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  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188

    Mortimer is a nice chap, but he is a young fogey that really doesn't get the pub thing. At all.

    He criticised me several times for contending that they are the backbone of Britain – core to our national heritage – and argued that they could be replaced by dinner parties.

    So, I wouldn't waste your pixels on him on this particular debate.

    He may have more to offer on other discussions.
    Misrepresentation m'lud!

    I didn't say they can be replaced with dinner parties. I said I wouldn't be going to pubs as much, and am looking forward to having more dinner parties.

    Not sure I can deny the young fogey line - but I'd say in a usual time pre-Covid I probably spent nigh on £100/week in pubs - either lunch with the parents and a few rounds, or a working dinner or two whilst away. I'm aware how they work, just think you're being somewhat hyperbolic in suggesting they are the backbone of Britain....
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192

    Far bigger pollinators in the great scheme of things than a bee. Get a hard time from those like you - whilst doing all the hard graft in the darkness....
    I thought Cummings's boss was a far bigger pollinator than ...... oh! You mean the moth!!!

    Sorry

    :D
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Stocky said:

    I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
    A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.

    All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.

    The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559

    They're going to be able to go out, meet friends, and have a drink in the sun in the near future.

    That IS happiness in Britain.
    We've been doing that for weeks in Devon. "Distance dining" - one couple each end of the table. Scattered tables around the lawn for VE-Day tea and cake.

    Lowest Covid-19 in the country. Because we have taken personal responsibility for our lives and acted very sensibly.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Socky said:

    If the BBC decide to be totally independent I would be happy, then they can push any agenda they want to.

    If you get your money via threats of imprisonment, then different standards apply.
    I do not approve of the licence fee. I view it as legalised extortion.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2020
    183 new deaths in England. Last 3 days, 28 / 64 / 24. Bit of backdating in there, but figures don't look that great overall. Looks rather same as last week type plateau.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.

    All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.

    The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
    We'll just have to tax London harder.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    OllyT said:

    Perhaps you would be kind enough to link us to the source of these disturbing things you keep hearing about. It makes a world of difference as to whether you have "just heard" it from closely connected to OFCOM or from Guido Fawkes.
    Nothing on Guido about it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    kjh said:

    Are these Tory moths though?. I think we should know.
    You've already read moths are useful and productive - of course they are! ;-P
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    We'll just have to tax London harder.
    London looks set to be the part of the country that suffers most anyway. Which I'm sure pleases you.
  • Ah I see we're back to believing polls again
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,674
    I see the Brexiteers are sounding like Corbynista complaining about media bias.

    Two cheeks of the same arse.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    Oh I don't know? Boris fanboys seem to vote for each other like they were former Soviet States in a Eurovision Song Contest.
    I wasn't sure if your liking my post was ironic or not! :smile:

    But on the Boris fans then yes. It is very curious. Liking him, not supporting each other.

    I would have thought that it was transparently obvious that Boris is a self-serving, solipsistic, useless twat.

    But it appears that his fans on here are like those aged shoppers in Aldi who think he is a breath of fresh air.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559

    You've already read moths are useful and productive - of course they are! ;-P
    Apolitical. They aren't even awake when the polling stations are open!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    OllyT said:

    Perhaps you would be kind enough to link us to the source of these disturbing things you keep hearing about. It makes a world of difference as to whether you have "just heard" it from closely connected to OFCOM or from Guido Fawkes.
    You can see what she said here:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8360695/Emily-Maitlis-states-fact-Dominic-Cummings-broke-rules.html

    1. that Cummings broke the rules

    2. that Johnson displayed blind loyaLty to him.

    She is obv reading an autocue, and the way she is reading suggests they are not her own words - imposs to tell without context.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Eventually, the bigger story of the Cummings episode is how fucked the BBC are going to be as a result of the way they have played it.

    Remember, Beeb: "dig two graves".....
    Indeed. Also Emerson: 'When you strike the king, you must kill him.'

    'Cos if you don't...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/BBCWorldatOne/status/1265622444439670785

    People previously used excuses such as "but I thought I was an essential worker" and "the rules are too confusing for me"...although the best one being "I thought this beach was in England (when it was in Wales)"....yeah sure you did love...you totally missed the big signs saying "Welcome to Wales" and all of a sudden the road signs being in two languages.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404


    By "relaxation" do you mean "abandonment of restrictions entirely" or do you mean "targeted partial relaxations in some areas while maximising social distancing"?

