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  • TresTres Posts: 2,159
    It's 2020 and some people on this site still think it is appropriate to use the n word in a professional setting. Unbelievable.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,920
    Still missing the Thursday night by election threads. So a quick politics quiz. Which current Lib Dem MP has the largest numerical majority? It might surprise you. Who is second on the list?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    kicorse said:

    Re the Raab/Game of Thrones comment, the initial gesture was in fact to sit.

    Colin Kaepernick remained seated during the anthem during a preseason NFL game. After some outrage that this was supposedly an insult to veterans, and with the support of Green Beret (special ops in the US military) Nate Boyer, he switched to kneeling, and others followed his lead. It was clearly a more respectful gesture that still made the point. The change entirely failed to stop the hate directed at him.

    It makes me laugh, albeit hollowly, that the gesture is now being criticised as subservient. But I guess the purpose of the comment was to try to provoke outrage from the left, because, as was mentioned in the podcast, the Tories know that they benefit from this sort of stuff.

    Many black Americans also see it as indicating subservience in the context of white police officers and officials and believe it hinders rather than advances their cause.
    Indeed. It isn't helpful and choosing not to do it shouldn't be a sign of implicit racism.

    I wouldn't. But I would be happy to walk arm in arm with protestors.
    Really? Given what you might catch these days?
    Was the GoT remark meant to deadcat this? So hard to tell with this government.
    Can someone explain to me how Dominic Raab thinking that the kneeling is like something from Game of Thrones is so incendiary? I don't watch Game of Thrones - decided it wasn't worth watching in series one when the princess woman laid a dragon.
    Can someone tell me why everybody is queueing up today today to tell us that they know deductively and intuitively that GoT is dreadful when they've never fucking watched it? OK the dragon fucking is a serious blemish but (for instance) the Red Wedding is one of the absolute all time greats bits of cinema.

    Incendiary isn't the word, it's just bloody weird. Analogy: in my late teens I went to a party somewhere in Berkshire and stopped off on the way home at 2 in the morning to have a laugh at the Greenham Common protesters. We initially had a chat with them but then they realised we were dressed in dinner jackets and black ties and one of them said "you are diplomats, aren't you? Go away!" Thinking kneeling is a GoT specific thing (which it isnt; I assume it happens from time to time, but there's nothing special about it) shows a similar grasp of how the world actually works. It's like thinking of the New World symphony as the Hovis ad music.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706
    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,836

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Mountbatten's name is mud in Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh.

    The view is his focus was on making the House of Windsor the House of Mountbatten, which is why he allowed his wife to get boffed by Nehru, rather than ensure a peaceful partition.

    Why would allowing his wife to do that, have that result?

    The fact that he bowled round the wicket does him no favours with a lot of people in those parts.
    That it caused a certain antipathy towards Nehru which led to the messy partition.
    No, I mean why would it make the HoW the HoM?
    Queen's 'tears' over Duke of Edinburgh's 'brutal' behaviour

    The Queen was reduced to tears by the Duke of Edinburgh’s “brutal” behaviour towards her when she refused to take his surname of Mountbatten, according to a new biography.

    Sally Bedell Smith even suggests that the ten-year delay between the births of the Princess Royal and the Duke of York was the result of “Philip’s anger over the Queen’s rejection of his family name”.

    Her book, Elizabeth the Queen, to be published in January, details the Duke’s deep-rooted irritation over the monarch’s decision to accept the advice of the then prime minister, Winston Churchill, by keeping the family name Windsor.

    The Duke had wanted the Royal family to be known as the House of Mountbatten when the Queen came to the throne in 1952, and complained to friends that: “I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his children. I’m nothing but a bloody amoeba.”

    Earl Mountbatten, the Duke’s uncle and mentor, believed the “delay” in the couple having any more children after the Princess Royal was a result of the Duke’s anger over the question of the family name.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/queen-elizabeth-II/8931553/Queens-tears-over-Duke-of-Edinburghs-brutal-behaviour.html

    Churchill always believed it was Mountbatten's aim to turn it into the House of Windsor.
    The Queen has major bollocks.

    Maximum respect.
    This post is just so very YOU.

    I'm reaching the sad stage where I don't even have to look at names.
    Love and kisses xxx
    Now that I wouldn’t have guessed - I am jaded no more!
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Looks like half the Tory loss has gone to the Brexit Party given the LDs are down 2% and the Tories down 4% but Labour up only 4% on its UK total
    Is the BP score in the detail?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Tres said:

    It's 2020 and some people on this site still think it is appropriate to use the n word in a professional setting. Unbelievable.

    Quotation and context are such troubling concepts, aren't they?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,836

    kicorse said:

    Re the Raab/Game of Thrones comment, the initial gesture was in fact to sit.

    Colin Kaepernick remained seated during the anthem during a preseason NFL game. After some outrage that this was supposedly an insult to veterans, and with the support of Green Beret (special ops in the US military) Nate Boyer, he switched to kneeling, and others followed his lead. It was clearly a more respectful gesture that still made the point. The change entirely failed to stop the hate directed at him.

    It makes me laugh, albeit hollowly, that the gesture is now being criticised as subservient. But I guess the purpose of the comment was to try to provoke outrage from the left, because, as was mentioned in the podcast, the Tories know that they benefit from this sort of stuff.

    Many black Americans also see it as indicating subservience in the context of white police officers and officials and believe it hinders rather than advances their cause.
    Indeed. It isn't helpful and choosing not to do it shouldn't be a sign of implicit racism.

    I wouldn't. But I would be happy to walk arm in arm with protestors.
    But some DO think it's helpful.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    slade said:

    Still missing the Thursday night by election threads. So a quick politics quiz. Which current Lib Dem MP has the largest numerical majority? It might surprise you. Who is second on the list?

