeks and we are already giving it up with the majority of countries that we actually go to or people come from (apart from the US). We have had months to set up an effective trace, test and isolate system. It hasn't been done so far as I can see. We are incurring public debt at the rate of £50bn a month. More businesses are collapsing every day, Café Rouge yesterday. How long are you prepared to wait?Stereotomy said:
Or we quarantine arrivals and continue most lockdown measures until we've got our shit together on test and trace, and our numbers low enough so that we can do that effectively.DavidL said:The reality is that this virus is a very long way from being beaten. Worldwide, we have gone from breaking 10m recorded cases last weekend to 11m yesterday. The number of new cases per day is accelerating. Given that it seems beyond us to quarantine arrivals further outbreaks are inevitable until we find a cure.
So what do we do? Do we keep a tight lockdown (and quarantine) in the hope we can eliminate the virus locally like NZ? Or do we accept that in a country like the UK that way lies economic ruin and almost certainly no success in any event?
We have no choice but to unwind the lockdown. We need our economy to start moving again. That includes pubs, restaurants and hairdressers. There is no magical solution or system that makes this safe. We really just have to accept that. The risk individually is very low but some will be unlucky and some of those will die. That's the way it is.1 -
Possibly a large percentage on Saturday night. We shall seeRobD said:
What fraction of A&E admissions are from pubs?Mexicanpete said:
No. Because the pubs are closed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Does anyone go to A & E these daysMexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Good morning.0 -
But y has happened.RochdalePioneers said:
The cretinous bumbling wazzock has killed tens of thousands of people by mismanaging this pandemic. Having finally got on top of it and locked us down we started to reduce the numbers. But they are still orders of magnitude above numbers in countries not run by fools. We can't copy them and unlock yet because according to his government's own process we haven't got on top of it. Whats the point of saying "if x then y" back in May and then bin that off and tell people its their patriotic duty to drink when y hasn't happened?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
As the Ferrari car crash interview detailed there are a lot of sectors they have kept locked down. So we need to keep locked down a few more bits to squash the virus instead of letting it surge back and do "whack-a-mole". "I'm sorry our actions have killed your father and that our mallet missed that particular mole" is NOT a strategy. You want to see what happens when you unlock too early? 10k new cases a day in Florida. Is that what you want here?0 -
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuitioneek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sectoreek said:
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.OldKingCole said:
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.eek said:
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Schools are open and have been all alongMexicanpete said:
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.0 -
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?0 -
That's not a brand. And I don't see it becoming one.Mexicanpete said:
Sir Keir?Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?0 -
You could follow DuraAce`s example and just call him "the fat fuck", kinabalu.kinabalu said:
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?1 -
Because they won’t have a queue of parents asking for refunds if they don’t?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuitioneek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sectoreek said:
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.OldKingCole said:
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.eek said:
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Schools are open and have been all alongMexicanpete said:
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
0 -
Actually it is much more salient than thatMexicanpete said:
No. Because the pubs are closed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Does anyone go to A & E these daysMexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated0 -
Size of the private school, size of classes, number of teaching and support staff, availability of computers at student houses / school for loan etc etc etc.eek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
Why haven't state schools done more online tuition? On the laptops their students didn't have and the government finally started to supply a few weeks ago in limited numbers...0 -
Yes, although I think some people do generally refer to him as Keir, or Sir Keir. It's one of those things people get very sensitive about because they think people are incredibly stupid. 'Don't play into Boris's hands you sheeple' patronising atttiude.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?1 -
It's correlated isn't it in that it's all taking place in Florida? Whether any causation is involved...RobD said:
Seems uncorrelated.eek said:
Reopening the shops in Florida occurred in May - 6-8 weeks later there is a new surge in cases..RobD said:
I think Sean is talking about cases and shops in the UK.eek said:
Um https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-coronavirus-thursday/index.html but let's not let facts get in the way of your reality..Sean_F said:
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.RochdalePioneers said:Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse
2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you.
3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.0 -
A good article on the extreme unlikelihood of Trump pulling out of the race:
No, Trump Isn’t Going to Drop Out
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/07/01/no-trump-isnt-going-to-drop-out-347509
...With this rationalization in his back pocket, there’s no reason for Trump to forgo any chance whatever of remaining the most talked-about man on the planet for the next four years by dropping out based on early summer polling.
