Deep thought: People are talking like Kier Starmer not calling for Cummings to resign is a sign of cunning tactical genius, but maybe it means Kier Starmer knows that someone important on the Labour side broke the lockdown.
You are not the first person to suggest this on this forum.
Let us imagine the alternate history version of this crisis but with Seamus and Corbyn in charge.
morning of the story breaking Corbyn has demanded an emergency session of parliament to demand Dominic Cummings is sacked. We haven't had the Barnard Castle stuff revealed yet. Immediately every Tory MP rallies round the flag. This is a partisan hitjob. Twitter is filled with Right wing talking heads decrying the Labour party. The Barnard Castle stuff then comes out and is dismissed due to slight imperfections in the witnesses recollection of events. This is all over by Monday.
Starmer is following the Napoleonic maxim to perfection. Never interrupt an enemy making a mistake. Corbyn would be all over this like a cheap suit.
Also, Starmer has called for Cummnigs to be sacked - but only have a suitably long amount of time and in a low key way (saying he would have sacked him)
I think Starmer is handling it pretty well, but in danger of overdoing the restraint. In your alternate hgistory, I disagree. Corbyn would be ignoring Cummings (he virtually never attacks individuals, even the obvious ones) but demanding a special session to examine the impact of easing lockdown on low-paid workers. Cummings would get away with it for that reason, rather than that Corbyn was zeroing in on him.
Not that it matters now!
Starmer should focus on two things now:-
1. The lockdown easing measures and, in particular, whether they are being applied fairly. Or intelligently. See what I have already said about the absurdity of opening indoor shops before outside venues. Or allowing people to congregate in gardens but not go to a pub with a garden. Plus why the 2-metre advice (it’s not a rule) when most of Europe has it down to 1 metre.
2. Sunak’s plans to stop furlough, particularly the rumoured idea of asking businesses legally prevented from opening to pay 20% of wages and NI when they don’t have any income.
Completely agree with both points. Allowing outside venues for pubs and restaurants and meeting up under strict guidelines would make people far happier with continuing social distancing, and looks to be significantly safer than small indoor shops.
One sensible step might be a relaxation of licensing laws, that would allow an existing licensee to set up a temporary bar in a nearby park, field or car park, using a van, tent or market stall structure. Anyone who’s walked up the hill from Twickenham station to the stadium on a match day will know what I mean
My daughter has applied to vary her licence so that she can sell alcohol as an off licence and the authorities insisted that it can only be with food. Why? No good reason given.
It is absurd. The authorities are deliberately making it hard for such businesses to have a fighting chance to survive.
And to answer @Richard_Nabavi’s point: people who drink alcohol in their garden can get just as smashed as easily as in a pub. There is no logical or scientific rationale for allowing people to meet and drink in their gardens and not allowing them to meet and drink in a pub or restaurant garden. None.
Surely it is the shared toilet facilities that is the problem? The more people you have in one place, the more mixing there is going to be. In a garden you are at least limiting contacts to a single group.
There is definitely a difference.
Oh - do most people have separate ladies and men’s loos in their homes?
No. However, many private houses have more than one lav, and even if they dont (like mine, for example) people's toilets are not used by as many people as would be in a shared space like a pub or restaurant.
There are ways round this. Like hiring a Portaloo.
These just sound like excuses not to help a sector that will otherwise die and which employs a hell of a lot of jobs in areas which don’t have many alternatives.
Let’s not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
Mortimer is a nice chap, but he is a young fogey that really doesn't get the pub thing. At all.
He criticised me several times for contending that they are the backbone of Britain – core to our national heritage – and argued that they could be replaced by dinner parties.
So, I wouldn't waste your pixels on him on this particular debate.
He may have more to offer on other discussions.
Misrepresentation m'lud!
I didn't say they can be replaced with dinner parties. I said I wouldn't be going to pubs as much, and am looking forward to having more dinner parties.
Not sure I can deny the young fogey line - but I'd say in a usual time pre-Covid I probably spent nigh on £100/week in pubs - either lunch with the parents and a few rounds, or a working dinner or two whilst away. I'm aware how they work, just think you're being somewhat hyperbolic in suggesting they are the backbone of Britain....
Just an observation, but when the premier politics site in the UK has a picture of a moth getting more likes than any other comment, the Cummings story might just have run its course...
What is the purpose of Cummings moths? Other than just being ugly nuisances disliked by a lot of people?
Far bigger pollinators in the great scheme of things than a bee. Get a hard time from those like you - whilst doing all the hard graft in the darkness....
I thought Cummings's boss was a far bigger pollinator than ...... oh! You mean the moth!!!
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
They're going to be able to go out, meet friends, and have a drink in the sun in the near future.
That IS happiness in Britain.
We've been doing that for weeks in Devon. "Distance dining" - one couple each end of the table. Scattered tables around the lawn for VE-Day tea and cake.
Lowest Covid-19 in the country. Because we have taken personal responsibility for our lives and acted very sensibly.
If Ofcom start prosecuting journalists for repeating facts in the public domain then we can explain the disappearance of Kim Jong Un - he has dyed his hair blond and moved into Downing St
If the BBC decide to be totally independent I would be happy, then they can push any agenda they want to.
If you get your money via threats of imprisonment, then different standards apply.
I do not approve of the licence fee. I view it as legalised extortion.
183 new deaths in England. Last 3 days, 28 / 64 / 24. Bit of backdating in there, but figures don't look that great overall. Looks rather same as last week type plateau.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
I don't watch Newsnight (how could I watch anything with Lewis Goodall), but I've heard Emily Maitlis has been referred to Ofcom and could be in trouble. Something to do with last night's show.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to link us to the source of these disturbing things you keep hearing about. It makes a world of difference as to whether you have "just heard" it from closely connected to OFCOM or from Guido Fawkes.
Just an observation, but when the premier politics site in the UK has a picture of a moth getting more likes than any other comment, the Cummings story might just have run its course...
Running interference for "Dom" with your moths. No-one is fooled.
I started with the moths when we went into lockdown. You must at least concede that level of wargaming "running interference" is worthy of Dom himself?
Are these Tory moths though?. I think we should know.