    Layla Moran daisy cooper
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    40% is the lowest Tory vote share for quite some time - though it may be a Comres house effect .
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    Together with the economic situation they are not in a good place.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,920
    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    Still missing the Thursday night by election threads. So a quick politics quiz. Which current Lib Dem MP has the largest numerical majority? It might surprise you. Who is second on the list?

    Layla Moran daisy cooper
    Neither.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited June 2020
    slade said:

    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    Still missing the Thursday night by election threads. So a quick politics quiz. Which current Lib Dem MP has the largest numerical majority? It might surprise you. Who is second on the list?

    Layla Moran daisy cooper
    Neither.
    Hobhouse wrong again
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    CatMan said:
    Swing to Trump with black and Hispanic voters.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Looks like half the Tory loss has gone to the Brexit Party given the LDs are down 2% and the Tories down 4% but Labour up only 4% on its UK total
    Labour is up 3% on its 2019 GB result .
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    This is interesting.

    “ Barnier has indicated a willingness to drop the demand that the UK continue to follow EU rules on state aid in perpetuity. He is also prepared to move position on the vital subject of fish. The EU had wanted the status quo to continue but there is now a growing acceptance that this isn’t realistic, even if the coastal member states are still reluctant to accept this. These small shifts show that the Commission now understands there must be genuine negotiation.”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-a-brexit-deal-within-reach/amp?__twitter_impression=true

    If the LPF shift is genuine and not in name only then I can see a deal being done, at least an interim one that lays out a direction of travel. If it's not then we're still heading for no deal, aiui it's about the most red of red lines we have in the negotiation.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,751
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd get rid of the Monarchy on principle but I understand I'm not in tune with 99% of the country so it is something I rarely bring up.

    20-25% of the country want to abolish the monarchy IIRC.
    I am one of them.
    After this queen, who has done an excellent job.
    Can never agree that by birth one can be head of state, in a modern democracy.

    I'm open to abolishing it once the current monarch's reign is over, especially if other countries like Australia, New Zealand and Canada decide to do so.
    I most certainly am not, I think Charles will do better thsn expected and is concerned about a wide range
    of issues and has done a lot of good with the Prince's Trust and William will make a great King
    The thing is I don’t really give a damn what Charles is interested in. If he wants to change things he should stand for election. The Queen’s great strength is that doesn’t express personal views, stays above the fray and attends to the formalities with dedication, duty and discipline. I am yet to be persuaded that her son is capable of that.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Does anyone know how many covid tests are being done each day now ?
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,920
    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    Still missing the Thursday night by election threads. So a quick politics quiz. Which current Lib Dem MP has the largest numerical majority? It might surprise you. Who is second on the list?

    Layla Moran daisy cooper
    Neither.
    Hobhouse wrong again
    Close - but no cigar.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706
    edited June 2020
    CatMan said:
    Would be the highest Democratic share of the white vote and the highest Republican share of the Hispanic vote since 2008 but also the highest Republican share of the black vote since 2004.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,920
    slade said:

    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    Still missing the Thursday night by election threads. So a quick politics quiz. Which current Lib Dem MP has the largest numerical majority? It might surprise you. Who is second on the list?

    Layla Moran daisy cooper
    Neither.
    Hobhouse wrong again
    Close - but no cigar.
    Just off the top of my head I’d go for Sarah Olney as one of them.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,920

    slade said:

    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    Still missing the Thursday night by election threads. So a quick politics quiz. Which current Lib Dem MP has the largest numerical majority? It might surprise you. Who is second on the list?

    Layla Moran daisy cooper
    Neither.
    Hobhouse wrong again
    Close - but no cigar.
    Just off the top of my head I’d go for Sarah Olney as one of them.
    No
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    eadric said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    So now they’re suspending someone, for the crime of having had a black cat 60 or 70 years ago?
    I read elsewhere the issue is that he used the unabridged N word, rather than saying 'the N word' when admitting the cat's name.
    Is saying the word illegal? It wasn't even used in a derogatory context.
    If you're white, then unless you're an actor playing a racist, I don't think it's wise to ever say that particular word.
    I'm not even sure actors are safe, and there must be a few Netflix directors looking nervously at "Pulp Fiction"
    Remember Netflix sacking an executive for saying the n word in a meeting to discuss which words would be allowed on the platform uncensored and in which context.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,159
    edited June 2020
    Hobhouse and Wilson for the LD majorities. The latter is on QT this week.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,920
    slade said:

    slade said:

    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    nichomar said:

    slade said:

    Still missing the Thursday night by election threads. So a quick politics quiz. Which current Lib Dem MP has the largest numerical majority? It might surprise you. Who is second on the list?

    Layla Moran daisy cooper
    Neither.
    Hobhouse wrong again
    Close - but no cigar.
    Just off the top of my head I’d go for Sarah Olney as one of them.
    No
    Oh well. Only seven left!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    eadric said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    So now they’re suspending someone, for the crime of having had a black cat 60 or 70 years ago?
    I read elsewhere the issue is that he used the unabridged N word, rather than saying 'the N word' when admitting the cat's name.
    Is saying the word illegal? It wasn't even used in a derogatory context.
    If you're white, then unless you're an actor playing a racist, I don't think it's wise to ever say that particular word.
    I'm not even sure actors are safe, and there must be a few Netflix directors looking nervously at "Pulp Fiction"
    Tarantino gave himself that line, how long until the mob try to cancel him for complaining about the body in his garage?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eadric said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    So now they’re suspending someone, for the crime of having had a black cat 60 or 70 years ago?
    I read elsewhere the issue is that he used the unabridged N word, rather than saying 'the N word' when admitting the cat's name.
    Is saying the word illegal? It wasn't even used in a derogatory context.
    If you're white, then unless you're an actor playing a racist, I don't think it's wise to ever say that particular word.
    I'm not even sure actors are safe, and there must be a few Netflix directors looking nervously at "Pulp Fiction"
    Never mind that, there's scenes in True Romance and Hateful 8 whose only point is to experiment with how many times you can get the word "nigger", oops, hush ma mouf, the N word into one speech. Very silly and nasty. "Did you see the sign saying 'dead {N word} storage'?" in Pulp Fiction is, otoh, extremely funny. Ban me.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    I wonder if Mr Raab's statement today and evidence of the tories shedding votes to the brexit party are in any way connected.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,706
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    Nothing wrong with reading Toni Morrison either as long as you read Shakespeare and Bronte as well.

