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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With the Cummings lockdown saga now in its seventh day some bi

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810

    I think you are right about alcohol being seen as a risk factor, although it's not just a British thing - in Paris they had to hurriedly introduce regulations to stop people drinking alcohol as they sat by the Seine.
    No, not just a Brit thing - the Finns really like to get stuck in apparently - but we do have that rep and it's not completely unwarranted. Pity, because on the list of things I'm looking forward to doing asap, getting well and truly lagered up in a pub beer garden is right at the top.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188

    Surely it is the shared toilet facilities that is the problem? The more people you have in one place, the more mixing there is going to be. In a garden you are at least limiting contacts to a single group.

    There is definitely a difference.
    Agreed.

    I know people are keen to get back to pubs (@Anabobazina) and want to do anything they can to help relatives (@Cyclefree), but the difference between gatherings at home and in a beer garden are pretty obvious.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Surely it is the shared toilet facilities that is the problem? The more people you have in one place, the more mixing there is going to be. In a garden you are at least limiting contacts to a single group.

    There is definitely a difference.
    There's risk to everything in life. Need to balance it and let people take chances. Supermarkets and public transport probably have more risk than toilets do on their own and outdoor drinking should have been opened at the same time as outdoor anything else. We should be liberating anything outdoors.

    Tell me why it's ok to have clothes shops open where people will (whether you tell them not to or not) be browsing indoors and touching the clothes ... But it's not ok to have a drink in the sunshine?

    This country doesn't get much sunshine as it is and this time that is being lost will not be regained.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792

    It is no honour for Churchill to be compared with that asswipe Trump!
    Nick Adams is clearly a first class twat. Comparing Trump to Churchill is even dafter (though not much) than comparing Johnson to the Great Man
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    Normal people don't talk like that. :D
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792

    I don't want to get into another argument over Cummings as I think I have spent enough time on that matter but I do want to criticise the governments handling of this now.

    It's too apologetic, too weak and too equivocal.

    I keep hearing people get asked if others should use their judgement and there's equivocation and it looks weak and dodgy. FFS there should be no question the answer should have always been yes! A clear, unequivocal yes.

    Stay at home is a guideline but of course there'll be exceptions. If your house is on fire then get out. There has to be a line drawn somewhere but that line is grey and will have grey cases either side.

    What's so difficult to say to people: "yes of course, use your common sense"?

    Either you accept people using their common sense - in which case that must apply to everyone - or you don't. This equivocation is weak.

    If you think that Dominic Cummings applied common sense, it is another piece of evidence you don't have much sense of the common variety, or any other.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,273

    Surely it is the shared toilet facilities that is the problem? The more people you have in one place, the more mixing there is going to be. In a garden you are at least limiting contacts to a single group.

    There is definitely a difference.
    Arrange a portaloo per x customers and encourage those who are willing to go in the bushes? Not what we are used to but dont see the big issue?
  • BantermanBanterman Posts: 287
    Late to this. The "kill off Cummings" campaign is clearly a get Boris next and stop Brexit plan. Media all coordinated to the last Friday launch, with follow up stories which are complete lies. Afterall, it happened weeks ago, the Guardian has been sitting on it for some time and they and the Mirror will both know that the Cummings child has issues, but they don't care about what they've unleashed.

    Boris knows this and will fight it all the way.

    Internet rumours are that David Frost is the next to get a coordinated media attack as he's doing too good a job on the EU negotiations. Who knows if thats true
  • First minister out betting. In reshuffles, most books use dead-heat rules but Starsports settle on the first one announced. Probably worth bearing in mind.

    Totally illogical, but presumably No.10 will still need to decide on an order ... alphabetically in terms of surnames?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,508
    Cyclefree said:



    My daughter has applied to vary her licence so that she can sell alcohol as an off licence and the authorities insisted that it can only be with food. Why? No good reason given.