You've already read moths are useful and productive - of course they are! ;-P
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
We'll just have to tax London harder.
London looks set to be the part of the country that suffers most anyway. Which I'm sure pleases you.
Just an observation, but when the premier politics site in the UK has a picture of a moth getting more likes than any other comment, the Cummings story might just have run its course...
Likes aren't really a thing on PB.
Oh I don't know? Boris fanboys seem to vote for each other like they were former Soviet States in a Eurovision Song Contest.
I wasn't sure if your liking my post was ironic or not!
But on the Boris fans then yes. It is very curious. Liking him, not supporting each other.
I would have thought that it was transparently obvious that Boris is a self-serving, solipsistic, useless twat.
But it appears that his fans on here are like those aged shoppers in Aldi who think he is a breath of fresh air.
Just an observation, but when the premier politics site in the UK has a picture of a moth getting more likes than any other comment, the Cummings story might just have run its course...
Running interference for "Dom" with your moths. No-one is fooled.
I started with the moths when we went into lockdown. You must at least concede that level of wargaming "running interference" is worthy of Dom himself?
Are these Tory moths though?. I think we should know.
You've already read moths are useful and productive - of course they are! ;-P
Apolitical. They aren't even awake when the polling stations are open!
I don't watch Newsnight (how could I watch anything with Lewis Goodall), but I've heard Emily Maitlis has been referred to Ofcom and could be in trouble. Something to do with last night's show.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to link us to the source of these disturbing things you keep hearing about. It makes a world of difference as to whether you have "just heard" it from closely connected to OFCOM or from Guido Fawkes.
People previously used excuses such as "but I thought I was an essential worker" and "the rules are too confusing for me"...although the best one being "I thought this beach was in England (when it was in Wales)"....yeah sure you did love...you totally missed the big signs saying "Welcome to Wales" and all of a sudden the road signs being in two languages.
By "relaxation" do you mean "abandonment of restrictions entirely" or do you mean "targeted partial relaxations in some areas while maximising social distancing"?
I am not aware of any country that has returned to normal, and I am not sure that is in the power of the state to do anyway.
However I did expect that relaxation would lead to a visible up-tick in infection rates (and that may be a worthwhile trade-off). The graphs that I have seen however appear to be heading downwards still.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
We'll just have to tax London harder.
London looks set to be the part of the country that suffers most anyway. Which I'm sure pleases you.
Actually it doesn't, there's no joy in watching any part of the country suffer.
With 8.4m employed (I use the term loosely) and 2m self-employed people on furlough, what do we think the post-Ascot private party-induced Covid spike will be?
With 8.4m employed (I use the term loosely) and 2m self-employed people on furlough, what do we think the post-Ascot private party-induced Covid spike will be?
Deep thought: People are talking like Kier Starmer not calling for Cummings to resign is a sign of cunning tactical genius, but maybe it means Kier Starmer knows that someone important on the Labour side broke the lockdown.
You are not the first person to suggest this on this forum.
Let us imagine the alternate history version of this crisis but with Seamus and Corbyn in charge.
morning of the story breaking Corbyn has demanded an emergency session of parliament to demand Dominic Cummings is sacked. We haven't had the Barnard Castle stuff revealed yet. Immediately every Tory MP rallies round the flag. This is a partisan hitjob. Twitter is filled with Right wing talking heads decrying the Labour party. The Barnard Castle stuff then comes out and is dismissed due to slight imperfections in the witnesses recollection of events. This is all over by Monday.
Starmer is following the Napoleonic maxim to perfection. Never interrupt an enemy making a mistake. Corbyn would be all over this like a cheap suit.
Also, Starmer has called for Cummnigs to be sacked - but only have a suitably long amount of time and in a low key way (saying he would have sacked him)
I think Starmer is handling it pretty well, but in danger of overdoing the restraint. In your alternate hgistory, I disagree. Corbyn would be ignoring Cummings (he virtually never attacks individuals, even the obvious ones) but demanding a special session to examine the impact of easing lockdown on low-paid workers. Cummings would get away with it for that reason, rather than that Corbyn was zeroing in on him.
Not that it matters now!
Starmer should focus on two things now:-
1. The lockdown easing measures and, in particular, whether they are being applied fairly. Or intelligently. See what I have already said about the absurdity of opening indoor shops before outside venues. Or allowing people to congregate in gardens but not go to a pub with a garden. Plus why the 2-metre advice (it’s not a rule) when most of Europe has it down to 1 metre.
2. Sunak’s plans to stop furlough, particularly the rumoured idea of asking businesses legally prevented from opening to pay 20% of wages and NI when they don’t have any income.
Completely agree with both points. Allowing outside venues for pubs and restaurants and meeting up under strict guidelines would make people far happier with continuing social distancing, and looks to be significantly safer than small indoor shops.
One sensible step might be a relaxation of licensing laws, that would allow an existing licensee to set up a temporary bar in a nearby park, field or car park, using a van, tent or market stall structure. Anyone who’s walked up the hill from Twickenham station to the stadium on a match day will know what I mean
My daughter has applied to vary her licence so that she can sell alcohol as an off licence and the authorities insisted that it can only be with food. Why? No good reason given.
It is absurd. The authorities are deliberately making it hard for such businesses to have a fighting chance to survive.
And to answer @Richard_Nabavi’s point: people who drink alcohol in their garden can get just as smashed as easily as in a pub. There is no logical or scientific rationale for allowing people to meet and drink in their gardens and not allowing them to meet and drink in a pub or restaurant garden. None.
Good luck to your daughter, hopefully she can eventually persuade the authorities to hear her case, if it looks like she’ll otherwise miss the summer season. Sadly, the hospitality industry is going to join aviation as the last industry back on its feet.
If we are not going to be allowed to loiter indoors, and it’s looking like a good summer, then surely the least we can do is allow a beer tent to set up in everyone’s local park?
Does it have to be hot food, make the cheapest possible cold or hot item possible and include it in price of the drinks.
It’s been a couple of decades since I last did a licensing law exam, and things have definitely changed in the meantime, but IIRC “food” used to mean “a substantial meal”, so a plate of chips doesn’t cut it without the burger.
It’s all bollocks though, they should drop a whole load of licensing laws for the summer and turn parks into beer gardens.