    Prevent is the law so they cannot change that
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited June 2020
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd get rid of the Monarchy on principle but I understand I'm not in tune with 99% of the country so it is something I rarely bring up.

    20-25% of the country want to abolish the monarchy IIRC.
    I am one of them.
    After this queen, who has done an excellent job.
    Can never agree that by birth one can be head of state, in a modern democracy.

    I'm open to abolishing it once the current monarch's reign is over, especially if other countries like Australia, New Zealand and Canada decide to do so.
    I most certainly am not, I think Charles will do better thsn expected and is concerned about a wide range
    of issues and has done a lot of good with the Prince's Trust and William will make a great King
    The thing is I don’t really give a damn what Charles is interested in. If he wants to change things he should stand for election. The Queen’s great strength is that doesn’t express personal views, stays above the fray and attends to the formalities with dedication, duty and discipline. I am yet to be persuaded that her son is capable of that.

    The income tax is for little people monarch got involved in the EU and Scottish Independence referendums.

    She gets involved in politics, she also her connivance in Boris Johnson's shameful prorogation.

    Gough Whitlam would also laugh at your comments.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    So now they’re suspending someone, for the crime of having had a black cat 60 or 70 years ago?
    I read elsewhere the issue is that he used the unabridged N word, rather than saying 'the N word' when admitting the cat's name.
    Is saying the word illegal? It wasn't even used in a derogatory context.
    No it's not illegal. Its also not acceptable in civilised company.

    Singing the song "Uncle Fucka" from South Park isn't illegal either, but I suspect any politician that did that in a professional meeting would be looked at askance too. And that's less offensive than the word he chose to say.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd get rid of the Monarchy on principle but I understand I'm not in tune with 99% of the country so it is something I rarely bring up.

    20-25% of the country want to abolish the monarchy IIRC.
    I am one of them.
    After this queen, who has done an excellent job.
    Can never agree that by birth one can be head of state, in a modern democracy.

    I'm open to abolishing it once the current monarch's reign is over, especially if other countries like Australia, New Zealand and Canada decide to do so.
    I most certainly am not, I think Charles will do better thsn expected and is concerned about a wide range
    of issues and has done a lot of good with the Prince's Trust and William will make a great King
    The thing is I don’t really give a damn what Charles is interested in. If he wants to change things he should stand for election. The Queen’s great strength is that doesn’t express personal views, stays above the fray and attends to the formalities with dedication, duty and discipline. I am yet to be persuaded that her son is capable of that.

    'Well, I hope people will think very carefully about the future'

    Purr.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    So now they’re suspending someone, for the crime of having had a black cat 60 or 70 years ago?
    I read elsewhere the issue is that he used the unabridged N word, rather than saying 'the N word' when admitting the cat's name.
    Is saying the word illegal? It wasn't even used in a derogatory context.
    If you're white, then unless you're an actor playing a racist, I don't think it's wise to ever say that particular word.
    I'm not even sure actors are safe, and there must be a few Netflix directors looking nervously at "Pulp Fiction"
    Remember Netflix sacking an executive for saying the n word in a meeting to discuss which words would be allowed on the platform uncensored and in which context.
    lol!!!

    Is that true?

    We have become like the Victorians during the peak of sexual puritianism, wrapping piano legs in cloth for being "suggestive" - except this is worse, because it is real, and happening now, and is potentially calamitous
    Yes, although bit more to it. He said it in a meeting as I described, then he was challenged in another meeting with HR that people had complained and he try to explain the context.

    https://news.sky.com/story/netflixs-top-spokesman-fired-over-n-word-11413920
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    eadric said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    So now they’re suspending someone, for the crime of having had a black cat 60 or 70 years ago?
    I read elsewhere the issue is that he used the unabridged N word, rather than saying 'the N word' when admitting the cat's name.
    Is saying the word illegal? It wasn't even used in a derogatory context.
    If you're white, then unless you're an actor playing a racist, I don't think it's wise to ever say that particular word.
    I'm not even sure actors are safe, and there must be a few Netflix directors looking nervously at "Pulp Fiction"
    Never mind that, there's scenes in True Romance and Hateful 8 whose only point is to experiment with how many times you can get the word "nigger", oops, hush ma mouf, the N word into one speech. Very silly and nasty. "Did you see the sign saying 'dead {N word} storage'?" in Pulp Fiction is, otoh, extremely funny. Ban me.
    You will get banned for that, very shortly.

    Sir, I salute your absurd, misguided bravery, even as the ladies under the guilllotine begin their knitting
    I shall come back stronger than you can possibly imagine. Or rather, anyone except you.
    Edit: and the hammer wielder must swear an affidavit stating that s/he did not laugh at that line the first time they saw the film.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,920
    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    This is interesting.

    “ Barnier has indicated a willingness to drop the demand that the UK continue to follow EU rules on state aid in perpetuity. He is also prepared to move position on the vital subject of fish. The EU had wanted the status quo to continue but there is now a growing acceptance that this isn’t realistic, even if the coastal member states are still reluctant to accept this. These small shifts show that the Commission now understands there must be genuine negotiation.”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-a-brexit-deal-within-reach/amp?__twitter_impression=true

    If the LPF shift is genuine and not in name only then I can see a deal being done, at least an interim one that lays out a direction of travel. If it's not then we're still heading for no deal, aiui it's about the most red of red lines we have in the negotiation.
    I think its genuine and it shows what happens when you have a backbone and are prepared to walk away. The UK holds the cards, just this time we're not folding them anymore.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    oh.
    what. a, surprise.
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,920
    Tres said:

    Hobhouse and Wilson for the LD majorities. The latter is on QT this week.