    I am not aware of any country that has returned to normal, and I am not sure that is in the power of the state to do anyway.

    However I did expect that relaxation would lead to a visible up-tick in infection rates (and that may be a worthwhile trade-off). The graphs that I have seen however appear to be heading downwards still.

    That I find surprising. Do you not?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    London looks set to be the part of the country that suffers most anyway. Which I'm sure pleases you.
    Actually it doesn't, there's no joy in watching any part of the country suffer.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    With 8.4m employed (I use the term loosely) and 2m self-employed people on furlough, what do we think the post-Ascot private party-induced Covid spike will be?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    TOPPING said:

    With 8.4m employed (I use the term loosely) and 2m self-employed people on furlough, what do we think the post-Ascot private party-induced Covid spike will be?

    Gotta get that herd immunity somehow.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    malcolmg said:

    Does it have to be hot food, make the cheapest possible cold or hot item possible and include it in price of the drinks.
    It’s been a couple of decades since I last did a licensing law exam, and things have definitely changed in the meantime, but IIRC “food” used to mean “a substantial meal”, so a plate of chips doesn’t cut it without the burger.

    It’s all bollocks though, they should drop a whole load of licensing laws for the summer and turn parks into beer gardens.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422

    There are exceptions in any industry but I have to believe that anyone who goes into care does so because they care about it. Like teaching, nursing etc

    Regarding absentee owners that can happen in any sector too. So long as they have passionate and good managers that should be fine. It's the managers who matter more most likely than the owners, besides owner/managers.
    This report on the Skye home makes depressing reading:

    https://commonweal.scot/policy-library/predictable-crisis
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    edited May 2020
    Socky said:

    I am not aware of any country that has returned to normal, and I am not sure that is in the power of the state to do anyway.

    However I did expect that relaxation would lead to a visible up-tick in infection rates (and that may be a worthwhile trade-off). The graphs that I have seen however appear to be heading downwards still.

    That I find surprising. Do you not?
    Possibly, apart from some care homes, it maybe that Covid has picked the low-hanging fruit in various populations - the mega-vulnerable that, in nature, are always the first to go. It really depends on how widespread this virus actually is as a percentage across the population. I am not sure that we know the answer to that yet.

    Or it could simply be that it does not spread as easily as we think and "herd immunity" is achieved with a very low percentage.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559

    You seem to be implying Cummings might be a vindictive man with a lot of clout.
    I fucking hope so....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235

    I see the Brexiteers are sounding like Corbynista complaining about media bias.

    Two cheeks of the same arse.

    Both the left and right complain about the BBC. I think that means they're getting it right.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    Possibly, apart from some care homes, it maybe that Covid has picked the low-hanging fruit in various populations - the mega-vulnerable that, in nature, are always the first to go. It really depends on how widespread this virus actually is as a percentage across the population. I am not sure that we know the answer to that yet.
    There have been serology surveys showing it's not even at 10%, unfortunately.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,188

    Indeed. Also Emerson: 'When you strike the king, you must kill him.'

    'Cos if you don't...
    Treason never prospers and, more recently, when you play the Game of Thrones you win or you die.

    The government was already at daggers drawn with the BBC before this (Today boycotts etc). But that may prove to have been the phoney war.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Because people will not pay it. It is bad enough paying (say) Starbucks £3 for a coffee when, for a few pennies more, you can pop in to Tesco and buy a bag of Starbucks's coffee for £3.50

    All that will happen is that all High Street coffee shops will close

    For further info, I refer you to either the Scandinavians whose booze prices are so high (level playing field) that there is a black market in booze, our own tobacco industry where prices are so high there is a black market in fags and finally prohibition in the USA where moonshine sales replaced the legitimate market.

    All level playing fields that the public work around.
    The government has deliberately stopped businesses trading. So yes it bloody well has an obligation to support them. And if it stops them trading viably after lockdown then that obligation continues.

    My daughter and her employees WANT to work. They don’t want to sit on furlough doing nothing. How ****ing hard is it to understand this? FFS!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279

    A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.

    All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.

    The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
    Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.

    My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325
    edited May 2020

    You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
    Cummings is a smokescreen, admittedly one that may resonate with some voters.