They seem to be largely blaming the company that runs it on my reading. It sounds hellish for residents and staff.
'Soon after a nationwide lockdown went into effect in March, a new deputy manager arrived from Kent, in southeastern England. HC-One has said she isolated before starting work. But that was before she made the 650-mile journey to the island, the employees and HC-One said. She eventually became sick and stopped working, the company said. Feeling unprotected by management, employees cleaned the home obsessively and enforced their own distancing rules. When residents were startled, as they often were, aides held their hands and stroked them. Sometimes employees broke down crying.
“People were petrified,” one of the employees said.
For HC-One, the nursing home business has been lucrative, as the company paid more than 50 million pounds, or nearly $61 million, in dividends from 2017 to 2019.'
'...HC-One warned that its “ability to continue as a going concern” was in jeopardy. But nursing home finances are difficult to trace. The HC-One group includes 62 companies, 19 of them registered offshore, and its parent company is based in the Cayman Islands. “It’s money before care all the time,” Ms. Harris said. “The staff they did have worked so hard, but they’ve been let down.”'
Usual Tory tax dodgers maximising profits at expense of people's granny, lies right at Boris's door.
Oversight of care homes is a devolved matter malc.
Are you making the case for more government interference in the running of honest, upstanding private businesses? Well done!
Are you making the case that Care Homes are honest upstanding private businesses?
Yes by and large.
Probably - but there have been several examples of absentee owners having an atrocious outbreak - Skye and Man spring to mind. In the latter one home accounted for 20 of the islands 24 cases. The Manx government shut it down. The Sandbank resident owners were miffed.
There are exceptions in any industry but I have to believe that anyone who goes into care does so because they care about it. Like teaching, nursing etc
Regarding absentee owners that can happen in any sector too. So long as they have passionate and good managers that should be fine. It's the managers who matter more most likely than the owners, besides owner/managers.
This report on the Skye home makes depressing reading:
By "relaxation" do you mean "abandonment of restrictions entirely" or do you mean "targeted partial relaxations in some areas while maximising social distancing"?
I am not aware of any country that has returned to normal, and I am not sure that is in the power of the state to do anyway.
However I did expect that relaxation would lead to a visible up-tick in infection rates (and that may be a worthwhile trade-off). The graphs that I have seen however appear to be heading downwards still.
That I find surprising. Do you not?
Possibly, apart from some care homes, it maybe that Covid has picked the low-hanging fruit in various populations - the mega-vulnerable that, in nature, are always the first to go. It really depends on how widespread this virus actually is as a percentage across the population. I am not sure that we know the answer to that yet.
Or it could simply be that it does not spread as easily as we think and "herd immunity" is achieved with a very low percentage.
By "relaxation" do you mean "abandonment of restrictions entirely" or do you mean "targeted partial relaxations in some areas while maximising social distancing"?
I am not aware of any country that has returned to normal, and I am not sure that is in the power of the state to do anyway.
However I did expect that relaxation would lead to a visible up-tick in infection rates (and that may be a worthwhile trade-off). The graphs that I have seen however appear to be heading downwards still.
That I find surprising. Do you not?
Possibly, apart from some care homes, it maybe that Covid has picked the low-hanging fruit in various populations - the mega-vulnerable that, in nature, are always the first to go. It really depends on how widespread this virus actually is as a percentage across the population. I am not sure that we know the answer to that yet.
There have been serology surveys showing it's not even at 10%, unfortunately.
Businesses do not have a right to trade nor does the government have an obligaiton to fund their trading. If they cannot sell their output for more than it costs to produce it they will go out of business.
In the case of cafes they can double their prices if everyone else is having to do the same, that is it is a level playing field. Why should we not pay £5 for a cappuccino , with or without chocolate, if that is what it costs?
Because people will not pay it. It is bad enough paying (say) Starbucks £3 for a coffee when, for a few pennies more, you can pop in to Tesco and buy a bag of Starbucks's coffee for £3.50
All that will happen is that all High Street coffee shops will close
For further info, I refer you to either the Scandinavians whose booze prices are so high (level playing field) that there is a black market in booze, our own tobacco industry where prices are so high there is a black market in fags and finally prohibition in the USA where moonshine sales replaced the legitimate market.
All level playing fields that the public work around.
The government has deliberately stopped businesses trading. So yes it bloody well has an obligation to support them. And if it stops them trading viably after lockdown then that obligation continues.
My daughter and her employees WANT to work. They don’t want to sit on furlough doing nothing. How ****ing hard is it to understand this? FFS!
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
Cummings is a smokescreen, admittedly one that may resonate with some voters.
Meanwhile back in the real world people are grateful that the subterfuge government has adopted to mitigate the Cummings effect has allowed them back on the beach in Bournemouth. That their children are back at school from Monday. That pubs and bars will soon be open. This will make them happy until the second wave locks them down again. The penny will then drop on the second wave that Boris opened England too early, the economy will fall further, the NHS will be consumed and more people will die unneccessarily. It will be at that point that the Conservative Party becomes unelectable.
PB Tories say a second wave is impossible, they cite Switzerland! I say where is track and trace? What precautions have government set in place? I hope I am wrong.
They seem to be largely blaming the company that runs it on my reading. It sounds hellish for residents and staff.
'Soon after a nationwide lockdown went into effect in March, a new deputy manager arrived from Kent, in southeastern England. HC-One has said she isolated before starting work. But that was before she made the 650-mile journey to the island, the employees and HC-One said. She eventually became sick and stopped working, the company said. Feeling unprotected by management, employees cleaned the home obsessively and enforced their own distancing rules. When residents were startled, as they often were, aides held their hands and stroked them. Sometimes employees broke down crying.
“People were petrified,” one of the employees said.
For HC-One, the nursing home business has been lucrative, as the company paid more than 50 million pounds, or nearly $61 million, in dividends from 2017 to 2019.'
'...HC-One warned that its “ability to continue as a going concern” was in jeopardy. But nursing home finances are difficult to trace. The HC-One group includes 62 companies, 19 of them registered offshore, and its parent company is based in the Cayman Islands. “It’s money before care all the time,” Ms. Harris said. “The staff they did have worked so hard, but they’ve been let down.”'