    Almost. Wilson has a 14121 majority. Hobhouse is second, Davey third. Wilson almost doubled Sir Vince's majority in Twickenham.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    So now they’re suspending someone, for the crime of having had a black cat 60 or 70 years ago?
    I read elsewhere the issue is that he used the unabridged N word, rather than saying 'the N word' when admitting the cat's name.
    Is saying the word illegal? It wasn't even used in a derogatory context.
    If you're white, then unless you're an actor playing a racist, I don't think it's wise to ever say that particular word.
    I'm not even sure actors are safe, and there must be a few Netflix directors looking nervously at "Pulp Fiction"
    Remember Netflix sacking an executive for saying the n word in a meeting to discuss which words would be allowed on the platform uncensored and in which context.
    lol!!!

    Is that true?

    We have become like the Victorians during the peak of sexual puritianism, wrapping piano legs in cloth for being "suggestive" - except this is worse, because it is real, and happening now, and is potentially calamitous
    The strange thing is that the modern puritans are openly coarse and vulgar themselves! I suppose the Victorians were too, behind closed doors
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2020
    If the n word / delictions of casual racism is a no no in tv, The Wire is going to go the way of Little Britain.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    In 2016, 70% of those who voted were white and they voted for Trump 57-37.

    Crunching the numbers, that means Trump beat Clinton by about 20 million among white voters (roughly 55 million to 35 million) but Clinton's huge margins among the other racial groups took her ahead of Trump in the wider vote.

    IF the current poll numbers are reflected among white voters Trump's majority in that group falls to less than 8 million and that spells disaster.

    Black voters represented just 12% of votes cast in 2016 and Hispanic voters cast 11% of votes so the changes in those groups, while not insignificant, just aren't as important as the change in the white vote.

    The White vote is the key - Biden knows that.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    If the n word / delictions of casual racism is a no no in tv, The Wire is going to go the way of Little Britain.

    There's a difference between a drama with warnings that it includes foul language before its played and a political meeting with a politician in general don't you think?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_xP said:
    Looks classy.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,224

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    Do they still do The Nigger of the Narcissus?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,727

    Looks classy.


  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:
    Would be the highest Democratic share of the white vote and the highest Republican share of the Hispanic vote since 2008 but also the highest Republican share of the black vote since 2004.
    70% of the votes cast in 2016 were cast by Whites. Trump won that group 57-37. Biden knows he has to close that gap and losing a little ground in other racial groups doesn't matter.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    If the n word / delictions of casual racism is a no no in tv, The Wire is going to go the way of Little Britain.

    There's a difference between a drama with warnings that it includes foul language before its played and a political meeting with a politician in general don't you think?
    I never compared the two.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    So now they’re suspending someone, for the crime of having had a black cat 60 or 70 years ago?
    I read elsewhere the issue is that he used the unabridged N word, rather than saying 'the N word' when admitting the cat's name.
    Is saying the word illegal? It wasn't even used in a derogatory context.
    If you're white, then unless you're an actor playing a racist, I don't think it's wise to ever say that particular word.
    I'm not even sure actors are safe, and there must be a few Netflix directors looking nervously at "Pulp Fiction"
    Remember Netflix sacking an executive for saying the n word in a meeting to discuss which words would be allowed on the platform uncensored and in which context.
    lol!!!

    Is that true?

    We have become like the Victorians during the peak of sexual puritianism, wrapping piano legs in cloth for being "suggestive" - except this is worse, because it is real, and happening now, and is potentially calamitous
    Yes, although bit more to it. He said it in a meeting as I described, then he was challenged in another meeting with HR that people had complained and he try to explain the context.

    https://news.sky.com/story/netflixs-top-spokesman-fired-over-n-word-11413920
    If you think this is bad go and look up the number of cases surrounding the use of the word 'niggardly' - which I hope everyone here is educated enough to know has absolutely no etymological connection to the 'N' word.

    It is sad that so many people have had their lives disrupted because others are too ill educated to know the difference.

    There is a whole wiki page on the controversies. Most, thankfully, seem to have been resolved reasonably. Some, sadly, have not.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks classy.


    It looks nothing like that?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    So now they’re suspending someone, for the crime of having had a black cat 60 or 70 years ago?
    I read elsewhere the issue is that he used the unabridged N word, rather than saying 'the N word' when admitting the cat's name.
    Fair enough, so wouldn't a warning and a gentle rap across the knuckles (bearing in mind the context in which he meant it) have been the right response?

    I don't have all the details of course.

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor is suspended after he told how he had a black cat called n****r in the 1950s during council meeting on BLM protests

    Dennis Parsons was suspended from the Liberal Democrats for using a racial slur
    He told a story about his childhood cat called n***** in a BLM council meeting
    Local party members voted to suspend his group membership on Wednesday"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8436859/Lib-Dem-councillor-suspended-told-black-cat-called-n-r-1950s.html

    This is a bit like the Liam Neeson story isn't it?

    If you admit to once having done something racist and how you learned and moved on from it that's as good as admitting you're still racist today.

    It's a remarkably unforgiving and unchristian attitude.
    That's not what he's caused offence by.

    He used the word four times, in this climate. That's incredible and naive.

    Who says "n****r" uncensored four times out loud in full, in 2020? Who doesn't say "the n-word" or something like that?
    Is that what happened?

    I didn't appreciate he used the word four times.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    Appeasement.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    Do they still do The Nigger of the Narcissus?
    Jehovah! He said Jehovah!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited June 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    £1M for this?

