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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    Shame that it's Dominic Raab's.
    I agree.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368
    rkrkrk said:



    If our criteria for top jobs is 'never having made a mistake/overseen a disaster', then we will end up with inexperienced leaders.

    I personally would distinguish between incompetence (people can learn from experience) and dishonesty (should be a bar).

    Not just inexperienced, but unimaginative risk avoiders. Innovation and ambition would be lost.

    The US military had to change its promotion policy to top levels from reserving these positions for those with spotless records towards those who had shown willingness to try new things and learn from failures. The former led to a leadership full of mediocrities.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    Yeah, it is crazy. I am staying invested for now, but more defensive. I think the recovery in travel stocks is crazy in particular.
    Recovery in travel stocks is utterly deranged. I say this as someone employed in the travel industry.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited June 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Why is a classy guy like Rashford dignifying an ugly right wing sh*t like Hopkins?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    edited June 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    This isn't about cutting overseas aid you uncompassionate oaf.
    In real terms there will be a cut in DFID spending so actually it is
    No there won't. In real terms it is staying at 0.7% in GDP exactly where it was before.

    The squeeze in the budget this year is because GDP has fallen as we're in recession. Pick up an economics textbook, listen to the PM, pay attention and then you might understand what's being talked about.
    'There will be less money than the year before', the days of DFID being immune from austerity are over
    *Facepalm*

    The budget is 0.7% Of GDP.

    This isn't austerity, this is a recession. Do you understand the difference. What is 0.7% of GDP if GDP goes down?
    Throughout the Cameron years DFID along with the NHS were the only departments immune from cuts and which saw year on year increases in funds.

    Those days are over, DFID will face a cut in funds and have to tighten its belt

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1272838940953915393?s=19
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    This isn't about cutting overseas aid you uncompassionate oaf.
    In real terms there will be a cut in DFID spending so actually it is
    No there won't. In real terms it is staying at 0.7% in GDP exactly where it was before.

    The squeeze in the budget this year is because GDP has fallen as we're in recession. Pick up an economics textbook, listen to the PM, pay attention and then you might understand what's being talked about.
    'There will be less money than the year before', the days of DFID being immune from austerity are over
    Only because, under Tory leadership, we have been so spectacularly successful in reducing the denominator.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:
    It is amaizng how consistent the state polling is with a national swing of 4-5 points
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    edited June 2020
    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why is a classy guy like Rashford dignifying an ugly right wing sh*t like Hopkins?

    Edit - Ignore - fake twitter account.

    First mistake from him, silence would have been better even if she deserves it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    Sean_F said:

    On topic, yes, there does seem to be a level at which you can never fail, however bad you are at your job.

    Sonia Sharp - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/29/rotherham-child-abuse-victorian-education-official-sorry - is a perfect example.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why is a classy guy like Rashford dignifying an ugly right wing sh*t like Hopkins?
    First mistake from him, silence would have been better even if she deserves it.
    @MarcusRashforrd

    Note the two 'r's
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    This isn't about cutting overseas aid you uncompassionate oaf.
    In real terms there will be a cut in DFID spending so actually it is
    No there won't. In real terms it is staying at 0.7% in GDP exactly where it was before.

    The squeeze in the budget this year is because GDP has fallen as we're in recession. Pick up an economics textbook, listen to the PM, pay attention and then you might understand what's being talked about.
    'There will be less money than the year before', the days of DFID being immune from austerity are over
    *Facepalm*

    The budget is 0.7% Of GDP.

    This isn't austerity, this is a recession. Do you understand the difference. What is 0.7% of GDP if GDP goes down?
    Throughout the Cameron years DFID along with the NHS were the only departments immune from cuts and which saw year on year increases in funds.

    Those days are over, DFID will face a cut in funds and have to tighten its belt

    https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1272838940953915393?s=19
    image

    This. Is. Not. Austerity.

    In Cameron's years GDP was going up not down. This year GDP is going down. The 0.7% isn't changing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    edited June 2020
    Indeed, @Cyclefree, indeed. The spectacular mediocrity of so much of our Establishment. The real one, I mean, not the "liberal elite" bogeyman that Cummings and Farage & Co have invented to whip up the plebs and get them thinking and voting the "right" way.