The anonymous Republicans chattering about this scenario surely are wish-casting and assume some other—any other—GOP presidential candidate would be better for the party’s chances. This, too, is doubtful.
How would the great drop-and-switch even work? The party would be implicitly conceding that the incumbent Republican president was such a disaster that he couldn’t even run for a second term—and then turn around and ask voters for four more years of yet another Republican president.
One of the points of this exercise would be to repudiate Trump, but how could the party plausibly do that after loyally and enthusiastically backing him for four years?...
So the chances of his getting pushed aside are also extremely low.2 -
An increasingly tarnished one. It will eventually become synonymous with being lazy and ineffectual. Parents in future will say to their teenagers " come on Boris get out of bed and do something useful"kinabalu said:
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?2 -
Indeed. Just as the beachgoers being eaten by Jaws was uncorrelated by the mayor reopening the Amity beaches. Nothing to see here. Move along.RobD said:
Seems uncorrelated.eek said:
Reopening the shops in Florida occurred in May - 6-8 weeks later there is a new surge in cases..RobD said:
I think Sean is talking about cases and shops in the UK.eek said:
Um https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-coronavirus-thursday/index.html but let's not let facts get in the way of your reality..Sean_F said:
Why would we be like Florida? The number of deaths and new cases has been falling away sharply. Re-opening the shops did not lead to a surge in new cases.RochdalePioneers said:Of course the economy is a problem. Thousands of jobs going every day in retail and hospitality and this feels like only the start of it. We shouldn't be here as we should have broken the back of the virus like other have. But we are where we are. So what choices do we have?
1. Fuck it. Reopen everything like Trumpy loons have done in America. And in a few weeks watch us be like Florida. We'll not save the economy by killing people en-masse
2. A whack-a-mole reopening. Get out there and spend your sodding money. If you die then you should be supporting the government for all the things they have done. How to stay safe is up to you.
3. A tightly controlled reopening. You MUST wear a mask in buildings and on public transport with large summary fines for not doing so.
That the bumbling fool is doing 2 is no surprise. When the only detail he knows is what he made up and gets sacked for we knew this would be a problem. And 6 months from now the next financial calamity where no deal is a "very good option". That we can't possibly build recruit program and implement a physical border in 6 months is just detail he doen't understand. When the ports and trade and logistics immediately grind to a halt blaming the EU won't get him very far.0 -
Mexicanpete said:
Possibly a large percentage on Saturday night. We shall seeRobD said:
What fraction of A&E admissions are from pubs?Mexicanpete said:
No. Because the pubs are closed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Does anyone go to A & E these daysMexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
Good morning.
Tired: Standing on doorstep, clapping NHS workers, tears of gratitude rolling down your cheeks.
Wired: Punching NHS worker in A+E because you are too drunk to see straight.
Hope I am wrong.
1 -
Relatedly, thing in Politico on 🦆rottenborough said:Veep betting. Demings has drifted out into double figures. Rice clear 2nd fav at moment.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/tammy-duckworth-biden-vice-president-running-mate/613753/0 -
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?kinabalu said:
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
1 -
It's another badly written article.Philip_Thompson said:
How are products made in Japan or South Korea if they're part of the domestic car industry?Scott_xP said:Products from Japan or South Korea would be stamped “Made in Britain”, under Boris Johnson’s plan to save the domestic car industry after Brexit.
The proposal is an attempt to prevent punishing tariffs driving away the likes of Nissan and Toyota, but will sound “ridiculous” to voters promised huge benefits from leaving the EU, one trade expert said.
It also means the UK is effectively asking the EU for the benefits of a customs union, a new analysis says – despite the prime minister insisting the UK is leaving the trading arrangement.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/car-industry-boris-johnson-made-in-britain-japan-south-korea-brexit-a9598466.html
"I don't believe in gestures..."
Does domestic now mean Japan or South Korea?
The question is at what content level* a product is "made in country X".