    It looks shit
    ttps://twitter.com/evansaviography/status/1273582731591589895

    That’s just a mock-up, but probably not a million miles away.
    It’ll likely fit in with the DfIT international branding, as seen on their site https://www.great.gov.uk/ - yes, it’s very red, white and blue.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Scott_xP said:
    Looks classy.
    Homage to the cover of Aladdin Sane. Very appropriate.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:
    Would be the highest Democratic share of the white vote and the highest Republican share of the Hispanic vote since 2008 but also the highest Republican share of the black vote since 2004.
    Why do I get the feeling that a single poll’s subsamples are about to get overanalysed to within an inch of their being?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    edited June 2020
    Oh look, guess who was another Srebrenica mitigator.

    https://twitter.com/magnitsky/status/1273680896042962946?s=20

    They were asking for it, obviously.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    MaxPB said:

    This is interesting.

    “ Barnier has indicated a willingness to drop the demand that the UK continue to follow EU rules on state aid in perpetuity. He is also prepared to move position on the vital subject of fish. The EU had wanted the status quo to continue but there is now a growing acceptance that this isn’t realistic, even if the coastal member states are still reluctant to accept this. These small shifts show that the Commission now understands there must be genuine negotiation.”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-a-brexit-deal-within-reach/amp?__twitter_impression=true

    If the LPF shift is genuine and not in name only then I can see a deal being done, at least an interim one that lays out a direction of travel. If it's not then we're still heading for no deal, aiui it's about the most red of red lines we have in the negotiation.
    I suspect enough of a fudge and long grass kicking will be achieved to sign something.

    Both sides want it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks classy.


    Was that chasing this?

  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,920

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    Do they still do The Nigger of the Narcissus?
    Heart of Darkness is a staple, but that’s about it for Conrad these days.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,702
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks classy.


    Was that chasing this?

    Hope not it would be a Hazzard
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Sir John Cass’s Foundation and Redcoat school in Stepney Green to change its name over slave trader link

    https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/sir-john-cass-redcoat-school-name-change-
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    One way I keep sane during the madness of the Wokegasm is to keep a list of the most WTAF stories emerging

    This is a new contender

    A San Diego truck driver has been FIRED for arranging his fingers in a possibly provocative way NEAR a BLM protest: the fingers were shaped a bit like an "OK" sign, which some think is closet white supremacism

    The driver is Hispanic


    https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/


    We use to have "arrested for walking while black", now we have "sacked for gesturing while non-black"

    Wasn't the whole OK thing originally a 4chan / reddit meme that people will believe any old shit is racist, but then some white supremacists did use it and then... I don't.know i couldn't keep up if it was racist symbol or not.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    I'm not sure what "decolonising the curriculum" really means.

    If it means stopping telling a solely rosy view of the British Empire and its history, then I'd say that's fair enough. Though I don't think that's been the case for decades.

    If it means including more stories perspectives and literature from non-white Britons then I'd also say that's fair enough. Although, again, some progress has been made on that in recent years.

    If it means teaching whatever its proponents want it to mean and their favoured political view of history, and nothing else, then I'd say that's not fair and should be resisted.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,727
    eadric said:

    That's quite a dent in the hedonic image of the Golden State

    https://twitter.com/LauraWalkerKC/status/1273677289931358210
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    I'm not sure what "decolonising the curriculum" really means.

    If it means stopping telling a solely rosy view of the British Empire and its history, then I'd say that's fair enough. Though I don't think that's been the case for decades.

    If it means including more stories perspectives and literature from non-white Britons then I'd also say that's fair enough. Although, again, some progress has been made on that in recent years.

    If it means teaching whatever its proponents want it to mean and their favoured political view of history, and nothing else, then I'd say that's not fair and should be resisted.
    Given BLM leadership also calling for the overthrown of capitalism, I think you can get a feel for which option it is.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    It's ok, it's not a black man, it's only the devil portrayed as a black man. Phew.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1273592172735090689?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    I'm not sure what "decolonising the curriculum" really means.

    If it means stopping telling a solely rosy view of the British Empire and its history, then I'd say that's fair enough. Though I don't think that's been the case for decades.

    If it means including more stories perspectives and literature from non-white Britons then I'd also say that's fair enough. Although, again, some progress has been made on that in recent years.

    If it means teaching whatever its proponents want it to mean and their favoured political view of history, and nothing else, then I'd say that's not fair and should be resisted.
    A far cry from my college days where we read the racist diatribe "The Fat Black Woman's Poems"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    I'm not sure what "decolonising the curriculum" really means.

    If it means stopping telling a solely rosy view of the British Empire and its history, then I'd say that's fair enough. Though I don't think that's been the case for decades.

    If it means including more stories perspectives and literature from non-white Britons then I'd also say that's fair enough. Although, again, some progress has been made on that in recent years.

    If it means teaching whatever its proponents want it to mean and their favoured political view of history, and nothing else, then I'd say that's not fair and should be resisted.
    Given BLM leadership also calling for the overthrown of capitalism, I think you can get a feel for which option it is.
    Why do you think what the BLM leadership are calling for must be adopted wholesale? That doesn't work for any walk of life.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2020

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    I'm not sure what "decolonising the curriculum" really means.

    If it means stopping telling a solely rosy view of the British Empire and its history, then I'd say that's fair enough. Though I don't think that's been the case for decades.

    If it means including more stories perspectives and literature from non-white Britons then I'd also say that's fair enough. Although, again, some progress has been made on that in recent years.

    If it means teaching whatever its proponents want it to mean and their favoured political view of history, and nothing else, then I'd say that's not fair and should be resisted.
    Given BLM leadership also calling for the overthrown of capitalism, I think you can get a feel for which option it is.
    Why do you think what the BLM leadership are calling for must be adopted wholesale? That doesn't work for any walk of life.
    I don't. I am just making it clear their political agenda is wider than reform the police to stop them killing citizens. Just like extinction rebellion won't accept electric cars and solar panels as a good result for the campaign as long as the capitalists are still in charge.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    I'm not sure what "decolonising the curriculum" really means.