Usual Tory tax dodgers maximising profits at expense of people's granny, lies right at Boris's door.
Oversight of care homes is a devolved matter malc.
Are you making the case for more government interference in the running of honest, upstanding private businesses? Well done!
Are you making the case that Care Homes are honest upstanding private businesses?
Yes by and large.
Probably - but there have been several examples of absentee owners having an atrocious outbreak - Skye and Man spring to mind. In the latter one home accounted for 20 of the islands 24 cases. The Manx government shut it down. The Sandbank resident owners were miffed.
There are exceptions in any industry but I have to believe that anyone who goes into care does so because they care about it. Like teaching, nursing etc
Regarding absentee owners that can happen in any sector too. So long as they have passionate and good managers that should be fine. It's the managers who matter more most likely than the owners, besides owner/managers.
This report on the Skye home makes depressing reading:
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
Cummings is a smokescreen, admittedly one that may resonate with some voters.
Meanwhile back in the real world people are grateful that the subterfuge government has adopted to mitigate the Cummings effect has allowed them back on the beach in Bournemouth. That their children are back at school. That pubs and bars will soon be open. This will make them happy until the second wave locks them down again. The penny will then drop on the second wave that Boris opened England too early, the economy will fall further, the NHS will be consumed and more people will die unneccessarily. It will be at that point that the Conservative Party becomes unelectable.
PB Tories say a second wave is impossible, they cite Switzerland! I say where is track and trace? What precautions have government set in place? I hope I am wrong.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
They're going to be able to go out, meet friends, and have a drink in the sun in the near future.
That IS happiness in Britain.
We've been doing that for weeks in Devon. "Distance dining" - one couple each end of the table. Scattered tables around the lawn for VE-Day tea and cake.
Lowest Covid-19 in the country. Because we have taken personal responsibility for our lives and acted very sensibly.
I think other factors are responsible for the low rate in the south west. Healthier population, low population density, older people less likely to have worked in heavy industry when they were younger, less pollution, etc.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
183 new deaths in England. Last 3 days, 28 / 64 / 24. Bit of backdating in there, but figures don't look that great overall. Looks rather same as last week type plateau.
Better than I expected. Need to compare with Tuesday last week and remember there's been a 3 day weekend.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
Cummings is a smokescreen, admittedly one that may resonate with some voters.
Meanwhile back in the real world people are grateful that the subterfuge government has adopted to mitigate the Cummings effect has allowed them back on the beach in Bournemouth. That their children are back at school. That pubs and bars will soon be open. This will make them happy until the second wave locks them down again. The penny will then drop on the second wave that Boris opened England too early, the economy will fall further, the NHS will be consumed and more people will die unneccessarily. It will be at that point that the Conservative Party becomes unelectable.
PB Tories say a second wave is impossible, they cite Switzerland! I say where is track and trace? What precautions have government set in place? I hope I am wrong.
Eventually, the bigger story of the Cummings episode is how fucked the BBC are going to be as a result of the way they have played it.
Remember, Beeb: "dig two graves".....
Indeed. Also Emerson: 'When you strike the king, you must kill him.'
'Cos if you don't...
All these metaphors: regicide, assassination, feeding frenzy, getting their man, taking their scalp. This misses two points. First, news organizations report news, all the time, and "news" is ultimately defined as what their audience considers to be news, cos otherwise they would lose their readership. Blaming the press is like warmist dweebs campaigning against investment in BP while pretending not to realise that their consumption of BP's products keeps BP in business.
Secondly, the story is that a conceited creep is more conceited, and much less clever, than appeared at first sight. The big swinging dick bloodshed metaphors lend it a dignity it just does not deserve.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
Cummings is a smokescreen, admittedly one that may resonate with some voters.
Meanwhile back in the real world people are grateful that the subterfuge government has adopted to mitigate the Cummings effect has allowed them back on the beach in Bournemouth. That their children are back at school. That pubs and bars will soon be open. This will make them happy until the second wave locks them down again. The penny will then drop on the second wave that Boris opened England too early, the economy will fall further, the NHS will be consumed and more people will die unneccessarily. It will be at that point that the Conservative Party becomes unelectable.
PB Tories say a second wave is impossible, they cite Switzerland! I say where is track and trace? What precautions have government set in place? I hope I am wrong.
PB Tories say that?
Scroll down.
So one poster said that? I don't think all, or even a majority, of PB Tories subscribe to this view.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
Private care homes , word Private gives you a clue. Scottish Government having to bail out greedy Tories after they have made fortunes and then let the old grannies fend for themselves. Having to move SNHS staff in to support Tory robber Barons, would not have happened if we had not been a colony.
We are soon going to be back the same old, same old no-deal vs extension...
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
We are soon going to be back the same old same old...
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
Private care homes , word Private gives you a clue. Scottish Government having to bail out greedy Tories after they have made fortunes and then let the old grannies fend for themselves. Having to move SNHS staff in to support Tory robber Barons, would not have happened if we had not been a colony.
We are soon going to be back the same old same old...
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
You're just being morbid. In my view the talk of economic Armageddon has been ludicrously over egged. My own employer, for example, has seen a perfectly reasonable turnover during the last couple of months, and they're rapidly getting people back from furlough. And this is not in an industry thought to be system critical to the human race.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
You're just being morbid. In my view the talk of economic Armageddon has been ludicrously over egged. My own employer, for example, has seen a perfectly reasonable turnover during the last couple of months, and they're rapidly getting people back from furlough. And this is not in an industry thought to be system critical to the human race.
I hope you are right. I fear not though. Even before covid-geddon, the world economy wasn't looking great. And the cost of doing business will only be increased by all the measures to be "Covid Secure". And that is before Brexit.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
Oh get a grip.
Brexit is drowned out by the changing landscape and screaming about it just simple ignores the fact that world has gone through a seismic shift and none of the assumptions people made two years ago hold up. Oil price on the floor. China US warming up daily, globalisation in reverse.
The Brexit arguments are all dead, we are walking in to a new world and need to get our heads around it.
Just an observation, but when the premier politics site in the UK has a picture of a moth getting more likes than any other comment, the Cummings story might just have run its course...