    This really struck home to me after the Crash of 08. This event was foreseen by precisely none of the City talking heads who regularly appeared on TV in the years leading up to it, mouthing their sterile groupthink about this, that & the other.

    Then it came - the Crash - and when people tuned in to catch the "informed" punditry as to why and how it had happened, and what should be done about it, guess who they saw?

    Yep, the very same cast of characters. There they were and there they have duly remained, smoothly pivoting from the drivel they used to spout to the next iteration of it, updated for new buzz terms and nostrums but equally shallow and self-serving.

    Bring on the revolution!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    @Philip_Thompson - not a fan of the Picard facepalm?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    How wrong you are, on so many levels.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    edited June 2020
    The money to pay for those vouchers is going to have to come from somewhere.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    murali_s said:

    Good statement by Johnson on merging DFID with the FCO, it makes sense that the UK overseas speaks with one voice.

    No, terrible move.

    It will please the rabid right-wingers / extreme right-wingers but the Tories showing us what they really are - the re-toxification of the Tory party is well underway and has been for quite a while now...
    Every poll shows a majority of voters want overseas aid spending cut and more money spent at home
    This isn't about cutting overseas aid you uncompassionate oaf.
    In real terms there will be a cut in DFID spending so actually it is
    No there won't. In real terms it is staying at 0.7% in GDP exactly where it was before.

    The squeeze in the budget this year is because GDP has fallen as we're in recession. Pick up an economics textbook, listen to the PM, pay attention and then you might understand what's being talked about.
    'There will be less money than the year before', the days of DFID being immune from austerity are over
    *Facepalm*

    The budget is 0.7% Of GDP.

    This isn't austerity, this is a recession. Do you understand the difference. What is 0.7% of GDP if GDP goes down?
    The key point is that the 0.7% will be diverted onto pet projects on the spurious grounds that it buys influence. As long as the money was ringfenced to the DfID, there was some chance of it fulfilling a real development purpose.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725
    edited June 2020
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    OT. But stocks surging on US retail data. Up 17.7% in May from April.
    But. Down 10.5% on previous year.
    How long can this bubble last?

    Yeah, it is crazy. I am staying invested for now, but more defensive. I think the recovery in travel stocks is crazy in particular.
    Attentive PB’ers might remember that I bought some Carnival shares during the depths of the market. A week or two later I was thinking I had been rash, but I have managed to sell them now for a decent profit.

    The stock market is being propped up by lack of any decent alternative for people with spare capital to put their money, with interest rates at rock bottom. It’s a dangerous state of affairs that won’t take much to turn.
    It is unusual to be able to see an investment so well:

    https://onthewight.com/ships-parking-off-isle-of-wight-bembridge-to-ventnor-bring-exhaust-fumes-and-deep-vibrations-say-residents/
    My own comment under that thread isn’t very well disguised.

    Personally I quite like seeing some of the world’s most impressive cruise ships moored offshore from my dining room window, or sailing up and down for want of anything better to do.

    But the recent rebound in share prices suggests the market is a lot more optimistic about returning to the days when they would all sail past in a line each Sunday evening, than I am.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2020
    RobD said:

    @Philip_Thompson - not a fan of the Picard facepalm?

    I Googled for that but found the other one and thought that was more fitting for this site.

    I intended to use Picard next time HYUFD says something silly. Probably won't be long.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2020


    Could we be down to near zero by August?

    On this morning's ONS release (date of death rather than date of reporting), we seem to be on track for ~60ish by 1/july, ~20ish by 1/aug, with today's figure at 110.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    lol a networking event/jolly for my industry has been replaced by... a Zoom call.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Pulpstar said:

    lol a networking event/jolly for my industry has been replaced by... a Zoom call.

    Have fun. :smiley:
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited June 2020
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    How wrong you are, on so many levels.
    RobD - I actually like you even though I may press a few buttons. I think you'll find it is you that is wrong on so many levels.

    Remember when we chatted about Johnson's suitability to be PM 7-8 months. Fair to say that I have been clearly vindicated.

    You need to get your PB Tory blinkers off - hard I know for the cheerleader but it is worth doing my friend!
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Loving this Global Britain. The merging is not before time. Feels very much like a country that is looking forwards rather than backwards now.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    Pulpstar said:

    The money to pay for those vouchers is going to have to come from somewhere.