    If it means stopping telling a solely rosy view of the British Empire and its history, then I'd say that's fair enough. Though I don't think that's been the case for decades.

    If it means including more stories perspectives and literature from non-white Britons then I'd also say that's fair enough. Although, again, some progress has been made on that in recent years.

    If it means teaching whatever its proponents want it to mean and their favoured political view of history, and nothing else, then I'd say that's not fair and should be resisted.
    Given BLM leadership also calling for the overthrown of capitalism, I think you can get a feel for which option it is.
    Why do you think what the BLM leadership are calling for must be adopted wholesale? That doesn't work for any walk of life.
    I don't. I am just making it clear there political agenda is wider than stop police killing citizens.
    So adopt the good ideas and fight the nonsense. Just as we do with any other organisation ever.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    It's ok, it's not a black man, it's only the devil portrayed as a black man. Phew.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1273592172735090689?s=20

    Do black men tend to have wings?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    RobD said:

    It's ok, it's not a black man, it's only the devil portrayed as a black man. Phew.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1273592172735090689?s=20

    Do black men tend to have wings?
    Only if they're the devil.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    Labour has a “mountain to climb” if it is to get back into power, according to a major review of the 2019 general election defeat, which paints a picture of dysfunctionality, toxicity and drift inside the party’s election-fighting machine.

    Negative perceptions of Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, doubts about the manifesto and the party’s ambivalent Brexit stance reinforced each other in a “snowballing” effect to deliver December’s catastrophic result, the 150-page report by the party group Labour Together argues.

    However, it was also the product of two decades of demographic and political change that hit the party’s traditional base, and could endanger more Labour seats in 2024.

    “Labour’s electoral coalition had been fracturing for a long time and was broken in 2019. We were rejected by many of the communities we were founded to represent,” says the report, seen by the Guardian. “We lost all types of voters everywhere compared with 2017, except in London.”

    Using interviews with senior party figures, as well as previously unpublished polling and new analysis, the report identifies significant shortcomings in the election campaign, which followed 18 months of debilitating parliamentary wrangles over Brexit.

    Key findings include:

    • Labour “went into the 2019 election without a clear strategy of which voters we needed to persuade or how”, and failed to settle on a coherent message with the power of 2017’s: “For the many, not the few”.

    • “It was unclear who was in charge” of the election campaign, and relationships were soured by years of infighting which had created a “toxic culture” and “significant strategic and operational dysfunction”.

    • Labour was outgunned by the Tories in the digital war, with messages poorly coordinated and most of them failing to reach beyond the party’s base.

    • Helped by their clear “Get Brexit done” message, the Conservatives succeeded in turning out 2 million previous non-voters, accounting for two thirds of the increase in their vote share.

    • Labour’s seat targeting was “unrealistic” and “not evidence-based”, and many candidates felt they did not receive enough support from the national party.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/18/dysfunctional-toxic-culture-led-to-labour-defeat-major-report-finds
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    eadric said:

    It's ok, it's not a black man, it's only the devil portrayed as a black man. Phew.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1273592172735090689?s=20

    Imagine the strength of your excited erection if it had shown a tall noble Englishman treading on the pallid, freckly neck of another obese Scotsman

    Shame; I'm sorry you missed out.
    Can we get SeanT back? You're a bit pish.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    Wasn't the whole OK thing originally a 4chan / reddit meme that people will believe any old shit is racist, but then some white supremacists did use it and then... I don't.know i couldn't keep up if it was racist symbol or not.

    I preferred the 4chan shenanigans when they were sending Pitbull to Alaska, not electing Presidents and trying to start race wars.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    This is interesting.

    “ Barnier has indicated a willingness to drop the demand that the UK continue to follow EU rules on state aid in perpetuity. He is also prepared to move position on the vital subject of fish. The EU had wanted the status quo to continue but there is now a growing acceptance that this isn’t realistic, even if the coastal member states are still reluctant to accept this. These small shifts show that the Commission now understands there must be genuine negotiation.”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-a-brexit-deal-within-reach/amp?__twitter_impression=true

    If the LPF shift is genuine and not in name only then I can see a deal being done, at least an interim one that lays out a direction of travel. If it's not then we're still heading for no deal, aiui it's about the most red of red lines we have in the negotiation.
    I suspect enough of a fudge and long grass kicking will be achieved to sign something.

    Both sides want it.
    I think not even a fudge is good enough, it needs to be as genuine shift in the position to remove the self correcting mechanism. Again, both sides want a deal, but aiui the UK doesn't want one at that cost because it poisons the well for all other potential trade deals as other countries will begin to insist on similar self correcting clauses.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006
    Monty Python had it right (as always). To preserve public decency the following words are no longer to be used:

    B*M
    B*TTY
    P*X
    KN*CKERS
    W**-W**
    SEMPRINI
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    This is interesting.

    “ Barnier has indicated a willingness to drop the demand that the UK continue to follow EU rules on state aid in perpetuity. He is also prepared to move position on the vital subject of fish. The EU had wanted the status quo to continue but there is now a growing acceptance that this isn’t realistic, even if the coastal member states are still reluctant to accept this. These small shifts show that the Commission now understands there must be genuine negotiation.”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-a-brexit-deal-within-reach/amp?__twitter_impression=true

    If the LPF shift is genuine and not in name only then I can see a deal being done, at least an interim one that lays out a direction of travel. If it's not then we're still heading for no deal, aiui it's about the most red of red lines we have in the negotiation.
    I suspect enough of a fudge and long grass kicking will be achieved to sign something.