*And how do you measure content - weight, value (whose valuation) etc etc??2 -
Boris is Boris and as much as some want to resile from that it will not happennichomar said:
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
He will always be Boris in the public's perception1 -
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.4 -
Stocky said:
You could follow DuraAce`s example and just call him "the fat fuck", kinabalu.kinabalu said:
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ? - Leave that to him. He can do that stuff. I'm not a potty mouth. 0 -
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".MaxPB said:
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.0 -
Nice, the emoji worked, testing the other candidatesedmundintokyo said:
Relatedly, thing in Politico on 🦆rottenborough said:Veep betting. Demings has drifted out into double figures. Rice clear 2nd fav at moment.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/tammy-duckworth-biden-vice-president-running-mate/613753/
🦆 Tammy Duckworth
👮♀️ Kamala Harris
🍚 Susan Rice
☃️ Amy KLOBUCHAR1 -
Of course they are.nichomar said:
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
You are just one of many who dislike Boris with a passion but sadly for you he will always be known as Boris1 -
I don’t think most Irish or Scottish people have any problem with English nationalism. We would welcome that English people started displaying more self-respect and self-worth, and the English nation has just as much right to continue to exist and flourish as any other nation.FF43 said:
Because the Conservative Party that Cummings has engineered into a UKIP takeover with Johnson substituting for Farage definitely isn't Liberal Unionist. English nationalism, as you can imagine, goes down badly in Scotland and Ireland. I am sure Johnson does see Global Britain in a Brexit world as a meaningful thing and wants to keep the Union.RochdalePioneers said:An interesting read Stodge! Question - if Johnson is a Liberal Unionist why is he doing so much to wreck the Union?
But he, his government and his party are destroying the Union. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
What we object to is that the Conservative Party that Cummings has engineered into a UKIP takeover isn’t English nationalist but British nationalist, which goes down badly in many more countries than simply Ireland or Scotland.2 -
Not glib, just not bothered by sore losers whinging about the result.IanB2 said:
Your comments on this topic are always exceptionally glib, as well as often incorrect. As we saw in 1983, the system protects the two major parties even when a third party runs them close. Such results force people back into choosing between the existing two main parties, and hence there is a vicious circle.Philip_Thompson said:
Either campaign for another party and convince others to do the same ... Or join one of those two and try and change it from within.IanB2 said:
'tis the way our crooked system works. Other than campaigning to change the system, what else are you supposed to do if you look at Tory and Labour and find them equally abhorrent and incompetent?algarkirk said:
It must be nice to be the party whose only function is, by how their votes affects the other parties' results, to decide which of the other parties forms the government that completely ignores them. It is remarkable that anyone would want to spend their lives campaigning for this great purpose.Andy_JS said:ElectoralCalculus's latest polling average is showing a swing of 4% from LD to Lab since the general election. Whether that's because the LDs are waiting for their new leader to be announced is an interesting question.
There's nothing magical about Tories and Labour that mean they need to be two main parties. Only reason they are is because most people want to vote for one or the other.
In 1983 the Alliance lost. Tough. Either convince more next time, or don't.
Had the Alliance performed better as polls had indicated earlier in the Parliament they could have surged and achieved a massive breakthrough like the SNP did in 2015. They didn't though, they lost. That's all.0 -
I actually do think preserving the integrity of words is quite important but I get this point of yours - crass pedantry - also.NickPalmer said:
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".MaxPB said:
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
It reminds me a little of -
"It shouldn't be Black Lives Matter, it should be Black Lives Matter too."0 -
It'll vary from place to place, but a lot of schools serve families where there simply isn't enough tech at home to support zoom lessons. Smartphones, yes. Multiple laptops with big enough screens to do online lessons, no.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuitioneek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sectoreek said:
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.OldKingCole said:
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.eek said:
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Schools are open and have been all alongMexicanpete said:
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/third-of-pupils-arent-engaging-with-schoolwork-and-4-more-home-learning-findings/1 -
'Groomed by a political predator' [!] You'll want to be making vinegar out of those grapes...OnlyLivingBoy said:
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.1 -
Some like you, see it as a term of appreciation and affection. Personally I see you referring to him as such as demeaning yourself and he. You do not know him (unless you wish to tell us otherwise). He is a joke, and you don't seem to realise that the more you call him "Boris" the more he sounds like the clown that many of us long ago realised he is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris is Boris and as much as some want to resile from that it will not happennichomar said:
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
He will always be Boris in the public's perception0 -
It is fair to say our sons school has provided laptops to all their students and this is something HMG should fund to the state sector schools to develop wide scale on line tuition.RochdalePioneers said:
Size of the private school, size of classes, number of teaching and support staff, availability of computers at student houses / school for loan etc etc etc.eek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
Why haven't state schools done more online tuition? On the laptops their students didn't have and the government finally started to supply a few weeks ago in limited numbers...0 -