    Meanwhile back in the real world people are grateful that the subterfuge government has adopted to mitigate the Cummings effect has allowed them back on the beach in Bournemouth. That their children are back at school from Monday. That pubs and bars will soon be open. This will make them happy until the second wave locks them down again. The penny will then drop on the second wave that Boris opened England too early, the economy will fall further, the NHS will be consumed and more people will die unneccessarily. It will be at that point that the Conservative Party becomes unelectable.

    PB Tories say a second wave is impossible, they cite Switzerland! I say where is track and trace? What precautions have government set in place? I hope I am wrong.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2020

    This report on the Skye home makes depressing reading:

    https://commonweal.scot/policy-library/predictable-crisis
    I've not read it but don't judge a sector by a bad apple. People literally go into care to care for others, it's a noble motive.

    A bad school or bad teachers wouldn't make you condemn the entire education sector would it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    Cummings is a smokescreen, admittedly one that may resonate with some voters.

    Meanwhile back in the real world people are grateful that the subterfuge government has adopted to mitigate the Cummings effect has allowed them back on the beach in Bournemouth. That their children are back at school. That pubs and bars will soon be open. This will make them happy until the second wave locks them down again. The penny will then drop on the second wave that Boris opened England too early, the economy will fall further, the NHS will be consumed and more people will die unneccessarily. It will be at that point that the Conservative Party becomes unelectable.

    PB Tories say a second wave is impossible, they cite Switzerland! I say where is track and trace? What precautions have government set in place? I hope I am wrong.
    PB Tories say that?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    edited May 2020

    We've been doing that for weeks in Devon. "Distance dining" - one couple each end of the table. Scattered tables around the lawn for VE-Day tea and cake.

    Lowest Covid-19 in the country. Because we have taken personal responsibility for our lives and acted very sensibly.
    I think other factors are responsible for the low rate in the south west. Healthier population, low population density, older people less likely to have worked in heavy industry when they were younger, less pollution, etc.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Stocky said:

    Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.

    My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
    The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Pulpstar said:

    Both the left and right complain about the BBC. I think that means they're getting it right.
    Both the left and right complain about pineapple pizza fans. I think that means they're getting it right...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2020

    183 new deaths in England. Last 3 days, 28 / 64 / 24. Bit of backdating in there, but figures don't look that great overall. Looks rather same as last week type plateau.

    Better than I expected. Need to compare with Tuesday last week and remember there's been a 3 day weekend.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325
    RobD said:

    PB Tories say that?
    Scroll down.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,188
    Somewhat predictably Wings over Scotland has got nowhere with his appeal: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2020csih27.pdf?sfvrsn=0

    The main point of interest is that it was the first substantive Inner House appeal to be dealt with remotely.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Indeed. Also Emerson: 'When you strike the king, you must kill him.'

    'Cos if you don't...
    All these metaphors: regicide, assassination, feeding frenzy, getting their man, taking their scalp. This misses two points. First, news organizations report news, all the time, and "news" is ultimately defined as what their audience considers to be news, cos otherwise they would lose their readership. Blaming the press is like warmist dweebs campaigning against investment in BP while pretending not to realise that their consumption of BP's products keeps BP in business.

    Secondly, the story is that a conceited creep is more conceited, and much less clever, than appeared at first sight. The big swinging dick bloodshed metaphors lend it a dignity it just does not deserve.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    edited May 2020

    Scroll down.
    So one poster said that? I don't think all, or even a majority, of PB Tories subscribe to this view.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    Andy_JS said:
    Bet she receives less complaints than the Cummings must go petition has signatories
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
    And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,344

    You think private is a dirty word?
    When preceding parts and dancer, a lidl bit.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    edited May 2020

    Bet she receives less complaints than the Cummings must go petition has signatories
    Oh god, there's a petition? Cummings is surely on his way out now.

    :D
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2020
    We are soon going to be back the same old, same old no-deal vs extension...

    Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July

    https://order-order.com/2020/05/27/barnier-begs-opposition-parties-for-extension/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    We are soon going to be back the same old same old...

    Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July

    https://order-order.com/2020/05/27/barnier-begs-opposition-parties-for-extension/

    Does he know they are in opposition?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    You think private is a dirty word?
    Nonsense, Blackadder.

    Now, crevice is a dirty word...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    RobD said:

    Does he know they are in opposition?
    In other countries the EU would just abolish the government and install a technocrat.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,983
    edited May 2020
    Stocky said:

    Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.