    Both sides want it.
    I think not even a fudge is good enough, it needs to be as genuine shift in the position to remove the self correcting mechanism. Again, both sides want a deal, but aiui the UK doesn't want one at that cost because it poisons the well for all other potential trade deals as other countries will begin to insist on similar self correcting clauses.
    The simplistic fudge I see is to have no self-correcting mechanism but for the EU to be able to add some tariffs [to be determined in the future] if the UK diverges.

    The UK gets to control its laws, the EU gets to say they've held firm but in reality there's zero tariffs, zero quotas and no alignment.

    Since the EU has a major trade surplus with the UK the tariffs will never realistically materialise.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911

    It's ok, it's not a black man, it's only the devil portrayed as a black man. Phew.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1273592172735090689?s=20

    Maybe they can put this on the tailfin of Johnson's shiny new Global Britain plane? It seems entirely in tune with his worldview.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    I'm not sure what "decolonising the curriculum" really means.

    If it means stopping telling a solely rosy view of the British Empire and its history, then I'd say that's fair enough. Though I don't think that's been the case for decades.

    If it means including more stories perspectives and literature from non-white Britons then I'd also say that's fair enough. Although, again, some progress has been made on that in recent years.

    If it means teaching whatever its proponents want it to mean and their favoured political view of history, and nothing else, then I'd say that's not fair and should be resisted.
    As with all revolutions, it will mean exactly what they want it to mean, when they seize power. Like "dictatorship of the proletariat".

    Meaningless but potent. The vagueness is deliberate
    I tend to agree.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    edited June 2020
    Thankfully Police Scotland have now dispensed with equivocating crap about 'rival sets of protestors'. Girfuy statue protectors.

    https://twitter.com/policescotland/status/1273644704870158337?s=20
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,346
    For info, today there is not a single Covid positive patient in Winchester, Basingstoke or Andover Hospitals.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    eadric said:

    It's ok, it's not a black man, it's only the devil portrayed as a black man. Phew.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1273592172735090689?s=20

    Imagine the strength of your excited erection if it had shown a tall noble Englishman treading on the pallid, freckly neck of another obese Scotsman

    Shame; I'm sorry you missed out.
    Ideally shouldn't he be ginger too?
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,920
    Further to my earlier comments it is fact that 7 out of the 11 Lib Dem MPs are women. Ed Davey will be the next LD leader but after that it will be a feminist party.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279

    Labour has a “mountain to climb” if it is to get back into power, according to a major review of the 2019 general election defeat, which paints a picture of dysfunctionality, toxicity and drift inside the party’s election-fighting machine.

    Negative perceptions of Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, doubts about the manifesto and the party’s ambivalent Brexit stance reinforced each other in a “snowballing” effect to deliver December’s catastrophic result, the 150-page report by the party group Labour Together argues.

    However, it was also the product of two decades of demographic and political change that hit the party’s traditional base, and could endanger more Labour seats in 2024.

    “Labour’s electoral coalition had been fracturing for a long time and was broken in 2019. We were rejected by many of the communities we were founded to represent,” says the report, seen by the Guardian. “We lost all types of voters everywhere compared with 2017, except in London.”

    Using interviews with senior party figures, as well as previously unpublished polling and new analysis, the report identifies significant shortcomings in the election campaign, which followed 18 months of debilitating parliamentary wrangles over Brexit.

    Key findings include:

    • Labour “went into the 2019 election without a clear strategy of which voters we needed to persuade or how”, and failed to settle on a coherent message with the power of 2017’s: “For the many, not the few”.

    • “It was unclear who was in charge” of the election campaign, and relationships were soured by years of infighting which had created a “toxic culture” and “significant strategic and operational dysfunction”.

    • Labour was outgunned by the Tories in the digital war, with messages poorly coordinated and most of them failing to reach beyond the party’s base.

    • Helped by their clear “Get Brexit done” message, the Conservatives succeeded in turning out 2 million previous non-voters, accounting for two thirds of the increase in their vote share.

    • Labour’s seat targeting was “unrealistic” and “not evidence-based”, and many candidates felt they did not receive enough support from the national party.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/18/dysfunctional-toxic-culture-led-to-labour-defeat-major-report-finds

    "Labour’s electoral coalition had been fracturing for a long time and was broken in 2019. We were rejected by many of the communities we were founded to represent."

    Other than Scotland, where in particular does this mean? Could it mean the former mining towns in the NE for example, but The Guardian article at first reading seems a thin summary of a 150 page report.

    Is the fracturing electoral coalition a result of Labour's attempts to base its appeal on identity politics?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    Another link to Miliband's report.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1273686048170745856/photo/1

    Still to have a look.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,720


    • Helped by their clear “Get Brexit done” message, the Conservatives succeeded in turning out 2 million previous non-voters, accounting for two thirds of the increase in their vote share.

    I think that's the most interesting thing from the report.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,438

    It's ok, it's not a black man, it's only the devil portrayed as a black man. Phew.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1273592172735090689?s=20

    Which series of Game of Thrones was this based on?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    eadric said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Last night we were being reassured the statue-toppling would end with Rhodes. How quaint

    "Campaign Doesn't End With Rhodes"

    "In a statement, Rhodes Must Fall in Oxford called for a “radical transformation of the academy” now that steps were being taken to remove the Rhodes statue. Their demands include doubling the representation of black staff and black British students, taking on more African Rhodes scholars, and providing better welfare and inclusion for BAME students. And, “most crucially”, to “decolonise” the curriculum.

    "The campaign group said its demand for the removal of imperial and colonial iconography did not end with Rhodes, and they have also called for the removal of the statue of Codrington, a plantation and slave owner who died in 1710."

    The researcher, who didn’t wish to be named, said the university must now re-evaluate its relationship with certain companies and individuals, and stop complying with the government’s Prevent programme and hostile environment policy."


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/18/campaign-doesnt-end-with-rhodes-statue-says-oxford-group


    You give in to the mob, and the mob comes for more. It really is very simple.