    Couldn't she do what pubs used to do to get round the licensing hours? Just hand out a fruit pastille or a peanut or something token with each pint?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Cyclefree said:


    And to answer @Richard_Nabavi’s point: people who drink alcohol in their garden can get just as smashed as easily as in a pub. There is no logical or scientific rationale for allowing people to meet and drink in their gardens and not allowing them to meet and drink in a pub or restaurant garden. None.

    It's not about getting smashed. Pub gardens are communal spaces. People behave differently than they do in their own gardens, the numbers would be greater, and the risk of infecting strangers is greater.

    To be clear, I personally think the rules should be relaxed to allow this, as I think the risks are manageable and the benefit in economic and social terms is worth having. But it's silly not to recognise that there is a very valid argument on the other side.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    If you think that Dominic Cummings applied common sense, it is another piece of evidence you don't have much sense of the common variety, or any other.
    I've said what I've had to say on this matter. Unless there's something new to say why add more?

    If I was worried for my children I would do whatever it takes to see them safe. Unapologetically.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    Stocky said:

    Are you sure? I thought that the test identified the existence of pathogens rather than symptoms?
    If you have the virus but are asymptomatic you will most definitely NOT pass the test as "clear". You will be tested as positive. The test would be useless otherwise.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Alistair said:

    Move to the centre on social issues == be more transphobic

    No - it means being fair to trans people and women and finding a balance between the rights of each.
    Stocky said:

    That`s an excellent post Cyclefree. You say: "IMO guidance should be given. Guidance - it should not be a legal requirement". Personally, I`d go further and say that it should be made clear that employers cannot be held liable for virus infections which are a risk to us all.
    Absolutely agree. Anymore than they are not liable for cold infections or flue infections contracted by their visitors or staff.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,338
    Banterman said:

    Who knows if thats true

    I could hazard a guess.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279

    If you have the virus but are asymptomatic you will most definitely NOT pass the test as "clear". You will be tested as positive. The test would be useless otherwise.
    Thanks, that`s what I thought!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    edited May 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    No - it means being fair to trans people and women and finding a balance between the rights of each. Absolutely agree. Anymore than they are not liable for cold infections or flue infections contracted by their visitors or staff.
    Re: your second point: Obvious to you and me - liberals - but not obvious to many, particularly on the left. A compo culture will sprout up over this.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    edited May 2020

    That's madness. Utter madness.

    Shouldn't even need to apply. Should be automatic for everyone. Insanity and the government needs to do a better job on this.
    Does anyone in government have any understanding of the realities of small business life? Of margins and overheads and the very fine calculation needed every single day over every item of expenditure and every single product sold?

    @NickPalmer made a very good post the other day about how the relaxations were of venues which reflected the prosperous country background of those in government: Golf, tennis, parks and garden centres. There is something in that and it adds to the “us and them” flavour of this government and its approach.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Fishing said:

    Couldn't she do what pubs used to do to get round the licensing hours? Just hand out a fruit pastille or a peanut or something token with each pint?
    Licensing laws can be quite Draconian and enforcement quite arbitrary with punishment too. Why should she find a way around the law.

    If the law is broken it should be changed. This isn't good enough.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    TGOHF666 said:

    From this case I'm joining the dots as to why he doesn't like Sturgeon..
    How is it that the entire Yooniverse knows every detail about this highly libelous allegation about Sturgeon including exact dates of visits and precise locations but don't have anything like photos or videos or names?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    K-E-I-R


    K


    E


    I


    R
    It's spelled 'SIR KEIRA KNIGHTLY' , and yes, that is my copyright :smile:
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849
    Cyclefree said:

    My daughter has applied to vary her licence so that she can sell alcohol as an off licence and the authorities insisted that it can only be with food. Why? No good reason given.

    It is absurd. The authorities are deliberately making it hard for such businesses to have a fighting chance to survive.