To the gullible perhaps. Oh, so sorry, I am sure that doesn't include you, oh wait..whoops!BluestBlue said:
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?kinabalu said:
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...0 -
Indeed. Whilst I have been in favour of STV for a long time you can't argue against the reality of the SNP breaking out to become the dominant party in Scotland under FPTP. Why have other parties (whether the Alliance, UKIP, Brexit or the LibDems) failed to do so? Because the two big parties have been flexible enough to largely adopt the policies of the smaller competing party and hoover up their voters.Philip_Thompson said:
Not glib, just not bothered by sore losers whinging about the result.IanB2 said:
Your comments on this topic are always exceptionally glib, as well as often incorrect. As we saw in 1983, the system protects the two major parties even when a third party runs them close. Such results force people back into choosing between the existing two main parties, and hence there is a vicious circle.Philip_Thompson said:
Either campaign for another party and convince others to do the same ... Or join one of those two and try and change it from within.IanB2 said:
'tis the way our crooked system works. Other than campaigning to change the system, what else are you supposed to do if you look at Tory and Labour and find them equally abhorrent and incompetent?algarkirk said:
It must be nice to be the party whose only function is, by how their votes affects the other parties' results, to decide which of the other parties forms the government that completely ignores them. It is remarkable that anyone would want to spend their lives campaigning for this great purpose.Andy_JS said:ElectoralCalculus's latest polling average is showing a swing of 4% from LD to Lab since the general election. Whether that's because the LDs are waiting for their new leader to be announced is an interesting question.
There's nothing magical about Tories and Labour that mean they need to be two main parties. Only reason they are is because most people want to vote for one or the other.
In 1983 the Alliance lost. Tough. Either convince more next time, or don't.
Had the Alliance performed better as polls had indicated earlier in the Parliament they could have surged and achieved a massive breakthrough like the SNP did in 2015. They didn't though, they lost. That's all.2 -
Also a lot of equipment just isn't available at the moment, if I was to order my usual laptop for new staff members I've currently got a 5 week wait.Stuartinromford said:
It'll vary from place to place, but a lot of schools serve families where there simply isn't enough tech at home to support zoom lessons. Smartphones, yes. Multiple laptops with big enough screens to do online lessons, no.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuitioneek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sectoreek said:
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.OldKingCole said:
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.eek said:
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Schools are open and have been all alongMexicanpete said:
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/third-of-pupils-arent-engaging-with-schoolwork-and-4-more-home-learning-findings/1 -
Your last paragraph is utter garbageOnlyLivingBoy said:
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.2 -
Where do we get the australian style mining material volume from to replicate their relationship with the rest of the world ?Scott_xP said:0 -
I think the issue here is one of trying to argue a complex issue with people who won't and don't want to listen or understand.NickPalmer said:
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".MaxPB said:
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
From memory Starkey's whole point is something like:-
Tribe A wishes to expand and get access to something (say a lake) on Tribe B's land. With slavery Tribe A was able to remove Tribe B from the land without killing all of Tribe B (while making a profit as well but that's by the by).
Without slavery Tribe A would have just killed all of Tribe B instead. So while slavery is bad it's not quite as bad as the other option..1 -
Off topic.
Just watched murder in the car park on channel 4 .Still on all 4.
The murder happened in 1987.
Sill no conviction after millions spent on it.
The talk of police corruption, links to the media, private investigation, was disturbing.
Fascinating watch.0 -
You're the one referring to someone you have never met and who has immense power over all of our lives as if he is your mate, and have no curiosity or concern over how that has happened or whether such a state of affairs is primarily to his benefit or to yours.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Your last paragraph is utter garbageOnlyLivingBoy said:
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.1 -
As I said, I think people who are trying to extend the use of the word genocide to slavery or the slave trade are just going to make themselves look foolish. Look at how all of the official BLM communication has backfired in the last couple of weeks.NickPalmer said:
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".MaxPB said:
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.
As for Starkey, yes, I think it's clear he's racist which is quite disappointing. It would be interesting to find out what is driving his prejudice and I'd love to sit down and pick his brains on why he feels the way he does, as a clearly very intelligent person I'd love to get his perspective.0 -
That is just your dislike of him coming through and I will continue to refer to him as BorisNigel_Foremain said:
Some like you, see it as a term of appreciation and affection. Personally I see you referring to him as such as demeaning yourself and he. You do not know him (unless you wish to tell us otherwise). He is a joke, and you don't seem to realise that the more you call him "Boris" the more he sounds like the clown that many of us long ago realised he is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris is Boris and as much as some want to resile from that it will not happennichomar said:
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
He will always be Boris in the public's perception
At the same time I do not think he is the right person in the office at this moment in time and hope that post 31st December he stands down.