Likes aren't really a thing on PB.
Oh I don't know? Boris fanboys seem to vote for each other like they were former Soviet States in a Eurovision Song Contest.
I wasn't sure if your liking my post was ironic or not!
But on the Boris fans then yes. It is very curious. Liking him, not supporting each other.
I would have thought that it was transparently obvious that Boris is a self-serving, solipsistic, useless twat.
But it appears that his fans on here are like those aged shoppers in Aldi who think he is a breath of fresh air.
No irony!
I love it when one of them states something like 'Kinnock and Ali broke lockdown, Starmer is a disgrace for not firing them. Cummings and Jenrick did nothing wrong, they followed all the rules' and the writer gets four likes from the usual suspects. Another writes the same old nonsense and he gets four likes from a different combination of the usual suspects too, and so it goes on.
The similarities between the Soviet Union and PB Tories are uncanny.
They seem to be largely blaming the company that runs it on my reading. It sounds hellish for residents and staff.
'Soon after a nationwide lockdown went into effect in March, a new deputy manager arrived from Kent, in southeastern England. HC-One has said she isolated before starting work. But that was before she made the 650-mile journey to the island, the employees and HC-One said. She eventually became sick and stopped working, the company said. Feeling unprotected by management, employees cleaned the home obsessively and enforced their own distancing rules. When residents were startled, as they often were, aides held their hands and stroked them. Sometimes employees broke down crying.
“People were petrified,” one of the employees said.
For HC-One, the nursing home business has been lucrative, as the company paid more than 50 million pounds, or nearly $61 million, in dividends from 2017 to 2019.'
'...HC-One warned that its “ability to continue as a going concern” was in jeopardy. But nursing home finances are difficult to trace. The HC-One group includes 62 companies, 19 of them registered offshore, and its parent company is based in the Cayman Islands. “It’s money before care all the time,” Ms. Harris said. “The staff they did have worked so hard, but they’ve been let down.”'
Usual Tory tax dodgers maximising profits at expense of people's granny, lies right at Boris's door.
Oversight of care homes is a devolved matter malc.
Are you making the case for more government interference in the running of honest, upstanding private businesses? Well done!
Are you making the case that Care Homes are honest upstanding private businesses?
Yes by and large.
Probably - but there have been several examples of absentee owners having an atrocious outbreak - Skye and Man spring to mind. In the latter one home accounted for 20 of the islands 24 cases. The Manx government shut it down. The Sandbank resident owners were miffed.
There are exceptions in any industry but I have to believe that anyone who goes into care does so because they care about it. Like teaching, nursing etc
Regarding absentee owners that can happen in any sector too. So long as they have passionate and good managers that should be fine. It's the managers who matter more most likely than the owners, besides owner/managers.
This report on the Skye home makes depressing reading:
I've not read it but don't judge a sector by a bad apple. People literally go into care to care for others, it's a noble motive.
A bad school or bad teachers wouldn't make you condemn the entire education sector would it?
If it was in Scotland you can bet it would. You notice she has yet to produce anything on English care homes, this is just her hatred for anything SNP/Scottish.
We are soon going to be back the same old, same old no-deal vs extension...
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
They seem to be largely blaming the company that runs it on my reading. It sounds hellish for residents and staff.
'Soon after a nationwide lockdown went into effect in March, a new deputy manager arrived from Kent, in southeastern England. HC-One has said she isolated before starting work. But that was before she made the 650-mile journey to the island, the employees and HC-One said. She eventually became sick and stopped working, the company said. Feeling unprotected by management, employees cleaned the home obsessively and enforced their own distancing rules. When residents were startled, as they often were, aides held their hands and stroked them. Sometimes employees broke down crying.
“People were petrified,” one of the employees said.
For HC-One, the nursing home business has been lucrative, as the company paid more than 50 million pounds, or nearly $61 million, in dividends from 2017 to 2019.'
'...HC-One warned that its “ability to continue as a going concern” was in jeopardy. But nursing home finances are difficult to trace. The HC-One group includes 62 companies, 19 of them registered offshore, and its parent company is based in the Cayman Islands. “It’s money before care all the time,” Ms. Harris said. “The staff they did have worked so hard, but they’ve been let down.”'
Usual Tory tax dodgers maximising profits at expense of people's granny, lies right at Boris's door.
Oversight of care homes is a devolved matter malc.
Are you making the case for more government interference in the running of honest, upstanding private businesses? Well done!
Are you making the case that Care Homes are honest upstanding private businesses?
Yes by and large.
Probably - but there have been several examples of absentee owners having an atrocious outbreak - Skye and Man spring to mind. In the latter one home accounted for 20 of the islands 24 cases. The Manx government shut it down. The Sandbank resident owners were miffed.
There are exceptions in any industry but I have to believe that anyone who goes into care does so because they care about it. Like teaching, nursing etc
Regarding absentee owners that can happen in any sector too. So long as they have passionate and good managers that should be fine. It's the managers who matter more most likely than the owners, besides owner/managers.
This report on the Skye home makes depressing reading:
Businesses do not have a right to trade nor does the government have an obligaiton to fund their trading. If they cannot sell their output for more than it costs to produce it they will go out of business.
In the case of cafes they can double their prices if everyone else is having to do the same, that is it is a level playing field. Why should we not pay £5 for a cappuccino , with or without chocolate, if that is what it costs?
Because people will not pay it. It is bad enough paying (say) Starbucks £3 for a coffee when, for a few pennies more, you can pop in to Tesco and buy a bag of Starbucks's coffee for £3.50
All that will happen is that all High Street coffee shops will close
For further info, I refer you to either the Scandinavians whose booze prices are so high (level playing field) that there is a black market in booze, our own tobacco industry where prices are so high there is a black market in fags and finally prohibition in the USA where moonshine sales replaced the legitimate market.
All level playing fields that the public work around.
The government has deliberately stopped businesses trading. So yes it bloody well has an obligation to support them. And if it stops them trading viably after lockdown then that obligation continues.
My daughter and her employees WANT to work. They don’t want to sit on furlough doing nothing. How ****ing hard is it to understand this? FFS!
For temporary restrictions, I think the furlough scheme is the best way forward. And the govt deserves a lot of credit for introducing this so swiftly.