    My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
    You're just being morbid. In my view the talk of economic Armageddon has been ludicrously over egged. My own employer, for example, has seen a perfectly reasonable turnover during the last couple of months, and they're rapidly getting people back from furlough. And this is not in an industry thought to be system critical to the human race.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
    No better time than the present.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2020

    You're just being morbid. In my view the talk of economic Armageddon has been ludicrously over egged. My own employer, for example, has seen a perfectly reasonable turnover during the last couple of months, and they're rapidly getting people back from furlough. And this is not in an industry thought to be system critical to the human race.
    I hope you are right. I fear not though. Even before covid-geddon, the world economy wasn't looking great. And the cost of doing business will only be increased by all the measures to be "Covid Secure". And that is before Brexit.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924

    Eventually, the bigger story of the Cummings episode is how fucked the BBC are going to be as a result of the way they have played it.

    Remember, Beeb: "dig two graves".....
    Thought you were against threats

    Didnt know you were a fan of N Korea
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    Cyclefree said:

    And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
    Oh get a grip.

    Brexit is drowned out by the changing landscape and screaming about it just simple ignores the fact that world has gone through a seismic shift and none of the assumptions people made two years ago hold up. Oil price on the floor. China US warming up daily, globalisation in reverse.

    The Brexit arguments are all dead, we are walking in to a new world and need to get our heads around it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325
    TOPPING said:

    I wasn't sure if your liking my post was ironic or not! :smile:

    But on the Boris fans then yes. It is very curious. Liking him, not supporting each other.

    I would have thought that it was transparently obvious that Boris is a self-serving, solipsistic, useless twat.

    But it appears that his fans on here are like those aged shoppers in Aldi who think he is a breath of fresh air.

    No irony!

    I love it when one of them states something like 'Kinnock and Ali broke lockdown, Starmer is a disgrace for not firing them. Cummings and Jenrick did nothing wrong, they followed all the rules' and the writer gets four likes from the usual suspects. Another writes the same old nonsense and he gets four likes from a different combination of the usual suspects too, and so it goes on.

    The similarities between the Soviet Union and PB Tories are uncanny.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103


    I've not read it but don't judge a sector by a bad apple. People literally go into care to care for others, it's a noble motive.

    A bad school or bad teachers wouldn't make you condemn the entire education sector would it?
    If it was in Scotland you can bet it would. You notice she has yet to produce anything on English care homes, this is just her hatred for anything SNP/Scottish.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    Christ alive, no wonder Weston-Super-Mare hospital had to close, testing on asymptotic staff came back with 40% have it.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012

    We are soon going to be back the same old, same old no-deal vs extension...

    Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July

    https://order-order.com/2020/05/27/barnier-begs-opposition-parties-for-extension/

    wtf is he doing that for.?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422


    I've not read it but don't judge a sector by a bad apple. People literally go into care to care for others, it's a noble motive.

    A bad school or bad teachers wouldn't make you condemn the entire education sector would it?
    No, but I'd criticise any government that failed in its duty of oversight.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,637
    Cyclefree said:

    The government has deliberately stopped businesses trading. So yes it bloody well has an obligation to support them. And if it stops them trading viably after lockdown then that obligation continues.

    My daughter and her employees WANT to work. They don’t want to sit on furlough doing nothing. How ****ing hard is it to understand this? FFS!
    For temporary restrictions, I think the furlough scheme is the best way forward. And the govt deserves a lot of credit for introducing this so swiftly.

    But if it's necessary for govt to bring in public health restrictions which make some businesses unviable longer-term, then it's very hard, but I think those businesses have to adapt/do something else.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,087

    We are soon going to be back the same old, same old no-deal vs extension...

    Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July

    https://order-order.com/2020/05/27/barnier-begs-opposition-parties-for-extension/

    Except now the Tories have a majority of 80 as opposed to last year when they had no majority at all there is little chance of further extension passing
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    RobD said:

    Nothing on Guido about it.
    What they supposed to say?

    "Massive Tory Maitless has 45 seconds of truth telling its a disgrace"!!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Conservative Parliamentary party discipline is completely breaking down:

    https://twitter.com/azeem/status/1265602498057908225?s=20
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Cyclefree said:

    The government has deliberately stopped businesses trading. So yes it bloody well has an obligation to support them. And if it stops them trading viably after lockdown then that obligation continues.