    We are witnessing the death by auto-asphyxiation of Anglo-American universities

    What is the problem with more black staff and students and scholars? It is only removing the statue I have a problem with
    You did read the whole article, HYUFD?

    Universities must stop complying with Prevent: that's the policy to combat jihadism on campus.

    They want to double BAME students overnight, so that means others must be excluded. Who? Whitey maybe?

    They want to "decolonise the curriculum" = we will all have to read Toni Morrison novels until the end of time.

    The agenda isn't even disguised any more. It's out there.
    The Eng Lit curriculum had been pretty well decolonised by the end of the 1990s. Toni Morrison has long been one of its most canonical authors. Othello and Mansfield Park are still taught, of course, but the approach is rather different to what it once was ...
    I'm not sure what "decolonising the curriculum" really means.

    If it means stopping telling a solely rosy view of the British Empire and its history, then I'd say that's fair enough. Though I don't think that's been the case for decades.

    If it means including more stories perspectives and literature from non-white Britons then I'd also say that's fair enough. Although, again, some progress has been made on that in recent years.

    If it means teaching whatever its proponents want it to mean and their favoured political view of history, and nothing else, then I'd say that's not fair and should be resisted.
    Given BLM leadership also calling for the overthrown of capitalism, I think you can get a feel for which option it is.
    Why do you think what the BLM leadership are calling for must be adopted wholesale? That doesn't work for any walk of life.
    It mustn't and it shouldn't but there are plenty of people donating freely to it believing they are just funding efforts to achieve greater racial equality. They've raised almost a million quid in the UK so far.

    It's actually more likely to be used to fund the political activities of the far left for years. That's why I said the other day that donations would be better targeting at local charities, community groups and mentoring.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    This is interesting.

    “ Barnier has indicated a willingness to drop the demand that the UK continue to follow EU rules on state aid in perpetuity. He is also prepared to move position on the vital subject of fish. The EU had wanted the status quo to continue but there is now a growing acceptance that this isn’t realistic, even if the coastal member states are still reluctant to accept this. These small shifts show that the Commission now understands there must be genuine negotiation.”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-a-brexit-deal-within-reach/amp?__twitter_impression=true

    If the LPF shift is genuine and not in name only then I can see a deal being done, at least an interim one that lays out a direction of travel. If it's not then we're still heading for no deal, aiui it's about the most red of red lines we have in the negotiation.
    I suspect enough of a fudge and long grass kicking will be achieved to sign something.

    Both sides want it.
    I think not even a fudge is good enough, it needs to be as genuine shift in the position to remove the self correcting mechanism. Again, both sides want a deal, but aiui the UK doesn't want one at that cost because it poisons the well for all other potential trade deals as other countries will begin to insist on similar self correcting clauses.
    The simplistic fudge I see is to have no self-correcting mechanism but for the EU to be able to add some tariffs [to be determined in the future] if the UK diverges.

    The UK gets to control its laws, the EU gets to say they've held firm but in reality there's zero tariffs, zero quotas and no alignment.

    Since the EU has a major trade surplus with the UK the tariffs will never realistically materialise.
    I think that's basically right.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742

    It's ok, it's not a black man, it's only the devil portrayed as a black man. Phew.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1273592172735090689?s=20

    Which series of Game of Thrones was this based on?
    The one where White Walkers turned out to be very fine people.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909
    eadric said:

    At this rate any white western person with a functioning brain cell, and a sense of self respect, is going to be fleeing to Asia - Japan, Singapore, Thailand, South Korea: like Russian aristos fleeing pastel but Bolshevik St Petersburg, for the sanity of Paris and London

    But you're still here...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    This is interesting.

    “ Barnier has indicated a willingness to drop the demand that the UK continue to follow EU rules on state aid in perpetuity. He is also prepared to move position on the vital subject of fish. The EU had wanted the status quo to continue but there is now a growing acceptance that this isn’t realistic, even if the coastal member states are still reluctant to accept this. These small shifts show that the Commission now understands there must be genuine negotiation.”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-a-brexit-deal-within-reach/amp?__twitter_impression=true

    If the LPF shift is genuine and not in name only then I can see a deal being done, at least an interim one that lays out a direction of travel. If it's not then we're still heading for no deal, aiui it's about the most red of red lines we have in the negotiation.
    I suspect enough of a fudge and long grass kicking will be achieved to sign something.

    Both sides want it.
    I think not even a fudge is good enough, it needs to be as genuine shift in the position to remove the self correcting mechanism. Again, both sides want a deal, but aiui the UK doesn't want one at that cost because it poisons the well for all other potential trade deals as other countries will begin to insist on similar self correcting clauses.
    The simplistic fudge I see is to have no self-correcting mechanism but for the EU to be able to add some tariffs [to be determined in the future] if the UK diverges.

    The UK gets to control its laws, the EU gets to say they've held firm but in reality there's zero tariffs, zero quotas and no alignment.

    Since the EU has a major trade surplus with the UK the tariffs will never realistically materialise.
    That sounds about right. I think it's acceptable to everyone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    alterego said:

    eadric said:

    It's ok, it's not a black man, it's only the devil portrayed as a black man. Phew.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/1273592172735090689?s=20

    Imagine the strength of your excited erection if it had shown a tall noble Englishman treading on the pallid, freckly neck of another obese Scotsman

    Shame; I'm sorry you missed out.
    Ideally shouldn't he be ginger too?
    I thought it was big uniformed Orangemen that got him off?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    A link to the full Labour 2019 Report from Paul Waugh.

    https://www.scribd.com/document/466134414/Final-Labour-Together-Report
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    eadric said:

    The devil and his demons have been commonly portrayed as dark since, what, the 11th century? Earlier?

    If these images are unacceptable that is an enormous amount of majestic art which will have to be cancelled.

    Including Michelangelo

    https://thatarthistorygirl.com/2017/09/12/michelangelos-hell/

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21764636
This discussion has been closed.