    I thought we were all agreed on the magic money tree now?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,584
    Alistair said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why is a classy guy like Rashford dignifying an ugly right wing sh*t like Hopkins?
    First mistake from him, silence would have been better even if she deserves it.
    @MarcusRashforrd

    Note the two 'r's
    I like to think he actually operates both accounts and uses this one for the things the first one wants to, but should not, say
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Brom said:

    Loving this Global Britain. The merging is not before time. Feels very much like a country that is looking forwards rather than backwards now.

    ...says a pea-brained right-wing loon. You my friend know nothing of international development. It's just your pathetic prejudice talking here...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    edited June 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    It was a mistake for Cameron to ringfence DFID spending and increase it year on year when most other departments were having to cut spending.

    No more
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    How wrong you are, on so many levels.
    RobD - I actually like you even though I may press a few buttons. I think you'll find it is you that is wrong on so many levels.

    Remember when we chatted about Johnson's suitability to be PM 7-8 months. Fair to say that I have been clearly vindicated.

    You need to get your PB Tory blinkers off - hard I know for the cheerleader but it is worth doing my friend!
    I am pointing out you are wrong about xenophobic (check the polls from yesterday on this topic), and on being uncaring (compare aid spent as a proportion of GDP, the UK is sixth).
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    murali_s said:

    Brom said:

    Loving this Global Britain. The merging is not before time. Feels very much like a country that is looking forwards rather than backwards now.

    ...says a pea-brained right-wing loon. You my friend know nothing of international development. It's just your pathetic prejudice talking here...
    Sorry, no idea who you are. You sound very bitter that Britain is moving on without you. Enjoy the 14th Century fella.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    murali_s said:

    Brom said:

    Loving this Global Britain. The merging is not before time. Feels very much like a country that is looking forwards rather than backwards now.

    ...says a pea-brained right-wing loon. You my friend know nothing of international development. It's just your pathetic prejudice talking here...
    A kinder genlter politics eh
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It was a mistake for Cameron to ringfenced DFID spending and increase it year on year when most other departments were having to cut spending.

    No more
    image

    DFID is still ringfenced at 0.7% of GDP.

    There we go @RobD knew it wouldn't take long. He really doesn't understand this percentage of GDP idea does he?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769

    Pulpstar said:

    The money to pay for those vouchers is going to have to come from somewhere.

    I thought we were all agreed on the magic money tree now?
    You can debase the currency if you like, that has its own costs.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    Evidence please

  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited June 2020
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    How wrong you are, on so many levels.
    RobD - I actually like you even though I may press a few buttons. I think you'll find it is you that is wrong on so many levels.

    Remember when we chatted about Johnson's suitability to be PM 7-8 months. Fair to say that I have been clearly vindicated.

    You need to get your PB Tory blinkers off - hard I know for the cheerleader but it is worth doing my friend!
    I am pointing out you are wrong about xenophobic (check the polls from yesterday on this topic), and on being uncaring (compare aid spent as a proportion of GDP, the UK is sixth).
    Not really. The country is becoming more xenophobic in my opinion.

    Was called the 'P' word yesterday in a Waitrose car-park of all places. All because I parked too close (allegedly) to an oaf's Range Rover. This Government is giving racists carte blanche to do their worst. It's beginning to look like the 80s all over again!

    When the man at the helm is a bit of racist, what do you expect?
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    edited June 2020
    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    Im in favour of the UK contributing a fair share of GDP as aid to other countries as both a moral and pragmatic thing to do. But I really cant get worked up by whether its done through the FO or not - all departments are essentially run by No 10 and Cummings anyway. Nor can I understand the totemic adherence to an arbitrary percentage. Why 0.7 and not 0.8 or 0.6?

    Surely longer term the answer isnt about what the UK itself does as we are only about 1% of the people of the planet, but what we can do to enhance and reinvigorate multi national bodies that have been failing the last couple of decades. Spending our whole aid budget encouraging richer countries elsewhere to get towards 0.5% might easily raise more money than we can provide ourselves.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    How wrong you are, on so many levels.
    RobD - I actually like you even though I may press a few buttons. I think you'll find it is you that is wrong on so many levels.