    My daughter and her employees WANT to work. They don’t want to sit on furlough doing nothing. How ****ing hard is it to understand this? FFS!
    I am not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out DavidL's "Level playing field" fallacy...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2020

    wtf is he doing that for.?
    I presume so that if / when we no-deal, opposition and the EU can lay it all on Boris, saying look we were reasonable and said there was always an extension available.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,325
    MaxPB said:

    In other countries the EU would just abolish the government and install a technocrat.
    Haven't we sort of half done that? We have an absent Prime Minister in hock to an unassailable technocrat.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    What they supposed to say?

    "Massive Tory Maitless has 45 seconds of truth telling its a disgrace"!!
    Just saying there's nothing about OFCOM complaints in Guido, so they must be from somewhere else.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103
    DavidL said:

    Somewhat predictably Wings over Scotland has got nowhere with his appeal: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2020csih27.pdf?sfvrsn=0

    The main point of interest is that it was the first substantive Inner House appeal to be dealt with remotely.

    David, will that make any difference to the cost.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree's second point, though - that if you keep such businesses closed for much longer, then you have effectively finished them - needs answering.
    Oh, I entirely agree with that one.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    IshmaelZ said:

    All these metaphors: regicide, assassination, feeding frenzy, getting their man, taking their scalp. This misses two points. First, news organizations report news, all the time, and "news" is ultimately defined as what their audience considers to be news, cos otherwise they would lose their readership. Blaming the press is like warmist dweebs campaigning against investment in BP while pretending not to realise that their consumption of BP's products keeps BP in business.

    Secondly, the story is that a conceited creep is more conceited, and much less clever, than appeared at first sight. The big swinging dick bloodshed metaphors lend it a dignity it just does not deserve.
    This entire episode is a trial of strength (oops, another metaphor!) to determine who wields the real power in Britain - the elected government, or the unelected media. quapropter res iam redit ad triarios.

    Colourful metaphors are indeed inadequate to express the magnitude of what is at stake.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Set your watches - 4pm:

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/8e8e5214-346d-4be8-adf7-addfc839ff6d

    Liaison Committee
    Wednesday 27 May 2020 Meeting starts at 4.00pm

    Subject: Coronavirus: the science, the impact, and the way ahead

    Witness: Boris Johnson, The Prime Minister
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    edited May 2020
    EU negotiator Frost and Gove up vs select committee on BBC Parly.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    edited May 2020
    A masterly dissection of Mr Cummings. Worth watching. No paywall

    https://www.ft.com/video/e82b5a00-3ad5-4d2c-9703-ff14942aa5b1
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Oh get a grip.

    Brexit is drowned out by the changing landscape and screaming about it just simple ignores the fact that world has gone through a seismic shift and none of the assumptions people made two years ago hold up. Oil price on the floor. China US warming up daily, globalisation in reverse.

    The Brexit arguments are all dead, we are walking in to a new world and need to get our heads around it.
    I’m not screaming about it. You are. I am simply pointing out what is very likely going to happen in just over 6 months. It will be the new world - the better world that supporters like you promised.

    If it isn’t it could cause additional economic harm on top of the economic harm caused by this virus. That is worth noting, even if you don’t like this being pointed out.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559
    HYUFD said:
    Pathetic witlessness provokes pathetic witlessness, Adam. You, of all people.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Except now the Tories have a majority of 80 as opposed to last year when they had no majority at all there is little chance of further extension passing
    The point is not that they can stop it, but it gives opposition / EU ability to say we were reasonable at all time, it was Kamikaze Boris taking us over the edge with No Deal i.e. what we have heard time and time again.

    We will soon be reading day in day out all about the horrors of potential no deal again, and how if we just agree to extend again everything could be fine.

    And given the lack of discipline over Cummings, will it hold if Boris / Cummings look like they are going to go No Deal.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559

    Thought you were against threats

    Didnt know you were a fan of N Korea
    I'm a fan of real politik.

    The Beeb have had decades of being insulated from it.

    No more.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Barry Sheerman berating Gove for EU negotiation updates not having a higher media profile.


    Well...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,755
    .

    Oh get a grip.

    Brexit is drowned out by the changing landscape and screaming about it just simple ignores the fact that world has gone through a seismic shift and none of the assumptions people made two years ago hold up. Oil price on the floor. China US warming up daily, globalisation in reverse.

    The Brexit arguments are all dead, we are walking in to a new world and need to get our heads around it.
    We are, but that doesn't make it irrelevant.
    Nissan's Sunderland factory, for example; it's going to survive, but what's in question is how much it might grow:

    http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13404464
    ...Under the new working relationship, Nissan could take the lead in Europe on crossover sport-utility vehicles (SUVs), while operating as a “follower” in commercial vans and small city cars, using versions produced by Renault, the sources said.