    And to answer @Richard_Nabavi’s point: people who drink alcohol in their garden can get just as smashed as easily as in a pub. There is no logical or scientific rationale for allowing people to meet and drink in their gardens and not allowing them to meet and drink in a pub or restaurant garden. None.
    We can all now congregate outside. There is a widespread "ah fuck it" mentality which I'm sure is exactly what the government wanted. We have a long spell of warm and dry weather. So yes, lets have the pubs reopen their outdoor areas. No sitting / standing inside. Come in for the loo or to order but back out you go. Most beachfront places I go to in Spain operate like that literally removing inside tables half the time.

    Think about it. Pub beer garden. Sun. A pint. A dirty burger. Chat with actual physical friends instead of virtual ones. Utter utter bliss. With the weather this nice and the demand so pent up it gives the industry a fighting chance to get itself set up to survive on a sunny / outdoors only model with furlough covering the rest
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,273
    Banterman said:

    Late to this. The "kill off Cummings" campaign is clearly a get Boris next and stop Brexit plan. Media all coordinated to the last Friday launch, with follow up stories which are complete lies. Afterall, it happened weeks ago, the Guardian has been sitting on it for some time and they and the Mirror will both know that the Cummings child has issues, but they don't care about what they've unleashed.

    Boris knows this and will fight it all the way.

    Internet rumours are that David Frost is the next to get a coordinated media attack as he's doing too good a job on the EU negotiations. Who knows if thats true

    I do. Its not. HTH.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Surely it is the shared toilet facilities that is the problem? The more people you have in one place, the more mixing there is going to be. In a garden you are at least limiting contacts to a single group.

    There is definitely a difference.
    Oh - do most people have separate ladies and men’s loos in their homes?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    They both live in Cambridge.

    The classic anti metropolitan elite location.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Carnyx said:

    Hmm. I wondered if the logic lies in the need to track and trace, in the absence of a decent app. I'd remember who came to visit me at home, but wouldn't have a clue who was in the table next to me in the local pub, or even always what times I had been a week before. But if the t&t scheme was using things like credit/debit card data anyway, that difference isn't so strong.
    Pubs and restaurants will know who has booked tables on particular days and at what times. That provides pretty good information if needed.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,674

    I've said what I've had to say on this matter. Unless there's something new to say why add more?

    If I was worried for my children I would do whatever it takes to see them safe. Unapologetically.
    At the time of Dom's Durham Dalliance, it was:

    STAY HOME
    PROTECT THE NHS
    SAVE LIVES
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Carnyx said:

    Hmm. I wondered if the logic lies in the need to track and trace, in the absence of a decent app. I'd remember who came to visit me at home, but wouldn't have a clue who was in the table next to me in the local pub, or even always what times I had been a week before. But if the t&t scheme was using things like credit/debit card data anyway, that difference isn't so strong.
    I don’t believe there is any logic to any of this now.

    The pub trade’s best hope is to get Dominic Cummings to come to a pub for the sake of his eyesight or wife or because it’s the only place he can write his blogs or something.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Any cabinet ministers reversed the rule of law or admitted to a crime today.

    Or have they finally learnt to shut up and let me win my bet?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    ''does anyone in government have any understanding of the realities of small business life?''

    Clearly not, but they soon will when the economy completely fails to bounce back in the way they expect.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh - do most people have separate ladies and men’s loos in their homes?
    No. However, many private houses have more than one lav, and even if they dont (like mine, for example) people's toilets are not used by as many people as would be in a shared space like a pub or restaurant.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    edited May 2020
    Pro_Rata said:

    His stance on the equality agenda could be a key to his success. I'd like him to be strong on pride for Labours history in liberalising the right to be different and not be penalised for it, firm that he will advance equality by legislating where needed, but also be clear that that should be done in a way that genuinely advances human dignity and that his support will not be forthcoming for measures that do not meet that test - and there are aspects of transgender and other campaigns at the more militant end that do not meet that test. He should also be clear that equality is for everyone - where egregious injustices are done against men or the WWC they should be seen for what they are, and neither diminished nor overegged because of who they are done to. Equal treatment for all inequalities based on how bad they are.