    Remember when we chatted about Johnson's suitability to be PM 7-8 months. Fair to say that I have been clearly vindicated.

    You need to get your PB Tory blinkers off - hard I know for the cheerleader but it is worth doing my friend!
    I am pointing out you are wrong about xenophobic (check the polls from yesterday on this topic), and on being uncaring (compare aid spent as a proportion of GDP, the UK is sixth).
    Not really. The country is becoming more xenophobic in my opinion.

    Was called the 'P' word yesterday in a Waitrose car-park of all places. All because I parked too close (allegedly) to an oaf's Range Rover. This Government is giving racists carte blanche to their worst. It's beginning to look like the 80s all over again!

    When the man at the helm is a bit of racist, what do you expect?
    I'm sorry that you were racially abused, that's just not on. Surveys do suggest the UK is a more tolerant place, especially compared with the 80s. Just check out the tabloid headlines from that era!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The money to pay for those vouchers is going to have to come from somewhere.

    I thought we were all agreed on the magic money tree now?
    You can debase the currency if you like, that has its own costs.
    I cant, populist governments can and are doing so across the world.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    Im in favour of the UK contributing a fair share of GDP as aid to other countries as both a moral and pragmatic thing to do. But I really cant get worked up by whether its done through the FO or not - all departments are essentially run by No 10 and Cummings anyway. Nor can I understand the totemic adherence to an arbitrary percentage. Why 0.7 and not 0.8 or 0.6?

    Surely longer term the answer isnt about what the UK itself does as we are only about 1% of the people of the planet, but what we can do to enhance and reinvigorate multi national bodies that have been failing the last couple of decades. Spending our whole aid budget encouraging richer countries elsewhere to get towards 0.5% might easily raise more money than we can provide ourselves.

    0.7% is the OECD target, but it does seem to have been plucked from thin air.

    https://www.oecd.org/dac/stats/ODA-history-of-the-0-7-target.pdf
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Johnson's authority is now in freefall - and has been so for weeks. Few any longer take him seriously.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Scott_xP said:
    If they keep the UK Aid mark, will anyone actually notice the difference?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Blimey if you read some of these posts you would think the government had no right to impement a manifesto it had an 80 seat majority for.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    Hmmm.... I'm not sure.

    For me, the fact that something goes seriously wrong when you are in charge is not per se a reason to resign. It is a good reason if it was your policies or decisions that caused the mistake but the idea that you carry the can regardless of personal fault I am less convinced of.
    What is more significant is how you respond to the error. Cover up (yes PO, I mean you) is clearly unacceptable as is thumping whistleblowers, etc. If, however, the fault is acknowledged, corrected and made good an executive should get credit for that, not the sack.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,974
    The other thing it reinforces to me is that the one thing, the one thing that was important enough to Johnson not to give way on, was holding on to Cummings over Escape to Durham and the Barnard Castle Eye Test.

    Brexit on October 31st, Irish Sea border, shaking hands, lockdown, NHS Surcharge, Free School Meals for the summer, all positions Johnson has taken with declarations of certainty, all abandoned. But he doesn't dare sack Cummings for breaking the rules.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675
    justin124 said:

    Johnson's authority is now in freefall - and has been so for weeks. Few any longer take him seriously.

    https://twitter.com/Emmabarnett/status/1272873845389754368
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    How wrong you are, on so many levels.
    RobD - I actually like you even though I may press a few buttons. I think you'll find it is you that is wrong on so many levels.

    Remember when we chatted about Johnson's suitability to be PM 7-8 months. Fair to say that I have been clearly vindicated.

    You need to get your PB Tory blinkers off - hard I know for the cheerleader but it is worth doing my friend!
    I am pointing out you are wrong about xenophobic (check the polls from yesterday on this topic), and on being uncaring (compare aid spent as a proportion of GDP, the UK is sixth).
    Not really. The country is becoming more xenophobic in my opinion.

    Was called the 'P' word yesterday in a Waitrose car-park of all places. All because I parked too close (allegedly) to an oaf's Range Rover. This Government is giving racists carte blanche to do their worst. It's beginning to look like the 80s all over again!

    When the man at the helm is a bit of racist, what do you expect?
    There's no excuse for racism or the use of the P-word. I'm sorry that happened.