But if it's necessary for govt to bring in public health restrictions which make some businesses unviable longer-term, then it's very hard, but I think those businesses have to adapt/do something else.
We are soon going to be back the same old, same old no-deal vs extension...
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
Except now the Tories have a majority of 80 as opposed to last year when they had no majority at all there is little chance of further extension passing
I don't watch Newsnight (how could I watch anything with Lewis Goodall), but I've heard Emily Maitlis has been referred to Ofcom and could be in trouble. Something to do with last night's show.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to link us to the source of these disturbing things you keep hearing about. It makes a world of difference as to whether you have "just heard" it from closely connected to OFCOM or from Guido Fawkes.
Nothing on Guido about it.
What they supposed to say?
"Massive Tory Maitless has 45 seconds of truth telling its a disgrace"!!
Businesses do not have a right to trade nor does the government have an obligaiton to fund their trading. If they cannot sell their output for more than it costs to produce it they will go out of business.
In the case of cafes they can double their prices if everyone else is having to do the same, that is it is a level playing field. Why should we not pay £5 for a cappuccino , with or without chocolate, if that is what it costs?
Because people will not pay it. It is bad enough paying (say) Starbucks £3 for a coffee when, for a few pennies more, you can pop in to Tesco and buy a bag of Starbucks's coffee for £3.50
All that will happen is that all High Street coffee shops will close
For further info, I refer you to either the Scandinavians whose booze prices are so high (level playing field) that there is a black market in booze, our own tobacco industry where prices are so high there is a black market in fags and finally prohibition in the USA where moonshine sales replaced the legitimate market.
All level playing fields that the public work around.
The government has deliberately stopped businesses trading. So yes it bloody well has an obligation to support them. And if it stops them trading viably after lockdown then that obligation continues.
My daughter and her employees WANT to work. They don’t want to sit on furlough doing nothing. How ****ing hard is it to understand this? FFS!
I am not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out DavidL's "Level playing field" fallacy...
We are soon going to be back the same old, same old no-deal vs extension...
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
I presume so that if / when we no-deal, opposition and the EU can lay it all on Boris, saying look we were reasonable and said there was always an extension available.
We are soon going to be back the same old same old...
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
I don't watch Newsnight (how could I watch anything with Lewis Goodall), but I've heard Emily Maitlis has been referred to Ofcom and could be in trouble. Something to do with last night's show.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to link us to the source of these disturbing things you keep hearing about. It makes a world of difference as to whether you have "just heard" it from closely connected to OFCOM or from Guido Fawkes.
Nothing on Guido about it.
What they supposed to say?
"Massive Tory Maitless has 45 seconds of truth telling its a disgrace"!!
Just saying there's nothing about OFCOM complaints in Guido, so they must be from somewhere else.
And to answer @Richard_Nabavi’s point: people who drink alcohol in their garden can get just as smashed as easily as in a pub. There is no logical or scientific rationale for allowing people to meet and drink in their gardens and not allowing them to meet and drink in a pub or restaurant garden. None.
It's not about getting smashed. Pub gardens are communal spaces. People behave differently than they do in their own gardens, the numbers would be greater, and the risk of infecting strangers is greater.
To be clear, I personally think the rules should be relaxed to allow this, as I think the risks are manageable and the benefit in economic and social terms is worth having. But it's silly not to recognise that there is a very valid argument on the other side.
Cyclefree's second point, though - that if you keep such businesses closed for much longer, then you have effectively finished them - needs answering.
Eventually, the bigger story of the Cummings episode is how fucked the BBC are going to be as a result of the way they have played it.
Remember, Beeb: "dig two graves".....
Indeed. Also Emerson: 'When you strike the king, you must kill him.'
'Cos if you don't...
All these metaphors: regicide, assassination, feeding frenzy, getting their man, taking their scalp. This misses two points. First, news organizations report news, all the time, and "news" is ultimately defined as what their audience considers to be news, cos otherwise they would lose their readership. Blaming the press is like warmist dweebs campaigning against investment in BP while pretending not to realise that their consumption of BP's products keeps BP in business.
Secondly, the story is that a conceited creep is more conceited, and much less clever, than appeared at first sight. The big swinging dick bloodshed metaphors lend it a dignity it just does not deserve.
This entire episode is a trial of strength (oops, another metaphor!) to determine who wields the real power in Britain - the elected government, or the unelected media. quapropter res iam redit ad triarios.
Colourful metaphors are indeed inadequate to express the magnitude of what is at stake.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
Oh get a grip.
Brexit is drowned out by the changing landscape and screaming about it just simple ignores the fact that world has gone through a seismic shift and none of the assumptions people made two years ago hold up. Oil price on the floor. China US warming up daily, globalisation in reverse.
The Brexit arguments are all dead, we are walking in to a new world and need to get our heads around it.
I’m not screaming about it. You are. I am simply pointing out what is very likely going to happen in just over 6 months. It will be the new world - the better world that supporters like you promised.
If it isn’t it could cause additional economic harm on top of the economic harm caused by this virus. That is worth noting, even if you don’t like this being pointed out.
We are soon going to be back the same old, same old no-deal vs extension...
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
Except now the Tories have a majority of 80 as opposed to last year when they had no majority at all there is little chance of further extension passing
The point is not that they can stop it, but it gives opposition / EU ability to say we were reasonable at all time, it was Kamikaze Boris taking us over the edge with No Deal i.e. what we have heard time and time again.
We will soon be reading day in day out all about the horrors of potential no deal again, and how if we just agree to extend again everything could be fine.
And given the lack of discipline over Cummings, will it hold if Boris / Cummings look like they are going to go No Deal.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
Oh get a grip.
Brexit is drowned out by the changing landscape and screaming about it just simple ignores the fact that world has gone through a seismic shift and none of the assumptions people made two years ago hold up. Oil price on the floor. China US warming up daily, globalisation in reverse.
The Brexit arguments are all dead, we are walking in to a new world and need to get our heads around it.
We are, but that doesn't make it irrelevant. Nissan's Sunderland factory, for example; it's going to survive, but what's in question is how much it might grow:
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13404464 ...Under the new working relationship, Nissan could take the lead in Europe on crossover sport-utility vehicles (SUVs), while operating as a “follower” in commercial vans and small city cars, using versions produced by Renault, the sources said.