    For those who think Kier needs a clause 4 type battle, this is where it probably lies and being tough on militancy and playing the tough on PC gone mad part whilst doing lots on equality is something that could very much suit him personally.
    There is a line to walk. Strong on equality but do not fetishize it. Respect public opinion but do not pander to it. Be woke but not "woke" (if I can put it like that). But this is waffle really. It comes down to specifics. That's the test of where people really are on this. Everyone supports the notion of equality under the law.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746
    Brom said:

    Not sure what you you're looking at but the 2 biggest articles 'Tory Civil War' and about 'Emily Maitilis' certainly are not anti Cummings comment wise. Perhaps you had not looked at top rated comments.
    Taken from the latest article “Boris Johnson Faces a Grilling Today...” which is more recent than the two you cite -


  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849
    Banterman said:

    Late to this. The "kill off Cummings" campaign is clearly a get Boris next and stop Brexit plan. Media all coordinated to the last Friday launch, with follow up stories which are complete lies. Afterall, it happened weeks ago, the Guardian has been sitting on it for some time and they and the Mirror will both know that the Cummings child has issues, but they don't care about what they've unleashed.

    Boris knows this and will fight it all the way.

    Internet rumours are that David Frost is the next to get a coordinated media attack as he's doing too good a job on the EU negotiations. Who knows if thats true

    Yes, Good. Except that (a) Brexit is in the past. You can't stop something thats already happened, (b) some of the leading voices are those most pro-Brexit - Hartley-Brewer, Baker, the Mail, the Telegraph, and (c) Boris "fighting this all the way" is the story, not what Cummings did.

    The government had an easy out. Dom - "I'm sorry that I broke the rules. I acted on instinct out of panic and fear for my child. I will voluntarily speak to Durham Police and accept any sanction they impose. Its important that the government aren't seen to be above the rules, we all know how critical these rules are, I got it wrong, I'm sorry". Followed by smoke blown up his arse by the Mail and the Sun. He'd still be in a job, the calls for his resignation would be "he's submitted himself to the law don't judge the man", he disappears into the undergrowth, the story moves on.

    Simple. Except that Dom can't say sorry. Its not in his nature. And Johnson cannot bear to be without him for some reason. And so we have this circus.

    Its not about Brexit. Its not about conspiracy. Its about hypocrisy and arrogance combined with incompetence.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Mortimer said:

    No. However, many private houses have more than one lav, and even if they dont (like mine, for example) people's toilets are not used by as many people as would be in a shared space like a pub or restaurant.
    There are ways round this. Like hiring a Portaloo.

    These just sound like excuses not to help a sector that will otherwise die and which employs a hell of a lot of jobs in areas which don’t have many alternatives.

    Let’s not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:
    So even the New Statesman's given up? Sad.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DougSeal said:

    Taken from the latest article “Boris Johnson Faces a Grilling Today...” which is more recent than the two you cite -


    You didn't bother reading the second comment in that snapshot, did you? :lol:
  • This is the biggest PR blunder and destruction of popularity disaster since the poll tax
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,508

    Licensing laws can be quite Draconian and enforcement quite arbitrary with punishment too. Why should she find a way around the law.

    If the law is broken it should be changed. This isn't good enough.
    I agree, but "should" and "will" are two different things.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Cyclefree said:

    There are ways round this. Like hiring a Portaloo.

    These just sound like excuses not to help a sector that will otherwise die and which employs a hell of a lot of jobs in areas which don’t have many alternatives.

    Let’s not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
    Mortimer is a nice chap, but he is a young fogey that really doesn't get the pub thing. At all.

    He criticised me several times for contending that they are the backbone of Britain – core to our national heritage – and argued that they could be replaced by dinner parties.