    The evidence though is the country is becoming much less racist and less xenophobic as the survey discussed earlier this week that shows Britons overwhelmingly don't consider being white relevant to being British and a massive swing in the space of a decade.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It was a mistake for Cameron to ringfenced DFID spending and increase it year on year when most other departments were having to cut spending.

    No more
    image

    DFID is still ringfenced at 0.7% of GDP.

    There we go @RobD knew it wouldn't take long. He really doesn't understand this percentage of GDP idea does he?
    To be fair, HYUFD referred to increasing it year on year. We’re solving that by slashing GDP.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188
    edited June 2020

    Im in favour of the UK contributing a fair share of GDP as aid to other countries as both a moral and pragmatic thing to do. But I really cant get worked up by whether its done through the FO or not - all departments are essentially run by No 10 and Cummings anyway. Nor can I understand the totemic adherence to an arbitrary percentage. Why 0.7 and not 0.8 or 0.6?

    Surely longer term the answer isnt about what the UK itself does as we are only about 1% of the people of the planet, but what we can do to enhance and reinvigorate multi national bodies that have been failing the last couple of decades. Spending our whole aid budget encouraging richer countries elsewhere to get towards 0.5% might easily raise more money than we can provide ourselves.

    It will matter because the FO will spend the money for different purposes from the DfID. The UK has lost a lot of influence in the world thanks to Brexit and will, I think, aim to buy some of it back. Expect a chunk of this money to end up in Europe. The EU has 27 member states all with a veto vote...
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    How wrong you are, on so many levels.
    RobD - I actually like you even though I may press a few buttons. I think you'll find it is you that is wrong on so many levels.

    Remember when we chatted about Johnson's suitability to be PM 7-8 months. Fair to say that I have been clearly vindicated.

    You need to get your PB Tory blinkers off - hard I know for the cheerleader but it is worth doing my friend!
    I am pointing out you are wrong about xenophobic (check the polls from yesterday on this topic), and on being uncaring (compare aid spent as a proportion of GDP, the UK is sixth).
    Not really. The country is becoming more xenophobic in my opinion.

    Was called the 'P' word yesterday in a Waitrose car-park of all places. All because I parked too close (allegedly) to an oaf's Range Rover. This Government is giving racists carte blanche to their worst. It's beginning to look like the 80s all over again!

    When the man at the helm is a bit of racist, what do you expect?
    I'm sorry that you were racially abused, that's just not on. Surveys do suggest the UK is a more tolerant place, especially compared with the 80s. Just check out the tabloid headlines from that era!
    I lived through the 80s where abuse was common-place so yes it is far better now. But this *Tory* Government is bucking that good trend. That's the worry! The mood music is not good...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,974
    Selebian said:

    Alistair said:

    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why is a classy guy like Rashford dignifying an ugly right wing sh*t like Hopkins?
    First mistake from him, silence would have been better even if she deserves it.
    @MarcusRashforrd

    Note the two 'r's
    I like to think he actually operates both accounts and uses this one for the things the first one wants to, but should not, say
    If that isn't social media advice it should be. Added benefit is that if the parody account you operate is good enough then it crowds out an independent attempt.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    Hmmm.... I'm not sure.

    For me, the fact that something goes seriously wrong when you are in charge is not per se a reason to resign. It is a good reason if it was your policies or decisions that caused the mistake but the idea that you carry the can regardless of personal fault I am less convinced of.
    What is more significant is how you respond to the error. Cover up (yes PO, I mean you) is clearly unacceptable as is thumping whistleblowers, etc. If, however, the fault is acknowledged, corrected and made good an executive should get credit for that, not the sack.

    100% agreed.

    Sacking those who get things wrong means you encourage cover ups and not transparency, honesty and learning from mistakes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,995
    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    Scott_xP said:
    Surely overseas aid spending is partly a latter day extension of Empire?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    RobD said:

    Im in favour of the UK contributing a fair share of GDP as aid to other countries as both a moral and pragmatic thing to do. But I really cant get worked up by whether its done through the FO or not - all departments are essentially run by No 10 and Cummings anyway. Nor can I understand the totemic adherence to an arbitrary percentage. Why 0.7 and not 0.8 or 0.6?