Even if and when that happens he will still be Boris0 -
I refer to people all the time by the first name and they aren't necessarily my mates.OnlyLivingBoy said:
You're the one referring to someone you have never met and who has immense power over all of our lives as if he is your mate, and have no curiosity or concern over how that has happened or whether such a state of affairs is primarily to his benefit or to yours.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Your last paragraph is utter garbageOnlyLivingBoy said:
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.1 -
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.BluestBlue said:
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?kinabalu said:
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).3 -
Actually all the laptops at my sons school are the same and on a contract lease with new ones every 3 yearseek said:
Also a lot of equipment just isn't available at the moment, if I was to order my usual laptop for new staff members I've currently got a 5 week wait.Stuartinromford said:
It'll vary from place to place, but a lot of schools serve families where there simply isn't enough tech at home to support zoom lessons. Smartphones, yes. Multiple laptops with big enough screens to do online lessons, no.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuitioneek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sectoreek said:
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.OldKingCole said:
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.eek said:
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Schools are open and have been all alongMexicanpete said:
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/third-of-pupils-arent-engaging-with-schoolwork-and-4-more-home-learning-findings/0 -
A joke who won a 80 seat majority to become PM and two mayoral elections in a Labour city. An incredibly succesful Joke?Nigel_Foremain said:
Some like you, see it as a term of appreciation and affection. Personally I see you referring to him as such as demeaning yourself and he. You do not know him (unless you wish to tell us otherwise). He is a joke, and you don't seem to realise that the more you call him "Boris" the more he sounds like the clown that many of us long ago realised he is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris is Boris and as much as some want to resile from that it will not happennichomar said:
No they are not it’s in built positive Johnson bias, it should be consistent whatever you choose to call them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
He will always be Boris in the public's perception1 -
There are items of value even in rubbish dumps.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Your last paragraph is utter garbageOnlyLivingBoy said:
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.0 -
Of course, wiping them out would have destroyed a valuable commodity, so the fact that they didn't hardly signals the presence of some kind of 'genocide would be a step too far' compassion.NickPalmer said:
I agree in principle but Starkey making these sort of points feels like cold semantics in the face of horror, like saying to a gang victim who says he was tortured, "Well, that's not exactly torture in the correct meaning of the word, it's more like repeated grievous bodily harm".. Preserving the precise meaning of language is important, but if genocide is used as a generic word for "causing terrible suffering and death for millions of people of a particular race" I think we get the idea, and it's unhelpfully academic to quibble "but they weren't actually trying to wipe them out".MaxPB said:
But we do actually class what happened in Rwanda as genocide. People trying to extend that definition to slavery are cheapening the term and by extension making it a less serious charge both historically and for the future should it happen again.
It's like those animal rights weirdos trying to call people eating meat a Holocaust for animals. It isn't, all it does is make them look crazy.1 -
Again utter garbageOnlyLivingBoy said:
You're the one referring to someone you have never met and who has immense power over all of our lives as if he is your mate, and have no curiosity or concern over how that has happened or whether such a state of affairs is primarily to his benefit or to yours.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Your last paragraph is utter garbageOnlyLivingBoy said:
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.1 -
No cheating, now!
What were the given first names of:
Keir Hardie
Ramsay MacDonald
Harold Wilson
Gordon Brown
that they all dropped to create a more appealing persona?
The idea that Boris is some unique exploiter of the technique while other politicians, especially Labour ones, are just plain unvarnished articles sounds awfully like - what's the word? - gaslighting...
2 -
Sadly it’s not that simple, as I’m sure your son would attest. There’s supply chain issues at the moment, thanks to all the disruption. Computers can’t simply be given to kids without an amount of configuration and management, which in many cases isn’t configured to work with computers based remotely.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is fair to say our sons school has provided laptops to all their students and this is something HMG should fund to the state sector schools to develop wide scale on line tuition.RochdalePioneers said:
Size of the private school, size of classes, number of teaching and support staff, availability of computers at student houses / school for loan etc etc etc.eek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
Why haven't state schools done more online tuition? On the laptops their students didn't have and the government finally started to supply a few weeks ago in limited numbers...