    So, I wouldn't waste your pixels on him on this particular debate.

    He may have more to offer on other discussions.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548
    Cummings won Brexit partly on use of social media. Now he is a laughing stock on it.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    You didn't bother reading the second comment in that snapshot, did you? :lol:
    Jesus wept...you didn't bother reading Brom's post that said the comments are "very positive" when the top rated posts are not? Work harder on your troll skills and please stop winking at me.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:
    The more relevant quote - as attributed to Benjamin Jowett - is 'Never retreat! Never explain! Get it done, and let them howl!'

    Wonderful to see Boris following the Master's dictum.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548
    Scott_xP said:
    We know he's satisfied.

    It's just none of the rest of us are.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849
    We don't need to debate whether the story has cut through or what people think. The coverage is still wall to wall, still largely negative and the polling backs it up where even Tory voters conclude he lied repeatedly. Hence the Tory MPs now wanting shut of him in growing numbers.

    He isn't going anywhere. Dom doesn't quit. Dom can't be sacked. A massive dead cat effort is needed, perhaps Tory activists need to wheel out more infographics about the real story here, namely that Diane Abbott is stupid.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,552
    Beaches in Devon rammed with socially distancing family groups. Weather is sublime. Ice cream vans out, socially distancing queues.

    No doubt many people quietly thanking Dom Cummings for allowing them to go out in the sunshine - and not have to worry about being sacked by Boris....
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DougSeal said:

    Jesus wept...you didn't bother reading Brom's post that said the comments are "very positive" when the top rated posts are not? Work harder on your troll skills and please stop winking at me.
    That's a laugh, not a wink, you dummy. And the second-highest-rated comment - which you so ineptly included in your snapshot - torpedoes your own case!
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,591

    The more relevant quote - as attributed to Benjamin Jowett - is 'Never retreat! Never explain! Get it done, and let them howl!'

    Wonderful to see Boris following the Master's dictum.
    "I am Master of this college.
    What I don't know isn't knowledge."
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,192
    HMG is publishing lots of docs today. Old science reports, future VAT notices, something about MOTs. Not quite a dead cat (those initials again!) so much as lots of kittens to distract reporters.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,273

    Beaches in Devon rammed with socially distancing family groups. Weather is sublime. Ice cream vans out, socially distancing queues.

    No doubt many people quietly thanking Dom Cummings for allowing them to go out in the sunshine - and not have to worry about being sacked by Boris....

    Whatever happened to STAY HOME messaging. Not seen since last Friday, I wonder why.....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Cummings won Brexit partly on use of social media. Now he is a laughing stock on it.

    Governments have always been laughed at, they always will be laughed at. It's not healthy if we can't laugh at people.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,132

    Whatever happened to STAY HOME messaging. Not seen since last Friday, I wonder why.....

    Still being broadcast on radio
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,273
    Scott_xP said:

    Still being broadcast on radio
    By a minister?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,360

    The more relevant quote - as attributed to Benjamin Jowett - is 'Never retreat! Never explain! Get it done, and let them howl!'

    Wonderful to see Boris following the Master's dictum.
    The trouble is that Dom did try to explain. That explanation made things worse, because the view of the people is that it was, in some important places, a stupid explanation.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    On pubs - I can get cheaper booze from the supermarket and better food from a restaurant or my own kitchen. Yet I still find myself in the pub with friends a few times a week. Odd.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,132

    By a minister?

    It's the government ad. I don't believe the voice is a serving minister, no.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012

    This is the biggest PR blunder and destruction of popularity disaster since the poll tax

    You have forgotten Jeremy Corbyn, everything he did was a disaster
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    The trouble is that Dom did try to explain. That explanation made things worse, because the view of the people is that it was, in some important places, a stupid explanation.
    Only some?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792

    Cummings won Brexit partly on use of social media. Now he is a laughing stock on it.