    Surely longer term the answer isnt about what the UK itself does as we are only about 1% of the people of the planet, but what we can do to enhance and reinvigorate multi national bodies that have been failing the last couple of decades. Spending our whole aid budget encouraging richer countries elsewhere to get towards 0.5% might easily raise more money than we can provide ourselves.

    0.7% is the OECD target, but it does seem to have been plucked from thin air.

    https://www.oecd.org/dac/stats/ODA-history-of-the-0-7-target.pdf
    Northern Europe does seem to be on its own in this.

    USA 0.15%, Japan 0.21%, Canada 0.26%, Australia 0.26%, Spain 0.12%, Italy 0.21%, NZ 0.2%, South Korea 0.09%

    Not sure why thats fair?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,253
    Cracking thread header and agree with every word of it.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    How wrong you are, on so many levels.
    RobD - I actually like you even though I may press a few buttons. I think you'll find it is you that is wrong on so many levels.

    Remember when we chatted about Johnson's suitability to be PM 7-8 months. Fair to say that I have been clearly vindicated.

    You need to get your PB Tory blinkers off - hard I know for the cheerleader but it is worth doing my friend!
    I am pointing out you are wrong about xenophobic (check the polls from yesterday on this topic), and on being uncaring (compare aid spent as a proportion of GDP, the UK is sixth).
    Not really. The country is becoming more xenophobic in my opinion.

    Was called the 'P' word yesterday in a Waitrose car-park of all places. All because I parked too close (allegedly) to an oaf's Range Rover. This Government is giving racists carte blanche to do their worst. It's beginning to look like the 80s all over again!

    When the man at the helm is a bit of racist, what do you expect?
    Yes because the PM is really responsible for everyone in a Waitrose car park. :smiley:
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.
    LOL. The right-wing PB Tories never learn.

    Haven't come on here for a while and this place is till littered by right-wing nutters!
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Pulpstar said:

    The money to pay for those vouchers is going to have to come from somewhere.

    Agreed , maybe they will start with National Insurance on pensions.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,043
    edited June 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    justin124 said:

    Johnson's authority is now in freefall - and has been so for weeks. Few any longer take him seriously.

    https://twitter.com/Emmabarnett/status/1272873845389754368
    Hopeless - but familiar.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,678
    @Philip_Thompson

    Philip, it is only polite of me to say I made reference to you at the end of the last thread (way after it should have been dead). I believe I represented you correctly, but thought I should tell you in case you hadn't seen it and disagreed.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,325
    edited June 2020

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.

    No-one on the planet thinks that 1.3 million children go hungry in this stupendously wealthy country, and no-one on the planet thinks that if they did it would be solved with a trivial quantity of public money.

    If SKS is seriously telling us that a after 100 years plus of Labour party influence in this country, including governing from 1997-2010, that kids are hungry in massive numbers he is confessing a gigantic fail.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    I don;t see how this departmental merger changes much or plays to the 'base'

    The ringfenced cash is still the same amount in percentage terms.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    .
    Yorkcity said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The money to pay for those vouchers is going to have to come from somewhere.

    Agreed , maybe they will start with National Insurance on pensions.
    I was thinking of a massive tax rise on high-earning athletes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It was a mistake for Cameron to ringfenced DFID spending and increase it year on year when most other departments were having to cut spending.

    No more
    image

    DFID is still ringfenced at 0.7% of GDP.

    There we go @RobD knew it wouldn't take long. He really doesn't understand this percentage of GDP idea does he?
    So still no longer increasing year on year as it was for the last decade, thanks for the confirmation
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.
    I called Boris and HMG out this morning over their response to Marcus's intelligent and well argued letter and for Boris to concede this to Marcus is a huge plus to him and it is stupid for Starmer to try to claim a victory thereby diluting Marcus's appeal

    It should not have needed Boris to concede but full marks that he has

    However, not sure 'frothing' PB tories adds to the debate
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,253

    DavidL said:

    Hmmm.... I'm not sure.

    For me, the fact that something goes seriously wrong when you are in charge is not per se a reason to resign. It is a good reason if it was your policies or decisions that caused the mistake but the idea that you carry the can regardless of personal fault I am less convinced of.
    What is more significant is how you respond to the error. Cover up (yes PO, I mean you) is clearly unacceptable as is thumping whistleblowers, etc. If, however, the fault is acknowledged, corrected and made good an executive should get credit for that, not the sack.