Give an unrestricted computer to a teenager, and you can pretty much guarantee it will be an unusable mess full of porn and viruses within a few days - alongside stories in the Daily Mail of outraged parents whose school didn’t lock down the computer properly.1 -
Nobody wants to admit they're getting played.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Again utter garbageOnlyLivingBoy said:
You're the one referring to someone you have never met and who has immense power over all of our lives as if he is your mate, and have no curiosity or concern over how that has happened or whether such a state of affairs is primarily to his benefit or to yours.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Your last paragraph is utter garbageOnlyLivingBoy said:
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.0 -
That's very well put. Not pulling your punches as perhaps I am too prone to do sometimes.OnlyLivingBoy said:
"Boris" is the name of the act. Use of the first name is designed to disarm, render the subject more approachable and less threatening, less subject to normal scrutiny, standards or constraints. Not a politician, more like an entertainer. Someone you could have a drink with. Someone a bit naughty. Somebody who doesn't need to be well briefed because oh look he's saying something funny. In short, entirely in line with his whole, remarkably successful, political strategy.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Boris and Starmer are the public recognisable namesYorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
People are free to call him what they like, but if you call him Boris you're simply signalling that you've been groomed by a political predator and your views can be discounted appropriately.
We can be hard cop soft cop on this one.1 -
Agreed. I have always preferred calling him "Johnson", particularly as it is a colloquialism in the US for penis. It is so obsequious when followers of an individual they don't know refer to their idol by their first name.kinabalu said:
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.BluestBlue said:
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?kinabalu said:
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).
Exactly the same as the unthinking moronic lefties who refer to Corbyn as "Jeremy" or even Jezza. He is Corbyn - an extremely thick ex-leader of the Labour Party who allowed Johnson, a lazy and incompetent narcissist to become PM.1 -
Just how childish are you?Nigel_Foremain said:
Agreed. I have always preferred calling him "Johnson", particularly as it is a colloquialism in the US for penis. It is so obsequious when followers of an individual they don't know refer to their idol by their first name.kinabalu said:
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.BluestBlue said:
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?kinabalu said:
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).
Exactly the same as the unthinking moronic lefties who refer to Corbyn as "Jeremy" or even Jezza. He is Corbyn - an extremely thick ex-leader of the Labour Party who allowed Johnson, a lazy and incompetent narcissist to become PM.1 -
Perhaps also relevantly to PB [edit], it is also arguably a courtesy on a site such as PB with a range of political affiliations, not to use a nickname that is abusive in some way (whether negatively or positively to the other side). And sensible too if one wants to be taken more seriously.kinabalu said:
It's not his fault at all. He's built a best-selling brand and hats off to him for it.BluestBlue said:
Remember 'Not Flash, Just Gordon'?kinabalu said:
A bit more to it than that. "Boris" is a brand - and a very powerful one.Philip_Thompson said:
Because some people are known by their forename, some by the surname. Get over it.Yorkcity said:
Starmer , Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nobody is encouraging idiots but we just have to start opening our economy.Mexicanpete said:
Let's assume that is correct. It is still a poor justification for encouraging idiots to get rat-arsed.RobD said:
They are probably better prepared than ever. No one is doing anything so admissions are way down!Mexicanpete said:
Let's see how A and E copes on Saturday. Let's hope you are right and I am wrong.RobD said:
Why? If people want to go there are more hours in the day for them to do it. Otherwise it'd be a mad rush starting at 5pm.Mexicanpete said:
Yes it is a balance of risk, and yes we need to return to normal as best we can. However, the wizard wheeze gesture of opening the pubs on (American) Independence Day, which falls, this year on a Saturday is foolhardy in the extreme.RobD said:
Of course there is a balance, but the incidence of the virus is so low that the rewards likely outweigh the risk. If you required that the hospitality sector remain shut until there was no risk, it would probably be another year before they were open.Mexicanpete said:
That is a failed argument, on your own terms.RobD said:
Yeah, let's just keep everything shut forever until there is zero risk.Mexicanpete said:
For goodness sake! The 70% staying at home are not the ones we need worry about.RobD said:
And most pub-goers are not going to the pub tomorrow.NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
If it's going to make so little difference economically, which is your defence of the policy, why are we taking the risk?