    Nissan’s factory in Sunderland in the United Kingdom is of particular importance, they said.

    Renault and Nissan are planning to turn the assembly plant into a hub for SUVs such as Nissan’s Qashqai and Juke, and potentially their Renault counterparts, the Kadjar and Captur. The companies are working on the plans, though it’s not clear when a final decision will be made, the sources said.

    Whether Renault vehicles could be built profitably at the plant is unclear, given the uncertainty over tariffs as Britain leaves the European Union, according to one of the sources.

    “It should be a pure economic transaction, but it’s also likely a political decision, too,” he said...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    Cyclefree said:

    I’m not screaming about it. You are. I am simply pointing out what is very likely going to happen in just over 6 months. It will be the new world - the better world that supporters like you promised.

    If it isn’t it could cause additional economic harm on top of the economic harm caused by this virus. That is worth noting, even if you don’t like this being pointed out.
    If I recall correctly I consistently argued Brexit wouldn't make that much difference and it would be something from left field which would have the biggest effect on the economy.

    QED
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2020
    He is a smart cookie, he knows normal people like a cheeky Nandos. Remember how call me Dave conveniently got photographed in one.

    Now, personally, I would never be seen dead in a place like that, but I am not trying to position myself to potentially be PM.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,087
    edited May 2020

    The point is not that they can stop it, but it gives opposition / EU ability to say we were reasonable at all time, it was Kamikaze Boris taking us over the edge with No Deal i.e. what we have heard time and time again.

    We will soon be reading day in day out all about the horrors of potential no deal again, and how if we just agree to extend again everything could be fine.

    And given the lack of discipline over Cummings, will it hold if Boris / Cummings look like they are going to go No Deal.
    Well it does make it easier for Labour, the LDs, Greens, Plaid and the SNP collectively to agree with the EU to take us back into the single market if combined they have a majority after the next general election true.

    However given the clear majority of Tory and Leave voters want WTO terms Brexit now and the Brexit Party is waiting in the wings if that is not delivered, that is what Tory MPs will vote for
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012
    HYUFD said:
    and he is on twitter. wtf does he think the loons with more opinions than brains are going to say?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:
    You got me excited for nothing. Our local one isn't one of the reopening ones.

    Not sure which I want to reopen first - Nando's or pubs. Come on hurry up!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405

    This entire episode is a trial of strength (oops, another metaphor!) to determine who wields the real power in Britain - the elected government, or the unelected media. quapropter res iam redit ad triarios.

    Colourful metaphors are indeed inadequate to express the magnitude of what is at stake.
    Not really. The press was doing what it is meant to do in a free society, holding the government to account and raising the concerns of the public. It's disturbing how some people on this forum have these kind of totalitarian tendencies. Perhaps Tories are simply unaccustomed to hostile press treatment and so lash out at it? After all, the monstering that the Daily Mail unleashed on Mr Cummings (wholely deservedly) was a pale immigration of the odure they rain down daily on whoever has the temerity to lead the Labour Party.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    IMO, they are falling into the trap of CNN / NYT / WP / MSNBC does with Trump. Their hatred of the man leads to them publishing inaccuracies and it gives Trump an out (but in Trump's case he can't help himself but to jump straight back into the shit). It is what Bad Al used to use all the time to get New Labour out of issues.

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1265635019420323845?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,755

    If I recall correctly I consistently argued Brexit wouldn't make that much difference and it would be something from left field which would have the biggest effect on the economy...
    Kudos for that.

    But did you really have to arrange all this just to prove your point ?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I've never been in a Nando's. Have I missed out?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    He is a smart cookie, he knows normal people like a cheeky Nandos. Remember how call me Dave conveniently got photographed in one.

    Now, personally, I would never be seen dead in a place like that, but I am not trying to position myself to potentially be PM.
    Nando's is my favourite branded restaurant. Much better chicken than KFC.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012

    I've never been in a Nando's. Have I missed out?

    no.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I've never been in a Nando's. Have I missed out?

    Yes.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,205
    Rishi is 40 so is the right age to have been eating Nando's when they stormed Britain around the turn of the century iirc. He is probably serious.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    no.

    Yes.
    Well that's conclusive.
This discussion has been closed.