    100% agreed.

    Sacking those who get things wrong means you encourage cover ups and not transparency, honesty and learning from mistakes.
    But some mistakes are so serious - and in the case of the Post Office mentioned above directly involve a cover up - that those responsible really should not be allowed to continue in post and certainly should not be rewarded with more lucrative positions after they have either stepped down or been pushed.

    By all means accept there can be honest mistakes but in most of the examples used by Cyclefree it went way beyond that.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,497
    FF43 said:

    Im in favour of the UK contributing a fair share of GDP as aid to other countries as both a moral and pragmatic thing to do. But I really cant get worked up by whether its done through the FO or not - all departments are essentially run by No 10 and Cummings anyway. Nor can I understand the totemic adherence to an arbitrary percentage. Why 0.7 and not 0.8 or 0.6?

    Surely longer term the answer isnt about what the UK itself does as we are only about 1% of the people of the planet, but what we can do to enhance and reinvigorate multi national bodies that have been failing the last couple of decades. Spending our whole aid budget encouraging richer countries elsewhere to get towards 0.5% might easily raise more money than we can provide ourselves.

    It will matter because the FO will spend the money for different purposes from the DfID. The UK has lost a lot of influence in the world thanks to Brexit and will, I think, aim to buy some of it back. Expect a chunk of this money to end up in Europe. The EU has 27 member states all with a veto vote...
    Isnt the aid budget limited to developing countries as defined by the OECD?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    I don;t see how this departmental merger changes much or plays to the 'base'

    The ringfenced cash is still the same amount in percentage terms.

    Yeah, the reaction does seem a bit over the top. If aid is still branded with "UK Aid" no one outside of the UK is going to notice any difference.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,652

    NHS England hospital numbers out - 79
    Last seven days - 70
    Last Tuesday - 129

    Big fall....

    image
    image
    image
    image

    Could we be down to near zero by August?
    The Israeli military guy forecast it would fizzle out by August.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It was a mistake for Cameron to ringfenced DFID spending and increase it year on year when most other departments were having to cut spending.

    No more
    image

    DFID is still ringfenced at 0.7% of GDP.

    There we go @RobD knew it wouldn't take long. He really doesn't understand this percentage of GDP idea does he?
    So still no longer increasing year on year as it was for the last decade, thanks for the confirmation
    You still don't understand maths.

    The commitment was never to increase it year on year it was to keep it 0.7% of GDP. George Osborne and David Cameron would have cut it if there was ever a recession too.

    PS just read your exchange with @kjh at the end of the last thread where I was namechecked by both of you. Needless to say, I agree with @kjh not you then too - though for the record I'd be spitting out my coffee, not my tea.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    Brom said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    Global Britain being launched today - "we're a self indulgent xenophobic uncaring nation that has no time for the poor around the World" - that's the clear message being delivered today.

    What a f*cking joke we have become!

    How wrong you are, on so many levels.
    RobD - I actually like you even though I may press a few buttons. I think you'll find it is you that is wrong on so many levels.

    Remember when we chatted about Johnson's suitability to be PM 7-8 months. Fair to say that I have been clearly vindicated.

    You need to get your PB Tory blinkers off - hard I know for the cheerleader but it is worth doing my friend!
    I am pointing out you are wrong about xenophobic (check the polls from yesterday on this topic), and on being uncaring (compare aid spent as a proportion of GDP, the UK is sixth).
    Not really. The country is becoming more xenophobic in my opinion.

    Was called the 'P' word yesterday in a Waitrose car-park of all places. All because I parked too close (allegedly) to an oaf's Range Rover. This Government is giving racists carte blanche to do their worst. It's beginning to look like the 80s all over again!

    When the man at the helm is a bit of racist, what do you expect?
    Yes because the PM is really responsible for everyone in a Waitrose car park. :smiley:
    Who is responsible for everyone in -

    Aldi car parks
    Tesco car parks
    Lidl car parks
    Sainsburys car parks

    ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    geoffw said:

    NHS England hospital numbers out - 79
    Last seven days - 70
    Last Tuesday - 129

    Big fall....

    image
    image
    image
    image

    Could we be down to near zero by August?
    The Israeli military guy forecast it would fizzle out by August.
    What does he say about Iran?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,662
    murali_s said:

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.
    LOL. The right-wing PB Tories never learn.