You have said it is safe because hardly anyone will go out, which defeats the economic argument. I am saying those desperate to get to drinking establishments are the very people common sense tells us would those that would be best advised to stay away. A and E will be buzzing on Saturday, so I suppose some economic activity will be generated
I would expect Starmer to be following a similar path to Boris but Boris has an army of remainers and the left who dislike him with a passion and that dislike takes away rational argument
Why the difference in using surnames ?
It's not Boris' fault that he can actually do branding...
All I'm seeking to do is tip off those who are not his supporters but are buying into the brand - by promulgating its "Boris" labeling - that this is what they are doing.
For these people the switch from "Boris" to "Johnson" might feel awkward at first - a little forced - but as with many good habits perseverance will pay off and once it's established they will feel better in themselves and will never look back.
And if enough do it, it will cost Bor ... Johnson big time. In fact it could all but kill him off imo. That's the prize.
BTW, I am pursuing this initiative in flesh & blood life too, not just on here. If somebody in my presence calls him "Boris", I ask them if they are a supporter of his or the Cons. If the answer to this is "No", then I tip them off. Not tick them off, please note, I tip them off (as above).1 -
My son, as head of IT, has addressed all those issues and the new contract provides new laptops every three years to all staff and students fully configuredSandpit said:
Sadly it’s not that simple, as I’m sure your son would attest. There’s supply chain issues at the moment, thanks to all the disruption. Computers can’t simply be given to kids without an amount of configuration and management, which in many cases isn’t configured to work with computers based remotely.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is fair to say our sons school has provided laptops to all their students and this is something HMG should fund to the state sector schools to develop wide scale on line tuition.RochdalePioneers said:
Size of the private school, size of classes, number of teaching and support staff, availability of computers at student houses / school for loan etc etc etc.eek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sector
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
Why haven't state schools done more online tuition? On the laptops their students didn't have and the government finally started to supply a few weeks ago in limited numbers...
Give an unrestricted computer to a teenager, and you can pretty much guarantee it will be an unusable mess full of porn and viruses within a few days - alongside stories in the Daily Mail of outraged parents whose school didn’t lock down the computer properly.0 -
That won't be cheap - where would a typical school find the £360-700 a year the lease is costing the private school..Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually all the laptops at my sons school are the same and on a contract lease with new ones every 3 yearseek said:
Also a lot of equipment just isn't available at the moment, if I was to order my usual laptop for new staff members I've currently got a 5 week wait.Stuartinromford said:
It'll vary from place to place, but a lot of schools serve families where there simply isn't enough tech at home to support zoom lessons. Smartphones, yes. Multiple laptops with big enough screens to do online lessons, no.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not disagree but my sons school is taking children from the state sector during this crisis and the questioned posed is why are state schools not using more online tuitioneek said:
So you are looking at your private school where all parents can easily provide online access and assume that everyone is in the same position...Big_G_NorthWales said:
My sons school is in the private sector and has been educating it's students on line and at the same time educating pupils in the emergency sectoreek said:
Teachers are doing their best (and as you say probably working longer hours) but that isn't the same as schools being open - which is what BigG was implying - that statement is simply not true and it's a great hassle for a lot of people, not just children and teachers but also parents who are having to entertain children, teach them and work at the same time.OldKingCole said:
Many teachers, especially in primary schools have been working longer hours over the past few weeks. I part because they have to chase up individual children on their iPads etc.eek said:
Schools are not open - only in very limited situations (special needs, key workers and some years occasionally - for my children it's 2 hours a week per topic, for years 7-9 there is virtually nothing).Big_G_NorthWales said:
Schools are open and have been all alongMexicanpete said:
Well BigG. the defenders of the policy are saying, no one is going to the pub anyway, so it will be safe. So in that case, what is the point. It is just a grand gesture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Genuine questionRochdalePioneers said:
No no. Apparently 70% of people say they aren't ready to go to the pub yet, so the 30% determined to get shitfaced with the boys and make a nuisance of themselves and spread the pox will behave. Obviously.Mexicanpete said:
That has the recipe for even greater chaos written all over it. Arriving at the pub on Saturday, only to find it closed, will raise frustration. Onto the next to find it open, but not allowing "the boys" in due to social distancing rules, well they'll just go home a little disappointed, won't they?NerysHughes said:
Most pubs are not opening tomorrowRochdalePioneers said:
Oh come on. They KNOW people will get shitfaced. They WANT people to get shitfaced. Its our patriotic duty to get shitfaced. JRM has bought a yard glass for shitfacery purposes. Mrs Gove wants to get back to a normal where shitfaced people have a good old fashioned British fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The criminal stupidity is if the public abuse the situation.rottenborough said:
Johnson has just been on radio saying that it is not a licence to get s***faced.Mexicanpete said:
Fantastic news! Does that mean we can all follow Boris' earlier advice and spend our way out of recession, down the pub? I have read that as a government invitation to get absolutely s***faced on Saturday, I suspect I am not alone.NerysHughes said:
The key stat for me has always been the number of people admitted to hospital as I have always been unsure of the accuracy of the Covid test. For information there is now not a single Covid patient in any of Hampshire hospitals. So thats a County with a population of 2.1 million with no Covid inpatients.MaxPB said:So at a stroke we have 30k fewer cases. I wonder how much damage has been done to the UK because of this unnecessary double counting. If we'd been reporting these accurate figures for the last month would the UK still be seen as a leper colony like Leicester?