    I am not really sure he did. He is credited as such, and no doubt it is POSSIBLE he may have influenced, though by no means certain. I think the reason was more to do with years of disinformation form the mainstream press.

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but if you dig into Cummings background even in a perfunctory way, you can see he is rather like many people who have become famous on the new media platforms - very good at what he does, because he tells us he is! Famous for being famous. He actually has very little actual substance - rather like his boss and the lightweight acolytes. He has no media background like the people that have carried out his function in the past, and as far as I can see no corporate training or qualifications in PR or communications. He is a super-SPAD and no more than that. Johnson has been suckered into believing he is good because "Dom" tells him it is so.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101

    Scottish Care Homes COVID has made the NYT - with Johnson getting the blame.....

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/25/world/europe/coronavirus-uk-nursing-homes.html

    Yes and so he should
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    malcolmg said:

    Yes and so he should
    Isn't health a devolved matter?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,035

    The right to bear arms, eh? What this country really needs is overweight incels with assault rifles turning up at places of government.

    I remember a 'classical liberal' that used to post on here who claimed that UK gun laws actually made us more unsafe than the USA and got very excited at the idea of 3D printed guns. He certainly added to the entertainment value of the place.
    You only have to look at one of those groups of anti-lockdown knuckle-draggers to realise that allowing them to have guns is really not the smartest idea in the world.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012
    malcolmg said:

    Yes and so he should
    Yes the sainted Nicola is completely blameless.. I should think she has been far too busy worrying about what Alex is going to say.. squeaky bum time...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101
    Fishing said:

    I see Madeira is offering tourists tests on arrival. Why don't we do that, instead of quarantine?

    Vienna has been doing for a while , 200 Euro and takes couple of hours, if you don't want to pay 14 days quarantine
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    We can all now congregate outside. There is a widespread "ah fuck it" mentality which I'm sure is exactly what the government wanted. We have a long spell of warm and dry weather. So yes, lets have the pubs reopen their outdoor areas. No sitting / standing inside. Come in for the loo or to order but back out you go. Most beachfront places I go to in Spain operate like that literally removing inside tables half the time.

    Think about it. Pub beer garden. Sun. A pint. A dirty burger. Chat with actual physical friends instead of virtual ones. Utter utter bliss. With the weather this nice and the demand so pent up it gives the industry a fighting chance to get itself set up to survive on a sunny / outdoors only model with furlough covering the rest
    Just been out for a coffe and sandwich overlooking the marina a lot of locals out chatting 2 m apart tables wiped down and alcohol washed between each customer. It’s only metal table and chairs that need it. All perfectly civilized insides may open next week at 50% capacity, table service only and 2m apart. The only rule being broken is that people are not sticking to the one table one household rule which may have been relaxed already.
    The UK problems is will some sectors of society play by the rules or turn it into a free for all.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792

    You have forgotten Jeremy Corbyn, everything he did was a disaster
    Except in the eyes of the faithful. Very similar in fact, to the self deluded supporters of Cummings
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,508

    Regarding licencing there's been blanket changes to licencing laws in the past. Eg to permit trade outside of usual hours during the Japanese World Cup IIRC.

    There should be a blanket change to permit off trade. As well as a blanket change in lockdown to permit outdoors trade. It simply isn't good enough to ignore these issues. Companies that rely on the summer won't survive this year if they lose all of the summer and there's no need to lose all of it.

    Just end lockdown. The NHS isn't going to collapse.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,481
    Mr. Max, pub landlord won't nag you to put the bins out ;)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,338
    edited May 2020
    He's not the Antichrist, just a very naughty boy.

    https://twitter.com/RossMcCaff/status/1265602091378192387?s=20

    Lol, the twitter bio from one of the people defending DC in the replies.

    'Rangers ... so much more than a club.'
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Fishing said:

    Just end lockdown. The NHS isn't going to collapse.
    Not without control that would be irresponsible.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,360
    RobD said:

    Only some?
    The trip up to Durham in the first place - there are wrinkles that don't quite hang right, and he shouldn't have done it, but just about forgiveable.