Nissan’s factory in Sunderland in the United Kingdom is of particular importance, they said.
Renault and Nissan are planning to turn the assembly plant into a hub for SUVs such as Nissan’s Qashqai and Juke, and potentially their Renault counterparts, the Kadjar and Captur. The companies are working on the plans, though it’s not clear when a final decision will be made, the sources said.
Whether Renault vehicles could be built profitably at the plant is unclear, given the uncertainty over tariffs as Britain leaves the European Union, according to one of the sources.
“It should be a pure economic transaction, but it’s also likely a political decision, too,” he said...
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
Oh get a grip.
Brexit is drowned out by the changing landscape and screaming about it just simple ignores the fact that world has gone through a seismic shift and none of the assumptions people made two years ago hold up. Oil price on the floor. China US warming up daily, globalisation in reverse.
The Brexit arguments are all dead, we are walking in to a new world and need to get our heads around it.
I’m not screaming about it. You are. I am simply pointing out what is very likely going to happen in just over 6 months. It will be the new world - the better world that supporters like you promised.
If it isn’t it could cause additional economic harm on top of the economic harm caused by this virus. That is worth noting, even if you don’t like this being pointed out.
If I recall correctly I consistently argued Brexit wouldn't make that much difference and it would be something from left field which would have the biggest effect on the economy.
We are soon going to be back the same old, same old no-deal vs extension...
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
Except now the Tories have a majority of 80 as opposed to last year when they had no majority at all there is little chance of further extension passing
The point is not that they can stop it, but it gives opposition / EU ability to say we were reasonable at all time, it was Kamikaze Boris taking us over the edge with No Deal i.e. what we have heard time and time again.
We will soon be reading day in day out all about the horrors of potential no deal again, and how if we just agree to extend again everything could be fine.
And given the lack of discipline over Cummings, will it hold if Boris / Cummings look like they are going to go No Deal.
Well it does make it easier for Labour, the LDs, Greens, Plaid and the SNP collectively to agree with the EU to take us back into the single market if combined they have a majority after the next general election true.
However given the clear majority of Tory and Leave voters want WTO terms Brexit now and the Brexit Party is waiting in the wings if that is not delivered, that is what Tory MPs will vote for
Eventually, the bigger story of the Cummings episode is how fucked the BBC are going to be as a result of the way they have played it.
Remember, Beeb: "dig two graves".....
Indeed. Also Emerson: 'When you strike the king, you must kill him.'
'Cos if you don't...
All these metaphors: regicide, assassination, feeding frenzy, getting their man, taking their scalp. This misses two points. First, news organizations report news, all the time, and "news" is ultimately defined as what their audience considers to be news, cos otherwise they would lose their readership. Blaming the press is like warmist dweebs campaigning against investment in BP while pretending not to realise that their consumption of BP's products keeps BP in business.
Secondly, the story is that a conceited creep is more conceited, and much less clever, than appeared at first sight. The big swinging dick bloodshed metaphors lend it a dignity it just does not deserve.
This entire episode is a trial of strength (oops, another metaphor!) to determine who wields the real power in Britain - the elected government, or the unelected media. quapropter res iam redit ad triarios.
Colourful metaphors are indeed inadequate to express the magnitude of what is at stake.
Not really. The press was doing what it is meant to do in a free society, holding the government to account and raising the concerns of the public. It's disturbing how some people on this forum have these kind of totalitarian tendencies. Perhaps Tories are simply unaccustomed to hostile press treatment and so lash out at it? After all, the monstering that the Daily Mail unleashed on Mr Cummings (wholely deservedly) was a pale immigration of the odure they rain down daily on whoever has the temerity to lead the Labour Party.
IMO, they are falling into the trap of CNN / NYT / WP / MSNBC does with Trump. Their hatred of the man leads to them publishing inaccuracies and it gives Trump an out (but in Trump's case he can't help himself but to jump straight back into the shit). It is what Bad Al used to use all the time to get New Labour out of issues.
This seems an opportune moment to quote myself from the distant reaches of ... last night:
'The Mail polling looks like the nadir of this episode - from now on as we come out of lockdown there will be a correction as the red mist lifts and people see the reality of their lives improving.'
Rage is exhausting, and time brings perspective.
You think the reality of people's lives is going to start improving? Interesting take.
I bloody well hope so. You think otherwise?
A lot of them are going to find themselves on the dole, without generous financial support from the government. Many will find that the cuts in their wages they've already taken start to bite much more when they're commuting back to work.
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Oh sure - got all that - loads of economic losers - furlough has given a false sense of security - I thought you were making a more general observation.
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
The more general observation is that life is going to get worse in most tangible ways for many, perhaps most people. How much more general do you want me to be?
And that’s before the likely economic shock of a No Deal exit from the transition period next January ........
Oh get a grip.
Brexit is drowned out by the changing landscape and screaming about it just simple ignores the fact that world has gone through a seismic shift and none of the assumptions people made two years ago hold up. Oil price on the floor. China US warming up daily, globalisation in reverse.
The Brexit arguments are all dead, we are walking in to a new world and need to get our heads around it.
I’m not screaming about it. You are. I am simply pointing out what is very likely going to happen in just over 6 months. It will be the new world - the better world that supporters like you promised.
If it isn’t it could cause additional economic harm on top of the economic harm caused by this virus. That is worth noting, even if you don’t like this being pointed out.
If I recall correctly I consistently argued Brexit wouldn't make that much difference and it would be something from left field which would have the biggest effect on the economy...
Kudos for that.
But did you really have to arrange all this just to prove your point ?
Comments
I didn't say they can be replaced with dinner parties. I said I wouldn't be going to pubs as much, and am looking forward to having more dinner parties.
Not sure I can deny the young fogey line - but I'd say in a usual time pre-Covid I probably spent nigh on £100/week in pubs - either lunch with the parents and a few rounds, or a working dinner or two whilst away. I'm aware how they work, just think you're being somewhat hyperbolic in suggesting they are the backbone of Britain....