Perhaps he should have thought of that before deciding to open pubs on a Saturday. Criminal levels of stupidity.
In the recent poll 59% would blame the public if we have to go into lockdown again
Shitfaced people spend money in the economy. Shitfaced people get merry and forget their troubles. The entire reason for 4th of July is to have a big party to show how normal things are. The idea that its the fault of the public for running out of their cage when you open the cage is absurd. And Shagger knows it. He's taking you for a fool mate.
Would you seek an extension to lockdown and see even more devastation to jobs and peoples health, and how would you open our economy and when
We can't open schools, but we can open pubs. I am not sure we have our priorities right.
However, just how long do you think we can keep our economy closed and how many millions of jobs are you willing to lose in the process
It does raise the questions why state schools have not done more on line tuition
Everything looks rosy when you have money and live in a large house with a large garden on the edge of a small (fairly wealth) town. The rest of the world isn't like that a lot of locals to you could testify.
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/third-of-pupils-arent-engaging-with-schoolwork-and-4-more-home-learning-findings/
Congratulations you've found a solution to a problem, shame the solution is going to add a £xbn to the education bill...1 -
Nobody is saying that he has to be called Alexander Johnson though are they, so not sure what point you're making here Blue. Or perhaps you prefer Bluest?BluestBlue said:No cheating, now!
What were the given first names of:
Keir Hardie
Ramsay MacDonald
Harold Wilson
Gordon Brown
that they all dropped to create a more appealing persona?
The idea that Boris is some unique exploiter of the technique while other politicians, especially Labour ones, are just plain unvarnished articles sounds awfully like - what's the word? - gaslighting...0 -
Its been a disaster for our kids, and as usual the kids who most needed the support won't have got it. And yet the solution is not to rip up the rules and send them all back. The guidelines talk about keeping kids separate on school buses - doesn't say how of course. And that they keep apart in the canteens - doesn't say how of course. etc etceek said:
Also a lot of equipment just isn't available at the moment, if I was to order my usual laptop for new staff members I've currently got a 5 week wait.Stuartinromford said:
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/third-of-pupils-arent-engaging-with-schoolwork-and-4-more-home-learning-findings/0 -
The tough answer is 'there isn't a way'. And thats going to have to be how it is, just no one wants to admit it.RochdalePioneers said:
Its been a disaster for our kids, and as usual the kids who most needed the support won't have got it. And yet the solution is not to rip up the rules and send them all back. The guidelines talk about keeping kids separate on school buses - doesn't say how of course. And that they keep apart in the canteens - doesn't say how of course. etc etceek said:
Also a lot of equipment just isn't available at the moment, if I was to order my usual laptop for new staff members I've currently got a 5 week wait.Stuartinromford said:
The government set up a laptop scheme, but it's taking a long time to get going and is probably insufficient. Some more details here:
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/third-of-pupils-arent-engaging-with-schoolwork-and-4-more-home-learning-findings/1 -
James, James, James and James.BluestBlue said:No cheating, now!
What were the given first names of:
Keir Hardie
Ramsay MacDonald
Harold Wilson
Gordon Brown
that they all dropped to create a more appealing persona?
The idea that Boris is some unique exploiter of the technique while other politicians, especially Labour ones, are just plain unvarnished articles sounds awfully like - what's the word? - gaslighting...
It’s rather amusing to watch people get completely wound up by names used for certain people - when in any other situation they’d say that we should absolutely call them whatever name they want us to use!1
This discussion has been closed.