    The "family day out to test my eyes" is the bit that's cutting through most (e.g. today's Star) because of it's four-year-old-with-hand-in-the-cookie-jar absurdity.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    MaxPB said:

    On pubs - I can get cheaper booze from the supermarket and better food from a restaurant or my own kitchen. Yet I still find myself in the pub with friends a few times a week. Odd.

    An extraordinary phenomenon! 😀
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101
    Sandpit said:

    Good luck to your daughter, hopefully she can eventually persuade the authorities to hear her case, if it looks like she’ll otherwise miss the summer season. Sadly, the hospitality industry is going to join aviation as the last industry back on its feet.

    If we are not going to be allowed to loiter indoors, and it’s looking like a good summer, then surely the least we can do is allow a beer tent to set up in everyone’s local park?
    Does it have to be hot food, make the cheapest possible cold or hot item possible and include it in price of the drinks.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810

    I disagree. The point about the emotional side of Labour activists is very important. The passion, moralising and certainty that drives many to join Labour to bring about change, is a turn off for many voters, even if they quite like some or many of the policies.

    Hating the Tories and showing it with passion is a pathetic position for a major party in a mostly 2 party country.

    I dislike the PM and this govt very much, but I couldnt dream of hating someone just because they voted for it. And even if I could I would know with certainty it isnt a good way to convince them to change their minds.

    Radical policies are needed for the country, the coming decade is not going to be bland because of the rate of technical change and international turbulence. They will be needed whoever is in power.
    The important thing is that the policies are based on core Labour values and the biggest of these is the redistribution of wealth and power in favour of those who have little of either. That should be radical enough for anybody.

    Activists are a different breed. You need passion to put in the time and people are more likely to feel passionate about a policy platform they feel will really change the country rather than tinkering around within narrow centrist parameters.

    Does the passion of some Labour activists spill over into hating the Tories? You bet it does. Not great. But I'm not sure how it can ever be much different. Parties need activists and when you're very strongly for one side it tends to mean you are very anti the other. It works both ways. Look at some of the more strident PB Tories. They hate Labour and 'hate' is the word.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    MaxPB said:

    On pubs - I can get cheaper booze from the supermarket and better food from a restaurant or my own kitchen. Yet I still find myself in the pub with friends a few times a week. Odd.

    Depends if you like real ale and are fortunate to have a pub that is recognised by CAMRA. No botted beer (though they can be very good) will equal a well maintained pint from a good publican
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Fishing said:

    Just end lockdown. The NHS isn't going to collapse.
    Plenty of pubs serving take away beer - one beside a park near me is doing a roaring trade.

    End the mad ban on pubs doing stuff.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,132
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Fishing said:

    Just end lockdown. The NHS isn't going to collapse.
    But the economy is.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,035

    "I’d been feeling ropey for two weeks when I went into hospital on 2 April, ever since I’d come back up to Manchester from Westminster."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/coronavirus-i-feel-a-tremendous-sense-of-humility-mp-tony-lloyd-on-how-nhs-saved-his-life

    He came down with symptoms after returning to Manchester, before the general lockdown was imposed and was not expecting to fall ill, unlike Cummings, or already ill.

    Pathetic attempt at a smear.
    Smearing a man who was very ill - just look at the names of those posting it and desperately trying to promote it. Tells you all you need to know.

    Same type of people that were trying to ramp up the Dorries doctored-video smear against Starmer. It only stopped when she had to delete it and scarper with her tail between her legs.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,481
    Mr. T, some of those so incensed by that were content to cheer on the doctored content about Boris Johnson claiming we should take the virus on the chin, when he'd said the exact opposite.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101

    They seem to be largely blaming the company that runs it on my reading. It sounds hellish for residents and staff.