    Haven't come on here for a while and this place is till littered by right-wing nutters!
    That's the main reason to come here. Where else are you going to meet them?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    GDP heading south means we can find err... "efficiencies" in the defense budget too ?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    DavidL said:

    Hmmm.... I'm not sure.

    For me, the fact that something goes seriously wrong when you are in charge is not per se a reason to resign. It is a good reason if it was your policies or decisions that caused the mistake but the idea that you carry the can regardless of personal fault I am less convinced of.
    What is more significant is how you respond to the error. Cover up (yes PO, I mean you) is clearly unacceptable as is thumping whistleblowers, etc. If, however, the fault is acknowledged, corrected and made good an executive should get credit for that, not the sack.

    100% agreed.

    Sacking those who get things wrong means you encourage cover ups and not transparency, honesty and learning from mistakes.
    But some mistakes are so serious - and in the case of the Post Office mentioned above directly involve a cover up - that those responsible really should not be allowed to continue in post and certainly should not be rewarded with more lucrative positions after they have either stepped down or been pushed.

    By all means accept there can be honest mistakes but in most of the examples used by Cyclefree it went way beyond that.
    Absolutely if the mistake was serious and caused by something that should have been avoided and involved a cover up then those responsible really should not be allowed to continue.

    However if the mistake was acknowledged, responded to and moved on from then that is good and should be rewarded.

    To err is human. How you respond to it is what matters more.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    RobD said:

    I don;t see how this departmental merger changes much or plays to the 'base'

    The ringfenced cash is still the same amount in percentage terms.

    Yeah, the reaction does seem a bit over the top. If aid is still branded with "UK Aid" no one outside of the UK is going to notice any difference.
    Nobody inside the UK is going to notice any difference. If the government slashed the percentage ringfence that would be 'playing to the base'

    we're still going to be sending billions abroad as millions in our country try to cope with bankruptcy, unemployment, poor health and destitution.

    '
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It was a mistake for Cameron to ringfenced DFID spending and increase it year on year when most other departments were having to cut spending.

    No more
    image

    DFID is still ringfenced at 0.7% of GDP.

    There we go @RobD knew it wouldn't take long. He really doesn't understand this percentage of GDP idea does he?
    So still no longer increasing year on year as it was for the last decade, thanks for the confirmation
    You still don't understand maths.

    The commitment was never to increase it year on year it was to keep it 0.7% of GDP. George Osborne and David Cameron would have cut it if there was ever a recession too.

    PS just read your exchange with @kjh at the end of the last thread where I was namechecked by both of you. Needless to say, I agree with @kjh not you then too - though for the record I'd be spitting out my coffee, not my tea.
    For the last decade DFID has had increased funds year on year while other departments have faced cuts, no longer.

    You of course are a liberal not a conservative and represent Orange Books LDs rather than the core vote and membership of the Conservative Party
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,631
    edited June 2020
    murali_s said:

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.
    LOL. The right-wing PB Tories never learn.

    Haven't come on here for a while and this place is till littered by right-wing nutters!
    Brom said:

    https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1272866991683051520?s=20

    Oh dear, huge own goal by Labour claiming credit for the Rashford tweet and now getting bucketloads of abuse on twitter

    Yes, a big error as far as all frothing PB Tories will be concerned.

    LOL. The right-wing PB Tories never learn.

    Haven't come on here for a while and this place is till littered by right-wing nutters!


    And by posters who seem to get pleasure from mocking mental health and other divisive language

    What has happened to the kinder gentler UK the late Joe Cox wanted
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,662
    The lack of wealth in Yorkshire is a legacy of the Harrowing of the North*.

    Should Normandy be giving us money?

    Not asking for that. I think it's a daft idea. Nor do I think the Italians owe us, nor the Romans.

    *For those wondering, it wiped out about thee-quarters of the population. Imagine England if there were about 15m more people, all in the north. Ok, that's a very rough and ready number, and it could well be more, but it does give an indication of the significance of the Harrowing on the population composition of England.
This discussion has been closed.