Sorry
All of us will find that pre-lockdown life does not return as it was before because shops, restaurants, pubs and cafes are permanently shut.
The Covid-19 holiday at home will be over and there will be bills to pay. The reality of a lot of people's lives is likely to get substantially worse from here on.
Lowest Covid-19 in the country. Because we have taken personal responsibility for our lives and acted very sensibly.
Two cheeks of the same arse.
But on the Boris fans then yes. It is very curious. Liking him, not supporting each other.
I would have thought that it was transparently obvious that Boris is a self-serving, solipsistic, useless twat.
But it appears that his fans on here are like those aged shoppers in Aldi who think he is a breath of fresh air.
1. that Cummings broke the rules
2. that Johnson displayed blind loyaLty to him.
She is obv reading an autocue, and the way she is reading suggests they are not her own words - imposs to tell without context.
'Cos if you don't...
However I did expect that relaxation would lead to a visible up-tick in infection rates (and that may be a worthwhile trade-off). The graphs that I have seen however appear to be heading downwards still.
That I find surprising. Do you not?
It’s all bollocks though, they should drop a whole load of licensing laws for the summer and turn parks into beer gardens.
https://commonweal.scot/policy-library/predictable-crisis
Or it could simply be that it does not spread as easily as we think and "herd immunity" is achieved with a very low percentage.
The government was already at daggers drawn with the BBC before this (Today boycotts etc). But that may prove to have been the phoney war.
My daughter and her employees WANT to work. They don’t want to sit on furlough doing nothing. How ****ing hard is it to understand this? FFS!
My concern is also with the younger generation. Is university worth it? Lack of job opportunities. Debt on the next generation (and probably generation after that). The reality hasn`t dawned yet for many. I was chatting to a friend yesterday, she asked "when do you think things will be back to normal again?". I think she was expecting me to say "by the Autumn" or something. I said "never".
Meanwhile back in the real world people are grateful that the subterfuge government has adopted to mitigate the Cummings effect has allowed them back on the beach in Bournemouth. That their children are back at school from Monday. That pubs and bars will soon be open. This will make them happy until the second wave locks them down again. The penny will then drop on the second wave that Boris opened England too early, the economy will fall further, the NHS will be consumed and more people will die unneccessarily. It will be at that point that the Conservative Party becomes unelectable.
PB Tories say a second wave is impossible, they cite Switzerland! I say where is track and trace? What precautions have government set in place? I hope I am wrong.
A bad school or bad teachers wouldn't make you condemn the entire education sector would it?
The main point of interest is that it was the first substantive Inner House appeal to be dealt with remotely.
Secondly, the story is that a conceited creep is more conceited, and much less clever, than appeared at first sight. The big swinging dick bloodshed metaphors lend it a dignity it just does not deserve.
Michel Barnier has written a letter replying to a group of SNP, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green, and Alliance Members of Parliament confirming that the EU is open to extending the transition period, although states that an extension must be agreed before 1 July
https://order-order.com/2020/05/27/barnier-begs-opposition-parties-for-extension/
Now, crevice is a dirty word...
Didnt know you were a fan of N Korea
Brexit is drowned out by the changing landscape and screaming about it just simple ignores the fact that world has gone through a seismic shift and none of the assumptions people made two years ago hold up. Oil price on the floor. China US warming up daily, globalisation in reverse.
The Brexit arguments are all dead, we are walking in to a new world and need to get our heads around it.
I love it when one of them states something like 'Kinnock and Ali broke lockdown, Starmer is a disgrace for not firing them. Cummings and Jenrick did nothing wrong, they followed all the rules' and the writer gets four likes from the usual suspects. Another writes the same old nonsense and he gets four likes from a different combination of the usual suspects too, and so it goes on.
The similarities between the Soviet Union and PB Tories are uncanny.
But if it's necessary for govt to bring in public health restrictions which make some businesses unviable longer-term, then it's very hard, but I think those businesses have to adapt/do something else.
"Massive Tory Maitless has 45 seconds of truth telling its a disgrace"!!
https://twitter.com/azeem/status/1265602498057908225?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1265626180310482944?s=20
Colourful metaphors are indeed inadequate to express the magnitude of what is at stake.
https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/8e8e5214-346d-4be8-adf7-addfc839ff6d
Liaison Committee
Wednesday 27 May 2020 Meeting starts at 4.00pm
Subject: Coronavirus: the science, the impact, and the way ahead
Witness: Boris Johnson, The Prime Minister
https://www.ft.com/video/e82b5a00-3ad5-4d2c-9703-ff14942aa5b1
If it isn’t it could cause additional economic harm on top of the economic harm caused by this virus. That is worth noting, even if you don’t like this being pointed out.
We will soon be reading day in day out all about the horrors of potential no deal again, and how if we just agree to extend again everything could be fine.
And given the lack of discipline over Cummings, will it hold if Boris / Cummings look like they are going to go No Deal.
The Beeb have had decades of being insulated from it.
No more.
Well...
Nissan's Sunderland factory, for example; it's going to survive, but what's in question is how much it might grow:
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13404464
...Under the new working relationship, Nissan could take the lead in Europe on crossover sport-utility vehicles (SUVs), while operating as a “follower” in commercial vans and small city cars, using versions produced by Renault, the sources said.
Nissan’s factory in Sunderland in the United Kingdom is of particular importance, they said.
Renault and Nissan are planning to turn the assembly plant into a hub for SUVs such as Nissan’s Qashqai and Juke, and potentially their Renault counterparts, the Kadjar and Captur. The companies are working on the plans, though it’s not clear when a final decision will be made, the sources said.
Whether Renault vehicles could be built profitably at the plant is unclear, given the uncertainty over tariffs as Britain leaves the European Union, according to one of the sources.
“It should be a pure economic transaction, but it’s also likely a political decision, too,” he said...
QED
Now, personally, I would never be seen dead in a place like that, but I am not trying to position myself to potentially be PM.
However given the clear majority of Tory and Leave voters want WTO terms Brexit now and the Brexit Party is waiting in the wings if that is not delivered, that is what Tory MPs will vote for
Not sure which I want to reopen first - Nando's or pubs. Come on hurry up!
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1265635019420323845?s=20
But did you really have to arrange all this just to prove your point ?