    'Soon after a nationwide lockdown went into effect in March, a new deputy manager arrived from Kent, in southeastern England. HC-One has said she isolated before starting work. But that was before she made the 650-mile journey to the island, the employees and HC-One said. She eventually became sick and stopped working, the company said.
    Feeling unprotected by management, employees cleaned the home obsessively and enforced their own distancing rules. When residents were startled, as they often were, aides held their hands and stroked them. Sometimes employees broke down crying.

    “People were petrified,” one of the employees said.

    For HC-One, the nursing home business has been lucrative, as the company paid more than 50 million pounds, or nearly $61 million, in dividends from 2017 to 2019.'

    '...HC-One warned that its “ability to continue as a going concern” was in jeopardy.
    But nursing home finances are difficult to trace. The HC-One group includes 62 companies, 19 of them registered offshore, and its parent company is based in the Cayman Islands.
    “It’s money before care all the time,” Ms. Harris said. “The staff they did have worked so hard, but they’ve been let down.”'
    Usual Tory tax dodgers maximising profits at expense of people's granny, lies right at Boris's door.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317

    You have forgotten Jeremy Corbyn, everything he did was a disaster
    Corbyn was hoovered up and put out with the rubbish, Boris still sits pride of place on the mantlepiece.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,192

    Totally illogical, but presumably No.10 will still need to decide on an order ... alphabetically in terms of surnames?
    You'd need to check the memoirs. Given some ministers might decline proposed moves, maybe PMs start at the top and work down.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    kinabalu said:

    The important thing is that the policies are based on core Labour values and the biggest of these is the redistribution of wealth and power in favour of those who have little of either. That should be radical enough for anybody.

    Activists are a different breed. You need passion to put in the time and people are more likely to feel passionate about a policy platform they feel will really change the country rather than tinkering around within narrow centrist parameters.

    Does the passion of some Labour activists spill over into hating the Tories? You bet it does. Not great. But I'm not sure how it can ever be much different. Parties need activists and when you're very strongly for one side it tends to mean you are very anti the other. It works both ways. Look at some of the more strident PB Tories. They hate Labour and 'hate' is the word.
    My experience of the Tory version of activists is that a very large proportion are weirdos. Obsessed by politics to the exclusion of everything else. Unfortunately for both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party the more sane centrists have had enough and realised there are better things to do than stuff envelopes. The dregs have therefore become more concentrated, and unrepresentative. The most stupid thing our parties did was to remove the election of leaders from MPs (who are properly representative of all shades) and put it in the hands of said dregs. This is what has led to the appointment of Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson as the two main leaders at the last election. A choice between a political version of dumb and dumber.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    malcolmg said:

    Usual Tory tax dodgers maximising profits at expense of people's granny, lies right at Boris's door.
    Oversight of care homes is a devolved matter malc.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101
    Banterman said:

    Late to this. The "kill off Cummings" campaign is clearly a get Boris next and stop Brexit plan. Media all coordinated to the last Friday launch, with follow up stories which are complete lies. Afterall, it happened weeks ago, the Guardian has been sitting on it for some time and they and the Mirror will both know that the Cummings child has issues, but they don't care about what they've unleashed.

    Boris knows this and will fight it all the way.

    Internet rumours are that David Frost is the next to get a coordinated media attack as he's doing too good a job on the EU negotiations. Who knows if thats true

    LOL, that would be a first though it is impossible to do any worse than previous debacles. As long as he has not given away everything it will be an improvement.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317
    Scott_xP said:
    Extenuating circumstances? They were introduced retrospectively on Sunday.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,338
    Christ, they're all at it. Either the marketplace of right wing, grifter ideas is getting seriously overcrowded or there's an inexhaustible appetite for this pish. Depressingly it may be the latter.

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1264637541401202689?s=20
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,528

    You have forgotten Jeremy Corbyn, everything he did was a disaster
    It was and your point is?
This discussion has been closed.